Coffee Break: Double Breasted Overcoat
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I like the black version of this coat — but this dark teal is really lovely. I especially like how it's a sedate color, but still a fun one that brings some brightness to your commuting outfit.
The coat is currently $179, but after the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale ends it'll go back to $299.
Some of our favorite classic coats for work as of 2025 include J.Crew, Sam Edelman, Aritzia, L.L.Bean, Quince, and Cole Haan. On the splurgier side, do check out Mackage, Soia & Kyo, Eileen Fisher, Fleurette, and Cinzia Rocca. We've also rounded up our favorite washable winter coats!
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I know we’ve been talking a lot about parents paying for college lately. I’m looking for external sources to send a friend.
Background – we have family friends who have a daughter the same age as our daughter. Both just finished undergrad. Friends are divided on whether they are expected to pay for grad school – in the case of their daughter, it’s law school.
My daughter just started grad school to get a teaching credential/Masters in education. The husband of our friend couple reached out to me to ask whether we’re paying for grad school. I told him we’re swinging about half from the remaining money in her 529 account, and she’s paying half through loans. He said his wife says that would be “mean” to do to their kid, to saddle her with loans when she’s just starting life. He admitted their retirement accounts are not where they should be, partly because wife opted to be a forever SAHM instead of going back to work when the kids started school as they had previously agreed upon.
So he told her what I said we’re doing, and that wasn’t enough to convince her. I guess I’m mean! I said I would look for links to send.
And yes, I know a lot of you think law school is not a great investment for anyone, but that decision is made already, so now the question is really just who pays.
I guess I don’t think parents are “expected” to pay for this. Mine didn’t pay for undergrad or law school because they couldn’t afford it. It sounds like your friend can’t afford it if they are lagging behind on retirement. The real solution is that the daughter should go to a law school where she gets a scholarship, but it sounds like that ship may have sailed?
What a bizarre question to call someone and ask. What difference does it make to your friend whether you are paying for your kids grad school? That should be 0% of the calculus in their own decision.
Seriously, this is nosy and doesn’t seem like it’s coming from a good place.
We have all known each other for 30 years.
And they’re putting you in the middle of their disagreement. You offered information on what you’re doing. You don’t need to justify your actions or send them links, especially if the wife is saying you’re mean.
If the tuition hasn’t been paid, has the decision really been made? I strongly believe parents should do everything they can to pay for a decent public university. Anything beyond that should not be the parents obligation if they would struggle to afford it. The daughter can make her own decision whether she wants to go to law school and incur the debt.
Not sure if there’s going to be an external source that says definitively “you are / are not expected to pay for your kid’s grad school” but my peers were generally expecting to pay or finance their own grad school.
I really don’t think there’s an expectation that parents pay for grad school. It’s unfortunate these people are putting their daughter in this position, as it sounds like there was not a conversation before their daughter applied to law school.
She’s taking a year to work and do the LSAT and will be applying, I guess, this spring. They’re having the money conversation now.
The. The decision hasn’t been made. She’s not 2.5 years into it wherein backing out would be a terrible idea.
Parents definitely aren’t expected to pay for it and shouldn’t if there’s any doubt about their retirement funding. If money really isn’t an issue, then it’s not entirely unreasonable to contribute, but it should never be the expectation and it’s definitely not mean not to. It’s a lot meaner to suddenly surprise your kids that they have to support you in retirement because you spent it all on their education. There are no loans for that, and I can guarantee that it’s a lot harder to take a sudden financial hit when working a big job, trying to raise kids, and support aging parents than when you’re young and able to live like a student.
Most of my friends went to grad school. Only 1 person’s parents paid for it (extremely wealthy family, kids had been told parents would pay for undergrad and either pay for grad school or give money towards a home purchase but not both, even though parents could easily afford both).
The vast majority of my friends (myself included) went to grad school part time while working full time and paid for it through some combination of employer tuition benefits, paying ourselves, or loans. Some of us pay have gotten some non-tuition parental support (a friend lived with her parents rent-free while working while doing her NP degree, for example), but I didn’t hear of anyone’s parents paying tuition.
MBA, law, OT, and med school friends went full time but I think almost everyone else was part time. Friends who did engineering, nursing (NP), education, hard science, social science, MPA/MPP, and less prestigious business programs all went part time.
Friends with PhDs obviously went full time and were funded by their department.
?? He reached out to you, you said what you were doing, he told his wife, she said what you’re doing is “mean,” he relayed that comment to you (?) and told you about their lack of retirement savings, which it sounds like you (and he?) look down on his wife for causing by not doing what she’d previously agreed upon. Now you’re looking for info to send him so he can convince his wife to do something she apparently doesn’t want to do…?
I’m thinking this is the point at which you bow out and let them solve this among themselves as they see best.
My parents – perhaps a bit ahead of their time – started saving for college for me in an investment vehicle that promised to match state tuition rates upon the time of my graduation. This was likely the pre-cursor of 529s, although I think some state 529s offer something similar. They started when I was in elementary and let me know what they were doing.
Over time (e.g. in middle school) they reminded me that it was for in-state tuition; anything beyond that would have had to come to scholarships, work-study, etc. By high school, I was clear that further schooling past undergrad would be on my dime, barring any leftover in my college account.
I ended up going to the flagship state university, and thanks to my parents, graduated with 0 debt. I also worked every summer and some semesters and that money would go towards various expenses that my parents would help triage. I am so, SO grateful for these lessons. I hope to do the same for our kids – fully fund in-state education and then work together on a plan for the other expenses.
I went to a private, second tier law school and took out loans. Not a great financial decision, but done with the warped belief I was investing in myself. My parents helped here and there, and even helped with some repayment before they retired, but 95% of the expenses – tuition, room/board, books, groceries – were all loans. I was never surprised by the fact I had to find a way to pay for this. In a VHCOL city. Luckily, I am frugal, so I was “only” $160K in the hole vs. $250K. I was making $42K after graduating law school – less than many of the job offers I was seeing as an undergrad! However, thanks to my parents advice, I was still putting away $100/month in a Roth IRA until my income got too high to qualify. It was never a ton of money, but has grown by leaps and bounds.
Ultimately, DH and I were able to throw money at it and pay it off when DS #1 was a baby thanks to our salaries/DH’s BigLaw bonuses. We were so, so lucky to be able to do this.
So.. no links?
Are you the OP? It sees like the feedback you’re getting is people’s own experiences rather than some other external source. Perhaps you should try google, but I agree with the posters above who say that there probably isn’t some kind of definitive authority saying who is “expected” to pay for grad school, because there doesn’t seem to be a societal expectation either way.
Do you have Google? You can find a link for whatever you want on the internet.
Anecdata: my parents paid for undergrad but laughed at paying for law school. No one at my law school except the super wealthy kids had parents who paid for law school.
You appear to be computer literate and have access to the internet. Find your own resources.
Why are you sending this man links? Let your family do what works for you and his family do what works for them.
(As a data point: I paid for grad school through company tuition reimbursement programs.)
Paying for anything is exceedingly generous. My parents didn’t pay for my education, made too much for me to qualify for financial aid, and then had the audacity to attempt to claim me as a dependent on their taxes.
I think the better question is: Why are you each so invested in what the other is doing, and in which one of you is ‘right’, that it’s somehow become a hill to die on?
I also don’t understand why you would feel the need to send links to ‘convince’ her that…what…you’re not mean? Or that you’re right that it’s not expected? What are you going to do if/when these links you find proving you right still don’t ‘convince’ her?
Some families really do believe it is an expectation, for whatever reason, and they are just as set in that belief as the families who believe that it is not an expectation. The best this argument will do is strain your relationship with your friends…
I think you are more involved in this than is healthy (for example, the comment about the wife’s SAHM status) and should bow out.
Y’all he asked her. That’s why she’s involved. If someone asks you for advice you have to consider the whole picture. Chillax.
This post clearly tells us OP is involved past the “giving advice” stage.
Giving advice would be telling them to speak to a financial planner and then bowing out, not posting a rant about how she was called mean and wanting links to prove she is right.
The real answer here is that you can’t persuade a spouse with news articles or literature. This isn’t an argument based on facts, it’s all emotions.
That said, I think the best advice to give the guy is that he needs to consult a financial planner with his wife who can lay out the options for them at this point. Perhaps a neutral third party could put things in perspective.
That’s a really good suggestion. Thanks. I think she does want to hear it from a neutral third party, which I am not.
LMGTFY:
https://hls.harvard.edu/sfs/financial-aid/financial-aid-application-overview/why-hls-considers-parent-resources/
You know what? It’s none of your friends’ damn business and their judgment is not warranted. FWIW, I don’t think parents are obligated to pay for a graduate education. (Or undergrad for that matter, but obviously it is a great thing if they can.)
My family is generationally wealthy (think: my kids will have trust funds set up to cover undergrad the minute they’re born) but my dad still made all my siblings pay for grad school. It’s way more standard for kids to cover it themselves. Especially if like your friends, they can’t afford it.
TLDR; Personally would have preferred my parents fund their retirement rather than any of my schooling costs. Goal for my family is to fully fund tuition for UG and grad, but my kid will be expected to put money toward books, living costs, etc. Research does show students with some skin in the game perform better and I think it teaches responsibility and appreciation — https://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2013/01/16/want-your-kids-to-succeed-dont-pay-for-their-education/?sh=2126577361d3
Longer story – Grew up solidly middle class with parents who both put little toward college savings and little toward their retirement (aka living paycheck to paycheck). I went to a private UG, responsible for about $10k/yr and had mostly lower interest loans. My parents covered books, living costs, etc. Also bought me a new car, which I would have preferred go to tuition, but wasn’t my call. Then grad school with a 50% scholarship and had a low interest government loan for the rest. I covered all living expenses, books, etc. during grad school. I paid it all back less than 5 years after grad graduation. It strongly impacted my career – I wanted to go to medical school and the thought of even more loans literally made me sick. I’m now a mgmt consultant making roughly what I would have as a PCP, but with a lot more flexibility although I’m unsure I enjoy what I do.
On the flip side, my partner’s parents covered everything for partner and their sibling and sibling’s grad education (would have covered for partner, but not needed for their field). And a close friend growing up had her UG and grad tuition covered, but had to pay for books, meal plan, and other non-rent expenses herself.
There’s a reason why so many young professionals like doctors and lawyers have student debt to pay off. Clearly it’s normal even at very desirable schools for people to take out loans for grad school.
I’m confused by the question, as there’s no objective “right” answer and its going to depend on family resources, so even what’s right for you may not be right for them. The fact that they’re looking for outside sources and the wife thinks something is “mean” would make me walk away from this conversation and pretend it didn’t happen.
My solidly middle class family paid for the state school equivalent of my annual undergrad costs (I got grants/loans for the rest for my private college), and $0 for law (mostly loans/some scholarships & grants). My husband’s middle class family paid fully for his in-state undergrad and a portion of his law, and he took out loans for the rest.
My parents fully paid for my fancy private undergrad, and then told me I was on my own for law school. I financed it through a combination of a big merit scholarship ($25k/year), savings from college jobs, working part time while in school and a manageable amount of debt ($50k of debt though. We expect to help our daughter with grad school to the extent it doesn’t hurt our financial goals, but we will also want her to have some of our her own finances at stake, either through loans or employment.
Somehow deleted part of my comment…
I think it was good for me to have a financial stake in my education and I took law school more seriously than undergrad as a result. But without the scholarship, I would have had $100k+ in debt, which would have been a really crushing amount of debt.
I would discourage my own kid from taking on more than ~$50k of debt for any grad/professional program. Whether the rest is made up of her savings, scholarships and/or our contributions is TBD. We will likely help if it doesn’t hurt our financial goals, but not pay the whole thing.
I agree with all of this. DH and I want to help as much as we can. That will likely mean the majority of undergrad tuition (assuming they stay in-state) and room and board. But also, I completely believe that college students need to have at least minimal financial stake in their own education, to fully value it. I would heavily discourage my kids to take out massive loans for undergrad OR grad school without a very solid plan of how they’re going to repay it and for how long. One of my BFFs has been out of college for 20 years and is still paying back student loans on out-of-state tuition. Love him to pieces, but he fully admits that taking out student loans for everything was not a smart move financially.
I went to a private T25 law school with a lot of kids from wealthy families. I surmised that a lot of my fellow students from money had received more parental support during college than I had (no loans, were allowed to live at home during summers, cars and insurance and living expenses fully covered by parents), but that most of them were taking loans to pay for tuition and rent and books and food during law school, with some bonus support from parents (cars, health and auto insurance, clothes shopping trips and such on breaks, and enough extra spending money to support their drug habits).
Don’t be so sure. Most of us got real good at speaking the language of loans by the time law school rolled around and faked it. No one likes a rich kid and most are socially aware enough to pretend.
I don’t think there’s an objective right answer. I know a lot of people who got significant help with grad school, but I run in affluent circles where people are very focused on education and parent would rather fund kids’ grad school than buy themselves a beach house. It’s also really hard to predict what each kid’s educational costs will look like. We’re planning to save enough for private college so if kid ends up at our very affordable State U, we’ll have a *lot* of money left over to help with grad school. TBH, I think this may be the better path and I’m still kind of salty that my parents wouldn’t let me take a full ride to a state school and use the money they’d saved for college on grad school.
My parents generously paid for my undergrad, but I paid for law school (and paid it off yesterday, 12 years later!). All but 2 of my friends paid for their own grad school, and those friends have very wealthy families.
Now in my 30s, I’m very grateful my parents did not sacrifice retirement planning to pay for more of my education. I’d be much more worried about my parents not being able to afford to retire and how that would affect my finances than I was about paying back my loans (and I was pretty darn stressed about paying them back).
Congrats!!!
Thank you!
My parents paid (via loans in their name) for fancy undegrad, fancy law school was all on me. Most of my friends that went to graduate school had loans. I can only thing of one or two who did not, and they were older, so I’m not sure if their parents were footing the bill or they had money from previous careers.
I don’t think it’s a typical thing to pay for / not expected. It’s wonderful to do if you can but I think far far fewer families pay for grad school.
FWIW, my parents massively prioritize saving for their kids’ education (like – started a 529 when they got married, years before we were born), and told us they planned to be able to pay for undergrad but we should plan on paying for grad school. In the end, I got a full merit scholarship for undergrad, and both my siblings had much lower expenses than expected, and my parents offered to help pay for grad school with the extra — but it was absolutely not an expectation
Don’t get involved in another man’s marriage
+10000
OP, you are far too invested in this situation.
Back off, do what you are going to do and let them do what they are going to do. Thirty years of friendship still does not make this your problem.
Unpopular opinion, but I think parents have an obligation to pay for school and they should pay for the schooling that will count like college and graduate school.
Whaaaaaa no. My kid wants to go to law school, it’s on her. Unless she got scholarships for undergrad and that meant we had surplus savings.
Anyone have ideas for a gift for a friend who is going through a divorce and just moved into her own house? It doesn’t seem like she really *needs* anything, but I’d like to send something.
There was a thread on this yesterday! I vote flowers, candle or nice wine / snack she likes to make it feel more homey
Seriously?! Oops. I missed reading yesterday and had no idea. Will look back.
An invitation to dinner and drinks, with you and on you.
This.
I agree that an invitation to dinner and/or drinks, but you’re not nearby and really want to send something, new bedsheets, the more indulgent the better.
Love the new sheets idea
If she doesn’t have them, tools are my go-to housewarming gift. In a 5 gallon bucket, somehow you always need one of those
Favorite podcasts? I need recommendations.
Mine are:
Pod Save America (and any other Crooked Media pods)
Heavyweight
This American Life
If Books Could Kill
You’re Wrong About
First Edition
The Book Riot Podcast
Were You Raised By Wolves
Best Friends
Keep It
Ladies we need to talk
No stupid questions
Straightiolab
British Scandal, 99% Invisible, Scamanda
Ok, but Scamanda was terribly edited, right? Spoilers to follow.
The story was compelling, but I couldn’t help but thinking it could have been much, much shorter and could have rolled out the whole thing with the timeline of the other couple knowing something was fishy years before–when she claimed her pregnancy was reversing the cancer–in a twistier, more high-impact way.
100% agree. Scamanda was horribly padded and edited.
Snap Judgment (storytelling)
Criminal (about different aspects of crime)
The Moth (storytelling)
I Spy (true spy stories narrated by Margo Martindale)
Out Alive (from Backpacker magazine-survival stories)
Modern Love (although I am not enjoying the current season; earlier seasons were better)
Sold a Story (6-part series on the reading wars)
I Survived (by A&E-also survival stories)
Always listen to:
Best Friends
Everything is Fine
Bad Dates
Life Will Be the Death of Me
Sometimes:
Maintenance Phase
Why Won’t You Date Me?
Goop
Ask Iliza Anything
Weird Finance
Heterodorx
Blocked and Reported
The Unspeakable with Megan Daum
Conversations with Coleman
Revolutions by Mike Duncan
jumping off this thread – does anyone have recs for food or cooking podcasts? I enjoyed Home Cooking but ran out of episodes. I tried the Sporkful and Splendid Table but they are not entertaining enough.
I also like Food News on the Ringer Food feed, the hosts are longtime friends and pod co-hosts who rapid-fire go through fun food stories of the week and do taste tests.
I really like Milk Street radio.
Decoder Ring
Maintenance Phase
You’re Wrong About
Pop Culture Happy Hour
Ringer Dish
The Sporkful
The Ezra Klein Show
Fresh Air
The Rewatchables
Unspooled
Pop Culture Happy Hour
Slate Political and Culture Gabfests
Plain English with Derek Thompson
Time to Say Goodbye
The Retrievals – new limited podcast from the NYTimes. It will make you feel rage.
So much rage! I can only listen to about half an episode at a time.
+1
Every single woman should listen to this podcasts.
They are doing a fantastic job.
It is INFURIATING. And sadly, a true lens into how women and treated by the healthcare system.
Back from Broken (interview series about life challenges, public radio)
People I (mostly) Admire
Economics of Everyday Things
Happier and Happier in Hollywood
Prof G Pod
Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus
Today Explained
Fat Mascara
Now & Then
The Bulwark
Jack
Majority 54
Nobody Asked Us, Suspect, Barbell Medicine
Listing them out, I am now realizing that I listen to a lot of pop culture podcasts!
Regularly listen to:
Las Culturistas
Who Weekly
More Perfect (it’s back!)
Normal Gossip
How Did This Get Made
Listen to depending on the guest:
Smartless
Conan O’Brien Needs a Friend
Why Won’t You Date Me
How Did This Get Made
Marketplace (which is really just a radio show on NPR, but I always seem to miss it and just listen to the podcast).
Bad Dates. I literally giggle out loud listening to it.
Pantsuit Politics
The Guilty Feminist
The Lazarus Heist
Dark Histories
In Our Time
Diary of a CEO
Also really enjoyed The Missing Cryptoqueen but that was more of a limited series
Ezra Klein podcast!
This seems like a silly thing to get upset about but I got what amounts to a wrist slap for reaching out to someone who is in charge of a project to set up a meeting discussing the implementation of said project. I work on the end user part of the project that was made available to end users last week and, when trying to use the tool, ran into a bunch of issues that are roadblocks and mean I can’t move forward with my end of the project. I’ve reached out to the owner of the project for guidance and was told to call the third party that hosts the tool, which didn’t answer a single one of my concerns.
So frustrating! Don’t say things are ready for end users unless they’ve been tested! Or if you haven’t tested them, then you should welcome feedback from the end users about how to actually use the tool!!!
This sounds infuriating and very familiar. Who did the slapping? If it was the implementation team, go to your boss, explain, and ask them to deliberately connect you with their boss on this issue specifically. If your boss did the slapping you may want to start looking.
I always get diarrhea once or twice during my period every month. Anyone experience something similar? Trying to gage if this is normal-ish.
Signed,
Late 30’s and typing while locked in a stall at the office hoping coworkers don’t come in…
Super normal, happens to me every time.
Look up “period poops” and you will see that it’s totally normal.
Super normal, I always get a little constipated 2-3 days before (it’s a reliable sign of the start date, lol) and then things… free up on days 2-3.
Yep, same thing.
Yup it happens to me too. Another vote for super normal.