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Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
Are you friends with your female colleagues? I am an associate at a biglaw firm (I lateralled here a year ago) and have not connected with any of the women lawyers on my floor. I thought it was because I was new, but recently a young female partner joined our group, and it seems like she is already best friends with the only other female associate besides myself. They go on coffee dates and walk by my office without inviting me, I can hear them gossiping through the wall every day, etc., and neither of them have made an effort to befriend me. I am quite close with the male partners (I grew up with brothers, so it is easier for me to talk to men than to women), but have actually made an effort with these women to no avail. It shouldn’t bother me because it’s just work, but I do feel left out and it sucks at client events/group events when they are buddy-buddy but leaving me out by doing things like excluding me from email chains about plans while discussing them right in front of me. Has anyone experienced something similar?
Anonymous
Why are you taking an isolated incident involving TWO women and generalizing about how you get along better with men/don’t get along with female lawyers? Seriously, just because they’re also women doesn’t mean they’re not assholes or just don’t like you or have something in common you don’t have or a million other reasons.
Anon
+1, plus anytime anybody says they get along better with one gender over the other I get suspicious. Why don’t you just get along with people in general?
Anonymous
OP here – not what I meant or said. What I said was that it is easier for me to talk to men than to women. Meaning, in general, talking to men comes more naturally to me because I have three brothers so most of my life including my formative years has been spent talking to boys/men, and female friendship has always been something that comes less naturally to me as result. Not a generalization, just a description of my lived experience.
anon
But surely you’ve been around women and had the opportunity to make friends and lean how to speak with them before? I’m not trying to be snarky and I do get where you’re coming from (but please believe, I grew up with a sister and that did f* all for teaching me how to interact with women), but I would think by the time you’ve gotten to be an associate in biglaw you’ve had the opportunity to develop friendships with women. Do you have other friendships with women outside work, even if it comes less naturally?
Ellen
I understand, as I have the same issues with women, particularly professional women who are jealous of me b/c I am found by men to be very easy to get a long with, when other women are not. I do not particularly enjoy the company of men, but feel that I must do so to advance in the profession, and the manageing partner knows this and treats me well. As a result, Madeline, another attorney at law at our firm, resents me b/c of my ease in dealing with men while she is very uptight and cannot relate to the banter I give and take with men. She also tells the partners that I flirt with the opposing council, which is NOT the case. I just am freindly at depos so that I can get the information out of them I need to win the case. I swear to the HIVE that I have never compromised my morals with opposing council, or the judge, who says he treats and considers me the same as he would his own neice. I think that is a complement, tho the other women at the firm resent me for this. So OP, I have in fact walked a mile in YOUR moccasin’s and know it is not easy. Just hang in there and you will be fine. Do NOT let women bully you just b/c you are cute and easy to get a long with while they are not as cute and more rigid around men. Remember we NEED men so we must be nice always to them. Catty women are another story. FOOEY !
Anon
OP, that just doesn’t make sense to me. I only have brothers too, but I also had many female friends growing up in my classes, my neighborhoods, sports, girl scouts, etc. Unless you went to a school of all boys, the friends you were making at school could have been girls. Just having only brothers doesn’t preclude someone from acting normal around women and building female friendships.
Anon
This. I have only sisters and relate better to men (if I had to choose, I guess).
nona
+1 – I also grew up with brothers and get along with both men and women fine. I will say that the closest friend i have in my group is a guy, but that has more to do with the fact that we were staffed on the same project for a couple years and we’re both a couple of singletons in a group full of married women (my department is mostly female). I also don’t expect everyone at work to be my friend – I’ve got a close group of female friends outside of work.
Anonymous
Not everyone is awesome? Some people are civil, others frosty, others vile. I just try to meet as many people as I can so I don’t miss the nice ones. There are nice ones. My law friends run 50-50 men/women. I like the guys as colleagues but I love the women who are relatable to my current life and struggles (not junior, have kids, life is crazy).
Anonymous
Hmm — yeah I’ve always been friends with my female colleagues, though I’ve also been lucky that I didn’t have female colleagues LIKE THAT. Don’t get me wrong in biglaw (and even in gov’t) there were definitely cliques and you heard after the fact that certain associates were hanging out a ton outside of work, their husbands/boyfriends/now kids hang out etc. and obviously not everyone was a part of that. BUT maybe I was just lucky in that it was a friendly firm so even if these 5 associates were BFFs outside of work and would be taking a trip together this weekend, they never made others feel excluded or unwelcome at work events — like at the networking event, they didn’t even necessarily all hang out with each other and even if they were, and you joined you could tell they were NOT at all displeased about that. Now could I have joined their weekend BBQs, probably not; could I have joined their Monday afternoon coffee run, sure — though I wouldn’t do it all the time either because I figured they wanted some time with just their friends. And in reality these cliques weren’t huge so while there were 2-3 cliques of 5 people each, there were tons of other people to befriend.
How are you in biglaw with only 2 female associates? Is this a branch office? Aren’t there others to hang out with besides this one partner and associate — even if the others are male associates? As a newcomer at a firm, you should be getting to know people whether male or female, if the females aren’t interested — fine — get coffee with some of the guys. Any chance these 2 already knew each other before the partner came on board – like from a previous job? Do they work together and do you work with them?
Anonymous
Thanks for the tips! To clarify, there are only 2 female associates in my group (including myself), and 2 female partners – the rest of my group is men. There are lots of female associates in other groups! The issue is because I don’t generally work with the women outside of my group and I sit in between the two women I spoke about, so it’s in my face constantly as they are the only women I work directly with and see on a daily basis.
Anonymous
Yeah that seating arrangement is rough. Be totally polite. ASK one or both of them to get coffee. It can be VERY casual as in sticking your head in the door and saying — hey I need caffeine and was just going to run out to Starbucks, in case you’re interested. And then don’t be offended if they say no, you’ve made the offer — maybe they’re busy right then or have had coffee already, but by offering it up you’re letting them know — hey I’d like to go. They either include you or not. On Monday spend 2 min asking about the weekend. Even if they don’t include you, in such a small group, you need a cordial working relationship.
And then look to befriend others even outside your department. In small departments you kind of have to do that. Chat with people in nearby offices. If you have an attorney lounge, chat with people there etc. Eventually you’ll get to know these people. It’s tough for laterals. At my firm (which had a big homegrown culture) laterals didn’t really start fitting in and being seen as “one of us” for like 2 years — but then once they were friends, they were friends like everyone else; obviously it was easier with the laterals who WANTED to make friends. Those who never talked or never left their offices never made friends because we didn’t want to bother someone who we thought wasn’t interested.
Anon
I have never been real friends with coworkers because I feel the need to maintain a certain level of distance and professionalism with colleagues. That said “work friend” is a particular type of friend and useful to make the day go by faster and to have someone to exchange information with.
What have you done to befriend them? IME lots of people start a new job and figure people will embrace them and welcome them in with open arms and that is just not the case. You have to ask people to coffee or lunch, chit chat with them in the morning while grabbing coffee, stop by their office even for just three minutes to catch up “how was your weekend” etc. These things develop over time usually. Your case, the new partner and associate may have known each other prior or just click in an unusual way. That does not preclude you from developing a work friendship.
Anon
There are always cliques at work. People are allowed to make friends at work. But I was unintentionally in the middle of a clique at my last job and it actually made my work so much harder – work disagreements affected friendships, friend disagreements affected work – so I vowed never to fall into that again. I’ve been working at my new job for three years and have avoided becoming too close / outside of work friends with any of my colleagues. I’m friendly at work and that’s it. I eat lunch alone intentionally and it’s fine.
Anon
Don’t take it personally. They may have bonded over some shared common interest that you don’t know about (maybe they had a friend in common or share a love for ice skating). It doesn’t mean they are actively trying to exclude you. Continue to be warm and friendly when you meet each of them. Show an interest in what they do. If appropriate, schedule a 1:1 with the new partner to learn more about her past experience and the role she will play in the firm. Make small talk with the other associate when you see her in the break room. Assume best intentions and be friendly, and you will make friends.
Anonymous
YMMV but for me in biglaw my closest friends (and I have many from that stage though we’ve all moved to other jobs/careers) came from situations where I worked a lot with people. IDK there was something about them talking to me day in and day out, working hard for/with them, knowing I’m reliable, traveling with them, and them seeing me day to day where I may make a sarcastic comment/share a story etc. — that bonded us in a way that small talk in the office never could. So many people bond just by people able to chat, gossip etc. — but for me the true friendships come after I’ve worked with someone (and it’s been a good experience for both of us).
Anonymous
In my experience people who claim they’re just baffled about why they get along better with men are always the problem. Have you actually tried, over the last year, to be friendly?
cbackson
At my first law firm my closest friends were all fellow associates – we socialized together heavily outside of work, traveled together, etc. At my current firm, when I was an associate, I was friendly but not close with fellow associates – and that was fine. As I’ve gotten older, work has felt less important to me as a source of social relationships.
Anonymous
I have never been able to maintain a friendship outside the office. Maybe there is just something wrong with me. I have other friends.You are not alone.
...
no one wants to be real friends outside of the office.
Anonymous
Yes, but only by accident.
At my last firm, I made really close friends because I had a hand in hiring them. There was a mass exodus, and then the boss involved me choosing all the new temps and laterals. Then, when they came, I gave them all orientations, answered their questions about the firm quirks, etc. I still keep in touch with them and see them from time to time.
Here, it was a total accident, and I only have 2 female friends. I ran into the two of them telling each other a joke on their first week, and kind of started inserting myself into their conversations.
Vanities?
I have an older house. I have to retile a bathroom and rip out the failing built-in vanity. That is fine. But putting in a sleek new vanity just looks off compared to the tile / age of the house. Is there a place on the interwebs where you can get vanities (or sink / vanity combos that are prefab) that would go with a 1920s house?
Contractor tells me that I will want something nicer than Home Depot basic varieties, but I also don’t want a 4K sleek modern Kohler thingie.
And I love a sink with metal legs, but we have so much grooming clutter than I’d like to hide that away.
Anon
My house is a similar age. I have a pedestal sink and a stand alone tall cabinet. Is there room to do that in your bathroom?
You can also buy an antique or antique looking period appropriate cabinet and have your contractor turn it into a vanity.
Anon
Here’s an example of an older looking cabinet used as a vanity, though this style may not be appropriate to your house (mine would be craftsman or mission or arts and crafts style)
https://www.wayfair.com/home-improvement/pdx/astoria-grand-haslett-48-single-bathroom-vanity-astg8829.html
Anon
This one is probably a better style for the 1920s
https://www.birchlane.com/bathroom/pdx/birch-lane-heritage-helena-48-single-bathroom-vanity-set-bl23069.html
Suburban
I think both of these look really lovely. FWIW the previous owner of my home turned a gorgeous marble topped antique dresser and mirror into a vanity with sink in our 1910 Victorian. Ten years later it is literally falling apart. The moisture of the bathroom and daily wear and tear are too much for it.
Anon
You’re making me feel happy about my pedestal sink. In my case it is original to the bathroom. That’s why I got the tall cabinet for storage.
Suburban
I’m sure it’s beautiful!
Senior Attorney
They have a lot of nice options at http://www.kitchenbathcollection.com. I got mine there for my last (1930s) house and it was nice and not horribly expensive.
Anon
check out https://deabath.com/ for period appropriate fixtures.
Anonymous
Rejuvenation is full of lovely fixtures, although not cheap
Senior Attorney
+1
Formerly Lilly
Check out Restoration Hardware’s “Gramercy”, “Thaddeus”, and “Hudson” washstands.
In my feelings
I was a bit disappointed with the whole “bachelorette party” discussion from this morning’s post. Not the main topic of it which, you feel how you feel about it, but the reasoning that some people expressed their viewpoint: that a woman cannot be celebrated by the people she loves more than once. There were a lot of loaded words like “entitlement” and “selfish” relating to pre-wedding events (of note which are thrown by other people not the bride) for what is for many one of their greatest life milestones.
It just made me a bit sad because it felt a little bit like…trying to squash a woman’s shine, make her smaller, in particular for a limited time period and not due to her behavior (I completely understand being turned off of bridezilla territory) but because she just…has something to be really really happy about. I don’t know it felt a bit crabs in a barrel, know your place, women can’t be too happy sort of feeling and I was disappointed to see that on this site. I’ve seen similar reactions to adults celebrating birthdays, promotions, or the birth of a child. I just don’t know why women can’t be happy for another woman without feeling indignant.
Anon
Literally nobody said a woman can’t be celebrated more than once. But many brides expect their bridal party to attend their pre-wedding events, and the costs for a bach party can be very disproportionate with the costs of attending other wedding events. The cost of attending a local shower is a $50 gift. Even if you have to fly in, you can probably stay with the bride or her friend’s or family, so you’re talking about one plane ticket and a $50 gift. The costs of flying to a destination bach includes your plane ticket, part of a hotel, tons of meals and drinks and activities and a significant share of all the bride’s costs. What’s selfish is not wanting to celebrate, but expecting your friends to cough up thousands of dollars to celebrate.
Anon
That’s not true, there was one particularly nasty person saying you couldn’t possibly ask for more than your wedding day.
I agree, OP, it was a weird, sad conversation. I really don’t buy the argument that this isn’t a normal invitation you can simply decline if you want to. Invitations — to anything — are not summonses. Inviting people to a celebration does not make you a bad person.
Anon
But what so many people don’t get is that you are not “inviting people to a celebration.” You’re inviting people to PAY FOR YOUR CELEBRATION. That’s a big part of the problem. If you want to *host* a bachelor*tte party in whatever city you’d like to visit, that would be very different. No one does.
Anon
Honestly you’ll get WAY worse reaction hosting your own bachelorette party. Even if you pay, people will then say they feel obligated to go since you put up so much money. And the comments of being selfish hosting your own prewedding event (which generally is not done) will just be so much meaner and along the lines of “who does she think she is”
Anon
I sincerely doubt that. I think people would be pleased with the generosity.
Worry about yourself
Well, it’s usually the maid of honor or a family member planning the bachelorette party, so no, it’s not always the bride choosing a pricey location and then demanding that everyone come. In fact, sometimes it’s a surprise, although usually the bride gives some preferences and ideas, and the planner should be getting a sense of what the bridal party wants to pay before choosing.
I’d like to think that most people are okay with someone sitting out the bachelorette party if the issue is not being able to justify the cost, or not getting the time off work. It’s when they sense you’re opting out because you just don’t wanna be there that you might get the side-eye, and that’s somewhat justified. It doesn’t warrant anyone cutting you out of their life, but there are often consequences to choosing not to attend a celebration, and that usually involves fewer invitations to future parties, and the host not considering you a super close friend anymore.
Aggie
My friends scattered after college and any bachelorette party would require travel for most of us across the state of Texas. I had been working for 8 months – most of my friend were still in law school or early on in their careers. I decided to rent a centrally located lake house for a week to make it easy on every one. It was very casual – come and go and we cooked all but one meal ourselves. Everyone chipped in for food and booze without even asking. It felt more like a girls trip than “my” week – which is exactly what I wanted.
Anon
I was the (a?) person who made the “one day” comment, and what I meant was that you get one day (per marriage, at least) where you can reasonably expect your family and close friends to take off work, spend a lot of money and do whatever else it takes to attend your celebration. That’s your wedding day. It’s not that you can’t enjoy celebrating with your friends beyond that day, but you can’t be upset when people can’t or don’t want to attend.
anon
Actually, except for immediate family, I think you shouldn’t be upset (or at least take it out on them/throw away the friendship) when people can’t or don’t want to attend your wedding. There are all sorts of reasons people can’t or don’t want to attend a wedding, and that’s OK because an invitation is not a summons. My husband and I have likely spent around $20K over the last 10-15 years attending bachelor/ette parties, showers, and weddings. I’ve probably been to half a dozen bachelorette parties, a dozen showers, and 20-30 weddings. I’m happy to have done that, and to have been able to celebrate with friends and family. AND I’ve missed weddings I would have liked to attend due to school, work, having a baby (2 weddings were scheduled the weekend of my due date), illness, finances, complicated logistics, etc. I hope/trust that people understood when I couldn’t attend.
I’m married and had a pretty large wedding, and I understand that not everyone can make it on a particular date, and not everyone who wants to attend. I had a close friend who didn’t attend because of a family conflict, another who didn’t attend because she was very pregnant, relatives who didn’t attend because they didn’t want to be at an event where alcohol was served, etc etc. The friend with the family conflict and the teetotaler relatives are the only people besides my parents who send me birthday cards :-) I’d hate to have trashed those relationships because they made choices that were right for them, even if I rolled my eyes at the time.
Anon
“What’s selfish is not wanting to celebrate, but expecting your friends to cough up thousands of dollars to celebrate“
+1
I will also tell you that your friends probably just aren’t as excited about your engagement/wedding as you are.
I would also like to see more celebrations around achievements other than getting married, you know?
Anon
Seriously. And before you call me a bitter old harpie, yes, I am married and have friends that were excited to celebrate me. But it is sad to me that marriage (and to a lesser degree, babies) are the only things we celebrate like this!
Anonymous
Right. As if you would travel to attend a celebration because a woman got promoted or paid off her student debt or bought a house or became a judge/surgeon/whatever. Give me a break. For 99% of women, marriage and babies are the ONLY things they will celebrate and everything else gets you a passing — congrats, shrug, because it just isn’t NEARLY as important as wedding/babies. Ask me or your single friends how we know.
Anon
That is my point!!
Anonymous
I’d show up for a destination PHD party every time but I hate destination BPs
married w/o phd fwiw
Anon
Agreed.
I don’t need free trip to Bermuda to know how happy my friends are for me.
Is it Friday yet?
Yup. I am happy to attend local showers and parties, and am not even salty about destination weddings (as long as it’s made clear that they are an optional, no hard feelings situation if you can’t make it for any or no reason). There is, however, a time and price limit on how much I am willing to spend on anyone that isn’t me. And at risk of being labeled a bitter, selfish old hag by someone defensively projecting, it kinda sucks to spend lots of money and all your vacation days celebrating other people when it is unclear that you’ll ever get your day in return.
Anonymous
Or you did it for them, then they skipped your events b/c they had a new baby, and now that it’s time for wedding #2, you need to s*ck it up and travel AGAIN.
I’m not by nature a scorekeeper, but there are some felonies here that warrant it (a person I know shunned and complained about a never-married schoolteacher cousin who couldn’t afford to go to Hawaii for acquaintance’s destination wedding, which was wedding #2, after having gone to wedding #1, wedding #1 shower, etc.).
Skipper
I think it’s extremely regressive that we continue to treat marriage and childrearing as the only female rites of passage worth celebrating. I’m married. But I’ve also done a ton of cool, difficult shirt in my life that’s gone pretty unremarked on, and, honestly, I think that’s gross.
Inspired By Hermione
One of the kindest things my best friend ever did for me was to take charge of celebrating when I was officially cured of a scary infection after 2 and a half years. It was a huge moment for me and she got me flowers and took me to coffee and a card and generally just celebrated it for the accomplishment it was. It meant the world to me.
Anon
To be fair, I think my husband’s bachelor party is the only time he and his friends will get together to celebrate him in that way (I think either of us reaching another career milestone, i.e. me making equity partner or him reaching the physician equivalent, would probably merit a fancy dinner out or an at-home party). This isn’t to say that women face the brunt of family/marriage expectations, just that bachelorette parties aren’t the way to prove it.
anon
+1. I’m the anon above who’s spent $20K (with my husband) attending dozens of weddings and pre-wedding events. I’m happy to do that! But I also would like to celebrate (more than just sending a card or gift) a friend making partner or getting tenure or finishing residency/fellowship. I’m also happy to attend milestone birthday parties and retirement parties.
Anonymous
Yeah I didn’t get it. I LOVE to travel to my friends’ event, whether it’s an “official” event like a wedding or an unofficial event like a bachelorette. Who cares? If it gets me out of DC (or out of NYC when I lived there) and I get to stay at a hotel and reconnect with people I don’t see every day — I’m all for it, whether it’s the 1st time or 3rd time I’m celebrating you. There’s a lot of stick in the mud behavior. And I’m not buying that it’s all financial because the rest of the time this board claims to all own homes, put 19k in a 401k, and all be in biglaw or the like — yet when they have to spend $$ on a flight and hotel for a friend OMG it’s SUCH a big deal??
Anon
Um, it’s exactly *because* we put $19k in retirement that we don’t have unlimited funds for parties. I like to travel and I do spend quite a bit of money on it, but it’s pretty easy to get invited to 5 or more destination bachelor*ttes per year in your late 20s and early 30s- that’s over $10k/year on bachelor*ttes alone, to say nothing of the travel costs associated with attending all the actual weddings. And some people want to actually, you know, take a vacation with their SO to a destination of their choosing.
Anon
But you don’t have to go to every one you are invited too. Go to the ones for your close friends, or the ones in cities you want to visit, or none of them, whatever you want.
Also, multiple people have said they get invited to 3-5+ a year and I don’t get it. I get invited to a few weddings a year, but I’ve never been invited to more than one bachelorette party a year. To have 5 or more a year, you would have to have more than 30 close friends. Do I just not less friends than the average reader here?
Anon
* Do I just have less friends – what I would give for an edit button
Anon
I have been invited to ~20 and I don’t think I have a ton of close friends. I have only been a bridesmaid 3 times. At least in my circles, all female wedding guests under a certain age are typically invited, it’s not just a bestie thing.
Anon
Interesting. I’ve only been invited to ones that involve 6 or less friends, and it does really seem to be a besties thing in my circle. I haven’t even heard of people attending ones that involve more than 8 people total, and most are more like 4-5 people total.
I can understand feeling differently about it if I was one of 20 or 30 people invited to the weekend, and it wasn’t a real chance to hang out with my friend.
anon
I’ve only ever been invited to two bachelor**e parties, so you aren’t the only one.
Anon
See? Everyone was like, EASY! It you can’t afford it just say no!
But it clearly invites judgment on what you can and can’t afford, and what your spending priorities are, as this poster demonstrates.
Worry about yourself
I love the excuse to travel, too! My boyfriend and I make decent money, but not so much that we can justify traveling just for the sake of going somewhere and “doing” that city for funsies, we usually need an excuse to justify the cost of a trip, and a wedding, or wedding-related celebration, is a great reason to travel!
Anon
Do you really not see the irony in responding positively to a person who said “There’s a lot of stick in the mud behavior. And I’m not buying that it’s all financial because the rest of the time this board claims to all own homes, put 19k in a 401k, and all be in biglaw or the like — yet when they have to spend $$ on a flight and hotel for a friend OMG it’s SUCH a big deal??” when you’re one of the people repeatedly insisting that anyone who doesn’t want to or can’t afford to attend all these events can “just say no”? Clearly we can’t just say no, at least not without being shamed by a lot of other people.
It’s great that you love an excuse to travel and have disposable income you want to spend on this. I mean that sincerely. But many people don’t have the money or don’t want to travel, or want to travel to places of their own choosing, or whatever and there are a lot of people out there like the poster you’re replying to who thinks that anyone who doesn’t enthusiastically drop thousands on every bach party invitation they receive is a terrible person.
Anonymous
It’s not about being happy for another woman, it’s about that woman demanding an overly burdensome expenditure of time and resources. I have limited vacation time and limited money. If I have to spend all that time “being happy for another woman” at her destination bachelor3tt3 party and bridal shower and wedding, I never get to spend my time and money doing what *I* really want to do. There was a period of about four years when our entire vacation budget was consumed by family weddings, and it was terribly frustrating to have to spend a ton of money to go to awful places and stay in awful hotels.
Anon
OMG nobody is demanding anything! Jesus, either you all are friends with some abnormally selfish people or you’re all way too sensitive about invitations.
Anon
There are a few issues that always come up though:
– The bride usually makes an effort to schedule the party at a time when most people are available.
– The bride often (not always) makes an effort to reduce costs, furthering the pressure on you to attend because the effort she’s making.
– The bride “only gets married once,” putting extra pressure on guests to suck it up and attend (different from a birthday party).
– Your friend WILL be disappointed or even upset if you don’t go. It’s hard to see people we care about being disappointed during “the most exciting time of your life.”
– If you’re in the bridal party, you’re probably very good friends and the bride has probably been there for you throughout your life. The expectation of reciprocity is one of the oldest evolved human behaviors and it’s hard to ignore.
– The costs aren’t always evident until after the fact. Sometimes plane tickets have skyrocketed in price between the time you agreed to go and the time you have to buy them, sometimes there’s an excursion you didn’t know was happening that costs $75 a head, etc.
It’s really, really hard to balance your obligations to your friends and your desire to celebrate the wedding with the fact that most of us are dealing with limited funds and time off. If that doesn’t apply to you, then don’t feel like you have to contribute to this discussion.
Anon
This this this all of this.
Anon
I’m all over this thread today but I forgot to add that it’s really hard to decline those extra excursions once you’re already there. Who wants to be the loser who stays at the Airbnb while everyone else is paying a lot to go sailing? It just makes you feel bad personally and highlights income differences between you and the other guests.
anon
I don’t disagree with most of this, but I think I must be unique from others in that I accept that my friends may be disappointed if I can’t/won’t cough up cash to do something expensive like travel for one of these events. I try and make it up to them in other ways and hope that they can understand it. So far no one appears to have hurt feelings, at least not to the point where my friendships have been adversely affected. It seems like many others haven’t had the same experience, though.
Anonymous
Calm down. Seriously.
Anonymous
And that was meant for Anon at 3:07.
Abby
Do you think your opinion towards them is more negative because it was family weddings (more obligatory) vs friend weddings where it might be a reunion of some sorts? I haven’t had more than 3 weddings a year somehow, and also have only gone on 2 bachelorette parties so I get excited at the thought of another one coming up, but that means I’ve been able to vacation how I want, so I don’t view it as a chore.
Worry about yourself
I’m in a similar boat, I only get invited to a few weddings a year, and I haven’t had to travel for a lot of weddings or bach parties, so I’m usually happy to show up when invited! But as I’ve seen here, celebration fatigue is a real thing. I don’t think it’s derived from a personality trait, I don’t think people are necessarily bitter, I think people just feel worn out after a while, when it’s 5+ weddings a year, and they’re in a lot of bridal parties and invited to a bunch of showers, engagement parties, bach parties, rehearsal dinners, it probably does get tiresome.
Skipper
My opinion is similar to Anon @ 254 and similarly negative. It has nothing to do with whether it’s family or friends or a combination that are consuming your vacation time and money. A real vacation involves resting, relaxing, and having fun in the ways you most enjoy. A wedding, no matter how much you love the parties involved or how “fun for a wedding” the wedding is, simply isn’t going to provide that same experience. Daydrinking in Nashville with your college best friend, her sister, and her high school best friend is also fun! But I have never ever said to myself “you know what would be really a great way to decompress from my high stress life? Shouting woo! in the company of friendly acquaintances while wearing matching outfits and matching blowouts.”
cbackson
OMG your last sentence I am dying.
Vicky Austin
Woo!
Anonymous
I have never thought about how many times a woman is celebrated — not even aware that this is a thing. In my opinion, multiple events for engagements, weddings, birthday experiences are just examples of people being manipulated by advertiser and marketers to spend. The campaign to spend your money on “experiences” instead of things is brilliant. Experiences are intangible, and you can go to numerous parties to celebrate life events (and travel)l while how many cars are you actually going to buy?
It appears to be very successful, based on the posts of when to go, not to go, how guilty do you feel, and now it’s some sexist plot. For me, the topic is end to end silly.
Wow
Bet you’re fun at parties. Or shall I say intangible, silly experiences?
Anonymous
I totally agree with everything Anonymous at 3:22 said. You sound like someone who has been brainwashed by marketing. Have fun with that when you’re 60 and broke.
In my feelings
Reading the responses here, I think it may come down to projecting expectations of the woman onto yourself – not in a bad or weird way, but really assuming what is expected of you and being a bit sour about that without actually verifying that expectation with a conversation. Maybe the issue here is that we aren’t as open with our women friends/family as we should be to understand how they really feel. I feel like honestly in the same sense that a woman cares way more about her wedding than anyone else, she also cares way less about you as a participant in wedding events than you think – especially if there is real communication. There may be a real emotion of temporary disappointment, which can’t be helped sometimes if someone really loves you and wants you to share in a great day, but a good friend will be fine if you communicate that you can’t come to things openly and early. She’ll get over it. To me, it does much more damage to a relationship to operate out of obligation then seethe in anger at “expectations” that may not actually be there (or that can be changed when you talk to the woman).
emeralds
I think this is a very mature way to frame this whole conversation.
Anon
+1000000
nona
Why do women need ALL the external validation that comes from being “celebrated”, to the extent that they need 3 or 4 parties for what is essentially one event (getting married)? I am happy to celebrate my friends’ and their achievements, but why should I be expected to celebrate 3 or 4 times for one event? I’ll come to your birthday outing! I’ll buy you a drink for a promotion! I’ll come to your housewarming party!
But why am I laying out money (because all have gift expectations) and time to celebrate 4 times over (engagement party, wedding shower, bach party, and wedding) what is essentially one life event?
And greatest life milestone? Puhleeze. It’s YOUR greatest milestone – you are the only one that care that much about your relationship. Why does it need so much external validation for something that is essentially achievable by luck?
Worry about yourself
I don’t think people are looking to “BE celebrated,” or that they’re looking for validation, so much as they’re looking to celebrate by doing fun stuff with friends who are happy for them. Engagements are supposed to be happy times, full of excitement and anticipation, and stressful wedding planning, so I just can’t blame people for allowing their loved ones to plan some parties for them during the process.
anon
I completely agree with all of this (I say this as a married person with a child, who had a small courthouse wedding). I just don’t get the wedding mania.
anonymous
I think the real question is, why is it so critical to your self-esteem and self-worth for you to be “celebrated” multiple times for something that – let’s be honest – isn’t really an accomplishment?
I am married myself, for context. Getting engaged, I’m sorry, is not an accomplishment. It’s not like getting a Ph.D. or getting asked to give a keynote address at a major conference or arguing at the Supreme Court or winning the Women’s World Cup. I think it’s incredibly sad that we don’t do a better job of celebrating REAL female accomplishments and so women treat getting married like it is the greatest thing they have done or will ever do. Saying that the discussion this morning was “tearing down women” is fake feminism at its finest. Megan Rapinoe deserves a year’s worth of parties in her honor. Betty Basic who has done nothing but get some guy to put a ring on her finger? Not so much. Please examine your staggering lack of self-esteem and self-worth and consider getting therapy for your issues.
Anon
I could not agree more!
Seriously, let’s start having blowout parties for getting a PhD or arguing before federal court. I am DOWN!
Anonymous
So much this.
anon
+2. Getting married is not an accomplishment. Literally any adult can do it. Anyone.
Ellen
I wish this were onley true. I can NOT find a marrageable man, so I just wish and pray I knew your secret to snag one. FOOEY!
...
you don’t even have to be an adult with parental permission!
Anon
It is a milestone not an achievement, BUT, it’s the celebration of a new family unit and a welcoming by that person’s community as a new family unit. If you can’t understand that then…you just live in a different subculture and probably won’t get it.
Anon
Really… then why is it all about the bride?
Anon
It’s not? My brother’s gone to way more fancy bachelor parties than I have bachelorettes (mine – cheapish hotels in NJ and Philly that were local to all the guests, and one run down weekend beach rental in Atlantic City, again local; my brother has one Vegas and New Orleans in the last year alone).
Anonymous
You must be from a subculture that encourages a lot of self-absorption and bratty, me-first behavior. I’m glad not to be part of something like that, frankly.
Anon
I spent over $2,000 all-in to attend my very best friend’s wedding and all the associated events. The bachelorette party was out of state, but at her family’s cabin (so it could not have been cheaper except for the flight). There was no way in hell that I could have begged out of the party – it simply wasn’t possible and I really don’t get how people here were saying “just say no! use your words!” It literally doesn’t work like that when you’re the MOH, it’s your best friend in the world, and the bride has asked you which weekends work best for you and has made an effort to keep things low-key. Even with all that effort, it was an enormous expense that was hard to bear at a time when I had just quit my job to move across the country and go to grad school. That’s the type of thing we’re protesting with these conversations – the recent trend towards can’t-miss, expensive parties that take up an entire weekend when you’re already on the hook for wedding travel, gifts, bridesmaids dresses, showers, and everything else that goes into modern weddings.
tl;dr: It’s absolutely not about wanting to “diminish the bride,” but about not wanting to diminish my bank account to an unhealthy degree.
Anon
This.
Anon
Yes, yes, yes. The over-the-top spending at a time when most people truly can’t or shouldn’t be affording it is really frustrating. Among so many other issues I have with all of the parties around every wedding.
anon
I get this, but I assume you only have one (maybe two) “very best friends in the world”? So that type of expense should be reserved for a very tiny number of people. For everyone else, it should not be that difficult to say no (kindly and gently) and try to show her you care in another meaningful way.
Anonymous
When I was the age to be a bridesmaid, I did not have $2,000 to spend on even one friend’s wedding.
anon
yeah, idk then. If it was going to be such a financial hardship that I literally did not have the funds, I would explain it to my BFF, that I simply couldn’t pay for the flight + other costs for the bachelo##e party. Presumably she knew that you had just quit your job and were moving cross country for grad school? I never had any such party, but I would hope that if I did, and a friend came to me explaining this situation, even my very best friend, I’d be understanding and try and be grateful that she was going to be there to stand up for me on my wedding day.
Anon
In my recent experience it doesn’t stop with the engagement party/shower/bachelorette/wedding. The women I know who have gotten themselves onto this social media overexposure bandwagon have gone on to have the same kinds of expectations about their babies – pregnancy announcements, gender reveals, multiple showers, and then all the professional or semi professional photography of the babies every month.
I am married. I have kids. I love babies! (Seriously, if you have a baby watch out for me because I will grab that baby from you.)
But it’s borderline exhausting to try to keep up with all of it, not to mention expensive when we are taking about multiple showers.
I have given up on a couple of friendships when I couldn’t even have lunch with my friend without it turning into a hashtag.
Anon
I think the women you know may not be indicative of the sort of people that visit this site. Instagramming every life thing is a special kind of annoying but I think unrelated to the wedding expectation issue and more of an oversharing in general issue.
Anon
Yup, this is my experience exactly. There is a *very* strong correlation between the women who expect destination bach parties in hip cities and the women who do over the top everything for social media. Lots of people here are clearly defensive about this. But that’s absolutely been my experience. My friends and I are all affluent and love to travel, and have done several girls trips since we got married, but none of us did the expensive bach party thing, and I really don’t think it’s unrelated to the fact that we are all kind of social media averse (two of my four closest friends don’t have any social media accounts, the other two – and I – have some, but barely post and keep our kids off it completely).
Vicky Austin
OP, I absolutely get what you’re saying, but I don’t think you can quantify the scale of a celebration in the way you’re explaining. I had no bachelorette party. Friends who drove an hour to my wedding made me feel loved and celebrated. Friends who drove 10+ hours alone or flew across the country and couchsurfed with strangers to be there made me feel loved and celebrated. Friends who couldn’t come but sent sweet messages on the day made me feel loved and celebrated. If half your friends can’t afford to go to Bermuda for – not actually your wedding? – and you’re still insisting on it so that you can feel properly celebrated…that’s what I have an issue with. You don’t chuck manners out the window just because you’re getting married (and also this is not the only time in your life when you should feel free to celebrate things, but that’s another societal can of worms), and part of good manners involves not putting other people into super uncomfortable situations. Like the difficult choice of “imply to my friend that she is not a priority to me? Or spend way more money than I am comfortable with to possibly have some fun?” That’s what’s rude.
In my feelings
That’s the thing though, I didn’t imply that everyone has to come to everything. My main point was that there seems to be a judgment or indignant response to a woman even deigning to hold these events. I never said anything about a bride expecting anything from a certain person. Like the very idea of someone having multiple wedding events seemed to put people in a conniption – especially when in real life most friends aren’t invited to all of them since they are often thrown by different segments of someone’s social circle. It just feels like a very “stop expecting people to celebrate with you” when…maybe that expectation isn’t there at all (I touched on that in a comment above – that communicating versus projecting an expectation will make us all feel better). People are still projecting the sort of rejection that you’d feel if someone didn’t come to your stuff and that’s not my point at all – it’s that people are getting angry at the idea of multiple celebrations and it feels very “bring her down a peg”. And you don’t have to prove your love with attendance to multiple things but choosing to show your love through multiple events…there is nothing wrong with that and no one is making you go yet…people here seem to be focused on “me me me” instead of a healthier “good for her, not for me, I’ll see you on the wedding day or some other time if I can’t make that” attitude.
Skipper
I was invited to eleven wedding showers for the same woman. And her out of town bachelorette and her local bachelorette. And her rehearsal dinner, her day-of pedicure party, her wedding, and her day-after-brunch. I do not begrudge anyone their happiness. I do not believe invitations to be summonses. But we were B-list college friends a decade earlier. While reasonable people can disagree about where the limits for these things are, I’m hopeful we can conclude the line is somewhere on the other side of twelve gifts, two bar tabs, plane tickets, a hotel room, a pedicure, and the cost of a brunch I did not know I would be paying $25 plus tip for.
I went to the wedding weekend events only. The only time the bride spoke to me was at the brunch. She was so sad I couldn’t make the showers, she said at least twice.
(There were no cultural differences here, unless we’re talking about those between the mid-south and the deep south.)
Anon
ELEVEN!
Wow that takes the prize, and I do have some entitled relatives.
Anon
That is…a lot I do agree there is a line. I find it odd that you got invited to more than one of each kind of event. I had two showers here and the invite list did not overlap. I didn’t have a local bachelorette either. If you couldn’t make the destination bachelorette, we’ll party at the after party to the wedding, if chosen to attend.
Anon
I don’t think you can call a Vegas bachelorette party where the bride-to-be even wears a white veil to the swimming pool not attention-seeking. Come on.
anon
” it’s that people are getting angry at the idea of multiple celebrations and it feels very “bring her down a peg”.
This is an awful motivation to ascribe to someone who is just frustrated by the cost/time burdens of attending multiple events.
“And you don’t have to prove your love with attendance to multiple things but choosing to show your love through multiple events…there is nothing wrong with that and no one is making you go yet…”
A large part of the discussion was about how even though we all understand that no one is literally making us go, there is social pressure to attend and also that people legitimately *want* to attend, but it’s not always feasible. Or, noting that the bride has made choices that would not allow them to attend (like price or location) when they otherwise would love to. People want to spend time with their loved ones. 9/10 times women want to go to these events, but if they are numerous or expensive or whatever, then it puts the invitee in a difficult position of having to make a tough choice between logistical concerns and disappointing her friend and missing out on the fun herself! Hence, the plea for reasonableness. Somehow this flew over your head? And yes, there are people who expect too much out of their friends and who are attention seeking. That’s reality, and it’s not gendered. Those are the people who generate the indignant responses.
anonshmanon
So well put!
Never too many shoes...
I agree with the OP here.
But I also note that men have been having bachelor excess weekends in Vegas since time began it seems, and the rise of bachelorettes seems to be a reaction to that as much as anything else. Does anyone ever call a man entitled for having a bachelor party, even a destination one? Nope.
I am sad I married so long ago that girl weekend trips were not a bigger thing. So I love being invited to go on these trips. I would also happily do a similar weekend for a friend that made partner or celebrated a milestone of some other kind.
Anon
I call those men entitled, yes, but the fact is there are typically more events for the bride. There is no “groom’s shower” or anything like that. The cost and time burden to be a bridesmaid is probably a lot higher than to be a groomsman in most weddings.
Anon
Yeah but a bridal shower usually consists of getting gifts for the couple. It’s not like the blender on the registry is exclusively for the bride
Anon
Right– I find all of this backlash kind of bizarre, and the assumption that all of these destination bachelorette parties are part of some unreasonable wedding (overall) is also strange. DH and I both had bachelorette parties that were local for us but destination for everyone coming. We both essentially used it as an excuse to spend a weekend with friends– most other people invited did similar weekend trips for their bachs. We had a co-ed shower and did not expect out of town people to travel to it. We also did not have an engagement party. Our wedding was in my hometown, which did involve travel for a lot of our friends.
I actually am sad that all my friends are married now because bach parties were such easy ways to make sure we got together on weekend trips!
Anon
Men have not been having bachelor parties in Vegas since forever. Maybe men who lived in LA and could road trip there, or maybe some subset of very wealthy men, but from the late ‘80s through the ‘00s all of the grooms I knew had bachelor parties in their own cities.
Anon
I have so many thoughts about this!
I think it’s possible to feel these two things at once:
1. that the perceived default nature of these destination bachelorette events is a little troubling since many/most can’t afford the spending standard that’s set
2. That we DO want to celebrate our closest friends, but the problem is that now everyone invites their “closest” 15 friends to these things and it becomes harder to opt out. If we truly just celebrated with our closest 1 or2 friends, we wouldn’t feel as burdened by the invites.
I was invited to two bach celebrations in the past year. One involved 4 local friends, a picnic in the park, a tea party and lunch hosted by the bride’s sister, and a champagne toast by the lake. I didn’t have to spend a cent, and yet it was one of the most fun, intimate, and special celebrations I’ve attended of this nature.
The other bach party I was invited to was for a college friend’s second wedding. It was a week in southern France. And 20 people were invited. I was already in her first wedding and went to her bachelorette to that 10 years ago, so I politely declined. Plenty of people did go and I heard they had a fun time, which is great! But I know myself well enough to know that I would not have enough fun to justify the cost, she would not really notice my presence with 20 other guests, and I already spent plenty on her last time.
Anon
I think this is the best post on the subject so far.
Anon
Many brides I know that have invited 15 people to the bach (that were not in the bridal party) did so to offset pressure from bridesmaids attending. For example, one of my friends really wanted to go to Vegas for her bach but knew most of her bridesmaids could not afford it. In the end, only one of her bridesmaids (and several other non-bridesmaids) went.
Worry about yourself
I wonder if people are inviting 15-20 people to these parties not to offset the cost of the bride, but because they ARE figuring that some people won’t be able to make it, and a fair few won’t want to come and will cite a vague, somewhat-legit sounding excuse, and they’re really just hoping to get a good 5-10 people there. That’s usually my mindset towards invitations to regular birthdays, I figure a certain percentage won’t come, so I invite X number of people aiming for Y number of actual guests. So while the perception is that more invites = greater obligation, it might mean the opposite.
anon
I really think you’re over dramatizing what was said and misinterpreting it. People are saying things like, “I would appreciate if people would be cognizant about guest’s time/budget/vacation days when they are considering how many events to plan and what those events shall consist of. It can get overwhelming and expensive.” Or, “if a woman is going to have a destination wedding, it can be burdensome to also have a destination bach party and it is harder than you’d think to ‘just say no.'” You read that and some how heard “bad feminists are saying women can’t be celebrated more than once. They are trying to steal a woman’s shine and make her small.” No. Just no. It’s reductive and intentionally obtuse to pretend that any push back is given “just because she has something to be very happy about.” Push back is against about the practical considerations that celebrating her happiness requires of others. It’s not gendered, either, it’s just that there’s not really the equivalent for men. Unless I’m missing something?
The Nashville Person
Nashville person who piped up to support the whole idea because scooters/pedal taverns/and drunk bachelorettes at my favorite brunch spots are not my favorite part about a city I’ve loved long before the ‘rettes descended on it. I think you can do whatever you’d like, but not recognizing that your friends will feel pressure to join you and may be embarrassed to explain their financial situation when other members of the group ask why they are not there, is a huge problem. I outearn most of my best friends by a sizable amount and so I plan my plans accordingly. We eat accordingly. We hang out accordingly. If I want to do something that is expensive, I pay for it. For example, Hamilton is coming to town and I plan on buying tickets for my best friend because I would love to go and she would too, but I know they’ll be ridiculous and I can afford it. I’d never put her in a situation where she would have to tell me she could not afford it or feel bad about missing.
The point of the conversation is that many of us get invited to countless of these in one year and it is hard to not hurt feelings, etc. Sometimes my friends love things that I simply don’t, like drinking at 10 a.m. in matching tees. It’s easy to dish out advice like “grow up and don’t go,” but many things make this more difficult, like cultural expectations and wanting to support your friends.
Sure, my judgment may be clouded by how uncomfortable these groups of women look around town. I see them walking to the coffee shops near my office and around the city–super drunk at 10 a.m., in matching tees, mostly unaware of all the other awesome things in town they could be enjoying. Neighborhoods with poor zoning being taken over by Air BnBs with drunk and loud guests at all hours of the night. And I see directly how much of this is 80% for social media (see 2 hour wait at the “WhatLiftsYou” mural on the weekends).
I am sure this varies by taste and plans, but if you come to Nashville to wear cowboy boots in 90 degree weather, I just cannot imagine every single member of your party having fun. You’ll have an awesome hangover and maybe fall of a scooter. I’ve also had to do this once for a dear friend and it was mostly crappy–and I LIVE here. I still spent a small fortune and most people were fairly miserable the whole weekend because half the group wanted to do one thing and the bride wanted to accommodate everyone. I am sure these events can be fun, but this is not how I want to spend my money or my time. I wish I would have taken my friend out for something she loved, like a massage or spa day, and spent quality time with her. But I honestly did not feel I had the option without hurting feelings and saying, “I’m sorry, I can’t join the fun due to [conflict], but I want to celebrate you. Let’s do X.”
But that does not mean I don’t agree with celebrating, especially women’s accomplishments and happy moments. I celebrate all.the.things, especially with our killer food scene. I am a regular Leslie Knope and my friends act accordingly. I celebrate, send cards/gifts, etc. to celebrate all the things, even the smallest ones, but I don’t want to be pressured into being a “good friend” by having to sweat it out on the floor at the Wild Horse Saloon.
Anon
Me thinks that the number of “how dare she have a wedding event, I will not go, huff huff” posts directly correlate to the endless “I have no friends, how should I make friends, will I ever have an adult friend” posts on here. Perhaps that’s the common denominator?
Anonymous
So the implication here is that friendship is pay-to-play? If someone doesn’t want to shell out on unnecessary and expensive wedding events, they don’t deserve to have friends? Wow. What a fascinating way to look at the world. Were you in a sorority in college? The ex-sorority girls I know (not that many are willing to out themselves, 5 years out of school) are the only people I know who are comfortable with the idea of paying to have friends. This was a mean-spirited comment, by the way, that says WAY more about you than it says about other people, here or elsewhere.
Mickey
No, it’s that friendship is often about showing up. And not resenting your friends for things that aren’t really about you. Is it “paying to have friends” to go out to the bar and spend $30 on a tab? Or to join an organization that has $50 in yearly dues? Life costs money. Having life experiences with the people you care about can sometimes cost money. That doesn’t mean you’re “paying to be their friend,” any more than buying a meal when you’re on a date with a man is “paying for a boyfriend” or buying a birthday gift for a niece or nephew is “buying their affection.” Argue against our society that has set up our ways of celebrating and connecting each other to generally require some expenditure of money, fine, but the reality is what it is.
anon
“how dare she have a wedding event, I will not go, huff huff”
No, I think the issue is your reading comprehension. No one is saying this. Also, why do you think that someone who has a hard time making friends because they don’t invest in their friendships (what seems to be your theory) is going to be close enough to someone to *be invited* to their wedding events? Doesn’t make sense. Or is it your theory that you have to pay to play in friendship? Also pretty crappy.
It couldn’t possibly just be that making friends is harder when people work in offices and commute for 9-13+ hours/day and then isolate with their nuclear families.
Aurora
Seeking wisdom from the hive — have any of you had (or assisted family members who had) a double mastectomy and immediate reconstruction? My favorite and only aunt had the surgery yesterday and I’m spending the next three weeks with her to help with the recovery. She’s scared and worried, and I want to do everything I can to help her, both physically and emotionally. Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA!
Anon
No advice, but you’re a wonderful niece.
Anonymous
I had a double mastectomy and immediate reconstruction 5 years ago. I had implant reconstruction so if she is getting a flap it might be different but I would have liked a pretty soft shirt that buttoned up the front. No pulling shirts over the head for a while and loose to accomodate drains. A soft pillow to prop her self up in bed would be nice or a soft blanket she could take to chemo if she needs that. Chemo makes you feel so cold. I also liked a gift basket my office sent from Harry & David. Maybe some funny DVD’s. I was too zoned out on pain killers to follow any kind of book for quite a while. Big virtual hug to her.
Anon
One of my best friends had this surgery and it was rough. I live a 45 minute drive from her so I wasn’t one of the friends she stayed with immediately afterward but I was one of the friends who took her to follow up appointments. I took a couple of days off work to do that and was happy to do so.
It was a rough, rough surgery and recovery for her. She really could not care for herself for several days afterward. She stayed with two different friends for the first two weeks because she needed help with everything and really was worried about feeding herself.
It took a village and while I think you are absolutely wonderful for being willing to be your aunt’s sole caretaker, I wonder whether you can get some additional help, like from other friends or relatives, or even home health (insurance May pay for some of it)
Coach Laura
Carolina Charm (website northcarolinacharm) had a double and on her site, the menu pulls up Double Mastectomy – Necessities article that might be helpful. She details the whole story but it’s been a couple years now so it’s in the archives.
Aurora
Thank you thank you! This is just what I needed. I’ve started an Amazon wish list based on Carolina Charm’s recommendations :)
Anoner
A soft zip up hoodie or robe was key for me. A small pillow for the car to protect against the seatbelt. A notebook to write down pain med schedule to keep on top of the pain. Honestly she will be on pain meds the first few days and will likely be sleeping a lot. Then it’s just helping her with bathing (I didn’t shower until drains were out so my mom gave me baths with drains held up by lanyard), helping her with car doors, taking some short walks as she gets her strength back. Good luck to her and kudos to you!
Aurora
Thank you so much to everyone who posted, especially those of you who went through something similar, your comments are really helpful. There’s a lot of stuff out there on Google but it really helps to hear from folks who have gone through this firsthand. I’ve got a list full of things to order from Amazon so hopefully she will be as comfy as possible.
I also really appreciate the support and concern! My husband is coming with me, so I won’t be the sole caretaker, but our plan is for him to focus on the house and my aunt’s kids while I focus on my aunt, so hopefully we can divide and conquer.
Anonymous
Late replying, but I had a double mastectomy and immediate flap reconstruction just over 5 years ago. My biggest issue was fatigue. Taking a shower for the first week few weeks was tiring and required a nap! Anything you can do to help her just rest will likely be very helpful. If you can read her discharge instructions, that will help you know her other limitations re lifting, etc. You are very sweet to help he out during this time.
Aurora
Thank you! She’s having flap reconstruction as well, so I’m glad you weighed in. Reading the discharge instructions is a great idea, I’ll photograph them on my phone if I can so we have an easy reference. My aunt is a fairly stubborn, stoic type so getting her to rest and relax is definitely going to be a challenge — she’s not used to relying on other people and was apparently still volunteering to help out with things at her kids school shortly after the surgery until her doctor told her in no uncertain terms she was not allowed to do so. I will do everything possible to help her rest.
Anon
Book gift recommendation needed! I’d like to give a book to each of my cousins, older one is 18 and feels strongly about social/feminist issues (we bond over that – for example we both loved the Notorious RBG book), younger one is 15 and likes art and craft, makeup and gymnastics.
Book can be fiction or non-fiction, not sure what they are reading these days but don’t think they do much reading. Their grandma/other aunts tend to give them clothes, makeup and jewelry so I’d like to not add to that, I’ve also gifted them art or makeup items in the past. They live in another country so gift cards etc. won’t work.
Z
Last year I bought a really cool graphic novel called Brazen: Rebel Ladies Who Rocked the World. I’m in my 20’s and I loved it, but its also definitely appropriate for teens.
cbackson
I LOVED “How to Be a Woman” and it would be suitable for the 18 year old (not for the younger one – it’s swear-y and explicit on all manner of issues). It’s also super funny.
For the younger one, Holly Black’s The Cruel Prince is a recent YA read that I loved. Or Maggie Stiefvater’s The Raven Boys series is wonderful.
Is it Friday yet?
+1 for the Raven Cycle
Anon
15 is definitely not too young for swearing and s3x.
Panda Bear
I wonder if the 18 year old would like And the Band Played On. Its heavy but reads almost like s novel rather than nonfiction. I read that book around her age, maybe my twenties? It opened my eyes to the social/political/activism history of HIV/AIDS. I was too young to actually experience what the aids crisis was like, so I only had fuzzy notions of why it was such a big deal. That book amazed and inspired me.
Inspired By Hermione
Oooh so many ideas.
If she’s a mature 18 and likes RBG, RBG: A Life was an excellent biography. Otherwise, Bad Feminist might be good.
I also loved The Hate U Give. Could be gifted to both. The Sun is Also a Star. Just Mercy. These are all American social issues, primarily.
I’ll look at good reads and post more later!
Anon
Thank you all! I want to avoid explicit books for Reasons related to her parents disapproval (younger kid may read it etc). I also will pass on the RBG book since I’ve done that before. I am thinking I will do The Hate U Give for the older one and Brazen for the younger one, so they can swap after they read. Open to other ideas too!
But now that I am reading through the other recommendations, I think I want a couple of those books for myself! Thanks again.
SF
late in the day but elaine welteroth’s new memoir would be great
Anon.
My Camelbak water bottle is dying a slow death by leakage. Anybody have a water bottle they love or recommendations for a good replacement? Requirements: 1) straw or similar device (unscrewing a lid is too much work), 2) must fit in standard size cup holder in my car, 3) dishwasher safe.
More Sleep Would Be Nice
I have a Yet tumbler and LOVE it. I also got it free through work though, so I get why the price tag on retail can give sticker shock. It fits all of your requirements; no straw, but it has a slider on the lid that you sip from.
anon
Yeti sells interchangeable tops with straws to use instead of the slider top.
Anon
I love my hydroflasks! It’s great for both warm and cold drinks, and they sell interchangeable lids to meet whatever your preference is.
Is it Friday yet?
If it’s an Eddy and the silicone bite valve is leaking, you can get a new one on amazon, just fyi.
ATL rette
I think Camelbak has a lifetime guarantee! They also sell replacement bite valves and lids if that’s what you need.
MagicUnicorn
I love my Contigo water bottle. It does not have a straw but has the one-handed squeeze to drink spout thingie. No leaks.
Anonymous
Posted late – can someone fill me in on the Bachelerotte —
Have only watched a few episodes of this season though watched hometowns. Can someone fill in the blanks? Is Luke really that religious? Because the other guys keep talking about how mean, nasty he is — hardly the good Christian boy behavior we saw in his hometown and at Sunday school? Relatedly — does he not garden? Because the preview for next week suggests he says something critical about her gardening with 4 guys and how it isn’t allowed based on religion and it looks like she kicks him out (either off the show or just sends him home for the night and ends the date). Is he this seasons first impression? What does she see in him? I know she’s said there’s attraction but it’s not like she isn’t physically attracted to Tyler?
nona
Luke is a s!utsh*ming *sshat who wants to control her thru withholding his approval. He is totally toxic and I gotta believe is only still there because the producers want the drama.
Ellen
I would never garden with a guy like him again. Pretending to be above gardening is the oldest trick in the book to lull us women into feeling safe alone with a guy (Jim). In college I fell for this and only figured it out when all of a sudden he put his hands inside of my panties in my dorm room while we were watching Wheel of Fortune on my bed once my roommate left the room. FOOEY on Jim. I made him leave immediately. DOUBEL FOOEY on men like Jim!
GOT newb / DVF veteran
I am a newbie to GOT. The spontaneously unwrapping dresses (Melisandre?) makes me have flashbacks to when my toddler daughter hit the knot on my DVF dress and it exploded open.
Anon
I like the vulture recaps for more details but basically, Hannah gave Luke the first impression rose, and she’s REALLY into him (and she has more issues with craving attention than the average contestent). He played STRONG in the begining (I’m starting to fall in love with you ON THE FIRST GROUP DATE), and she fell harder for him. But also he’s nasty and gaslighty (and, personally, I think he has all the warning signs of being an abuser).
So basically ALL the men in the house have been “Luke is bad news” and Hannah refuses to see it. He strikes me as someone who has gardened but who is now waiting (I don’t think this has been spelled out bus was alluded to last night when they went to Sunday School). I think he’s her physical type and she’s just having a hard time walking away from him, because he’s very sincere when he’s with her (I mean, he lies through his teeth, but she’s buying it, because as I said, she’s VERY into male attention).
Shopaholic
It was spelled out – he said that he used to chase s3x but then heard God talk to him in the shower or some nonsense like that?
She’s falling for it because she’s young and even though he is so toxic and manipulative, he tells her what she wants to hear. I think she’s religious as well so she’s really attracted to the fact that he’s so open about his faith even though he’s gross and regressive and I think one of the most dangerous contestants that’s been on the show.
lsw
I’m 100% with you on that take (re: dangerous contestants). I got really angry with the edit during Luke’s 1950s-style embarrassing, gaslighting, insulting, completely humiliating misogynist tirade during the group date about the bungee jumping. That should have had villain music (not tinkly “I’m just bearing my heart” music), and we should have seen Hannah’s reaction. There is absolutely no way she just sat there and “mm hmmm’d.” This guy is a piece of garbage and the show needs to stop way, way short of legitimizing his absolutely dangerous and disgusting BS.
I’m not expecting some progressive third-wave feminism from this show but I would like to at least not be insulted by it.
Anonymous
How do you deal with being out of sync, life stage wise, from your friends? This is not something that has historically bothered me – I have a close group of friends from college and we have historically all been in slightly different phases. Like, I went to grad school right out of college, so I was still a student while they embarked on their “real” lives. Some of them took time off to travel while I was starting my first year job. I was single when they were in relationships and vice versa. And so on and so forth.
Now, I’m only one of the only ones without kids, and it’s really stressing me out. I recently started to feel a crushing amount of social pressure to start trying, and so I have. I realized I would wake up and be excited about having a baby, but when I imagine my future, there are children in it. I felt like I can’t put it off any longer (I’m 32), but I am terrified, plus I love my life and having a baby will require major changes to that life.
I have never felt this level of social pressure before – I’ve always done my own thing and it was fine. But I feel left behind, and left out, and I kind of hate myself for feeling that way. I was incredibly relieved to get my period my first month of trying and I’m worried this intense feeling of pressure is clouding my judgment about what is a major life decision. I feel like this is the classic parental question :”if all of your friends jumped off a bridge, would you?.” Advice on how to sort through the noise?
Anonymous
Omg you’re 32. You are t ready. Stop trying
anon
Honestly? The majority of my friendships have died when we were in different life stages (lots of this is due to geography as well). Unfortunately that’s just how it turned out for me.
Anon
Nothing to say but I commiserate. It’s hard to make clear headed decisions about things when everyone around you is doing that thing so it seems like the logical choice since hey “they’re doing it and they seem happy.” And it feels bad to feel “left behind” even though that is not really what is happening, you’re just living life differently. I’ve often read that it’s really the infant and toddler years to expect your friends to more or less disappear into their “kid self” and will reemerge during school age years when they’ve gotten a chance to settle down and reclaim themselves. You won’t find your life so different/divergent when they have a kid at an age where they won’t impale themselves without constant supervision.
Anonymous
This is a more succinct way of explaining how I feel – thank you!
Anonymous
Do you really want kids? Don’t have them just because of some societal pressure.
I am childless by choice. It was hard when my friends had kids, because I felt like they had moved on and left me behind. It felt like we didn’t have much in common anymore. And it felt like they were somehow better than me now that they had kids. I know it’s not rational, but I can relate to what you’re feeling.
I’m 41 now and I feel totally different now. I’ve never had a lot of friends, but I have a few people in my life that I’m close to and share common interests with.
Anon
I’ll just say that when I got pregnant accidentally at 32 (while married), I had an abortion. Four months later we conceived a child on purpose. Although it was an incredibly small time difference, there was SUCH a huge difference in my level of readiness for motherhood. Pregnancy and motherhood are hard enough, you don’t need to add resentment to it by doing it at the wrong time. We have a lovely 3 year old now and am so glad I waited to have HER.
Anon
+1 this is me, minus the abortion. I did not feel ready at 30 or 31 or 32 or 33. It was hard because many friends were doing it and I was aware that I had all the things I “needed” in order to be a mom (a loving partner, a house, financial stability, etc.) But I’m so glad I waited. I turned 34 and it was like a switch flipped. I wanted a baby in a way I never had before. Motherhood has been completely joyous for me, even the hard moments, and I think it’s because I waited until I was really ready to have a child and say goodbye to my carefree, childfree life. For some people that moment never comes, for some of us it comes later than it comes for other people. Waiting until you’re really ready for motherhood makes it SO much better.
Anon
At 31, when the timing was right (finances, age, stability, etc), my husband and I TTC’d. I cried when I went off the pill. I had never really wanted kids, but I felt like I needed to. After a couple months of trying, I got into it, but we didn’t conceive, and I ended up going back to school, so we quit TTC. We ended up amicably divorcing when I was 33. I met my current husband at 36 and with him, I absolutely wanted kids. Whether it was age or the man, I can’t say (I lean more toward it being the man), but it might be worth doing some introspection here. Your omission of him in your post struck me.
Anonymous
This is a good point a but he was only omitted because he is lovely. He has said that he will have kids whenever I am ready or wait as long as I want. The reasons why I have not been ready are specific to me – a series of family member health crises and a series of amazing career opportunities for me, at the same time, which are now over/accomplished. I could have written a novel in my original post but I think part of this is just an extension of that issue – our life was very hectic for a few years . I came out of my haze and realized everyone else had had kids while I was off doing something else and they seemed quite happy. I do think I am still envisioning our previous overly busy life, in which there was no room for a baby, when in fact life is much more relaxed now.
Anon
It seems like everyone is in sync now, but that will change. I am 10 years older than you and in my small group of 6 friends from college, a couple moved countries, one woman’s husband died, one got divorced and remarried, one had charges filed against her for some wrongdoing related to her employer, another founded a startup, one had an abortion…. people diverge. Life stages is not a binary thing (with or without kids).
We are all still good friends and the divergence doesn’t matter as much as you think it does (though some of us with kids in our infant and toddler stages didn’t respond very much, but we bounced back).
Parfait
My only advice is: if you’re not 100% ready and happy to raise a child right now, then don’t. It doesn’t seem like you’re at that stage.
JazzyRose
I’m 27 and really feel the social pressure to get married as so many of my friends and classmates do. I’m about to start law school though, so my Mom’s attitude is that there’s no hurry. She had me at 36 (nearly 37) and had my brother nearly at 41, naturally.
There’s a lot of scaremongering about advanced maternal age–but society completely ignores the risk factors associated with advanced paternal age.
Take your time and enjoy that all your friends will have experience and wisdom by the time you have your own kids.
Terrible, Terrible TV
Did anyone watch What/If on Netflix? It was the worst show I’ve seen in a long time that I absolutely, 10000% could not stop watching. Anyone else?
Anon
I haven’t watched that, but on the subject of terrible, terrible TV, I just got sucked into Southern Charm. I don’t even know why since I don’t typically watch any reality shows and barely watch TV overall. I can’t explain it.
ALC
LOL I love Southern Charm and was trying to explain it to my husband the other day, but he was baffled. The guy who finally finished law school and now sells pillows that his personal assistant sews for him!!
Anon
Me: Texicanas on Bravo
Absolutely mesmerized
Anonymous
I will check out What/If.
My guilty pleasure is Claws on TNT. It just keeps getting wilder and wilder and less believable/realistic and I love it so much. SO GOOD.
lsw
Ahhhh, I love Claws! I got my husband into it. It’s the show I look forward to the most right now. The musical number in the casino?!? Chef’s kiss emoji!
Anon
Will be in San Diego (near downtown) for work. Any suggestions on something fun or interesting to do in the evening by myself? TIA!
Anon
Surfing lesson!
SMC - San Diego
I am not sure surfing lessons would be a good evening activity in San Diego (not to mention the good surfing is not anywhere near downtown).
The San Diego Zoo is having its nigh time at the zoo hours so it is open until 9:00 p.m. That is a lot of fun and I highly recommend. You combine that with dinner or drinks on the patio at the Prado if you are looking for nearby food options. This is particularly a good option if the fog rolls in.
You can also take the ferry over to Coronado. If you have time, it is fun to rent a bike at the ferry landing and ride the bike path around to the Hotel Del Coronado. Alternatively you can Uber or take the bus over to the Del and admire the hotel, have a drink on their patio and walk the beach north (it is a very pretty beach).
If you need more ideas, let me know. Also, PLEASE say you are not coming next week – especially Wednesday through Sunday? If so, you will need lots of advice since that is Comic-Con.
Anonymous
The Intrepid!
You will never again feel like you have too much closet space. And you don’t have to hot bunk (which could be a way to save $ on rent in SF and other expensive places if you are a shift worker).
Anonymous
Has anyone ever ordered from eShakti — I’m curious what people’s experiences are with the “custom sizing” versus the traditional “order your size”
Anon Lawyer
I’ve only ordered the traditional sizing. It always seems like it should fit from the size charts and then was too tight in the chest. I gave up but I guess could try the custom sizing someday.
Anon
I didn’t have any better luck with the custom sizing.
Everything I got from there felt shabby and cheaply made and I just hated the fabrics. If 90% of your wardrobe is from forever 21 you might think it’s nice but otherwise I’d pass.
Anonymous
I have, but traditional sizing. One worked out perfectly, and is maybe a smidge tight in the bust. It is a super cute off the shoulder dress that I wear for events.
The other was….a travesty. It was way too big in the chest and waist, maybe by at least 2 sizes. I eventually cut off and got rid of the top altogether to have the bottom made into a midi skirt.