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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I mentioned this in my roundup of workwear from the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale, but it's too good not to feature here as well — I love the sleek, fitted cut, the lovely small chevron pattern, and the peplum details. The sale is kind of great, too — this is usually the price I see when this kind of blazer is marked down once it's several seasons old, not new fall merchandise. It's currently $599, but after the sale it'll go back up to $1095. It's available in sizes 6-16. Armani Collezioni Chevron Jersey Blazer
A more affordable version ($365) is here, or here's a MUCH more affordable version ($39); there are also a ton of lucky sizes over at The Real Real in major brands (Akris, Rachel Zoe, Prada) for $95-$125. Here's a plus size version in lucky sizes, and here's a lighter lavender for $54 in regular, petites, plus sizes, and plus size petites.
Update: Unfortunately the pictured blazer seems to be almost entirely sold out (sizes keep appearing and disappearing when I check) — a good reminder that there are limited quantities at the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale! Here's a similar blazer at Neiman Marcus on clearance for $488.
Update2: In totally unrelated news, Amazon's deal of the day is Shaun T's INSANITY MAX:30 Base Kit – DVD Workout for $54 (down from $140) — ladies, care to discuss Insanity vs. P90x vs. other DVD programs you love? I wasn't a huge fan of the old school P90X, but understand they have a newer one out — I've never done Insanity but just bought the DVDs.
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
A.Nonymous
This is gorgeous!
T/J: I seem to have misplaced a favorite necklace/earrings. I’ve looked seemingly everywhere. I don’t think I lost them because I would have noticed that when it happened but my life has been so harried the last few months that it seems likely I took them off and didn’t put them in one of the places I usually would. Here’s the question – the only variable is that in the time between when I last remember wearing them and when I noticed they were gone I had a handy service person come clean. She was very nice, I was home the whole time and I really don’t think that she took them, but do y’all think this is something worth asking about? On the one hand, it seems they screen their candidates and this young woman was very pleasant and even left me her phone number if I ever wanted to hire her outside of the service and there were certainly better things for her to take; on the other, if she did take it, it’s probably because I would have left these on top of a dresser without having put them away and it would have been easy enough to just pocket. But I don’t want to accuse someone of wrongdoing on the basis of nothing other than I misplaced something and they happened to be in my apartment within the past few weeks.
Anonymous
I vote absolutely not. You lost them and you know it. You can’t remember when they disappeared, you can’t remember where you put them when you took them off, but think it likely you didn’t put them where they belong, this is on you. What do you think will happen if you ask? If she did take it, and she didn’t, she’s not going to be like oops my bad here you go. If she didn’t take it, and honestly she didn’t you were home that’s cray, then you, a woman privileged enough to hire a housekeeper, is needlessly jeopardizing her livelihood.
Take better care of your things and make a claim under your insurance if they are worth money.
Canadienne
+1 this so much. You lost them dont hurt some poor woman because of your own disorganization.
anon
+1
Veronica Mars
+2, Plus, this doesn’t even make sense. Why would you take something sitting on top of the dresser, i.e. the first thing that’s likely going to be noticed missing? If someone took my watch that was sitting on my nightstand, I’d immediately notice it gone.
lawsuited
There is nothing to be gained by asking her if she took the necklace/earrings. If she did take them, she won’t tell you. If she didn’t take them, you are insulting her by assuming that she is more devious than you are forgetful (you are making that unfair assumption already, but at least she doesn’t know about it)/
In any event, it’s extremely likely that you simply misplaced them. Jewellery is small and valuable, so we have a tendency to tuck it away in little hiding places making it difficult to find. Around Christmas, I found a necklace I thought I had lost 8 YEARS AGO in the pocket of an old backpack.
cc
+ 1. This reads like an onion article. Hey I’ve been super disorganized, stressed, and harried, but it just occurred to me I could accuse a very pleasant hardworking woman of stealing from me. Don’t you dare!
Goatsgoatsgoats
Slightly different situation, but a similar thing happened with my mom and her wedding band. She tore the house up looking for it and couldn’t and was a bit paranoid about the cleaning lady for quite a while — I think after a year she finally just accepted that she’d lost it. Last month, as she was cleaning out her sock drawer because they got new bedroom furniture, she realized it had been in the sock drawer all along — it must have fallen in there without her noticing!
Also I’ve lost earrings and necklaces before when I put them in a pouch for travel then tossed the pouch aside when I got home; same goes for purses/luggage I use infrequently, pockets in blazers/dresses/pants, desk drawers (at home and at work), and generally other places that you wouldn’t normally think to put them in until it’s the spur of the moment.
anonshmanon
Don’t accuse her. If she took them, she will very likely not tell you. But you say you have no reason to mistrust her.
The last place I found earrings that I had ‘lost’ was an evening purse that I never use. I wore them on a night out, took them off and stuck them in the purse on the subway.
Veronica Mars
This happened to me too, twice. I found some gold studs in the bottom of my purse recently that I completely forgot about removing, and I also found a necklace I’d worn to prom (!!!) in the satin clutch I’d used that evening.
TWo Cents
While you certainly should not accuse her, I would ask her very nicely — hey, I seem to have lost my earrings, did you happen to see them anywhere when you were cleaning? There is a big difference between accusing and asking her a question. I doubt she took it but it is possible that she saw them somewhere while cleaning.
Veronica Mars
But even if she had, this was weeks ago. Who’s going to remember something like that? Also, it just seems like a thinly-veiled accusation of stealing.
cbackson
Ha, I have totally struggled with this when I *did* know I lost something and wanted to ask my cleaning lady if she’d seen it because I just could not find it…but was terrified she’d think I was accusing her of stealing. Finally I decided it was okay because I’ve been using her for years and have a fairly comfortable relationship, and she was like, Yep, totally saw that, you stuck those earrings in a water cup in your guest bathroom.
But with someone I’d only used once, I just fear it would absolutely seem like an accusation of theft.
Veronica Mars
I think your case is different because it’s your normal cleaner and it’s not like you asked her weeks later about the item. Asking before she started cleaning or very soon after seems totally fine.
Anonymous
I’ve done this before. It’s usually with shoes – I’ll leave them somewhere they aren’t supposed to be (like the middle of the floor) and the cleaning person has to move them to clean, but sometimes she puts them in an unlikely place (like under a china cabinet). I hope the company doesn’t think I’m accusing anyone of stealing! I just want to know where I should look for my shoes.
MKB
I’ve also done this – not because I thought my cleaning lady was stealing from me, but because she sometimes puts things in a place I’d never think to look.
A.Nonymous
Thanks all. I think I knew this but appreciate the reality check. I will not ask, and it’s been long enough that she wouldn’t remember anyway. I’m just sad because I really had a sentimental attachment to both items and they were fairly valuable too. I need to take better care of my stuff is the lesson. Thanks again.
lawsuited
But seriously, the necklace/earrings may still surface again. That is very often the way of lost jewellery.
Anonymous
I just found a lost bracelet this morning! It was tangled inside a similar-looking necklace. These things have a way of showing up.
AKB
You will find it. Trust me. Just hang in there.
A.Nonymous
Thank you ladies. My husband keeps saying the same thing and it makes me mad at him because it just feels like he’s not acknowledging that I’m really upset about this, but somehow having internet strangers reassure me that my jewelry will turn up yet is a comfort. Go figure.
lucy stone
I’d call her and let her know that you are sure you misplaced them somewhere, and wanted to check with her to see if by chance she had put them away somewhere. My husband and I could not find a pair of his shoes despite a lot of looking, and a quick text to our awesome cleaning lady let us know that she put them in the suitcase from under our bed when she was cleaning, and forgot to pick it up. Problem solved.
I misplace jewelry a lot – have you checked the small pockets of your purse and wallet? My mom just found a missing key in the lining of the pocket of one of her purses.
jumpingjack
I agree with this. Ask her if she put them away someplace. I’ve had to do this several times with my extremely trustworthy cleaning lady – she was never offended and told me which drawer or cabinet she’d put something into.
Senior Attorney
I agree with the advice to possibly inquire but definitely not say anything that could be construed as an accusation.
And a funny story: I took two crock pots to Lovely Fiance’s house a while back for a party. After the party they sat on the island in his kitchen for weeks. Finally the cleaning people put them away, and for the life of us we cannot find them. It’s hilarious. They are big and you’d think there are only so many places they would fit, but we can. not. find. them. at. all. We keep meaning to ask but then we keep forgetting…
waffles
My husband lost his wedding ring once, and it was missing for a couple months – ALMOST to the point where he had given up finding it and we were just about to buy a replacement. Turns out our cat had picked it up and pushed it into the toe of his shoe. And he had worn the shoes a couple times without noticing. Stay patient, you’ll find your pieces!!
Anonymous
Morning! Hope everyone had a good weekend!
I’m going to start a job in Biglaw soon and my husband is about to start a job that is just as busy, if not more so, than mine will be. Those of you with experience, how do you make sure you have enough time for each other? What do you do when it all gets to be too much?
On the flip side, I’d also be interested to hear what your coping strategies are when one person is super busy and the other isn’t.
Anon
For the first 8 years of my and my husband’s marriage, we worked different schedules and saw each other very little (2-3 days per week). We are both independent people and did not have a kid, so this was not an issue for the most part. It was hard sometimes, but basically we got very comfortable with being happy living our own lives during the time we didn’t see each other, and being intentional about focusing on each other during the times we did see each other. The hardest thing about it is keeping your expectations reasonable. If you expect every moment to be perfect when you are spending time together, that’s a ton of pressure to put on the situation. And seriously, if something is bothering you, talk about it immediately when it’s just something little, before it blows out of proportion because you haven’t seen each other in 4 days and you’re stewing over it. The thing that has helped me the most is trying to remember to assume the best intentions. When you’re stressed and tired and don’t see each other much, it’s easy to start making assumptions about your spouse that are not kind. Assuming the best helps a lot.
That said, once we had a kid, it no longer worked to never see each other. It became incredibly stressful and awful and “too much”, especially since I was doing about 90% of the childcare because of my husband’s schedule. Both my husband and I are now in different jobs and see each other every day– his new job was a promotion with better hours, and mine is something different entirely.
OP
Thanks for the insight! Especially the part about not expecting the moments we do have to be perfect–I think that’s something I’ve struggled with in the past and I needed someone to remind me.
Glad you and your husband are now both on much better schedules!
Anonymous
In a word, outsource. If you’re both going to be working Big Law hours, you need a lot of help and you can afford that help. I’d recommend a biweekly cleaning service, grocery delivery at a minimum, possibly a service or Blue Apron or prepared food delivery, and a regular dog walker if you have a dog.
Anonymous
*a service like Blue Apron
Bonnie
+1 outsource as much as you can so you can spend your limited time together. Blue Apron has also really helped us make time to eat together.
Gorgeous jacket.
Anon
The one thing I would advise is that you both make a pact, NOW, not to hold work against one another when work time impinges on time that you thought would be together time. Work will be very stressful for you both, especially if you cannot control your time. Do not double the stress by adding “guilt” to it. Promise each other that if work calls, you won’t hold it against the other person who gets called in, has to work late, has to give up a Saturday that you had planned together, etc. This is a huge part of making it work.
I don’t completely agree with the outsourcing suggestion–that’s how the golden handcuffs get going. Figure out what stresses you and what you’d like to outsource. Decide what’s worth it monetarily. If you don’t mind laundry, then figure out what night of the week you are going to deal with it, etc.
Best of luck to you. Remember, you have each other, and that’s more than many in these high-stress jobs!
Anonymous
Eh, in my experience golden handcuffs get going when you start treating yourself to $2k handbags and $10k vacations and $50k cars. All the outsourcing recommended above should cost less than $1k a month even in an expensive city, and doesn’t lock you into the lifestyle the same way because you know whenever you leave the job you can stop the outsourcing. Buying a cleaning service isn’t fun for me the same way buying a handbag is, and is something I would gladly give up if I got a job where I didn’t have to work 70+hours a week.
Mpls
Well, you can stop outsourcing without too much trouble if it gets to be too expensive.
Golden handcuffs are more about entrenching yourself in a lifestyle (High-cost mortgage, multiple car payments, other debt obligations) that you can not easier extricate yourself from.
Anonymous
I agree with you. Although it may not be golden handcuffs, these decisions impact your ability to leave the job. When I started BigLaw, lots of my friends started outsourcing everything. I waited, saw what my priorities were, and spent my money in those areas. Now, I’ve paid off my student loans, bought a house, and have a big emergency fund when a lot of my friends are just now paying off their student loans. For many, it has impacted their ability to leave.
Anonymous
I’m not in a relationship but am in BigLaw. Think about making morning time your time. I often find I’m too tired at the end of the day to get ME stuff done, but 5:30/6 is so much easier. You could set up a morning routine together instead of trying and failing at dinner.
Lillers
I agree with outsourcing. It doesn’t have to lock you in to this luxury lifestyle – we have a cleaning lady come every 3 weeks and buy prepared foods (from Whole Foods) when we are short on time.
For us, I found it was easy to come home (late, of course) then just veg out in front of the TV with our food. For me, this perpetuated the “lack of connection”. We try to go out once a week after dinner to a local coffee shop where we order tea/coffee and sit and chat for 30 minutes. It doesn’t always happen, but its a nice way to disconnect and recharge our relationship. If we don’t have time for that, we will try to walk the dog together around the block.
Sh
I’ve been out of the work force for 6 years. I will be returning to work in the next year. I will have to start at a lower, trainee level. Many I will be competing with for these positions will be much younger than me. I am in my mid 40’s.
Since I left the work force, my mouse-y brown hair is streaked with a lot of grey. It became too expensive and time consuming to dye, so I gave up a few years ago.
Should I dye my hair before applying for jobs?
My field is male dominated, and my interviewers will be primarily male.
Anonymous
Yes. Your mousy gray hair will look like you gave up, because that is what you did. No, no one should have to dye her hair, but in reality you really probably should. Ageism is real.
Anonymous
You’re almost certainly going to have a slightly better chance if you color, especially if your interviewers are likely to be younger than you.
BUT do you like your grey streaks? If so, think hard before going back to dyeing. You know how long the process is to grow out, and it’s not like covering your grey is going to hide the year you graduated from college. If you love the streaks and don’t want to go back to frequent dye jobs, focus on getting a very stylish haircut and own it. In your shoes, I would need to dye my hair because I am slightly overweight, prone to flyaway hair and like fairly conservative clothes.
bridget
These days, drugstore hair dyes are great. Go for semi-permanent. You can also try henna, which makes grey hair look spectacular. (Just leave it on for at least six hours.)
Dyeing your hair can cost about $15/month if you’re just looking to not be grey and to be a colour close to your natural one.
ChiLaw
A word of caution on henna — I love it but it can be intense, and hard to reverse. So I would spend a lot of time looking at before and afters of woman with similar hair. The lighter your hair, the more likely it is to turn kind of Ronald McDonald orange.
But if it’s right for you, it can be great! My hair is thin-but-I-have-a-lot, dark brown, and naturally wavy. I have pale freckled skin and green eyes, so reddish hair fits my coloring. I do a “full henna” (like, mix up a ton and put it all over my hair and leave it for ~3 hours) maybe once every 4 months (lazyAF), but in between I do more like a henna mask (mix up a bit with a hair mask and leave it on for an hour or so). Both end up with me walking around like a goddamn shampoo commercial for a week. It plays really nicely with my hair, makes it shiny and soft, and I feel like I look great. My brown hairs end up shinier and they sparkle red in the sun, while my greys turn into red highlights. I love it!
lawsuited
Personally, I would, because I think that there are unfair biases against older workers, but I can’t really bring myself to give that advice.
Anon
Also, if you’re scared to dye your hair, I highly recommend the L’Oreal Preference Mousse. It’s way easier to use than drippy hair color. If you pick a shade close to your own, you cannot mess it up. Promise. I was terrified of dyeing my own hair, and now I am a total champ. All the best to you as you return to the workforce!
Bette
I also recommend L’Oreal Preference (although I use the regular kind – not the mousse). The colors are really good. I am probably also a mousey brown with about 40% grey and color it auburn. I get compliments all the time.
I have it on automatic amazon re-order and get it sent to me monthly for $7. It takes 30 minutes once a month and I am always amazed by how much younger and “fresher” i look after I recolor.
I found the going to the store to get my color and trying to remember when i last colored it, etc. the worst part of the process. I fixed that by having amazon deliver it monthly. It saves me the trip to target and also gives me a reminder when I need to re-do it.
grayish lady
I don’t dye. But I do get frequent haircuts (and in a stylish style) and keratin treatments just on the grays so they have the same smooth texture as the rest of my hair. If you don’t dye, you must be A+ on the maintenance.
FWIW, I have grays hairs mainly in the crown and am 95% medium brunette. I have past-the-shoulder hair with longish layers. Sort of a Stacy London look.
If you do gray, do it very very well. But I don’t dye my hair b/c I see so many bad dye jobs (too dark / too harsh/ too long b/w touchups). I think dying blonder colors would give you a winder margin of error.
Anonymous
Imo this is the way to go. Gray is super in right now. But, yes, the grays have to be the same texture as the rest of your hair.
Bette
Just a note – I tried to rock the grey since I love the look on others and found it actually to be way less work to just color it.
With grey hair I felt like my haircut, texture, shampoo/conditioner habits (had to switch to the fancy “blueing” products rather than my usual pert), and daily hairstyle had to be way more on point.
It was actually way more time and money to do the grey hair upkeep than it was to just dye it with $7 dye monthly.
CPA Lady
I am sorry I am saying this.
I don’t know your industry and I don’t know if you “should”, but if you don’t, make sure absolutely everything else about your appearance is completely on point, so they gray looks intentional, not sloppy. Eyebrows groomed, clothing (high quality and new) well tailored, makeup up to date, hair in an attractive style. I read somewhere that as women go gray the makeup and clothing colors that used to be flattering on them change, so make sure you are still wearing colors that flatter.
I haven’t decided what I’m going to do when I go gray yet. I much prefer to see a woman go gray naturally than to see a woman with sloppy roots, but that’s just me. Its crazy expensive and time consuming to get your hair dyed as frequently as it should be, so I have a hard time saying you “need” to do that.
NYNY
I’m letting my gray come in naturally and it hasn’t had a negative effect on my career, but I have several caveats:
1 – I’m in my late 40’s, but look young for my age, so I like the gray for gravitas
2 – My hair is dark and straight, and the gray is coming in silver-white, so it gives me nice contrast
3 – I get my hair trimmed every six weeks to keep my bob in shape
If you have a trusted friend, can you ask her to assess your hair and advise you honestly if you can pull off the graying look? It’s possible, even in this sexist world where graying men look “distinguished” but women look “sloppy, to make gray look intentional.
Anon
You are my hair idol. I love your attitude and I’m picturing your look and like what I “see”.
NYNY
Aw, thanks! You just made my day. :)
Anon regular poster
I am also letting my grey come in, I am late 40s but look younger. I have had many positive comments.
I agree with the other posters that, if everything else is on point, clothes, makeup accessories and you get a great blowout, you absolutely do not need to dye it.
Grey hair is “in” now. To be honest, I think it looks so good on so many people. The growing out stage is hideous though, I am 14 months in and can only wear it up at work at the moment (which distracts from the calico cat effect because the old, faded, “brorange-y” colour is tucked away.
If you dye it now, you’ll have to go through that stage at some point. I so wish I had never dyed my hair. I started going grey at 15, in streaks. Now, those streaks look like highlights. One of my very stylish male colleagues commented on it the other day.
NOLA
I have mousey brown hair with some gray and, for me, highlights cover the gray or just mix it in with the blonde and it also gives my hair the lift it needs. Maybe try that? It’s a lot less upkeep and I don’t even have to get highlights every month.
Anon For Vanity's Sake
This is what I just started doing, and I like it. My hair is dark, so they’re low lights as opposed to highlights, but it’s great. I still have some gray, just not very much of it.
Bonnie
If you want to only temporarily dye your hair, try one of the semi-permanent hair dyes sold at Target, etc. You can easily do it yourself in about half an hour and the $ investment is minimal.
Goatsgoatsgoats
I generally agree with what everyone else is saying but wanted to add that you don’t have to see it as dyeing your hair to cover up grays/just for the job interview! Is there any (professionally acceptable) color you’ve always wanted to dye your hair? Now’s your chance!
For me, almost nothing beats a good color+cut as far as confidence boosters go, so if you decide to do it, have fun with it!
Brunette Elle Woods
I don’t mean to sound sexist and I really do say this for you benefit but Honestly, if I was in your position, I would get my hair professionally cut and colored, eyebrows waxed, make up applied properly, etc. If you had a job offer and a start date, things would be different. However, you’ve been out of the workforce for 6 years and your competition is several years younger than you. Getting a job offer without additional barriers is hard enough especially in a male dominated field. Do everything you can to get the job offer! Unfortunately looks matter. Don’t make things more difficult for yourself. Typing on iPhone so please excuse typos.
Anonymous
Get highlights and then touch up on your own.
Anon because I can't out my Mom :)
I use the L’Oreal Preference color – 5RB (Dark reddish brown). I was terrified at first but now I get compliments all the time. I have considered going gray but 30 to 40 minutes once a month is so simple. Plus, my mother in her late 60’s still colors her hair and I can’t go gray before she does. :)
DV2JD
Sorry for the early threadjack but I’m trying to handle too much that I can’t really talk to any non-strangers about.
tl;dr: Things that are stressful for domestic violence survivors: background investigation paperwork and reading things about violence/rape/torture/marriage/divorce. Things that are stressful for victims: going to court to argue for a renewed protective order (and attacker might be there, or in area). Things that are stressful for anyone: the bar exam. My next 10 days contains all three of these things and I’m trying really hard to hold it together.
I was already behind on my bar exam course and then had several study days hijacked by stuff related to the above issues or other pressing matters (like job interviews). Then as I’m planning to catch up and it seems doable, the background paperwork is dropped on me, with a pre-bar deadline. I can just copy a lot of my bar application (which was also a stressful thing to do), but it asks for much more info and in more detail. So I’m spending hours digging through old paperwork (what I have left after ex-H destroyed or stole a lot) to get the info together, old vacation photos and scrapbooks to find my international travel dates (and coming across pics of him is just the emotional kick i need during bar prep time) b/c he took my passport and i have no stamps until i got a new one. This sucks up hours/days away from bar prep. And of course, writing down the past decade or more life tends to bring back some really horrible memories even though they were years ago. And no, I don’t have all my addresses for the months i spent staying in random places after i left while he was looking for me after he broke into my building, armed. And no proof of addesses the past couple years since I got away from him b/c i work very hard to keep my whereabouts out of public record. And even for the places I do have solid info on it was during the marriage, so no references b/c I wasn’t ‘allowed’ to make friends with neighbors.
Second, the hearing. The one time of the year that he knows for sure where I will be and when. And could be in the area. After so many death threats its hard to blow off the idea even though he probably wont show. Then having to describe to people the most horrible moments of my life, and how afraid I am, and convince them that’s real so I can get the order renewed.
Normal stress-reduction stuff that I would do is preempted by the need for bar review study.
Then yeah the bar exam. Many of you can relate. I’m so behind in prep and not passing any practice quizzes. And then every time I get to a triggering question it’s so hard to put it out of my mind and not blow the next four questions after. I purposely avoided those kinds of classes while in law school b/c i knew they could derail my studies. And yeah its an inherently stressful exam anyway. I’m tired of everyone being like “of course you’ll pass” “think positive” etc b/c there’s a very real possibility i won’t, for reasons they don’t know about, and i don’t need that kind of pressure or dread of having to tell them i didn’t and I’m trying to come to peace with the idea of failing so it doesn’t break my heart or stress me out.
And yeah, I don’t have a job yet.
So FML. I dont really know what I’m looking for here- advice or sympathy or validation or just the release of saying it out loud.
Anonymous
Hey, look, idk if you’re going to pass, but you’re doing a lot here. Give yourself credit for that. If you don’t have a job, what is this extremely invasive background check and why does it have an insane deadline? If you got hit by a bus, and didn’t do it in time, what would happen?
DV2JD
they cant give me a firm offer until its done, so i cant plan my life at all, and the clearance has to be in a certain time frame for security reasons. if something happened that was bad enough for me not to be able to do it in 10 days, it would be bad enough that i probably wouldn’t be able to work for a long time anyway.
Anonymous
Ok, so you do have a job, mostly! Congrats. Just do what you can on the bar. Forget the schedule, forget that you are behind. When you can devote time to it, just focus on learning what you can. And if you do need to take it again, you’ll do that.
anon
If the background check is this detailed, it likely also reveals that you were the victim of a crime and have upcoming hearings. Is there someone that you can talk to at the agency handling the background check to discuss how many gaps really need filling in?
Cb
No real advice but I am so sorry you’re going through this. Do you have someone who might be able to go through the paperwork with/for you? Access to old email addresses for the travel dates? I had to do this for an immigration document and email was helpful here – found itineraries and emails mentioning where I was which allowed me to reconstruct the dates.
DV2JD
yeah old emails have been helpful. but having to read old emails from ex not so much. I have told only like one person in my life now and also lives nearby about this, who is too busy to help rn. family is far.
Legally Brunette
I have no advice but wanted to say that you are tremendously brave. Sending you lots of hugs. I’m so sorry that you went throught that ordeal, but congratulate you on getting out of that marriage.
Anonymous
I have had to fill out background info and got really emotional about a nasty break-up that I went through in some of that period. I can’t even imagine how much exponentially harder it must be for you. Maybe try to reframe as creating a record of how strong you are because of everything that you have survived? You’re actually listing out everything that you battled through to get where you are today. It’s a testament to your strength.
Do you have any friends/family that can attend the court hearing with you? If not, can they be available by phone immediate before and afterwards? Like hang up when you step into the courtroom and call back before you even step out? Don’t go alone if possible. Can you alert court security in advance? When I had child protection cases where I was worried the dad might be violent, I called the court clerk’s office to let them know and they arranged for extra security (basically extra sheriff’s officer in the building). Would you feel more comfortable wearing a wig/hat/sunglasses combination so your ex wouldn’t recognize you if he’s outside the building? You could take it off inside so you feel like yourself when you speak to the judge.
DV2JD
great suggestions- will do. thx so much
Anonymous
If you do have to go alone, I would also take a taxi so you can exit the taxi and walk directly into the courthouse. Afterwards, wait near the registration/court clerk’s office until your taxi gets there, leave the building and go directly to your taxi.
This is one time you can justify taking a taxi vs. subway for sure.
If you’re really worried about your ex following you, you can also have the taxi drop you off at a large subway station not near your house and take the subway home – plan your subway route in advance so you can get out of the taxi and basically immediately into a subway car.
Anon in Educ
I second the recommendation to reach out to someone who can go with you to the hearing. I know asking for help is very difficult and can make you feel like you’re burdening the other person. As least that’s how I feel sometimes, but I’m in graduate school education and attended a court hearing with a student (under different but similarly emotional/scary circumstances). The student was someone I liked, enjoyed teaching, but was not a friend outside of class. It was an honor to be there for her. I never felt burdened or like it was an imposition.
Blonde Lawyer
Call your local YWCA. Most have DV advocates that will go with you and help you through all of this. If they don’t, they will no what programs do.
Anon
+1. In my jurisdiction, courthouse police will escort victims of domestic violence in and out of the courthouse. If you don’t feel comfortable asking a friend/family member to accompany you, this might be an option.
Also, practice some self-compassion during this tremendously stressful time. My mom was diagnosed with an aggressive form of cancer two weeks into bar prep. Not the same sort of stress as you’re undergoing by any means, but I know how overwhelming it can be to juggle bar prep and personal stressors. Take care of yourself, and seek help if it becomes overwhelming.
Senior Attorney
Yes, I was going to suggest asking for an escort at the courthouse.
Sending you love and support! You can do this!!
emeralds
It sounds like you have so much happening right now, and that you’re wading through some really hard, really heavy stuff. Anyone would be overwhelmed by even one of the things that you’re handling. But I can tell from reading your post that you are SO strong. You are a survivor and you are going to get through this season, even if it feels impossible right now. All you can do is keep putting one foot in front of the other. The only way out is through.
Please don’t forget to take care for yourself. I know you said that you don’t feel like you can take the time away from studying to do stress-reduction stuff. I haven’t taken the bar, am not a lawyer, etc., but your mental health is more important than a test result. I would also go so far as to say, practicing self-care is going to get you better results on the bar than cramming in three more practice quizzes. Sleep. See your Team You. Exercise. Hug a pet. Cook yourself (or order yourself) a healthy meal. I also know from reading this s i t e that plenty of people need a second try at the bar, and then go on to have fulfilling legal careers afterwards.
We all believe in you, and I feel confident that a lot of women are going to be sending thoughts and strength your way. You will absolutely be in my thoughts (and prayers, if you want them). Stay strong and know that one way or another, you WILL get through this.
anon
First, I think you are so brave and so strong for moving forward with all the difficulties in front of you.
Next, this is probably not something you want to hear at all, but is there any way you can defer the bar exam? If there are things out of your control that are stealing time away from studying and preparing, and you’re not yet passing any your practice quizzes, this might be a way to remove a large stressor from your plate. Passing the bar is hard. Period. Passing the bar with so much in the way is even harder. Passing the bar after failing it once, even more so.
Deferring the bar until the next administration could help you immensely with taking care of yourself in a way you really need to right now.
Wildkitten
You’re in a very stressful situation and should reach out for support from those around you. Anecdata – I was hardcore failing bar prep essays at this time and passed the exam no problem. You’ll be in my prayers/good thoughts.
ChiLaw
Sending you internet hugs. How overwhelming! I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this all, and all at once.
To address one thing — if you fail the bar exam, you fail it. A few of my pals failed it, and it was awkward or crappy or disruptive or whatever, but it wasn’t career-killing, it wasn’t devastating, it just sucked. From this post it’s clear that you have overcome things much worse. I am hopeful that it won’t have to be another thing you overcome, but give yourself credit — if you have to overcome this thing, you’ll do it with the strength you’ve already demonstrated.
Rooting for you.
Anonymous
+1 You’ve already survived something much worse than failing the bar exam. You got this.
Samantha
Hugs and hugs my dear. You are terrific and you rock! No suggestions beyond what others have said but my thoughts are with you, at the courthouse and the bar exam. You have gotten through so much and you will do it again.
bridget
You are in my prayers.
Long shot: can your law school help with any of this? They want to see you pass the bar and get a job. They may be able to offer anything from free counseling to an escort at the hearing or even scrounge up some bar outlines for the state you are taking it in.
Godzilla
Gurl, you got this! YOU ARE THE WOMAN. Also, where are you? I’ll go with you.
Anon
Hi Hive!
I have a surprise interview this afternoon at a law firm for a job I really want, but I need some advice as to how to handle one question.
My last job was an unpaid but pretty prestigious government gig of no set duration. While there I had a sexual harassment issue with a coworker and while the issue was responsibly dealt with by my superiors, the experience so colored my time with that office that I thought I would be better off moving on and devoting all my time to job searching. (I’m not interested in debating whether or not that was a wise decision right now!)
Do any of you have tips to explain to interviewers why I left my last gig? I have great references and whatnot. Thanks in advance!
Veronica Mars
While you enjoyed the experience and the work, you ultimately wanted to find a paying job.
Tetra
I think the fact that it was unpaid is reason enough to leave after a while.
Anonymous
Why did you leave the AG’s office?
I got great experience there, it was a very valuable time, but frankly at a certain point I needed to be able to devote my attention to finding a paying job.
anon
“I got great x,y,z experience with this position. Unfortunately, it was unpaid and I needed to focus my time and energy on pursuing other options.” Really, no one is going to spend a lot of time questioning why you stopped working for free.
Anonymous
This. Even if it were a paid gig, people at a law firm would understand why you want the salary upgrade. Since it your previous job was unpaid, people will certainly understand why you’re leaving.
OP
Thank you for all the feedback!
Unfortunately I think I have to give more of an answer than “it was unpaid,” although that is my strong preference and has been my default answer. When I give that answer in interviews, I usually get the sense that they think I am an idiot for leaving without having the next thing lined up. I am probably right about that as I haven’t gotten an offer yet and it has been a few months. And to corroborate, a recruiter I talked to told me law firm partners would view doing so as bad judgment. So I am willing to give this new full disclosure strategy a go if I can find a good way to say it!
ace
could you add a little detail that isn’t really detailed? E.g., “… I found that the expectations and workload weren’t consistent with allowing me to fully pursue my job search.”
[You don’t have to say that the expectations/workload involved putting up with the SH, but it’s not untrue]
cc
I don’t think full disclosure helps you here. You complained, the situation was handled, but you didn’t want to be there anymore. 100% get why you felt that way but I don’t know how you explain that for an interview sound bite.
Bette
I strongly disagree that you should talk about sexual harassment at a job interview.
I hate to say it but I can’t imagine a scenario where this is received favorably. I know this sucks but I think it’s the best advice. I had to leave a previous position early due to a really hostile work environment and it sucked to have to soft shoe the reasons why but I think it’s the best way.
I think you just need to lean on the “devoting all my time to finding a paid positions.
blue
Can you say that you had agreed in advance to a certain time commitment, and that you met that commitment? You don’t need to provide specifics.
I really did have such an upaid arrangement with the DA’s office. I got a job for the time it expired, so I didn’t have to test whether I could have extended it, but from their case management, they needed to know they could rely on me for a certain period in assigning me to cases. It looks good to show that you met your end of the bargain, not the you just bailed.
OP
You’ve convinced me, and I am so relieved to not worry about how to address it! Thank you all!
Mindy
It’s late in the day, but I also wanted to add that recruiters can be helpful, but they’re not always right.
I agree with everybody else that the real reason is not going to be helpful in an interview.
Best of luck!
Anonymous
Focus on why you want this job
anon
What kind of answers have you given for the “what are your strengths” interview question in the past?
Anon
Multi-tasking.
Making clients happy.
Leading teams.
Getting stuff done fast, well and in a way that makes the client happy.
Quant skills.
Verbal skills.
Specific skills they mention they want in the job description (dingdingding! you check the boxes!)
Being a “smart” worker.
You get the idea!
Terry
Give a strength and then tell a story that illustrates that strength.
nutella
“I suppose the best support would be what superiors have me in my last performance review: my writing and research skills, my persistence and thoroughness, my adaptability (quick study) on a new case or with a new set of facts, my soft skills (being a team player) and able to communicate easily with clients and interns alike, and that I am able to take on great responsibility.”
I like framing it as “others have said these about me” and I also have a specific example for each of these. (I am a lawyer, formerly biglaw lit, now inhouse).
That’s an easy one. I’d have a ‘weakness’ response prepared and a ‘where do you s ee yourself in 5 years’ prepared as well, if you anticipate the standard interview questions. I find those a little trickier, maybe because in an interview I am already in sell mode, so the strengths are easy to talk about.
Anonymous
Building collaborative, trusting client relationships
SoccerMum
I’m really struggling with a work friend. I really like hanging out with her- she’s smart, clever, and fun to be around. However, all she seems to want to talk about lately is her boyfriend. They’ve been dating for over a year now (with about a 2-month “break” in there when they broke up). She’s late 30s and the break up was really hard for her. She eventually wants children but feels like time is slipping away. She gave herself time to mourn, taking a few days off work, but instead of pulling herself out of it and moving on, she decided not to accept the break up. He has made it clear that he doesn’t want to be in a relationship with her, but responds to her texts and phone calls, and even went on a recent weekend-long trip that she planned for the two of them. It’s even possible that he’s still dating other people. She’s convinced that he just doesn’t “know how to be loved”. She seems to be convinced that they will be together going forward as soon as he fixes himself with therapy (which he’s not even doing). While the “boyfriend” was great as long as he made her happy, this situation is not healthy, and I don’t think he’s enough of a “catch” for her to put herself through all this. (Frankly, I don’t think any guy would be worth all this).
So, this is her life, and, while I really, really wish she would just move on, I remember how hard dating is (I’m very happily married). The problem is that anytime I hang out with her, she finds it necessary to update me on every.single.detail of any recent conflicts they’ve had. Including their baby talk, which I just have no words/ reactions for. It’s not a situation where we’re exchanging SO talk. This is draining me, and I’m finding myself avoiding her, especially during the work day, because I like to get my work done and leave, and hour-long conversations just prolong my work day. Sometimes I’ll chat with her, and when the conversation turns to her launching into what will likely be a long, drawn-out conversation about him, I make an excuse about something I’m working on and go back to my desk.
I’d like to keep her in my life, but I’m not feeling like a good friend right now. I went through the break up with her, patiently listening and giving advice, and now this is a direction I’d rather not be involved in. I’m dreading going to work these days, knowing that I will have to dance around this topic.
I’m curious to know how other professional women would handle this situation. Do I just fade out?
lawsuited
I wouldn’t fade out. It’s special to find a work friend you really connect with and I find those relationships important. I’m overbearing, so I probably would already have advised her to JSFAMO, and after that I’d say something like “I don’t think X is treating you fairly, and it upsets me to hear you talk about him. Could we please talk about something else?” If it’s more the length of the conversation that is problematic, then suggest getting lunch or grabbing a drink after work so that she’s not just swinging by your office and talking for an hour.
SoccerMum
Thanks lawsuited, that response is something I’m comfortable saying. For some reason, I’m questioning my own instincts on this one because I want to make sure I’m being appropriately sensitive to how hard dating is. Your input is helpful.
CountC
I second lawsuited’s advice. You’ve listening, you’ve offered advice, it seems as though she doesn’t really want to take it and wants to do what she wants to do despite it being a bad idea. That’s her choice, but you’re within your rights as a friend to say, hey I don’t want to talk about this anymore. She can then make the decision as to how she wants to handle that request.
Sure dating is challenging at times, but she’s not helping herself at all by trying to date someone who has made it clear he doesn’t want to date her.
Shopaholic
I think fading out would be cruel in these circumstances.
As someone who just went through a breakup, being able to talk to my friends about it was really the only outlet I had.
Make sure you’re not reminding her of how “very happily married” you are when its clear that you have what she wants.
SoccerMum
Thanks, Shopaholic, I actually hadn’t considered that she may want what I have, because we literally never talk about my husband/ our relationship. She also wants a completely different relationship than the one I have- she wants to book their time solid “doing” things and post good photos on Facebook, whereas my husband and I are more introverted, building in alone time even from each other, and aren’t even on Facebook.
The part of our friendship that I’ve always appreciated is that she and I talk more about our individual selves/ goals/ projects, and not marriage/couple-y type things. She’s so strong and awesome, and I’ve lost respect for this guy for just stringing her on. I’m also a little stunned that she’s hanging on so tightly to this guy when she’s so amazing as her own person. I’m just tired of talking about this guy.
Shopaholic
Fair enough. I guess I’m just a bit sensitive because my married friends tend to treat my dating life as entertainment and don’t really see the fact that yes it can be fun but I’m going through all of this because I’m ultimately trying to meet a life partner.
In addition, I was so willing to put up with less than I deserved from my ex because the idea of being alone again in the immediate aftermath of the breakup was too much to consider. I’m sure my friends thought I was being pathetic by trying to find any way to keep him. I managed to come to my senses after a while but I was definitely your friend in the immediate aftermath.
You sound like a great friend – I think your friend is probably just not herself because of everything she’s going through and losing a friend at this point would be really painful. I would not have made it past the immediate pain if it hadn’t been for my friends.
anon
Right. The term is golden handcuffs because it implies that you are trapped in your current spending pattern… ie, handcuffed to your job because you can’t afford to leave. So, fixed costs like consumer debt, huge mortgage, car payment, country club memberships, whatever.
If I have one free afternoon/ week and the choice is to deep clean my apartment or spend time with my husband/friends/bottle of wine, it is absolutely worth it to pay $120 for a cleaning service (which can get it done *so* much more efficiently and better than I can for that amount of time), which can be dropped immediately if need be.
anon
Ugh, why did that comment get posted here? Fail. Miss that edit function.
anonanom
I have a friend who went through this, and after the 7000th time I offered the advice that she requested and then she did the opposite, I told her for the sake of our friendship I could not discuss this man anymore. We could discuss literally anything else, but his name was giving me an eye twitch and I just could not hear it anymore. I loved her, I felt he was treating her badly, and the more we discussed the problems, the less chance I would ever be able to like him if it did work out. I help firm on it, she found it mostly amusing actually, and they finally ended things about 6 months later. We would not be friends today if I hadn’t enacted that rule.
Anonymous
This is a really good thing to say to a friend – “the more we discussed the problems, the less chance I would ever be able to like him if it did work out.”
When you’re mid-boy crisis, you want to believe everything will work out in the end. That’s why you’re putting in all of this time and emotional energy. You don’t see all the little issues as one big issue (like your friends do); each fight is its own event warranting discussion with your friends. So telling your friend, I can’t hear this same inane nonsense every day, isn’t really going to get through to her. Telling her, I’m rooting for you and I want to be able to continue that, is more likely to be heard.
anon
“I guess I’m just a bit sensitive because my married friends tend to treat my dating life as entertainment and don’t really see the fact that yes it can be fun but I’m going through all of this because I’m ultimately trying to meet a life partner”
Yup. It gets old when your dating life is Funny Story Time for everyone else. Yeah, I get to LOL at the dude who did something crazy on our date, you get to go home to your loving partner. Or, worse, when you need to lean on your friends because they’re all you have, but you’re worried that your friends are so tired of the subject that you ‘re risking losing them, too.
She wants what you have. The fact that you have different philosophies regarding how much of your relationship to put on facebook does not mean that she does not want a relationship with a partner like you have.
Try and be sensitive. It seems like this woman is clearly hurting (a woman in her late 30s who can’t accept a break up? Hurting and thinking not only about this guy but dreading the loss of a relationship in the abstract). Women who are amazing can still want successful romantic relationships. She is probably one of those people who processes things by talking about them. I suspect that she’s not yammering on at you because she thinks you want to know each detail, but that this is a coping mechanism for her. Not that that makes it easier for you, necessarily, but I think it’s safe to assume that her behavior is less about your relationship and more about her trying to feel better. I think that it’s acceptable to place limits (whether its duration of conversations, telling her you don’t support her continuing to pine for this guy, as her friend, or whatever). But understand that she won’t be feeling this way forever, so try not to toss your whole friendship over it. You never know when you might need her, too.
Ellen
Yay Kat! Great Blazer — it looks like something right out of Mad Men! Very cute! As for the OP, I agree. It is not easy when you are single and your freind’s are MARRIED, so we usueally try and figure out what they are doieng right by talking to them about what we are doeing wrong. Dad says he has been with Mom forever, so I should be abel to find a guy. But the guy’s out there are NOT like dad, so it is not easy for a girl like me, who is a profesional, b/c men get scared away by my job and the fact I am a partner and all, he says. I hope I find a confident guy who will not care that I am so sucessful and will marry me soon so that I can have kid’s! YAY!!!!
January
I’ve been in your shoes and I’ve been in your friend’s shoes. I think it’s fair to cut off the descriptions of baby talk (who wants to hear that?), and I think it’s fine to limit the amount of time you are willing to listen to her talk about this. You might even gently suggest therapy if she seems open to it.
I would probably not tell her that this guy is not that much of a catch. When I was the one pining, I found that pretty annoying. It usually isn’t about the guy, specifically – like others have said, it’s more likely about the idea/dream of the relationship. This too shall pass (for you and for her).
Anon
Totally different spin on this, but some of the behavior you described sounds like it might be going beyond unhealthy- I can’t quite put my finger on it, but her manufacturing this relationship even though he’s ended it (while recognizing that he’s also acting badly) seems problematic at best and very manipulative at worst. That would be a concern for me here.
Mat Leave Follow Up
I’ve written about this before, but I am in a position to influence my company’s maternity leave policy. It”s finally sunk in how bad the existing policy is (progress!) and on Friday they asked me to propose a new plan. Beyond 12 weeks full pay, are there any other benefits I should ask for/propose? I was thinking about asking for the option to do a 4-week ramp up so women can transition slowly back into full-time work if they so choose. Beyond that I’m not sure what else to request. I want it to be an even-keeled, fair proposal so that the likelihood of adoption is greater. Any thoughts?
I’m at a ~750 body, national, publicly traded financial firm, FWIW. Extremely male dominated, but intentions are good and they want to do better. TIA!
Anonymous
Free pumps
Free overnighting of milk if you need to travel
Help locating emergency child care service
Leave
I would not ask for “free” pumps (or “free” anything), since your company is paying for it and it’s not free. And most insurance policies now cover a breast pump. If you want to really get into the nitty-gritty, you might find out what kind of pump your company insurance covers. Could be wrong about this, but I think the AHCA requires insurance policies to cover a pump, but some cover any pump you want, and some cover only one certain kind. Notably, these details DO NOT fall into the “likelihood of adoption is greater” category. I would find out what kind of pump the insurance covers, and if it’s remotely acceptable, I would leave it out and not die on that hill.
Yes, 12 weeks full pay, and maybe a ramp-up period, although I think even one week of working half-days would have been a gentle enough transition. So then it’s basically 12 1/2 weeks full pay. If they are amenable to that, great, but if it will confuse them or make this harder to adopt, leave it out.
Does your company expect mothers to work remotely or keep up with their emails while they are out? I would consider making it clear how impossible it is to do that with a newborn. Not sure if your company is the type that needs that codified in the policy, but something to think about.
What about places to pump at work? Does your company have close-door offices, or cubicles, or both? If this policy applies to everyone from assistants to execs (which it should), people without an office (door) are going to need a place to pump. A room that is not a bathroom or closet that has a door that shuts and locks is a good place to start. I would suggest using language like “as needed” and avoid limiting the frequency and duration of time that employees can pump.
Thank you for doing this. I work for the federal government, and we have ZERO paid maternity leave. I had to use all my sick leave, all my vacation, and even then I only had 11 weeks saved up. If I have another baby within two years, I will only be able to save 10 weeks before then (if neither I nor my baby get sick and require me to take a single sick day, and I can’t even think about taking a vacation). I appreciate you normalizing maternity leave at your company.
OP
Thank you, especially for your second to last paragraph. That’s the kind of stuff I think would get traction. Right now we get 1 week full pay per year worked. That’s it. Anything is better. I have to approach this very delicately so not to fall on deaf ears (or ears that are BARELY listening to me for the last 12 mos).
Leave
Glad that was helpful, and one week of pay per year worked is THE DUMBEST thing I have ever heard. That’s even dumber than no maternity leave policy at all. You have to work there for twelve years to “earn” a full maternity leave? Is that purposely so people age out of the childbearing years before they have enough leave? Dumb. You are awesome for fixing this.
Aunt Jamesina
What the heck do you do if you want to have more than one kid? You wait 12 years to have your first, then… get two weeks off for the second? Obviously nobody remotely familiar with female biology wrote that policy.
Baconpancakes
With regards to conveying how impossible it is to work with a newborn, a (mostly unrealistic) suggestion is to make them read this:
http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2014/07/17/notes-from-the-milk-cave/
Srs, though, it didn’t really sink in how often they feed until I read that.
BankrAtty
Fellow federal employee here–look into the short term disability insurance offered to federal employees. It kicks in once you have been out of work 30 days, and will cover pregnancy/birth related leave. It’s about $16/mo for 2/3 of your pay. Doesn’t cover time “bonding” with baby, but it does help with our lack of paid maternity leave.
Anonymous
First year back is rough.
What will they do if you have to leave for a sick baby and are out half the day with no notice? Can you work from home? Make up the hours later? Take vacation?
All of that is good for you and also good for helping to set co-workers expectations: Linda will be out this morning, but she will be working from home in the evening.
FWIW, if you are caring for a sick child, it is not really viable to be working simultaneously unless the baby is napping / you have a sitter or the other parent also home. At best, you can be on-call.
anon
Some companies require that you exhaust your PTO options as part of the maternity leave. Being able to save some days for when baby (and parents) inevitably get sick/have doctors appointments would be helpful. At a minimum, offer some flexibility on working from home, half-days, etc.
Leave
Exhausting your PTO is not maternity leave. It’s PTO. If they require that, they don’t offer maternity leave. (My organization does this. It’s garbage.)
Spirograph
My company doesn’t require you to exhaust your PTO for maternity leave, but before taking non-parental unpaid leave. The parental leave benefit is actually decent by US standards, but if you are not a birth mother (STD is separate from parental leave, and does not run concurrently, so birth mothers get 14-16 weeks at full pay) and want to take more than 8 weeks, you need other options. Sick leave is not allowed to be used as maternity leave, except for the waiting period before STD kicks in.
So in line with your question about a ramp-up period, what my company does, which I actually think is pretty great, is that there is an extra “unpaid parental leave” benefit. You can choose to take 2 weeks of additional unpaid leave (while preserving your PTO) or work 50% time at 50% pay for your first 4 weeks back. Depending on childcare, ramp-up isn’t really the most helpful for everyone, so offering a choice would be great.
Momanon4this
Same policy for all parents regardless of s3ks, gender, birth or adopt or other,and flexibility to take the leave any time in first 12 or 18 months of baby’s life.
TK
+1. Create a culture where men take leave too, and don’t leave out those who become parents through adoption or surrogacy. don’t require parents who will be sending kids to daycare to exhaust all ‘sick’ leave while they’re out bonding with a newborn.
Ms B
The option freely to allocate the leave — instead of 12 weeks off, I would have preferred to have had more flexibility in how I used my time. I would have preferred to have 4 weeks off and then another 16 at half time to transition back in — with family help, I could have stretched things out to six full months before being back full time. That would have saved me thousands in child care and I would have avoided most of the winter in daycare (plus RSV for The Kid).
A place to pump also would be good — around here getting privacy while pumping involves paying to install a lock on your office door.
And +1 on sick child care service.
Anonymous
I would also consider the time before maternity leave. With both of my children, I went a week and a half past my due date before I was finally induced. I stopped working on my due date because I refused to commute an hour and a half each way at that point, and I needed to go to doctors appointments every few days to check on things. My short term disability fought with me about covering the time from my due date to the time I actually delivered (they argued that there was no medical reason to stop working just because I was overdue). Though they eventually gave in and covered the week and a half, it was stressful having to file an appeal with them. Also, the last week I was working, I was having mild to moderate contractions all day long. It wasn’t enough to go to the hospital, but it was certainly hard to keep focused at work. So I guess this is a long way of saying you may want to consider some sort of wind-down period before the due date or at least outline clearly for women what the expectations are for continuing to work when you are at that point.
Anonymous
The option for more unpaid leave after the 12 weeks? DH’s firm reduces billable req. for parents (both gender) returning after birth/adoption.
My office has hospital-grade pumps on campus for nursing mothers– nice to have the better pump and not to have to lug one back and forth.
Anony
Add a paternity policy, if they don’t have one. God knows, new dads need to pitch in so that new moms don’t lose their everloving minds, and taking a long weekend is not good enough. Four weeks ramp up is smart. Sixteen weeks leave for a new baby is not unreasonable–that gets you to/through the sleep regression around that time, which is brutal for all concerned. If the goal is to retain talent past the maternity leave stage, it’s penny-wise and pound-foolish not to be generous, particularly with a demanding job. Things even out quickly, but when you’re in the thick of infant care, a lot of things start looking impossible.
Anon
Is it just specifically the maternity leave policy, or a more global parental or work-life balance policy? If the latter, access to an emergency nanny service is huge. My firm contracts with (and subsidizes) Bright Horizons for back-up daycare, which I can use when our regular daycare is closed for a holiday or snow days, but is useless for when the kid is sick, which happens much more frequently. Just having access to a service you can call to have someone come to your house to take care of the kid, whether or not it is subsidized, is enormous.
If your firm has a billable hours budget — my firm changed its policy so that the budget for the last month before going on leave and the first month back is automatically whatever you actually bill in that time.
A private, clean space to pump that is dedicated to pumping! With a refrigerator that you can leave your pump parts and milk in!
OP
Right now, just maternity leave. Heads would explode if I took it a step beyond that at this point (though it’s on my radar for future discussions!). I like the idea of contracting with a national operator like BH, since I’m sure they have locations near most, if not all, of our offices nationwide. Also, your last paragraph is added to my list – if I had to pump in my current office setting I have no option but the bathroom and no access to a fridge but for the one that holds beer… that’s a major point. Thanks!
pockets
If you’re in the US – isn’t it illegal to discriminate based on gender? I’m not sure if that’s a federal thing or a state by state thing. In NY, companies can’t have “maternity” leave – they have “parental leave” and it’s the same whether you’re a mom or a dad. The way they get around it is by distinguishing between primary/non-primary caregivers. So in many law firms, primary caregiver leave would be 3 months paid, whereas non-primary would be two weeks (or whatever).
Anonymous
I find it really interesting that this is so different from Canada. We have a clause in our Constitution that expressly guarantees equality between men and women but our Supreme Court has upheld a system as on-discriminatory whereby women who give birth have access to greater paid leave in recognition of the physical effects of giving birth.
Our parental leave is paid through the public employment insurance system. Birth mothers get 16 (15?) weeks and either parent or an adoptive parent can take 35 (37?) weeks. It’s paid as a percentage of salary to a fairly low cap. Federal govt and most larger companies top up that amount to full salary. One parent on leave at a time max.
anon a mouse
Depending on how many sites this will cover, purchasing hospital-grade pumps is a nice touch. A friend’s company has a lactation room with 4 Medela Symphonies and it eliminates the need for her to carry a pump to/from the room. Everyone just brings their own tubes and parts in. And the hospital grade pumps are so much faster and stronger that she is more efficient pumping.
Wow
Thank you for doing this!
1) Emergency child care (e.g. back up nanny to come to one’s home if child is too sick to go to daycare)
2) Longer paid maternity leave (12 weeks is good but not great)
3) The option to take unpaid leave up to 6-9 months PP
4) Option for returning employees to come back on a reduced hours schedule (part-time, 3/4 time, etc.)
All of the above should apply to men as well
Shocked
“12 weeks is good but not great.” Are you in the US?? We have a local law requiring 6 weeks here and the “nice” employers offer 8 weeks. The only people I have heard of getting 12 are big law employees and people who take unpaid FMLA.
OP
Well right now I’d get 2 weeks, so even 6 would be a dream! I actually did a survey of 2 dozen peer financial services and consulting firms with offices in my home city (all were either large regional or national, if not international, firms) and found 12 to be very much on the low end for those industries. I’m not in law and not a federal employee; my survey was of publicly traded and private employees. It was also not scientific – I asked my contacts in those firms to send me their policies and they did. I was surprised that 12 weeks ended up being on the light end of paid mat leave for the industry.
Anonymous
If you need some justification for more weeks – read down to the second half of this case. It’s from almost 20 years ago but it’s a key decision from Canada were the Ontario Court of Appeal (appeal to Supreme Court of Canada denied) directly addrressed why 4-6 weeks was not enough time off for birth mothers.
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/1997/1997canlii1508/1997canlii1508.html
“Pregnancy and childbirth, whether easy or difficult, are entirely natural processes. They are not illnesses. A woman should not be forced to assume the label of invalid merely because she requires 15 weeks away from work in order to prepare for labour, give birth to a child, and recover from the pregnancy.”
I think you should ask for 14 weeks maternity leave for birth mothers at full pay plus additional 6 weeks available for one of birth parent, adoptive parents or non-birth parent at full pay. (so birth mom would get max of 20 weeks). I’d focus on length of leave and amount of pay right now. Maternity leave should be available prior to birth occurring. No one wins when someone goes into labour in the office because they are trying to make their leave last. Depending on their reaction you could try other variables – like maternity leave with 10 weeks at full pay and 8 weeks at half pay with the option to work half time and receive a top up to full pay.
Ms B
One note – six weeks for adoptive parents does not cut it.
Regardless of whether a child joins your family by birth or adoption, most child care providers do not take infants until between 12 and 16 weeks. My return to work was dictated by that timetable more than anything else because we did not have decent child care options until that point, especially because we had a “pop up” situation. Working through a child care waiting list is almost impossible when you do not know what month, let alone year, your child will join your family.
Wow
Yes, I’m in the US. I had 5 months paid parental leave (BIg Law). It was amazing and I’m so, so grateful. My firm also had the option to have unpaid leave up to 1 year.
ChiLaw
Re: pumping, they may really take to the suggestion of setting up A Nice Pumping Room. Because it’s pretty and obvious (like, it’s a physical thing that people see when they pass through the office, in recruiting materials, whatever) and it communicates “we care about working parents” AND it’s relatively cheap (compared to PTO etc) and it can make a big impact on the quality of life for the moms. If they have a dedicated space to put in a fridge, some comfy chairs, outlets, and some tables (maybe some room dividers if people want) that’s all they’d really need, and pumping moms would be so grateful.
Runner 5
+1. Talk about locking office doors doesn’t help employees without offices.
Anon
How are bonuses or other compensation (equity, commissions, etc.) treated as part of maternity leave pay? For example, roughly 1/3 of my total comp is paid out in my year-end bonus. Under our previous maternity leave policy, my bonus was prorated for the amount of time I was out on maternity leave. They recently revised the policy so I’ll still receive my full bonus, even if I’m out for 4-5 months on maternity leave (*insert praise hands emoji here*) and I’m SO happy about that.
OP
Yes. Excellent point. People in my position are 2/3 bonus, so that’s significant. I know my office heads, who award bonuses at their sole discretion, have been still awarding full bonuses for people on mat leave, but I can’t assume that’s true for the other 29 offices in our company. That’s an important point that I will include. Thank you!
Vineyard Girl
That seems shitty for the rest of the employees, since you worked 7 to 8 months of the year and they worked 12, but you all got the same bonus. If you don’t work a full year, for whatever reason, you shouldn’t get a full bonus.
Anonforthis
Anon for this to not out me!
Work at Amazon. We have:
1) Up to 4 weeks pre-partum leave as required by doctor at 100% pay
2) 10 weeks post-partum disability if giving birth at 100% pay, full benefits, stock accrual continues as if you were working full time.
3) 6 additional weeks parental leave per 52-week period in which a child is born, taken when you wish to do so (birth and adoptive parents).
4) Mother’s rooms with locks, fridges, and SINK. Sinks are important!
5) Option to ramp back part-time for up to two months.
So you can tell them that the evil company the NYT likes to demonize has 16 weeks — why not them? :)
Aunt Jamesina
NYT demonization is pretty fair as long as Amazon doesn’t extend those benefits to its warehouse employees around the country.
Thank you!
I’m late but I have to join in because I am so thankful for the policies at my organization. I have 2 suggestions for you:
1. Allow enployees to use a combination of paid and unpaid time. While my organization doesn’t offer paid maternity leave, our leave accrues fast and I didn’t find this to be an issue. When my son was born, I had 9 weeks of PTO accrued but took 14 weeks off. I spread out my PTO, taking some paid and unpaid time each pay period so I would get a paycheck the entire time. It was helpful for cash flow purposes and I could take the time I wanted.
2. Offer unpaid leave. My organization offers 6 months unpaid parental leave on top of any paid leave that can be used intermittently for the first year of the child’s life. This has allowed me to work part time, averaging 30 hours a week, and my son is now 10 months old.
These policies have been vital in helping me transition to life as a working mom. I feel more committed to the organization and enthusiastic at work because I’ve been able to ease in at a pace that was right for me. I was ready to go back to work after maternity leave because I had the time I needed, and I’m finally starting to feel ready to return to full-time once I hit the one year mark.
Flexibility is so important because “right” is different for everyone, and you really don’t know what that is or how you’ll feel until you’re there.
Anonymous
Does anyone have experience with Rent the Runway Unlimited?
I have a destination wedding in a few months and will be out of the country for 9 days (longer then RTR’s rentals allow). I was thinking of doing a month of RTR unlimited, which might also give me the chance to try a few dresses first, before settling on the 3 to bring.
Any flaws with this plan? I’ve not seen any details about needing to purchase the service for a minimum number of months, is there one?
meow
I’ve had great experiences with RTR unlimited. One caveat is that they had a “waiting list” when I did it, which I think was just so that you couldn’t use it in lieu of a short-term rental. I was off the “waiting list” in about 3-4 weeks. So, start early. It was really fun and it satisfied the “shopping itch,” so it helped curb spending.
There is no minimum amount of months.
Anonymous
Thanks, this is helpful. I’d thought of doing a month early, just in case, to make sure I can find dresses that work. This might also gel in the case there is a waitlist.
Goatsgoatsgoats
I loved RTR Unlimited and only stopped because of the price increase. And I second that it helps scratch the shopping itch and arguably saves money. That being said the one flaw in your plan is that the dress/size you want may not be available when you want. You don’t get to place your order until the last one has arrived back at their warehouse (free two day shipping helps but it’s not immediate) so you won’t know what’s available until it’s time to order. That being said its not too much of a problem if you’re flexible with what you want.
Also I could be remembering incorrectly but I think some of their super super fancy gowns weren’t available for RTR Unlimited back when I used it. Though, this could be different now!
LAnon
Your plan should work perfectly as long as as you don’t mind hopping on the phone and being insistent about canceling – they make it a little difficult by not letting you do it online.
And you’ll definitely have to be a little flexible about what dresses you want – they have a really good selection but if you have your heart set on a few, there are no guarantees they’ll be available, as some other posters noted.
Anonymous
Thanks for the input everyone, I really appreciate it!
Scarlett
I tried it and quit after the first month. There wasn’t a prohibition against that, but you had to have returned an the clothes first so make sure there’s nothing else in your queue. I didn’t like the selection for work clothes, but I think they had a lot of party dresses, but maybe not everything available in shorter rentals. Really poke around before you sign up, i was really unimpressed and decided I’d rather have a few cute things from cheaper brands I got to keep.
Anonymous
There are dressed I am seeing right now under the unlimited section that I might like. Did you feel like it was bait and switch at all, or was it clear going in?
Scarlett
I just looked at the items and not the sizes before I started and then they didn’t have much in my size (10-12). Also once I finally found a few things I liked and ordered them, I’d get an email saying they weren’t available, had come back damaged or weren’t returned as expected so please pick something else. Since there was such liked selection in the first place this was next to impossible so I cancelled.
Bonnie
Recommendations for booties for the weekend? Something comfortable but not completely flat. Hard to think of winter clothing as I’m melting but would like to take advantage of the NAS
NOLA
I have the Franco Sarto Linden boots in two colors. They’re in the NAS. The most comfortable boots I’ve had in years. Wore them like crazy all winter.
SIL
My BIL got into a motorcycle accident this weekend. Luckily he’s not permanently injured (or dead – he wasn’t wearing a helmet!), but he’s pretty banged up – dislocated one shoulder badly, broke his other hand, possible broken foot. He’s seeing an orthopedic surgeon to see if he needs surgery today.
He has a physical job which he won’t be able to do for the foreseeable future. He works for his family business, so I’m not concerned about him – they’ll take care of him. But out of curiosity, what do other people do when they get into an accident on personal time that prevents them from working? Only liability on the bike, so assuming that insurance won’t cover disability. Thoughts?
Also, what are the company’s obligation to the employee in this case? My husband and I are planning on opening a business in a few years, and we were stumped on what the company would/should do in an instance like this.
Anonymous
I believe this is what short term disability is for– so you can recover part of your paycheck while on FMLA.
Unfortunately, I’ve never heard of anyone not expecting to get pregnant paying for short term disability insurance.
Mpls
I have short term (and long term) disability, and no plans for getting pregnant. I am a single person who has no other income to fall back on in the (hopefully unlikely event) I am unable to work. I’ve had disability insurance coverage through my employer.
For the issue at hand, I think this is really more of a case for long-term disability coverage. Short-term (in my experience) is a pittance and for 90 days at the most. Long-term is what covered 60% of income, but didn’t kick in until after the short-term period had expired.
Anon for this
My mom was in an accident about a month and a half ago (she was a pedestrian hit by a car), and in addition to the driver’s insurance, she had #1 additional insurance covering her as a pedestrian and #2 short term disability through her work. It’s AMAZING how fast the money goes! After a week in the hospital and then inpatient rehab, she has used up most of the other driver’s insurance.
Anonymous
They go bankrupt. They spend down their savings, charge essentials to credit cards, and lose their homes. They rely on family. They have Aflac.
The company’s responsibility is to engage in the deliberative process to identify reasonable accommodations, which may include unpaid leave. Depending on the state, they may be required to have short term disability insurance.
crashes
This post brought back a lot of memories.
A family member was hit by a car while crossing the street. He was nearly killed…. his spine was shattered and many, many other terrible injuries. He is paralyzed for life. He hasn’t worked since. The expense has been…. just, ugh.
One of the most common causes of spinal cord injury in young men that he met at the rehab facility was motorcycle accidents.
The driver had the minimum insurance required by law in the state of NY. It was used up in the first week in the ICU. He was hospitalized for 6 months.
My family member was able to get some additional monies from his own car insurance, which amazingly covered him for this. The insurance company denied it for months, and we had to threaten them with legal action. His insurance subtracted out what was paid by the other driver though.
The medical insurance companies, when they hear this is a motor vehicle accident, will immediately start legal action to claim their expenses from the monies paid out by insurance companies. So in the case of serious injuries much/all of the money may never enter your hands. My family member’s out of pocket uncovered medical expenses and vast loses projected for the long term were so great, that he was left a small amount of money by the health insurance companies. Shockingly, they had some trace of empathy. But it was also a big fight.
My family member…. like many these days… was a highly educated and trained worker in a specialty that was increasingly outsourced and changed to contract/consultant work in many places. As such, he was employed by such a consulting company. He lost his health insurance when he couldn’t return to work the following month. He had no short term or long term disability insurance offered from his consulting company.
Insurance is very important.
Get the best insurance you can on your own car, as you want good uninsured/underinsured coverage for yourself if someone hits you and honestly….. you want to cover other people if you are so unfortunate you cause injuries to others. If you are high net worth, you should have a good umbrella policy. Health insurance…. at least there are options now through Obamacare if you lose your job/insurance. If you have a family, the importance of life insurance is a given, as are short/term long term disability. Many life insurance policies will pay out something for very serious accidents, that include things like paralysis. Check yours.
These experiences remind me how we as a society, worry too much about the wrong things. Your likelihood of catching the most recent foreign flu that is threatening to ravage, or to be attacked by terrorists, or to be shot etc… is vanishingly small for the vast majority of us. But from what we hear on the news every day, you would think otherwise. Simply driving a car is by far the most dangerous thing most of us do. And most of us give little thought to the risks, or insuring appropriately.
Anon for this
+1 to all of this
KT
Outside of short-term disability or life insurance in the case of death, the company’s responsibility is fairly small.
For the individual, if they don’t have savings, they declare bankruptcy (medical debt is the number one cause of bankruptcy in the US).
Runner 5
This is what critical illness cover is for.
Sh
Never heard of this. What is it? Purchased by employer or employee?
KT
I LOVE, LOVE this suit. It has just enough of a vintage vibe without being costumey, and I love the color.
Idea
I have a job that involves a lot of safety issues – compliance, etc.
Nearly every employee that will ever drive on company time is required to have x amount of insurance, or sign a waiver saying that they’ll only drive vehicles owned or rented by the company (unless commuting to or from work, obviously).
Also, we’re all required to take a safe driving course every year or 2.
It’s not medical, exactly, but increases safety.
Idea
Sorry – this was for future employe/business owner above who posted about her relative’s motorcycle accident.
Carrots
I’m moving out on my own this weekend, after living with my best friend for four years, since she got a job in NYC. Any tips to reacclimate to living solo? I lived on my own for about a year and a half before we moved in, but I feel like it’s going to be a jarring process and would like to take some steps to help it. I’ll have other friends living nearby and I’m keeping the two cats we have.
Catlady
You should imitate Abbi from Broad City’s dance to Edge of Glory at least once (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uv2QrtQh-4).
Catlady
oh I should add, not entirely safe for work!
Straitfix?
Does anyone have experience using Straightfix (or any straightening hairbrush) on short hair?
KT
It’s not great–it doesn’t really get close enough tot he root of your hair; it’s great for longer hair because it leaves lift at the top, but for short hair, I think it just won’t look straight.smooth
Anonymous
Alright, ladies of Manhattan. I’m heading to NYC next month and will have a Saturday night free with the DH– and a babysitter for my kiddo. Any awesome ideas for what we should do?
AIMS
Where are you staying and what do you like to do?
Mindy
watch the sunset at a[n oyster] bar by the water.
catch a show
make reservations for dinner
Not Becky with the Good Hair
Any last minute advice or strategies for the Bar Exam next week? I’m finding state law essays the most intimidating, but it is what it is.
Wildkitten
I loved Bar Exam mind.
Anonymous
Focus on the MBE. You can basically autopass if you get a good MBE score. Don’t worry too much about state law essays. Memorize a few key ideas for each subject area and then you can pick up a lot of points by reciting those points of law and demonstrating your ability to do legal analysis. Sounds like you’re in very good shape.
Try to relax the night before the exam and once it’s started don’t spend much time studying. Maybe 15-30 minutes in the morning reviewing flashcards or outlines right before you go into the test but other than that focus on relaxation. SLEEP!!!
Good luck!
This advice is state-dependent. Make sure you know how it applies in your state.
Did you do barbri? They had a whole lecture on how to fudge it when you don’t know the law (and I imagine other courses had this too). Practice your approach so that you don’t get psyched out by a crazy question on some area of law you’ve never heard of. You don’t want to waste time freaking out (and chances are, if you’ve never heard of the random law, no one taking it with you has. It is better to be the person that can get through a reasoned response instead of the one spending a massive amount of time on something they don’t know no matter how long they dwell on it).
Also, take time to relax over the next week (at least as much as you can let yourself) so that you don’t start the exam worn out. It’s a marathon for sure. Especially if you’re lucky enough to be in a 3-day state.
AIMS
For the essays, read a few model answers and outline them for practice. They tend to follow a formula and if you just follow that, you’ll get a few points even if you don’t actually get any of the substance right. I did this for two states and it worked. I think I basically began every answer with, “In New York….” and “Under New York law…” All the bar examiners want to see is that you can spot issues and apply rules to them. It’s not about actually remembering the rules that apply to commercial paper in your state.
Agree that the MBE is what you should focus on. That was my entire strategy, along with bring a good lunch and don’t talk to crazy bar takers. You’ll be fine. All you need is a C. Good luck!
Shayla
“All the bar examiners want to see is that you can spot issues and apply rules to them. It’s not about actually remembering the rules that apply to commercial paper in your state.”
I think this is mostly true. When I didn’t know the state law, I made it up applied the made up law, and found my conclusion based upon all that. That way, you only lose a point for not knowing the law–but still applied it and closed it up.
Not Becky with the Good Hair
Thanks for the advice and tips!
I’m taking Barbri and * think * I have an attack plan for the inevitable “what heck is this” essay. As someone had posted in past threads “here, under, therefore,” then fill it in.
For the MBE, timing hasn’t been an issue and I’m relatively consistent, so fingers crossed that carries over to the actual day of the exam. But I’m also terrified of the MBE (in a non-panicked way).
I’m in a 3 day state and worried about actually sleeping well the nights before the exam. But on the bright side it’ll be over soon!
Betty
Count on there being at least one essay that will be on a topic you have never heard of/appropriately didn’t pay attention to because it is so obscure. Barbri does give a primer on how to make things up, but I would add that this is a weird time to trust your schooling. Chances are you’ve taken the basic law school courses, right? So make something up that sounds legit to your lawyer brain for “under”, and chances are that you will be in the ballpark.
Regarding not sleeping, I can’t speak to others’ experiences but I will say that I slept horribly before the first night, better after the first day and excellent between the second and third day (I took 2 states). I also had a few exams in law school where I didn’t sleep well before the exam, and I learned that I actually functioned ok on less than decent sleep. A lesson I relearned after having kids and going back to work: you need far less sleep in the short term than you realize! Then you will be on the other side of the exam. I slept for a solid 24 hours after it was over.
anon
Another tip for doing well on the bar exam is to look up the list of most frequently tested state bar exam subjects. Focus on that. It will account for at least 60% of your essay questions. If you get a decent MBE score you will pass.
Ms B
Get a countdown watch and pre-program it for each essay (i.e. 30 minutes each or 45, 45, 30, 30, 30, 30 (the old New York schedule)). Move on to the next essay when time expires no matter what because time can seem to fly during the test. Spot each issue and spit out something that resembles a rule for the call of every question.
Plan to pack your own food and bring it with you daily.
Layered clothing is your friend.
There is no such thing as too many back up batteries for your laptop.
If you are writing by hand, get extra Bluebooks up front for every question and bring pen pillows.
Good luck!
shamlet96
hi ladies: i’m a new homeowner and currently trying to find a roommate (both for financial reasons but also I’ve realized I’d like to have another person around in my house, in a way I didn’t when I had a 1-bdrm apartment). I’ve posted on craigslist and also reached out to my friends to see if they know of anyone, but any tips on finding the right person and/or hazards to be aware of? I haven’t lived with another person (not counting SOs) in almost 15 years, so I know there will be a bit of an adjustment. TIA!
Annon
Ask for a release so that you can do a credit check and an employment check. Make sure that you are clear about expectations when it comes to housekeeping duties, your policy on overnight “gardening” guests ect. Best to go by referrals (i.e. friend of a friend) to make sure that you don’t end up with a complete psyco!!
Wildkitten
Do you have seperate bathrooms?
shamlet96
Yep, I have a 3 bdrm/2 bath so the housemate would have her own bathroom (otherwise I don’t think i’d be willing to even consider it).
Cat
All right, ladies, I finally caved and did some NAS shopping:
– I hope Zella lives up to the good reviews because I’m trying a number of different pieces, including the famous leggings, for the first time. Most excited about the “wilderness” sweatshirt, which looks breathable and just the right amount of warmth for fall biking.
– My search for comfy winter commuting shoes led me to try out the Ugg lace-up flats as well as La Canadienne “Sharon” short boots.
– I was generally underwhelmed by the clothing options this year (SO MANY oversized drapey sweaters!) other than the dresses. I forbade myself from ordering more gray ruched sheath dresses despite several pretty options (I have a problem!) but am giving the Eliza J Scuba Shift Dress a try — it’s so perfectly kicky without being too “young” for a 34yo, right?
– The home sale has some good “stock up on gifts” pieces so I picked up a few champagne flutes, trays, etc — not glamorous but nice to pick up a bunch of things in the $40-50 price range for more like $25.
Savvier shoppers, question for you — I ordered the La Canadienne’s in 1/2 a size larger than my normal shoe size because my normal size was sold out and I may want to wear thick socks with them. If (1) the pair I ordered ends up being too big, and (2) my correct size is restocked after the NAS ends, can I still exchange the pair I ordered for the correct size without a change in price?
Wildkitten
I lost my job a month ago and have a new job that is temporary but I have to move for. I’ve been with Mr. kitten for five years but his response to this season has been horrible. Paranoid, not supportive, personally insulting. It’s been bad. Do I break it off because my life will be filled with worse things and I need a partner who responds better? Do I hope he learned from this season? Do I take it as a price of admission that he’s great day to day but not great in emergencies? Or is that a deal breaker?
I feel like my whole life fell apart this past month and it’s not a good time to be making decisions when I’m so stressed but it’s also a real life test of how he/we respond to extre adversity.
Annon
Don’t make any decisions until you calm down and are ready to do so. The inability to deal with a life crisis should be a deal breaker. Marriage and long term partnership do involve a ups and downs in finances, careers, health crisis ect. You have just gotten a sample of how he acts, are you willing to bear his crappy behaviour if someone in your family dies, or your kid has problems?
shamlet96
agree with this. And sorry you’re going through this right now. :(
Anon
Can you give some specifics re the response? Like what is he saying that he sounds non supportive or insulting? Is it along the lines of — you better take this gig bc you won’t get another? Or something else.
Typically I’d say do NOT make big decisions right in the middle of a huge change like this. But tuck this away in your mind and decide in the next 6 months whether this is someone you want by your side for life’s ups and downs. Is it that he just can’t cope at all? Or sees this as your problem? Or is there some way in which his reaction would have been better — say with a bigger emergency fund or something?
Wildkitten
No, it wasn’t about the jobs. He overreacted to a non- situation and he said something very personally hurtful and unnecessary about my judgement, that I couldn’t be trusted to not make a specific terrible mistake that I would never ever make.
Anonymous
This sounds really overwrought and dramatic tbh. He then sincerely apologized!
Wildkitten
But it’s not okay with me to treat me poorly and then sincerely apologize. I need to not be kicked when I am down. Ya know?
Anonymous
You sound not invested at all.
Anonymous
So along the lines of, “you’re moving away so that must mean you’re going to cheat on me; oh wait no I didn’t mean it like that, I love you, babe (I totes meant it like that)”?
Wildkitten
No.
cc
Wild kitten can you give us any more details? It is hard to know where on the scale this might rank without them. I would say that in general, there is a huge difference between “not great in emergencies” and “actively bad in emergencies.” and I don’t think that is a price of admission thing. You really need a rock when things get back. Hope the new job is a good option for you- I know you guys were thinking about rings as of recently so hopefully this is something you can work through.
Wildkitten
He said I would do something that would get me disbarred (that I would never do.)
Anonymous
I’m so curious, is it a felony DUI?
Anon
But even throughout your time commenting here, people have called you out for questionable judgment. So, it’s not beyond reason that your BF might have some concerns. This seems a really dramatic response to apparently one comment that may or may not be justified.
Anonymous
Unnecessary.
Wildkitten
Yeah I wouldn’t marry those commenters either.
Senior Attorney
Yikes! I’m so sorry to hear this!
I feel like I might see this as a deal-breaker. One of my aphorisms (and you know I have a million of ’em) is “the relationship stands or falls on its worst moments.” I can’t imagine having a partner you know will turn against you in an emergency!
Does he recognize that he’s behaved badly? If so, maybe you can think about some counseling to right the ship. But if he’s digging in and defending his right to treat you poorly, I might walk.
I don’t usually advocate taking relationship breaks, but maybe one is called for her. You certainly don’t need that negativity in your life right now. And maybe when the dust settles you two can decide how to proceed.
Senior Attorney
Actually, I can imagine having a partner who will turn against you in an emergency. It’s what my ex did. It’s horrible and should be a deal-breaker. No “might” about it, absent a real commitment on his part to fix it and concrete steps in that direction.
Scarlett
+1 – I’m sorry you’re going through this. One thing I learned the hard way is to stop taking into account the length of time you’ve been with the person. It’s the throwing good money after bad idea. Without knowing more about your relationship, it’s hard to say if this is what you’re doing, but if you start to think “but we’ve been together 5 years” as the main reason for not leaving, then rethink staying.
Wildkitten
He totally recognizes it, and is really sorry, but I don’t know how to tell if he’s doing enough to change, because situations like this don’t happen very often (thankfully). We’re basically taking a break since I’m moving for the job for a while. shrug emoji.
Anonymous
Ok so this pisses me off Wildkitten. This is your life. You don’t get to shrug emoji it. You’ve been with him for 5 years, he didn’t react well to a very stressful situation, and now you’re leaving him and taking a break from your relationship? Consider that there are two people not handling this well. Ask yourself if you are perfect, or if you are also human and have enough love and investment in this relationship to accept genuine remorse. Maybe brainstorm some ways to stop this kind of reaction should it recur.
No shrug emoji. If that’s how you feel break up because you don’t care.
Wildkitten
Shrug emoji is I genuinely don’t know what to do.
Senior Attorney
I don’t think you’re required to be perfect in order to not be treated badly. If he’s sorry then he will make it up to you in a way that feels good to you, but I think the ball is in his court at this point.
Anon
I didn’t take it as her not caring, but being nearly paralyzed with indecision. When it seems that everything is falling apart, holding onto something familiar can be soothing. When that familiar thing (Or person) is hurtful, it just adds to the stress.
I stayed for years after treatment like this, it only got worse, not better but it wasn’t the same situation.
If I had to re-do it again there would be one warning that this isn’t how anyone should be treated and a short period to prove that the message came across and was properly acted upon.
Anonymous
That makes sense! Shrug emoji is apparently ambiguous.
lost academic
Sounds like this is a good opportunity for you both to do some soul searching – for him, this might be an important test: can he really envision his life without you? At one point my now husband faced this down and thought maybe he should call it quits, and after all of 2 days realized it would just about kill him, and that did create some meaningful change. We still have a LOT of issues to work on, but maybe he needs a wake-up call on this.
Anonymous
Seriously consider getting some counseling both for yourself and as a couple (the latter is especially key). My husband and I went through a similar dynamic in my own time of career crisis and transition last year, layered with some sh*tty family stuff that he didn’t handle well. It was almost a total deal-breaker for me and it really sucked, and was similarly paralyzing, so don’t let anyone give you crap for not being decisive about how to handle this at this time.
Don’t make any major decisions about this now. Wait for your own life to settle down, then go to counseling with him and talk through this. Given that he is remorseful, if you still want to be with him then I think you can work through it if you feel like it. But it’s a huge breach of trust and not to be taken lightly. You’ll be able to feel like he’s doing enough to change when you feel genuinely better. Don’t be afraid to tell him specifically what you need him to do.
Wildkitten
Thank you.
hugs
Hey WK,
I agree with what everyone said– probably break up, but give it some time so you aren’t making all the drastic huge life decisions all at once. Also, I am sorry you are going through this.
Real talk here: in the last year, a freak disaster destroyed my home, I was hospitalized when my appendix burst, and despite knowing it all and cranking out as many hours as I could despite no work at the firm, I got laid off. From day one of being evacuated from my home, my now fiance was a saint. He smiled and told me he was thrilled that I could officially move in while my house was being fixed. He took me to the hospital in the middle of the night and waited on me hand and foot after. He hugged me as I cried about my job and the stress and told me it would all be ok. He introduced me to as many people as he could to help me find a job and cheered me on when I went after jobs and didn’t judge when all I wanted to do was curl in a ball some days. He told me not to worry about money and made sure I was on his insurance plan. He told me if I wanted to get a job elsewhere, we could move. All of this took place over some 9 months and even when life or work was stressful for him, he never took it out on me. Through all this sh!t, I kept thinking to myself, my house will be fixed, doctors took care of me/I’m healthy, and I will find another job eventually, BUT BOY am I glad that this relationship is EASY. I never had that before him and that was how I knew it was right.
Dating should be easy because as you’ve seen, life will throw you some curveballs like illness, mortgages, job loss, sick parents, childcare, etc. etc. etc. You should be able to count on each other and on the relationship as your solid foundation.
I guess my question for you is this: was this a one-off? (My hunch is no, because you’ve asked here.) You’ve been together 5 years; have there been other stressful times to you/the relationship that he was a dependable partner?
And I wish you luck. (And congrats on landing something so quickly!)
Senior Attorney
This. I had a gigantic disaster with my elderly parents when Lovely Fiance and I had only been dating for 7 or 8 months. I was at my wits’ end and not at my best, and he was a saint. Cooked me late dinners after I’d been running all over town, sat with my mom and me in the ER, and minded his own business unless asked for his opinion. It was amazing and I am positive that he will be there for me in the same way no matter what life throws at us. Life is hard, but relationships should be easy.
Ms B
+100. I was dating a guy for about a month and then my apartment building caught on fire. My unit did not burn, but every blessed thing I owned was smoke damaged. That guy helped me do 17 loads of laundry in a weekend, fed me, and helped me get through the month when my apartment was barely habitable . . . while I was studying to take the New York bar exam so that I could move 1000 miles away. A guy that stands by you in a crisis is a guy worth keeping; he is now Mr. B.
Anonymous
You guys had a rough month. I think your first step is to talk. Talk about whether you should take this job that requires you moving. Talk about his reaction. Listen to what he says.
Anonymous
When I see advice like this, it makes me think I must not be cut out for a relationship. I can totally see the value in this advice from a relationship preservation standpoint. But in OP’s shoes, I would hands down take the job. Not taking a job when I’m unemployed is not something that would be up for discussion with my SO, even if he were wonderful and treating me well. I certainly would not entertain the option of not taking a job for an SO who was being a DOOSH.
Anonymous
I think being in a relationship means you talk about your life choices. Not veto them, but discuss them. I don’t think a temporary job that requires moving away after only one month of unemployment is an obvious yes. Maybe in this case it is, maybe not, but worth discussing.
Pep
At the risk of sounding trite, he’s “showing you who he is.”
My XH ran or faded out at the first sign of trouble/difficulty in my life (when I needed him) several times when we were dating, and I didn’t heed the red flag. When things settled down, he’d be right back. We encountered some intense stress during our marriage (infertility/recurrent miscarriage) and sure enough, he bolted. Into the arms of a coworker.
I’d give serious consideration to letting him go.
Baconpancakes
This is a sucky situation, WK.
Overall, I agree that this isn’t the time to make decisions. My last breakup went pretty smoothly because I made my decision after a deliberative period, put my ducks in a row, cleared my calendar of anything stressful for a month, set up plans to see sympathetic friends, and took two days off work to get my head in order after the breakup. You might not be as much of a control freak as I am, but having nothing else distracting me from the issue at hand made it clear that I was obviously happier without him, and I made the right decision. No backtracking or second-guessing.
You say you’ve been together for 5 years and he’s not reacting well to a stressful situation, being unsympathetic and questioning your judgement for a non-related thing, so the question is whether this a dealbreaker or a PoA. Some people do blow up quickly, lose their cool, say things they don’t mean, and get over it to become helpful and supportive in a stressful time, particularly if they feel afraid or attacked (like he might be if he feels you’re effectively leaving him by taking this job). That’s a PoA situation. He can learn coping techniques, you can accept he’ll blow up and move past it, and you can both learn better communication and fighting techniques. But if he’s digging in his heels and being unhelpful because he doesn’t feel like he has to help, or being unsympathetic because he actually has a low opinion of you and isn’t “on Team WK,” that’s a dealbreaker.
Wildkitten
Thank you. This is really helpful analysis.
Anonono
My husband is not always great at phrasing things in a sensitive way, he can lose his temper in stressful situations, and he is impatient… BUT he has never left me feeling unsupported in a time of crisis. Our partnership is *about* supporting one another through thick and thin. In the past few years we’ve dealt with: a parent being severely injured (using FMLA time to help said parent transfer from assisted living back to own home); a temporary job for one of us, many time zones away; lack of jobs entirely; major uncertainty about our futures; pregnancy, childbirth, having an infant; a bittersweet cross country move; near $0 bank account balances; significant mental health issues; etc. Those are not dramatic, abnormal things — they’re just kind of part of life. There was a lot of questioning as we dealt with them, but we never doubted that we were on the same team. Do you want to go through those things with someone who you can’t rely on to support you in tough times? Either he needs to shape up, or you need to walk away.
nutella
FYI Kat, Insanity is very tough on your knees as it is and I believe you just had (knee?) surgery. I’d wait a few more months of PT before trying it.
Kat G
Thank you! I’m barely ready for any aerobic work so yes, definitely saving it for Future Kat. :)
nutella
I had knee surgery, too. When you are ready, may I suggest stationary bike (either the reclined or the standing one, depending on what feels more comfortable to you). It is great at strengthening your leg muscles to support your knee, which have definitely atrophied after your surgery. It took me over a year to be able to do exercises that were jumping-intensive and I was previously athletic and 25 at the time.
Anon
+1 – I broke my knee and had major surgery to repair it. I did lots of pilates, and then worked with a trainer on strength to build up muscle I lost while in recovery. Yoga, exercise bike (Exerpeutic was inexpensive and lightweight), weights, and walking.