ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 370 Comments

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Audrey Cashmere Sweater

A woman wearing a floral printed sweater and black pants

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

OK, I know that when you hear that Talbots has a lot of “sweaters with fun prints,” you’re probably feeling a little nervous, but hear me out here. The Audrey cashmere sweater is a longtime reader favorite and is available in a lot of truly great patterns, like the ivory and pink/purple one pictured here. Others, like this blue-and-white peony print remind me of some offerings I’ve seen at Vince in recent months.

I would grab one of these to wear with trousers on an casual in-office day or with jeans on the weekends.

The sweater is on sale for $139.30–$153.30 at Talbots and comes in misses sizes XS–XL, petite sizes P–XL, plus sizes X–3X, and plus petite sizes X–3X.

Hunting for more cashmere sweaters? Here are some of our longstanding favorites…

Some of the classic cashmere sweaters for work (as of 2024) include Nordstrom Cashmere, Quince ($50!), Vince, J.Crew, Naadam, Talbots, Lands' End, and Brooks Brothers. If you're looking for something fancier try TSE, Loro Piana, Akris, Autumn Cashmere, or (more casual) Jenni Kayne.

Mongolian cashmere tee in white and black stripes
Quince
A woman wearing an ivory cardigan, white top, and blue jeans
Veronica Beard
a silk-cashmere shawl sweater from Brooks Brothers
Brooks Brothers
A woman wearing a floral printed sweater and black pants
Talbots

And if you don’t like cashmere, we just did a roundup of 100% cotton sweaters!

Hunting for 100% cotton sweaters? As of 2024 we recommend J.Crew Factory, J.Crew, Quince, Amour Vert, Brooks Brothers, Barbour, and Amazon Essentials. For splurges, check out Molly Moorcamp or State of Cotton, as well as Frank & Eileen's Monterey sweater.

woman wears pretty green V-neck plain cotton sweater with green pants; the cotton sweater is thin enough to fit under a suit jacket
Amazon Essentials
woman wears ivory cableknit sweater with white pants
Amour Vert (exact)
woman wears 100% cotton twinset cardigan and shell; she is wearing navy with black
Brooks Brothers
beige sweater blazer with stripey tee and jeans
J.Crew Factory (exact)

Sales of note for 12.5

370 Comments

  1. Lovely pick-
    It is normal for couples to call each names like b#tch or c##t? Or FU? Trying to figure out if I too sensitive

    I don’t call him names or say cutting things. I DO get frustrated and DO ask him to do things differently but I don’t attack or try to hurt him

    Thank you –

    2. OMG! NEVER – I’ve had a challenging marriage at moments and we have done marriage counselling – it has always been made clear by our counsellors that name calling like that is unacceptable. I definitely called him a jerk a couple times in really bad moments but I never pretended it was okay.

    5. Wtf, no. Please don’t stay in a relationship with a man who speaks to you like that.

    7. The c-word is a hard line for me. I curse like a sailor, but I have probably only used that word once or twice in my entire life. If a significant other ever, ever called me that, especially in an attacking way, I’d be right out the door. Immediately. My husband and I have jokingly called each other b*tch or a**hole but always with a laugh. If this is your significant other that you are talking about, I would clearly and calmly tell him that he doesn’t get to call you those names or speak to you like that. If it continues, I’d be out.

      1. I curse like a sailor and have used that word only a handful of times in my life, to describe someone who takes particular delight in being cruel.

    9. DH and I never ever call each other names or curse at each other, no matter how heated the argument gets. We learned from our past relationships that it’s very difficult to come back from that.

      1. i agree with everyone in this thread, but will note that my husband and i do curse at each other, but it’s more like “you’ve got to be F’ing kidding me” and maybe “stop being a bitch about __” although i can’t remember any specific instances of the latter.

    10. It can be. It depends on the couple and the context.
      That said, if this bothers you then it is not ok and you need to speak up and take steps to make it stop.

    11. When piqued about something? No, absolutely not. Have you told him to stop? I would tell him – once, and only once – to cut out the insults.

      As a term of endearment? Maybe, if it is mutually understood and accepted in that light and you are cognizant of not subjecting an non-consenting external audience to something generally viewed as harsh and OTT.

    12. Nope. Also even if it were, it is ok to have boundaries and want to be treated well. And it really really isn’t.

      There is no coming back from this. He doesn’t respect you. You need to get out.

    15. No, never. You’re NOT too sensitive. This is NOT healthy. Please work to get out of this relationship.

    16. What the? No no no. Sweetie, honey, darling, yes. What you’re describing, absolutely not. Get out!

    17. No! Even in my previous marriage, crappy as it was, and with a lot of contempt on both sides, that never happened and never would have happened. It’s not good.

    18. Uhhhh absolutely not.

      My husband and I call each other “honey” or “sweetie” and I’ll occasionally call him “babe” (as in, “Babe, I think we’re out of milk.” We have never used pejorative names for each other – even in a fun, playful or joking way – in the 26 years we’ve been together.

      I think the c-word, especially, is disrespectful in the extreme. DTMFA, this is not okay.

    20. Also- it doesn’t matter if it’s “normal”. You are totally allowed to have boundaries about how you as a couple fight. No name calling, no swearing and no yelling are some very healthy boundaries.

      My husband and I absolutely had to learn how to fight fair with each other, but these were also one time conversations. I once said FU to him, he told me that wasn’t acceptable, I’ve never done it again. This isn’t a negotiation situation.

      2. Same. Been married almost 8 years now. Is it “normal” in that it’s very common- yes. But it’s not healthy.
        My husband is a saint about not cussing, and it’s a really bad habit I had during fights. I try to be much more mindful about it but there were definitely some FU moments in the past.

    22. My husband did call me a psycho b early on in our marriage during a few heated fights. We went for counseling and BOTH learned to fight. While his expression were ugly and angry, my part was going low and quiet below the belt. That said, he called me a b recently in a joking way and it was funny and appropriate in the context – kindof a reference to RBF. Definately not a regular thing even joking. We all learn our conflict styles from our unbringing and we can change them.

    23. This would be unacceptable to me, but I know people in relationships do it. Has it been going on long?

    24. No way. Like I will occasionally see those terms used in a mutually agreed way among friends – a la “boo you wh-re” from Mean Girls – but as a way to criticize or mock, NFW.

    25. if you’re married go to couples’ counseling, you need to learn how to fight like partners
      if you’re just dating, break up. you don’t want to marry a guy who fights like this.

    26. Extremely big red flag. I would be concerned about escalation as the relationship moves forward. Good indicator of possible physical abuse later.

    27. Definitely not normal or OK. Would you talk to your parents, siblings, or close friends like that? Yes everyone swears, but using those words as insults is not ok from a partner.

      1. Thank you all so very much for taking time to answer and share. I really am grateful. This is quite helpful

        Channeling our patron saint Senior Attorney- the only way out is through and this time next year I’m gonna feel so much better!

        2. You got this! I dated someone for 3 months. During our first fight, he called me a sack of sh*t and other choice curse words. I dumped him. That isn’t fighting fair. Now I’m married. Of course my husband and I have conflict. It’s only natural. He’s never once called me those words, and I can’t imagine cursing at him like that either.

          There’s a big difference between “what you did was sh*tty” and “you’re a sack/POS”.

          1. Just want to share this story in case it helps OP.

            In my early 20s, I was in a seriously bad relationship. Some folks may recognize this behavior – my boyfriend was the type that could not, ever, let me have the last word on anything, or “agree to disagree.” The fight was “over” when he had won complete capitulation from me to his point of view/ideas/opinions – and also apologized for A. having opinions that were not the same as his and B. “upsetting him” by not immediately agreeing with everything he said. And he would not let me break off conversations. If I hung up on him, he’d call back; if I stopped answering the phone, he’d show up at my apartment and bang on the door and yell until I let him in. If we were together and an argument started, he wouldn’t let me leave until I’d “heard his side” – repeatedly, over and over, until I just gave in and agreed with whatever he was saying. A couple of times it got physical, when I tried to get out the door and he blocked me physically (or pulled me back in the door).

            I had a male friend and was talking about relationships with him one day. I didn’t reveal much about my own. We were talking about fights, and I said something about yelling, and he said “well, but let’s face it – as adults, we really should be in control of ourselves even when we’re emotional, and not yell, and especially not do things like yell insults at the other person. That’s stuff kids do on the playground; it’s not how adults should handle disagreements. We need to treat our partners with respect, even when we disagree with them.”

            It was like a lightbulb came on for me. I had grown up in a dysfunctional home where my parents fought dirty – most of the time, not in front of us, but sometimes it was, and they would really hit below the belt. So that was my context for what “normal conflict resolution between partners” looks like. But it should not be like two kids screaming insults at each other. I would love to say “and that’s the day I broke up with Bad Boyfriend.” It wasn’t. But that’s the day I realized, this guy is not a good guy and I need to get out of this. And eventually I did. (And eventually I married my male friend’s best friend, who is a loving and kind and respectful person, but that’s another story for another day.)

            So OP – I hope you realize, reading this, that what’s happening to you is not normal. It’s not okay. You are worth more than this. And it is worth it to keep trying to get out. Big hugs. My thoughts and good energy are with you.

        3. Thinking of you and sending you so many good vibes. You deserve a real partner who adores you!

    28. I was married to one of the worst men in the world for 15 years, and even he only had the nerve to call me a b-itch ONE TIME and even he realized that in doing so he had crossed a big red line. So, no.

    29. In maybe our worst 3 fights in 16 years of marriage we may have said FU, but we have a fundamental understanding that we do not use this language towards the other person as a “normal” language in conflicts.

      The C word? Nope nope nope. I don’t think my husband has ever said the B word to me in a fight, or other demeaning words directed at females (including equivalents in our native language).

      The only somewhat “acceptable” situation for using those words I could think of would be in the bedroom when that’s both partners’ agreed thing.

  2. New homeowner question!

    Husband and I bought a house in Central Indiana with a crawl space (we get all 4 seasons). There was a small amount of mold that we had treated and had a vapor barrier installed. They also installed a wireless humidity reader so we can monitor humidity level remotely (48% currently).

    Is it worth also fully encapsulating the crawl space (sealing vents permanently and installing a commercial grade dehumidifer)? I appreciate any experience or input.

    1. No – those are mostly scams and can do more harm than good. Depending on how it’s built, it’s often better to have some air movement, rather than sealing everything up. If you’re not sure, pay for an evaluation by someone who doesn’t make their money selling encapsulation services.

    2. Not sure about the crawl space (we have a basement) but I’m also in central Indiana – hi!

    3. Also a central Indiana homeowner who had mold in a crawl space, and no. We had someone out for air quality testing and she said encapsulation was actually bad for home air quality.

    4. Yes, it is worth it and it’s a myth that you need “air flow” in a crawlspace, unless you live in a flood-prone area, then it’s not recommended. The science has evolved and a sealed crawlspace is now recommended over a vented/open crawlspace. EnergyStar has a good page on it – search for “EnergyStar Basement & Crawlspace Air Sealing and Insulating Project”. You wouldn’t leave your heat/AC on in your house and open all the windows; same thing in a crawlspace – you don’t want it open to the outside air when you are trying to heat, cool, keep your house less humid, etc.

      I have a crawl space that came with a vapor barrier; it was disgusting down there – the temperature varied like crazy, it smelled awful, and it made the house/floors colder, even with a fully insulated attic (3 ft of blown-in onsulation). Last winter, I had the whole thing encapsulated and a dehumidifier installed, and it’s been great. The air stays a constant temperature down there now and the air quality is much better. When the heat comes on, the heat coming from the floor vents is actually warm now. My heating costs have gone down significantly. However you do need a dehumidifier if you seal the crawl space, otherwise you can get mold growth, rot, etc. In the summer, the house was less humid and cooler in general.

      There was only 1 company in my area who did quality crawlspace encapsulation. They were a nightmare to deal with and it was not cheap (I think all in, it was around $8k) but I’m glad I did it.

    5. Hello to the Central Indiana corporettes!

      I’m in one of the college towns within an hours drive from Indy!

  3. What current footwear works with socks? I can’t believe it’s anything but boots. We see so much ankle now but I hate cold feet.

    Also, so many sling backs! I wonder if they only go with bare feet? Or maybe sheer black hose? I can’t see tights and sling backs working as a look (also, so much clonking on steps).

    I hate to bail into tights this early but with boots at least I can get away with socks.

    1. Following with interest! I have spent hours browsing all the shoe offerings, buying, and returning way too many options. I just want something work appropriate that works with thicker socks for this winter, comes in black (real) leather, has low to no heel, does not cause foot pain, is not frumpy, costs less than my student loan payment, and preferably has no zippers (although I am willing to bend on that one if it checks all the other boxes).

      1. Chelsea boots from any number of actual winter brands – Sorel, La Canadienne, Blondo, etc – are your answer here. Rag and Bone and See by Chloe also have some cute offerings.

    2. I wear socks with loafers and oxfords when the weather gets cold. Honestly I think loafers without socks look funny when it’s coat weather. (I wear black trouser socks w my black loafers.) If that’s too frumpy for you, I think oxfords always look good with socks, especially thinner black socks w black shoes.

    5. I wear socks with nearly everything. I’m sure that’s not “fashion foward”, but it is what works for my feet.

    6. For me it is not a question or shoes but of pants. If I am wearing a full length pant leg, I wear trouser socks with anything that covers the top of my foot (so no ballet flats) and both my toes and heels. Right now that is mostly loafers of various types but oxfords and elevated sneakers also work. You can really only see the sock if you look carefully or I am sitting.

      But full disclosure, I am in my 50s, hate the feeling of bare feet in most shoes and mourned the death of visible hosiery. I think wearing heavy shoes with shorter pants made me look silly (like hooves!). I might be the only person alive who really liked panty hose (unless the temperatures went over 80) and am watching Instagram ads for “sheer tights” hoping it actually becomes a thing in the US since the only place I have seen it in person is Europe. Which is all to say I am definitely not the most fashion forward of people.

      1. I liked panty hose, too. They made my legs looked better plus they helped me keep warm.

    7. I wear the thinnest compression socks I can find. I love compression socks and wish I could find more reasons to wear them in warm weather! (currently only on flights, but I have high hopes for my very old ladyhood)

        1. Late reply, sometimes I wear the nude pantyhose type ones from the drugstore, otherwise I wear patterned knee socks from Sockwell, which I wear all winter.

  4. I need recs for a makeup wipe – I have been using the Almay ones forever and I like them since they are v small, but they changed the formula and now they’re not working as well for getting mascara all the way off. Ideas? TIA!

    1. Neutrogena works well. But the eraser cloths are a game changer. Love them.

      I still like wipes for cleaning up errors during makeup application, using just the corner..

    2. Micellar water. I like the Bioderma brand. I get it at Target. Got the rec from someone here once upon a time. I’m a convert from using wipes – I find it must gentler on my skin and takes everything off no problem.

    3. Love my Burt’s Bees rosewater micellar wipes. While I normally like all things Neutrogena, their wipes makes my eyes sting.

    4. I tried and liked the Cerave makeup wipes after they stopped making my favorite makeup remover lotion. Now I use Neutrogena’s Micellar Milk I think, but the Cerave wipes are also good.

    5. Highly recommend miscellar water instead, unless you’re using the wipes on the road.

      I like Sali Hughe’s comparison of makeup wipes to baby wipes – fine to freshen up, but not to replace actually taking a shower.

      I’ve started travelling with a mini or decanted bottle of miscellar water, cotton rounds and wash cloth

    6. I bought the ones from MAC on a whim, and they’re the only ones that have really worked on eye makeup. They’re micellar wipes, called Gently Off. I think the secret is to just press them into eye makeup for something like 20 seconds without rubbing, then the makeup comes right off.

      That said, I usually just use a balm cleanser. Makeup wipes are only for rare occasions.

    8. please do not use makeup wipes. it’s such an easy place to pick something reusable. find a pack of the kind you can wash.

  5. I was previously team leather backpack, but mine is dying and I need a replacement that is lightweight and will fit 1) a heavy/thick 14 in laptop, 2) paperback book, 3) a 8×11.5 spiral bound notebook, 4) wallet, 5) pouch of odds and ends, and 6) lunch.

    I commute on foot/public transit and the leather backpack is just too heavy. Thanks!

      1. I really like my topo designs backpack – I have it in plain colors (black and grey) with the y hook. I think the square profile reads a little more polished than a bag shape. Absolutely indestructible too

      1. + 1. I’m shocked at how much it holds. I normally carry all the thinks you mentioned, and can even fit in a change of clothing

    4. I would recommend going in person to an REI or travel/luggage store if you can!
      I love the REI Co-op Beyonder Pack- it’s fairly sleek and has a great laptop sleeve.

  6. Low stakes question for a rainy Wednesday morning: I will have half a day to myself in NYC in a few weeks and would like to see some stores that I can’t visit in other US cities, like Bergdorf’s. Debating Sezane, although I don’t think I’m their demographic, am over MM LaFleur,, and may hit No. 6 Clogs. Where else would you be sure to hit up?

    1. Muji! The best stationery– specifically gel pens. They’re the favorite of practically every writer I know. They have lots of other stuff too but the stationery is where I stock up.

    2. I saw Candace Bushnell at Bergdorf’s once. That whole block is amazing.

      Any location of Gray’s Papaya. It’s just such a wild and historic place. Also, just kicking around anywhere b/w Washington Square Park down to Soho — so much amazing neighborhood feel even if half the stores exist in your local mall.

      1. Fwiw, Nolita is now more ‘indie’ (ish) of a shopping area vs. Soho. Nolita is also super cute to walk around and has lots of brick and mortar locations for online brands like Printfresh, Rothys, etc. Bergdorfs is AMAZING if you care at all about perfume, makeup, or jewelry they have some of the best counters.

        1. Oh, I love Nolita also. Soho just has such a sense of place with the iron facades. If any other place out there still is built like that, I’d be interested to go there (work takes me to a lot of US cities).

      1. Aritzia is in most large US cities.

        OP, maybe consider:
        – Scanlan Theodore
        – Argent
        – Altuzarra
        – Frances Valentine

        And I second the recommendation for ABC Carpet.

  7. I generally hold myself to the rule that no one should start eating until everyone at the table is served. In the situation where one person’s meal is taking an exceptionally long time to come from the kitchen, or some other situation that leaves one person without a meal in front of them, is it not incumbent on that person to encourage others to start their meals while they are hot? I’m not talking formal dining, more so casual restaurants with family or colleagues. Also curious how you apply this to dinner at home – if a member of the family will be late to the table when dinner is served, should that family member encourage others to start without them? Recently I’ve seen a whole range of behaviors that don’t seem to align with the usual wait until everyone is served/please start routine – from people starting their meals as soon as their own plate touches down, to those who will be late to the table never giving the please start without me cue.

    1. My family never followed that rule. I had to learn it from my friends when I got old enough to go to their houses for dinner or to restaurants. But yes, the person who is waiting should encourage others to eat.

    3. Why so formal at home? (Assuming you mean immediate family, not a family gathering.) I am going to plate my food and eat.

      1. If it is a special occasion meal, a holiday, or a gathering, or a birthday, it is always appropriate to wait. Even for family weeknight dinners I asked my kids and others to wait as they would finish a meal in 3 minutes and want to leave. If dinner is short, being together is important–to me.

        1. This is how we handle it, too.

          I also think it’s much easier having mostly the same rules and table manners at home and outside.

      2. I don’t consider that formal, but rather basic politeness. To me, the general purpose of eating together is to do that together. If everyone is just grabbing plates to go do homework, etc., then no, but if you are at the table together, then yes. Practicing manners in the home makes them natural outside the home.

        1. Agreed. I am so grateful my parents did this for me at home growing up.
          And now, when I and/or my BF cook, it is so much trouble that I want to appreciate the meal and the effort and the shared experience/ focused togetherness.

      3. It’s rude to the cook. 90% of the time the person who cooked the meal is still running around. I’ve taught my kids you wait until the cook is seated.

        If someone is just lollygagging about coming to the table, which is ruder, it’s fine to start without them. But we wait for the cook.

      4. This is not formal. It’s a baseline level of poltieness.

        My parents taught me basic table manners as a kid and we ate dinner together most nights and I’m frankly shocked by how many people didn’t seem to grow up in households where they learned those things.

    4. I agree with you. If it’s a moment, wait h til everyone has their food (server places everyone’s plates or returns to the kitchen for the second round, everyone has sects themselves at a family dinner). Otherwise, “please start without me” is a basic courtesy.

      Since I’m a vegetarian, I often have a separate meal that can come out much later. I just take whatever sides are available and tell everyone to start eating.

    5. If someone’s not there, I don’t know how they’re supposed to tell you to go ahead and eat. I just eat without people who can’t bother to show up on time.

      1. Just adding, obviously this is situation dependent, but I’m thinking of the perpetually late guest or someone who just refuses to come to the table even though everyone else is ready to eat.

    7. The person who is waiting should encourage others to eat in situations where the rule is that no one should start eating until everyone is served.

      There are some cultures and cuisines where that is not the norm (the norm is to begin eating at once, the instant the dish touches the table, and the polite thing to do is for the person whose dish arrives first to encourage everyone else at the table to taste it).

    8. At the restaurant, we wait unless someone’s meal is delayed and that person encourages others to start. At home, my husband has that habit of sitting down and then getting back up because he forgot his drink/hot sauce/turning off hood fan/adjusting the lights/sharp knife. If I’m hungry, I may or may not have the patience to wait for him to start.

    9. If I am cooking a family meal, everyone had d*mn well better wait for me to sit down before starting to eat. Otherwise, I know lots of people who eat in shifts (kid dinner with later adult dinner) due to differing work or activity schedules. But if you are eating together, I feel like it’s a kindness to the people you’re with to eat together, especially if one of those people also cooked the meal.

      1. Exactly with regard to being the cook. I can’t imagine why this is hard for people to understand.

    10. I was raised with this rule and now have a husband who, I kid you not, can take a whole 5 minutes to make his plate, find a cup for water, decide he doesn’t want water with dinner, get distracted and then sit down at the table.

      1. Exactly! This is my mother, who I should point out is the one person who does not cook when we have family meals together, but is still completely incapable of sitting down to the table because she has decided she has to check on 15 other things that absolutely to not need to be checked on at exactly the time that everyone else wants to eat, or walk out the door, or do anything else on a schedule. It’s completely infuriating. I joke that half the reason I married my husband is that we both do things exactly when we say we’ll do them, none of this nonsense of making the entire family spend their whole day waiting for you.

        1. My MIL does this when eating at our house (I’m cooking). I chalk it up to a subconscious desire to be in charge.

      2. Yeah, my exception to this rule is if I’m the one who cooked and I gave someone (my husband) a few minutes of notice that dinner was going to be ready soon and he’s still wandering around after I’m seated and ready to eat then I’m not waiting on him.

    11. I was raised that no one eats until the hostess picks up her fork. When there’s not a defined hostess then you wait until everyone has their food. If my food is late I always tell people to go ahead but I am personally uncomfortable eating while someone is still waiting.

      But really this is the restaurant’s fault not the diners. I’m much more annoyed by an establishment that is in the business of serving people food not complying with basic etiquette than I am with someone who didn’t learn table manners for whatever reason. Everyone’s food should be delivered at the same time. It’s rude to serve all but one person. All plates should be removed at the same time. It’s rude to clear plates while someone is still eating.

      Also table manners are class indicators. I feel it’s classist to judge someone based on table manners.

      1. When I cook or host, I call people to the table before it is ready so they can dilly dally and get their drinks. I want them to eat when served so it is nice and hot even if I am not sitting yet. And I don’t want to wait for you if I am in a restaurant because I want my food hot. But that should never happen in a decent restaurant.

      3. Ever worked in a restaurant? Unless it’s a fine dining establishment, they’re busy trying to get everything prepared and out the door and really don’t have time to figure that out. And if all but one diner’s plates are ready to go out, they will either cool off or dry out under a heat lamp if they wait for the final plate. And then people complain about their meal not being fresh.

    12. We did not follow this rule in my house growing up. Most meals were served family style and we’d pass the dishes around or reach to pots or pans in the middle and people would just start eating when they got what they want. Of course we did wait for everyone to be served in restaurants, and I agree that if someone’s meal is delayed in a restaurant they should tell everyone else to start. But that’s also a situation where you’re being served a plated meal. If we were all going through a buffet line and arriving back at the table at different times, we wouldn’t wait for each other then either.

      I’d be curious which cultures encourage eating as soon as the food is set in front of you, as a poster above alluded to. The American culture to wait almost certainly comes from a European background, and while it’s considered polite here, that doesn’t mean that’s true everywhere!

    13. We say grace at home (three kids, 10, 12, 14) so we wait until everyone is seated and one of the parents has said “let’s say grace”, but not until everyone has served themselves. If someone is late (usually because they are coming home from practice), we say grace without them. If someone is late because they are taking extra time (bathroom etc.) we start without them. Extended family does not say grace (on either side) so they are constantly eating as soon as food hits their plate.

      Same thing at a restaurant – our nuclear family does not eat until everyone is served, but the person who does not have food is supposed to encourage the others to eat. Extended family does not abide by this rule, and it drives me crazy, but all I can do is train my kids.

      1. It’s a little rude to imply that your extended family is rude by not waiting until you say grace to start eating. Maybe they think you’re rude for engaging in a practice that would delay the start of the meal. I personally think it’s super weird to say grace in a situation where not everyone participates. Just say it silently in your head, if you must.

        1. I don’t love it when I cook for people who say grace and thank sky daddy for the food I just spent an hour plus making for them. If you’re gonna thank someone, shouldn’t it be the person who made it for you?

          1. Oh my goodness. I would certainly expect them to thank their Heavenly Father AND the cook!!

          2. +1 my MIL constantly thanks sky daddy for my work and my accomplishments. It drives me bonkers

          3. I don’t say grace anymore but was raised with family who did and we definitely thanked both!

    14. Both cultural and class markers here. In a middle class Scandi context:

      At home or a private party, if there is six people or more at the table, you start eating a hot main as soon as it’s served. For a cold starter or dessert, you’ll wait until your group of six people have been served, but not the next six. Eye contact within the group, then cutlery in hand. Same for pours of wine and cheers.

      At a restaurant where orders for the meal has been taken at the same time, you’ll expect them to be served as closely together as practically possible. The people who get their meal first will be asked to start by the others, to eat while it’s hot, and you will (slowly), unless you can see servers with the last plates coming.

      At a restaurant where people are not really eating a common meal, ordering staggered or separately (which would be rude towards the staff), you’d eat at the same time as whoever ordered at the same time. You would not let a hot meal go cold, but the idea of ordering at separate times is very alien, and very rude, unless it’s cafeteria style where you go separately anyway.

  8. there was a thread yesterday about looking for sweaters that aren’t brown or grey or beige…in addition to this post’s recs, I wanted to mention that there are some actual colors at BR factory right now. The “coveted sweater” in particular comes in a fair number of nice non-neutral colors, and there are some others as well (even if all the featured model shots are black or camel sweaters).

    1. I haven’t looked recently, but I found a few at Gap Factory last winter, so I’m hoping that’ll be a good source again.

    3. I’m looking for a dark true red cardigan if anyone has any specific recommendations. Not burgundy. Red. Any fabric is usually fine with me.

  9. Does anyone have a recommendation for a caregiver support group for relatives assisting with dementia-related issues? I think the Alzheimer’s Association and other very large organizations have some, but are they any good? I’d be interested in a small-ish Zoom support group and not some massive corporate-y group. I mostly want to hear from other people about strategies that have worked for communicating with relatives with dementia and also tips for managing the frustrations.

    1. With the background that I’m in the middle of this too, it’s something I’d think hard about before spending more time in dementia and caregiving land. You run the risk of having it consume your entire life by spending even more time in it. I’d make a conscious effort to retain your life, talk to your friends about other things and not let your life become all about this. I know it’s not what you asked but it’s something you might need to hear.

      1. I appreciate why you’re saying it, but no, that’s not where I’m at and it’s not what I need to hear.

      2. This kind of advice always makes it seem like people just choose to let hardship consume their lives. I guess there are people who do this? But I think it’s far more common that people just end up drowning sometimes when it’s all too much. And I think support can actually help people avoid that outcome.

        1. It’s fine if it’s not for OP, but I’m also in the middle of it and yes, it can consume your life. I personally don’t think that adding more time focusing on it is helpful mentally, we only get so many hours in a week and I’m more refreshed when I spend that precious time doing anything but thinking about it.

          1. I think your advice isn’t relevant to the question being asked. That’s fine if it works for you, but it’s better to answer people’s questions and trust that they know what they need.

      3. In response to Anon @ 9:51, I spent 10 years taking care of my mother through a critical illness and, at the end, cancer. I would have given anything for a support group, which was non-existent in my area. “Talking to friends about other things” was absolutely depressing to me because I was the first of my friends to go through caring for a parent and quite honestly, my friends did. not. get. it. Sometimes you just need to be with people who are going through the same thing you are. It’s not letting it “consume your entire life” or “letting your life become all about this.” It’s about finding the support you need from people who are walking the same path and who understand what you are going through and who can help you find the solutions you need.

        1. I haven’t been in the position of taking care of a parent but I sure could use an in-person support group for people who are parenting kids with some exceptional needs. My friends absolutely do not get it, and talking to them makes me feel lonelier. They don’t know what they don’t know.

      4. Some people may need the support of a group to help process feelings and obtain coping strategies. Helping a parent/relative with dementia is so hard. Regardless, your point about making a conscious effort to carve out time for yourself is a good one. I realized that taking care of a parent was consuming me, which led me to stop exercising and made me resentful. Making sure I take care of myself has made me a better caregiver.

    2. I would check with local churches. Our church has a dementia caregiver support group that welcomes people of all faiths. A church-based group will generally be smaller and more personal. Look for one of the non-evangelical mainline Protestant denominations, which are less likely to proselytize in this type of group.

      1. Ditto, but I’d look first for groups at Episcopal churches. Our church has one as well – think of it as a group that happens to meet in a church.

    3. I’ve recommended this book often on this site because it helped me tremendously with my mother while she was still ambulatory and verbal (and continues to help me while she is not): “Spectrum of Hope”.

      There are big developments going on in this field. Not sure where you’re located, but I like this new startup in NY called Lizzy Care because they offer coaching services by people who have already gone through this process or have experience working with people with dementia. I have also met a lot of service providers through people who help locate senior living arrangements. Often, they offer consulting help well before families are ready for any type of move, and they can plug you into their vetted caregivers, etc. There are senior daycare facilities that also know of good support networks. And a friend of mine whose husband had Frontal Temporal Dementia found a Facebook support group to be her lifeline. Our family never committed to a formal group through one of the larger organizations, but we liked knowing they were available.

    4. My local community hospital had one. It wasn’t specific to dementia, but at the time I needed it, it was about 35% dementia care givers so our issues were addressed. It was run by a social worker.

    5. I’ve done a local Alzheimer’s Association group and it was very good. At the time I participated it was in person but I think they switched to zoom during the pandemic.

      1. +1

        I joined the biggest local Alzheimer’s support group at one of our major medical center hospitals. It was fantastic for me, and a huge source of support. I stopped during Covid but I kept meaning to join a zoom one….

        just go. don’t worry about which one/where. Any is better than none, and no one understands like someone else in the middle of this. For me, it kept me going.

        good luck. I’m so sorry your family is going through this.

    6. Thanks all! I didn’t think about local churches, but that might be a good idea – there are several nearby.

      1. i didn’t find our local community/church based support groups helpful. they were often geared to much older folks (spouses/windows etc…), small and more friendship/social gathering type atmosphere, or too religious for my tasted. I need honesty, trust, support and comfort …… while getting down and dirty in it. The Alzheimer’s association ones know how to do that best.

  10. Anybody have any insight on GRSM? Looking to lateral from a govt position. Billables, reasonable salary, etc? I am the equivalent of senior counsel/partner level in my agency.

    2. Which office? There is quite a lot of variation because of the authority given to the managing partners of certain offices.

      1. Agree. I work there. Billables are 1900. Not sure about salary. My initial offer was low but I was able to negotiate up quite a bit. My understanding is everything varies wildly by office, managing partner, and practice group.

      2. If you are not comfortable saying which office I can tell you what to look for as a general matter:
        (1) Billables are 1900 and they mean it.
        (2) At least in my office it is generally understood that pay is 20% below market. But they will allow 100% remote work. Most, although not all, partners allow a high degree of flexibility. As long as you get your work done and make your hours, they are not going to be looking to see if your Teams circle is green. A lot of parents really appreciate that. However, turnover is very high because people stay a few years for the experience and then leave for more money. Senior people (senior counsel and junior partners) are buried because of the lack of mid-level associates. Ask about how many people they have and how long they have been there. If they have a lot of partners and very few associates that tells you this office has that problem.
        (3) There is a lack of support staff but if you are coming from government that might not be an issue for you.
        (4) Be aware they have a lot of levels of “partner” and at the lowest they are basically associates with a higher billing rate and no power.

        But again, this is very, very office dependent. In newer offices outside California, GRSM tended to absorb smaller firms and gives the partners in those offices a fair amount of autonomy. Partners with large books of business and multiple associates have a lot of discretion. And just like everywhere else, some of the partners are amazing, supportive and kind and some are . . . not.

  11. Lip Treatment, mask, or balm suggestion? Face SPF suggestions?

    Current daily spf is a matte neutrogena that leaves a white cast and clumps up in creases. I dont do foundation or concealer.

    Ive had bad reactions to trying to use waxy balm formulas in the past (Burts Bees, EOS, and Chapstick). Vasiline for lips didnt do anything for me besides feel thick, though some people swear by it.

    I have Friday off with a crappy weather forcast so my plan is to do a spin through the mall and will be popping into the Sephora and nearby Ulta.

      1. Very, very thin layer of Aquaphor at night. Akar lip butter is one that I have received through some subscription boxes (never bought directly from their website) that I really, really like. Sugar is go-to Sephora lip balm purchase. I can’t speak to it specifically, but I did see on here recently people commenting that Korean or other Asian sunscreen is the way to go to avoid the white cast/clumps in creases problem.

    2. I like First Aid Beauty Weightless Liquid Mineral Sunscreen but it depends on what you’re looking for in terms of weight, color, dryness, matte/sheen, etc. I suggest you look at YouTube reviews where the reviewer tries on different sunscreens and gives their views.

    3. Laneige Lip Mask is my go-to, I even use it on my kids. Nothing else really softens that super dry lip skin.

      1. +1. It’s one of the only skincare products that I saw immediate results from after one use.

      2. Laneige is the best hands down. Buy a multi pack or gift set from the upcoming holiday season.

    5. I have also had reactions to chapstick, Burts Bees, EOS, etc. I’ve also been on prescription lip treatments. I’ve used Laneige Lip Mask at night for the past 4 or 5 years and nothing has worked as well. I rarely need something during the day these days but like plain aquaphor in a pinch or use Laneige during the day. A container lasts me forever.

    6. Jolse (.com) is having a HUGE halloween sale atm so I plan to stock up on cleaners, sunblock, cleansing oils and moisturizers. I really like the isntree one and it’s down to $8 right now. It’s a bit more glowy which is great for me in my 40s. Biore, Missha, and Cosrx are also super reliable ones.

    8. I use lanolips at night and as long as I’m diligent about it (i.e., don’t get lazy and skip 3 days) it keeps my lips extremely soft and smooth. It can remedy my dry/chapped lips from skiing/hiking out west in 1-2 days. I don’t even need to put it on during the day-just at night before bed. I’ve never had such great results with other lip balms, even when I put them on frequently during the day. It is fairly thick, but you can apply a thicker or thinner layer. It’s also a bit pricey, but for me it’s worth the cost because it’s the only thing I use and it actually works. And because I can leave it on my night stand, I’m not losing them all the time!

  12. Family photo question. We’re having photos done later this week. I had already planned on wearing a sweater and jeans, but I’m stuck between 1) a basic crewneck in a flattering color. Boring, but gets the job done. 2) A looser, more current sweater style in a color that I love.

    What has me hesitating on sweater #2 is that last year, I wore a loose, flowy dress for family photos, thinking it would be super flattering. It was not. It looked very cute in person but it did not photograph well at all. I looked so frumpy. I already am self-conscious about the pandemic weight that I never lost. Talk me into, or out of, either sweater option. I just want to look and feel good, as having current photos is important to me.

    1. I’d do #1 – wear what flatters you!
      I’m also a person who looks much better in jeans than flowy dresses (at least in photos). Drives my photographer up the wall, because she has a very twee aesthetic and loves photographing women in prairie dresses, but sorry not sorry I’m going to wear what flatters my body, not what fits into her Pinterest board.

      1. I commented below, but I think this is part of my frustration. My photographer is fantastic and thankfully doesn’t push a particular aesthetic. But I go online for inspiration, and it’s all these long-haired gorgeous boho women. I am not that person, and it’s really discouraging to think that I don’t “deserve” to look nice, too. My style has always veered more toward classic shapes and styles, and I think they look better on me. But that’s considered boring or not current or whatever terms are thrown around in fashion world (including here).

        1. It’s fine to dress like yourself! Jeans and sweaters aren’t trendy, but also won’t look outdated in a few years. I think you’re overthinking it. Wear what makes you feel good.

    3. Sweaters are the worst possible choice for a flattering photo. Most flattering options have more structure. A blazer over a blouse with jeans would be better. A fit and flare dress is also a good option (dresses can be tough if they’re too voluminous everywhere, but a dress that fits well and narrow on top looks good on many people). Stick to darker colors over lighter colors.

        1. That’s barely flattering on the model, it’s too thick and loose. I’d keep looking.

        3. That color is nice, but it’s going to look bulky in a photo. It looks bulky on the size 0 model, so it’ll definitely not be the look you’re after if you’re a mere mortal.

    5. Have you tried taking cell phone pictures of both outfits? Obviously your family photos are going to be a better and more skilled, but that should still give you a rough idea of what is going to be flattering or not flattering in pictures.

      I like the idea of the second option – you just sound more excited about it and I think that will come through in the photos.

    6. Have someone take full body cell phone pictures of you in each outfit and choose whichever photographs best.

    7. I vote for classic fitted sweater. You already know you don’t like how slouchy garments photograph. Don’t double down!

      1. +1. Through hard-won experience, I have learned that I look better in photos when I wear more fitted clothing. If I wear “loose and breezy” clothes I end up looking like I’m twice as large as I really am. We just did family photos and I wore a fitted dark red top and straight-leg jeans and I’m pretty happy with how they came out. Could you wear a turtleneck and a blazer with jeans or a turtleneck and some kind of vest, not a puffer but one of the thinner fleece or quilted sporty vests? Volume is not your friend when it comes photo-taking time.

      2. Yes, I think you’re right. I would rather have a slightly boring outfit than one that’s unflattering. I get frustrated because I go online for inspiration and everything is these beautiful, waify boho moms in flowing dresses or lots layers that would just add bulk to my mid-sized body. I am just not that longhaired gorgeous fantasy mom. I am a jeans and sweater mom.

        1. This is exactly why I wear jeans and sweaters in our annual family photos. I want to look like myself and not like I’m playing dress-up. It’s ok to be yourself!

        2. Hey, I wore jeans and a sweater for my family photos and thought I looked pretty good! You want to notice your faces in photos, not your outfits.

        3. If you’re on instagram, I would find some mid-size influencers to follow to get the waify boho moms out of your brain. It’s been the best change I have made in the last eyar.

    8. My philosophy is that if drop shoulder sweaters flatter someone, they know. It helps to be very slim and have broad shoulders.

    9. Try a tailored button down blouse, with princess seams to add shape, and a quiet print. Wear pants that match the dominant color of the blouse to create that “column of color” that gives a long line. Be well groomed, hair, earrings, nails, etc, and love yourself.

  13. At a family gathering this weekend, my boyfriend made some comments that I am still struggling with. He has 2 kids, 10 and 12. I do not have kids because I was focused on my career until it was too late. My parents were both teachers though and I have a tremendous amount of respect and empathy for teachers.

    My boyfriend apparently told his son’s teacher – in person – that he didn’t care what was good or helpful to her. He only cared about what was good for his son. He told her that he expected her focus to be on what was good for his son, and that if she didn’t like it she could quit and find a different job. Both kids were at the table during this discussion. I almost got up to leave but we were out with extended family and I did not want to cause a scene.

    We both have Ivy degrees so I never expected valuing education and respecting teachers would be a values challenge. How do I approach this issue with my boyfriend? It feels like a game-changer in how I should view him, not just as an individual but also as a parent.

    1. Is there context to this? Was she basically like “I have tenure and union protection so tough luck”?

    2. He sounds selfish, I can’t imagine taking the “it’s about me” approach in a communal situation, which is what school is. The respect thing isn’t good either, but his attitude would be concerning. You’re allowed to leave. To take on two step kids too, he’d have to be perfection in a human. I’d toss this fish back.

    3. If he has this much contempt for teachers, I find it hard to believe he doesn’t look down on anyone in a field that he considers less. How does he treat servers, cashiers, tradesman? This would be a deal breaker for me

    4. That kind of selfish attitude will appear in more than one area… I find that so unappealing that I’d consider breaking up.

      1. This exactly. I’d get out. You’re also not going to like those kids after they’ve gone through this grooming.

        1. Exactly. This guy is doing a copy paste paste of himself, and that’s not a good thing.

    6. What is the context for this? My parents are college professors who have a tremendous amount of respect for educators, but they had some pretty serious battles with some of my K-12 teachers. The worst fight was with a 5th grade teacher who accused me of plagiarism because she didn’t believe I could write that well. That really set my parents off, as you can probably imagine. But unless there’s context that makes his fury at the teacher understandable, this seems like a big red flag.

      1. Most of my kids’ teachers have been quite good, a few were adequate, and there was at least one who shouldn’t be in teaching. While I think that education has a higher-than-average level of dedicated people, it’s a profession and in most professions, there is a range of competency.

        Unfortunately, sometimes that results in pretty intense conflict. My sister had a language teacher that routinely failed upwards of 80% of the class, and the principal claimed that he was powerless since the language teacher had tenure. My parents had to take it up the school district hierarchy pretty far and had to be pretty vocal about their displeasure.

        1. Even if it’s a not so great teacher, “your priority should be MY child” isn’t how you go about this.

        2. That principal wasn’t doing their job. There are lots of things they could have done (including changing the students’ grades), they just didn’t want to.

    7. How does he behave when he disagrees with you? This sounds like it goes beyond valuing teachers to being able to treat people with respect when he has a a disagreement. He sounds like a jerk.

    8. Holy sh!t, that would be a dealbreaker. Sorry to say, his kids are one of many. I would not tolerate someone for a second who thought it was okay to talk to a teacher that way.

      1. +100000000

        there seems to be a reason this guy is someone’s ex. She’s now living her best life, and you took her place in hell.

    10. was there an incident that prompted the discussion where he felt that she chose to do what was best for her over her students?

      in the abstract, i don’t disagree that teachers, while teaching, should choose what’s better for the students over what’s easy for the teachers… there are so many people teaching off other people’s lesson plans, and grading is mostly done by computer these days… I even know English teachers who make kids do peer grading before the teacher will look at essays.

      1. Peer grading (when done well and on low-stakes assignments) can be a tool to help students better understand material and provide feedback. It can also save teachers time. As a former high school teacher, grading an assignment that “just” took one minute per student would mean over two hours of work for my 135ish students! Now multiply that by every homework assignment and small task in a normal week.

        And most choices aren’t an either/or in terms of whether it’s better for students or teachers. And something that might be better for one kid might not be better for the other kids in the room. These things aren’t so binary. Trust me, a completely burned-out adult isn’t going to do their job as well.

    11. Is this some very special private school, is the kid somehow needy of individual attention, and can your BF do anything to the teacher? It’s a bit situational but I think that it is very different if the kid is, say autistic or T1 diabetic and has legit needs that are very different from other kids, vs just some little jackass kid of a jackass parent. Also, I imagine teacher has seen this a million times and doesn’t care unless the BF is some head of school in a private school that could actually do this.

      Ugh. I’m used to this from Mom-sters but had hoped that the dads of the world would be busy working and not micromanaging their middle schooler. Future Varsity Blues Round 2 defendant here.

    12. He’s showing you who he is, which is a selfish jerk. If you stay with him, someday he will act this disrespectfully towards you and you’ll think back to this moment. My ex-H was like this — kind towards people he cared about who were close to him, and a jerk to everyone else. Everything was fine until one day I was moved from the former column to the latter, and now he’s my ex.

    13. You kind of need the context. I agree kids come first. I don’t think this is a problem. I’d kind of admire it TBH. Many teachers are not that great.

      1. This! Was it “I don’t care that you don’t like doing X thing that you are supposed to be doing” or was it “I don’t care that there are 25 other kids in the class”? One of those things is justified. One of them is not.

        Because I will be super honest – I had almost that exact discussion with one of my kid’s teachers when she was refusing to follow the district approved curriculum because she preferred to do it another way. That way was not working for my kid (recent research shows it was not working for many, many kids) and I did not care what her personal preferences were. I wanted my kid to learn to read.

      3. Wow. This kind of thinking is so toxic. We live in a society, you have to care about other people, that’s how it works. When you don’t you get the hellhole we’re all currently living in. Thanks for making it worse.

    14. I really don’t like how he talked to her just in terms of how one should talk to anyone working a difficult job. I guess this feels like the “how does he talk to the waitress” test to me!

      I’m still kind of curious what the teacher was saying, and to me you sound a bit sheltered when you associate “valuing education” and “respecting and having empathy for teachers” as if teachers always value education themselves. I’ve never felt that it was fair to the good teachers I’ve had to pretend that they didn’t stand out. So I’m more open to the possibility that the school or the teacher have a problem, but I don’t think that justifies the way he addressed it.

      1. Agreed — manners to wait staff is a deal-breaker (or caused me to really reconsider one co-worker).

        My kids have had some rotten teachers, but this is not the way to handle that.

      2. Fully concur. I also believe that if teachers want to be treated as professionals, they need to understand how professionals in the corporate world operate.

        I am an in house attorney and am acutely aware that I have both internal and external customers. I can definitely see situations in which it would be reasonable for me to say “X process is the easiest for our department and Y could create massive headaches and backlogs,” and that it would then be completely reasonable to insist on X.

        I can also see situations in which the response of “I don’t care what’s easiest for you; I care about what is good for the external customer” would be appropriate.

        1. Professional doesn’t equal corporate world though. There’s many professionals who don’t utilize corporate norms and standards because their work is mission focused, not profit focused.

          1. But you’re missing that educating all students is the stated goal, which does not mean you can process them like you are on an assembly line.

            Signed,
            Mom of kid in middle school math class of 60ish kids spread across 2 rooms with 1 teacher (when he’s there; often he just sends links to YouTube and has a sub proctor both rooms); I get this in 2020 but not in 2023 although I will acknowledge that many people who could teach Algebra 1 choose the corporate world b/c no one’s dad is coming in and telling you off

          2. My kid got punched in the stomach repeatedly by another girl and the teacher was all “this district sees a lot of worse things; you should be glad that you aren’t on the 11:00 news like some other incidents” for a 4th grader. Um, no.

            Still: this needed documenting and a convo with teacher and principal and so on up the food chain to fix the problem and not just a recounting of telling off the teacher in front of the kids

          3. These are issues to bring up with school administration and your elected School Board. Individual teachers have very little say over class size, curriculum, and instruction. The teacher not taking violence seriously is an issue to raise with administration and the School Board as well. Most people don’t even know who is on their School Board/School Committee. Look them up. Reach out! Go to a meeting! Vote!

          4. Taking things up with the school board presupposes that the school board gives a crap. My local one does not. It’s a springboard for other political office.

          5. I am not going to address this comment in this context. But as a general statement/proposition, it really articulates something I have never had the right words for. Thank you.

          6. Being mission-focused doesn’t change anything.

            If you’re a paid staffer on a political campaign and say that you have too much on your plate (it’s not corporate America – they don’t pay you a big bonus for long hours!), so you won’t get the mailers out until after the election, do you think that would fly?

        2. Many professionals don’t work in a corporate environment, not just educators. And there are a wide variety of norms even within the corporate world.

    15. Just break up with him. He doesn’t respect teachers and sounds like he doesn’t really respect women and is an entitled jerk. “JeffSteve, this has been fun but we aren’t a match long term. I wish you well. Bye.”

    17. Wonder what he actually said as opposed to what he says he said. It is still bad, but was he also trying to look like a badass in front of family? Still a jerk, but maybe he wishes he were even more of a jerk.

      1. I’d want to know more before passing final judgement. It is entirely possible that there is a months long issue with the teacher that is taking a short cut that is not in the best interest of his kid, esp if the kid needs any extra support. Short version, I bet there is more to the story if this guy otherwise does not raise flags for you.

      2. eh, saying this thing, or bragging about saying this thing would both be dealbreakers for me.

    18. Context is key for me, it would really depend on the entire situation: the catalyst for conversation, the thing teacher would have found helpful, and why that thing wasn’t in son’s best interest, and what would be best for son and why teacher wasn’t doing that.
      I say this because there are some teachers out there that really should quit and find another job, and while I’m not sure I would have put it as bluntly as dad put it, sometimes a parent really does have to play hardball to get their kid what is really needed.
      And honestly you sound pretty sheltered about the whole thing if you’ve never heard of this type of thing until now. Valuing education isn’t just Ivy league degrees and respect for teachers.

      1. Agreed, needs more context. Also some teachers have really large class sizes and minimal support to meet needs like IEP plans. It’s possible that he’s venting about the situation and no one is truly wrong here.

    19. The biggest red flag for me is discussing this in front of the kids. Despite having a disagreement with the teacher, he needs to teach his kids to respect their educators. He is modeling the opposite. At a young age, this can lead to real behavioral problems in his kids. He’s doing them a disservice.

      1. This kid is either 10 or 12. They know which teachers are good and which ones are bad at that age. I would rather my kid disrespect a bad teacher than go through what a friend did because her parents preached “always respect the teacher full stop”.

      2. I don’t agree with how he talked to her, but I’m really glad my parents stood up for me vs. teachers in my presence. But again we don’t have context.

      3. I had some objectively bad teachers growing up. It would’ve been a really good teaching moment for my parents to demonstrate by their actions that it’s not ok to be treated that way and here’s what you do when someone treats you in a not ok way (nothing, in my case). I don’t think it’s good to teach kids that they should lie down and take it because authority figures are always right. Teaching kids appropriate boundaries is part of protecting them.

    20. Longer comment in m0d…The biggest issue for me is having this discussion in front of his kids! The kids need to respect their teachers regardless.

    21. If I was in your shoes, I’d ask about the context for this statement. I have kids around that age, and I am usually hopelessly deferential to their teachers. However, there have been a few situations with my kids where I felt like a teacher or administrator was really, truly, deeply, out of line and that adult needed to focus on my child’s needs over their own desires. In a school with several hundred (or several thousand) students, it’s really easy for a child to get lost in the shuffle. My kids have plenty of advantages, but that doesn’t mean that I won’t be their advocate if something really egregious is happening.

      FWIW, I’ve met my share of Ivy degreed parents who view K-12 teachers as “the help” (never mind preschool teachers) and any school rules as suggestions as opposed to requirements.

    22. Your boyfriend sounds like a jerk and also completely unrealistic about how a teacher with 30ish students is going to cater to his son. Do you want to be part of a family that raises entitled, rude children?

      And your add-on about the Ivy degress…. well, in my experience, that makes this behavior more likely, not less.

    23. My big issue with the comment is that it sounds contemptuous and rude and has zero chance of improving whatever the issue is. It’s also completely unrealistic.

      1. And I mean unrealistic in terms of his comment that she should quit.

        Honestly, if there’s a school issue he feels this worked up about and he feels it isn’t being resolved by talking to the teacher, it’s time for him to loop in an administrator.

    24. I don’t know how you can respect this man after this. If nothing else, it sounds really dumb. I mean of course his child is his highest priority, but being incredibly rude to the child’s teacher is not a good way to ensure the child will get treated well by the teacher. And it is not best for his child to learn that it is okay to be rude and disrespectful to people in positions of power over you, for practical as well as moral reasons.

    25. My son had some wonderful teachers. He also had a few – including his kindergarten teacher – who were abusive and damaging. Without context, I have no way of evaluating his concerns. I mean, did she say that “we don’t have time for recess because we had the highest scores in the past five years and we don’t want them to go down?” Because if so, and I have heard that kind of noise, then I am with him.

    26. The context of how he brought it up at dinner matters. It’s a bit tone deaf to brag about putting a teacher in her place to your GF’s parents who are teachers, even if his interaction with the teacher was totally warranted. In general, talking about conflicts you’ve had with others isn’t a great topic for polite dinner conversation. It’s along the lines of complaining as conversation. I’m totally guilty of doing this, especially when I’ve just had a really difficult interaction, but I don’t think it shows good social grace and I always kick myself for it afterwards.

  14. I know that people historically propose a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict, but I see Gaza and the West Bank as fundamentally different places (one very dense and urban and on the coast — why is it not another Tel Aviv? could it be? and one more rural and inland, not a city and not a port city). In light of current events, is it possible to have a 3-state solution and is there a good book or source out there on any of this? I feel that perhaps there is a Very Good Reason that this isn’t proposed by others (and yet, it seems like combining Brooklyn with a part of NY that is somewhere like Orange County — much north or west of an urban port city or why Pakistan and Bangladesh, similar non-continguous areas, are now separate countries).

    1. I haven’t heard calls for a three-state solution. There are arguments that a true state needs to have contiguous, defensible borders, which would suggest that the Palestinian state should be in the West Bank and that the residents of Gaza could be incorporated into it. Obviously that would pose a lot of challenges and issues that I’m not going to pretend to solve in a short post here.

      The real issue, though, is that Hamas has no interest in a one-state, two-state, or three-state solution. Neither does Iran. Their stated goal is to wipe Israel off the map. Israel has to act with that in mind at all times.

      1. I haven’t heard calls for a 3 state solution either, and am not sure that would be easier to implement. I agree that the fact that the Palestinian territories are split over two distinct areas is an issue, and I believe part of the issue is that Palestine has wanted to gain access to land to bridge the gap and particularly to Jerusalem, which Israel is not inclined to let go of for obvious reasons. The other issue as pointed out above is that the Hamas does not want to discuss any kind of 2 (or 3) state solution because the only option they will consider is the eradication of Israel. I have heard calls for Jerusalem to become an UN-administered “neutral” zone, which might make sense in theory, but I’m practice I’m not sure that the UN can efficiently and durably secure the area. I get annoyed when people talk about this an say something super basic and then say “if you’re saying it’s complicated, then you are complicit with X group” because no, of course it’s complicated, otherwise this would have been resolved a long time ago.

      2. I honestly thought that Hamas had officially endorsed the two state solution for many years now. Is that all lip service?

          1. My understanding is that the Palestinian Authority (in power in the West Bank) has (somewhat reluctantly) accepted a two state solution. Hamas (in power in Gaza) has not.

        2. Um, no? Hamas’ charter literally calls for the annihilation of Israel and Hamas “fighters” called home on October 7 boasting how many Jews they personally killed. Hamas has never supported Israel continuing to exist.

        3. No, Hamas has never wanted two states. Its charter calls for killing Jews. That said maybe many regular Gazans would want it.

          1. But not really since Gazans overwhelmingly elected Hamas and continue to support Hamas (including the attacks of October 7 by all available data). You (me too!) might wish this was true.

          2. I read somewhere that since seizing power after the election where they won a plurality (2005ish?), Hamas hasn’t had any more elections. And the majority of Gazans are children, so not able to vote even in the last elections. I don’t think that Hamas truly has the support they are feared / claim to have even within Gaza. But let’s have elections and find out. Or at least let women / children / elderly men flee to Egypt.

          3. I don’t think the elections in Gaza are super democratic, and many Gazans weren’t eligible to vote in the last election (half their current population is under 18, and many more weren’t 18 at the last election). That said, you are right that polls show strong support for Hamas.

          4. why is half the current population under 18? i cannot imagine wanting to have so many children if i lived in such an undesirable environment

          5. Anon @1:19, are you for real? Do you know anything about what kind of life circumstances lead to higher or lower birth rates?

          6. They do have very high fertility rates, but also people don’t live that long there, which is part of why their population skews so young.

        4. No. Hamas has never endorsed a two state solution. Their stated goal is annihilating Israel.

        5. PLO endorsed a 2 state solution – they are the government in the West Bank. They have not condemned the attacks but they do not seek the end of Israel as a state.

          Hamas is the government in Gaza. Their expressly stated goal is the eradication of a Jewish states and all Jewish people from the area (comparable to ISIS). They spent their time building actual gun and rocket factories in Gaza when Gaza normally relies on 455 trucks of aid each day before the war.

          2. Exactly. They built rocket and gun factories and installed phone lines in their tunnel networks.

      3. Neither does the radicals in the Israeli gob which stated goal is to wipe Palestinians off the map. As long as neither of them recognize the right of the other country to exist this situations is not going to end.

    2. You mean like Gaza being its own independent nation? No that’s stupid sorry. It’s a teeny tiny strip of land. It can’t just become Singapore.

      1. Why can’t it be Singapore? Or Hong Kong? I don’t see what the limit is if it is just based on size.

        1. That would require (at least two things they do not have):

          * A desire to build a functioning society that is greater than their desire to destroy Israel/kill Jews.
          * Financial and other support from Arabs/Muslims/allies around the world.

        2. Are you just ill informed about the world? Hong Kong and Singapore function as modern powerhouses building on centuries of development. They didn’t start as independent countries in chaos.

    3. The better solution is two states with the Palestinian state being a federal state like US, Canada etc as Gaza and West Bank do have differences.

      The problem with Hamas is that they do not want a two state solution. They want the end of Israel. Gwynne Dyer had a good article when this started which explained that Hamas’ end goal with the current crisis is to provoke a ground invasion by Israel which Hamas hopes to use to draw in Hezbollah etc.

    4. It’s more like Manhattan and upstate New York. Which are part of the same state.

      2. Or sticking Vermont and New Jersey together. Both were formerly under British rule also. And aren’t really the same at all.

    5. I see many people here saying that the problem for the two-state solution is Hamas in Gaza when we have the Palestinian population of the occupied Cisjordania being targeted by armed militias of Jewish settlers and Israeli troops. The Israeli government has been ignoring UN resolutions in this regard for decades.
      “The Israeli government has increasingly restricted civic space through a strategy of delegitimizing and silencing Palestinian and Israeli civil society, to stifle dissent, frustrate democratic institutions and practices, and strengthen authoritarianism, explain experts who investigate the violations of international law and human rights in the Occupied Palestinian Territories and Israel.” (From UN web in Jun)

      1. This might be a reach but… which if these are BOTH problems impeding a two state solution?

  15. someone asked the other week (can’t believe it’s been weeks) why we aren’t seeing more Israeli flags pop up like we’ve seen for Ukraine. One person said it’s because a lot of people don’t agree with the Israeli government (true) even though they condemn what Hamas did and others said because of anti-semitism. Well my college bestie who lives in a suburb of Minneapolis had some kind of yard sign and she was wfh on a call and saw someone stop in front of her house (in a car), jump out, rip out the sign, flick them off and speed away. she also had accidentally left her garage door open and fortunately he did not come inside. i am unfortunately not surprised, but i can’t imagine having so much hatred or so much free time to have nothing better to do with my time than that

    1. I’ve actually been surprised by how many Israeli flags I’ve seen. A lot of people who have Ukraine also have Israel now. But I am in a red state and Dems here tends to be pretty centrist, we don’t have a lot of Omar/Talib/AOC types.

    2. That was me and I still haven’t seen a single Israeli flag in my area (we were papered with Ukraine flags and some are still flying). I think people are worried about becoming victims. In London, antisemitic incidents are tracked separately and apparently this is how it’s been going: “According to London police, there were 218 antisemitic hate crimes reported in the capital between October 1 and 18, a 1,350 percent increase over the same period last year.”

      In the U.S., Jews make up about 2% of the population but are victims of over 50% of hate crimes. These stats are both reported in The Free Press this morning.

      1. It’s really dreadful.

        Also, no one flying a Ukraine flag was seen as anti-Russian people and there seems to be a conflating of even showing a Star of David (or wearing a kippah) as somehow bearing animus against the Palestinian people (who are something like 60% children and even the adults have not had elections in at least 15 years, so are clearly not able to register their non-support of Hamas in any meaningful way to the world). I see most Palestinians and foreign people who may have been visiting family at the wrongest of times as being trapped in a world where they, especially their children, are being used as human shields. I also support the people (Muslim, Jewish, Christian, whatever) in Israel, including the many non-Israelis in their midst.

        We don’t have a glyph for this but we should.

        1. I think it’s insane that there are people in Gaza who have foreign passports who were just there visiting. Like ok sure let’s get them out but they had no business being there. It’s like rescuing hikers in Iran.

          1. The stories I’ve seen are people visiting older relatives who aren’t likely to take plane trips (where do you even fly out of, Tel Aviv?). I get that.

          2. Why is it insane that people went to visit their families? The parents of the Scottish Prime Minister’s wife were visiting her brother and his family. Do people who left just never go back and see their families?

          3. @ 11:44 I flew last week and two different US airlines had alerts that they were not flying to Tel Aviv.

            It’s so easy for people with relatively cush lives to say “they should just get out of Gaza.” Most Gazans don’t have the means, but even if they did, it’s far from easy.

          4. @12:59, US airlines aren’t flying to Tel Aviv currently, but lots of foreign airlines are. I have (had?) an Israel trip booked for 2024, and United sent me an email about alternate ways to get to Tel Aviv. There were a bunch of options.

        2. As a Russian-American, there was a lot of anti-Russian sentiment at the start of the war. I’m a dual citizen and I remember seeing online conversations that anyone with a Russian citizenship should be stripped of all assets in the US. There was also a lot of “the only good Russian is a dead Russian.” A coworker was posting pictures of dead Russian soldiers and making fun of them, talking about how great it was that they are dead and that she’s glad they suffered.
          I’m massively against the war and have not been a fan of the Russian government pretty much ever, but I hate that I have to clarify that before I post here so I don’t get attacked. I’ve stopped telling anyone I’m Russian if I can avoid it.

          Certainly showing an Israeli flag is going to attract negative attention and perhaps make someone unsafe. The same can be said for Palestinian flags, depending on where you are.

          1. Thanks for this. I also recall reading and seeing many Russians publicly expressing their disagreement with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and even leaving Russia because they disagreed with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. I admire them.

            Since Hamas invaded Israel, how many Palestinians have I seen expressing disagreement with the invasion? Oh, right, that’s zero.

            Is that because no Palestinians disagree? Is it because woke-ism has made antisemitism the last remaining acceptable kind of hate and racism (they mistakenly believe that Israelis are “white” and “colonialists”)?

          3. i’m very sorry that happened to you. people shouldn’t be judged by groups to which they may or may not belong. and just because you belong to a group doesn’t mean you agree with everything it does. people are dumb. it’s like assuming during the Trump presidency that every American agrees with Trump

          4. “Is it because woke-ism has made antisemitism the last remaining acceptable kind of hate and racism (they mistakenly believe that Israelis are “white” and “colonialists”)?”

            Do you have any evidence or backup logic, reasoning, etc. for this? At all? I’m sorry – this just defies common sense, for me. I do not know anyone who thinks anti-Semitism is acceptable for any reason, “woke” reasoning or otherwise.

            Also, I automatically assume people who use words like “woke-ism” are hard right wing conservatives. Is that an accurate assumption in your case?

          5. I am Anon at 12:12. I am a progressive American Jew. I stand shoulder-to-shoulder with fellow progressives on issues – I am pro-choice, pro-voting rights, I support BLM, I think systemic unfairness is real, I vote D, I believe in separation of church and state, etc.

            And I clearly observe that when it comes time for everyone to support Israel, I step forward and all the other progressives disappear.

          6. Agree with Anon at 12:20, as another liberal American Jew who has always voted Democratic and supported causes like BLM.

          7. @ 1:20 I think there’s disagreement about “when it’s clearly time to support Israel”

    3. There’s nothing about that that’s specific to Israel. People do that all the time to flags or signs they don’t agree with or don’t like or just aren’t in the mood to see. Think political candidates, rainbow flags, etc, etc. Not saying it’s right, just saying it happens.

        1. You can’t make that assumption. We had a Biden/Harris sign in our yard tagged with a bad word in permanent marker and ripped up, during the 2020 election. I do not make the assumption that the person who destroyed our sign wants to kill me personally or even kill all Democrats or Biden/Harris supporters, because that is a ludicrous leap of logic.

      2. Yeah, pretty sure the guy who did it was doing it because it was Israel and not just because he’s somebody who drives around ripping up yard signs willy nilly.

    4. I don’t have anything up because I worry about being attacked. It’s sad but true.

      1. Ugh, yes. Just messaged my friends sister who I follow on insta who posted straight up Hamas propaganda today about how well treated the hostages have been. Uh, kind of missing the point???? I felt super awkward about it but couldn’t say nothing.

      2. “People are not their governments” cuts both ways. One can be anti-Israel without being anti-Semitic.

        1. well, you can disagree with the current israeli government. if you disagree with Israel’s right to exist, that is getting to be anti-Semitic

    6. I think people are concerned about hate crimes. I have an Israeli flag in my window but live on the fourth floor of a doorman building in NYC. Wouldn’t do it if I lived in a first floor apartment. Some synagogues here have police cars stationed outside on Saturdays. I’m a little nervous that mine doesn’t…

    7. It was when the Ukranian flag covered my FB feed that I decided I will never again follow the progressive virtue signaling with my profile pic. I don’t need to fly the Pride flag or any other flag to be an ally.

      1. I feel the exact same way. Sorry, but changing a profile pic to a flag or a symbol is performative unless someone is actually doing something in the offline world to support the cause they’re claiming on social media. And the real-world actions are 100x more impactful and more likely to create change than changing a profile picture or posting a meme. Like, don’t post memes or change your profile pic and then tell me you “forgot” to vote in the last election, or you didn’t vote because “all the candidates were yucky.” Actions matter, not words (or pictures, as the case may be).

    8. The Israel/Gaza conflict and the Ukraine war are so, so, so different. The murder of Israeli citizens on 10/7 was horrific, Israel and Ukraine are simply not in analogous (or even remotely similar) positions. That’s the simple answer. The discourse around this conflict is also very different and far more divisive than the discourse around the Ukraine war. I can understand why people don’t want to make themselves targets, and I can understand why people who are genuinely appalled and horrified by the deaths of Israeli and Palestinian civilians don’t feel like hanging a flag is adequate to convey their thoughts on the matter.

    9. Folks dipping out of performative allyship when it comes to this particular conflict is so telling. All of a sudden the line isn’t “if you aren’t with us you are against us,” it is “it’s okay to not say something this time.”

  16. What do your tweens do between school and bed? I have an 11 year old who suddenly has no sports (between seasons) and she’s driving me crazy. She gets home at 3 and goes to bed at 9/9:30. She has to be in bed reading by 8:45. She’ll color or read, but her default is TV or playing on a device of some kind.

    I think part of what has us stumped is that she normally is with friends at sports, but she switched from a sport that runs thorough mid-nov to one that ends in early October so she has about 4 weeks off while most of her buddies still have practices and games 3x/week.

    1. As a kid who never played a sport: Homework, practicing an instrument, reading for fun, hanging out with siblings (yes even if it’s a joint screen like Mario Kart), babysitting neighbor kids (age 12-14 was my sweet spot) for on Fri night or weekends.

        1. That is crazy. Can you find out if there is something she’s interested in studying during this period, like a language through DuoLingo or some part of the world or period of history? Would she like to earn money doing some chores? Perhaps she could take up running or some other exercise to supplement her sport training. That said, I think extra TV and reading is fine for a few weeks.

          2. She’s only a 5th grader and our district has a no homework in elem policy. Her 20 min is reading (which she does for like 90 min).

        2. 20 minutes of homework at age 11?! Wow, I’m jealous. My kids are much younger and have way more homework.

    2. I never did high school sports. Most of my time was spent doing homework or watching TV, tbh. I went to an intensely academic school and needed to decompress. I also spent hours on the phone with my friends (so funny how we would spend all day together at school and then talk on the phone or AIM at night).

    3. I would literally go on a date with my child every day if I could. Can you take her places? It’s not clear if you’re working or have other kids home. Can’t you hit the library, movies, shopping and take her out for dinner? i can’t wait until my youngest is this age.

      1. Hate to say this, Mom, but at 11 there may be a limit to the amount of time Daughter wants to spend with OP, as well as the amount of “face time” OP has to give in the situation. It was right around this age that we noticed a marked change in our kid, who wanted more alone time, or time with friends – not more time with us. At 12 (which OP’s daughter may be close to) there would have been a flat-out refusal of “dates” daily after school – we might have been able to pull that off once a month. Maybe.

        Kids are different, of course, but at 11 – most kids are realizing they are not little kids any more, and they don’t necessarily want to do Museum Date (or whatever) with Mom every day. Especially if their peers are not doing that, and have more space to do their own thing. (That also may not be financially feasible for this family – I know we could not have afforded for one of us to take our kid on an outing after school every day for years.)

      2. I have two other kids, and they all have stuff on different days. Yesterday I took my oldest- the 11 year old- and dropped her at the library for an hour while I ran one of the other kids to an activity.

        she doesn’t really have any friends in walking distance and her good friends are all still playing soccer after school on the days she’s open. My younger two play with eachother well but they are still in make-believe land (5&7).

        I’ve tried to get her to help with cooking (in a fun way, like make brownies), or shoot hoops (fine for a while but she gets bored unless someone is with her). She’s a good reader and enjoys it but not 5-hours-a-day. We are walking distance to a couple shops but she wants to go with me or a friend.

        Left to her own devices she’d play roblox, or message/text/call (she has a chrome book and an old iPhone but not a smart phone- she’s a 5th grader) with her friends that live across town and also don’t play soccer, but that’s a lot of screen…but maybe that’s her stage of life?

        She really needs a same age neighborhood buddy to bum around with for an hour but we just don’t have one.

        1. I mean, when we were kids we talked on the phone with our friends, so messaging/texting is just the modern equivalent.

    4. Your kid may just need to figure this out fresh, especially if this time is usually occupied. Maybe you can help kiddo explore with some art supplies or making dessert or raking leaves or just going for a walk (get a NoxGear setup — will be useful for years). My kids do Scouts, so there is always some sort of merit badge homework or paperwork or knot practicing that they could do. Or laundry. Or running around with a swiffer. It’s a good time to do life skills also, like changing sheets and taking out trash and pulling out trash cans on trash day. If they can be helping and it’s their task or a family/household task, I will oversee and assign the task until they can do it solo.

    5. I never had activities after school. At that age afterschool was mostly homework, reading and talking to friends on the phone or over AIM.

    6. Well, this is temporary, right? Being bored isn’t the end of the world.
      I hesitate to suggest “training” for an 11 year old, but it sounds like she likes sports. Maybe she could do something related to one of her sports if you’re trying to keep her off screens? Like wall ball (for tennis or lax) or an agility ladder? You could make family time to shoot hoops?
      At 11, my kids got pretty into learning how to cook. Do you think she’d like to do simple dinner prep or start baking?

    7. i was only allowed to watch 1.5 hours of TV Monday – Thursday growing up. i think i had more than 20 minutes of HW so I did that. Play a board game as a family? a craft project? practice a sport? ride a bike? do a puzzle

    8. So I didn’t really police this, TBH, because at 11 my son didn’t have a phone or unfettered access to a computer or a TV (the family TV – we only had one – and computer were in the living room, so he couldn’t use them without us knowing what he was doing). I remember him reading a lot; I remember him getting on XBox (in the living room, using the living room TV) and playing video games with his friends (we had a one-hour time limit on this). He’d ride his bike around the neighborhood or go down the street to see what his neighborhood friends were doing (they were three-sport athletes, though, and rarely home after school). He’d go out and tinker with things in the garage – my husband has always kept scrap computer parts and other random junk around and I remember him and his dad working on a couple of small projects. He was still into Legos – that lasted until he was about 13 – so I remember him building some pretty fantastical Lego creations. We also got him some old-school basic electronics kits, and he’d work with those. He had art supplies and plenty of copy paper, and I remember him working on a comic book that I don’t think ever got finished. But I didn’t micromanage, and somehow he always figured out how to keep himself occupied.

      It’s honestly good for kids to be bored and have to figure out how to entertain themselves. I would absolutely get some art supplies and “how to draw” books if she’s interested in that, or some basic electronics kits (or a chemistry set, or a Raspberry Pi/Arduino kit) if she’s interested in science. (My two cents – computer time where kids are learning to code is different than time spent just watching YouTube, or whatever.) You could teach her the basics of cooking and baking – or have her take a class – and see if she’s interested in developing those skills, and helping with dinner. Ditto with learning to sew or knit, if she’s crafty. You could get her some supplies and books and she could teach herself how to paint, or sculpt with clay, or make beaded jewelry, or embroider. There are a lot of possibilities.

      I would not relax limits on TV or devices right now; this is a really good time for her to pick up basic skills and interests that are not electronically based.

      1. One more thing:
        Even with all the above, we’d still hear “I’m bored” from time to time. Once, my son said that and my husband said – “hey great, I’ve been meaning to get some help with this project” and took him out to the garage and set him to task sorting screws from a big coffee can into their appropriate drawers in a tool organizer he’d bought at Harbor Freight. My husband told my son, you have to do this for at least one hour before coming back and saying you don’t want to keep doing it. After that – we heard a lot less “I’m bored.” If I’d had an opportunity, I would have made my kid clean baseboards and windowsills with a wet sponge (just in case you need an idea). If Kid finds out “I’m bored = I will be set to a monotonous/tedious task I don’t want to do” then she’ll figure out how to entertain herself pretty fast.

        1. In my house growing up, if anyone said, “I’m bored,” then she had to go clean the bathrooms. It was joke-y, but helped us learn that you’ve got to figure out some things to occupy yourself, or others will fill that time. I’ve adopted the same approach in my house. My children will complain about many things, but they won’t ever say that they’re bored.

          It is a skill, though, to entertain yourself if you’ve never had to do it before, and I’m sympathetic to that!

    9. As a tween, I wrote and doodled and composed elaborate family trees in notebook after notebook.

      1. I did a lot of doodling too. I think it’s good for kids to be bored and have to come up with stuff to do on their own. I also spent a lot of time lying on my bedroom floor listening to CDs!

    10. How about a short term weekly tradition of a dinner at the same reasonably priced restaurant on the same night every week? A weekly mother-daughter mani-pedi? Seeing a movie in theatres? Baking cookies for Halloween? Raking the leaves? Knitting a scarf? Picking up a craft kit at Target each week? Going to a paint your own pottery place?

      On a more practical note, could she be doing some strength training or conditioning in her off season? Going from lots of movement to no movement would drive me batty too.

    11. No chores? I like the suggestion of having her cook at least one meal a week and you doing something with her another night. Other than that, if she’s generally active, there isn’t much harm in letting her goof off with electronics.

    12. I just read All The Books. A little TV, but back in the day TV offerings were limited so it was mostly reading.

      1. Same. (TV wasn’t that limited in my childhood, but my parents didn’t own one!)

  17. My DH, me and our 6 year old kid are planning to take a cruise in 2024. We picked a cruise line and specific itinerary. My SIL and BIL are avid cruisers, and we’d love for them to join us if they’re interested in this particular itinerary, but we’re not interested in compromising on a different itinerary or a different cruise line. Is there a tactful way to invite them, given that we’re not flexible and aren’t going to take their preferences into account?

    1. That’s where you say “We’re going on this date on this cruise. If you can make it, we’d love to see you join us!” Better yet, put down the deposits before you tell them. You don’t need to justify it.

    2. “Dear SIL and BIL,

      We are taking a page out of your book and have planned a cruise for 2024! It’s Norwegian from Seattle to Anchorage the second week of July. We know it’s a long shot to ask you to join us, because it’s such a specific cruise line, itinerary, and time, and you two must have your own preferences by now. But if you could join us, let us know. We would love to have you for the Jones family inaugural cruise!”

      1. Is this how you actually talk to people in real life? It sounds so contrived. Just use normal language for this, it doesn’t need to be overly complicated.

    3. Hey we decided to book the Norwegian 7-night Caribbean for the July 1 sailing! Wanted to let you know in case you’d like to coordinate vacations and sail together.

    4. Are your dates also set? I’ve done this via actually booking and then inviting. Once they came and once they did not which we were fine with.

    5. I can’t tell if you have picked specific dates or just the route. If it’s specific dates, sign up for it, tell them about the cruise you are planning and so excited about, and ask if they would be interested in joining. If it’s just a route on a specific cruise line, such that you would still be willing to consider their date preferences, tell them that you have decided to do X on Y cruse line, are super excited about it, and wonder if they would be interested in coming too.

    6. Book it first, and then send it to them and say, “We’ve booked this and can’t wait. Any chance you could join us?”

    7. I think you have to use your words. But I sense that you’re hesitant to tell them because they’d try to take over and tell you what to do? If so, do you really want them to join you?

      1. Yeah, I guess that’s the issue. We sincerely do want them to join us if they’re willing to do the trip we’ve planned and we’ve traveled with them before and had a great time, so I’m not worried about the trip itself. But I expect when we reach out they will say “we’d love to join you at such and such date but we’d prefer to do this or that other itinerary” and then when we push back that our itinerary is not flexible, we (mostly me, because my husband is not the travel planner in our family) will be the bad guys. And that’s what I’m hoping to avoid.

        1. You aren’t the bad guys. The bad guys are the ones who join someone else’s planned vacation and throw a monkey wrench into the works.

          1. Unfortunately it’s based on past experience. I get that lots of people would either say “great, we’d love to come!” or “sorry, that doesn’t work for us, thanks for the invite though.” But unfortunately we’ve had experiences in the past with SIL & BIL being very enthusiastic about joining us, but requesting lots of changes to the plans to accommodate their budgets, preferences, etc. and then we either end up with vacation plans we don’t really like or end up feeling like a-holes for being too rigid and not compromising with them. We really enjoy spending time with them but the planning part is tricky.

  18. Looking for some dinner party menu help! I’m having some friends over this weekend for a Halloween dinner party. We have 10 people, including one vegan, and one vegetarian who has a nut allergy. I’m either doing vegan butternut squash pasta or vegan French onion soup, and will do a cheese/charcuterie board with hummus amd veggies, but am looking for ideas for other things to serve – sides, desserts, etc. Thanks!

  19. Looking for some dinner party menu help! I’m having some friends over this weekend for a Halloween dinner party. We have 10 people, including one vegan, and one vegetarian who has a nut allergy. I’m either doing vegan butternut squash pasta or vegan French onion soup, and will do a cheese/charcuterie board with hummus amd veggies, but am looking for ideas for other things to serve, especially sides and dessert. Thanks!

      1. Yeah, I’ve been making a kale, dried cranberries, apple and pecan salad with a maple-dijon vinaigrette that’s been a hit with several groups.

    2. Apple pie or pumpkin spice coffee cake for dessert. Tons of egg/dairy free recipes online.

      Chips and a salsa bar for apps?

    3. Oh this sounds so fun! I’d do the vegan butternut squash pasta over the vegan French onion soup – the pasta will be a more filling main for the vegan and vegetarian. You aren’t going to make all this stuff from scratch, are you? I would get a brisket or some other smoked meat from my local BBQ joint and serve it with horseradish sauce. I like the kale salad idea – in mine I add roasted sweet potatoes or beets, candied pecans, goat cheese and maple-balsamic dressing. Add some rolls and dinner is complete! I would buy dessert – pies, pumpkin roll, cake, etc. If you really want to make dessert I love a homemade butterscotch pudding.

    4. Just one vote here against vegan French onion soup. The non vegans will be very disappointed not to have the Gruyere crouton, which is the main attraction of French onion soup. Butternut squash soup is perfectly delicious vegan, however. I like it with fresh sage leaves fried gently in olive oil until they are crispy. The remaining sagey olive oil is also great drizzled on the soup.

      For a side I’d also do a green salad, but since I think kale is a hoax (no one actually likes it) I’d do something like dark mixed greens with sliced persimmon or apple, along with something like roasted pepitas or sunflower seeds on the side – they’re not nuts and allergies to them are rare, but ask your allergic friend.

      3. You could do a crouton on the side. With Gruyère for the cheese eaters and brushed with olive oil and garlic for the vegans. I also find it way easier to make a big batch of French onion soup in a big pot and then bake the toasts on a sheet tray.

    5. Recently had a vegan roasted veggie & lentil bowl that was a sufficient meal in itself and also made a great side if you’re serving meat to the non-vegans. I didn’t get all the ingredients but it included the lentils, brussel sprouts, more than one kind of squash, and seemed to be pulled together by a vinaigrette.

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