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Updated: Oct 31, 2018 203 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Thermaskin Scoopneck Slip Dress

Coffee Break |

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Lands' End Thermaskin Scoopneck Slip Dress | CorporetteThis question came up in the comments on our post about the best tights and half-slips for work: Does one ever wear slips for warmth? The answer is normally no — they’re usually flimsy pieces of fabric that are best for adding opacity or helping with static cling (particularly with tights). But then I saw this lovely slip at Lands' End, made using their “high-performance fabric [that] not only retains your body’s heat but actually generates heat by absorbing body moisture.” Nice! Particularly since wool coats seem less buttoned up than in years past (such as this or this), this strikes me as a great way to bring your more summery jersey and ponte pieces into the coldest season. The slips are available in three colors and in sizes regular, petite, and plus, and are $24-$29. Lands' End Thermaskin Scoopneck Slip Dress (L-4)

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Comments

  1. Wildkitten

    Anyone know if the Amazon Kindle will be cheaper on Black Friday or Cyber Monday?

    • Veronica Mars

      I’d order it on Black Friday and if it goes cheaper, ask customer service for a price adjustment.

    • Anonymous

      Yup, they do price adjustments within 7 days of purchase. Buy it on Friday.

    • Anonymous

      they’re actually on sale right now- if they go cheaper between now and monday, you’d be able to ask for a price adjustment

    • Maddie Ross

      Unsolicited advice, but are you getting the kindle purely for reading (which I love) or the kindle fire for actual tablet usage? While I love my old simple kindle for reading, the kindle fire is pretty meh. I know it’s cheaper than an iPad or some of the other tablets out there, but we have one and it freezes constantly, loses Wi-Fi and has to be re-paired with our system (including re-entry of passwords), and shows us ads on the start screen (which drives me nuts – I paid $$ for the device and for the service to use on the device, WTF are you showing me ads?!). Just a word of caution.

      • Anonymous

        Re the ads: sometimes you get those on the e-ink Kindle too, if you bought the cheaper “special deals” enabled one. You can turn those off by paying $20 (at least on the e-ink you can) by going to the we and changing it in your account settings.

        • Maddie Ross

          What mostly irks me is that I bought the fire as part of the “kids package” (which I think just meant it came with a special protective cover), but the ads are always these ones for video games featuring half naked busty women and booze. So not that kid appropriate. Grrr.

  2. Veronica Mars

    I’ve decided to “Medium Chill” one of my toxic family members and I’m struggling to come up with mundane, innocuous conversation topics for Thanksgiving. (Medium chill is a technique of not telling them anything personal about yourself and being as level-headed and non reactionary as possible). This is my list so far: the weather, celebrities, how family member’s pet is doing, cleaning methods, personal care products (shampoo recs, etc), redecorating/furniture shopping, and the uptick in traffic. Any other ideas?

    • AnonInfinity

      If you like sports, that is always a good topic in my neck of the woods.

    • Spirograph

      Does anyone else watch Big Bang Theory? This is reminding me of Sheldon’s list of topics for his drive with Amy last week. “Have you acquired any new pets since last we spoke?

      Recent movies? Books? Of course, if your family member is the type that might answer “I just read [latest book by inflammatory political commentator] and here are all the hateful things it says!” maybe don’t do that.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        For the “inflammatory political commentator” I like taking the interested anthropologist approach. Sometimes it just isn’t appropriate to get into a debate but you just can’t shut the other person up. I basically feign interest (but not agreement) in what they have to say and ask a lot of non-accusatory questions. In reality, I probably haven’t had long conversations with someone of that viewpoint before so it is a learning experience (albeit disturbing) to hear what they have to say. I’ll try to give an example. Let’s pretend that wearing the color blue was a hot issue. (By they way, I seriously struggled to find something totally innocent for my example. Even this, blue can mean Crips, or police or ….)

        Aunt: No one should wear the color blue, ever.
        Me: Interesting, why do you believe that?
        Aunt: crazy racist rant.
        Me: Hmmm.
        How long have you held that belief?
        What initially led you to take interest in the color blue issue?
        Where do you get your information from on the color blue issue?
        Me: oh, I’ve never listened to that radio show/podcast/news station before. Does it have a large following?

        To end it: well, it was certainly interesting talking with you. I learned something new today. Thanks.

        • Lyssa

          This may not work if it’s already gotten to the inflammatory stage (or the relative in question is just a very inflammatory sort of person), but I’ve had good luck engaging with people who I disagreed with politically by discussing politics as a horserace, and deliberately avoiding any discussion of the substantive issues. For example, “Oh, I thought that what X did was very interesting; I’m curious to see how that plays out in Iowa . . . ” Basically, I substitute every substantive word related to value judgments or analysis with “interesting.”

          I’ve managed to engage in a lot of discussions with professional colleagues that way without ever feeling dishonest or letting on that I supported a completely different candidate than they did (in the sorts of circumstances where I didn’t want to advertise that).

          • Veronica Mars

            Luckily, this person is not inflammatory when it comes to politics (for the most part). I’m planning on brushing up on Trump and diverting to that if need be. “Isn’t it so crazy how Trump…” Although I do like your tip about “interesting.” I should use that more often.

    • Ellen

      Yay Kat! I also wear slip’s in the winter, primarily for LAYERING, but also to stop Frank from using his yardstick to see what color panties I am wearing. FOOEY! With a slip, when he trie’s to look, the yardstick does NOT let him get past my dress AND my slip. YAY!! The manageing partner warned him NOT to do that at work b/c the other attorney’s said it was harasseing and I agree. Beside’s, what difference does it make what color pantie’s I am wearing? FOOEY on Frank!

      Anyway, we have the SAME issue at our tabel at Thank’s giving. The conversation alway’s center’s on what Ed is selling at Merril Lynch to cleint’s and how Rosa’s kids are getting SO big. Rareley do they talk about ME or what I am doeing, except when Grandma Leyeh coments about how big my tuchus is getting. I alway’s have to remind her that I work 15 hour’s a day and do NOT have the time, like Rosa, to have a personal trainer get my body toned.

      Then they talk about when I am finally goieng to find a man and get MARRIED (even tho I am a professional), they say I should be married and that women my age with a tuchus often never find a man to MARRY them. This then goes on to a discussion about Grandma Trudy and how she come’s from Peasant Stock and how mom’s tuchus (and mine) is a result of to much GLUTTEN! DOUBEL FOOEY!!

      For once, I will steer the converstation to thing’s I am interested in, like Marie Claire Magazine and different way’s to find and date guy’s. Is there anyone else in the HIVE that face’s this same situeation? I hope not! YAY!!!!!

      • Rachel

        You tell Frank to stay away from your coochie. That is reserved for your boyfriend and he ain’t it.

    • Shopaholic

      Related question – I’ve tried to do this with one of my family members but she asks me really direct (and invasive) personal questions and I don’t really know how to get out of the situation without being rude while not giving her any personal info. Any suggestions?

      Being rude and direct is not really an option as she will create a fit and it would greatly upset my parents. If it were up to me only, I would cut her out completely but I try to maintain a cordial and civil relationship for my parents’ benefit.

        • CHJ

          This is my strategy too. Answer every question with a version of “not much, how about you?” Such as:

          “How’s your job?”
          – Good. How about you? How’s retirement?

          “Are you dating anyone?”
          – Not really. How’s your [partner]?

          “When are you going to have a baby?”
          – Not sure. How’s your [child]?

          “How’s your [invasive health question]?”
          – Good. How are you feeling these days?

      • Mpls

        “Oh, sorry – have to refill my drink/plate/dog dish” and then leave. Dodge whenever possible.

      • Meg Murry

        Can you guess what she will be asking (is it the typical kind of invasive questions about dating/boyfriends, kids, jobs, house, salary, how much you paid for X, Y and Z)? Or does she get really off the wall with questions no one would ever think of?

        Since you know they are coming, can you come up with one sentence answers, and then a way to deflect? Either a vague answer, or a totally off the wall answer if don’t mind being seen as “sassy and impermanent”?

        For instance:
        Nosy Aunt: So, any boyfriends?
        You: Nope, no boyfriends
        NA: Why not? You’re not getting any younger!
        You: Oh, I’ve decided to be single forever and get 27 cats. Speaking of, how’s Fluffy?

        Think of it like preparing for a job interview where you have to answer “where do you see yourself in 5 years” and “tell me about a time you failed” – except in this case you want to come up with very short questions, and then a redirect back to a question for the nosy person, preferably on a topic that you can stand listening to them talk about.

        • Veronica Mars

          That’s a good idea. I do know that they’ll be mining me for information about my job, my love life, etc. I’m tempted to just answer the love life questions with, “That’s up to God. I’m sure He’s working on it.” Actually that would be a good one for just about anything.

          • Wildkitten

            Yes! Just never give an answer that would give them an opportunity to ask again later. “When are you getting married?” say “NEVER” not “maybe eventually…”

      • Veronica Mars

        If you google Medium Chill, there are some good phrases for disengaging. My personal strategy is that I have a knee jerk reaction of saying “Oh [Joe], you’re so funny!” and then walking away whenever I’m shocked/uncomfortable, etc. It’s not the most graceful thing, but it works in pretty much all situations.

        • Anon

          That’s a bit like the (admittedly stereotypical) Southern woman strategy. “Bless your heart!” which kind of means STFU.

      • Blonde Lawyer

        Do you or the people you are with have a dog? Whenever my husband wants to escape a family conversation he will say “oh, the dog needs to go out. Don’t want an accident. So much going on here for her. Be right back!” Then when he gets back, he promptly starts a conversation with someone else closer to the door so it looks like he’s trying to make it back to the original person but can’t. It’s actually hysterical to watch.

        For the direct question though, could you just say “I’m really not comfortable discussing that.” If she is just a drama llama, you could indirectly feed it while shutting it down by saying “it’s just so hard to discuss” feigning sadness. (Ie, why your marriage failed or why you aren’t having kids or why you don’t have a boyfriend”) Gets the conversation over and drama llama gets to make up her own story. Then she can run around to everyone saying “don’t ask Janie about why she doesn’t have a boyfriend, she doesn’t want to talk about it.” Everyone else will think “duh” but drama llama gets to think she is saving you the heartbreak.

        • profmama

          This works with small children, too!

          OMG, it’s been hours since I changed her, better take care of that smelly diaper!
          Ooooh! He’s getting grouchy, I think I need to feed him.
          Oh, gosh, I have to get that toy/ breakable thing away from her…

    • Anonymous

      Huh, I’ve never heard that phrase before, but it’s basically exactly how I treat my parents. I talk only about things that will result in a positive conversation. I’ve been on Medium Chill mode my entire life.

  3. Batgirl

    Admittedly a nice problem to have — my husband and I are looking for nice babymoon ideas for mid-January that don’t (completely) break the bank. I’d like to venture no further than the Caribbean if we leave the country (because of how far along I’ll be) and we have about 5-7 days.

    Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      My parents loved the Sandals’ resort in St. Lucia. A cruise could be really nice, and would be pretty affordable since they leave out of Miami/Ft. Lauderdale, which is a domestic flight. I’m not the biggest cruise fan in general, but there’s no denying that they’re super relaxing, which would be perfect for a baby moon and if you go mid-January you should avoid both the school age kids and college spring breakers. Otherwise maybe just play around with Orbitz or a similar search engine to see what destinations are affordable, given your departure airport and dates.

    • Two Cents

      I have been all over the Caribbean and my favorite island by far is Aruba. It’s so beautiful and the water is always calm and bathtub temperature! We stay at the Grand Hyatt — just so pretty.

    • CHJ

      St. John is my favorite Caribbean island. Gorgeous beaches and 70% of the island is a national park, so it’s really beautiful everywhere. It’s a reasonably short and inexpensive flight from the East Coast or Midwest. And if you are a Starwoods member, the Westin there is great and is a good $/points redemption value. It doesn’t have the nightlife of some of the other islands, but I was never up for much nightlife when I was pregnant anyway!

    • StT

      Hubs and I flew direct from Charlotte to St Thomas over MLK long weekend and stayed in a condo on the east side of the island, away from the tourist spots. It was fantastic, but basic. We didn’t do much but drive around in the rented jeep, eat good food, snorkel & eat. And some more eating. We negotiated a price for less than $100/day for the condo, which was really nice (but basic)–1 bedroom/bathroom, living room & full kitchen. Linens provided, balcony with a decent view. It was not waterfront, but had a view of the ocean. The development’s private beach was just a quick walk away.

  4. RZ

    I actually do wear slips for an added layer of warmth in womens’ clothing. I also use silk scarves this way with more formal office wear — if they’re wrapped to cover the back of your neck, they prevent a lot of the cold gaps that leave me chilled in the winter.

    Actually, on a related question, does anyone have good suggestions for winter blouses/sleek tops to go under suits? I feel like none of my shells are warm enough, but it’s hard to find good/not bulky winter blouses or even fine knit sweaters that work under suits. I am quite busty, so that’s part of the challenge.
    All suggestions welcome!

    • AIMS

      No specific suggestions but look for silk long sleeve shirts. Silk is a magic fabric – makes me cooler in hot weather and warmer in cold. I agree with you on silk scarves – I tend to layer those too.

    • txatty

      I’ve been stocking up on bodysuits from Tuxe. Once I got past the horrible connotations of bodysuits (80s flashbacks), they actually fit my needs really well for suits – no worries about keeping it tucked in, sleek fitting, and well made.

    • Anonymous

      I wear a tight tank top underneath my regular stuff – Uniqlo heattech in a size smaller, so it’s skin tight, in a shade close to my skin color. I also have a “shaping tank” that is kind of like Spanx, but it’s really thick and warm and not so constricting.

    • trefoil

      Merino wool t-shirts! I wear them constantly under suits, especially for circuit court, with a wool or silk scarf and wool or silk long underwear and wool socks. Costco had a great version under their Segments brand last winter that didn’t have any logos or weird seaming so they didn’t *look* like athletic/thermal gear.

  5. Bigmac

    I finally found my wedding dress!! Any recommendations for a place to get reasonably priced alterations in the DC/Nova area? I am looking for some taking in/hemming, plus maybe adding sleeves or some sort of coverage up top. I bought the dress in TX, so having them done there is not an option. Thanks!

    • J

      I did my wedding dress alterations at Fashion Dream on Wilson Blvd in Clarendon. It was 5 years ago but I recall the price being pretty reasonable.

      • Anon

        Second Fashion Dream in Clarendon. I also took my wedding dress there and they did a great job.

        • Rachael

          And a third for Fashion Dream. I haven’t done a wedding dress there, but she has altered several evening and bridesmaid dresses, she’s really great.

    • TBK

      When I got married in 2010, every wedding board said to get alterations done by Angie. All I wound up needing was to have my bustle done, but I recall the price being very good. She works out of her home, so it’s a little trek to her house, but if you’re in NoVA it shouldn’t be far. Her email is acav5@verizon.net.

  6. National_Anthem

    I would like some encouragement/commiseration/something.

    I’m an associate in a small-sh firm in a small city. My current job is very interesting and I really enjoy the people I work with, but my employer systematically devalues my production and hours in a way that in the aggregate is incredibly demoralizing. I am not well paid, and it is not because the firm is not doing well – it is because the partnership views being an associate as an elaborate hazing process. They have incredibly high expectations for production and hours (which are made more ridiculous by things like telling me not to record any time spent on email correspondence, or billing me at a paralegal rate if I am working on a trial that a partner is working on, despite the fact that I am doing legal work as an attorney). I do not get a bonus for reaching and/ or exceeding these high expectations. I’ve talked with some of the partners about my concerns, and while some of them would love to make changes, the majority/controlling voting block is resistant to changes, and I just don’t think these aspects of my firm are going to get better.

    Because of this, I’ve been looking to leave. I recently interviewed for a government position in what seems like a great office. The position would pay more than I am currently making, and I would actually have vacation time. The managing partner of mu current firm told me today that the government office called him to check references, and indicated they were going to offer me a position.

    I know this hasn’t happened yet, so it’s a bit cart before horse, but when he told me about this conversation I just became sort of terrified about leaving my current firm. I think the government position would be much better for my mental well-being and financial well-being, but when actually (possibly) faced with the opportunity to leave, I’m suddenly conflicted (for no good reason, I think, aside from fear of the unknown). Can someone affirm that I would be doing the right thing by accepting this position? (or any other input).

    • Anonymous

      Well at this point, I think you basically have no choice to accept the new job because your current employer knows you’re looking. But it does sound like a very good move to me. More pay, more vacation, no hours expectations, seemingly a great office – all good.

      • NYNY

        If Shots. Shots. Shots. responds to your post, you must listen. Take the job! (And maybe a shot.)

    • TBK

      I don’t understand — why would you NOT take the job? I see zero downsides from what you’ve said.

    • MU JD

      As someone who went from a toxic small firm situation to government, my opinion is that you take the government job if offered and never look back. You can always make the transition back to the public world after you put in some time in government, but you need to get out of the environment that does not value your work. Good luck, I hope it all works out!

      • CKB

        As someone who left a small, toxic accounting firm to be an accountant for a publicly traded company a few years ago – TAKE THE JOB! I had no idea ahow low my self esteem had got until I got out of there and remembered that I AM a good accountant.

      • Ems

        thirded! I went from medium to biglaw nyc and I LOVE IT even though my hours are longer because people value my work/me!

    • ezt

      I had these exact feelings when I switched jobs fairly recently. I was in a really similar position – liked the work and some of my coworkers, my managers – although personally quite nice – were arbitrary and unfair, didn’t care about professional development or satisfaction of employees, and generally thought they were doing us a really huge favor by employing us, seemingly missing the part where we provided actual services for our pay. I actually accepted my offer without hesitation and THEN panicked. And to be honest the panic continued for a couple of weeks after I started the new job, as I repeatedly thought “what have I done?!” each time I learned something mildly annoying about my new office. But once I settled in a bit, I could not be happier, and feel really proud of myself for proactively removing myself from a job that was starting to make me unhappy without waiting around for it to get really toxic. This move sounds like a no-brainer. To quote Sheryl Sandberg Herself: what would you do if you weren’t afraid?

      • National_Anthem

        Yeah, this is completely applicable to my current work situation: “liked the work and some of my coworkers, my managers – although personally quite nice – were arbitrary and unfair, didn’t care about professional development or satisfaction of employees, and generally thought they were doing us a really huge favor by employing us, seemingly missing the part where we provided actual services for our pay.”

        I’m glad to hear that you got out of there, and that it’s working out so well!

    • Mpls

      That fear of the unknown (new) job is totally normal. You are making a change – a change for the better. You have identified the things you don’t like about your current position and have taken steps to change your situation for the better. Take the new job! Yes, there is no guarantee that it will be better, or that it won’t have it’s own problems, but the odds are that it WILL be better in at least some regard.

      The month or so it takes to transition jobs is almost always stressful (maybe that’s just worrier me…) – the stress of finishing out at a place (especially a small one), the stress of figuring out the new one, having to relearn how the office works. It’s uncomfortable for awhile, but that doesn’t mean it’s the wrong move.

    • CPA Lady

      Don’t mistake nostalgia/fear of change for regret.

      Your current job sounds really awful.

      • National_Anthem

        Thank you all – you’re right. There is no known downside to the new job, and the current job is unsustainable. I needed to have someone else affirm that. :) The hesitation is mostly just the fear of the unknown, now that the unknown is staring me in the face… and on some irrational level giving up on my current job feels like failure – for a while, I sort of thought that if I worked hard enough they would realize I’m worth investing in and change their ways, but that was kind of naive and unrealistic. I will charge ahead – thanks again for the input.

    • private to public

      As someone who was laid off from a no-upward-movement job in a different industry, and moved to a similar, but different job in government, TAKE THE GOVERNMENT JOB AND DON’T LOOK BACK. Ellen caps required.

      You will no longer have to go look for work, so to speak. At least in my industry, there’s no client, so there’s no billing, no billable hours, no utilization, nothing like that. Just do the job, get paid, take some vacation.

  7. Meg Murry

    Thinking of buying my husband a new suitcase for Christmas and need some recommendations. He only travels 2-3 times a year, so I don’t need anything super rugged, but I’m tired of our crap luggage that has broken parts after 2-3 uses. When he travels, he needs to take 3-5 suits, 5-7 button down shirts plus some slacks, and spare shoes I’m thinking a rolling garment bag, but I’m willing to be persuaded otherwise. It doesn’t need to be carry on sized, he prefers to pack loosely, pack regular sized toiletries and just check the bag rather than carry on.

    I’ve heard raves about Tumi but that’s probably not in the budget. Also heard good things about Costco but we don’t currently have a membership.

    Where else to look/buy? I’d prefer a brick and mortar store with reasonable return/exchange policy if he decides he wants something smaller or larger. I’m thinking budget is $150 to $300 (prefer $150 to $200) but let me know if that is way off.

    • Anonymous

      Do you have TJ Maxx or Marshalls near you? They have a ton of suitcases by names you’ll know. Paid $70 for a Samsonite carryon earlier this year.

    • Mpls

      Lands End. I’ve got a carryon size wheeled suitcase that only sees about 2-3 trips a year, but I’ve had it for at least 5 years and has survived several domestic (and at least 1 international) trip intact. Scuffed up, but still with all the zippers and buckles working. Bonus points for having colors other than black (at least they did when I bought).

    • Runner 5

      I’m a big fan of the surf brands for reasonably priced luggage. I’ve only got experience from the Quiksilver / Roxy stable myself and would recommend it every time. I’ve had the same big case since 2007 and it’s still looking good.

    • Anonymous

      LL Bean? We just bought some great duffles there and are planning on using them FOREVER.

    • kath

      FWIW, a friend told me that when she checked her Tumi luggage, she frequently found items stolen. When she went back to no-name luggage, it stopped.

    • AIMS

      Travelpro is a great band designer by a pilot or so goes the story and you will notice many professional fliers to use it. They have different price points, but you can definitely find something in your price range. I’ve also had good experience with Delsey.

      • anon a mouse

        Seconding (or thirding) the Travelpro love. If there’s a Macy’s near you, they run frequent sales.

    • Oh my

      I read your first line as, “Thinking of burying my husband in a suitcase for Christmas….” I clearly have issues.

    • Godzilla

      I love my American Tourist/er luggage. I treat that thing like cr@p. Survived many a trip taken by yours truly. I also recently picked up a Ricardo suitcase from TJMaxx/Marshalls – also very well made. Highly recommend both.

    • Anonymous

      I know it’s not brick and mortar, but check the Nordstrom Rack website regularly and ebags. I would search and buy something fancy, like Tumi or Victorinox. With those sites, and if you use eBates with ebags, you can get a very good discount.

    • Too momish?

      I’m looking for a good travel/sometimes work purse when I’m carrying my MacBook Air.

      Do you think the Kate looks too much like a babby bag? I like the Jane but I want something bigger and with a cross strap.

  9. Singledom

    I just need to vent. I’m already exhausted by the idea of yet another holiday season going by and being single. I’m the last unattached person in my family and I’m getting sick of the questions about having met anyone. No, I haven’t.

    I just turned 28 and I feel like being alone is where I’m doomed to end up. I would say I’m not a particularly pretty person but I’m outgoing, I like to travel, I SCUBA dive, I ski, I’m learning to fly, and I mostly have my s*it together and despite in-person and online attempts, I can’t meet anyone. I can’t even get an email back on Match.

    There are days when I really think I should’ve just settled for my ex and been miserable but married.

    • Anonymous

      Sorry. You are not doomed to be alone. I know it may feel this way because 28 is a popular age when people really start settling down and tying the knot but so many people fall in love and get married in their early-mid 30s or later, including lots of regular posters here. If the holiday season and questions from family members are getting you down, why not opt out of holiday festivities and go do something you enjoy, like travel or diving, with the time off work instead?
      And you really do not wish you had married your ex. It would just mean you would have been miserable throughout your late 20s and early 30s and then you’d inevitably get divorced and be in the same spot you’re in now, except a decade older and with a lot more “baggage.” Trust me, a few friends are in that situation now and it is not a good one.

    • Mpls

      Also single, and no – miserable and married wouldn’t solve anything. Because then the questions would be about kids.

      Can you preempt relationship conversations (maybe they don’t know what else to ask) by talking about your travel/hobbies, or asking your family about their stuff? Or find a go-to statement to respond to relationship inquires – “You know, I wish there was less focus on people’s relationships or lack there of. I’ve got lots of interesting things to say, just not on that topic so I’d rather not re-hash, thanks.”

    • Basically trash

      So you say you’re tired of fielding questions about whether you’ve met someone, but other than that, how do *you* feel about single? Do you feel like, despite having your stuff together and a wealth of hobbies and friends there’s still that one piece missing? Or do you feel relatively fulfilled but hate how people imply you’re incomplete without a significant other? For now, if people ask if you’re dating anyone, say no but immediately tell them about your latest trip or SCUBA adventure, and really rave about how amazing it was.

      Some people ask about your love life because they want you to have a wedding and make babies, but some people ask because they want you to be happy and seem to think that your happiness hinges on getting yourself a man; let them know that there are plenty of things in your life that are making you happy.

      • Another Anon

        I think some people ask because they can’t necessary relate to why someone would choose to be single and go off and travel or learn a new skill. I have some family members who ask me if I’ve met someone (and as a reference I’m almost 40…which means the questions have started to dry up) simply because they can’t grasp how someone can be happy on their own. That and society emphasizes that we should all be partnered up.

      • Ginjury

        This, so much this. Your life sounds so fulfilling and you should be proud of it! Basically trash has a really good script for you to use (Relative: Have you met anyone yet? You (cheerfully): Nope, but I did do X amazing thing recently). It’s a lot more interesting to hear about your latest SCUBA/travel adventure than the new romantic interest in your life.

      • Basically trash

        Followup thought, some family members ask you about your love life because they don’t know what else to ask about. in college they could ask you how school was going (good), how the food was (fine), how you liked your classes, and by the way what are you majoring in again?? Now they can ask you about your job, and that’s another thing you can shift the focus to if it’s going well, and they may figure your love life is a more fun topic to discuss.

      • Singledom

        Honestly, most days I don’t care about being single and my relationship status isn’t something that really crosses my mind because I really do feel fulfilled by my hobbies. I make myself happy, I like being able to spend my money on the things I like to do without needing a SO’s consent.

        I think part of what triggered this was an offhand comment that my mom made (a couple months ago, talk about holding on to something) when I joined a young professional’s networking group, and how she hoped I’d meet the man of my dreams through all my activities. I know in my heart that it wasn’t ill-meaning, and I didn’t think it impacted me in any way, but I guess it did.

        • Basically trash

          “without needing a SO’s consent”

          well, I’d like to think you wouldn’t need your SO’s consent to keep spending money on those hobbies, unless you lived together and shared finances.

          honestly, it would be awesome to meet the man of your dreams through your hobbies, and it may happen! you can tell her that her comment rubbed you the wrong way, and that while it would be awesome to meet someone doing what you love, it’s not the focus or the expectation, you’re perfectly content just doing the things!

        • NYNY

          Can you have a heartfelt talk with your mom about how her questions and comments affect you? If you can, then that may make a big difference in how the holidays feel. Let her know that it hurts you when she says things like “I hope you meet a man at the thing you just told me about that has nothing to do with dating.” If she’s sensitive, she may check herself in the future. And I’m guessing that your mom’s comments cut deeper than more distant relations. (If not, maybe check the “medium chill” thread earlier.)

          I was in very much the same place as you at 28, except less confident and accomplished. I met my now-DH when I turned 30, and we’ve been together 16 years. It will happen, and not when you expect it, so all you can do is live your life. Which you’re doing, so you’re awesome.

    • Anonymous

      I’m the same age, and I feel the same way. So, no answers, but commiseration. The guys left currently uncoupled just all seem so awful, it’s like all the pretty people got the good ones, and now I’m left with all the broken and messed up ones that have commitment issues, who like to lead people on, who like to ghost, and can’t just be a little bit considerate. I’m sure there are some decent guys left, but the pool doesn’t seem large.

      • Jen

        So much this. I was just having this conversation with a friend today–I’ve been on a billion dates in the last several years, and honestly I feel like the men who are “left” (not married or attached) are the Peter Pans, the commitment phobes, the guys who are otherwise catches but cannot seem to get their dating lives together to make plans, etc. It’s very frustrating, but we are not alone–my single girlfriends and I (all of us in late 20s or early/mid 30s are all having the same issue, regardless of all the efforts we make to meet good people.

        The holidays are the worst, but I echo others’ thoughts–the two christmases I spent miserable and with a long term ex were so much worse than the now-several christmases I have spent single and without prospects.

    • lsw

      Oh man, I felt this at age 28….hard. And yeah, I’ve seen enough people who did settle with the ex to know that you know that that was definitely a bullet dodged! But it’s hard. I broke up with a boyfriend of two years at age 30 and I definitely felt like I was putting a nail in my own coffin by doing so…I invested all that time, and I’m not getting any younger. Fast forward and I have ZERO regrets about it.

      I’m not going to say you’ll definitely find someone in your 30s, because no one can know that, but I will say that my 30s were SO. MUCH. BETTER. than my 20s in basically every way (my older friends all told me this, and I was like, “w/e”, but seriously – it turned out to be true!) so please don’t feel like your life is over. There is so much more once you get over the hump of turning 30.

      And YMMV, of course, but I just got married for the first time at age 35 and while it was SORT of weird, since many of my friends have been married for ten years at this point, it is also not that weird! Because it was the right time for me. And you have plenty of years left, my friend.

      Hang in there. In my experience, the holidays are the worst time for this. (Especially with well-meaning family asking you the dreaded question.) Can you do something special for yourself – plan a trip? Do something with a good pal? Otherwise, hang in there until after the holidays! *kitten on branch*

    • CountC

      After one really bad break up, and getting dumped out of the blue by the next two guys I dated, trust that I felt SUPER bummed about being single at 34/35 years old. I am so glad that I went through all of that and was able to grow into the person I am now because I can’t imagine having gotten married any earlier and being happy.

      You are not doomed to be alone even though it feels that way now. I can’t make any promises on how long it will be before you meet someone you enjoy, I can’t promise that you won’t be frustrated along the way, or that you won’t get your heart broken, but I can promise that you are not doomed to be alone. Your single life sounds pretty bad ass and amazing, so I echo the response above suggesting you redirect the questions about whether you have met someone to a discussion about the awesome things you are doing. It’s not a solution to being single, but hopefully it will help you think about all of the cool and fun things you are doing with your free time.

    • TBK

      At 28 you are by no means doomed (you’re not at any age, but 28 is still so young). I met my husband when I was 30. Sorry for people who’ve heard this before, but when I was almost exactly your age (I might have been 29) I decided to go see a therapist. I figured there were two possibilities: (1) I was doing everything right and just hadn’t met the right person or (2) there was something I was doing wrong and maybe therapy could help fix that. Worst case scenario it’s #1 and at least I’d know I’d done everything I could. But it was #2. Nothing major but enough misperceptions and skewed thinking to be entirely self-sabotaging. Got that under control (or at least became aware of it and made steps toward changing it) and voila, started dating my husband. And I am absolutely sure that if I’d met him pre-therapy, the whole thing would never have gone anywhere. So just my experience, but if that’s useful to you, there it is. I personally was very unhappy not being married. I had a great job, great friends, great hobbies, but also just felt that I would be happier if I were married (and I am). So not saying everyone single wants to be not-single, but it was something I myself wanted.

      • Dutchfan

        Do you mind elaborating on what you were doing that was dating-sabotage? I wonder that about myself…

        • TBK

          Mostly I just didn’t trust men. As weird as it sounds I kind of didn’t believe they had real feelings. My dad was never really part of my life, I have no brothers, my mom only has sisters, and my grandpa was kind of a jerk. He loved me and I loved him, but he suffered from anxiety and was almost certainly depressed and so was just angry and demanding all the time and often had inappropriate angry outbursts. I didn’t have any experiences with a male person who was warm and loving so I didn’t realize that was possible. But before therapy I didn’t even realize that I didn’t realize that. Also I had the idea that I had to be perfectly okay all the time — no bad feelings. It’s hard to get close to anyone if you never let your guard down or admit to feeling…anything.

      • profmama

        Gosh, me too!

        Thank goodness I had a few years of therapy under my belt before I met my husband. Otherwise, I would’ve done the same self-sabotaging things I did in my previous relationships, and we wouldn’t have lasted. (see: not trusting, keeping too many thoughts to myself, picking fights to prove he loved me, putting myself down to get compliments, etc.)

      • Former Miss Havisham

        OMG I could have written both this post and response. At 28, I spent Christmas with my younger sister’s fiance’s family and spent the entire time thinking about how pathetic the whole thing was, and mentally, I might as well have just moped around wearing a tattered wedding dress and one shoe.

        The next year, I finally decided to get some therapy related to mild anxiety and depression issues. One of the things I discovered in therapy is how much I repressed my feelings and shut other people out (keeping thoughts to myself, keeping fears to myself until they bubbled over in weird ways, not allowing myself to be vulnerable, ever…). I didn’t realize the extent to which I was doing this until working through a lot of it in therapy. After several months of therapy, I met my husband and we lived happily ever after (so far).

        I definitely relate to the OP in that I had a pretty great life overall, and usually I wasn’t one to worry too much about my singledom. But the holidays are tough, and you’ll make it tougher on yourself if you try to insist to yourself that you not be sad or a bit down. It’s okay to feel a little lonely even if your life is otherwise fabulous! You can still be a super independent, awesome person, and also wish that you had someone to share your life with.

    • single

      28?!?! You are a baby…. What do you think of those of us in our 40’s still single?!?

      All but one of my friends who married in their 20’s are divorced. All of my friends who married in their 30’s are married. Not a large sample size, but pretty big.

      Get your pat answer down for the holidays and quickly change the subject. Honestly, people are not as concerned about you as you think they are! They ask to be polite and as a conversation starter. It’s pretty normal. Just take a deep breath…. and move forward.

    • Atreyu

      Same age and situation. Mostly life is good but sometimes I wish Netflix and chill wasn’t so literal for me.

    • Edna Mazur

      Vent away but it sounds like you are a pretty awesome, interesting individual. Hopefully you can deflect when it comes up and treat yourself to something fun when its over or if it gets too much.

    • Senior Attorney

      Trust me, you have no idea just how bad “miserable but married” can be. Worse than a million single holidays.

      That said, single holidays are tough. I second the suggestion of planning something awesome for yourself to get you through the season.

      Also, +1,000,000 to therapy. Like TBK, I am certain that if I had met my lovely Gentleman Friend without the benefit of all those years with Dr. Shrink, it would have gone nowhere in a big fat hurry. That may not be true for you but it couldn’t hurt to check it out.

    • Godzilla

      GURL, YOU AWESOME. Find some children and hang out with them during the holidays. Adults have boring conversation anywayz.

      • X

        This is what I do. Love the kids. They’re so much more fun. I’m single, age 45, never been married and I don’t expect to be…

        Can’t wait for my nieces and nephews to show up!

        And, you’re right, it is awesome to be able to do what you want, accept weekend invitations, etc, without checking with someone else…

    • profmama

      You will not be alone forever!

      28 is your Saturn return. The thirties will be significantly different.

      I finally got away from my horrible, emotionally-abusive boyfriend at 28, moved into a new place, started a new job….but didn’t get married ’til north of 40, and it was worth waiting!

      For better Match responses, maybe a pro photo? Otherwise, do the fun stuff you like to do, invest in yourself, and eventually you will find someone who appreciates all that you have to offer.

    • Belle

      Nooo! Keep living your life, doing awesome and interesting things. Plus, match.com sucks. Half the people on there don’t even have active accounts. Try other stuff, especially free sites/apps, there are tons more users. I was in your boat at 28 and it did eventually work!

    • Commiseration

      Me too. Except I am turning 35 on Christmas Day. At which point at least half of my matches on online dating sites will disappear since they all filter for UNDER 35.

      • ugh....

        And these days, that means filtering out all men under 50….

        Sometimes, I’m glad I’m single.

        Most men are dogs!

  10. Spend more for shorter commute?

    Hi hive – your advice is appreciated.

    I currently live in South Bay but I work in MTV. Commute is 32 miles / day or 1.5-2 hours of driving / day. I can also take the Caltrain but it’s not the most convenient, and only saves the headache of traffic, not actual time.

    My current rent is $1,400 in a GREAT little studio that I love with a responsive landlord, no shared walls, etc. I am considering a similar-ish apartment for $1,900 in MTV that would eliminate the need to drive and reduce my commute to 40 minutes / day on a free company shuttle.

    Should I do it?? I’ll need to pay double rent, and plus the rent increase it’ll be an extra $8000 in rent for CY 2016. However, I’d gain approximately 250-280 “extra” hours or 10 24-hour days and I’d save on $3,000 on commute expenses (assuming 40 cents per mile).

    Is being $5,000 poor worth being 250 hours “richer”? Or, would I pay $20/hour to myself for that marginal extra time? $1,4000 = 23% of my net take-home pay after retirement and healthcare, and $1,900 is 32% which feels high, but I can afford it.

    Am I too nerdy with my calculations?

    • Runner 5

      If I were to move closer to work I’d want to move really close – like walking distance. 20 minutes bus each way is just long enough to be a drag.

      • Spend more for shorter commute?

        Unfortunately there’s nothing vaguely affordable within walking distance – I work in the definition of a SV “campus” in the middle of nowhere but is super pricey because, something rhymes with ooglers. >.<

      • Ginjury

        At first, I agreed with Runner 5, but then I realized I have a 15 minute walk to work so a 20 min bus ride would be a pretty negligible difference, especially since you don’t have to worry about crazy winter transit delays.

        I think the move sounds like a good idea, assuming you really can afford it without compromising your savings too much and the area you’re moving to provides you with equal, if not better opportunities (grocery store, gym, cafe, whatever is important to you) than your current neighborhood.

    • Batgirl

      Honestly, I think the calculations are only meaningful if you can answer the first question of “can I afford this?” with a resounding “yes.” It’s great to have all of those perks, but if you’re broke and can’t afford to fund your savings, retirement, other priorities, etc., then you may very well wish you’d stayed in the apartment down the road.

    • Spirograph

      If you can afford to, do it. My commute is often 2+ hours of driving per day. I would take a $5k net cut in a heartbeat for a 20 minute commute, especially a commute that didn’t involve me driving. My life was so much better when I walked to public transportation instead of driving to work.

      I love your nerdy calculations. Although my choice is a little different, I look at my current salary as paying me for my work+commute time instead of basing it on a 40 hour week. That gives the pay cut I am willing to accept for a new job with a shorter commute (which I’m actively looking for). In your case, you essentially give yourself a “raise” in hourly wage if you move closer!

    • CHJ

      I just switched from a 60 minute drive to a 25 minute train ride, and it is so great. My commute is now spent zoning out while reading a good long news article instead of tapping the brakes in stop-and-go traffic. Totally worth the extra money.

        • Spend more for shorter commute?

          Double rent for month of December. I haven’t given notice at current apartment yet and the new apartment is available immediately.

          • Noner

            I think she probably can, but is planning for a worst-case scenario where she can’t find anyone.

    • Anonymous

      I’m kind of confused because if you work in MTV (Mountain View?) and are considering moving to Mountain View (ok, that’s logical), how would you still be commuting 40 minutes on a company shuttle? Is there any reason you have to be in the city of Mountain View? Sunnyvale and Santa Clara are cheaper because they do’nt have the name recognition and (I think) have worse school districts but might be a good option for you if you could fine something on the Mountain View side.
      Anyway, I hate commuting (especially in the bay area!) so $500 a month to significantly shorten my commute would definitely be worth it to me.

      • Spend more for shorter commute?

        There’s a shuttle that takes people from MTV Caltrain to office, which is 5 miles away. The shuttle takes ~20 minutes per way or 40 minutes per day.

        • Anonymous

          Why not just drive to campus? I imagine it’d be faster than the shuttle.

    • Susie

      I personally would move without a question. 30 miles and still south bay, so pretty much straight down south from MTV? No thank you, even without that horrid commute.

    • SF in House

      My perspective: I commuted to the southern end of the Peninsula from SF for >10 years. I now work a 10 minute drive/30 minute walk from home. It has increased my quality of life more than I could have ever imagined. Almost nothing would make me take another job with that commute.

    • California girl

      I’m assuming you have a Silicon Valley income, so you can afford this?

      If so…. absolutely move.

      I am very frugal, and nerdy like you. But time saved in this scenario is big big time. Do it. I would in a heartbeat.

      And then I would be frugal in other areas to make up for it. I might even consider moving to a 2 bedroom with a roommate to save money in the long run.

      And why take a shuttle? RIDE YOUR BIKE to work every day like every good Moutain View/Palo Alto/Sunnyvale techie is doing. It would probably shorten your commute, improve your mood, improve your general health and make you happier!

      • lost academic

        Not everyone CAN ride a bike…. my younger brother is devoted to mass transit and simply cannot ride a bike, it’s a physical issue (not a weight related one).

        • California girl

          I thought the purpose of the thread is to give the OP ideas about prioritizing her living vs. commuting situation.

          As someone who lives in this area, I am trying to give the OP ideas that may not have occurred to her.

    • padi

      I think it’s worth it to move. You are spending $35/day in commuting costs if you drive (assuming costs of $0.54 per mile), or $725.76 per month (assuming 21 working days per month)! That alone more than justifies the difference.

      It is so worth it to move closer to work. I moved from South San Jose to downtown this year and now walk to work. It was a big headache but life is so much easier! I am saving a ton of money on car costs. I never realized how expensive cars are until I was no longer paying for a daily commute.

      $1900 for a studio in Mtn View, near the train station? Wow. That’s a really great deal.

      • L in DC

        This was my thought as well. Aside from the time savings, you have to consider the serious cash savings. Driving 1.5-2 hours a day is really expensive in terms of gas and maintenance and needing to have a reliable car. Company shuttle = free!

    • Anon

      Hells yeah, do it! Mountain View is totally cute, and this is one of those rare instances where you can actually buy life for dollars. That opportunity doesn’t come around often.

    • Senior Attorney

      I would completely do it. When I changed jobs and cut my commute from 1.5 hrs/day to .5 hr/day it was completely life changing. Turns out that one little hour is so precious!

    • MJ

      I hear you on cr@ppy Peninsula commutes, and while I am not in the Bay Area any longer, all of my friends say that traffic has gotten so much worse in the past two years as hiring has skyrocketed. That said, please consider two things about this plan:

      1) Shuttles can be REALLY annoying. Having to leave work at scheduled times stresses me out. I have done the shuttle thing (and Caltrain) and it can be awful.

      2) I would consider carefully just exactly how close you are to the Caltrain. The CalTrain can be EXTREMELY loud and freight trains use those tracks overnight AND Caltrain runs from 5am-midnight most days. There are some screaming deals on apartments right on the tracks…be sure you’re not too close.

      I don’t understand why you can’t keep your car, drive yourself and have like a five minute commute, instead of a twenty-minute shuttle ride. That’s what I would do. Moving is so worth it though. 101 is evil. And I say that as a native Californian.

      Also, I am 100% sure you will not have to pay double rent. Just post your apt in Bay Area Rooms and Apartments FB group and someone will rent it in no time. It’s very difficult to find temporary housing in the Bay Area right now. Someone will surely want it.

      • padi

        Oh man, I remember living close to the tracks in RWC. The freight train came through every Sunday night at midnight and was probably 500 cars long because the track signals didn’t shut off until close to 1am.

        If she is at a campus that rhymes with ogle, the traffic is so bad that driving would save no time over the shuttle. The traffic in North/East Mtn View is gridlocked from 8:30 to 10:30am and finding parking on the campuses is pretty difficult after 10am. The shuttle is probably the easiest way to get in and out of that part of town during rush hour.

  11. Cdn lawyer

    I feel like this might have been asked recently but can’t find it. My daughter will be 6 months old in December. We have all of the baby gear we need right now but with Black Friday (now in Canada even though it’s not our thanksgiving!) I am thinking of doing some shopping for stuff we will need soon I.e. Baby gates. What other gear did you need in months 6-12? I have also already picked up our next stage car seat. Similarly, any Christmas gift ideas for this age range? Thanks!

    • Wildkitten

      Buy stuff you’ll need/want to get her anyway for Christmas. She isn’t old enough to know the difference.

    • JEB

      I’m probably too late. But here are my thoughts: high chair, push toy for learning how to walk, standing activity table, music toys, and books.

  12. anon

    I’d like the hive’s opinion on when you’d expect someone (family/close to you) to intervene in an unfortunate interaction. DH is white, and I am not. His family is also prone to racist rants and other such behavior that’s directly about the demographic group that I’m a part of. They don’t all do this, but when someone is ranting about how why X people are so terrible and I’m the only X person in the room, people just ignore it. DH ignores it too. This even happens when their vitriol is directed directly at me. DH says that no one wants to rock the boat and that’s important above all else. A couple of my friends (also white) agreed with this statement. I think a simple diversion of the conversation elsewhere would satisfy me; it’s not like someone needs to initiate a verbal smackdown with the offender. But even individuals who think this is bad just sort of ignore it. What would you expect in this scenario?

    • Anonymous

      I think your husband is racist. Rocking the boat more important than protecting his wife from racism directed at her in person? He’s an &$$ and you should leave him and take all his money.

      • anon

        oh he didn’t say that’s why HE didn’t. He said that’s what they think. He has all sorts of reason/excuses for why he hasn’t, although he does sometimes opt to remove both of us from the situation. We once walked out of a restaurant. I think he’s hesitant to do anything more confrontational than that, which makes me uneasy.,

        • Anonymous

          Oh, did he have some other non horrible reason why it’s better to let his wife suffer from racism than stand up for her?

          No right? BECAUSE THERE IS NO GOOD REASON

        • Bee

          Getting up and walking out is an appropriate (immediate) response. If something like that happened to someone I love, I don’t think I could hold my sh*t together enough to NOT scream at the offender (and maybe produce rage tears). Much better to quietly get up and walk away without the theatrics.

          BUT. That needs to be followed up as quickly as possible with a serious sit-down and a demand for an apology. It’s not clear if that’s ever happened. If it hasn’t, that’s a problem. If I were OP, I cannot fathom continuing to subject myself to that kind of treatment.

          • anon

            DH has sort of dragged his feet on any kind of sit down anything. He says he’s willing, but is reluctant to actually do it. I have advocated for it, but he’s also pushed that I should be the one driving the conversation. I don’t mind being a major part of it, but I shouldn’t have to corral people I don’t know very well and tell them that they’re being racist. I will if I have to, but it does make me feel unsupported by him.

          • L in DC

            Yeah, no, that is BS that you should be the one driving the conversation. They’re HIS relatives — HE is the one who should be driving the conversation. How does he think this is okay to make this your problem? Especially when you’ve already clearly put up with so much?

    • Anonymous

      I get not rocking the boat, but I’d be wanting to get off that boat and not get back on it. Or in small doses with dillution (i.e., large wedding reception where you can float away from the offenders). Not small cabin in the woods.

    • bridget

      Your husband should have your back. I’m sorry for you that he doesn’t.

      The next time that someone starts on this, just leave. Take the keys, walk out the door (calmly), and just leave. If DH has to get a taxi home, bfd.

      Sadly, sometimes it’s not enough to say it’s a problem; you have to act like it’s a problem.

    • CountC

      Woah. I would expect my husband to tell his racist relatives to go fly a kite and tell them that he loves me and supports me and that comments of this nature will not be tolerated. Your husband should always have your back and not wanting to rock the boat is not having your back, it’s caving to his family’s racism.

    • anon

      Sorry, to clarify, he thinks others don’t want to rock the boat. Not that he doesn’t want to. He said the reason he didn’t intervene in the past was that he wanted me to have agency in how I chose to handle the situation. I don’t find that very convincing. Like, I feel like there should be an instinct to defend someone you love when there’s an issue, but maybe I’m just seeing it my way.

      • TBK

        Have you said this to him? And has he agreed to change how he intervenes? Because I could see this viewpoint. But I also see yours. But now he’s said this, unless you have reasons to doubt that he loves you otherwise, you might just need to think about it as “this is what love looks like to him vs to me.” For example, in my family we’re very much sort of “hey, holler if you need us, but otherwise we’ll just all do our own thing.” In my husband’s family, you’re supposed to offer every possible kind of help under the sun, even if it’s not practical. And then generally most of the help you’ve offered gets turned down (whereas in my family, offering help means “I want to do this as a gift to you” and people will be hurt if you turn down the offer). So when we were first together, I didn’t always offer lots of help to my husband because I figured he’d tell me if he needed something. He thought I didn’t care about him. Meanwhile, he’d offer help, I’d accept and then he’d be resentful that I was accepting ALL his help. So we talked about it and now I know to offer lots of help, and he knows to ask when he needs something. Maybe it’s more about communication than not loving you?

        • anon

          Yes, I think it is more about communication and we have talked about it. He says he’ll do it differently in the future, but until I see it happen, I won’t feel totally secure. he has stood up to them a few times, but for me it felt like pulling teeth. And of course there was another “explanation” for that. I do believe that his heart is in the right place, but I just can’t be totally trusting until I see him do this on his own.

          • Anonymous

            I mean, why do you ever need to see people who actively direct racial hatred towards you. “Hey mom, last time wife was over you were hideously racist. So no, we are not coming for thanksgiving. Bye!”

          • anon

            Yeah. Now he’s on board with that, but until recently he thought he could manage the situation such that they would be tolerable for me, and maybe we could even grow to like each other and enjoy each other’s company if he could just get them to see me as a real person. Except he thought I should do it because if he intervened on my behalf then they would think it’s because I’m weak. I don’t know, this all sounds so messed up :(

          • TBK

            It doesn’t sound messed up. How long have you been married? It sounds like navigating in-laws, frankly. I mean, racism is not okay but if he’s never had to deal with it before (because it was never about him and now that you’re married, it is about him and about his family), he might still be feeling out the best way to do it. Also if he’s never really stood up to the family on anything, or if the racism is mainly coming from the older relatives and everyone always just defers to/ignores them, then it might be something he’s still figuring out. Would it help if the two of you sat down and had a pre-holiday strategy session? So you both hear what the other person is thinking/feeling and then you agree on a plan of action? That way if Uncle Jim starts in on people from your racial/ethnic group, you both know that the plan is that (1) your husband says “not cool, Jim” and then if Jim keeps going (2) you say “Jim, DH already told you that’s not cool” and then if he starts again or someone jumps in to defend him (3) you both say “hey, this isn’t going to work. We’ll see you at Christmas” and walk out the door and go get [food you both love] and eat it on the couch watching your favorite show.

      • Anonymous

        I think that’s not unfair- he may have thought your lack of response meant you would prefer not rocking the boat. But if that isn’t the case you should tell him.

        • anon

          Response to him or to the family? I have done both from the beginning. one of his excuses was “well you were doing fine handling it.” I clearly didn’t, because I got called stupid.

          • Anonymous

            Did you tell him “I want you to stand up for me?”

            Yes. I would do it without being asked. But when you saw he didn’t, you should have told him you wanted him to?

          • anon

            I did tell him. I just didn’t tell him in the moment because everyone was there. I told him the moment we were alone. The first time it happened. So every time it’s happened since then, there’s really been no excuse in my mind. I just can’t tell if I’m not seeing his point of view fairly.

          • Anonymous

            Your post was so unclear!

            Timeline:

            1. Horrible racist thing

            2. You speak up for yourself he says nothing

            3. You say “actually, I want you to speak up for me,”

            4. More racist stuff happens

            5. He says nothing

            6. He makes excuses

            7. You leave him.

          • Anonymous

            But now you’re adding the he is ok with not seeing them though.

            I honestly can’t tell if you’re upset he wasn’t perfect in the past or angry about current conduct

          • anon

            ^ honestly, I don’t know. I’d like to say I’m not angry that he wasn’t perfect in the past, but I’m still hurt by that. And hurt that it hasn’t changed. I also just don’t know what to think. Am I being unreasonable? Is he? I don’t know. I just know that I’m hurt. Ugh.

          • TBK

            Wait, there have been multiple times since where he hasn’t said anything? Is he generally non-confrontational– so when the waiter brings out the wrong entree he eats it anyway because he won’t ever speak up? Is he generally unwilling to ruffle feathers with his family? Is this a family trait that no one ever rocks the boat on anything? Or is he generally okay with speaking up but just is minimizing how big a deal this is to you? Because that last one would be really bad. (Assuming, of course, that the answer is not “he’s a racist who actually kind of agrees with his family members but married me anyway”.) Does he have your back in other situations? That is, is he just not getting how bad the racist comments feel to you? Or is he not interested in knowing? None of this is great, but some options are worse than others.

          • anon

            No, he’s generally more assertive. That bothers me. He’s not minimizing it though, like I can tell he’s not oblivious or insensitive to my situation. I just don’t know what the issue is! I’ve also seen him confront other people who are being racist towards someone else! I don’t really know what to think.

          • Anonymous

            I would try to focus on teaching him. Try to help him understand what exactly is offensive, what he can say to be assertive, and when to know that he needs to jump in and say something. Maybe you could have some sort of signal to him that things are crossing a line. Yes he should know anyway, but sometimes people hear something blatantly offensive and are so shocked by it that they struggle to process it or react.
            This is one of those instances where “white privilege” definitely applies – he has been privileged enough to not be exposed to this before. Depending on how many times this has come up, he may still not know how to act or still be in shock when it happens. He hasn’t had to stand up for himself in this kind of situation before, so he probably is trying to address how he would address other offensive things in the past (and that is insufficient for this).

      • anon

        That is total BS. It is his job to stand up for you because he is your husband and it is his family causing the problem. It is not your responsibility to stand up to his racist family on your own just because you are a member of the targeted group and he is not.

        • anon

          “That” being your husband’s desire to let you have “agency.” This is a long thread.

    • TBK

      Wait…what? Your in-laws are directly attacking you and your husband doesn’t want to rock the boat? And your white friends agreed? If the in-laws were saying generally racist things, then it would still be not-cool for your husband to just shrug and say whatever, but that at least is something where he might think “everyone knows Uncle Jim is a racist idiot and me saying something won’t change anything, so since we only see him like three hours out of every year, better to just ignore and deflect.” It would still be good for you to tell him later “hey, that ignoring the racist stuff is not cool with me. I need your backup, even with crazy Uncle Jim.” But not standing up for his wife when they’re directly attacking you? I don’t even have words.

      • Meara

        Yeah, as someone who is white, has a black BIL, and another racist family member…(a) your white friends suck and (b) your husband needs a big dose of learning, preferably not from you. Because no.

    • Anon

      I am also in an interracial relationship, where DH is white and I am not. My question to you is, was it like this before you got married? If so, did DH have your back then?

      For me, not only is DH white but also different religion. His family has made every attempt to me nice to me and even if they innocently start discussing subject re race or religion, he will speak up. The comments are not directed at me, but if I’m in the room he wants to make sure I’m comfortable. He loves me enough to make sure I’m not hurt. I’m not saying your DH doesn’t love you, but his not saying anything give them to right to continue saying hurtful things.

      You don’t deserve such treatment. I’ve been there with friends friend’s and its not pleasant.

    • Anon

      I was once married to a man who didn’t have my back. His mother didn’t like me and made all sorts of passive aggressive comments about me, the kind where she could say “I wasn’t talking about you. Don’t take everything so personally” but were ABSOLUTELY without a doubt directed at me.

      My husband did not back me up and is now my ex husband.

      I am posting this to tell you that it feels absolutely great to no longer have that husband.

      And it feels even greater to no longer have those in-laws!!

      Set yourself free.

    • Edna Mazur

      You are not being unreasonable. I think the oft spoken wisdom of the partner dealing with their own relatives is key here as well. They are his side of the family and he should make it clear, in no uncertain terms, that behavior of that sort is not acceptable and won’t be tolerated.

    • Blonde Lawyer

      I spend too much time here so I know you have posted about this before, several times. I know people here are quick to jump to therapy but I really think if you two are ever going to get over this past issue, you guys need it.

      What you are describing sounds really similar to what some of my LGBT friends have encountered. Basically, parents were anti-gay rights. Then they find out their adult kid is gay so they agree to start re-thinking their stance. Kid is happy parents are willing to “keep an open mind” even if it is all lip service, and they bring over their current SO. Parents still make derogatory comments but kid tells SO that they are trying so hard and making such big improvements and you and I will show them the error of their ways – let’s just stick it out! They’re family!

      There was a time in the not so distant past when we were all expected to suck it up and play nice with family but as a society we have really moved towards “don’t put yourself in an unsafe space.” From your prior posts, your husband wasn’t really hearing that your in-laws equaled unsafe space for you or he wanted you to just suck it up once or twice/year and you were deciding if you could do that. You have decided you can’t and he is now okay not seeing them. That’s a pretty big sacrifice.

      None of us can say whether your husband should have done more in the past. Even if he should have, you can’t change the past. It’s like an affair in that regard. If you will never ever get over it no matter how reasonable he was being or no matter how reasonable he is now then you have to move on. If you can forgive the past and focus on the future then you really have to do just that. Forgive him for his past mistakes.

      It’s perfectly reasonable for you to never want to see these people and it’s perfectly reasonable for your husband to still want to try to find a way to have a relationship with his parents. He might need therapy to figure out he can’t change his parents and how to move on. This is all super super tough.

      No one on the internet will be able to solve it for you unfortunately. I really think couple’s counseling is needed here and only because of all your old posts about it.

    • Godzilla

      Your husband needs to WOMAN UP and be a partner to you, which includes defending you. WTF even is this situation.

    • Shopping challenged

      Good heavens but your in-laws are rocking the boat mightily with this crap! Did you not know this was an issue before marrying? Do you have children? Please protect them from these peoples thoughts about little xs.
      It is certainly possible for someone to be racist and marry someone they consider inferior. I know quite a few people, men and women, who have done so, generally with someone from a different country.

      • anon

        We’ve been married about 8 years now, and my interaction with them before marrying was limited. I knew they didn’t have much exposure to “different kinds of people,” but I didn’t expect this at all. DH had led me to believe that they were very kind and caring, but he hadn’t seen them interact with not-white people before, so it was a surprise to him too. No kids. Honestly, this whole issue has made me less interested in kids. I don’t really want to bring others into this mess.

        I don’t think he believes what they say or finds me inferior, but I also think maybe I would never know. That’s a little upsetting.

        • Shopping challenged

          Your last paragraph explains the danger for small children, who are developing their self-identity. Even for adults who understand they are worth more, it can be hard. My heart goes out to you!
          Btw, do you read the Root? Funny post this week about what to do with awkward talk around the table.

        • Shopping challenged

          Btw, my son is half Y and half me. His father is not around. I would say that race is an issue for my mother, particularly during his first few years of life. I expect it will be again when he meets more Ys (I do what I can, but we live in a segregated country) and he learns to code switch. I have never gotten along with her, so he sees any issues as overspill, because he is a part of me. There is one stereotypical issue that I shut her down on hard a few years ago, and she has not tried again.

  13. lsw

    Do you think Madewell would adjust a price due to just going 25% off everything? I just made my first purchase ever there online a few days ago, and it was full price. I guess I should have waited for this weekend like every other thinking person.

    • L in DC

      Yeah, just ask for the price adjustment and tell them that you could just return the purchase and buy it again at the reduced price but you figure it would be a lot less hassle for everyone if they’d just adjust the price for you.

      • Anonymous

        +1. I have called and they have price adjusted there.

        I have also returned an open espresso machine to Williams Sonoma because they refused to price adjust a significant sale. I told them I’d rather not have to do that but they didn’t want to play ball.

  14. Girl fashion

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    Her favorite color is Magenta!

  15. Shopping challenged

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    • Traditionalist

      Try thesmallthingsblog[dot]com — she has a ton of tutorials that are all quite good. FWIW, she has shoulder-length hair so if yours is significantly longer than that, there may be better options.

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