ByElizabeth Hours Updated
Comments 380 Comments

Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Cashmere V-Neck Ribbed Trim Long Tunic

One of my biggest fashion pet peeves from 2020 was the proliferation of cropped tops. I understand that they look cute with high-rise pants, but at a time when I’m leaning hard into comfy clothes, I want my tops long and flowy. Please give me all the tunics.

I love this version from Neiman Marcus. It would look great lounging around the house in leggings, or if you’re venturing out into the world, with skinny ankle pants.

The sweater is $186, marked down from $295 — and an extra 25% off reduces it to $165.75. It comes in sizes XS–XL. Cashmere V-Neck Ribbed Trim Long Tunic

It's not quite tunic length, but J.Crew has a cashmere boyfriend sweater that goes up to size 3X and is available in lots of colors for $138.

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

380 Comments

    1. GA is truly a symbol of hope and important progress this morning, and your state has so much to be proud of!

    2. Thank you! Somehow this felt even bigger than November because voters weren’t just rejecting Trump the man, they were rejecting Trumpism and the Republican Party as a whole. I finally have hope now.

    3. Thank you from North Florida. I hope we can carry on with what GA started when it’s Rubio and deSantis’ turn in 2020.

    4. Good morning from DeKalb County!
      I still can’t believe it.
      To all who wrote off “the south,” and there are def more than a few on this s i t e, I hope you have reconsidered and started working against voter suppression.

      1. +1
        Thank you Georgia!

        I live about 20 miles from the birth place of the man in the White House who is trying to end American democracy. My neighbors are more ignorant, bigoted and supportive of authoritarianism than the people of Georgia as a whole. Shame on any northern liberal who would look down on them.

      2. I have to ask, is it really pronounced Dah-Cab? I grew up in central IL and DeKalb IL is pronounced Da-Kal-B. I know we don’t say Cairo the “correct” way either so curious if it’s an Illinois thing or a newscaster thing.

      1. Agreed! I’m very cautiously optimistic but things are looking good.

        Thanks to all the fellow Georgians who voted and also those of you outside of the state that volunteered in some capacity.

      2. Same, but I’m glad for Georgians that the flood of campaigning is now over!

    8. I’m still not OK with running over his ex’s foot. The summer camp stuff maybe he didn’t know about but I wish I felt better about him (other than he is D not R).

      1. I just looked that up – if he had in fact run over her foot, wouldn’t the medics have found some sign of injury? contusion, broken bones, etc.? I don’t think a foot would escape a car running over it unscathed.

        1. His ex-wife said he did. And I tend to believe people saying that they suffered intimate partner violence.

          2. Wait, what? The video isn’t of the incident. It’s of him afterwards saying he didn’t think he ran over her foot. So if there’s video of the alleged perp saying he doesn’t think he did it, then you don’t believe the woman? Woof.

          3. In reply to anonymous at 10:07, I watched the video – it’s a body cam of the police questioning them in the aftermath of the alleged incident. In a story where the only two direct participants dispute the facts, I would tend to trust facts or evidence that would support one side versus the other. Here, she is alleging her foot was run over and a medical examination found no injury, I would tend to believe that medical exam. I’m not saying I am relying on his account, but her account isn’t borne out by medical evidence. Are you arguing that her account should be believed solely because she’s the one making the accusation?

          4. You said video and first responder medical exams. I am arguing with your statement about the video. I think that is very misleading to say that video supports his story. Yes, the medical exams support his story, although it could be ambiguous (not an expert). I was just responding to your misleading statement about the video.

          5. Anonymous at 10:14 – yes, that is what she is saying. We have a contingent of people here who find it necessary, for whatever reason, to hone in on anything a candidate has ever done or said that doesn’t fit with the approved radical liberal agenda (and I say that as a moderate liberal myself). It’s counterproductive, it makes people look ignorant and pigheaded, and it doesn’t help advance progressives in any way, shape or form. But it does give the poster(s) the opportunity to look down on people from a specious moral high ground, which is apparently richly satisfying for them, emotionally. It personally makes me sick.

          6. I choose to believe no medical record of injury as otherwise you can only rely on he said/she said. And I especially don’t believe one account over another whenever there is an emotionally charged relationship. The fact they are divorced actually makes either of their accounts suspect.

            What I do know is that Loeffler campaigned with KKK support, profited in a disgusting way off of insider knowledge of the coming pandemic, and pretended not to be aware of Trump’s “grab them by the p” moment. All of that is clearly out there.

            Your purity test of “whatever a once-intimate partner says must be true”just isn’t fair. And it’s these sorts of comments that hurt liberals.

        2. My friend ran over my foot on accident, and I had no injuries. I was wearing harness boots but still. If the edge of a tire runs over your foot, it’s not crushing you, but it’s still holding you in place (you can’t pull it out on your own), so it’s alarming. The driver may well have no idea.

        3. I’ve had my foot run over by a car (in heels, no less). Granted, she was moving in to an intersection from a complete stop, but nothing was broken. Almost broke my elbow on the side of her car, however.

      2. His ex-wife said it had no place in the Senate election, and no charges were filed.

        1. That’s not true. There’s a video of her begging people not to vote for him. It just didn’t get play in the media.

    9. I am feeling so optimistic this morning! That’s due to Stacey Abram’s work, the voters of GA and the volunteers in and out of GA getting out the vote. It may be slightly too early to go this far but THANK YOU for wresting the country from the Mitch’s clutches/The current Republican party’s dysfunctional stranglehold.

    10. I was born in Georgia but don’t usually “claim” it because my family moved when I was a baby.

      I started donating to Fair Fight shortly after the November election because I was so proud of what my birth state was doing. I think I’ll increase that donation.

    11. Sending 100 postcards, 50 of them to cbackson, to thank the voters. Then I’m picking a SC family and adopting them.

      2. I will miss your texts bc I’m going to be offline all day building an effigy of Kelly Loeffler out of campaign mailers, which I plan to ceremonially set afire and sink in the Chattahoochee River in a sort of Viking funeral for Trumpism.

        Actually, that’s probably more epic than she/Trumpism deserve, so maybe I’ll just take the day off and break into the stash of special-occasion beer (Orpheus Brewing Transmigration of Souls, in case you want to drink some solid Georgia beer today).

        If you can’t tell, am literally giddy this AM.

        1. Oh man, that beer sounds amazing. GA beer is awesome in general and largely the reason why I no longer drink (turns out there was too much of a good thing for me). I hope one of these days Orpheus or Terrapin or somebody will try their hand at a good NA brew.

        3. I would drive across state lines and stand, socially distanced of course, watching this with joy in my heart. Also glee, lots of glee.

    12. Over my holiday, I did some genealogy work and discovered that a many times great grandfather owned over 100 slaves in Georgia. This win today feels even more poignant knowing that.

    13. Thank you Georgia! I drove through your state over the holiday break and couldn’t believe the number of billboards. I know this win did not come easily and I am filled with hope today.

    16. Georgia and Wisconsin are both great examples of how long term investment in a state can make such a difference. Stacey Abrams has taken some criticism about the decisions she’s made in the past few years but she stayed the course and it paid off. One of my takeaways from this year’s elections is that it is so important to maintain a consistent level of funding to state organizations to build the foundations outside of election years. I’ll be continuing my Fair Fight Georgia recurring donation monthly and am planning to select a few other state organizations to send monthly donations. I would really encourage others to do the same!

    17. It’s going to be a LONG 4 years with Dems in control of everything. Hope everyone is looking forward to the 0% market returns all in the name of equality or social justice or lifting up illegals or whatever the cause of the day is.

      1. I would gladly take 0% market returns in exchange for reproductive rights, affordable healthcare and higher education and a government that actually cares about protecting the environment for future generations. The millions of dollars my kids might inherit would be meaningless if the planet has become uninhabitable. But of course you know that the markets will be fine, you’re just tr0lling,

        1. You’re looking forward to losing money as inflation will end up over 2% and the market returns under that amount? You must be one of the geniuses who thought Dems in all 3 branches was perfect then. Get rid of DJT, sure, I voted for that; give Dems control of it all — uh yeah great idea. Biden will be a one term president, back to the GOP in 2024 so make all the equality gains you can between now and then lol.

          1. The Republicans are not capable of governing in a measured way. They have a scorched earth strategy that leads up to a constitutional crisis. No interest in moderation or reaching across the aisle leads to instability. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

        2. Me too! I’ll gladly give up some financial returns if people aren’t you know…dying.

      3. Me too! I’ll gladly give up some financial returns if people aren’t you know…dying.

        2. Most of Obama’s economy was coming out of a recession. In fact we were out of the recession technically by 2010-11, yet no one really felt that way until 2013 onwards. So yeah while the metrics were in Obama’s favor, by no means was it a great economy day to day.

          1. I was just going to say, I made good money during Obama’s second term. Maybe you just invested poorly OP?

      5. I’ll take those Obama-era market returns any time.
        Go cry in your McMansion while the rest of us look forward to the possibility of actual progress, however incremental it may be.

          1. Only if you crowdsource the brand and fit and price on every option you’re considering first

      7. Keep flowing those salty tears! You Republicans are like the kids on the playground in elementary school that kept trying to change around the rules of the game so you’d win – and yet you still lost due to general incompetence. The fact that you’re being such whiny sore losers is just icing on the cake. Die mad!

        2. So grateful for kind people like you, eveee, who understand that prayer is the only solution to our woes.

          ;)

        3. Tots & pears, tots & pears. Worth more than all the thoughts and prayers offered at every tragedy.

      9. Well, now we all know what side you would have been on in 1930’s Germany.

      10. Do you understand that much of the economic impact on the GDP this year could have been avoided by competent management of the pandemic?

    18. WOO HOO!! THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SAVING AMERICA!

      Georgia is first on my list of vacation destinations when such a thing is possible!!

  2. For the Anonymous poster from yesterday’s afternoon post looking for more book recommendations, preferably from women, after reading Off The Clock, Tiffany Shlain’s “24/6: Giving Up Screens One Day a Week to Get More Time, Creativity, and Connection” might hit the mark for you! Good Luck!

  3. I’m looking for tips/suggestions or general motivation to cut down on scrolling on my phone and increase my reading. Without a commute to get me reading daily I’ve stopped reading at night too. I think that time each day on the train got me moving through the book enough that at home I’d then want to keep going. I’ve set timers on apps etc.

    1. I love my old school kindle because I always have multiple books with me. I keep a list of books I want to read in my planner and I often have books teed up that I am truly looking forward to reading. Do you like to read or just feel like you ‘should?’ I usually have a couple books going so that I can read the one that I ‘feel’ like reading.

      1. This. I LOVE to read and read a ton before during my travel time (flights, in hotel rooms, etc.) but hit a wall HARD during the pandemic. I just didn’t have the attention span or emotional bandwidth for ‘serious’ books so I gave myself permission to buy/read ‘fun’ books – fantasy, YA, romance, etc. I’d rotate in a heavy book and would dip in and out of it, but for me reading begat reading. Just start small – magazines, short stories and then read whatever you enjoy. I look at reading the same way I would with any other media – there will always be the ‘big’ ‘serious’ books, but also the lighter/funnier/brain candy books – both are fine and reading one for a while doesn’t mean you’ll never read a Pulitzer prize winner again.

      2. These are great points. If you feel like you “should” instead of “want to” read, just take a pass for a while and find or try a different screen-less hobby. Anonymous at 9:12 below mentions audiobooks, and I would add podcasts to that too if you want a reading adjacent activity.

      3. +1 – I read more when it’s books I want to read. A long time ago I gave myself permission to leave “assigned literary reading” behind in school.

      4. Yes, agree with all this. Also have banished my phone from the bedroom and only have my Kindle on my nightstand so I’m forced to read actual books rather than doomscroll. That has been a game-changer.

    2. I had this too. I had to go back to my shameless enjoyment reading to get back in the groove, so the books you love and get attached to and have to consume as much as possible, those are the books you need to choose. And then, try to read off your phone. I use my Paperwhite. I’m ride or die Paperwhite: it’s easy to pick up anywhere and anytime, and it’s just for reading. Finally, unfollow accounts that are hate follows or you have no interaction with. Cull that feed. I removed Facebook from my device, I found that scrolling to be more of a wasteful time suck. I can still get Facebook elsewhere if I want, but I can’t just mindlessly go there anymore. But, back to the first step, get a book that you just enjoy and need to consume. For me that’s Fantasy Romance books… but for some that’s crime novels, chick lit… etc. Or, you do you, if your consumable book is “1776,” get on it.

      1. I love my Paperwhite too but the placement of the power button infuriates me. I accidentally hit it all the time. If I try to prop it up to read while I’m eating it will hold the button down long enough that it restarts. They could easily solve this problem with a software fix that lets us rotate 180.

        1. I loved my paperwhite, but upgraded to the Oasis a few years ago and love it so much. My paperwhite touch screen started to get glitchy after a while, so I like having physical buttons to turn the page, and it automatically adjust the screen brightness based on the ambient light. Plus I like being able to read in the pool/at the beach and not worry about water damage.

          Also agree with Lilliet that letting yourself read whatever you find enjoyable is a great way to get back in the groove. I read an absurd number of fantasy-romance books, which I would have never thought I’d be into a few years ago. It’s a great break from the technical reading I have to do for work.

          1. Yes, I shamelessly consume just about anything Ilona Andrews writes! I adore fantasy/sci-fi and as long as it’s relatively well-written I’m up for it!

          2. Adding Ilona Andrews to my list of books to consume! Thank you Anne-on!

            Anon @ 9am, I wonder if it depends on which version you have? I just propped mine up to test and I don’t have this problem. I keep getting an ad for Amazon trade-in… so if you have a later version you could trade-in for a newer paperwhite or the Oasis givemyregards mentions!

          6. Anonymous at 10:16, some of these are more romance, some more fantasy, some are incorrectly shelved as YA (mostly Maas and Armentrout!):
            – I’m a broken record for all of Sarah J Maas’s books: A Throne of Glass Series, A Court of Thorns and Roses (This is my favorite Fantasy Romance series), and Crescent City
            – Jennifer Armentrout’s books: Blood and Ash Series (has a s*x scene that made me blush), The Harbinger Series, and she has other series I’ve yet to get into that people go ga-ga for.
            – Deborah Harkness, All Souls Trilogy
            – Sara Holland: Everless series, Haven Fall (only 1 book out for this one though)
            – Laura Sebastion: Ash Princess Trilogy
            – Holly Black: The Folk of Air series
            – Marie Rutkoski: The Winner’s Trilogy
            – Amy Bartol: Kricket series

            Pure escapism-fun is my goal, and these are the books that I’ve devoured.

          7. +1 for Sarah Maas – both A Throne of Glass Series and A Court of Thorns and Roses were great (in my opinion the first books in each series were the worst and they get progressively better). I also love a long series because it takes the guess work out of what to read next. I also like Charlie Holmberg’s Paper Magician series – it was pretty goofy, but a fun read. I couldn’t get past the first book in the Numina series though, and usually I’ll power through just about series just because it’s easier than picking something else to read. The Fever series by Karen Marie Moning is pretty steamy but I skipped the 7th one because apparently it had some questionable content.

            Adding many of the other suggestions to my “want to read” list in Goodreads!

    3. I’ve struggled with this too with WFH because I used to like to read in the office on my breaks. Now it feels like I never have a break from work. Following.

    4. I’m doing more audiobooks while I do chores (cooking, laundry, etc) and jog. You can also listen to an audiobook while playing games like Candy Crush.

    5. I thought I loved my kindle but I realized I read a lot more when I switched back to paper books. Leaving it out on my coffee table reminds me that I want to get back to it in a way that the kindle doesn’t, and browsing in bookstores is my favorite way to find stuff to read (I’m not doing that now but I did 2-3 bookstore hours this summer when numbers were low, and have a decent sized pile to read through for this winter!).

    6. OP here – I do love reading & love getting lost in a book but I’m finding both audiobooks and shows on my iPad more attractive as I can do that while pottering around. It seems hard now to sit down for an hour and read. Part of me thinks it’s actually my paper white that’s the problem. I love having books on it but I’ve found it hard to pick books, the top sellers on Amazon are often free and not great quality which I think skews what I see. The books I have loved in the past year have been paperbacks picked in a bookshop.

      1. I sometimes get overwhelmed in this way and what I’ve started doing is putting a bunch of books on reserve at the library a few times a year. I borrow e-books, and most of the e-books I’m interested have wait times of 1-6+ months. So basically I sit down, look at NPR/Goodreads/Amazon recommendations, reserve 10 books – and then they roll in over the next few months. I just read whatever comes in next. They’re all free and it limits decision making to a few times a year.

        1. This is what I do – (but I read on my phone in the Libby app, which works best for me). It’s great, and if I start reading something I don’t like, I just stop reading it an return it! It’s so freeing to quit a book.

          1. +1. I also used to “go shopping” at the library before Covid, and just pick out an armload of books that looked interesting. Some I loved, and some I quit without any hesitation.

        2. Yes, I read almost exclusively library books. Having a deadline is very motivating! The ebooks I actually buy never get read, but the library ebooks always do! Like you, I request based on recs here and reviews on NPR and in the NY Times and Amazon, plus skim the new ebooks each week, and then just read whenever they come in.

        3. I do this, too, and it works really well for me.

          I also gave myself permission years ago to stop trying to make myself read “serious” books that I didn’t enjoy. Based on that, I’ve gotten my Amazon algorithm reasonably well-trained by only buying books that I actually want to read, and making heavy use of downloading previews before I buy as an additional screen. I also have a few go-to spots and friends for accumulating non-algorithmic recommendations.

          But OP, there’s no shame in going with audiobooks if that’s what’s working for you right now. That’s a totally valid way to engage with the written word.

      2. OP, my reading went WAY up when I switched back to paper books from my kindle. Something about having the physical book on my coffee table gets me to sit down and read. If it’s safe in your area, go to a bookstore. If it’s not, call your bookstore and ask them to recommend a few things and prepare them for curbside pick up for you. Another idea is checking out all the “best books of 2020” lists out there for some ideas (like the NYT and New Yorker ones), or looking for new books by authors you enjoyed in the past.

    7. Read on the Kindle app on your phone. That’s the only thing that worked for me when I was commuting.

    8. I started listening to audio books while doing so many things, such as exercise, walking the dog, etc. I know it isn’t reading but it has helped me stop scrolling… I also set the timer and listen as I fall asleep. It has helped me fall asleep faster. Maybe something to consider.

    9. You should put your phone attached to its charger in the other room as soon as you are done with work for the day. If you want to use it, you can go stand up and use it while it’s plugged in. That helps me avoid using it for hours in bed or on the couch.

    10. I’ve struggled with the same issue. A couple things I have found helpful:

      -biggest realization was that I had replaced my reading habit with social media and YouTube scrolling. Before the invention of either, I would read a few pages out of boredom. Now it’s watch a short YouTube video or check social media. Having the Libby app on my phone was helpful in replacing the same urge to scroll with scrolling a book.

      -I too read a lot more trashy fiction last year than usual. To combat that, I use Goodreads to track what I’m reading. I set a goal to read 52 books. Instead of randomly picking a book to read, I chose 52 books to read for this year and marked them as “currently reading” on the app. This helps keep me on track to finish the more meaningful books I Pre-selected. Some of these books are literary classics. But I’ve come to terms with not finishing a literary classic because I could not get into it. In that scenario, I just mark it as read, without rating it, and immediately move on to another Pre-selected book/classic. There are enough classics out there that if you pass on 3 classics in a row after reading a few pages, you will eventually find something that sticks.

      -I’m sticking to audiobooks when I walk, do chores, or eat meals.

      -I set aside time from 8pm and afterwards for reading every day.

    11. Another vote for borrowing ebooks from the library! The return dates are a great motivator and I also like that the app tracks your reading time. There is always a turning point for me when I see that I have only three hours left in a book – at that point I do the math in my head and realize that I can finish the book in three days if I just stick to it.
      When I get to that “three hours left” mark I finding myself reading constantly- while I brush my teeth, while eating breakfast or lunch, on my downtime instead of scrolling, first thing before I get out of bed in the morning… it all adds up.

  4. Hey all! I’m looking for a long cardigan, like duster length, that HAS buttons. I see tons that are open, but buttons have been requested (it is for a gift). Also needs to be of something soft but able to be machine washed. Probably not cotton but a blend with anything but wool should be OK.

  5. I am at home too much. I am noticing stains on my stainless flat wear. Like maybe it is from putting dirty things (knives with PB and J still smeared on them) in the dishwasher? I thought stainless was supposed to be stainless.

    This is why I miss the office. Just work stuff is taunting me there. And no zoom school in the background.

    1. You may need to run vinegar and baking soda through you dishwasher to clean it out if things are coming back a little spotty. If that doesn’t do the trick, I also like using the finish max in 1 tablets, since I have hard water that can make result in water spots, and that seems to work for me.

    3. We don’t run our knives in the dishwasher because they don’t get clean and they get stains on them. This is because they usually have stuff like peanut butter on them that doesn’t seem to come off easily but I also read somewhere that knives use a cheaper grade of stainless than the rest of the silverware set and are prone to staining in the dishwasher. We also have really, really hard water and everything comes out with hard water spots, but we’ve pretty much given up on that as a lost cause at this point, since we rent and don’t have control over things like a whole house water softener.

      1. Just adding, we already use a rinse aid and have cleaned the dishwasher a ton of times. We run vinegar through it regularly and the cleaning tabs monthly. OP, if you haven’t done those things already, you should. We also have tons of trouble with bad smells, despite all of this, so if anyone has suggestions for that, I’d love to hear them. At this point, it seems like we have to run one cleaning cycle for every two or three real loads of dishes, which is getting completely ridiculous, but otherwise our dishes smell like cat food. The dishwasher is only a year old, but again, we rent, so we don’t have much control over it. We clean the filter every time we run it.

        1. We had an issue with a stinky dishwasher that turned out to be caused by crud and mildew in the hinges. The cleaning cycle didn’t reach that space. A cleaning brush got it all out.

        2. Do you have a disposal? I have no idea if this is true, but I have heard that the weird smells can be from a disposal being somewhat clogged with rotting food and the smell can infiltrate the dishwasher. Again, didn’t need to research that issue once I determined that vinegar and baking soda was my solution, but could be worth verifying (or debunking) if you have tried everything else.

    4. Also, consider cleaning your dishwasher. Most dishwashers have some sort of removable net or filter at the bottom to collect crumbs etc. You can google the model number (usually found by the door hinges) to find a manual to find out how to clean those pieces. Be warned of and prepared for a disgusting experience especially with apartment dishwashers – I find it even more disgusting than removing hair clogs from drains.

      After you’ve cleaned those filter pieces, you may also want to unscrew the washing arms (the “propellers” on the top and/or bottom) and put them in vinegar over night to get rid of any hard water buildup inside those. Also wipe the inside of the dishwasher, door, and seals with vinegar.

      After you’re done with all of this, put a cup of vinegar on the top rack (or use a commercial dishwasher cleaner) and run your dishwasher on the hottest cycle.

      1. My fancy dishwasher gets much smellier than my rental dishwashers. One way they make top of the line dishwashers so quiet is that they remove the grinder/garbage disposal from the bottom of your dishwasher. So then you need to clean it out instead.

        This is super annoying and isn’t an overall dishwasher improvement. Next time I buy a dishwasher, it’ll be louder but have a grinder so I don’t need to clean it.

    5. Someone told me a year ago: “I stopped cleaning and nothing bad happened.” I don’t think that’s universally applicable but it’s true for a lot more than I would have thought. Stains on flat wear? You have this Internet stranger’s permission to do nothing about it and just keep living your life.

  6. Just looking for some commiseration and a reminder it will all be alright. I’m already majorly stressed today due to a major deadline (for the lawyers – objection to summary judgment) in one of my cases. It was referred by another lawyer who has stayed involved but just to review/critique everything but hasn’t been involved in the case enough to fully understand the facts or the law we are dealing with. That alone I was handling but still stressed enough my eye was twitching.

    I got a notice recently that one of my trials that had been scheduled for April has been indefinitely cancelled and I was thinking well thank God, we weren’t even ready for that yet. We still haven’t even done discovery on the defendant. Then I looked back at my structuring order and realized the discovery deadline passed in August. I recall us having some informal discussions about extending discovery because of trials being extended but we never formally agreed to anything. I can’t deal with it today because I have to finish this objection and it is just going to weigh on me. Realistically, I know today is no different than yesterday or tomorrow but it came to my attention while working on yet another case with the same opposing counsel against the same defendant.

    I suspect that even if the defendant objects the court will give us more time for discovery given that there is no trial date on the table but I just feel like an idiot. Realistically, this is the type of case where you don’t normally get anything useful out of the defendant anyway but I still need to try.

    I know that I am generally very competent and successful but even 10+ years in this kind of crap just takes the wind out of my sails.

    1. Courts have been VERY lax on discovery deadlines in my jurisdiction. I just had the court consider a plaintiff’s motion to serve discovery for the first time (ruling still pending, but argument held this week) in a case that was filed in Spring 2019 and where the discovery deadline was Summer 2020, where counsel never filed an extension or had discussions about more time being needed (I would have consented and worked to modify the scheduling order. These are crazy times. My objection was more that this case had been pending for 1.5 years at this point and summary judgment motion due next month). The judge originally considered flat out denying the motion, but without trials resuming any time soon in our area, said he would “table the issue for now” and issue his decision later. I tell this story to illustrate: 1) you are not alone and everyone drops the ball sometimes in a busy practice, but particularly with everything else going on right now, and 2) that it is entirely possible you will still be able to deal with outstanding discovery issues, but of course, you know your jurisdiction best.

      1. Yeah I got chastised a couple months ago about a discovery deadline. The other side had always known that a particular data source existed, it was specifically excluded from the joint discovery plan, we proceeded with discovery (with lots of extensions) for a year, then a month after the already-extended discovery deadline they demanded unfettered access to the entire data source. We opposed on several grounds, including their delay, and the judge smacked me down on the delay part – he said it’s a pandemic, extensions should be the rule not the exception, and implied that I wasn’t being cooperative enough with the other side. They still lost on other grounds fwiw but that comment stung.

    2. Commisseration! It will be ok, try not to be your worst critic.

      I’m working closely with a colleague who does all our appellate work on a brief I have due today. Monday he said “don’t worry, extension will absolutely be granted as a matter of course.” Yesterday “so sorry huge mistake-that’s not the rule in THIS department !” It’s going to be ok, everyone makes mistakes and I still respect and trust the guy. This will all work out.

      My goal at work is to recognize that everything is crazy, will likely always be chaotic, and give myself and others a ton of grace.

    3. I would not worry about the discovery deadlines too much, honestly. If the trial has already been continued indefinitely, the judge may not even care.

      In your shoes, I would file a motion to extend all the deadlines in the order by X months given that the trial is continued indefinitely. I would send a quick email to opposing counsel today asking if there is an objection in hopes that the motion could be a consent motion.

      1. I’m the first response to this, and that is how I would handle it. Generally, as long as deadlines I care about get extended along with discovery deadlines (ie: depositions & MSJ deadlines), I will consent to this type of motion. This will all work out. Also, when I am beating myself up about things like this, I try to think, “Will I still be upset about this next week? Next month? Next year?” Probably not because a million other things will have happened between now and then and something like this will ultimately not even be a blip on your career radar. It’s hard to keep perspective when you are already stressed, but it really will be okay.

    4. Thank you everyone! Also for anyone having a rough day and working from home, I took a break and took a much need shower and felt so much better after!

  7. Do any of you run or jog with your dog? I read not to run with a puppy but at 12 months you could try. On a leash he is OK but randomly wants to dart or sniff or poop/pee (I can tell which is which and would try to at least get him to pee before running). He has gotten a lot better in the past few months but prefers trails or quiet neighborhood streets with sidewalks to. Yay streets (cars whizzing by make him nervous and I don’t blame him). He has a lot of energy and I thought about trying to build in a block or two of a jog on his Usual leash held in my hand before attempting one of those running belt things.

    1. I have before, but DH does it regularly, so I take the dog for a walk instead. I got a waist leash a month or so ago, and maybe it’s because it’s elastic, but DH said the dog pulled much more and prefers the regular leash. It also takes her about a mile to settle down and realize this is not the time to smell EVERYTHING. Not much help on the proper age, although a vet could help. Overall, if you’re willing to do it, it’s great for my high-energy dog!

    2. Hi, I’m working on this!
      I live on a dirt road and my dog and I mostly just run up and down it, so I can’t help you with busy traffic, sorry, and we just use his normal leash for now so no advice about harnesses, etc, although I’m thinking about one too.
      Definitely have him pee before running, but some dogs just poop when they run, I think. Mine is a double-pooper normally, so I thought that he pooped while we were running because he’d only had time for one before we got going. Nope. Even if he poops twice he still has to go again after running a little ways. Other dog owners have said the same thing. Maybe it aids digestion, who knows. I’ve just accepted it.
      He was leash trained but definitely a darter before I introduced running. I say to him, “Let’s run!” and then I start running. He totally gets it now (we’ve been doing it, albeit not consistently, since July) and will absolutely take off when I say it. I think he’s probably about 80% in terms of doing nothing but running until I say “Let’s walk!” and slow down – sometimes he still finds things he needs to sniff and tries to veer off, but I just pull him back as gently as I can without stopping (which isn’t saying much as I am a tortoise) and say “No, let’s run!” again. I’m also trying to teach him “Whoa” for if we need to stop immediately.

    3. My dog is too old now, but a few years ago he ran with me. We aren’t sure of his age but he had to be around 2 or 3 when we started running together. He’s a mutt with some lab and some hound and probably some other things in there, very food motivated and very easily distracted. But he loved our morning runs. I lived in Chicago and we’d do a good 2-3 mile path each morning. We were up pretty early so it wouldn’t be as distracting as say, a midday run, but he wasn’t bothered by the cars or noises once we actually got going. I just held the leash extra tight and didn’t wear headphones so I could be extra vigilant to his mood, nothing else special. Running made a big difference to his attitude and behavior (and to mine too, to be honest).

      Now he’s old and cranky and gets tired after a few blocks and I still love him fiercely.

      1. I also used to run with my dog but he is too old know. I got a dog stroller that I push him when I run now. He loves to be out and it is much more exercise for me to push around his 80+ pounds!

    4. I did with a prior dog, who was also initially very wary of runners or cars approaching from behind. I found that a number of commands worked really well, including a command to move left away from my legs when he drifted too close, a command to turn left, and a command to turn right. All commands were initially taught using the leash. But even with those commands I still ran with leash in hand; I just think there are too many outside factors that can cause spooking, and I liked having the control if I needed it. I also never listened to anything when I ran, to remain 100% alert for both his safety and mine. He was a fantastic running companion, and it was great exercise for both of us. In terms of using the bathroom, I established set locations where he was allowed to stop, and he learned over time to keep running unless we reached one of those.

      1. I have a friend who trained her dog to only walk on her left precisely because they run together and it keeps the pup on the safe side! Heaven help you if you’re on the left of the hallway or stairs when he decides to walk with you haha

        1. I’m the anon that posted about teaching my dog running commands, and this was totally him, as well. If you even tried to walk with him on your right, he would put all his energy into getting back on the left. Miss that dog, he was once in a lifetime.

        2. I have always trained all my dogs to walk on the left because that is the safest place for them, it’s proper dog manners, and it makes it easier to teach them to heel if you decide to do that.

    5. I’m an experienced trail runner so I think that helps, but I get a dog used to running by running and NOT stopping for sniff/pee breaks, not getting a rise out of me if s/he moves out in front of me or something, etc. My focus is on her (anticipating her moves) and the trail/pavement immediately in front of us. I strongly prefer a leather leash to a nylon or something on my waist. 5 feet is perfect (4 is too short, 6 is too long) and leather has just a tiny bit of give that makes it more comfortable to me when running. Make sure the dog has relieved him/herself before you start. I set my pace based on her pace. Remember, a dog will work itself to death, so it’s up to you to ensure that you’re not going longer/faster than the dog can handle.

    6. Yes! My old dog was a husky and an absolutely fantastic running buddy–as long as it wasn’t too hot for safety, she did almost every run I did for the four years I had with her. Probably due to her breed, she was a great running buddy pretty much out of the gate, and was also generally bombproof for distractions, traffic, etc. She learned “right” and “left” as steering commands easily. She did need a few minutes to settle into my running pace, though–she always wanted to sprint at the start because she was so excited. Her longest run was 9 miles.

      Current dog……ehhh. My husband and I have both run with her to varying degrees. She’s a German shepherd mix who is temperamentally a lot more sniff-prone, and she got pretttttty good at not stopping or making sudden dives to sniff while on runs, but not 100%. She was really skittish about traffic when we got her, but after a year or so of exposure settled herself down and now doesn’t care at all (except for buses when it’s raining. she’s a stone cold weirdo.). She did learn the directional commands easily. With that said, she definitely isn’t a natural running buddy like the husky was, but for the first two-ish years we had her running was an essential energy outlet, and one of the few things that would reliably knock her out. But full disclosure, since she’s calmed down we don’t really take her out anymore–she just never really enjoyed it that much? Like she’d go because she wanted to be involved with what the people were doing, but she’ll drag herself along like you’re torturing her until we turn for home, and then it’s like a whole new excited happy dog who wants to pull your arm off. The longest runs she ever did were 5 miles.

      I’ve never used a running belt and just always looped the normal leash around my wrist. The husky never ran off-leash, the GSD has in very controlled circumstances at my in-laws, since they live on a low-traffic private road in the middle of nowhere (and only on the way back, since she’d probably turn for home within 5 minutes otherwise).

      1. You brought back a memory for me. My dad lived in northern Alaska among the natives for a year or so in the early 60s. He had pictures of all the husky type sled dogs doing their thing. I said I felt bad for the dogs. He said, no, those dogs are miserable sitting around and very excited when they get to run and pull the sled.

        He had some old movie reels of them, and they were certainly jumping around and barking excitedly when they were being harnessed to the sled.

        1. Yes, she loved to run and would super-pout if I went without her! IMO, it’s unkind to get a dog that was bred for a specific purpose, that also has the aptitude for it, and expect them to magically transform into a couch potato who’s happy with a walk around the block once or twice a day. She was absolutely fantastic, my soul dog and one-in-a-million baby girl, but she’d get obnoxious if she didn’t get enough exercise. Which, when she was in the 1-3 year range, was like 15-20 miles per week of running.

          I entertained a move to Michigan after grad school, and if I’d gone I was going to try her out with skijoring (where the dog pulls you on cross-country skis)–I think she would have had a blast. She had all the drive and work ethic in the world for that kind of thing.

          Current dog? Absolutely not, haha. Her raison d’etre is supervising the cul-de-sac from the couch.

    7. I think the age has something to do with it being hard on a puppy’s developing joints. So a light jog or a gradual build up of distance (starting short) would be fine, but I just wouldn’t start marathon training with the dog until it’s a bit older. I think once you’re in motion he’ll be less distracted but while you’re not running, it would be great to start working on “heel” so he stays focused on you.

      1. I could probably run a quarter mile, max, before walking. And not at a fast pace. There is no way I will outrun a large puppy. That said, short bursts would probably be good for both of us.

    8. I started run/walking with my dog before a year. The issue with running long distances with a puppy is that they don’t have the endurance a lot of the time and can get easily injured. My dog basically exclusively ran when she was a puppy– she would just run in circles at the dog park. So, any distance I was going was nothing in comparison to what I normally did. It is important to watch the dog for signs of being tired and not push them– so like, when my dog was younger, she sometimes would just sit down in the middle of a walk if it was too hot, etc. If she did that, we would just go home or switch to walking.

      My dog is a lot more focused while running than walking, but I think it depends on the dog. My SIL swear by the elastic waist leash, but with my dog, it was awful. She pulls a lot and would use the elastic to try to pull you along too, so you’d end up being hurtled forward going down a hill or something. I’ve never had an issue with a normal nylon leash. And yeah– most of this is something you are just going to have to work up to. My dog did best on greenways or sidewalks at first so maybe try that?

    9. I have a medium sized scent dog and we go for daily runs. In the beginning he would dive in to smell anything and everything but I just pulled him back in without stopping. I have a harness as to not put pressure on neck and throat when doing this, and I hold his leash with my hand. At the start, at halfway point and end of run he gets to sniff and poop as needed. He knows the drill now.

    10. No, because my dog is an idiot and decides he needs to very suddenly stop, or run around the opposite side of a street sign pole, which quickly and violently halts forward momentum.

  9. A financial question.
    I live in outer borough NYC, in a not-trendy neighborhood that I love — I grew up here, have family and life-long friends here, and don’t plan to move away. I would like to buy a home and the most reasonable option is a coop apartment — I grew up in one, friends own them, etc. For those unfamiliar, in a coop you pay your mortgage and also “maintenance” which covers property taxes and upkeep for the building, as well as paying the super and building staff. The part of the maintenance that covers taxes is tax deductible just like real estate taxes — it’s usually around 50%.

    I am currently paying $2,300 in rent, and my place is rent stabilized, which means the rent rises by the percentage determined by city counsel (it’ll be 0% in 2021, but it’s usually under 5%). A comparable apartment would have a monthly outlay of about $2,800, and about $400-500 of that a month would be tax deductible. I currently save between $1,000 to $2,000 a month in cash (after maxing out retirement accounts). I have enough saved for a downpayment and an emergency fund, and a little extra towards basic renovations (refinishing floors, painting, light fixture) that you often have to do when you buy. I can afford this in ever sense of the term. The prices in my neighborhood have been skyrocketing — they are up about 50% from when I first started working and saving in 2012 — but obviously it’s unclear what will happen next year. There’s no sign of an exodus here, as a lot of residents are lifelong and 2nd and 3rd generation New Yorkers.

    I cannot decide whether it’s a good idea to buy and start building up equity, or if it’s better to just keep saving cash. I really would like to own but my current place is great.

    1. When you say down payment, in co-ops that is usually much higher than a down payment for a condo. Like I’ve heard of 50% plus needing to show reserves. You want to buy in a building of fiscally robust other owners, which can make getting in hard. But if you won’t likely move, it would let you fix your housing cost in 2020 vs paying a lot more in 2030.

      1. Coops in my neighborhood require 20% down and 6 months of mortgage + maintenance in reserves — the crazy high numbers you hear about are mostly in Manhattan.

    2. What I would consider that you didn’t list us your monthly cost to own- mortgage, maintenance, insurance, and some savings for the unexpected. If that’s affordable go for it.

      1. In my hypo the mortgage + maintenance would be $2,800 a month, and at my current savings rate I would have $500-$1,500 a month cash to save or cover unexpected expenses. Insurance for a coop is only a little more than renters insurance — $50 a month instead of $20, since the building covers insurance for the structure with funds from maintenance.

    3. It sounds like (1) you can afford it (2) you love and are committed to the neighborhood and (3) you want to buy. Those are all very good reasons to buy your own place. You are still going to be paying for housing whether you rent or buy.

    4. I’m internally speculating on your ‘hood. Go look at coops. You can afford it and you want to be a homeowner. Once you find something that you like more than your current place you will feel more confident in this decision. If you don’t/can’t find something you like more you’ll feel better about staying.

      1. There’s really only a few that fit this description, so there’s a good chance you’re right! Just trying to not out myself too much, and also I’m very very happy for my neighborhood to continue flying under the radar!

    5. When your mortgage would be that close to your rent, absolutely buy. I did that 15+ years ago in SF and could never afford where I live today’s I had to buy now. The rent stabilized/controlled is worth considering if there’s a vast difference between your rent and mortgage. I would 100% buy now in your shoes.

    6. I’ll dissent a little in that you have a stabilized apartment you love in a neighborhood you love. My questions would be, can you make improvements you need? If the landlord makes improvements, your rent goes up in addition to normal increases (as I’m sure you know). I had a very cheap stabilized apartment in the outer boroughs I loved, but it was very run down because no improvements had been made in a long time. It wasn’t a forever home for my family, so I was just happy to have a cheap rent. But don’t discount the advantage of stabilization.

      1. I bought a coop in Park Slope under somewhat similar circumstances ~10 years ago (although bought a studio so did have to trade up recently anyway).

        If it’s about getting a return on your money, I would say likely better to rent and keep the money you would’ve spent on downpayment in the stock market.

        But if it’s about really wanting a place that you can modify/feel like is yours, then I’d go for it.

        I was also in a rent-stabilized apartment, and if it is dumpy and rundown, that’s one thing, but if it’s nice and in a decent building…again I’d probably consider staying unless I could afford something much nicer (e.g., 2 bed coop vs 1 bed stabilized)

    7. Without knowing your financial situation in detail, I wouldn’t count on the tax deductibility of that maintenance. I own a co-op in Brooklyn, and since all SALT deductions are capped at 10k (meaning my state and city taxes) under the 2017 tax law, I can’t deduct any portion of my maintenance that would be attributable to real estate taxes. If you are looking at buying a co-op in NYC, I would assume you’re likely already over that 10k threshold for state and local taxes already.
      I would keep the rent stabilized place if you love it. I own because I wanted to buy my specific place (and my old place was rent stabilized), but the financial proposition isn’t always clear, and maintenance is a one-way ticket – it will always go up and often goes up more than the rent stabilization rates.

    8. A coop without a doorman or elevator will be cheaper on a monthly maintenance basis. A particular advantage of a coop over a condo is that it can be easier to join the coop board, where you would have a say in the timing of major maintenance expanses. Many coops do not require a high down payment coupled with high cash reserves, but you would likely find it helpful to work with a broker who has taken clients through the coop board approval process. It will certainly be helpful to secure pre-approval for a mortgage as you are looking. Coops can be a great idea! Good luck with the search! Persistence over months certainly pays off in this area.

    9. You sound like you have an ideal situation, because your current situation is good, but you can afford to buy. If I were you, I’d start looking for a co-op, but be super picky. You don’t have to hurry, and the only complicating factor would be the timing of your lease renewal. Get pre-approved for a mortgage, start going to showings, and take some time to think about what’s most important to you in a home.

      Rent stabilization is great, but a good apartment can become a bad apartment with an ownership change. My neighborhood in upper Manhattan has become a hot spot for real estate investment companies to buy up buildings, try to oust the RS tenants, do some crappy cosmetic “upgrades,” and try to flip the buildings. We no longer have a super on site – which is illegal, but hard to enforce – and have to keep filing heat complaints. I hope it doesn’t happen to you, but you should be aware of the risk if you stay in a rental.

      Also, dying to know: are you in the Bronx? Because that’s what I’m picturing.

      1. Not the Bronx! My neighborhood is not gentrifying (it’s always been middle class) so I don’t think those kind of flips are likely here, but what you describe has happened to friends and it really sucks!

    10. We were in a very similar situation and bought a coop and have no regrets. We did a larger renovation – about 60K I think, but a lot was DIY – and in 4 years it has increased in value several times that. We had to put a lot of the renovation on credit cards (it went waaaaay overbudget), but we paid them off before we owed any interest. Our calculus was the rent stabilized apartment was never going to get any nicer than it was, and we’d rather be building equity in a mortgage than paying rent. We knew from friends who had lived in the building much longer that whatever work the landlord did would be terrible quality–I swear the tile was grouted with toothpaste– and they weren’t going to do anything anyway. Having our own place where we could renovate the kitchen and pick out finishes we like, move walls, build a walk-in closet, add/change light fixtures–it is so, so nice. (Caveat that we are big DIYers and like this kind of stuff). The downside is it has totally raised my standards. (WE HAVE AN ICE MAKER NOW!)

      I think most untrendy outer borough NYC neighborhoods have only increased in value over the last 20 years, even during the last 2 downturns, so I think it is a safe investment. The fact that the Senate is likely to go Democrat also means NYC is now less likely to go bankrupt or something – it is going to make a real difference to the economic recovery here.

      If/when you buy, just make sure you use a good attorney to investigate the coop’s finances and history to make sure it is well managed and there isn’t a massive assessment looming. You can also do things like look at the history of building permits pulled for the property to get a sense of how strict they are about renovating (e.g., no permits had been issued in our building for 20 years, but people have clearly done work during that time). Also, our building only required 10% down; we ended up paying 15% to get the place since there was another bidder, but that still freed up more money to renovate.

  10. Paging the poster from yesterday who has an intense dental hygiene routine including using Elmex gel. Are you in the US and if yes, where do you buy it? The one seller on amazon seems questionable to me.

    1. I’m not that person, but in the US you can get high fluoride products from your dentist. They’re typically prescription only.

      1. I hate the flouride staining though. USA is really behind the curve on remineralization products.

        1. Are you using stannous fluoride? You should mention it to your dentist, there are other types that don’t stain. Stannous is I think better for gum issues (?) but I am not a dentist. :)

    2. I am the poster. I am based in Europe and the gel is available as OTC in pharmacies/e-pharmacies. The brand is owned by Colgate, so maybe they have similar formula under different name/brand name in the US. Let me investigate a bit, I might be able to find something similar and will report back here.

      1. So, I checked the product you saw online and can confirm this is the one I am using (1.25% fluoride concentration). It seems the seller is shipping goods intended for the Polish market, no comment. It also seems that this type of products (high-concentration fluoride gels) are sold exclusively through dental offices, so I would recommend to ask your dentist directly. We have different types of fluoride available in Europe vs US, so probably there isn’t a 1:1 replacement, but I am sure your dentist will be able to recommend a good option.

    3. I don’t use Elmex but have a prescription-only fluoride toothpaste that I use. Insurance doesn’t cover it. It’s $40/tube (smaller tube than normal toothpaste tubes) and I get it filled at CVS. I’d talk to your dentist.

  11. yesterday afternoon I received a call from the manager of our apartment building (it’s a rental building) that the tenant below us has been complaining for years (though this was the first time I ever received a call and we’ve only lived in the apartment for 2 years) about the pounding/vibration from our apartment. we have 2 year old twins, who sleep for 11-12 hours a night, nap for 1.5-2.5 hours a day, our nanny takes them outside for 2-4 hours a day, they probably spend 1 hour a day eating and 1 hour watching tv (so that is like 16.5-20.5 hours covered) we have a foam mat in the living room play area and their bedroom is carpeted. getting them not to run is hard – like yesterday i came home from work, and they ran to greet me at the door. we are in the midst of potty training, so sometimes they run to the bathroom. they just learned how to jump and i try to minimize that/make sure they do it on their foam or carpeted floor. i really want to be a good neighbor, but am not sure what else i can do, so if anyone has any ideas, i’m all ears.

    1. If he really has been complaining for two years then this is not about your toddlers learning to jump. That would include the time when they were infants. Some people are just very sensitive to the normal sound of footsteps on the floor above.

      1. Do you have a washer/dryer in the unit? We had this issue years ago and it turned out to be noise from our washer and dryer that we never heard. The building do some soundproofing to the laundry area and it solved the problem.

    2. It sounds like you are doing everything you can. Maybe keep the kids barefoot so the running is not as loud? Maybe adding runners/rugs in other high traffic parts of the apartment?

      One of the benefits of renting is the ability to leave if you don’t like your neighbors. If your neighbor doesn’t like living under kids (reasonable!), your neighbor can move. When I was living in apartments, I aimed for the top floor* because I don’t like hearing people walk above me.

      * I live in a place where many apartment buildings are only two floors. I’m not talking about getting a penthouse.

      1. I had someone try to come in my window once. After that, I really would never live on the ground floor if I could be higher.

      2. the kids are barefoot. i wonder if slippers would help, but when i tried them once the kids kept slipping. our building is only 5 floors and i learned the person below us is a male surgeon who lives alone in a 2 bedroom apartment, so he could definitely afford to live on the highest floor if he wanted to

        2. I have a 5 year old and a 6 year old and the battle of getting them to wear slippers all the time in their own home over any sort of medium or long term would not be a sustainable solution, and I would not waste my energy trying this. If that is the solution your neighbor needs, than he needs to move.

    3. Nothing. You’re not doing anything wrong. Don’t apologize. You’re living above a crank. If your landlord says anything else tell them you aren’t loud, you’re just living in thehome you pay for and there’s nothing you can do.

      1. This. I am sensitive to sounds and work from home since Feb’20. Yes, I do hear my neighbors but I am also a reasonable human being to understand that people actually live in their apartments – sometimes, they get carried by and crank up the volume on their favorite song, sometimes they do HIIT workouts and jump, sometimes, they have a party. That is all part of living in an apartment. If the noise is high or prolonged, I will let my neighbors know. It seems that this is not a you problem (if the neighbor has been complaining for years). Reply what poster said. To be fair, the neighbor can be hearing noise caused not by you and your family being loud and inconsiderate, but because of bad acoustics or badly-laid walls. But that is for the neighbor or landlord to fix (insulation).

        1. +1 to it might not be you. When we lived in an apartment, we complained about noise above us. It turned out, the apartment directly above us was empty. The noise was coming from the apartment next to the one directly above us.

    4. I would summarize in writing the steps that you have taken already in an email for your landlord and then leave it at that. I do think that people sometimes underestimate the noise that their kids make, but it sounds like you have put in a good faith effort to reduce it either way.

        1. Yup. The fact that the manager said the neighbor has been complaining for years is actually a gift. That is proof right there that it is nothing your kids are doing, and be sure to put that in writing in any communication. (“Per our conversation that the complaints have been happening for years… yadda yadda yadda”.)

          1. Yup. Sounds like the guy below you isn’t cut out for apartment life. He should be the one moving/accommodating. You see quite thoughtful, OP. I’d reply as Anon at 10:16am indicated so to have documentation and move on.

      2. I agree. It sounds like you are doing everything you can and the neighbor is extra sensitive. Not your problem.

      3. Agree with this advice. Hopefully the kids will learn not to run inside soon anyway. The only other thing you can do is a quick audit if there might be any other cause than the kids: Is my washer/dryer not settled, is someone using exercise equipment or doing home videos, does the furniture need pads under the legs, is any family member wearing clunky shoes? Otherwise, I don’t see anything else that’s “fixable” and the neighbor will just have to deal Just document the steps you’ve taken and move on with life.

        1. “kids will learn not to run inside soon” is not a thing IME. My kids are 9 and 5 and run ALL the time. (Luckily we are not above anyone). When my 5yo is napping I can still usually hear the 9yo running to the bathroom like elephants are chasing him.

    5. I have this same issue with my downstairs neighbor. They once called the doorman to complain about noise when my kid was watching TV for about 30 minutes and then got up and ran to the bathroom because she had to go — while she’s in there I get a call! They are just unreasonable. An elderly woman lives above me and I can hear almost every step she takes, I’m guessing because she wears shoes inside (when I’ve seen her around the building, she’s wearing orthopedic-type shoes so I’m guessing she needs them on all the time). I wouldn’t dream of complaining. It’s just a fact of apartment living.

    6. Did the landlord give you any idea about when or how often the noise is happening? The description of “pounding/vibration” seems like a building or mechanical problem, not a you problem.

      1. +1 on this being a building issue. Could be things like insufficient insulation, or possiby water pipes or ventilation ducts carrying sound overly well. It would probably be helpful to find out if the sounds really do come from your apartment, and that’s probably a job for the landlord…

        But in addition – running and jumping sounds are massively annoying if you need quiet. I have upstairs neighbours who stamp/trample their feet in excitement while sitting down to watch sports, video game wins and similar and it is horrible. Everybody’s stressed out currently, but adding a high stress job, working shifts and then “tap-tap-tap-tap” etc. right over your neighbour’s head – I might be a little miffed as well. It’s probably a good idea to meet the complaints from a place of

        One thing you might check – are your floors level? If any of your furniture is standing on non-level floor, and then get vibrations from your normal movements, there might be a lot more sound below that you’re not hearing.

        Vibrating sounds can also be from outside. I once had a big tv antenna pole thingy fastened to the wall outside my bedroom, and in wind that thing made a lot of noise that felt like it was inside because of the connection to the wall.

        1. Oops, that should have been “place of: ” … sympathy. It’s probably not about your kids or their behaviour at all, and probably not something you can do.

          1. Just commenting that I feel for the neighbor. Everyone is stressed right now, and it is very annoying to hear someone else’s noise pollution. I wouldn’t assume that it is your kids who are causing the problem. In my condo building, the insulation is so bad (basically non existent) that I can hear everything from my downdstairs neighbor. One of the most annoying noises is the sound of water when she flushes her toilet. This is probably a larger issue with the construction of the building and the lack of insulation that either the landlord can address or ignore.

  12. Chalk this up to “we’re in a pandemic and I’m desperately trying to control something in my life,” but my body image has been on a downward spiral over the past few months. Help? My attitude about my body has ebbed and flowed during my whole adult life, and I am at the bottom again. Some of the online resources have made me feel so much worse. (E.g., stories about women my size who had hated their bodies since their teen years and now that they’ve lost 20 lbs. and changed her lifestyle forever, and they are slim and perfect and feel soooo good). That is … not what I’m looking for. I am at a healthy weight for my size — on the higher end, but still within the BMI recommendations. The fact is that I’m tall-ish and just overall larger than many women, especially through the hips and thighs. I sometimes pass as smaller than I really am because I have long limbs and a smaller bust. As I get older, my natural pear shape is becoming more pronounced, a genetic gift from my dad’s side of the family. My overall habits are pretty darn good. I could always eat a bit better; however, I exercise five days a week and am really proud of my running endurance. All this to say: I don’t think weight loss is the answer here, at least not in a significant way. I’m just tired of feeling like there is something wrong with how I’m built.

    I keep hearing about body neutrality. Maybe I should give that a shot? Body positivity feels too fake cheerleader-y for my personality. I would just like to be able to try on pants without feeling bad about how I’m built. Even at my leanest, I still have the same basic shape, and it does not fit with the aesthetic of the era.

    1. Yes, definitely give body neutrality a shot. Body positivity didn’t work for me either and I prefer neutrality much more. It allows me to focus on what my body can do when I’m engaged in physical activity and also gives me more brain space to think about non-body subjects – which then makes me less self-absorbed. All around win.

    2. Are you trying to shift focus from your weight or your appearance generally?

      I could be way off here but I like to focus on non-body/weight aspects of my appearance. I never had or will have the perfect body. But if my hair is great, my clothes are chic and my eyeliner is on point? I feel great in my skin.

    3. Is there another type of exercise you could try that is more fun for you than running? I always feel best about my body when I have been doing exercise I really enjoy.

    4. Who do you follow on social media? There’s a lot of orthorexia posing as fitspo out there, especially at the beginning of the year when the whole world wants to see you join their special brand of fitness/nutrition bandwagon. If you find yourself feeling worse after scrolling your typical exercise feed, cut out those who make you feel like you aren’t doing enough.

      1. +1. There’s also a lot of “it’s not a diet, it’s a lifestyle/protocol/reset/challenge” when it’s definitely just a diet.

        1. Absolutely this. Any time you’re changing your eating with the intent to lose weight, you’re on a diet. It’s just become uncool to use that word. It’s so pernicious how diet influencers and companies have co-opted language and even hashtags that were intended specifically to steer people away from them. I’ll call out Noom by name.

          2. OP here, and I AM SO SICK OF NOOM ADS EVERYWHERE. I have blocked them on Facebook several times and they still keep popping up. I completely agree that Noom is just a diet, fancied up with wellness language.

      2. I am a runner, so I follow some other runners for inspiration and motivation. I am larger than your average, stereotypical female runner. If they’re tall, they are still rail-thin with muscles. It’s possible that seeing these images is making me feel worse about myself. :(

        1. Follow larger runners instead! Fatgirlrunning and Lauren Leavell are recommendations off the top of my head, and you can take suggestions from there. There are so, so many people in fitness and running who aren’t thin. It’s absurd to imagine people concern-trolling them about “health” (including doctors).

        2. Going to repeat my recommendation for Louise Green and BigFitGirl, then! Lots of runners who are nice and round and BEAUTIFUL.

    5. This may or may not be helpful, but I notice that my body image plummets when I don’t have enough going on in my life to really engage my mental energy. So for example, a slow period at work, or when I’m lacking a real goal that I’m working toward. my mind tends to then wander to how my inner thighs are flabby or whatever particular thing I’m unhappy about then. So maybe a fun goal may be helpful? And it doesn’t need to be fitness related, just anytihng that will take up mental energy that you have to strive for.

      for what it’s worth. I find that body positivity doesn’t help me because the focus of it is still on my body. better to just focus elsewhere entirely. it’s when I’m happiest.

      1. I think you’re onto something. In pandemic times, I’m less engaged with the world in general.

    6. “I’m just tired of feeling like there is something wrong with how I’m built.” This is a great place to start. It’s exhausting to always feel like something about our bodies needs to be fixed.

      Here are some other thoughts I find helpful:
      –My body can, and does, do so much for me. Maybe no on the demand that it also conform to an extremely narrow visual ideal.
      –The only alternative to aging is dying young. I should think about how to be my best [current age here], not how to somehow become 22 again.
      –Diet culture and fatphobia are vile. I’m not hyperbolizing when I say they are mysogynistic, racist, elitist, and more. Dropping out is glorious.
      –If I have a medical issue, my doctor and I can identify and address it. Weight in and of itself is not automatically a problem.
      –Actively looking for examples of beauty and vitality in women who are not young or thin. They’re everywhere, but we basically have to re-train our eyes to see them. I used to commute through a major transit hub, and it was a great place to spot non-thin, non-young women who looked fantasic, happy, and vivacious. Why wouldn’t I want to be one of them? You can do the equivalent on Instagram if you have it–follow people with a less conventional look.

      1. Your last paragraph actually hits on something important, I think. In pandemic times, who am I really seeing? I’m not people-watching in the same way I normally would. Even in the rare trip to the store, I am focused on getting what I need and getting out of there. Everyone’s faces are covered. That’s freeing at times, but it also means it’s easy to get inside my head (or insta feed, though I hope I’ve filtered out most of that nonsense).

    7. Chiming in to say I’ve also experienced frustration with how I’m built. Women in my family are either hourglasses or rectangles, and holy moly am I a rectangle.
      I seriously have to curtail my Instagram scrolling after the new year because the fitspo is unrelenting. As far as body neutrality goes, you could check out Bethany Meyers on Instagram and my wife liked The Body is Not an Apology by Sonya Renee Taylor.

    8. Joining BigFitGirl has done wonders for my body image. I do their lifting program, and the Facebook group, where everyone who looks just normal and not model-thin posts their sweaty selfies, is gold for me.

    9. Have you figured out yet what clothes fit you well, flatter your shape, and are comfortable for you?

      I have your shape and evolution. I’m still figuring it out, but realize I feel tons better when I simplified my wardrobe to staples that flatter me in cut/colors, and even better if I can get my act together and take care of my skin and hair. Grab something that flatters that great a$$ of yours, take advantage of your smaller chest and fit body from all your work-outs and show whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

      All of us are built differently. There is no perfect body and different clothes work on different people. The hard part if figuring out what works for you.

    10. One thing I enjoy is that I’ve always been an athlete and so most of my friends are athletes (even ones I met after college), but we have very different body types.

      Everyone is fit and probably 3/4 are visibly skinny but only one friend is very thin (and she has run the Boston Marathon!). Almost every friend has noticeable muscle. We have different body shapes and have commiserated about them with each other (I hate being a pear, but my “athletic build” friend tells me she’d love my curves). We don’t often workout together but will sign up and run a half marathon together or we’ll go play tennis together after work so it’s fun to do these athletic things together. A bunch of us also follow each other on Strava and it’s very cool to see each other’s workouts.

      I’ve got about 15 lbs to lose but it’s awesome to have a group of friends where fitness, not weight, is the focus.

    11. What has helped me most is identifying brands of jeans, suiting and evening wear that fit a pear shape. I only order from those brands or other brands recommended by pears, and I don’t end up feeling like I am not supposed to exist.

      1. Would you mind sharing some of these brands? I’d love to know what worked well for you.

    12. Hi, I don’t think this is the answer you were looking for but it helped me a lot. If you are within doctor’s recommendations and healthy maybe you just don’t like the way you look, even if you are healthy. There is nothing wrong with you, but there may be something wrong with your presentation and how you are dressing/grooming yourself. I was doing all the wrong things for my body type and felt that I couldn’t find a way to look good no matter how hard I tried.

      I shelled out the cash for a personal stylist, you may find a department store near you that has this service, some are even free with a certain purchase. This person can teach you how to create the optical illusions you want. Where should you place light colours or stripes or whatever. I studied this, thought I knew what I was doing and that my shape was just “unsalvageable” but the pro really found some outfits that highlight my face and balance my body.
      Seriously try it

      1. Or, to hack the personal shopping experience, you could always check out some episodes of that show “What Not To Wear”, maybe find a few episodes with people with your same body type. I think it’s on Amazon. I learned SO much about how to find flattering clothes for my body type from this show, and how to look for the right cuts, styles, colors, etc. I think their advice holds up, even all these years later!

    13. Have you thought about picking up a new hobby (and maybe one that you can improve over time)? It could be exercise related, though not necessarily. I recently started Power Zone training on Peloton and cannot believe how much I was in need of a non-work hobby with metrics that I can improve and measure over time (different than randomly working out). I found found that investing in the “action” has really helped me feel empowered and helps me focus mental energy I was losing on physical appearance. My pants do not fit any looser (yet), but I sure feel better when I try to pull them on.

  13. I’m starting a new job remotely at the end of the month. Any advice from those of you who have had to start a new job like this during the pandemic? I’m super excited but kind of at a loss for how to connect and meet people in this type of environment. Thanks so much!

    1. I started a new job remotely in October and it’s been great. The trick for me was joining a company with great infrastructure – they had a week-long virtual onboarding program that was super helpful to get oriented, and also assigned me a counselor senior to me and a buddy in my same position, both of whom were great about reaching out to me to see if I had any questions. If your new job doesn’t have infrastructure in place like this, you could ask for something similar to be set up. I also find that the video calls really do help. I have set up weekly calls with each of my bosses to check in and, while we do spend half of the call talking about substantive work, the other half has been spent getting to know each other. I also took the initiative to reach out to the people in my group for “coffees” – short 15 minute video calls just to say hello and get familiar. It’s definitely been a slower process than it would be if working together in person, but I find as time passes even just working together creates a relationship that grows over time. Good luck!

    2. I started my new job in March right after covid started. Depending on how big your team is, I would schedule one on one chats with all of your new coworkers. That was a more personalized way to get to know my coworkers and to let them get to know me. Some people only wanted to talk work with me, but a good majority shared their hobbies and background with me. Good luck!

    3. I did this over the Summer. I tried to “look my best” on camera – not Fox News level of hair and makeup, but tidy hair and enough makeup to look alive and not washed out. Brighter lipstick and heavier eyebrows than normal seemed key. I tried to avoid being anonymous by wearing something with a color, and keep the camera on during meetings so people could see me listening and notice me. I sent out invites for 15 minute “meet and greet” meetings with people on key teams, and those were all well received. Folks were friendly and appreciated my reaching out.

  14. Since March, are you spending the same amount, less, or more? Why do you think that is? Just curious :)

    1. DH just finished our annual budgeting. We spent $7k more on food in 2020 than 2019. We only get takeout once a week. This is likely primarily due to the fact that DH used to travel a lot for work, but hasn’t. Our 2 kids now actually eat food. We also used to travel to family for 4-5 weeks a year and honestly didn’t really pay for any food while there. Overall we spent a bit more in 2020 than 2019, mostly bc we gave our nanny a raise, though admittedly i was a bit surprised since we also didn’t travel at all.

    2. Looking at my credit card statements, which is where all my variable costs are, I’m spending about 20% less on average. No commuting costs and no lunches out are a big factor. I’m also not stopping at the grocery store or Target for “just one thing” and walking out with $50 worth of stuff anymore. Other spending declines have cancelled out, I think. For example, money we would normally spend on vacations went into items to make our house more comfortable; clothing spending has been about the same but it’s cozy clothes instead of work clothes.

    3. Less overall since we’re no longer spending $500 on public transit per month, we’re driving a lot less, we’re not traveling, and I had to temporarily pause my very expensive hobby (horseback riding). We spend a lot on food, but we always did since we prioritize local/organic/etc. We also get groceries delivered (high-risk) and tip at least $15 per order, which adds up. We have also given more money to charity than ever before, like thousands more, but I think the reduced public transit costs and travel costs still make us come out ahead.

    4. I just finished analyzing my 2020 budget! Overall less because normally travel takes a huge chunk and that obviously didn’t happen this year. However, compared to my projected budget based off 2019’s spending we overspent in groceries by $900 and alcohol by a whopping $1300.. Shopping was also up, eating out budget was down by about the same difference.
      Also, I got a big pay raise in March by switching jobs, so my mentality has been more lax on spending.

      1. This is where we end up too, although I haven’t done a formal analysis. Less spending on travel, experiences and dining out, but partially offset by monthly donations for foodbank and independent journalism.

    5. Setting aside taxes and my student loan payments, I spent ~$8,000 less in 2020 than I did in 2019. At least half of this is due to not traveling at all last year (including savings from not taking public transit or cabs and Ubers). Our household also spent significantly less on food because we haven’t been going to restaurants and haven’t even really been getting takeout or delivery, we’ve preferred to cook our own meals while working from home. I also had some unusually large medical expenses in 2019 – new glasses and contact lenses – that weren’t repeated in 2020. I shopped a little less for clothes and accessories and didn’t buy any shoes in 2020. I think those categories should pretty much account for all the savings!

    6. Way less.
      -Extremely limited clothes shopping and when I do shop, it’s for less expensive pieces like athleisure.
      -No personal services other than haircuts (those weekly $15 manis do add up, etc)
      -We replaced only some of our normal restaurant behavior with takeout, and when we *do* get takeout, it’s more like $50 plus tip to the driver because we’ll each just get an entree and have wine from home (vs. the easily $100+ we’d drop eating at the restaurant).
      -Our main hobby is traveling and with it comes a healthy travel budget (probably $20K per year)… yeah no.

      Groceries and alcohol for home are higher than before… but a drop in the bucket compared to the other savings.

    7. It’s a wash for me. Yes, I’ve spent much less money on travel, gas and parking, events with friends, haircuts, dry cleaning, lunches, etc. But I’ve doubled my charitable contributions, been trying to support local restaurants and bars at least three times a week (doing curbside and tipping 30%-50%) so they have a hope of surviving the pandemic, shifted from buying gifts on Amazon to more expensive local boutiques and markets, and have spent way more on groceries because my partner (we live together but keep our finances separate) was furloughed for several months and so I started buying all the food for the household. One of the hard things about the past 9 months for me has been feeling so responsible financially for the fate of so many others, even if only in some small way.

    8. My retail therapy bill has been high. I spent way more in 2020 and am curbing that for 2021.

      1. Way less on gas, entertainment (none!), obviously no vacations, and no “aimless buying at Target / mall.” Did spend more on books (our library has been closed for much of the pandemic) and upped political and charitable donations considerably.

        1. We spent hundreds more on books than normal (we are very very heavy library users) but I feel totally OK about that because everything my kid isn’t reading any longer is going right to a favorite teacher who is at a charter school in a low income area who is SO grateful for new barely used books.

    9. Quite a bit more (+20% YoY), mainly because of (1) increased charitable donations and (2) buying a house -> mortgage. We also bought a car, which I didn’t include in the +20% because that’s an amortized expense, but it was partially a pandemic buy. We’d been car-free before, but losing out on safe public transit and safe public social events meant we really needed to be able to get to the mountains independently.

    10. More. My childcare costs more than doubled in 2020 – went back to work after second kid at the beginning of 2020 (that was obviously an anticipated cost), but then had to pay for full time child care for first kid when public school closed. Food costs increased – kids eating more and lunch no longer provided by school, plus we are relying on takeout and up-charged grocery delivery. Costs that went down (transit, kid activities, and travel) were basically replaced by largeish impulse pandemic purchases like many air purifiers and humidifiers, exercise bike, kid jungle gym, electric cargo bike (though that last one has been AMAAAAAAZING). Definitely some retail therapy going on here, although almost no clothes purchases for me. Also our charitable and political giving is WAY up. Some of our marginal cost increases are also obviously related to the second kid and not the pandemic- clothes, toys, gifts, etc. Interesting to think about as it feels like I have been in justify-purchases-because-in-survival-mode since March, which is not good.

      1. Which electric cargo bike did you buy? Any tips to share on things I should consider when comparing options?

    11. Substantially less for a while, moderately less now. At first it was becuase we literally did nothing but get groceries once per week. Once it became clear that this was going to be a longterm thing, we started spending more on things to do at home (more toys for kiddo, more fitness streaming) as well as some random purchases related to home projects. Also, we get take out once in a while now versus none at all for the first few months of the pandemic.

    12. Less.

      I used to buy breakfast most days on my way to work, lunch every day at work, and dinner most nights on the way home. Since I’m home all the time, I eat what’s in my fridge and get takeout usually fewer than 2x per week.

      I spend less on entertainment/going out to bars and parties, since I don’t go anywhere, and don’t travel at all (haven’t been outside the NY tri-state area since well before March).

      I also don’t have to pay for my MetroCard anymore, and although I take taxis exclusively now, I almost never go anywhere so they’re rare enough that I save money.

    13. On a month-to-month basis, I’ve spent more every month since March. I’ve been spending a lot of money to buy home entertainment things and to make my house more comfortable and pretty, which all adds up. On the other side, none of my expenses have really gone down; work paid my transit costs and I almost always brought my lunch to work so I wan’t spending money eating out.

      However, overall I’ve spent a little less in 2020 then in 2019 because I took a big once in a lifetime trip in 2019.

    14. Spending less. Partly because of circumstances with jobs – our paychecks are not as large – but also because we don’t go anywhere or do anything. We don’t even get much takeout food.

      Honestly, I’m sorry to do this to the restaurant industry, but eating out/ordering takeout or delivery on the regular is a budget killer.

    15. Less. No more $150 monthly transit fee for me. Our gym membership was on hold for a while so we saved $70 a month there too. My husband has gone to work throughout this time, so we haven’t saved any money on his commuting costs, and he gets the occasional meal or coffee out just as he always did. I never bought lunch out so I didn’t save any money there. We didn’t spend money on things like baseball games, happy hours, or ballet tickets at all so that saved several hundred as well. Our spending did not increase in other areas.

    16. Less. Not buying lunch out every day, not as many coffees out, living with my parents on and off where they don’t let me pay for groceries or anything despite my offers (which is very nice!) And honestly it might be even less in 2021 because I convinced my apartment manager to reduce my rent by $300 a month.

    17. It’s down, but not as much as you’d think because we had to swap our au pair for a sitter. But no work travel means no random non-work covered expenses (I would invariably pick up a souvenir in a new place, grab a small gift for my kiddo, buy a new book at the airport, have a glass of wine or two on my own time). I also cancelled my gym membership, my monthly massage appointment, cut back on haircuts (maybe every 4 months instead of every 2-3), bought WAY fewer work clothes, didn’t have to pay for dry cleaning, got almost no manicures/pedicures/blowouts. I’m also not commuting into an office so my commuting expenses/lunches out/etc. are all at zero. We also did more take out but that’s still a LOT cheaper than restaurant meals.
      So I guess, I almost all the ‘pink tax’ upkeep with being a professional working woman disappeared, which was nice! We also didn’t take any vacations but like many others we reinvested that money into our home and did some major upgrades of furniture/painting/etc. It’s definitely made me reconsider what I’ll add back into my life once things get back to normal – for one I desperately miss my boutique gym!

    18. I did way too much online shopping, for home goods mostly, this summer. I think it was due to anxiety more than anything else. That has thankfully calmed down and I’m really hoping to do a shopping ban or shopping ban-lite for the next couple of months.

  15. Good morning wise hive! I know there have been past threads about breast reductions so am hoping some readers here will be able to weigh in on this for me. I have naturally very large breasts (genetic – my mother has them too) despite a relatively small frame. I have hated them my whole life but the past year it seems to have come to a head. I feel as though they make me look so much larger than I am, I can’t wear the clothes that I want to wear and the clothes that I do wear never fits “right”. I also struggle to find any bra that fits them and is cute, I get lines in my shoulders every day from the weight, etc. I have booked a consultation with a surgeon to discuss a breast reduction, however, over the phone the surgeon advised that if I go through with the surgery, it will likely be difficult/impossible for me to breastfeed. I am 30 and single, so this seems a very far off concern, but I don’t want to make a decision that I later regret if I discover that breastfeeding is very important to me. I’ve also been reading that you can reduce breast size by losing weight, and I do have a few pounds to lose, so I am wondering if any well-endowed women here have had success reducing breast size with exercise? How important is breast feeding? If you could go back and get your breast reduction again, would you? A final concern is that because of my skin tone, I scar very easily and permanently. Are the scars from a breast reduction easy to hide (ie. on the bottom rather than the top)? TIA!

    1. Can’t comment on the rest of it, but the benefits of breastfeeding for women and babies living in high-income countries with safe water supplies have been very over-hyped. It can still be a wonderful thing to do and it’s certainly good for your baby from a nutrition perspective, but formula is a fabulous alternative and one I’m almost certain I’ll choose for my baby if I’m lucky enough to have one. It sounds like you have very good reasons for wanting to move forward with this surgery and I think that the benefits of that will likely result in greater quality of life than breastfeeding would (and that’s if you would even be able to breastfeed if you didn’t get the reduction – many women can’t).

      1. Fomula mama here. In my experience, biggest downside of not bre@stfeeding is, by far, the shaming from others. My kid is about as bright and healthy as kids get. My relationship with the women who said horrible things about me for giving him formula? One is over forever the other is tenuous at best. (Compounding this was that the woman who was most vocal about it is a relative of my husband’s; it caused our biggest marital rift to date and still has family ramifications.)

        I’d consider the circles you run in. New motherhood can be isolating and lonely and it’s no small thing to be rejected and shamed by those close to you during that time.

        1. Co-signing. I struggled to nurse and had to supplement. At daycare, you label pumped milk separately from formula and your failures are in the fridge for all to se and comment on. I was never so happy to work with 99% clueless guys after practically having to wear the scarlet letter by more productive women (you will also be judged for getting an epidural too).

          1. Really? I have never heard of anyone being judged for getting an epidural, but I have definitely been judged by everyone from the OB to the nurses to my family and friends for not getting one. And I am not a natural birth evangelist or anything, I just don’t like needles and had a quick labor so it was easier to say no than yes.

          2. Agree with Anon 11:16. I don’t many people that I opted not to have an epidural because the people I did tell acted like I was a hippie freak.

            Same with BF. I loved BF and I barely mention that to anyone because so many women just want to talk about how hard it was for them or how formula is basically the same thing anyway so why did I bother.

          3. In my experience both the elective c-section crowd and the natural birth crowd will judge you for formula. Heck, the same nurse who cheered me on and held my hand during labor made me cry when I asked for formula.

          4. I exclusively breastfed and my friends all thought I was crazy for not having had an epidural. I wanted one but my labor moved so fast that I couldn’t get one in time. I always feel like I have to include that disclaimer when it comes up so people don’t think I’m a hippie freak!

        2. I feel like people are confusing “you’re a crazy hippie” with the kinds of things that are actually said to moms who don’t bre@stfeed. It’s not the same as being told that you don’t love your child or are abusive to him, which is the kind of judgmentl I experienced. I’d still be friends with people who called me a “crazy hippie.”

    2. I have not had one myself, but have had many friends, acquaintances and roommates who have and every one of them has been thrilled. Their only complaint was that they waited as long as they did to do it. One roommate did have pretty heavy scarring, but she also didn’t follow the doctor’s post-op instructions well (that’s what she and her doc attributed the scarring to – not me armchair-diagnosing). Even with the scarring, she was happy with how much better she felt.

    3. I am waiting for my reduction (scheduled for mid-February) and while I was considering moving forward and while I am waiting, the women at r/reduction have been a great resource. I can’t address the breastfeeding issue (my oldest turns 22 today) directly, but I think you can find some good info on Reddit for this topic. There are also a lot of women who have shared post-op pictures that will help you see the range of scarring/healing. I really appreciate the ones who check in after 6 months (some of the one or two week post-op pics are a little scary).

    4. You and I have very similar bodies.

      I decided to wait for a reduction until I was done having kids. Pregnancy may change your size and shape, even if you don’t breastfeed. My chest is 3-4 cup sizes larger when I am pregnant. On the other side of three pregnancies and breastfeeding two kids, my chest is 2 cups bigger than before I was ever pregnant, with an entirely different shape. I wanted to get the reduction after all that was finished. I would hate to get the reduction, only to dislike the shape/size later. I also loved breastfeeding, and glad that I had that option. (I like the bonding, the weight loss and period suppression for me, not having to pay for formula). Now I am just waiting for the pandemic to end!

      Also, my (dark skinned) mother had a reduction decades ago. The scars are still visible, but I don’t think she or her romantic partners have ever cared. She says it was one of her best decisions. She also did not breastfeed me. I am very healthy and she and I are very close, so if you get a reduction buy formula and don’t worry about it!

      1. I liked the benefits of breastfeeding as well. It was easy to get a fussy kid to fall asleep (it’s a no-no but I did it all the time), made me feel good (hormones), and best of all I ate like a ravenous teenage boy and the pounds melted off. It was hard to give it up and go back to like, regular food and the metabolism of a late 30-s woman.
        On the other side of the pros-cons analysis, only you know how much you struggle with the large size b00bs and it’s fine if you decide that outweighs the pros on the other side.

    5. I would not let b-feeding concerns drive your decision. Is it a wonderful choice that you can make for your kid? Yes. Is it necessary to have a healthy, thriving kid? No. (Speaking as one of three formula-fed siblings who are independent, happy, healthy adults.)

    6. It sounds like we have similar body shapes. I seriously considered getting a reduction in recent years – I’m currently 32 – but ultimately decided against it for now because I hope to get pregnant within the next 3-5 years, and I worry that pregnancy shortly after the surgery could cause body shape changes that make me less satisfied with the results of the surgery. In my case, I think it’s unlikely insurance will cover the procedure (no back or neck pain), and I’m not sure paying for the surgery right now would be a good investment if I hope to be pregnant in the relatively near future. That’s pretty much the main reason I’ve decided against it for now

      If future breastfeeding were the only concern, I think I’d have been alright with going forward with the surgery: My siblings and I were formula fed and we were all bright, successful students in K-12 and were very healthy as children.

      1. Oh and I can also comment somewhat about my experience with moderate weight loss and bra size. Earlier on, when I hadn’t yet fully decided against getting a reduction for now, I spent a few months losing some weight. Due to some not-great lifestyle changes with work and a super-long commute throwing off my eating and sleeping schedule, I had edged into the very high end of a “normal” BMI, on the edge of an “overweight” BMI. I lost 10 lbs then (solidly in a “normal” BMI, albeit still on the higher end of that range – I’m a bit stocky in build with a thicker torso, so have never been in the lower half of “normal” BMI anytime in my adult life) and did not see any significant change in my bra size. I was wearing the same bras after, just maybe filled the cups a little less.

        Based on that and my past experiences with the effects of smaller weight fluctuations throughout my adult life, I don’t think weight loss will likely ever have a significant enough effect on my chest size to make me change my mind about eventually having a reduction. This might not be true for all bodies, but it is true for me! Admittedly, I’m not very rigorous about my working out, I do mostly moderate-intensity cardio and minimal strength training and I don’t really try to push myself. Maybe if I was more serious, particularly about strength-building exercises, my body composition and shape would change more?

    7. I went from an F cup to a C cup with weight loss. It can be possible if you are seriously motivated. Weight gain can also cause you to gain cup sizes after a reduction – happened to my friend’s sister who is pondering a second one.

      Having nursed a child I would say to definitely wait if it was on the near horizon (not necessarily for nursing options, being pregnant will also change your chest and they may get bigger again (I went back to an F or bigger, before going down to a D/DD )), but with it being a question mark I don’t know if it’s worth the wait. Nursing has its pros and cons, if you don’t feel strongly about it now then I wouldn’t let it drive your decision. Personally I’d be fine with formula feeding any future babies.

      1. OP here – what exercises/weight loss techniques did you use to get that result?

        1. Biking and pilates, I think, but I was also counting calories. I reduced my body fat % for sure. Apparently I tend to carry a lot of fat there.

    8. I had a reduction and lift at 18. With the support of a good lactation consultant and resources in the next sentence, I was able to partially breastfeed at 32. If you want specific information about that, look up the BFAR group and the book Defining your own success. Also, it’s the presence of breastmilk, not the absence of formula that gives the benefit (and those benefits are somewhat overplayed). That being said, if you think you will be having kids in the very near future, you might hold off until after that. My rib cage permanently expanded a band size with pregnancy and my cup size has crept up over the 20+ years since I had my surgery. Or, if you know that you tend to gain in your chest, perhaps go a little smaller than recommended to allow for any future changes. The impact of the lift is still there so that is positive. I have anchor scars that have faded substantially over the years- you can’t see them now.

    9. I have an elementary aged child. I exclusively breast fed her, until around 20 months. I pumped until she was 13 months. I have several friends who combo fed, exclusively pumped, and formula fed their kids. When our kids were babies we talked about this a lot — those who didn’t breastfeed fed guilty about it, those who were worried about supply and pumping affecting our careers. Now all of our worrying seems quite silly. All of our kids are smart and healthy, and they all prefer carbs and processed food. None of them are overweight. The one who scored highest on the G&T test of the group was combo fed (and also had test prep!).

      One friend had a breast reduction in her mid-20s, and when she had a baby in her mid-30s, found that she could breastfeed but wasn’t producing enough so she supplemented with formula. She said it was totally the best decision and would do it again in a heartbeat. Several of my friends who did not have breast reductions had the exact same issue.

    10. I’m also someone who has always had large breast. As someone who’s weight has fluctuated a lot, I can say that weight gain and loss does change the size of my beasts but that for me they stay the same proportional size to the rest of my body regardless of my size. So, at least in my experience, losing weight will probably decrease the size of your breasts, but it’s not like you only lose the weight from there. Mine are still big regardless of whether I am a size 4 or a size 12.

      I’ve considered getting a reduction, but have decided that for me personally I would want to wait until after I finish having kids. But it’s a completely personal choice, and some of that decision comes from the fact that I don’t normally have back pain and do overall generally like the way I look. If those things were not true, my decision may have been different.

    11. I can’t speak to breastfeeding, but I had a reduction at 17 and it was one of the best decisions of my life. My doctor wanted me to lose weight before the surgery to make sure my breasts didn’t get smaller and, despite losing 10 lbs, I jumped up a bra size during the same period of time. So while I can gain weight in my breasts (and have done so in the past 20 years), my breast tissue doesn’t reduce. Initially after the surgery I was a C cup, but due to the Freshman 15 and life, I’m now a large D. So if you’re worried about gaining weight because of pregnancy or otherwise, you could always go smaller than intended.

      As to the scars, they’re anchor shaped and along the bottom. They were only noticeable for about the first six months and then they faded pretty fast (I also scar easily). I’ve never had a romantic partner care, although I always point it out since I don’t have sensitive n i pples, and pointing out the surgery as the cause makes men feel less like it’s due to them.

    12. One of my former colleagues had the surgery and it changed her life.

      Pre-surgery, some of the frat boy types in the office referred to her behind her back as “Jugs.” (Yes they were pigs. Yes they still work there.)

      She was so happy to have the surgery for many reasons – one I hadn’t realized until she told me about it was how much physical pain she’d been in for years. Not to mention the emotional pain from things like the awful comments I mentioned above.

      I’d say do it now.

    13. I can’t speak to the breast feeding part, but I think I’m built similarly to you and can say that weight loss definitely doesn’t help that much. As I’ve gained and lost weight, my breast size has changed a little, but they’re always vastly disproportionate to my small frame. I’m short and small boned (though muscular) and currently only 125 lbs, but still a very full 36DDD. I wear a 6 on the bottom and a 12 on the top, making dresses almost impossible to find and blazers or anything else fitted look ridiculous, since they don’t actually fit in the shoulders or arms if they fit in the chest. I have constant neck pain. All of which is to say, I understand the appeal of a reduction and have thought about it myself on and off for years, though I’ve also waited partially because of the pregnancy/breast feeding issue. Don’t wait because you think you’ll be able to lose weight, though!

    14. Regarding reducing breast size with exercise. Changing the volume of your breasts with exercise itself sounds unlikely, but you can get more muscles to help carry your bust better, and change your band size. For breast volume I believe general weight loss (more than exercise itself) is the thing.

      How do you gain weight? I’m a very busty but slim hourglass, and gain weight at bust first, and then thighs and lastly general padding (including bust again). I loose weight first from the thighs, then general padding (thin layer of fat all over) and lastly, if ever, from the breast volume. Always in proportion, but the bust comes first and goes last, and I generally do not gain at the ribs, which means the bra band stays the same.

      I can loose a couple of cup sizes if I loose the other padding first. Currently I’m at a US 28K on a US 4 frame. The smallest cup size I’ve had the last 20 years is US 26G, which is about 6 cupsizes smaller. I would love my Gs back, but on my frame it would involve getting unhealthily skinny overall, so it’s not sustainable, but H would be doable. I have however also been higher at 28M and that was miserable, and I did loose that volume on purpose, steadily trough a year. If I had not been able to change that, I would have considered a reduction (and still do). I think that at my band size and frame I can maybe loose a cupsize every 5-8 pounds (and no change for band). With a higher band size the volume per cupsize is bigger, and if I have had any higher bust volume than now, I would consider a reduction as a serious investment in future life quality. My bust probably weighs a little above 5 pounds, but somebody with the same proportions in a 38K bra would carry closer to 10 pounds of weight in their breasts. That might sound like not a lot, but it’s a lot for the neck and shoulder to handle.

      There is a fabulous BBC documentary about three young women who have different journeys about their bust, it’s called “My big breasts and me” – highly recommended. I think it’s available on youtube. I think the experient done where two friends of one of the women get to wear her bras – filled with sugar in balloons to get them to capacity and weight – get to experience the pain and inconvenience, as well as the neverending staring, is very interesting.

      In terms of dressing for your bust – in case you haven’t tried them, you might like Bravissimo, or just UK brands in general. UK and Poland win the clothes for big busts game.

    15. I can’t speak from personal experience about the reduction surgery, but I can regarding breastfeeding. I intended to breastfeed both of my kids and had difficulties making it work both times. First kiddo latched improperly in a way that made things very painful and I couldn’t seem to get corrected. Second kiddo arrived six weeks early and had to bottle feed in the NICU, so he was already used to a bottle and nursing was a no-go. All of this is to say that you can have good intentions regarding breastfeeding, but so many things with birth and kids can go in a very different direction than what you had planned for reasons beyond your control.

      My college roommate had a reduction surgery and it was a total game changer for her. I would take the immediate benefits of the reduction over the risk of being unable to breastfeed.

  16. I used to wear foundation when needed and spackle any blemishes with concealer and dust with powder. Now the pores on my skin seem huge, my mask-acne is bad on one side, my roseacea seems worse, and I tried to put on makeup the other day and it caked in my pores and on my downy face hair and made me look even worse. What am I doing wrong? I will book a Sephora appointment for a coaching session and to get a good color match for what I need now. Ugh. I feel like a teen in all of the bad ways.

    1. Awww. I’m sorry.

      I like to apply a nice moisturizing primer (I like Mac strobe cream or benefit’s hangover coconut water one) then lightly stipple on a foundation with a brush. I bring my brush straightener down like I’m making little dots. Then I go over that with an illuminating power (hourglass) to kind of even it all out. You can still see my imperfections but the makeup is helping rather than hurting. I learned this at Sephora so help is on the way!

    2. I would suggest a dermatologist that also has a cosmetic practice to get the maskne and rosaecea under control. Once that is handled, everything else will go better.

      1. +1 to the dermatologist. I had treatment for rosacea in the fall (which I feel like was being made worse with wearing a mask) and my face looks so good now. Like I’m hardly even wearing makeup good.

          1. Laser treatment (with the Excel V laser) – I had three sessions, one month apart each. I am also on Soolantra, a cream I put on at night, so it’s been pretty low maintenance.

      2. +1

        For me, starting a retinoid was great for the pores and my acne. Then I fell in love with the Tinkle razors for my “mustache” and I even quickly shave my peach fuzz because I love the mild exfoliating effect and how it makes my skin feel after.

        Stay away from make-up counter advisors until your skincare regimen is set.

    4. I would address the skin issues with a derm or at least get a good skin regimen going if you don’t already have one. Applying an acid serum at night helps me with pores and acne. I also use a special razor to shave the downy face hair off, but I realize that’s probably too extra for most people.

    5. I have sensitive skin and I also have been struggling with the same irritation issues due to mask wearing at work. I went to my derm and got a script to get the maskne under control. I also started using a different moisturizer during the day (cetaphil) and a new face wash at night (panoxyl). I am already seeing an improvement. Def book a derm appointment. You have to address the skin issues before any make up will look good. Sephora will try to sell you expensive skin care that may actually make it worse.

    6. Treat your acne and rosacea. Agree with others to go to a derm.

      Also you can treat the downy hair now with a tinkle razor – it’s very easy and makes a huge difference.

    7. As a fellow roseacea sufferer – I don’t know what kind of rosacea you normally have, but your mask-acne could very well be rosacea pustules.

  17. Does anyone have experience with Manitoba Mukluks? They look like such warm cozy boots but I’ve never seen them in person. They’re a little spendier than I normally go for winter boots, but I think they would be worth it if they hold up well, and they’re having a good sale right now so I’m tempted!

    1. Following with interest.

      I love Mukluks in general, and love that Manitoba an indigenous owned company (even though I think a lot of the models are not made in Canada), but they are so very expensive that I have not dared to buy any with the customs charge where I live (add 36 per cent…) The Mukluks I like even better are not from an indigenous owned company, and I’m not comfortable supporting them.

      For me, Mukluks would be for very, very cold and dry days (negative Fahrenheit, -20 C and below) with no rain or slush. I think they would be too hot for a mild and snowless winter, and unsuitable for wet winter.

  18. Wise ladies–has anyone used a career coach/counselor? What led you there and was it worth it? Any recommendations (I’m in Chicago)? I’m spinning my wheels with my career and feel like I could use some guidance. TIA!

  19. I have an issue I want your advice on. I am all for people picking their pronouns, you do you! However I am now colleagues with someone who changes their pronouns seemingly weekly and lately they haven’t even been of any real language, mostly entirely made up words (I googled them). Am I being an ‘old’ for finding this annoying? Are my expectations unreasonable? I generally expect that people 1 use real words and 2 stick to the same pronouns for at least some substantial period of time. Often I genuinely can’t remember the non-word of the week.

    1. I wouldn’t play along with anyone changing them quickly. I’ll address that person as “you” like I would do for anyone else.

      Related, but I’ve seen several women recently starting to include them in their email names (not in their signatures – in the names. Like “Jane Smith she/hers.”) That seems wild to me. Does no one else worry about stereotype threat? I’ve spent a lot of time trying to make people see me as a person. Why would I build in even more reminders that people should perceive me as female, therefore implicitly lowering their expectations for me? I don’t begrudge others if they want to put “she/hers” in their signatures, but I’m never going to do it and I won’t say them out loud if asked either.

      1. The pronoun-in-signature thing is either inclusivity or woke-signaling, depending on whom you ask. I have never seen a cis straight man put pronouns in his signature line, but it is very trendy among the young white women with social science Ph.D.s with whom I work.

        1. Pronouns in the signature line is catching on in my office, including for the cis- straight men. My division entirely uses them because a colleague transitioned last year and it’s one small way we are supportive of her. Having to share your transition with judges and opposing counsel and clients in the middle of matters is not fun! She’s the only one who includes the pronouns after her name on Zoom, but that’s because we’re a big org and not everyone on the zoom necessarily knows about the transition, and it’s not always obvious from a small square. I’m glad it’s catching on. There’s an opposing counsel I’ve worked with for years who is a transgender, but his gender is not necessarily obvious at first glance, and I’ve seen many many judges struggle with knowing how to address him correctly. I’ve tried to subtly slip in a, “I agree/disagree with Mr. X” when I see this happening. The judges that are known to be tough on women are even tougher on him; it’s really terrible. Thankfully most of them are older and retiring.

          1. Did not mean to say “a” transgender — I edited the sentence and that somehow got left in! Whoops!

        2. I received an email from a ex- college football player friend this week, and he/him pronouns were part of his message. I am meh on including pronouns, but it was refreshing to see this.

      2. I don’t mind the email signatures at all, they’re helpful especially for ambiguous names. I just can’t remember to call someone “ry” or “muo”

        1. But what about in the email name like I posted about? I don’t care about it being in the signature, but it’s so weird to me to see “Jane Smith she/hers” in my email inbox as if it’s all one name.

          1. Oh wait – they have their email account set up so that the pronouns show in the address field, not in their signature block? I have never seen anyone do that and it seems excessive. Putting them in the signature block – fine.

          2. Yes, exactly. That’s how this woman’s name is listed in the address field. I noticed that a colleague she cc’d on the email had the same set-up, so I wonder if it’s organization-wide, but that’s the only time I’ve seen it where it was IN the email name and not just the signature.

          3. I’ve seen this a bit, and believe it’s a way to include pronouns on zoom, which can be valuable if you meet with external parties regularly. I’d say chalk it up to 2020/2021.

          4. That is out of the norm. I have never been able to alter my “From” name myself on any employer’s e-mail system, and there is always a very burdensome process to get it changed by an administrator. Like when I legally changed my name at marriage I had to give HR a copy of my marriage certificate to get it changed.

      3. it could be that they had pronouns further down in their signature but moved them up for more visibility, to normalize it. Another very good reason is that via email is how I get misgendered most often, if I’m corresponding with people that I don’t know and who don’t pay attention reading my name (clearly female but change a letter and it’s male). So adding she/her gives them another chance to correct their assumption.
        Regarding the stereotype threat, sure that’s a thing. But as a white woman with a boatload of privilege, I’m ok taking that on. YMMV, depending not only on yourself but what kind of work environment you are navigating.

      4. My firm (a V10) asked us all to put our pronouns in our signatures and on our firm bios last fall even if our pronouns were the more “expected” ones. Mine are in there now because of that

          1. Stereotype threat has to do with the person’s own perception and behavior, not others’ perceptions and behavior. So what you are asking is whether Anon in Dallas is concerned that her own behavior will conform to negative stereotypes about women because she sees her own pronouns in her own e-mail signature.

          2. Yes, that is correct, although there is also some evidence that people will perceive you differently when reminded of your sex or race. I am concerned about both.

          3. As a privileged white woman, I’m a lot less concerned about stereotype threat than listening to my trans and nonbinary friends, who have told me that normalizing pronoun usage is helpful for them.

      5. I see both men and women putting their pronouns various places (sigs, profiles on Slack/Twitter, bios for conferences, etc.), but I work in tech which might be less conservative than law?

        I do it myself as well – it’s a courtesy to people who may not immediately know how to refer to me based on just my name, and also normalizes doing it more generally so that fewer people who see it will feel like it’s odd (as you seem to). I don’t have any particular worries about reminding people that I’m female, since I’m generally the only woman in a meeting and stand out anyway.

    2. I don’t believe you. I think you are stirring the pot to cause a fight over transgender issues.

      1. Someone always comes here to say that on EVERY post on this subject. It’s tiring. In your review, are we NEVER allowed to discuss these issues that affect us in the workplace?

      2. Not stirring the pot, everything was totally cool when co-worker was they/them. Like I genuinely did not give a hoot when those were colleagues pronouns. I want to be respectful of colleague obviously but I also kind of expect colleague to compromise and pick real words in the English language.

    3. No, it’s ridiculous for many reasons and it’s fine to move on with your life. I refuse to indulge that level of self-absorption among people I only interact with professionally.

        1. Agree – people seem to think they need a special unique way to refer to them. It’s like um…how about your name?

          1. For many transgender people, their name is in flux. I am friends with a person figuring stuff out and they went from a female name to a male name to a gender neutral name.

    4. Obviously not. On the slight chance you aren’t just making this up for drama, just do your best and try to mostly refer to coworker by name even when it’s clunky.

      1. I feel like there is a next to zero chance that this is real post. Has someone told a colleague that they prefer they/their and then changed to something else a month later? Probably. Is it a thing where people are changing them weekly on a continuous basis? Yeah, no.

          1. This is why I don’t believe the claims that it’s a thing. You say you’ve seen it? From one co-worker or more? How often did they change? How did they provide an update on the change? A weekly pronoun email?

            Transition is not easy for people. A couple shifts in their preferred pronouns is not unexpected as they establish a new identity but it is ludicrous to suggest that weekly pronoun changes over multiple weeks by multiple people is a thing happening in many offices across the country. It’s not a thing.

    5. I was actually thinking about this the other day. I really struggle with “they” as a singular pronoun — it just grates on me as grammatically wrong. I wish we could all agree on a first person singular gender-neutral pronoun that could be used for people who prefer it and also when the gender of the person is irrelevant to the sentence (e.g. “if someone wants to buy a sofa, ze should consider…”). A second person plural would be nice, too, while we’re making a wishlist, so we could all stop beginning our posts with “ladies!”.

        1. I’m from New Jersey. “Youse” is often used to indicate second person singular; “youse guys” is the plural. [Guys is understood as being gender-fluid / gender-expansive in this context, possibly others.] It was weird to learn Spanish where “Yo” means “I” — no, it means “hola” and a bunch of other things, depending on tone (like Chinese, I guess; tonality matters).

      2. Strongly disagree – I think ‘they’ is perfect. It’s been in common use for years when one isn’t sure of the subject’s gender. We have ‘they’ – we don’t need new words.

        “I saw a huge pick-up truck at the mall today. The driver was so bad they almost caused an accident.” is something I would have said 20 years ago. ‘They’ is well established for usage where the gender is not identified as specifically male or female.

        1. I find that “they” as a singular pronoun often leads to indecipherable sentences in writing that requires precision. My employer’s official policy is to use “they” as a gender neutral, singular pronoun, so I use it, but I wish there were a gender neutral pronoun that is more clearly singular.

      4. But “they” has been used as a singular pronoun in English when gender is indefinite or irrelevant for longer than prescriptivist grammar rules have been a thing. This reaction is understandable given prescriptivism, but ultimately the only reason this is considered wrong is because some school teacher decided it should be wrong and started saying so.

      5. I use ‘they’ to mean one person and use the agreeing plural verb forms that sound right to my ear. Language evolves.

      6. I have totally gotten used to using they for this exact purpose. It really helped to shift my own thinking from making assumptions about the gender of a person that’s mentioned in conversation to always call them they if I don’t know the gender.

        1. FYI, a lot of people find that offensive because you’re making assumptions and/or misg*ndering them. Good intentions don’t matter when you are causing immense harm.

          1. That’s not a thing. Find me one example of a transgender person discussing being upset that someone who was not sure of their gender, used they. Obv. it’s offensive if someone has asked you specifically for other pronouns to be used but that’s not what anonshmanon is suggesting. If you don’t know the preferred pronouns or gender of the person, ‘they’ is totally fine and 100% grammatically correct.

          2. Cisgender people are sometimes annoyed (or confused) that they seem to be being gendered as non-binary. Maybe we don’t care, but it does happen. I think some people are really heavy handed though and seem to look for opportunities to use “they” vs. ways to avoid using a pronoun altogether.

          3. You can do your own research – I don’t have the mental strength to wade back into sad Tumblr world today. However, I think even you will acknowledge that someone who is desperately trying to pass as a woman could be truly heartbroken to get a “they.” It means that person didn’t pass.

          5. Anonymous at 12:50, check back for a link once my comment is approved. You can also Google and get results instantly.

          6. I’m not sure if you’ve misunderstood me or if it’s the other way around. Maybe an example will help. A friend will say “Oy, my boss said something super weird today”. I, not knowing their boss at all, making no assumption as to the boss’s gender, respond “Oh, what did they say?”. If I know the person, or it’s implied such as “My MOM said something weird today”, then I’d use the right pronoun, she in that case.

          7. yeah, I’m in mod, too. I think this is a misunderstanding. If people have preferred pronouns, I do my best to use them obviously. I was commenting on more generic use of they as a neutral form. Like Anon above said: if someone wants to buy a sofa, they should consider…

          9. Again, she is not referencing the use of ‘they’ when it is aimed at a transgender person to imply that they are not ‘womanly’ or ‘manly’ enough. That’s obviously horrible and not what it being suggested. It’s totally fine to use ‘they’ when you don’t know, haven’t been advised otherwise and there isn’t an opportunity to inquire. What’s the alternative word in that situation?

          10. Yes, I understand what you are saying. I am reporting to you that many people find it offensive to have “they” used when the person’s identity is unknown. You seem to think that I have misunderstood that point, but I have not.

          11. ok, I think then we might come down on different sides of a question of ‘you can’t please everyone’. If I read texts where the default gender is always he or men, I find that problematic. I think it’s damaging to assume men as the default for all kinds of things. This is a bigger problem still in other languages. I don’t mind turning this problem on it’s head, like Alison does on Ask a Manager. But I think that staying neutral until further information provided or until the person is participating in the conversation themselves, is another way to go.

            This is a different case than the slate article references(misgendering or avoiding-to-gender a specific, known person), but I think there are at least 4 anons in this side convo, so I think there are several points being made.

          12. I swear I am discussing in good faith here, just as a disclaimer. You seem to have not misunderstood me, so it means I am not quite understanding you. If you have more time or energy to discuss, it’s appreciated.

            When we stick to the completely anonymous/non specific example, “if someone wants to buy a sofa, they should consider…” I am not gendering or refusing to gender any one person in particular, I am talking about a hypothetical person. Who is it in this case, that gets offended by that? This is not about me not ‘allowing’ a transman or woman to pass, or labeling as nonbinary against their will. Is “if someone wants to buy a sofa, he or she should consider…” better? I am pretty sure nonbinary folk will not appreciate that.

          13. The indefinite “they” is a normal part of English and always has been. “If someone wants to buy a sofa, they should consider…” is fine. I’m seeing, “If Emily wants to buy a sofa, they should consider…” where all parties know Emily but don’t want to make any assumptions. But this could also sound as though Emily is non-binary and their pronoun is “they.” That’s where it becomes confusing. Is the writer misgendering Emily as non-binary or using “they” as an inclusive or noncommittal pronoun choice?

          14. ‘always has been’ is not a great indicator of what’s the best solution for all people, unfortunately.

    6. I’m happy to not refer to someone by the wrong pronouns. For example, I don’t want to call you “he” instead of “she.” I’ll call you “they” if you want. But to make up your own words or object to pronouns generally or change it daily? That’s not how pronouns work. I can’t imagine it helps transgender folks to make a game of this.

    7. If anyone wants a place to discuss these issues without being accused of starting “drama,” come on over to Ovarit! You’d be very welcome.

      1. Oh my. From a quick Google of Ovarit, I do not think I would feel welcome there, AT ALL.

        1. You might be surprised. I was. I read a couple of hit pieces slandering the site but found it to be a very different and positive experience when I did my own research and joined what I have found to be a very sharp, funny, and supportive community of mostly women.

    8. I agree with you that it’s annoying, but my advice is to ignore it and to not let it affect you. I’m sure that the silent majority of people think it’s ridiculous but there’s no need to ever be confrontational about this type of thing. That person is probably going through things that we can’t understand.

    9. This sounds like an Ask a Manager question. I’d be curious to know what the other pronouns are. Are they completely made up or something like Klingon or Elvish? Anyway I’d be irritated too. If this person is truly experimenting with his/her/their/hdhdv identity, it’s certainly not helping by confusing everybody around.

      1. Right? Ask a Manager seems to deal with this CONSTANTLY. It seems like quite a different crowd over there.

      2. Most I simply just rolled my eyes at but the one that broke the camel’s back so to speak was ‘muo’ pronounced moo, like the cow noise. I will admit I did not look into fantasy languages when I searched colleagues pronouns.

    10. Assuming this is a real post, I think I would just try to make a point of using the person’s name instead of pronouns to avoid needing to remember the current pronoun. It sounds like you are finding the impact of this annoying, and I don’t disagree, but I would personally try to think about how much difficulty this person is going through emotionally to result in such frequent pronoun shifts, recognize that this person is carrying a challenging burden, and try to shift your thoughts around this person so they come from a genuinely kind place.

    11. Eizabeth Alexandra Mary, officially Elizabeth II, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of her other realms and territories Queen, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith, (born April 21, 1926, London, England), queen of the United Kingdom of . . .

      Her pronoun is “we” and she also goes by “majesty”. I’m using those.

    1. I asked about this recently too, but didn’t get much input. I think for me, some of it is perimenoupausal. I have switched out to a more mild shampoo-ing schedule, and am taking the hair and nails vitamin from Costco. At some point, once I’m vaccinated, I need to get a new PCP and dermatologist (both of mine retired!) and see them for advice. I worry I waited to long though….

      1. Thank you so much! I was thinking the same about PCP and dermatologist. I appreciate it!

      2. Hi, I had posted awhile back about this issue in response to another question about it. I recently (about four months ago) noticed my hair had substantially thinned, diffusely (my hairline was intact but I’d lost a LOT of hair all over the top). It was most noticeable when I was under bright overhead lights. I switched immediately to Nioxin shampoo/conditioner and started using The Ordinary’s Hair Serum, but also scheduled a dermatologist visit. The derm looked at my scalp and took hair and scalp skin samples (didn’t hurt at all) and then sent me for bloodwork. She also told me that based on visual examination, my hair follicles were still active (they hadn’t quit growing hair) and so the loss was probably a combination of pandemic stress and also some genetics (my dad and his dad are/were bald as cue balls). She had me continue the Nioxin and told me to add a hair/skin/nails vitamin – she recommended Viviscal but I went with Country Life Maxi-Hair – until the bloodwork came back. She also told me 1. I need to wash my hair every day, regardless of what I read in magazines – sebum and yeast can build up on the scalp and cause irritation that causes hair loss, which is probably part of my issue, as I had gotten lax about washing my hair in the early days of quarantine. 2. No more sweatbands at the gym – they hold sweat to my scalp exactly where I most need hair to regrow, and sweat can also irritate the scalp. I need to at least rinse my hair after the gym if I don’t wash it.

        When the bloodwork came back, my thyroid was fine, which had been her main concern. She asked me to ask my PCP about a prescription for spironolactone, which I’ve been on before for acne (I do have PCOS, but have been on Metformin a long time and my free testosterone has been normal for many years). I’ve been back on the spirono for about a month, I kept up with the Nioxin and the Hair Serum and the vitamin, and I have fine hairs growing back in all over my scalp, which presents somewhat of a challenge with styling (but I’ll take it). I did have my hairstylist cut longer, layered bangs for me about three months ago, which helped a lot. My hair is normally shoulder-length, and when it was all one length, at the end of the day you could really see the hair loss as my hair flattened. The bangs keep the front of my hair less “weighty” and the loss is less obvious. My hairstylist did tell me (quite sternly) that my days of parting my hair in the middle are over unless I get substantial regrowth; I have to part on the side and blow dry the bangs to the left or the right. When I do that you would never know I have lost hair.

        I have gone through a lot of panic and anxiety over this but there are good pharmaceutical treatments for it. I will do Rogaine if I have to but hoping to put that off for awhile. I am 43 and likely will have more loss as I get older – my PCP said “sorry, this is mostly genetic, blame your dad” and there’s only so much he, or anyone, can do with medication to stop it. I don’t mind having thin hair but I do mind being bald to the point I need a topper, or a wig. So I’m going to focus on saving what I have left and styling it so that it works at the density it is now. Good luck and I am happy to answer more questions if people have them.

        1. Wow, thank you for your thorough, honest response. I appreciate it! I’m so sorry you’re going through this, and I hope you continue to figure the best path forward.
          I came to the realization that it might be the micro pill (birth control) I switched to a few months ago…but nonetheless it’s worth looking into just about everything you mentioned. I’m grateful for such a thoughtful response, and again, wish you the best. I was going to write, the stuff women have to go through…but I guess this is one thing not exactly unique to us!

          1. Thanks again – bought the ordinary and the country life, and shared this info with a friend as well. Really appreciate it!

        2. Wow – thank you so much for sharing your experience. It is extremely helpful.

          You mentioned spironolactone, which I also stopped taking during the pandemic because my script ran out and I didn’t think it was important enough to find a new doc during the pandemic. For me, lowering my T helped my acne and some of the less desirable body hair density. You are suggesting that a lower T would help my hair on my head and that didn’t occur to me, but now it makes sense….

          Thanks again. I wish you the best, and that your hair continues to grow…

Comments are closed.