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Updated: Dec 31, 2020 273 Comments · by

Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: Belted Crop Wide-Leg Pants

The Personal Shopper (TPS) |

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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

I love these wide-leg pants for a casual, yet pulled-together look. With a flowy bottom like this, I like to do a slimmer-fitting top. I could see myself wearing this with a tucked-in, short-sleeve sweater and a big necklace. I might also consider a bodysuit to make sure that it stays tucked in, although I’m having a heck of a time trying to find a plus-size bodysuit that I like at the moment.

The pants are $31.05, marked down from $69, and available in sizes 1X–3X. These pants in straight sizes look very similar (or may be the exact style; Nordstrom gave them different names), and they're up to 62% off. Belted Crop Wide-Leg Pants

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About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. WFH clothing

    Betabrand and American Giant ads cluttering my FB feed. They look perfect for WFH. tempted to place large order. Please advise of good/bad experiences.

      • The Beagle Has Landed

        Same experience with Betabrand pants, as well as pilling on the Dress Pants Yoga Pants. Also tried a couple of tops and dresses which were meh. I do have one surviving Betabrand dress with a kangaroo pocket that’s useful, and their skirts with the built-in shorts hold up well and have tons of pockets, so YMMV.

    • Digby

      I have American Giant sweatshirts and a flannel shirt, and my husband has their polo shirts, and they’re all good – well-made, good quality, seem to hold up well.

        • Digby

          I think true to size – we’ve both bought our usual sizes, and everything fits as we expected.

    • BB

      I’ve posted this rec a few times…I got 3 pairs of pants from them when they went WFH, and they all great! I got classic sweatpants (probably too hot for summer now), weekend pants (sooooo comfy, kind of feel like thick, baggy yoga pants), and linen pants (you need to switch out the drawstring cord because it’s horribly ugly, but it’s great for summer)! FYI the weekend pants and linen pants need hemming unless you are like 6′ tall.

    • NY CPA

      Underwhelmed by the beta brand pants that everyone talks about. They’re basically thick yoga pants with fake pockets and if you have curves, they fit very snug so definitely not work appropriate. They also fit small. I sent them back.

      • Carmen Sandiego

        I sent my Betabrand pants back as well. I didn’t like the fabric for the price, and also they were tight while also somehow being insanely long (and I’m not short).

    • anon

      The sizing and fabric on the Betabrand yoga pants has varied widely – sometimes I take a M but sometimes all the way up to an XL, and sometimes petite and sometimes not (5’5″, 165 lbs, for reference, and I’m an apple). I have a few pairs that I love, but overall the inconsistency makes ordering them not worth it.

      All I have from American Giant is one of their classic sweatshirts, but it’s great – well made and a nice style. I did need to size up, from what I could tell their stuff pretty much all runs a little small, and I didn’t want a too-tight sweatshirt!

    • Housecounsel

      American Giant tees and dresses impressed me with the substantial fabric. They’re a nice change from the super-thin tees everywhere.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      I love Betabrand dress pant yoga pants, but only for days that I’m not in front of clients. They are super comfy and can be worn with dressy shoes, but are obviously not dress pants. I also have the Betabrand travel cardigan, which I like. Lots of pockets, hood, super comfy and oversized, and does not wrinkle.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I like Betabrand pants but don’t dry them. They are freakishly long, but they have “short petite” sizes. They look MUCH better in solid colors than patterns or textures. I only have the straight leg. I think anything narrower will look like leggings. I’ll be able to wear them at work but I work somewhere very casual. I don’t think they’re worth full price. I’ve bought all but one pair on Poshmark.

    • Deedee

      AG has amazing sweatpants. The most heavy weight version is all I’ll wear during NE winter—and I run very cold. I have two pairs and they’ve lasted 3 winters so far as my only winter lounge/of pants. All cotton, durable and they wash softer and fade ever so lightly over time, just like I remember my clothes being like as a kid.

      • BB

        Really glad to hear your sweatpants experience! My only minor complaint about mine is that they are a bit “harder” than I was expecting, but looks like they just need some breaking in and a few wash cycles. Well, my other complaint is that I wish they had brighter colors!

    • Anone

      My husband has the classic AG zipped hoodie and while it is heavy and high quality, the zipper is sharp AF. I’ve never owned a piece of clothing with such a hazardous zipper. It cannot be washed in a load because if it opens at all it will shred the fabric around it, and borrowing it with my long hair worn down will result in it slicing off any strands it touches.

  2. Anonymous

    My new guy really likes having conversations about ideas (like we had an interesting one recently about how to define creativity, where it comes from, how to be more creative). I’m enjoying this but would love to figure out a way to improve my ability here and replenish my store of conversational topics, as I feel like he usually takes the lead in these conversations–are there podcasts you’d recommend with interesting stuff to think about? Ways to be a more confident/analytical thinker?

    • pugsnbourbon

      Hidden Brain and 99 Percent Invisible for podcasts. Longform dot org for interesting articles on just about any topic you can think of.
      What are YOU passionate about? Dive into that and see where it takes you.

    • Anon

      Just a caution, it’s great if this is what you’re into, but if you’re researching to just hang out with him, that’s not going to be sustainable long term. While everything can’t be easy, basic interactions should be.

      • Panda Bear

        +1. I dated some guys like this who fancied themselves such fascinating intellectuals and I felt the need to do research just to ‘keep up’. Maybe this guy is more genuine than the ones I encountered, but I agree that you shouldn’t feel pressure (even if its unintentional on his part) to do work just to have conversations.

      • Anon

        I still research stuff partly to keep up with my partner who just simply has much more intellectual energy than most people do. I’ve found it enriching. So I guess I fall into the “great if that’s what you’re into” category. That said, over the years, I’ve definitely needed to take breaks and just rest from learning stuff at times, because despite high interest, I have normal amounts of energy.

        • Anon

          I should add that my partner has no ego surrounding this and also has other outlets (e.g. adjunct teaching, where his students love his enthusiasm).

        • hi hi hi

          I am in a similar boat–he has more time and more energy. I will say that I one sneaky outcome from doing a bit of research on my own is that I can sometimes catch him parroting ideas of others he finds on the internet. It makes me feel a bit better than he too is sometimes just pulling from others. :)

      • Monday

        Agreed. If you’re not exploring your own topics and then bringing them up out of a true wish to do so, don’t try to mold yourself into someone more like him.

        Also, does he usually “take the lead” because you’re just not speaking? Or do you also bring up things to talk about, with him not showing interest? I don’t like the thought that the latter would lead you to try to change.

      • Anonymous

        I agree here. I’m the one in my marriage who likes the idea and theoretical conversations. I value my husband for his practical or just very different point of view. I think I would find it strange if he suddenly had a storehouse of conversation fodder.

      • Anon

        I’ll be a voice of dissent here because you said your guy is new. My guy was like this, too, when we first started dating. I think he wanted to seem smart and interesting (he is regardless). Once we got more comfortable with each other and some lulls in conversation, it mostly stopped. We do still have intellectual conversations and debates sometimes, but we don’t need to show off our knowledge or creativity. Plus, learning more/different things can be fun.

    • Pink

      I would ask your guy directly for resources on this. I think his answer will tell you a lot about whether his personality is all about discussing ideas (DH is this way – it’s fantastic because we always have something to talk about) or if he needs to be the intellectual in the relationship (SIL’s ex boyfriend) in which case I would second what everyone else says and run away as fast as you can.

    • Airplane.

      I think I’m scarred by guys like this from undergrad and law school who fancied themselves intellectuals and just wanted to debate and navel gaze and come off as brilliant minds but didn’t really treat women well in practice? Totally fine if you are actually into these “ideas” conversations and it’s a new guy so it’s not like all he does all the time. But I found as I exited my 20’s that I was less and less interested in guys who wanted to have deep conversations and debates all the time and more interested in someone who wanted to do things, fix things, take action and be more day to day action-oriented and concered about adult partnership versus a lot of conversations late at night over big ideas.

  3. Teeth whitening kits at home

    I’ve been pounding the teeth-staining caffeine all lockdown. The stick-on whitening strips work on the surface, but my teeth seem to be very nook-filled and these are getting noticeably dark vs the whitened smooth surface parts of my teeth. Not a good look! I think it is time to to the trays that you put the bleaching gel into, but which kit to pick? I am in need of something . . . Any recommendations? Getting into the dentist for in-office vanity work isn’t an option right now — they are open, but for Serious Dental Needs only.

    • Anon

      You know what works, surprisingly, is Crest Vivid White toothpaste. I think it’s called something else now but if you get their most stain-fighting toothpaste (usually the most expensive) it genuinely gets rid of those types of stains.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I have custom trays from my dentist, so I don’t have recs there, but once I’d used up the expensive solution from the office, I bought Five Minute White since the active ingredients were the same. Cheap and very effective!

    • Aunt Jamesina

      My original comment is stuck in mod, sorry for an eventual duplicate! I have custom trays from my dentist, so no recs for that, but once I’d used up the expensive solution from my dentist’s office, I bought Five Minute White. It has the same active ingredients and I remember it looked/tasted almost identical to the pricey stuff from the doctor’s office. Very effective!

    • Anon

      My dentist recommended Crest White Strips and they did a more than adequate job for me.

    • Anonymous

      I have custom trays and they work the same or less than Crest white strips IMHO.

      Do not do Zoom whitening. I had a horrible experience with that before my wedding. Like in the hours after I thought i’d have to go to the emergency department because I was in so much pain and I’m someone without sensitive teeth normally.

  4. LALALA&Nutella

    Any ideas for a gift for a dear friend on the release of her newest poetry book? I know this book is like her baby and I want to be supportive. Bonus points if the gift supports BIPOC. Thanks!

    • Cb

      Ooh that’s lovely. Could you have an artist do a sketch of the cover? Or your favourite line made into a keychain or something?

    • Housecounsel

      Will your friend be doing readings, virtual or otherwise? When my BFF published a book of poetry I bought her a beautiful “statement” blouse to wear for readings. A statement necklace for this purpose might be nice, too.

    • anon

      For my friend’s first poetry book, I bought an extra copy and had it custom framed in a triptych style with the front and back covers and my favorite of her poems in the center. She loved it and hung it in a place of honor in her house. This idea was also well received by her poet friends when she posted a pic on FB so that made me happy

    • nutella

      Hi, I’ve been going by nutella for a while here, could you change your name to avoid confusion between us? Thank you!

  5. Exposure Q

    If you’ve been exposed to a COVID + person, how much later and how many tests do you need to feel comfortable that you’re not a silent spreader yourself?

    — just quarantine for 14 days
    — get tested
    — get tested and then get tested again X days later

    In my city this week, several people I know are getting tested b/c of actual exposure (some have had sustained exposure and are negative; some more limited exposure and one was a workplace exposure in healthcare, which may be very different in terms of mandating retesting). One is also quarantining. I’ve been around one of them (masked, and not for long / close enough to be personally concerned), but if they test negative, is there any concern that it’s a false negative (or they tested too soon)?

    My city’s rates have been low until now and have spiked in the past several weeks, so we’re learning what you all probably have feelings of certainty about or know the answers.

    • Cat

      When my region had your quandary, only people who had symptoms and had reason to believe they were exposed could even get a test! I would either (1) quarantine for two weeks, or (2) get a test about a week after you were exposed.

    • Anonymous

      14 days quarantined. That’s what’s required in my area and I trust our health professionals.

      • Anonymous

        So it’s wait 14 days and if no symptoms, you just go on about your way? And no test? We are finally getting tests (and if you have been to a protest or in contact with a + person, you are strongly encouraged to get tested, including many city-run free sites), which is good, b/c we are also just now getting a lot of cases.

        I know also that people are getting tested before they have medical procedures, so many people are stumbling onto being + when they had no clue they had ever been exposed.

    • AnonMPH

      Not sure I fully understand your question. But if I’m getting it right, multiple people who you know have been exposed to a COVID+ person. You have spent a little bit of time with one of those people, while wearing a mask, and not very close to them. You want to understand what you should do if the results of this person come back negative?

      I’d say to start- this kind of thing is exactly why we are all going to just have to assume all the time that there is a slight chance that we are currently not showing symptoms but are infectious. There’s always the chance, so definitely mask up when you’re out and about, no non-socially distanced contact with high risk people.

      That said, in this particular situation, if the person that you spent a short amount of low-contact masked time with tests negative for COVID-19, I don’t think there is any significant likelihood that you have been exposed. Remember, for contact tracing purposes, people aren’t considered contacts unless they have spent more than 15 minutes in close contact with someone. Of course, there are possible unlikely circumstances where you could get very unlucky- 1) your contact could in fact have been positive but their test result was a false negative 2) your contact could have gotten tested too early, at a time when they were not yet infected enough to show up positive, but will eventually test positive…3) I’m sure there are others. But all in all, unlikely enough that you don’t need to do anything more than usual, as long as your usual baseline is generally staying away from other people, at least in indoor settings, wearing a mask when you are with people, and not sharing food and drinks.

    • Anon

      False negatives are pretty common. I guess I would use the 14 days indicator; I’ve been assuming after every outing that I could be a silent spreader through accidental exposure.

  6. NYC Lease Assignment

    I’m looking for someone to take over my lease on my NYC apartment. It would be an assignment of my lease through the remainder of the term (April 2021). Does anyone have advice for the best way to go about this (websites that are best to list on, etc)? TIA!

    • Anonymous

      Not sure this is going to happen with the sheer number of people looking to leave NYC temporarily or permanently. There are a TON of apartments out there right now. I’d try to target it on boards that are read by NYU, Columbia etc. students. Who knows if classes go forward in the fall — NYU right now says yes — but if they do, those are outsiders who’ll need places to live. Otherwise there isn’t much going forward right now requiring people to move into the city. Historically investment bankers move to town in June and then biglaw in Aug/Sept — I think almost all of those places are starting virtually and are telling their people they don’t have to move and seek an apartment because when the firms decide everyone comes into the office, they’ll give them a month or two heads up to make the move. So everyone I know in that boat is staying with mom and dad or staying in their law/b school town simply because rent is cheaper and up until recently those places were “safer.”

      • Anon

        Yep I know it’s an uphill battle but I have to try, I’m also out of the city til further notice so just paying rent on an empty apartment. Hoping I can find someone even if I need to go home take a loss on some of the rent

        • Anon

          Look into LLM incoming group at NYU if classes go forward in the fall. But they will probably look to stay until May (or July if they are taking the bar) not April.

    • NY CPA

      Woof. You’re right.
      And as a plus size woman, I can firmly say that wide leg pants only ever make me look MUCH wider. Why do they continue to push these to us, along with skinny jeans? It’s like only the two extremes are offered, and both consistently look horrible (at least on me). No thank you! I’ll take a nice straight-leg or mini bootcut pant any day!

      • Anonymous

        As a person who is mostly leg with not much torso, these make me look photoshopped, in a bad way. Or like a t-rex.

      • Panda Bear

        Same. I despise these. And it is hard to find happy medium pants.
        I do find that full length wide leg pants (often worn with pointy toe flats or heels) are flattering on my cusp size self, but the gaucho style cropped wide leg has never worked.

        • Worried

          +1 if I’m going to wear wide leg pants (on my hourglass. 12/14 size self), I prefer full length wide leg pants. There are some that pull this look off so well and look very hip, but not me!
          I’m wondering what pant silhouettes are in style now? How can an hourglass wear these well? I would love to add a summer pant to my wardrobe, and as a skirt and dress wearer most of the time, I don’t know what looks current. As someone who wears black skinny or straight leg jeans (only when it’s too warm for tights and cold for bare legged skirt/dress wearing) I would love to have a lightweight summer pant for days I don’t feel like shaving my whole leg. TIA!

      • sleep

        Here here

        I am relatively slender, but pear shaped, and they look absolutely hideous on me. So unflattering. I realize I should be more open minded about what the “right” silhouette is these days, and aim for comfort, but the only way I could get away with wearing these is with sky high heels …. and how comfortable is that?

    • Anonymous

      My mom wore gauchos, always with heeled boots, in the early 80s. Everything comes back around.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, styles often cycle back to former silhouettes that were on trend in different decades. These ARE the same as gaucho pants, though this time around they’re worn longer.

      FWIW, I like this silhouette a lot and find it very easy to wear, so I’m happy fashion has cycled back around to it again.

    • Lily

      Haha I have a picture of me during sorority rush in 2005 wearing these exact pants with a cropped cardigan. Not a great look!

      • Delta Dawn

        Oh, the cropped cardigans. Over a fitted, ribbed tank. With these pants, or with dark wash bootcut jeans with a GIANT WIDE BELT. Ah, the mid-aughts….

        • Anonymous

          Lol, I used to wear brown gaucho pants with an orange shirt and white platform flip-flops…EVERY time!

      • Aunt Jamesina

        Hi, it’s me, waving at you from study abroad in Paris in 2005. I’m wearing tan gauchos, a Hollister jean jacket, and a tank top from Express. I’m sure I blend in with the Parisiens!

    • Anonymous

      They make me feel like I am becoming a circa 2005 Olsen Twin. I have slightly cropped black ones and they are much more Office than sweats but just as comfy. I feel that you are on TeamWidePants or TeamJoggers and I’ve never found joggers that don’t make my butt look huge (with wide pants, all of me is large, which bothers me much less, oddly).

      • CountC

        Ha! I am team joggers and team widepants – I love them both. Both are so comfortable!

    • Sloan Sabbith

      Yes. But I’ve found that silhouette can work for me if I’m careful about fabric and the rest of the outfit. I got some cropped wide leg pants at Uniqlo a few years ago on a whim and wear them a lot during the summer.

    • Anon

      They (Gauchos) were never a good look on me.

      I have a jumpsuit that has a lower half like this and it seems ok as part of a jumpsuit (maybe because they’re extremely drapy) but as regular pants that’s a hard no from me.

      I grew up in an area that had a lot of Pentecostals (a religion that has communities here and there, often rural) and the girls could neither cut their hair nor wear pants. So they all wore gauchos and called them skirts. It was one of those technicalities around the rules, like how Orthodox Jews have stoves that leave a burner on for the sabbath.

      • Anon

        The Pentecostal bit seems twisted. Let’s call thing A thing B to satisfy the rules instead of acknowledging that A is practical. But I guess that’s religion.

  8. Anonymous

    Do you think it’s worth complaining to managers (!) of retail or restaurants where staff are not wearing masks? Or just don’t use that business anymore?

    • Housecounsel

      I’d complain, so that the managers understand it’s a real issue for you. If enough people complain, you might effect a change. If you just stop going, the assumption might be that the issue is bad food or high prices, etc.

    • Anon

      I would consider complaining but not in-person. Maybe a phone call after the fact or a Facebook post/message. Also, if it is only one staff member, I would assume that person might have a disability that precludes them from wearing one. My grocery store hires a lot of adults with disabilities. I’d say 95% of the staff are wearing masks so I assume the 5% that aren’t can’t for some reason.

      • Anon

        Just to put it out there.. if it’s a smallish restaurant or retailer, I am so worried about all of their survivals that when I see someone post on Nextdoor or Facebook a public complaint about something minor that could have been potentially instead solved with a phone call, i personally think it is not a good look for the poster. It just seems so insensitive to these businesses that are hanging on by a thread.

        If after a phone call they indicate they blatantly don’t care about people’s health or something else egregious, fine I guess post away. But I would bet a lot of times the owners etc have no idea and would be happy to at least try to correct.

    • NOLA

      I’ve struggled with this myself. After learning that my nail salon was open, I went on a weekday morning to get a pedicure. I was the only customer there, but there were staff wandering around, mostly without masks. The young woman who did my pedicure wore a mask and a shield, but before she started, she wasn’t wearing a mask. It was such an odd experience that I nearly sent them a message. The owner wasn’t there and I’m sure she would have been horrified. In the end, I decided to leave it alone and just not go back until they can get things sorted out. I only get pedis there (I do my own manicures), so I go very infrequently. If it were a restaurant, I would also probably just avoid it. People have been posting on NextDoor about this stuff, and I just don’t know if that’s appropriate. One person was holding up the Walgreen’s as a shining example of requiring masks and having a sign on the door, but all of us know that that store is a total sh!tshow with regard to masks and social distancing. I now only go there when I can check out at the pharmacy and avoid people at the front.

    • Anonymous

      I’d complain and not vote with my feet. I wouldn’t personally care if the business goes under. This isn’t complaining because your bread was a little stale or service slow.

    • Anonymous

      I think you’d be doing everyone a service by speaking up, but I’d also avoid them in the future as I wouldn’t expect sweeping change … but it helps them to have the input that they need to practice safety measures to boost sales vs thinking everyone is staying away regardless or thinking people don’t want masks.

    • Anon

      Absolutely complain, including to corporate if it’s a chain. People are afraid of requiring masks bc they know they’ll get pushback from anti-mask customers — important for them to see that they’re going to lose pro-mask customers.

  9. Kids shoes

    What do you do with kids shoes? I had a woven basket in their shared room (but now we’ve put each kid in a bedroom solo), but it has deconstructed after years of good service and cheap replacements are elusive right now (or I am searching under the wrong term). I could use something like an extra Scout bag that we already have and just want to keep things corralled. Would hold crocs, keens, sneakers, and maybe a pair of fancy shoes or sandals depending on season. If things don’t have a place, their “home” defaults to all over the floor/all over the house and stuff goes missing.

  10. Retro stool / seat thing

    My grandmother had a stool seat with a back that had fold-out legs underneath it so it could become a step-stool (when not used for that, she’d sit on while cooking). I moved into a place with tall cabinets and a full-on ladder is too unwieldy (plus, my feet don’t like it when I am standing all the time in the kitchen). Is there a term for this or a place where you can get things like this? I’m sure my grandmother got hers in the . . . distant past.

  11. Carrie

    Hoping for some birthday suggestions for my brother who lives in Brooklyn.

    I was hoping to send him a little something each day, for a week or so. Would love them to be local treats, that I can either send by delivery or ?task rabbit or even small gift cards to a place that he should try. Like, one day I’d send him one of those awesome cardamom buns from that ?Manhattan bakery. Or even better…. if you know Brooklyn well, some Brooklyn specialties are appreciated. He loves all food.

    He is very depressed with the quarantine, and has had some good friends get very ill and one died from Coronavirus. The one thing that is keeping him sane is getting on his bike everyday and riding. He is a serious biker.

    He also has a girlfriend with two young kids (young elementary aged), so a gift that might be shared with them is also a great idea. His quarantine circle now includes them too.

    Thanks

    • Anon

      I don’t have any suggestions but it would probably help if you clarified bicycle bike or motorcycle bike!

      • Carrie

        Of course – bicycle!

        He was supposed to have his first vacation in years in Europe on a food/bicycling tour, and it was cancelled because of the Virus.

    • anne-on

      Jacques Torres chocolate is in DUMBO and is amazing (cookies, hot cocoa, etc.). What part of Brooklyn is he in? For south Brooklyn Roll n Roaster, Brennan and Carr, and Spumoni Gardens are huge local favorites and I believe are delivering. McClure’s pickles/bloody mary mix/etc. are also great and Brooklyn Brewery offers some really cool merchandise although it looks like their taproom is closed for the moment.
      Otherwise ‘local’ specialties are obviously good bagels, pizza (many ‘great’ spots don’t deliver sadly), black and white cookies, and then depending on his area, the local ethnic specialties (ie – Russian Jewish food in Brighton Beach, Italian food in Bensonhurst, Caribbean food in Flatbush, etc.).

    • Anonymous

      Insomnia cookies? The gift selection is kind of limited, but I think they originated in NYC not too long ago. They’re soft and tasty & would be easy to share.

      As an aside, if they’re trying to practice social distancing etc, sending fewer gifts might be less stressful for them than having to navigate delivery people and common areas like mail rooms frequently.

      • Carrie

        Thanks for your thoughts.

        Yes, he is anxious about the virus, but practical and realistic. He may not pick up packages every day, but is able to wear masks/social distance pretty well… even in his building. He goes out every day to ride, so he can pick up the package on his way back.

        I may spread out the gifts over a longer period though. Good idea.

        • Anonymous

          That sounds great. Celebrating his birthday for the whole month or whatever also gives him something to look forward to week to week.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, where is he in Brooklyn? Lots of places deliver, so it’s kind of an overwhelming question. For treats, you could try Milkbar, Schmackary’s Cookies (in Hell’s Kitchen not Brooklyn but I miss it so putting in plug), Junior’s Cheesecake, …

      I just learned about this Instagram that lists a lot of Black-owned businesses in Brooklyn, including restaurants and a bakery in Prospect Heights that is delivering cakes: https://www.instagram.com/blackownedbklyn/

  12. Token black woman

    TLDR I am the only black woman in the company. I worked on a great piece of work that got published with my picture on it. My inner saboteur thinks my achievement will be seen as a reaction to BLM, so I need scripts for when I post my article on LinkedIn to show that this was in the making for long, I am competent and deserved having my picture in there, and this is not a PR stunt.
    The novel:
    I am the only black woman at my company. We have 10% women to begin with, mostly in support roles.
    Over the past 2 months I worked really hard on writing a great publication. I had written other ones before, and usually they’d get published with only the leadership team’s contacts in the back, so no mention of authors.
    This publication one was much better, and I felt I needed the recognition so I asked to have my name and picture explicitly featured in a special section where I and another person are sharing our viewpoints as experts. The usual leadership team contacts are still in the back with no photos.
    I am keen to share my work with my network, and mostly excited about being named and having my picture on it. But now, I am thinking that if I publish this, many will assume I was a PR stunt and the company needed to feature a black woman. This was hard work for several weeks, I planned for my name and picture to be on it, I am proud of the content, and I happen to be a black woman. Is there any way to convey that when sharing my publication?

    • Anon

      “After several weeks of research/hard work, I am pleased to share this…” 100% hear you that you don’t want it to be seen as a “token” or anything else other than your excellent work. I’ve been noticing a lot more Black models on various clothing store’s websites and I am HERE FOR IT, but so, so hope that the representation continues and is not pandering. A small, cynical part of me is “What took you so long to finally be representative?”

    • Anon

      Could you do what you’re doing here and frame this as something you worked on a long time?

    • Anonymous

      I think most people will give an article you post on linked in no more thought than “yay you”. “So proud of article XYZ which I’ve been working on for two months.”

    • Anonymous

      Don’t let the imposter syndrome talk you out of celebrating this accomplishment and tooting your own horn. Maybe just acknowledge that it has been in the works for a while. Like lead with “After a few months of hard work, my piece on Subject Matter was recently published in Journal – the link is here.”

      I don’t think I would perceive this as tokenish right now. More that companies are embarrassed and finally being like ‘$hit, we should stop ignoring the competent black people who work here’. Like they are finally examining their own biases in who and what gets published most frequently.

      And congrats! Impressive accomplishment in the middle of a pandemic.

    • Monday

      That is *a lot* to try to take on. The assumption that your article and photo would only be published as tokenism is racist, so you’re basically asking how to preempt racist thoughts and responses. It’s terrible that you’re in that position, and I’m not going to deny that some people will likely have that reaction. But I don’t think it’s fair to expect yourself to be able to preempt it. I also can’t think of a way to do so. I’m sure your credentials and experience will be listed, indicating how you earned the publication.

    • Anonymous

      Honestly, framing it as something you’ve been working on for a few months would do nothing to convince me that the publisher didn’t make the choice to print it because of BLM. Can you instead speak to your expertise in the field, degree, achievements, job title, whatever. Definitely not “after months of hard work” because that kind of applies to everyone who’s ever written an article whether it was worthy of publication or not.

      • Anonymous from 11:15

        I didn’t mean to imply that the publisher would publish it for BLM reasons, so I hope that didn’t come across that way. But do think just speaking to your expertise would be better than giving a time period. Presumably you’ve been gathering relevant experience for your entire professional life, so saying it took weeks/months to research this only downplays your achievement

    • congrats!

      First, congrats on your publication, getting published and acknowledge is a big, awesome deal! In my field, everyone knows that it takes time to write or record, edit, etc. the content, so no one would assume that an article of substance that’s published now has just suddenly “come up” in response to BLM. Especially if the subject matter of the article has nothing to do with current events. As far as putting your name and picture on it, again, I would never assume that it’s a token gesture. You worked on it, you’re quoted in it, you get author credit as you should, now you’re sharing on a professional network. Maybe my field is different, but of COURSE you share if you’re featured in an industry publication or conference, it’s expected and no one thinks it’s pandering when it’s not a white dude sharing. The phrasing suggested above is great, “After several months of research and writing, I’m proud to share this piece [link].”

    • Anonia

      How about “I’m excited/pleased to announce that my paper _____, was accepted by (Journal) in (month/date) and will be published in the (date) issue.”

  13. Cb

    I want some trousers for (actual) gardening. Something with a comfy waist, pockets and not too bulky? I’ve been tearing holes in my yoga leggings working in the garden. I’ve ordered 3 pair of overalls and can’t find a pair I like.

    • Jeans recommendation

      Have you heard of Goodfair? They sell second-hand jeans. I would think these are perfect for (actual) gardening. But, I’m cheap and like buying second-hand, especially for clothes that will take a licking. YMMV

    • pugsnbourbon

      Duluth Trading Company’s quality is excellent. I can’t speak specifically to their gardening pants, but their t-shirts, denim and workwear have all held up nicely for my wife and me.

    • Anon

      I am a frequent gardener (literal). I know people are advising jeans but when ever I wear jeans I end up yanking them back up all the time. I used to have overalls I liked but last time I tried to buy replacements all the styles were “skinny” and didn’t have enough give.

      What really works best for me are active pants, like those meant for hiking, sometimes also called technical pants. The directrice calls these action slacks, hilariously..

      They’re the kind of thing REI sells, though I’ve hunted around and found them cheaper. I also like a slightly cropped length because i don’t need to be tripping over hems when digging and mucking around.

      Elastic waist is key. drawstring is ok if in addition to elastic but lot solely drawstring.

  14. Anon

    In the spirit of the frugal friday post above, I love this new MMLF skirt, but since I’d be wearing it for casual wear instead of office wear I’d prefer something less expensive. Has anyone come across any similar styles? I particularly like the flexible waist styling with the option to fold down as needed. TIA!

    https://mmlafleur.com/shop/product/skirts/york-skirt-safari

    • Worried

      Pre- COVID, I walked into and H&M on my way home from work and saw a neat jade green skirt much in the same type of fabric- a heavier viscose stretch. I tried it on, but didn’t buy it as I wanted to check more colours online. Of course it sold out. With H&M you may not see this cycle again for a while but something similar may appear if you check it out now and again,

  15. Anonymous

    I just got a battlefield promotion as part of a corporate reorg (cost driven, but also transformational in nature) and am now head of a department. I previously lead a team of 3 and now will lead a team of 20 across 3 countries. Can you wise women share with me your advice for building a team on a short timeline? I don’t expect to get things right, and know I’ll make mistakes along the way and probably learn a lot of do’s and don’ts from this experience. My biggest concern are some of the employees that have been around for a long time. Our company culture is quite lackadaisical, and the employees that have been around a long time seem unengaged.

    • Anonymous

      Go with your gut. If you’re on the fence about someone, it’s probably a no.

      • Anon

        I would definitely not say “go with your gut” on an on the fence hire. If someone meets what you are looking for and you can’t put your finger on why you don’t want to hire them, sit down and THINK about why your gut is telling you no. Your git can give you a sense that someone is lying on their resume. But your gut can also push you to implicit bias and assumptions with no basis in reality and is how you end up with a homogeneous team and a rotating door of poor hires.

        The “gut” is why some men don’t hire young or recently married women (she’ll leave when she gets pregnant or she’ll distract the team, too emotional, will cause drama), out of staters or foreigners (they’re not from my community they’ll leave or won’t fit in), or POC or religious minorities (not feeling like they can do the work based on ethnicity despite a resume to the contrary).
        Following your gut is why we have a national leader who does not listen to experts.
        Always question your gut.

      • anon a mouse

        Literally was going to suggest the same book before I clicked on the link. I think someone here first recommended it to me. It’s a good audiobook as well.

    • Was once a new manager too

      For the ones that have been around a long time, they might resent you, especially if they’re older than you. Take a 30-minute listening call with them if you can, and ask them questions about what they need or want from you, the department, the company, what their stregths and weaknesses are, where they see themselves.
      Of course it’s no guarantee that you’ll be able to provide everything they want, but they definitely want to feel listen to and valued.

  16. Anon Probate Atty

    Wedding gift ideas please. My husband’s aunt got married via Zoom a few weeks ago and we are late getting her a gift. It’s a second marriage and I think they are pretty set in terms of household “stuff”. We wanted to get her a gift card for her fave Mexican restaurant, but no one remembers the name of the place, not even her son. So that’s out. What else is a good gift for a fun, creative, 50-something couple?

    • Anonymous

      What about a fun class or workshop they can take together like a cooking class (Mexican maybe?), paint nite, pottery class or chocolate making class?

      • Carmen Sandiego

        +1 on the champagne. In a basket with some gourmet nuts, chocolates, crackers, etc. to make it a little extra fancy.

      • Anon

        This reminded me of when me and my Husband got married in our early 30s and lived in a 650 sq foot apt. When we ran out of “stuff” to register for, I legitimately wanted to register for wine and champagne. Long way of saying, I agree!

        How long have they been together? Maybe a vintage from the year they met that might last for awhile? Just to add some sort of extra meaning for it?

    • Anonymous

      Maybe an American Express gift card with some small Mexican themed item and a card saying “enjoy a night out at your favorite Mexican restaurant.”

    • Anon

      If she’s on Facebook, some sleuthing through her check-ins might pop up the name of the Mexican restaurant.

  17. Anon for Friday

    Has anyone else noticed – not necessarily a change, but a magnification, maybe, of personality traits in an aging parent? My mother has always been on the self-centered side, with a great need for attention and adulation (she had a very public career which provided this) but as she ages, wow, she’s turning into a one-woman show. I dread every conversation, which starts with a perfunctory “How are you?” then devolves into a series of news bulletins starring her. She is only interested in her grandchildren to the extent that they do something that provides suitable content for her Facebook page. I have noticed this for a while and have grumbled to my siblings about it, but it recently came to a head when my father-in-law passed away. My mother did not reach out to my husband, my MIL or my teenagers to express her condolences. She asked me how my husband was doing and then moved on to her usual recitation of amusing anecdotes. She texted one of my kids to ask for a restaurant rec in a city the kid knows well – not even hey, I am sorry about your grandpa. This loss is all that my family is thinking about right now, and there wasn’t even an “is there anything I can do? Can I drop off dinner?” I seriously wondered if her lack of concern and inability to converse normally were actually a sign of cognitive decline, but my sister who is an MD doesn’t think so.

    Yes, this is a vent and thank you for reading. But I would also like to know if this is typical. Do people just become more of who they are as they age?

    • Anon

      My mom did this, but it felt like more of a pendulum swing for her, since if anything she took a sort of self sacrificial approach to motherood. My siblings and I joke about her releasing her inner Boomer, but honestly it’s hurtful. She calls to talk, but even when she asks a question, she literally doesn’t listen to the answer. If I bring something up myself, she “sees something out the window” or the dog does something worthy of comment or she thinks someone is at the door. I know she still has my back in many ways and cares about me, but conversationally, it feels like she panics if the conversation strays from the topic of herself, and I don’t understand it. She was absolutely not like this when we were growing up.

    • Cat

      I’m not sure how old your mom is, but mine turned into a petulant, emotional disaster for the course of menopause – we didn’t have a stormy relationship when I was a teen, but I feel like that is the best analogy I can think of. And then one day she snapped back to normal like nothing happened – it was wild.

      • Anon for Friday

        Cat, she is long past menopause but I am just entering it . . . and I will be extremely conscious of how I am acting!

    • Worried

      My husband has noticed this with his mother, and I’ve noticed it a bit more with my parents. My MIL phones him and launches into a monologue for a while and he cannot get a word in edgewise. He tries to interject but cannot, eventually she asks how we are, and when he responds she barely listens, or starts to criticize. I agree she was always a bit like this over the years, but it has gotten worse and occasionally leads to arguments and him dreading phone calls. My parents have always been more fun to talk to, but as they’ve aged and been through medical issues, they seem to use my phone calls to also monologue. I find it usually better when I see them in person. I’ve discussed this with my sister and her take on it is that when people don’t have much to fill up their lives, they expand minute things and start to blow them up. My dad still works from home on complex scientific projects, so I’m not sure if I agree that he needs more to fill up his time. I wish I had more answers. For now I keep in touch and try and hold on to my own boundaries ( though luckily, my parents are much kinder and easier than MIL)

    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry about your father-in-law. I think some people do lose their ability to filter as they age. I also think people handle dying and grief differently. My Dad passed away recently and due to Covid, I moved in to my parents house so my Mom wouldn’t be alone. Interesting to see how people reached out to her in this time and how she reacts to things and processes them now. Living with her at 85, I can see changes in her that I didn’t see through frequent phone calls and pre Covid visits.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, absolutely, people become more of who they are. Especially if you layer stress, loneliness, depression, anxiety, loss of identity, or any other painful or difficult emotions onto any gaps in their emotional maturity.

      Takeaway: do what you need to when you’re young to set your inner life on a trajectory toward peace, forgiveness, joyfulness, gratitude, compassion, and resilience, because you’re going to need to draw on all of it as you age.

    • Vicky Austin

      You say she ‘had’ a very public career. Is she still working? If not, maybe she’s just reacting to the attention-void that retiring has left in her life. I’m sorry she was so thoughtless when your husband lost his father.

      • Anon for Friday

        Yes, she is kind of famous in her niche (think long-ago, much-revered champion of a very obscure sport) but all of her appearances related to this were cancelled due to the virus. She thrived on those and is bored.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      I feel the same way about my in-laws. They were always like that, but now they are moreso, especially my MIL. For them, I think it is boredom, which has been worsened by isolation due to quarantining, plus some other things. Older people seem to think it’s acceptable to dispense with their filter as they get older; i.e., I say what I want, when I want, about whoever I want. This statement applies to my in-laws and also a lot of my older clients. My husband’s theory is that boomers have always been a selfish generation and that is reflected in the way they conduct themselves both privately and publicly, the way they vote, etc. Not sure if I agree, but it’s an interesting theory.

    • Senior Attorney

      Yes! I’ve been saying for a long time that my parents just got more and more “themselves” as they aged, and not in a good way. And I really feel for you on the self-centeredness. I joke that my dad thinks the definition of “how are you?” is “hello, let me tell you about me.”

    • Anon

      Yes, my aging parents just simply ask few questions about me. I find it hurtful. I also am the type that isn’t one to launch into stories or anecdotes about myself without some sort of prompting or questions, so I often feel like they know hardly anything about me. I even have a fairly cool job (IMHO) that you’d think they’d ask me about, but sometimes I feel like they could barely tell you what I do for a living. My brother IS the type that will launch into stories about himself with zero prompting, so I think they all just expect that that is what everyone should do which is maybe fair and I’m learning to try. My parents are otherwise loving, thoughtful people.

      It seems like this is common as people get older. I have wondered if it’s just because you naturally have less people throughout your day to talk about yourself or share stories that happened to you (like no coworkers etc.) and since it’s human nature to want to talk about yourself, when they get a chance to with their kids it’s just an unloading.

      • Kp

        My daughter is like you and it makes me crazy. My mom is a prober/interviewer, and I hated that. Now it feels as if my daughter is forcing me to become my mother!

    • anonchicago

      Yes, same situation here. I think it’s a combination of becoming more of what you already are, cognitive decline, and honestly their world shrinking to their own house, medical issues, and trips to Costco. When you’ve been out of the workplace for 5+ years and done raising kids for a decade or more, I get it can be hard to relate to anything your kids are experiencing.

    • Anon

      Yes– this happened with my father who passed away earlier this week. He was always quite stubborn and self centered, and those traits just magnified more and more as he aged. Some people would tell me about their loved ones developing the opposite personality (i.e., mean people becoming very kind). I wished that would happen for my father, but it never did. He hasn’t asked a question about me or my life in many years, and usually wouldn’t even respond if I gave a life update, unless it was about a mutual hobby. For example, my partner started a pretty cool business last summer, and when I told my father about it, he literally sat there in silence until he thought of something else to talk about. It was frustrating, for sure.

      • Carrie

        This sounds so hard.

        I’m so sorry to hear about your Dad, and for your loss.

    • Anonymous

      I have no advice but I feel this so much. On the bright side, my brother is now seeing a side of our mom that I grew up with but he didn’t (big age gap), and my relationship with him is much better now that he knows how nuts our mom can be.

      Very sorry about your loss.

  18. Working with new realtor

    Having a call this afternoon with a realtor we’re considering working with (first time home buyers).
    Any questions you wish you’d asked/info you wish you’d known about at the start of your relationship? To help weed out bad realtors? (suburban northwest new jersey, if that helps — hot market right now)

    • Anon

      Do not go with a newbie agent. Just spare yourself the headaches. I’ve bought a bunch of houses (long stories) and experience really does make all the difference. Do work with someone you click with.

      • Anon

        Meaning I’ve had disasters with newbie agents that made the transactions way more complicated than they should have been. The times I used experienced agents, everything may not have been smooth sailing, but at least I wasn’t banging my head against a wall (they were banging theirs for me ;) )

      • anne-on

        +1. It is a HUGE help if you have an agent who is experienced and knows the market and the other agents PLUS has good contacts locally. Our agent put us in touch with amazing mortgage brokers (omg can a bad one really slow things down) and good local painters/handymen/etc. We had a ‘new’ young agent while we were half-heartedly still browsing and he was OK but not great, the agent who sold us our home was a total rockstar.

      • Anon

        I agree. Even though my experience with the newer agent was not a disaster, some areas of the process were needlessly stressful.

        On the one hand, she was extremely responsive, very tuned in to finding the exact house we wanted, and could get us in for showings quickly during an extremely hot market in a desirable area. On the other hand, due to her lack of experience, she almost lost us our deposit when sellers dragged their feet and ultimately pulled out of a house we had under contract by failing to file an extension on time. A more experienced agent had to step in to save the deposit. From then on, I felt like I was monitoring deadlines and requirements because I did not trust her to do so, which was stressful.

        All in all, she found us a house we love, but looking back, I think someone with more experience or tenacity/confidence might have done better at negotiating on our behalf and at steering the ship more smoothly.

    • Anonymous

      I would ask how the realtor vets the houses that he/she will be showing you. I hate it when realtors know something is a dealbreaker for me and they show me a house with that dealbreaker because they didn’t see the house first. Such a waste of time and energy. I would also ask how involved the realtor is in the due diligence/inspection period. Given that my work schedule does not allow me the flexibility to go a home inspection, etc., it is great to know the realtor is there in my place.

      • Anon

        Yes preferably someone who lives in the area and can therefore comment accordingly, recommend craftsmen, etc. Yes someone you like and respect. And while confidence is good to help navigate the process and any challenges that might arise, absolutely not someone you feel is going to push you around.

    • Shananana

      How do they like to work? Are they good with you bringing them listings that may not be things they send you? How about scoping out open houses on your own on weekends? Will they be weird about that? I had a great realtor who was open to all of those things, but had a friend really struggle with her realtor on that. What is their availability/how much notice do they need to meet you to see a house? I was also in a hot market and went to see my house the morning it went on the market and had an offer in that day by 5pm. Only works if you have someone who can meet you quickly.

      If you are looking for a house that may need work, I have to say having a realtor who also flipped houses was amazing. If I said things like I wonder what it would take to do x, she knew what it would ballpark cost and how hard it would be to do. She could also help me identify things that would need updated and pointed out important stuff like the age of the furnace and the roof and what that would mean for eventual costs. She was actually about the same age as I when I bought my house (mid thirties) but this had been her life and she knew a lot. Plus was very easy to talk through things with.

    • Anon

      This might not be fair, but given the economic uncertainty right now I’d want someone who was a realtor during the Great Recession or was at least an adult who was aware of housing trends at the time.
      While of course a younger agent likely factually knows what happened then, it is another to have lived through it and be intimately aware of what can happen. I’d be nervous to work with someone who has only experienced an extreme housing bull market.

    • gouda

      Remember that the realtor is not on your side. His or her incentive is to get you to buy a house quickly, with as a little work as possible on the realtor’s part. Also, strongly recommend finding your own inspector, not simply using the one the realtor suggests.

      • MJ

        I strongly disagree with this. My mom is a realtor (has been for 30+ years). Her business is all referrals. She treats every interaction with a long term view, and always has her clients’ best interest at heart. I can’t really walk around in my hometown without people coming up to me and randomly gushing about my mother. My mom makes mid-high six figures every year because she works her tail off and is always available for whatever clients need (to my retired dad’s chagrin).

        I cosign everyone who has said: go with a responsive realtor who is experienced, has a full stable of ancillary service providers (home inspectors, RE attorneys (not mandatory in my state but can be depending on your state), title company, mortgage brokers), and someone who really understands school districts and how schools feed by address because your house being on the wrong side of the street can severely impact value.

      • Anonanonanon

        I think this is part of it regardless, but it may depend on the state. In Florida, most realtors are termed transaction brokers, who have basic duties to you (honesty, fairness) but they are actually tasked with making the transaction happen. They don’t technically owe you any special fiduciary duties.

    • Betsy

      Find out when they prefer to do showings, and don’t work with them if it isn’t when you would prefer to see houses. Even if they promise they are willing to do showings on your timeframe, you don’t want to work with a realtor who is annoyed about the time they are giving you because they will push you to settle faster than you are ready.

    • Senior Attorney

      In every neighborhood there is a realtor who “farms” that neighborhood and knows it inside and out. Find that realtor for the neighborhood in which you want to buy.

    • Anon

      Find out about communication style/preference – things move SO fast in my suburban Boston market. We were texting round the clock at times.

      Find out what they do to make their buyer’s offers stand out – if their answer is a fumble, then pass. My broker would make calls, talk to neighbors she knew (see: importance of a local broker), find out hot buttons of the sellers one way or another, recommend different ways to make an inspection contingency a little more palatable (if you know about the age of the roof you can in your offer waive a retrade based on roof-related issues for example)… anything else like that.

      Beyond that, I think personal fit is huge. Trust your gut.

    • Anon

      You want to know how often they’ll send you listings and the answer should be that you’ll be on the hotsheet and get listings ASAP (basically the system will mail you when new listings fitting your criteria are posted, you don’t want a daily or weekly digest). You also want to know how quickly you can see properties – you want to see anything you are seriously interested in ASAP, you don’t wait for the weekend or whenever because it can be gone.

      Other things you could ask are what kinds of things the realtor points out about the home so you get an idea of what they know and will point out. For example if you see holes drilled in concrete around the house that means termite treatment, taking down a large tree requires a crane and can easily be $5k, why they may have put footers and posts in the basement, how to identify load-bearing walls, etc. You also want someone with a take-charge attitude who will be willing to make the calls to get stuff done.

    • Nesprin

      We recently bought our 1st home in the bay area with a very experienced realtor (who we found by dumb luck). We did all the research on availability ourselves (very very hot market, and we had a limited budget, so we were looking for a project house in a very narrow geographical range), but the actual negotiation process is a lot of work- our realtor wrote 4 offers, and negotiated 2 of them.
      Keep in mind you’re going to be paying this person 3% of your purchase price, so experience, availability and ability to negotiate are absolutely worth paying for. Basically you need someone who you like working with and who can negotiate while keeping your best interest in mind.
      Things to ask: number of sales they’ve successfully brokered, availability and whether they have assistants who can help with showings, who they like to work with (mortgage brokers, inspectors etc), how they research homes in your area, what you can afford, whether you need to consider shortened escrow or no-contingency offers and whether you should expect to go multiple offers.

    • anon a mouse

      If they expect you to sign a buyers agency agreement, make sure you understand what the terms are and how you can get out of it. Friends didn’t read closely and ended up with a 180 (!!!) day agreement – they didn’t click with the agent and ended up finding the house themselves, but the agreement meant that they still owed that agent commission. (they ended up settling for something below full commission, I think.)
      I would not sign an agreement longer than 30 or 45 days in case you are not happy with the service you are receiving and want to switch.

  19. nuqotw

    I want to vent a little. My kids just screaming and grouchy today and it’s only 11 AM and I am mentally banishing them to their rooms until dinner.

    • Anonymous

      In this place too. 3 months and we are just tired. All 3 are going to daycare starting Monday.

    • Anonymous

      Same here. I feel badly because I can’t give enough focus to my clients or to my children. I have been a lawyer for 12 years and worked hard to have a good work/life balance and always felt like while I was at work I was able to focus on work and then once home I was able to focus on my kids. Now there is no balance at all and I suck at both.

  20. Funerals in the time of COVID

    For those who have unfortunately attended funerals during the time of COVID – how were people engaging? A woman I ride horses with was killed in a riding accident last weekend and her funeral is tonight. I am going and will wear a mask, but I suspect some people will be hugging regardless of the recommendation to social distance. I get it, I do, but I am not a hugger in regular times (although of course make exceptions in situations like this so as not to add on to people’s suffering). Were people hugging? Only family seemed to be hugging? I expect there to be quite a number of people there, as she was a former bus driver and a member of the local hunt. This is in central PA, so I also expect a good number of people who have never really “bought” into the COVID precautions.

    I am not an emotional person, so I am somewhat awkward at events like this to begin with!

    • Anon for Friday

      I am in the same boat. My FIL passed away and we are having a memorial service. The number allowed in the church is very limited and masks are required. I don’t think there will be hugging, in part because it’s not a very huggy family, but if I see someone crying I will be find it difficult not to hug. I guess I will ask. If you see someone you think needs a hug, would you feel comfortable asking “are you hugging these days?”

      I was thinking of having a gathering at my home afterward, but now I don’t know what to do. A friend went to a similar gathering recently and told me the food sat untouched because nobody wanted to touch the serving utensils or eat food from big platters. Maybe I could serve box lunches from Panera or something like that? Any ideas would be appreciated, and I am sorry for barging into your thread.

      • OP

        Oh my gosh, please don’t apologize!! I am so sorry for your loss.

        I think hosting a gathering at your home afterward is nice and I also think the box lunches from Panera is a great idea. I think you already know that some people won’t come because of concerns about the virus, and that’s okay. Perhaps when you are noting that you are welcoming people at your home, be preemptive and let people know that you understand if they are not yet comfortable in social gatherings and understand if they are not comfortable joining. I think everything is awkward these days when it comes to gatherings, so telling people up front is a nice and kind thing to do.

        The service tonight is at a funeral home. I suspect they will also only be allowing a certain number of people in at at time, although I didn’t even think of that before! It’s even more awkward because I don’t know her family, I just knew her from the barn, but I still want to show my support. gah

        • Anonymous

          It’s really lovely of you to go. It can be a great comfort for the family to know that their loved one touched many lives in many different ways.

    • Anonymous

      I haven’t, but if you’re concerned, I’d suggest putting your hands to your heart when you offer condolences. It has the effect of looking sympathetic and also blocking yourself off physically from a hug.

      • Carrie

        +1

        This is exactly what I do.

        I would really really avoid hugging, as with crying comes runny eyes/noses/open mouths/saliva etc… Really really not a good idea.

        And yes it is so wonderful if you go. The family will really appreciate it. Even if you don’t go through the line to give condolences. A card later to the family, with a happy memory of your friend would be appreciate so much more than the condolence line. I actually hate condolence lines, and the family often does too.

    • Anon Probate Atty

      My father died 2 1/2 weeks ago. We had the funeral in a church, in which social distancing was strictly enforced, and I thought it was done quite well. A few people hugged outside (my 78-year old stepmother and her friends), but most people did not. It wasn’t awkward to refrain.

    • anon

      My grandpa’s funeral was 1 week ago. :( It felt weird, TBH. We were all in masks, nobody was hugging or touching. We’re not an especially touchy-feely family to begin with, but that felt strange even for us. Service was graveside only, inside of church + graveside. No family get-together afterward. Everyone came for the service and just … left. Normally we’d linger, have a meal together, tell stories, hang out for hours at someone’s house, etc. The lack of normalcy has compounded my grief. I didn’t realize those traditions actually meant something to me until we couldn’t do them.

      I am very sorry to hear about your friend. :(

    • Anon

      My FIL died in May of COVID- -he was at a nursing facility, so none of the family was exposed. That being said, we were a little more OCD than normal. We were only allowed 10 people (including funeral director, rabbi, etc.) at the funeral, so it was just immediate family. We did not have any gatherings after at the house, but some people trickled by and dropped off meals. We also had a memorial service on Zoom and the funeral service was on Zoom.

    • Anonymous

      I went to my FIL’s funeral Wednesday in Mississippi. We did a graveside service but the visitation was indoors. My husband planned it. We live in NYC so have a very different perspective on the virus than many guests. We wore masks the whole time and spread the word that we would like people to wear masks. Not everyone did. My husband did some hugging and handshaking but I felt able to avoid it but just not stepping forward. Honestly it was incredibly stressful and bizarre.

  21. Swim shirt question

    Hi! Going to the beach for the first time in a long time and I am now a pale plus-size mom of 3 boys. I bought long-sleeve swim shirt/rash guards for all 3 boys AND ME – my first time! It’s cute, from target, blue, my color! About $40. I do NOT want to get sunburned – I am TOO OLD for that kind of stupidity! (I have tons of other stupidity I can partake in)

    I just had a weird thought — do these usually come with a built-in b r a or b r a -like shelf? (I am a small size B usually). Am I supposed to wear it OVER my usual tankini top? Am I supposed to wear it over a bikini top?

    I’m definitely over-thinking this but if any experienced rash guard/swim shirt users (especially plus-size) can let me know what is expected or looks good, please let me know. Thanks.

    • Ribena

      Wear it over whatever the top half of your swimsuit is! They’re usually very thin.

    • Anon

      Yes, over a swimsuit usually. I’m an A and even I need more support than a rash guard gives without looking obscene.

    • Anonymous

      +1 to wearing them over your suit (assuming 2-piece; otherwise, will be hard to go to the bathroom).

      For toddler girls, I’ve seen suits that are rashguard + bottom, but for older girls (like “elementary school aged”) and up, you buy a suit and also a rashguard. But so worth it. I have fun, don’t get burned, and don’t GAF that I didn’t spend my months in lockdown doing crunches and side planks.

    • Anon

      Definitely wear it over a bathing suit top. Half the time I wear a sports bra under mine because I’m convinced that some sports bras are essentially the same thing as bikini tops – same fabric and everything but more secure.

    • Anon

      I had such a great swimwear setup on my last beach vacation I wanted to share with you.

      I had a bra size underwire bikini top, matching swim bottoms, swim shorts (loose-ish), a rash guard, and a loose dress. I usually swam with the rash guard on over my bikini top and my usual swim bottoms. I tended to skip on the shorts when out of the water walking around on the beach (I don’t know about you, but wet thigh rub is 100 times worse than dry thigh rub for me.) When leaving the beach I would take off the rash guard and pop the dress over my swim top, bottom, and shorts. It was such a warm environment my swimsuit would have almost completely dried out after not very long on the beach. This was a fine outfit to head our to lunch or drinks directly from the beach.

      So, long story to tell you I recommend a bra sized swim top under your rash guard, and if it fits right, it can be worn as a bra out and about.

    • Anonymous

      I will not swim outside without a long sleeve rash guard. I just wear over my swimsuit. For long days on the water, I actually also have capri length swim pants from TYR. I would much rather look silly than get burnt.

  22. Amber

    Has anyone gotten Botox for headaches/migraines? What was your experience? I am thinking about it – I take treximet for menstrual migraines but for the past few months, have been getting headaches/migraines at other times during the month.

    • anon.

      Following. I used to get only menstrual migraines and now get them so often it’s unsustainable. My doctor told me to take magnesium as a preventive, which helps somewhat, but no Triptan drugs help once they start.

    • Anonymous

      I get botox every 3 months for migraines. It didn’t get rid of them entirely but it has helped a lot. My insurance made me try a few other treatment options before they approved it. It was a pain but worth it in the end. Make sure you go to somebody who specializes in headaches.

      • anne-on

        Same, botox helps when other drugs didn’t (triptans don’t work well for me). BUT ask your doctor about their experience injecting into the areas you have pain in. My migraines are typically occular and my neurologist flat out said he isn’t great at injecting there for symmetry and suggested I go to a dermatologist/plastic surgeon. He was more comfortable doing injections in the head/neck, but on the face he prescribed the shots but would refer to a derm or plastic surgeon for the actual injections.
        There are not many neurologists in my area taking new patients, and it is a pain to go to one doctor for my MRI’s/prescriptions, and another for the injections but it is what it is.

    • Anonymous

      Hi- I got it for about a year and a half at my neurologists office. I found it very effective in combination with my daily cocktail of preventative meds. Its 155 units every 3 months. The injections are all over your forehead, temples, the top/front of your head, back of your neck and occipital area. It starts wearing off earlier than 3 months, but insurance will not pay for it until its been exactly 90 days since your last treatment. This became a pretty big issue for me, getting the appointments scheduled as close to every 90 days as possible was difficult, and missing work that often for a doctor’s appointment was hard. Also the botox treatment itself is pretty painful IMO, but got easier each time. When the CGRP treatments came out I tried that instead- insurance will not pay for both CGRP and Botox. Ajovy is even more effective for me than Botox was, is way cheaper ($5/month under my insurance plan), and its a self administered injection so no messing around with appointment scheduling. Hope that helps, I’ll keep checking this thread if you have any questions!

    • Anon

      I’ve found it very helpful, but dealing with insurance is a big pain. Most plans require having tried at least two classes of preventatives like beta blockers, topamax, or antidepressants before they authorize it and there are constant hassles about it even after that. On my last insurance plan, I always ended up getting it every 4 months instead of every 3 months because my insurance kept screwing up and refusing to authorize it on time. This insurance seems to be better, but I just got my last set of injections denied after I had them because they claim they didn’t know if I have any other insurance. I appealed and presumably it will be covered eventually, but it the meantime I have a $3000 bill…

      I don’t find it very painful compared to the amount of pain I’m in all the time, but it is 30-40 shots in your head and the ones in the forehead can sting and bleed a lot. The back of my head and neck are usually a little sore to the touch later that day and the next, though.

    • Carmen Sandiego

      I get migraines and Treximet was my go to for years! No info on Botox, but they now have nasal spray for migraines, and I find it works fast. Tosymra, if you want to look into it.

    • Amber

      All – thank you so much for your replies – very helpful and I appreciate the input!

    • Migraine anon

      I have gotten Botox for migraines for ~10 years, I believe some of the time before it was officially approved and insurance would cover it. I personally do not find it painful, especially compared to the pain of a migraine, and it literally changed my life and my ability to function without severe pain nausea 24/7. I agree with some other posters that it’s really important to go to a doctor, ideally a neurologist or headache doctor who does this procedure frequently, and also to ice often directly after the procedure or the injections on your face will bruise. You can also ask for Botox to be injected in your jaw if you clench your jaw before/during your migraines.

      I have used nerve blocks and now cgpr inhibitors to bridge the 90-day mark between when insurance will pay for new Botox injections. Let me know if you have questions!!

    • Anon

      I have had migraines since early childhood (now a senior) and have tried everything, including Botox every three months in addition to Trokendi (a time-release version of Topamax). This worked, sorta–reduced the headaches from essentially daily to 2-3 times/month. Now I get a monthly injection of Aimovig–and my life has changed completely. Since I started these, **no** headaches at all (and I no longer take Trokendi or Botox).

      • Amber

        I am so glad you found something that works so well! I cannot imagine what it must be like to be migraine free!

  23. Anonymous

    What are your feelings about experience gifts in light of COVID? BF’s birthday is coming up and he’s moving shortly thereafter. I was thinking of getting him tickets for two for a distillery tour and whiskey tasting near his new location. The distillery is open for curbside pickup, but its tasting room and tours are closed for now and the website doesn’t have an ETA for reopening. I’ll likely bring a bottle as a housewarming gift the first time I visit, so I don’t want to do that as an alternative. Also, he’s stressed about the move so I don’t want to give him stuff that he has to move. What do we think, are experience gifts off the table for now?

    • Anon

      Please don’t give a gift that you know can’t be used and have no idea when it can be used, that’s so rude.

      • Anonymous

        Let’s not call people rude for trying to do thoughtful things. That’s not what the word rude means.

    • Anon

      Mmmmm….If they are not back up and running yet, I would personally not give this. 1) it’s possible they don’t financially make it and then you just threw money down the drain. 2) it’s hard to tell when all this stuff will reopen, what will it look like then….could easily be one of those things that ends up being so long he even forgets he has it, or the new modified way they do the tour isn’t as fun. Also making assumptions about his comfort level (and whoever he brings) doing this even when it opens.

      Sorry.

      • OP

        To clarify, he’s moving in like 2 months so the hope is that they would be open by then, but I take everyone’s point!

        Also just in case it wasn’t clear, his comfort level is totally fine with stuff like this and his guest would be me!

      • Anonymous

        I agree but I lol’ed at “assumptions about his comfort level (and whoever he brings)”… it’s her BF presumably she knows whether he’d be down for this, and he would be bringing her because this is a date. If you give a dude “tickets for two” for a date-y thing and he tried to take someone else, break up with him.

        • Anon

          Sorry I was kind of confused about the post. I thought BF maybe meant Best Friend because the moving and new location and everything made it sound not local, and it didn’t sound like she was moving with him. But point taken.

    • Ribena

      Maybe give a voucher that can be used either for a tour (eventually) or for whiskey nearer the time?

    • Anonymous

      I think it’s incredibly silly to give an experience gift for an experience he cannot have because it is not open.

    • Cat

      Not sure how much you were planning on spending on the tickets, but if he was planning to pack and move himself, I would suggest either movers or packing services as a nice upgrade to the experience!

      I would not give a gift that may or may not be usable now or in the foreseeable future.

    • notinstafamous

      Depending on your budget / his interests, how about something like a service that installs your artwork for you in his new home? Or a cleaning service for his new place once it’s all moved in? Hiring someone for a couple hours to help lift the heavy things? Moving boxes?

      Getting his a tasting at a place that might not open is a bit risky and also means he needs to remember about it / do it later which I know I would find irritating.

    • Anonymous

      Maybe a gift card for a restaurant near his new place? Something easy to grab as takeout before his kitchen is up and running would surely be appreciated.

  24. Kelsey

    Can anyone here who has dark hair and eyes but is pale to medium (East Asian descent) recommend a good eye shadow color for daytime/office?

    • Panda Bear

      Similar coloring and I like the Urban Decay Naked 2 basics palette. They are neutral, matte and blend very well. If you like a shimmer finish, I also love their single shades in snatch (peachy pink) and baked (coppery brown).

      • Anon

        Wow, snatch is not a great name name for a makeup color. I think I have an UD lipstick where the shade is called “ladyflower”so maybe they have a theme going…

      • Junior Associate

        +1 to Urban Decay Naked 2. Bobbi Brown long-wear cream stick shadow also works for my monolids: combination of Sand dune / Bark or Goldstone / Bark .

    • anonnn

      I’m South Asian, but use light gold with a little shine on the inner third of my eyelid (not on my tear duct because i feel like that makes me look too innocent/doe-eyed for work) to brighten it up and make me look awake and then a matte taupe in my crease. Both colors I use are from the Lorac Pro palette (I use the Lt Bronze and the Taupe). I use my ring finger to pat on the shimmer gold color and a brush for the matte in my crease.

      Either the champagne, nude, or Lt Bronze shimmers in that palette would probably work for your coloring with maybe the taupe towards the outer corner depending on how you do your makeup. Or the Deep Purple smudged into your lashline.

  25. Anon

    Any gift ideas for a 60 year old man’s birthday? He loves ancestry.com and genealogy but has already done the ancestry DNA kits. TIA!

    • Anon

      If he hasn’t done the 23 & me DNA kit that’s a good gift. The user base will be a little different so he might find relatives that aren’t in Ancestry. My mom is really into genealogy and she loved both kits.

    • AP US History major

      History books about the period his ancestors emigrated/immigrated? Like Albion’s Seed or something about America?

    • Anon

      NYTimes store. There are things like puzzles of the front page from the day you were born, books of every front page of your birthday since birth, etc. It’s a great way to look at history with a fun birthday slant.

    • Anonymous

      This is pretty specific, but online some countries and jurisdictions will allow you to buy credits to download copies of official documents for genealogy research – Scotland comes to mind. Downloading docs gets expensive since you often don’t even know if that document is for YOUR relative! Might be a fun gift. I’d appreciate it as a genealogy buff.

    • Anon

      One of the best gifts I’ve received in this vein was a history of the land where I live. I’m not really interested in genealogy, but the land history is sort of adjacent to that and might be of interest. Depending on where you live, there might be some good books that make sense of some of your local oddities. I’ve given many people Craig Pittman’s “Oh, Florida!” as a gift and all have really enjoyed it. You can’t go wrong with #FloridaMan!

    • Anon

      I have no suggestions, but I do have a related story. The best gift I ever got was from a history buff friend of mine and they researched previous inhabitants of my old historic home in excruciating detail and then gifted me the results.

  26. notinstafamous

    Any recommendations for career coaches to help a midlevel Biglaw associate figure out next steps?

  27. Anonymous

    Ever since college so +25 years I have had a problem where a feeling of dread washes over me like a mist rolling in off the ocean. It’s very uncomfortable. Imagine thinking you are going to have major surgery or have to do a huge presentation to a thousand people tomorrow. When it first started I told my doctor who did an EKG, blood sugar tests, thyroid tests, everything he could think of and told that “there was nothing organically wrong with me”. So I just lived with it. In my mid-thirties did the same drill with a new doctor many tests, nothing wrong.No other commentary. After consulting Dr Google it could be general anxiety. I told my doctor about it again now in my fifties and she told me to take calcium which is not working. I already exercise a lot and keep busy to distract myself. Did anyone else have this and did you figure out how to make it better?

    • Anon

      I have that too. Exactly like that, a wave. I now take a low dose beta blocker, which I originally started taking for a mild arrhythmia, which is now fixed, but I don’t want to go off the drug because it helps with that (which I call anxiety episodes) too. I told my doctor about this and she agreed the beta blocker may be helping.

      • Anon

        There is a lot of new technology for monitoring arrhythmias these days. The local research university’s cardiologist recommended a hand held device that can record skipped heart beats, for example, and the app can share them with the doctor. This could be a lot easier to test whenever it happens than it used to be.

    • Traveler

      I get into this mode…. I find that taking high dose B+C+D multi-vitamin + SAD light in the winter makes a huge difference in this regard, even though everything measures up in the normal range by the Dr.

      • Formerly anxious

        This. Please ask your physician for a referral to both therapists, psychologists, social workers, and also psychiatrists (MDs). You do NOT Have to feel this way all the time – it is (apparently, news to me!) NOT normal to always feel afraid that the other shoe is going to drop. You don’t *have* to feel like that. Please, ask a specialist in the field of anxiety (your general physician or ob gyne is NOT a specialist, but likely knows some.

        Good luck and socially distant internet hug. You’ll be ok, I promise.

      • Anon

        I thought the idea was that it felt like the dread one feels when one is anxious over some upcoming circumstance, but that it’s happening without any psychological situation that could explain it?

        Maybe I misunderstood the OP. If there really is a huge presentation or a major surgery, then I agree it would make sense to consider therapy.

    • Go for it

      Homeopathic stuff works for me, currently using Rescue Remedy. I put the drops in water & sip it on the rough days. The first two weeks of things shutting down (east coast city) and rules constantly changing it was a lifesaver!

    • Anonymous

      You could try researching the phrase “sense of doom” or “sense of impending doom” as a medical symptom or in psychology. I found this phrase was an accurate way to describe the feeling. Also pay attention to the circumstances during which you get the feeling as their could be a link to some trauma or perhaps be something a therapist could help you work out.

      If you think it’s anxiety or potentially mental health related, I highly recommend consulting a psychiatrist. Obviously you’re comfortable speaking to doctors about this, so why not discuss it with the type of doctor best equipped to deal with this symptom?

    • Anon

      Whenever a doctor has told me that there’s nothing organically wrong with me, they’ve been wrong. To me this almost sounds like a seizure.

    • Anonymous

      This happens to me too. I also get a bit short of breath. It’s anxiety, for me at least. I’m on a low dose of Wellbutrin and I almost never feel this way anymore (at least without good reason – I still feel that way if I ACTUALLY have a big presentation, etc.).

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