Coffee Break: Jergens Natural Glow

183 Comments

1. My family staged a mini-intervention last week about my work/life balance. They are right. I’ve always loved working and get a lot of my self-esteem from crushing it at my job (I have been the youngest / first female a lot of things in my state/firm). I want to start by a) giving myself more time to complete projects (“Sure, I’ll do that by Friday” –> “Sure, how’s the next couple weeks?”) and b) identifying projects to delegate/train others under me, who do work set hours.

   If you can think of other low-hanging fruit to help get me into better habits, I’m all ears. I don’t have any words on the wall or photos of humans in my office, but have thought about a screensaver or other “reminder” about values.

   1. Is this your family (partner and kids) or your family (parents and siblings)? I’m curious about how much you want to lean out and how influential your family is — and what the “better habits” they want you to adopt are.

      That said — from a family standpoint, is there one weeknight that they want your full attention? Can you commit to (some number of hours) with them per night, or per nights a week and ensure you meet that schedule?

      1. Also my question. Are we talking, your spouse and kids aren’t seeing you enough? Or is it, you’re a grown woman with old-fashioned parents and man-child brothers who expect you to cater to them? (Obviously there is middle ground, just making a point here.) Context is needed.

   2. I suggest taking a time management or project management class. Each class like that has given me useful ideas.

   3. Your family staged an intervention. A screensaver ain’t it.

   4. Limit how much you check email when you’re not in the office. My email does not give alerts or popup messages. Once I get home, I am with my family. I check email exactly once after I tuck my kid in (between 8 and 9), handle it, and then I start winding down for bed myself. If someone hasn’t emailed me by 9, they’re not going to get the best me responding anyways. In the mornings, I don’t check email until I get to work and can manage my inbox while I go through emails. On weekends, I check my work email maybe twice a day. My bosses and best clients do know my cell phone number but only use it when something can’t wait until the next day.

      1. I have the same no-notification setup with my work email at home. if it is urgent (I practice criminal law) people can reach me via text or phone call.

   5. Schedule non-work activities after work and don’t let work push into them. Perhaps a couple of hours one evening are reserved for a nice drink and a book. Make meal times official breaks, not distracted breakfast while reading emails for example.

   6. Huh. Have you thought about unpacking whatever’s going on here with a therapist/life coach? If you don’t have kids or a significant other who are depending on you, and you enjoy killing it at work, it’s your right to work as long/much as you’d like. But if you’re doing it because deep down there’s some insecurity/unmet need/whatever, then that’s worth examining. But your phrasing about not having photos of humans, therefore “values” are off, and about needing “better habits,” is peculiar.

   7. Therapy would be helpful in understanding WHY your job is so central to your identity and self esteem. I know it is a cliche but there is a lot to unpack here.

      1. +1. Taking pride in your work and working a lot is one thing; wrapping your self-worth up in your job is another.

   8. “Low hanging fruit” ha…start by eliminating corporate speak from your personal life.

   9. I have a lot of questions that I would want to understand to give better advice. But I do want to say that it’s ok to love work and work a lot. I truly love working and the work I do. I worked in BigLaw (brutal hours) for many years and am now in house. I love my friends and family, but work fills specific needs that they do not – team building, strategic thinking, stretching skills, building a consensus, the satisfaction of completing a big project, etc. Could I satisfy those things individually with a million hobbies? Probably. But it’s a lot easier and more enjoyable to satisfy them through work for me.

      I am a great daughter, friend and wife, and I expect I will be a great mom when I have kids. The key for me is never overcommitting at work or in my personal life. So I don’t make plans when I know I’ll be busy at work and might need to cancel on friends/family. I make an effort to keep in touch (texts, calls, emails, Snapchat, etc.) asynchronously. I also don’t let work intrude on protected time (vacations, etc.).

      In terms of setting better boundaries at work:

      1. I’ve started asking people when they need work done. They used to send it to me and I’d offer to complete it in a short time frame but it turns out they often don’t need things for a week or two.
      2. I have set hours in which I respond to emails. I do not respond outside of that in an emergency.
      3. I have a weekday routine that helps me keep track of when to start/stop working.
      4. I delegate work where possible within my department, or, more often, when it’s not something that should be coming to legal at all (I get a lot of requests for non-legal help that I’ve stopped doing).

2. Talk about dodging bullets at work – my best friend’s job in a conservative industry in a deep-red state is ending this Friday (contract job). She just got an email that they are dropping the mask requirement for the office starting Monday. Vaccine rates in her county are ~25% at best, the risk level is considered “very high,” cases are up 65% from last week, and the entire office is peopled by anti-science covidiots (literally people who think the vaccine is a gene-editing conspiracy and that social distancing is a liberal scam). I’m so, so, SO thankful she’s out of there and that this job ending is a blessing in disguise (she is too).

   1. great news for your friend!

   2. Those deep red states are jokes, and the smart people in there need to move and let the morons burn themselves out.

3. Probably a weighty question for a random Tuesday afternoon — but how is your mother daughter relationship, as I sit here trying to figure out what is going on with mine. My mother is the most important person to me (I’m single) and yet there are times where she is just SO MEAN that I find it breath taking. Like things that you’d never say to a coworker or neighbor, she’ll say to me. I’m expected to never take offense because she is THE PARENT. Yet it’s like really!? Yet I don’t mean to suggest we’re at each other’s throats all the time — we have a lot of fun too. But then she has no problem turning around and calling me lazy (I am anything but). She definitely has one of those — I know everything about everything personalities that you must agree with; she considers HER family (like her siblings etc.) to be a cut above the rest because they come from money etc. As I’m getting older, I’m more over it and more likely to argue with her about things — I went thru a lifetime of just saying nothing/being quiet but now it’s like wow this hurts my feelings. I never win of course but at least she knows I’m not happy and not sitting there agreeing with her.

   What makes mother daughter relationships like this? Do dads and sons have this type of friction?

   1. My mother was like this because she was a mean drunk and drunk every day. I’m so sorry you are going through this. It’s so hard. I think the things she hates in herself come out at you.

   2. Yeah so this isn’t all mother daughter relationships, it is yours. And if you want it to change, you’re going to need to do some hard work in therapy.

   3. Feel free to skip if this does not apply. I trust you know your situation better than the rest of us could ever. Also, I am not advocating for nor am I trying to armchair diagnose. But.

      Gently, I think this situation may be less about m/d relationships and more about being in a loving relationship with someone who may be experiencing some level of mental illness or a personality disorder. I say this as someone who has witnessed a similar relationship between my DH and his mother, and she displays characteristics and behaviors of narcisissm and BPD. It is very hard for my DH. Doesn’t stop him from fundamentally loving and caring for her, but it certainly presents challenges, anomolies, and differences to how and whether he approaches certain interactions.

      I wish you the best in this relationship. It’s hard. A thousand internet hugs to you.

      1. This. OP you described a mother with a cluster B personality disorder. Now, no one can diagnosis this without being a professional who treats your mom. However, as someone in the same position, I would gently recommend unpacking this with a therapist of your own.

   4. I don’t think it’s a mother/daughter thing vs father/son. It’s simply not a good familial relationship. I’ve seen similar with fathers to their kids too. If she is hurting you, you don’t have to put up with it, whether that means calling her out, leaving the situation, etc.

      I have a good friend with a similar relationship, and she…just isn’t willing to do it anymore. She will help coordinate help her mom needs, or even sometimes pay for things her mom has asked for help with (vs coming over and doing the task herself). She will still see her mom for scheduled activities, but they drive separately, and it’s not super frequent. If her mom can’t behave appropriately, she leaves, because nobody deserves that kind of treatment, especially from someone who is supposed to love you.

   5. I’m sure you know this, but this isn’t a normal relationship, parent-child or any other kind of relationship. This is a “why is my mom the way she is and how do I deal with it?” thing that really only you and a therapist can answer together.

   6. I have a non-relationship with my father (of the “further contact is resulting in a restraining order” variety) and a bad relationship with my mother. Both stem from the same place: they are used to being “the parent”, in control, and do not think I have a right to assert boundaries. At this point, that’s their own problem.

      “I never win of course but at least she knows I’m not happy and not sitting there agreeing with her.”

      You can’t win an argument with people who think they have a right to hurt you. (I’ve tried. It always fails.) You don’t win; you hang up the phone, you leave, you refuse to deal with her until she cuts the crap.

      1. ‘You can’t win an argument with people who think they have a right to hurt you.’

         Thank you for this. I needed to hear this today

         1. You’re welcome. You also need to hear it tomorrow and the day after that.

      2. Wow. Thank you for this

   7. No, that’s just you. My own mother is crappy in her own specific way. She’s an anxiety-ridden codependent doormat for my dad’s decades of verbal abuse. She’s also quick-witted, delightfully sarcastic, and highly educated. I try to be the best version of me, to coax out the best version of her.

      1. Sister, is that you?!

         Solidarity.

   8. In my family, people take out all their life frustrations on the person they know (or assume) CAN’T walk away. Most often that is the kids. We’re Asian — kids take a lifetime of verbal abuse from parents and are still there living exactly the life the parents want and taking care of the parents in their old age; though those old school Asian parents better watch out, more and more you see Asians in their 30-40s, often after marrying outside the culture but not always, kind of saying ok well I don’t need this and just not being as “dutiful.”

      So yeah you take out every possible frustration on your own kids who are never good enough but you are SWEET AS PIE to your siblings, cousins, nieces and nephews and their spouses because you 100% understand that they aren’t going to put up with your criticism or yelling or whatever, they don’t need you and aren’t emotionally tied to you the same way. It IS mean. OP you can love them but step back — live your life, travel and let them know after the fact etc; I find less involvement helps — they act hurt — but don’t understand that you stepping back is because when you let them in too much, they find reasons to be mean.

   9. Uh, yea, my mom is like this because she is a narcissist and makes everything about her/how it reflects on her. We have contact (have gone no contact in the past after she’s done tremendously hurtful things) but it is very surface level and I give her no ‘ammunition’ so to speak – she knows what I’d post to facebook or talk to a neighbor about, nothing much deeper, nothing about feelings/family issues/etc.
      I would strongly suggest therapy – this does not sound like a normal ‘some stress with my mom’ relationship, and the sooner you can learn that it is NOT you, along with someone to help you process your feelings about that (I definitely had/have a lot of sadness/grief that I don’t have a ‘fun’ or heck, even deep relationship, but that’s not on me).

   10. In my family dads and sons do have friction and distant relationships. Usually it stems from dad’s definition of “success” — usually workaholic; tons of money; doctor or lawyer etc. Son doesn’t pursue that and dad sees him as forever a failure which offends son. Very cat’s in the cradle. Or son DOES become a dr. or whatever but is an even better husband and father, present for his kids, taking paternity leave, changing the diapers, going to school plays and dad thinks that’s “lazy” — he should be working harder, not wasting time at the 2nd grade play that his kid won’t remember; honestly I think it becomes an in-grandpa’s-face that his son is a better dad than he was type of thing.

   11. You could probably use some help setting boundaries if you want to maintain your relationship with her. She feels free to be blunt with you. Be blunt with her in return. “Mom, I’m leaving now. I enjoyed ____ with you, but when you call me names like ‘lazy’ it ends the conversation for me.” And follow through. Leave.

       Address it when it happens instead of stewing on it.

       Know your worth, know your boundaries, and enforce both.

       1. +1

          You are an adult and just because you’re single it doesn’t mean she gets to treat you that way.

   12. Ok so I’m the mom here, my daughter is a young adult. She is ultra-woke, basically the Gen Z poster child. I’m more liberal than probably 90% of the US (I’d fit right in in much of Western Europe) but not liberal enough for her. She’s still my dependent as she’s in college, so it kind of chaps me when I’m paying for literally everything in her life and she comes homes and criticizes many things about me, my views, and my lifestyle. Sometimes I can’t wait for her to leave and go back to school, but the minute she leaves I miss her. My sister reminds me that the frontal lobe is not fully developed until the mid to late twenties and that helps me with perspective.

       Just in case this view from the other side is of value to any of you! My own mother died many years ago (PSA #smokingkills) and we had our own issues but not this particular one.

       1. Different poster — that I do understand — when you pay for every single thing in a kid’s life and they have no/minimal life experience but know everything about everything and criticize you, I can see why that is rude and then maybe you snap at the kid. But my situation is actually REALLY similar to OP’s from what I can tell. I haven’t taken a single dollar from my parents in 15 years and I pay for my own life. I also don’t criticize her like she criticizes me. I’d never say she was lazy or looked awful (like not clothes but the face itself – and actually I would never even say if her or anyone’s clothes did look awful) or whatever. I’d never say those things to anyone. The prior poster above is right — parents get SO comfortable about being blunt that it’s like they can say anything and not think about how hurtful it is and if you dare get upset then it’s well I’M THE PARENT, I will say what I want. I’m always left with if you wouldn’t say it to a random coworker at work that you don’t even like, why would you say it to someone you supposedly love??

       2. Wow your daughter deserves to be cut off. I’m probably similarish in views and age to your daughter (but I actually practice what I preach unlike the super woke). I never
          ever criticise my moms lifestyle AND I paid my own damn tuition, rent, expenses, etc.

          1. Yeah, I wouldn’t put up with that either. Pay your own way, since you’re perfect and everyone else is an a-hole.

             1. Tell me you don’t understand unconditional love without telling me you don’t understand unconditional love.

                She’s a kid FFS. They all go through asshole phases. Don’t become a parent if you don’t have the ability to cope with it.

             2. Unconditional love is for the terrible twos, not for grown adults who could support themselves.

             3. +1 to 6:06.

             4. +2

       3. I’m unclear as to why you think this is “the other side.” I treated my parents with a lot of respect, for which I got nothing but condescension, cruelty, and power trips. As a mother, I could not imagine treating my son the way my family of origin treats me. A lot of my attraction to my husband is how calm and loving he is; he doesn’t treat people like that, either.

          What “other side” is there? Do you think my parents should tell me that I deserve to be dead because of some imagined slight or another? That’s happened. Do you think that I deserved 25 years of my mother making nasty comments about my body because – first time I ever let one word about her weight pass my lips was September 2020 – she has issues with her own obesity and polices my body as a way of making herself feel like she’s in control over bodies? Do you think I deserved to be nine years old and have my father and sister relentlessly mock me for being a nerd because “you can’t be a professional student”, because his father went to Harvard and he hasn’t lived up to it? (I literally had no aspirations of that and didn’t even know what it meant.)

          Curious as to the “other side” you think you’re describing.

   13. I had a similar relationship to this with my parents (except I don’t remember us having much fun, either).

       Honestly, I’m still working on it all in therapy. They’ve both passed away now, but in the end I realized the stuff they’d say to me was more about them than it was about me and that it was so terrible being around them, it wasn’t worth it. I did not make much of an effort to see them outside of designated family events or if they really really needed something that truly no one else could (or would) provide. I’m not saying that type of relationship is right for your situation, but it was right for me. After a lifetime of being hurt by the people who were supposed to love me the most, it was a choice I needed to make for my own mental health. I tried telling them not to talk to me that way or that it hurt my feelings when they’d say negative things about me, and it never changed.

       For my situation I don’t think it was a mother/daughter thing (it was from both of my parents, and they both did it to my brother as well), as much as a living-with-narcissists thing.

       Sending good thoughts your way while you figure out how to navigate this. It stinks.

   14. Hey there,
       I feel you and your struggle. My mom doesn’t seem to be as hurtful as yours, but I think we have a similar dynamic where we are very close and enjoy each other’s time usually, but there are also times where she seems to be completely oblivious to the ways she is hurtful and hypocritical (i.e., it’s ok for her to have an outburst but totally not OK for me to have strong negative feelings).
       I think what I’ve had to learn is that I have some kind of idealized version of our relationship in my head, but need to see and appreciate what our relationship actually IS. Which would include taking steps back when I need to, setting boundaries, allowing myself to say no to time together when I’m not up for it, not needing to have her clued into every detail (aka putting her on an information diet as needed).
       I’m a recovering “good child” for sure.

   15. I don’t have the answers for this but you are not alone. My parents split early and I grew up both emotionally close to my mom (who never remarried) – verging on enmeshed – and with her as my only parental figure. My mom can be fun, smart, interesting, kind. She can also be emotionally abusive, verbally abusive (you’ve been called lazy; I’ve been called every form of selfish). My mom flys into rages sometimes, yells very cruel things that she later forgets and expects me to forget/let go. Over time I have come to see my mom as emotionally immature, and to put her behavior in that context, but I have to tell you it wasn’t until I was in my 30s that I really came to grips with the fact that she will never be the mom I want/need her to be. In honesty, it took me about a year to grieve the mom I kept waiting for, and it was isolating/devastating/painful. All I can suggest is therapy (FOR REAL) and finding other sources of ‘mothering’ in your life – that means people who love you unconditionally, caretaking (outsourcing counts!), meeting your basic needs in a loving way (cooking with friends?), and real female role models/mentors.

   16. This isn’t normal. Your mom is cruel and mean and you don’t have to put up with it just because she’s your parent.

4. Please help. My employer has done a whole bunch of inclusivity/diversity etc training which will be culminating in a huge meeting where every staff member needs to contribute, speaking is mandatory. This backs me into a corner where I either need to label myself white oppressor or disclose my disability and that I’m not infact white, I just look like it. I really don’t know what to do, I intentionally hide these things for self protection. Why do I either have to be evil or share deeply personal information. Knowing myself I’m probably just going to spontaneously cry and not actually be able to talk at all.

   1. it feels like there is a large range in between those two examples you note. what if you acknowledge that there are definitely systems that systematically oppress groups of people, racial inequity is a real thing, and it is important for us to all do better, and one example of how that might look like at work is if the team reflected the customer demographics? im a non-Black POC and I wouldn’t necessarily feel compelled to share deeply personal examples but would speak to the systems instead

   2. I would be out of office on the day of that meeting.

      1. +1 food poisoning or close contact with a covid case lol.

   3. You are absolutely right to not want to participate in this. Sharing protected characteristics, such as disability status, with your employer opens up the possibility for discrimination. I strongly support you saying “I am not comfortable sharing private information,” on repeat if necessary. Just remember, they CANNOT force you to speak and share anything you don’t want to. They can require to to be present – but no one can force you to open your mouth and say words.

      – “But Susan, everyone is sharing their disabilites right now.”
      – “I’m not comfortable sharing private information.”
      – “But we want everyone to participate.”
      – “I’m here and participating in the conversation, but I am not comfortable sharing private information.”
      – “But – ”
      – “I’m not sharing private information.”

   4. Pick a bland topic like the importance of having allies.

   5. Oh heck no. NO NO NO. Refuse. You can “contribute” by saying that you hope all workplaces take important steps to combat discrimination. You do not need to “contribute” private details that have nothing to do with your ability to do your job.

      1. +1 this is not the situation for self disclosure

   6. You don’t. Stop being so dramatic. This is work. Pick something that you’ve learned from the training, restate it benignly.

      1. If everyone else in the room self-identities in some way, it’s still going to stand out. I’ve seen people jump to conclusions about people in situations like this (e.g., that they’re less enthusiastic because they privately oppose equality, etc.).

         1. Right — I’d be worried about getting called out or noted for being silent or for being “difficult” in any way.

   7. Can’t you just say something like, I learned a lot of interesting things in this training, here is a thing that especially was interesting to me/changed how I think about things. I’m not sure why you think you have to share something personal or something about your identity – I would think the goal of a meeting like this is to assess what people have learned.

      1. I do this.

   8. I am confused by this. Will all your white, non-disabled colleagues be required to self-declare as oppressor? What about being an ally?

      1. It’s based on Diangelo’s white fragility which is why there is the dichotomy.

      2. My workplace had one of these and nothing short of “I have learned I am a racist (ally is NOT an option) who should be ashamed of my existence and I feel personally responsible for benefiting from a system of white oppression. I am so sorry and I know nothing I do will ever be enough to make up for it and I feel terrible but I am committed to doing everything I can moving forward” is good enough for white (or white appearing) participants.

         To be very clear I am not saying all of these diversity seminars are like this but the person who did it at our office took White Fragility and (hopefully) mangled its actual message.

         So your options are (1) play along and say what they want to hear. It helps to sit near the end and mirror what other people say; (2) tell them you are disabled/not white (although in mine being white appearing was enough); or (3) be absent for some completely unimpeachable reason.

         Good luck. It was very unpleasant and probably did more harm than good in my workplace.

         1. Can you schedule your COVID vaccine during the seminar?

         2. I wonder if our training is being hosted by the same person, because this is exactly what is going on. Which is why I can’t just give corporate fluff language and move on.

      3. Just wanted to chime in as a third (or more) voice on here to say I’ve sat through one of these in the last year at work, and yes, it did boil down to the dichotomy and everyone white having to declare a group they were biased against and apologize for it. That’s not hyperbole – that’s what actually happened. The conversation was SO specific and formulaic that any attempt to benignly state a lesson learned or a general contribution would have been notably out of place.

         1. We weird as it is to say I feel so much less alone that I’m not the only one who has faced this insanity

         2. How is this not an HR disaster waiting to happen?

   9. Can’t you contribute without doing either? I’m very confused by your post. I have invisible disabilities too. If I had to talk about inclusivity I would talk generally about how certain changes can make the workplace more welcoming to people with disabilities. I could do that without saying that I have a disability. Could you thank the company for taking on this issue? Even if you are a member of an oppressed group, you can still have internal biases. Like when women think they are less than just because they have been told it for so long. Could you say something like “this training has helped me identify common pitfalls and I will be mindful of subconscious bias going forward?” That language could mean mindful of your own or mindful of someone else’s towards you. Are you saying that every white person is a bad oppressor or is this something the training is asking you to say? I don’t understand that part either.

   10. Can you just be so overcome with emotions that nothing comes out? Something b/w an ugly cry and being very verklempt and waving around your eyes so the tears don’t come out? Not that you would be, but that gives you cover b/c OMG this is bad but I suspect not rare. Something poorly done is worse than nothing.

       1. White woman tears is a thing to be aware of in the context of this type of meeting, so I would not do this and especially not as an act. It’s centering, and if you’re faking, it’s kinda obnoxious. (I get that OP is not white but apparently others perceive her as white.) I’m assuming you’re a woman since you’re posting here, so can you say you’re perceived as white (you don’t have to actually say you’re not) but in an oppressed group on the basis of gender, and you’ve been interested to learn about the concept of intersectionality and how these different facets interact in the context of the workplace? Keep it vague.

          1. Yes to this-absolutely do not cry! Especially for a woman, crying is specifically called out as being an attempt to make this about you and not about what an evil person you are by virtue of being/appearing white.

             I wish I was kidding. I really am not.

   11. This doesn’t make any sense – you won’t have to share about your disability or race. What exactly are you being asked to share? Can you talk about a training you like ? I can tell this is causing you a lot of anxiety but if you want to share the prompt I’m sure we can help you write something non personal. (And no one is labeling white people in the work place as white oppressors)

       1. IDK — if it is higher ed or related, it could just get crazy. I used to be in residence life, where we spent a shocking amount of time on the wording of things (like posters; not license agreements, which is what students signed instead of leases) and not nearly enough on things related to our mission, which was providing functional housing (so: dealing with roaches and other unsavory critters; plumbing; electrical things) and related services (key cards, laundry, recycling, vending machines) and dealing with human interactions (staff, contractors, student interactions). I feel like no other housing entity would function like this and last. We could have taken the $ spent on training and consultants and paid our least-paid hourly housekeeping workers better, but of course not.

       2. You might be asked to do exactly that. That’s what happened to a class of first graders in Cupertino not long ago. The parents were absolutely livid.

       3. Google Jodie Shaw and come back and tell me no one is labeling white people in teh work place as white oppressors. You are sadly behind the times.

          1. Lol Jodie Shaw quit her job after being told not to rap to students. Hardly labeled a white oppressor

             1. Obviously haven’t heard her entire story. Cute though.

   12. You email HR and tell them that many of these statuses are protected classes that do not have to be disclosed to the employer, let alone to one’s colleagues, and as well intentioned as this is, they should rethink the mandatory discussion. Alternately, the scope of the mandatory discussion should enable those who are members of protected classes to contribute in a way that does not involve disclosing it or pretending that it does not exist.

       1. I’m sure that this would just get noted in her personnel record, not in a good way.

   13. Making speaking mandatory is such a terrible idea. I have never seen that go well in any context.

       Is anyone really asking you to label yourself an oppressor or victim, or is that your worry about this forced contribution talking? I would just say, “I really appreciate the statistics about [something from presentation]. I also realized that I would like to know more about [issue] and will seek out voices from people dealing with [issue]” I would not reveal any personal information.

   14. “I’ve learned so much from our inclusion efforts and appreciate that it will change me and my perspective beyond the workplace”
       Then sit down

   15. There are a lot of good options here.

       As someone with an invisible disability and who is mixed, but reads as white, I’d talk about my mixed identity and how forcing people to choose between a white or non-white box is really inappropriate in a post-Loving world. Doing so negates my mixed existence, and the validity of interracial marriage.

       I am so over coddling people who think what they think is somehow more relevant to my identity than how I regard my own identity.

   16. I was at a leadership offsite once where we were all supposed to prepare to share a moment that had changed our lives. One of my colleagues sat next to me with his arms crossed stubbornly and kept repeating “I’m not doing this. Invasion of privacy.” Which was his right, but he looked super childish.

       Our top leader then opened it up by talking about his cancer treatment, which made my stubborn colleague look even more heartless, but the boss turned his story into a lesson about how it changed his working style.

       That’s basically what the rest of us shared. I’ve had some horrific losses in my life that, if I were to be that level of honest with colleagues, would just make everyone feel sorry for me and that was not what I wanted to go for. So I talked about my first year working for the company and how the company and my role were so much different than I had imagined, but y’know, I adapted and overcame and now I felt I was much more equipped to handle any challenge that came my way.

       In other words, corporate BS.

       That’s all you have to do. Opting out will make you stick out far more than if you just say something in the right vein that’s not too personal, and move on. Don’t skip the meeting.

       1. You know, I think you’re right. I suggested declining to share upthread, but I think it could potentially look bad for the reasons you mention. Some vague corporate BS response is probably the way to go, maybe saving the refusal for if they press.

   17. If there is any discussion of systemic racism, I’d focus your comments on that. Try to extend an idea or connect multiple ideas from the discussion in a way that hews to the party line and does not focus on yourself or your own experience.

   18. If this is a DiAngelo-style session, OP won’t just be asked to say whatever she wants to say. She’ll be asked to publicly rate herself on a scale of privilege.

       1. So others can hoist their judgements of her level of self-awareness based on their own brief and subjective observations and uninformed assumptions? How is is this productive?

       2. This is exactly what is happening

       3. Yup. Lots of sweet summer children on this thread who are underinformed about DiAngelo-style struggle sessions.

   19. Agree that you’re being overly dramatic

       1. Have you ever been to one of these? If not, and I mean no disrespect, you do not know what you were talking about.

          OP has it right. Your choices are either to identify yourself as an oppressed minority or admit to being an oppressor… Those are the choices.

          OP I am very sorry you’re going through this. However, as you seem to already know, those are your choices. Pick your poison.

5. Low stakes Q. I know what mug to use when I want my beverage to stay hot for a long time. But what mugs/cups do you use when you want your hot beverage to cool quickly? For example my coffee is too hot to drink for like 20 minutes if I don’t add ice cubes to it. This is an okay method but dilutes the coffee. I used to add milk to combat this, but I’m trying to switch to black.

   1. Make ice cubes out of coffee – problem solved :)

   2. A silicone reusable cup. Or I place my mug in front of a cold window…

   3. From a thermodynamics standpoint, a metal mug will absorb and dissipate the heat the fastest. I don’t know if you will actually notice much difference in real life.

      1. Along a similar vein, leaving a metal utensil (like a spoon) in the cup will also help dissipate some of the heat.
         Kind of like a heat sink.

   4. A regular ceramic mug with a wide mouth is probably your best reusable option.

      1. This. Get an old fashioned cup. You can buy big ones if you like, you just need expanded surface area. Something along these lines: https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/nathalie-lete-titania-mug?category=kitchen-mugs-teacups&color=004&type=STANDARD&size=Mug&quantity=1

   5. I prefer for my hot coffee to basically burn my mouth and can never find a mug that keeps it hot off, so…just an ordinary mug for you?

   6. A reusable silicone cup. Or place mug in front of a cold window (which doesn’t work in the the summer)…

   7. I use an aeropress and an electric tea kettle for my coffee. The electric tea kettle has settings in 10 degree Celsius increments, so I choose a temperature that works with the mug I plan to use that day. Obviously this won’t work if your coffee making setup does not have a way to adjust the temperature, in which case, coffee ice cubes sound like your best bet.

   8. You can fill your ceramic mug with ice water for a minute or two, then dump that and pour the coffee in. Some of the heat from the coffee will immediately go toward warming the cup.

      1. Good idea – even put it in the freezer first

         1. Could that just make it shatter or is that just glass? I tried to make iced tea this way once and OMG it was like a million knives exploded around me.

            1. Good point, please disregard this dumb suggestion on my part

            2. The ice water won’t make it shatter but I probably wouldn’t do the freezer.

   9. An Ember mug solves both keeping it hot for hours and cooling it down ASAP and IS AMAZING.

      1. Not the OP but a hater of too-hot coffee and you got me excited but … ummm … I will be waiting for the “Buy an Ember Mug, Get a Free Case of Coffee” special.

6. We asked my three year old what he wants to get grandma for mother’s day and he said: dragon earrings, of course! I think this is hilarious and want to indulge the whim. I have scoured the usual spots, but wanted to ask here if you know of any places to look for some fun dragon earrings.

   1. I am 100% certain you can find something like this on Etsy. Are you thinking scary medieval dragon or cuddly Puff the Magic Dragon? (Either way, I still say Etsy.)

   2. My first inclination would be Etsy

   3. I think I would probably check Etsy, but just wanted to say: I love the way this kid thinks!

   4. https://www.etsy.com/listing/885998513/925-sterling-silver-dainty-dragon-stud?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=dragon+earrings&ref=sr_gallery-1-9&from_market_listing_grid_organic=1&col=1

   5. Dragon ear crawlers! https://www.etsy.com/listing/161005202/gold-or-silver-dragon-ear-cuff-earring

   6. 1) Chinatown or online Chinese shop for golden dragon earrings or Chinese zodiac earrings
      2) Comic book store or similar for GOT or goth earrings
      3) Claire’s or similar jewelry store for kids for cuddly dragons (look for stud sets)
      4) New age style shops for silver dragons

      Etsy for all of the above, and maybe search for dragon charms as well, you can just add some rings or hooks yourself.

      Or you can try museums, like The British Museum: https://www.britishmuseumshoponline.org/oxus-treasure-dragon-earrings.html

      1. Ooh love the Chinatown idea. I’m not Asian and before we were worried about cultural appropriation I wore a dragon pendant from Chinatown. I just loved it (and I’m year of the dragon).

   7. Here are some clip-on ones, in case he’d like to try them as well! :)

      https://www.ebay.com/itm/MFA-Museum-of-Fine-Arts-Boston-Menuki-dragon-earrings-22k-gold-plated-/184419282695

   8. https://www.etsy.com/listing/788518798/dragon-charm-hoops?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=dragon+earrings&ref=sr_gallery-1-6&organic_search_click=1&pro=1&frs=1&col=1

   9. This is amazing and your three year old’s plan made me smile so much!

7. TMI question – toenail loss.

   My pinky toenail had been feeling sore on and off for the last few weeks, and yesterday, it just … fell off. I have no idea why. I haven’t injured it lately, and there are no signs of trauma. Google indicates that nails that fall off without injury are because of fungus, but I don’t see signs of that either (and I’ve had toenail fungus 20-some years ago, so a) I know what it looks like; and b) I’m uber careful with my feet to avoid getting it again). It doesn’t hurt, but it’s mystifying – feels more like a detective story than a medical emergency.

   Aside from keeping an eye on it (and seeking medical attention if it seems infected), keeping it clean until the nail grows back, and probably avoiding salon pedicures for a while, anything else I need to know?

   1. Walking/running long distances in shoes that are too small are the best way I know of to lose toenails. They don’t even need to feel uncomfortably tight to be too small. Have you been spending too much time in too-tight shoes?

   2. Did you wear tight shoes or run recently? I have had this happen in those circumstances and it always grows back quickly with no issues. Just keep it clean.

      1. That’s the weird thing – the soreness felt like tight shoes, but I’m barefoot most of the time (WFH). When I do wear shoes, it’s almost always an old pair of sneakers that have never given me problems before. No running or intense exercise, just walks around the neighborhood.

         1. Feet can change or swell over time, and your shoes don’t have to feel tight to rub enough to drop a nail. I’d swap out the shoes, maybe go with thinner socks and see if that solves it.

   3. I had this happen, but it was due to backpacking and too much downhill (should have tightened my laces more often). It grew back, but slowly. It felt delicate for a while. I did avoid pedicures (and now still do) but I occasionally soaked the foot in water with Bactine. That seemed to help.

      I know nothing about the fungus, but I can say the nail took 6 months or so to grow back.

   4. You probably did injure it in some way, like stubbing it, that wasn’t significant enough for you to recall. Just see if it keeps happening once it grows back.

8. I am getting Express ads for a really lovely double-layer cropped cami shown worn with a suit. It looks so good. But this is on a model, in an ad. Pls remind me that this would look terrible on a regular person with bad posture and no chance for air-brushing / photoshopping.

   [Curious: do the Kardashians IRL looks like pictures of themselves, even remotely?]

   1. I am old so this is not for me but I actually like the look on the right person. I don’t think that is exclusively for the model-thin, but smooth-bellied helps. Obviously this look is not for office work.

   2. I boggle about how the Kardashians have had so much work done and layer on so much makeup and STILL feel the need to photoshop all their photos to the point where it has been called out by fans. It’s so extreme that it’s actually a relief to think their images are basically impossible to achieve in real life! No need for me to worry about trying…

   3. based on the (few) unedited shots that have been seen over the last year or two (Khloe and Kylie), no they do not.

9. AIMS- if you’re still reading, I caught up on the morning thread and am here to talk you out of the JCrew striped maxi. If it’s anything like last year’s version, the armholes gape out at the front like origami napkins, and the fabric is too heavy for what should be a flowy summer dress. It does looks great online, though :)

10. I posted a week or so ago about this lotion – I could not handle the smell. It’s so much stronger than I remember, although I hadn’t purchased it in probably 3 years. I literally had to take a second shower to get it off of me. I won’t be buying this again, unfortunately.

    1. Can anyone recommend a resource for understanding Borderline Personality Disorder and/or how it affects others? My BF recently armchair diagnosed my BFF with this and then confirmed that he recognizes it because he has it. This makes sense to me as I recognize these two are very very similar people in both intriguing and disordered ways. And I was aware that I was maybe inappropriately drawn to this personality but now I guess I have a name for it. I am also thinking it might apply to my mother, bringing it full circle. But I am honestly having trouble understanding BPD based only on my internet reading so looking to take a deeper dive.

       1. Sorry. Nesting fail!

    2. I tried this very lotion back in high school and it seemed to absorb through my skin straight into my taste buds. It made me feel so ill, even though I showered and scrubbed myself raw trying to wash it all off. Same thing happens with static guard and dry shampoo, even leave-in conditioner. They all make it taste like I have been drinking propane or gasoline and I cannot fathom how anyone can stand it.

11. What inexpensive chain stores have kids’ clothes for a formal occasion? Looking to spend $50 maximum on a boy’s pants, shirt, and maybe bowtie and suspenders (per request!)

    1. I might try a TJMaxx or Burlington Coat Factory for something like this?

    2. Old Navy

    3. Kohl’s has suits/suit separates for kids. They’re artificially expensive and BOGO right now, but by Friday/Saturday they should be some percentage off + whatever other promotions they’re running.

    4. Try Macy’s, especially if you have a coupon or a promo.

    5. Belk often has those sort of things at really good discounts.

    6. If you have a neighborhood facebook group I would post there looking for hand-me-downs. This is the kind of thing that is worn once and so will be in great condition.

    7. I like Nordstrom Rack for this type of thing

    8. Dillard’s.

    9. Target isn’t usually terrible for this – they have a lot of uniform-adjacent boys’ stuff so you could probably find all of this for under $50.

    10. JC Penny and sometimes Target.

    11. H&M

12. I’ve re-read this article multiple times, and feel a sense of jealousy: I am too risk-averse to quit my job without something lined up, but I’m also exhausted and need a long, deep break from a decade plus of working intense jobs.

    Link: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/technology/welcome-to-the-yolo-economy.html

    1. I am very risk-averse under normal circumstances too. It is a good quality, because it drove me to work well-paying jobs, pay off debt, and save, save, and save. After all this, I am going to enjoy those savings and give myself a sabbatical of indefinite length.

    2. I feel that article in my bones. Also too risk adverse to just quit, but I can’t say I haven’t daydreamed about getting laid off.

    3. So timely; thanks for sharing. I’m considering making an entire career change in the next few months, possibly even starting my own company, in large part thanks to the perspective shift that the last year has brought. You really only do get one life, and I can’t do this anymore.

       1. Not sarcastically: congratulations!!

13. Can anyone recommend a resource for understanding Borderline Personality Disorder and/or how it affects others? My BF recently armchair diagnosed my BFF with this and then confirmed that he recognizes it because he has it. This makes sense to me as I recognize these two are very very similar people in both intriguing and disordered ways. And I was aware that I was maybe inappropriately drawn to this personality but now I guess I have a name for it. I am also thinking it might apply to my mother, bringing it full circle. But I am honestly having trouble understanding BPD based only on my internet reading so looking to take a deeper dive.

    1. I would be very cautious to accept your BF’s armchair diagnoses of other people. Mental issues often present very differently in men and women, but medical studies are almost exclusively on men. This means that women with autism are commonly misdiagnosed as BPD and then stigmatized for the rest of their lives.

       1. I agree. That is in large part why I want more information – I don’t just want to digest his opinion. I will say I really don’t think either of them has ASD. I can see the overlap there and those are not the primary characteristics that I think would make either fall into the BPD diagnosis. In fact, the lack of those markers would make me think they may fall into neither.

    2. I think Stop Walking on Eggshells is the typical recommendation for friends/family. I also found it helpful to look up Marsha Linehan’s books (before Linehan, BPD was mostly considered a lost cause, and therapy tended to harm rather than help, so she’s a central figure in its history).

       Keep in mind that CTPSD and “level 1” ASD are both frequently misdiagnosed as BPD, so it may help to read about those as well.

    3. I liked reading “The Buddha and the Borderline.” The author has BPD and writes about her experiences. I learned a lot from that.

       The Psychology in Seattle podcast by Dr. Kirk Honda is also great for learning more—some episodes focus specifically on BPD. Others focus more generally on navigating relationships with difficult people and setting boundaries (not saying your BF or BFF are difficult, but if they have borderline tendencies I’m guessing that comes up when you are with them).

       But I agree with the other posters not to accept an armchair diagnosis. BPD can only be diagnosed by clinical professionals, and even they can only diagnose their own clients after extensive screening. Friends/family are not qualified to diagnose and a misdiagnosis can be harmful.

       1. Thanks! I will check out all the recommended materials.
          They ARE difficult. Very, very difficult. Like maybe not worth it difficult (esp. BF). But they are also wonderful. BF has been diagnosed by a professional. BFF has not (with this), but they are just so very similar (we all see it) that it seems like BF might be on to something.

14. What is the shorts equivalent of leggings? I want some shorts that are decent enough to run errands in (so not PJ shorts). But I hate how athletic shorts have that sewn in underwear, which I find uncomfortable.

    1. My daughter has some bike-style shorts that look like top of the knee length leggings, and are really cute. She’s 23 fwiw.

    2. Linen shorts with a drawstring waist. Feel like PJs, look like clothes.

    3. Vuori Halo performance shorts. The shorts version of the Vuori jogger, no liner.

       1. Wow, these have no underwear lining?! I’m so into these!

    4. I’m not sure it’s exactly what you’re looking for but maybe a dress in athletic material like from athleta or prana?

       1. I was eyeing some Prana shorts that might fit the bill.

    5. Bike shorts. The young ‘uns are doing the princess Diana look – oversized sweatshirt with bike shorts and big reebok type sneakers. Something where it’s loose over lean looks best unless you’re actually working out.

       I’ve also seen tik tokkers modeling elastic waist twill shorts lately. Short inseam, basic shorts, not skin tight, not workout material.

       1. I like the idea of bike shorts but I don’t know what top to wear with them in hot weather

       2. I wish the (young) women around here were wearing loose and long tops over their bike shorts. It seems the fashion here is to wear a tight top tucked into bike shorts.

    6. FWIW you can always just cut out the underwear.

    7. I lived, LIVED in the Columbia Sandy River shorts last summer and plan to again this summer. I have them in every color. Stupid comfortable, look put together if you put a casual top with them, comfy enough to sleep in in a pinch.

       https://www.columbia.com/p/womens-sandy-river-shorts-AL4573.html

       1. Do they have an underwear style lining?

          1. Nope

       2. FWIW these sorts are really popular with my 60 year old mom and her outdoors club comprised of other elder ladies. Even if they’re great shorts I can never mentally get past it.

       3. How’s the sizing on these? I’ve had issues with shorts like this dropping too far in the crotch (idk what that fit issue is even called) when the waistband is sitting where it should.

    8. Are you looking for bike shorts (which would be the literal shorts equivalent of leggings) or just comfy shorts that you can also wear to the park, grocery store, etc.? If the latter, I purchased multiple pairs of the Madewell Pull-On shorts (https://www.madewell.com/pull-on-shorts-H5956.html) last summer. I think J. Crew’s Seaside linen shorts (https://www.jcrew.com/p/womens_category/shorts/3inch/seaside-short-in-linen-blend/J2325) are also a popular choice, but I can’t vouch for them personally.

    9. Personally, athleta cabo linen shorts and athleta brooklyn shorts were what I bought last year for “casual pull-on shorts”, which to me is equivalent. I also wear some skorts (from amazon, nothing specific that I’d recommend).

    10. I think you are making assumptions about shorts. None of the athletic shorts I have purchased in the last 5 years have sewn-in underwear. I know that those exist, but it is far from universal. You’ve gotten some good recs here, but even the three styles I got from Reebok when they had a fire sale last spring are all liner-free.

        1. I have athletic shorts from Nike, Under Armour, and Lululemon and they all have the underwear lining.

        2. I just purchased a bunch of ZYIA shorts (you know, those parties – well, this one was virtual) and they all had the underwear lining. I’d actually never seen that in women’s shorts before, just my husband’s shorts.

    11. You could go for bike shorts, which are essentially leggings in shorts length. I am not up for the look since I rocked it in the early 90s, but they have certainly proliferated to a number brands (from Everlane on the cheaper end to fancy Carbon 38 athleisure). I typically avoid statements that certain looks are only appropriate for certain age ranges, but this look does really skew young for me, probably because I remember it from 30 years ago. YMMV.

    12. Old navy has a bunch of casual shorts- check out their linen ones

    13. I gravitate towards these – they are a knockoff of a lululemon pair. I grab these over bike shorts and running shorts.

        https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DKCSDVV/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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