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Coffee Break: The Lady’s Dress Overshoes

Commuting Overshoes: Hammacher Schlemmer The Lady's Dress OvershoesOK, these are totally not sexy at all — but one of the very first things I covered on this blog was a similar product, so for some reason I have a soft spot in my heart for what are, essentially, women's galoshes. The idea: If you're wearing fabulous shoes and it starts pouring, you may think, “GAH, I don't want to get my shoes wet!” So you pull these out of your bottom office drawer (where you can keep them, because they are much smaller and more collapsible than big Wellies) and put them on over your fabulous shoes — and off you go to whatever fun event you have that evening. These babies are on sale at Hammacher Schlemmer — they were $99 but are now $49. (There's a bunch of random stuff on sale, so poke around; while buying my husband a pillow I also got a cat toy for my MIL's cat and a mosquito net shirt for my hubs, each for $9.99.) Hammacher Schlemmer The Lady's Dress Overshoes Psst: if you're in more of a “classic pump” kind of mood, M.Gemi is having their twice-yearly private sale — pumps are down to $125; flats start at $75. (L-3)

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

209 Comments

  1. As a Christmas present to myself, I finally launched my fashion blog – yay! Check it out at theofficerblog dot com – I’m trying to focus on deciphering the mystery that is “business casual.” I’ve only got my own posts up at the moment (east coast attorney), but I’ve already got guests posts lined up from an east coast librarian and an east/west coast nonprofit person, so I’m hoping to show how much business casual can vary across the board. I’d LOVE to have some of y’all talented ladies from a wide variety of industry and life stages contribute (engineers, new moms, more senior folks), so please drop me a note if you’re interested!

    2. Congrats!

      Does anybody remember the name of the fashion blog partner in the DC area with really interesting clothes? She had the chicest bob!

    3. Following along! Looks great.

      Anyone else have any other fun business casual/professional fashion or lifestyle blogs to add to my feedly? Outside of the typical CapHillStyle, Franish, Memorandum, etc.

      1. Thanks! I have a “links to love” page on the blog that lists all the other blogs I follow, but it appears you already read most of them.

    4. Looks totally great. I love the Pinspiration posts. As another west-coast attorney, your style and level of formality is right up my alley.

  2. Hello wise hive — Has anyone made the switch from practicing law to working in more of an operations role for a company? I think my skill set is more suited toward the latter. I’m currently a fourth year BigLaw litigation/regulatory associate in the life sciences sector, but I am hoping to transition to operations in the next couple of years. I’d certainly be open to moving in-house on the legal side first, but I know those jobs don’t fall from trees!

    I’d be grateful for any book recs, anecdotes, tips, etc.

  3. So my long distance bf has been distant since we became long distance in October. He had a lot of family drama over the holidays and I finally took the hint and started giving him distance. On Friday, he called me and basically said “I don’t know if you’re taking a step back but things here are tough and I do want and need to hear from you.” I was thrilled at this. Happy communication followed until Saturday night.

    Bf just re-appeared via text after zero communication since Saturday night. I feel like I am being jerked around…he wants me to “be in touch whenever you can” but then goes dark for 1.5 days (despite my messaging him)? What’s going on? Am I being unreasonable?

    Honestly sometimes this is like trying to have a relationship with a brick wall.

    1. What’s going on is that he wants to hear from you when he wants, and contact you when he wants, without giving you and say or considering that you also have needs.

      He needs to be able to go 1.5 days without communication. It doesn’t matter if that is objectively reasonable, it matters if that works for you. If it doesn’t, break up with him. He’s showing you what he is like in this relationship. Listen.

      1. I agree here. As the other OP’s have noted, it depends on how long you were a couple BEFORE he moved away and how serius it was. If you were VERY serius before, and he is now distant, then it may be b/c he needs another Girlfreind for intimacy, and you are NOT available. On the other hand, if you were serius, but not to serius, and you were not with him (emotionaly and physicaly) on a near daily basis, do NOT expect for it to be any better with him somehere else. It is ALWAYS difficult with a LDrelationship, and most do NOT work unless you are very serius and engaged, and you have a plan or AFTER you are MARRIED. If you did not, it sounds like this relationship is petering out fast. He want’s to talk when he want’s to talk, and who knows what or where he is when he is not there on the phone. YOU do NOT want to be some sort of washrag for him if he rolls into town, giving him place to stay and have sex. I say to have him comit NOW or go your own way b/c he sounds NOT reliable for anything important. FOOEY!

    2. You’re not being unreasonable – especially if daily contact is what you’ve been used to up until October when you became long distance. I agree with Anonymous above — whether it’s reasonable is not the issue. Whether you are okay with it is the real question here.

      1. And it’s okay to not be okay with it! I beat myself up over saying I “shouldn’t” have a problem with X or Y behavior…but that really didn’t matter. I wasn’t okay with it, and sometimes it’s a round peg square hole situation.

    3. How long have you been long distance?

      I don’t think you’re being unreasonable either. I think daily communication is important, especially in a LDR. You don’t necessarily have to have a long conversation every day but I would not be able to handle that level of communication. I agree with the above advice – is this enough for you? I’m gathering from your post that it’s not but only you can answer that…

    4. Call him on the phone and discuss it with him. It sounds like he is asking for more than he’s willing to put in. There’s no reason to beat around the bush. If he’s not meeting your halfway in a long distance relationship, cut your losses and move on.

    5. How long did you date before you went long distance and how was the relationship then? You’re not being unreasonable.

    6. Please set aside time to talk to him – so that it works with both of your schedules. Maybe there are compromises to make- maybe he sends you a few morning texts and then you have a phone call at night. Or maybe he can try to let you know when he’ll be unavailable due to family situations. My BF and I dated long-distance for two years, and we’re happily together in the same place now, but it is A LOT of work and compromise. We made an agreement that I wouldn’t text him (barring emergencies) at work, but no matter what I’d get a check-in phone call at night. And if I had homework or a final coming up, we would skip connecting that night. I think the emergency of a text, to answer it RIGHT NOW, could be a small stressor and make him anxious inadvertently. I feel that way from texts from my mom during the work day – if I don’t answer, even if I’m swamped, I feel guilty and start to resent seeing her name pop up.

      Maybe a thoughtful “how my day was” emails for stretches when he or you are swamped are a different way to stay in touch. You’re not being unreasonable, but please realize LDRs are an incredible amount of work and compromise and communicating in the best ways for you is how people survive it. And always remember it is optional, you don’t have to stay in the relationship if you’re unhappy with an aspect of it.

  4. What’s the best management advice or wisdom you’ve received?

    I’m four hours into my first day of managing a team of four, and I’m already realizing how different this new role is.

    1. I’d wear black or nude hose (sheer-ish) as opposed to tights (opaque) or opt for a pantsuit – you can layer leggings or nude hose under the pants for warmth but still look professional.

      1. That is such great management advice but I think black opaque tights are also very managerial.

    2. Actual management advice:

      Focus feedback (positive and constructive/critical) on the task, not the person

      Don’t expect to be pals with your direct reports, even if you were before.

      Everyone complains about their manager. Don’t take it personally.

    3. Figure out how things work before launching into big changes. Solicit feedback from your team. Ask them what works and doesn’t work for them. See if there are small changes you can make to show your team you are listening to them. Investing in the relationships now will pay off later when you have to make potentially unpleasant changes.

    4. Read “It’s Your Ship: Management Techniques from the Best D@mn Ship in the Navy.” It’s a quick, entertaining read and you’ll learn some really important things.

      – Care about your people. Rule #1.

      – When your people do well, praise them in front of higher ups. “You know, Julia Smith on my team did a really fantastic job on this.” Don’t accept praise you didn’t earn. Humility will earn you loyalty from subordinates and respect from superiors.

      – When giving assignments, be clear about your expectations. Things like due dates, formatting, audience are all basic information, yet I have to pry them out of the people I work with now every.single.time. Bonus points if you develop a system (even a simple bulleted email) when assigning work that makes it clear what you want. (Said another way, don’t be the wishy washy nice girl who doesn’t want to set a deadline because she doesn’t want to appear too firm.)

      – Have a weekly team meeting where you check in with your team. Talk about work, talk about family, build a team, not just a group of coworkers.

      – Have an initial counseling session. Again, it’s about setting expectations. Because here’s a crazy point: most people want to do well at work. And they can’t if they have no idea what you want of them. Communicate.

  5. Oral arguments in my state’s intermediate appellate court for this first time this week. It is finally cold here – in the mid-30s. Are black tights with a black skirt suit appropriate? Will be the only female attorney, so no real frame of reference.

    1. I’d wear nude hose. Mid-30s isn’t that cold, and tights are less formal. I think tights are fine, but an appellate appearance would be a big deal for me, not a day to settle for fine.

      1. Agreed. I think that black tights and a black suit is fine, but looks a little weird to me for some reason. Just too much black on black on black I guess. (FWIW, I like to wear gray tights if I’m wearing a black skirt and black shoes because I think it breaks things up a little, but I’m not sure that I’d choose that for a big-deal court occasion.)

      2. From someone in the Southwest, 30s sounds REALLY cold! I’d be there in a snowsuit.

      1. You should wear nude hose if you feel more professional, but in my state (NY) I have worn and seen plenty of opaque black tights in appellate court. We stand at a lectern and the panel can’t see below sort of mid-chest level anyway. I have also worn pants, and, during pregnancy, a random jersey dress to appellate court with a jacket. But wear what makes you feel confident! And good luck!

    3. Probably depends on what state you are in. I wear nude hose when I have oral argument in my southwestern state. I have seen women argue in bare legs however.

  6. Lately, I’ve been really struggling with the concept of working more than 40 hours per week, which is what I currently work. How do you manage more than that? I’m married with no kids and have a half-hour each way public transit commute, but I feel like my entire day is taken up with getting ready for work, traveling to work, being at work for 8 hours of billable time (lunch/breaks are extra), coming home from work, and unwinding from work. The whole process takes 12 hours from wake-up to arrival home if I don’t stop anywhere for errands, leaving a whopping 3 hours in the evening to cook dinner, exercise, shower, and do things like pay bills online or clean up or whatever (I need my eight hours of sleep, preferably nine). I barely feel like I have time for hobbies or quality time with my husband. Basically, how on earth do you work more hours than that? What are your strategies for dealing with busy days and feeling like your life is consumed with work? Most importantly, are those of you who work 55, 60, 70 hour weeks happy?

    1. I’m confused by your question. 3 hours every evening to do whatever you want sounds amazing to me. Can’t your quality time with husband overlap with making dinner and unwinding from work? If you have a hobby, you cook ahead so you don’t make dinner those nights. Bills should be getting auto-paid if your concern is time.

      Basically as an adult I don’t expect to have oodles of free time. I’m gone 12 hours a day and I have time to work out, sleep, eat dinner, and watch tv or talk on the phone or read every weekday, unless I go out. And I’m pretty happy with that.

      1. I should clarify that I’m struggling with having 3 hours per day (ish) to do necessary chores/life stuff like making dinner and cleaning and then having any time left over for whatever I want (which might include reading, writing, watching a TV show with husband, etc.).

        1. I guess my question is – how many chores do you have if 3 hours a day aren’t enough? I work much more than 40 hours a week but I have a short commute so that helps.

          Just thinking out loud here… I make my bed/generally tidy up in the morning while I’m getting ready. Cook 3-4 times a week (usually takes about 30-45 minutes). But boyfriend and I usually do that together and watch tv or listen to a podcast while we’re cooking so honestly it doesn’t feel like a chore. Clean while we cook and then after dinner, all we have to do is put away leftovers and put plates in the dishwasher/wipe down the counters. For big cleaning, I outsource that but I used to do it Saturday mornings for about an hour.

          I’m not great at making it to the gym but that’s because I tend to prioritize other things. I could probably add a quick workout in the morning or the evening but I find it hard to motivate myself to go to the gym when I’m leaving after 7 and am starving.

          Are you using your weekends to prep for the week? I do my meal planning on Sundays so cooking is seamless once I get home.

          After cooking/eating/cleaning is done, I find I usually have enough time to watch at least an hour of TV, and then move to bed and read in bed.

          Not sure if any of this is helpful but I would maybe track how you’re spending your evening. If unwinding from work is what you do first and you spend an hour netflixing or something, it makes sense that you feel like you don’t have enough time to get everything done.

          1. Thanks everyone for the helpful responses so far! In terms of why chores are taking so long, I think it’s partially a reflection of me not having a great strategy in place and partly because of where we live. We are in a tiny apartment with no dishwasher or in-unit laundry and I find that those two things alone add a LOT of time to cooking/washing dishes/washing clothes. It also takes a while to get food since we bike to the grocery store a few miles away (no car) and it’s in the opposite direction from work. However, I think I need to find ways to combat those factors and make up for it elsewhere (like appreciating the fact that in 500 square feet, there isn’t as much to clean!).

            I like the type to not unwind from work first and then do other things – that actually might be a factor for me since I always do feel like I have less time in the evening if I get home at 5:45 and don’t get off the couch until 6:10. I often do take care of everything productive first, but not always, and this is definitely an area I can improve.

          2. Can you just get groceries on the weekend? Switch to delivery? Rent a zip car? Drop your clothes off to be washed and folded?

            You’ve set you life up to make basic chores as difficult as possible. If that’s not an ansolute economic necessity I would reevaluate. Why do you live several miles from the nearest grocery store without a car?

    2. I have a similar schedule with a slightly longer commute. Some things I do:

      — make the commute more pleasant. I have special podcasts or books that I only get to enjoy during my commute, so it gives me something to look forward to.

      –sign up for a class in something I’m interested in. Somehow, I manage to still pay the bills/exercise/see friends, but I also get in some good hobby time. It helps when I’ve paid for it and cleared my schedule on a particular night.

      –cut back on effort in some areas, like cooking dinner. I’ll buy healthy pre-made TJ’s stuff for a few nights a week or use my slow cooker on the weekends and freeze soup or chili so I can just grab and go during the week. Knowing that I can just walk in the door and have dinner on the table ASAP really helps me decompress and not feel like I’m wasting precious free time cooking dinner. I don’t do this every day, but I do it on days I go to class or the gym, for example.

      –try to pay bills online during my lunch hour

    3. Welcome to adulthood!

      I work more, but I find happiness in little snippets – like a good podcast on my commute; chatting with friends via text, tv on ipad while cooking.

    4. When I worked about 55 hrs/week, I was EXTREMELY efficient for my working time. I would be at work from about 6 am-5 pm and I usually billed 10.5 hrs, no extra time for lunch or breaks. I also got up at 4:45 every day and worked out before work, and had a short commute (20 minutes, walking) so I had between 5:30-9:30 or 10 to get dinner and hang out with DH. My hobby was on the weekend so didn’t cut into the work week.

      It wasn’t sustainable for more than 5 years, but I only kept it up for that long.

    5. Three hours sounds amazing.

      Short answer: I don’t do hobbies during the week. I combine quality time with my husband with cooking dinner. I get (generously) 6 hours of sleep a night, even if I would greatly prefer to have eight hours. I wake up at 4 am to work out in the mornings. I generally work 50 hours/week.

    6. I’m in the same boat.
      Life was actually easier for me when I was working 60-70 hours a week because I had a much higher pay check and just outsourced everything. I literally never cooked (takeout or food delivery every night or husband cooked), we had a cleaning service come every week, we had grocery delivery for the food items we had to have on hand, we sent laundry out, we paid a dogwalker, etc etc. My husband handled basically everything that couldn’t be outsourced, except for a couple of very minimal, discrete things I handled (most of which could be done from the office) like bill-paying.
      Now I work a more normal 45-50 hours a week but we don’t outsource anything because a) my paycheck is a lot lower and b) I feel like we don’t work “enough” to justify it. My husband still cooks dinner most nights and probably does more than his share of the housework and pet care and (understandably, since he also works 40+ hours a week) grumbles about why I don’t do more. And yet, I’m totally exhausted. I’m not sure what I do in the three or so hours between getting home and going to sleep, but I don’t have any hobbies, I don’t read much or watch much TV (maybe 2-3 hours a week total), I’m not getting nearly enough sleep (I’m exhausted all the time), don’t have quality time with my husband and I’m apparently not doing my fair share of the household chores. I just have no idea where the time is going and honestly feel much more stressed and burned out than when I was working 70 hours a week and basically doing nothing but working.
      Having the money (and giving yourself permission) to outsource can really make your life so much better. Plus, if you’re only home to sleep, there’s not really much house to take care of (especially if you don’t have pets).

      1. I feel similarly about more money = more outsourcing. I changed jobs, have a much better schedule, but also took a huge pay cut. Sometimes I wish I could just pay someone else to do all the things I don’t want to do, even though I have the time to do them.

        Side note – if you’re really that exhausted, you may want to talk to your doctor about getting your thyroid checked.

      2. Just throwing this out there–have you gotten bloodwork done? I don’t mean to be online doctor-person, but I used to be exhausted and stressed after work–even when my hours were cut in half. It turned out I had some pretty low vitamin levels. Once I started treatments I felt a gazillion times better. I could get through the work day without a midday slump, I actually could do stuff after work, and I woke up each morning feeling refreshed, not still exhausted.

        Just a thought if you haven’t had a checkup in a while.

      3. How are your eating habits? I went through a period when I was tired all the time. Eventually someone pointed out to me that I was eating about 600 calories during the day before having a 1500 calorie dinner (numbers somewhat fudged). Switching to a large lunch made a huge difference in my energy levels.

      4. I could have written this myself. I feel 100% the same way – including the job change, the husband, and the pets. And for all the medical commenters – I just had a checkup and everything is normal. Basically I don’t know how to handle this new life.

    7. I think you are getting the picture from the other commenters but yeah I work on average around 60 hours a week and have a 30 minute commute and the answer is no hobbies during the week? I have usually about 1-2 hours at home to cook/eat dinner and watch TV with my husband then I go to bed. I work out in the mornings before work, and while once and a while I socialize on a weeknight, generally social engagements are on weekends. A demanding job means few extracurriculars…(but for me is totally worth the trade off)

    8. Yeahhhhh, sorry, I would kill for 3 hours a night to chill, watch TV, shower, etc. It’s just how adulting works. It sucks, but them’s the breaks.

      I used to work full-time 40 hours a week and did grad school at night and made it work. You learn to be efficient and how to budget time. Limiting TV, social media, mindless surfing is a huge help–cut that out and you’ll be amazed how much time is left. Even when I was working 70 hours+ I managed to read books, spend time with hubby, etc. Time was short during the week, but I made the best of it.

      Getting up early and eating well is key for me-that way I can get away with less sleep and get stuff done in the morning (exercise, write, whatever) since I’m usually beat after work.

      1. Yes to cutting down on mindless surfing and tv. It’s amazing how much time you get back.

    9. What are you comparing this too? Being a student? Because really in the big picture 2-3 hours a day is a lot of free time. I can’t imagine dinner and chores taking more than an hour. It seems like you could schedule 1-2 hours to do all your chores for the entire week, if you don’t have kids.

      It does help to feel like you are doing more if you have big activities scheduled (like, workout Tues Thurs, Activity Wed, social activity Friday) and not doing the same routine every day after work. I mean, what do you want to do? Schedule a time to do that, and then figure out the rest of it around that. I think “unwinding from work” can be super big time suck of not doing anything, at least for me (inertia!), so I try to get everything done that I need to do as soon as I get home, and then take the time to unwind once that is done. And for me, avoid the tv/internet and magically you have so much more free time.

    10. Question for all these morning workout people – what do you do with your hair? I would love to workout in the mornings, but I don’t know how to be presentable with my little longer than shoulder-length curly hair that has to be blown dry and straightened to look professional. I end up working out in the evenings – which cuts out a lot of time from any evening plans.

      OP – I’m with you. Transitioning from student to adulthood is tough. I don’t know how people with children or other responsibilities do it. But somewhere I read that you need less sleep as you age, so I have hope that I will start adjusting soon.

      1. I’m a sweaty mess every time I work out (no “glowing” for me), so I have to wash my hair in the mornings after workouts. My hair is wavy/curly if it dries naturally, so I just wash it, towel dry it, put in some curl product, scrunch, and air-dry. By the time I get to work, it’s dry enough to be professional. On days when I want to look more put together, I’ll blow dry and straighten it. If I can’t even be bothered, I’ll dry the front and back and put it in a bun.

      2. I work out in the morning, but I do it by running in my neighborhood so I just get up early, put on running clothes and then come home and shower/get ready like normal. I wash my hair pretty often (for sure if I went for a run, and most days unless I’m really running late) but I have a low-maintenance style (blow dry and up in a bun for most work days), so it doesn’t take too long. Could you do the same thing – blow dry but skip straightening and put it up? I’ve also found the longer my hair is, the easier this routine gets – it’s easier for me to put up longer hair than shoulder-length hair.

      3. I wash my hair at night, straighten it, whatever. In the morning, I do a twisted up bun and usually wear a thick headband. That keeps my head from getting sweaty and ruining the straightness.

        Usually when I’m done I just let it out and ends up with great body from the bun. If it needs a bit more oomph, I use Pssst dry shampoo and I’m good to go.

      4. I shower? And wash my hair. And then I try it. No one “needs” to straighten her hair to be professional.

        1. I think you’re taking your own hair for granted. There are plenty of us (myself included) that could not just dry our hair and look professional. At the very least I need to round brush it straight while I dry it, and that takes 30 minutes… not because I take my time, but because I have a ton of hair.

          There are also some of us (again myself included) that don’t wash our hair every day, making my entire other point (and yours) irrelevant.

          1. FALSE. You may want to, but hair as it grows out of your head is always, without question, professional.

          2. Nope, my hair, without diffusing and the addition of certain hair products, does not look professional just out of the shower. It looks extremely unkempt. Same expectations go for dudes – gotta have some semblance of a trim on that beard, or keep the hair from entering mullet territory. It’s okay to expect people to do some grooming. It’s not sexist, or racist, or any other sort of -ist.

          3. Trimming your beard and getting your hair cut once every six weeks is not even remotely comparable to spending 30 minutes a day straightening your hair. Which you would never expect a man with your hair to do.

          4. Y’all are welcome to my head of hair if you think super thick, sort of curly, sort of wavy, nuthin-but-pouf hair is professional on its own as it comes out of my head. Other hair textures “just as they grow” may be, but my hair texture is not.

            +1 for the 30 minute blow out.

      5. Care, if you workout in the AM and don’t have time to wash, blow dry and straighten, can you put it up in a bun? Can you put in some dry shampoo, blast with a blow dryer for a minute to re fluff it, and then go from there?

        1. Agree with NYtoCO on just having a ton of hair, which takes time. And if my hair dries naturally with no product or heat tools, I look like I’m trying to dress up as a witch for Halloween because the texture is so confused (which is actually convenient each Halloween). I could probably chop a ton of it off (though that can lead to more styling needs), but I’m not willing to do that for the extra time in the evenings.

          Other than that, thanks for the feedback everyone! I think I need to start working on my bun-making skills. I’m not the best at any kind of hair styling, but if I like the idea of anything that doesn’t require me to dry it all before work.

      6. I cut my hair short-really really really short, i.e. that I have no use even for a comb. I love it. I would otherwise have an enormous jew-fro that requires at least 30 min of styling to make look reasonable, and about an hour to actually straighten it. And then it gets all frizzy anyways. I guess it takes balls to do, but I could never go back. My husband (then boyfriend) is the one who suggested I simply hack it off. I also like how having very short hair makes me look instantly chic and like I am trying to be fashionable (even when that is not the case).

    11. You can’t do everything every day.

      One day, you might work for 16 hours and do nothing else besides sleep.
      Another day, you might go home at 7 and cook dinner and chill.
      Another day, you go out for dinner with friends, or pursue a hobby.
      And occasionally you go home, finish work, catch up on chores, and that’s it.

      That works for 50-60 hour weeks, at least.

      When I was working 60+ hours/week (and traveling for work), I did nothing besides work during the week, socialized on Friday and Saturday night, and caught up on sleep and chores and hobbies on the weekend. I think after ~60 hours I get unhappy, but up to 60 or so I enjoyed my job and was happy with my life.

    12. You’re complaining about three hours per day?? I’m lucky if I have three hours in the whole YEAR to myself. The key is time management. I work 17 hours per day, and fit in everything else in the other 8 hours. I put on my makeup while I exercise and also listen to podcasts. I blow-dry my hair while still in the shower. I cook breakfast while giving presentations at work. I pick up my kids from school at exactly 1:15 PM every single day, which isn’t when their school ends, but that allows me to get back to work so I can bond with them while answering emails. I sleep while spending time with my husband by wearing novelty glasses that make it appear that my eyes are open. That’s just what adulthood is and if you don’t like it, then maybe you have unrealistic expectations for life.

    13. Is your reference point being in school? This sounds like grown-up life to me. I don’t think 40 hours a week is “long hours.”

      If your commute is 1 hour, and you work 8 hours, you are spending 3 hours getting ready for work and “unwinding”?

      That seems like a lot. Your getting-ready and unwinding routines sound like they take up too much time.

      You should get Instacart or other grocery delivery.

      But really, this sounds like A LOT of free time. I have about half an hour a day of free time during the weekdays. I guard and cherish it. I don’t even know what I would do with 3 hours of free time plus an additional 3 hours of getting-ready and “unwinding” time.

      1. Not OP and in her defense, not all of us have a social circle full of other professionals. Most of my friends are people who punch in at 8:30, get a lunch to run errands or go to the gym, and leave at 5. When they have an extra 10-12 hours on me per week, it can feel like I’m so far behind on life. They get all of their errands and chores done after work because stores are still open and they’re not exhausted, and then want to play all weekend and don’t understand having to do adult things like groceries and laundry in between brunch and later-day-drinking. They make snide comments when I can’t meet for happy hour at 4:30 on Friday. In their minds, they get to judge me for not having enough time to do things on their schedule *and* for being “the rich one” (because student loans aren’t a thing, apparently), whereas I’d be a complete d!ck if I complained about their money reasons for not being able to do X fancy event–even though both complaints are sides of the same rude coin.

        Would I prefer to have friends with similar work demands who aren’t so judgmental? You bet. But those people are busy working away and then getting sh!t done during their limited free time and are kinda hard to foster new friendships with when schedules never align.

        1. “They get all of their errands and chores done after work because stores are still open and they’re not exhausted, and then want to play all weekend and don’t understand having to do adult things like groceries and laundry in between brunch and later-day-drinking. ”

          I have this issue, too. I’m in my mid- late 20s where day drinking/sunday fundays/ play days are still pretty common. But I have to leave many of my life tasks/ hobbies for weekends, so if I choose Sunday Funday, that may mean no groceries till I stagger to the store on my way home from work Wednesday.

          I have started to dread happy hour invites because of the constant chorus of “your job sucks, why can’t you leave the office at 5:30 on friday! Booooooooooooo!”

          OP is married, but I’m single- so the other tough part is that if I don’t make time for my friends, whether its weekends or after work dinners (tough when you leave at 8p), I have little to no social life whatsoever. Can’t just come home and cuddle/make dinner with Hubby.

          1. Totally agree with you on being single making it tougher. And I don’t know how to fit dating into being this busy, because I’m not going to prioritise meeting a new guy over seeing friends on the one night a week I have free.

          2. Re dating – earlyish brunch dates were the best for me. Brunch date at 11 a.m., second brunch (aka mimosas) with friends at 1 p.m., then grocery shopping at 3 p.m.

            But I feel you. When I took dating seriously, I had basically no social life. When I was trying to make friends, I had no time to date.

        2. Yeah. A few of my friends get out in the 3:30-4:30 range. Totally understand. They don’t “get” that I leave work at 7 on a normal day. Later or early when needed/possible.

        3. Uh, it seems like most of your problem is your “friends” are kind of jerks? It is really hard when your friends are in very different places in life, but actual true friends can figure out how to maintain a friendship without judgment. Also what grown adult has friends who get mad if you sometimes can’t hang out, or can’t spend the entire weekend together? Are you still in just out of college mode? I mean, my friends are good if we meet up once a month for brunch or happy hour.

      2. OP is not at work for just 8 hours — she’s billing 8 hours a day, which requires being in the office for more than 8 hours. OP, try to be as efficient with your time in the office as you can. Sure, it would be great to have a lunch and a break or two, but are those snippets of time really more important to you than another hour to run errands or work out? I try to eat lunch while reading something so that I’m billing during that time. Definitely not glamorous, but that’s an acceptable tradeoff for me because I’d rather get out the door in the evening. If you don’t really need a break, just a change of pace, switch to something that would otherwise suck up your time later, like paying bills or jotting down a grocery list. If you can cut your wake-up to return commute time down from 12 hours even to just 11, that’s a significant improvement.

    14. It sounds hokey, but the hubs and I do laundry together and I’d count that as “together” time. We don’t have in-unit laundry, so we take it down the street to a large facility, where we can do 7 loads at once. While the washers are going, we take a 20-30 minute walk in the area.

      I get what you’re feeling — that work is sucking too much time out of your daily life. I feel that, too, frequently (and I work 40 hours, plus 10+ freelance). I’ve tried to get better at prioritizing what’s really important (like husband time > having a clean sink.)

    15. I felt exactly the same way when I graduated from college and had my first real job. It’s hard to make that transition! It gets easier over time.

      I’d think seriously about ways to make chores easier. Your whole grocery/laundry system sounds unsustainable to me.

      One other thing: consider not going home after work. If you want to go out to dinner, go straight from desk to dinner. If you want to go for a run, do it on the way from home. That eliminates transition time and transition time can be a killer. Also consider doing some of your home stuff at work – for example, can you stay an extra hour at work to pay bills once a month? I’m more efficient that way.

      Finally, I have had times when I work 80 hours a week and am miserable, and times when I work 80 hours a week and am really happy. It just depends on what the work is.

    16. I’m having trouble figuring out what your problem is? You mention making dinner and doing dishes taking an inordinate amount of time. But what are you making on weeknights that is taking so much time? With just two of you there shouldn’t be a ton of dishes to do. Two plates, two sets of knives and forks, a couple of glasses, a pot or two. That takes, what, maybe 15 minutes to wash by hand? And if you’re working 55-60 hours a week, you aren’t home to make much of mess. So housework shouldn’t be taking forever either. 500 square feet when you’re barely home should be easy to maintain. A little dusting and sweeping once a week, clean towels and sheets, a quick scrub in the bathroom and you’re done. How much laundry are the two of you generating each week? I fold while I watch TV. Talk to Mr. gov anon while we make dinner and do the dishes. That’s how we spend time together. Quality time doesn’t necessarily have to look like date night.

      If you’re really pressed for time you either need to adjust your expectations or spend money to outsource some of the chores.

    17. I work in management consulting (about 1.5 years in) and work regularly 60+ hours per week. However, almost all of that time is Mon-Thurs where I am traveling and working 16+ hour days with no expectation of anything different. All hobbies and fun stuff are planned for Thursday night through Sunday, and I do not work on weekends. DH and I pay for a housecleaner every other week and divide chores so that he grocery shops/cooks and I do the laundry (usually on Friday evenings/Saturday mornings).

      The schedule works greatfor me because I am all about managing expectations. If I know that weekends are reserved for pleasure, then I don’t mind working the crazy weeks. I don’t know how sustainable this will be over time, but I plan to reassess yearly this lifestyle and adjust my career accordingly.

    18. I’m a surgical resident so I work some of the most notoriously terrible hours around. The average in my specialty/department is about 13-14 hours a day Mon-Fri, plus overnight every third night (ie. go to work at 6 AM and am in the hospital usually until 7 PM the following day) plus every second weekend- on the pager from Friday night until Monday AM (I can go home to sleep and shower if my pager is quiet but generally I am working all day and possibly throughout the nights). It was really terrible when I started. But I think I learned some coping mechanisms that can help! Especially because resident salaries aren’t that high so outsourcing everything is difficult.

      This is what I do:
      1. I know my maximum productive time is first thing in the morning. My brain is fresh and happy. So I get up at 4:30 AM to do my high-stakes thinking work before I go in. It gives me at least a solid hour of productivity in the morning before I go to work (I usually start at 6-6:30 AM so leave at 5:30 0r 6 AM). Then I do my low-mental-stress stuff in the evening when my brain is tired (gym, shower)
      2. My morning get-ready-for-work routine is super fast. I shower at night but I only wash my hair once mid-week and once on the weekend. When I’m at the gym I put it in a high bun and headband. It takes me 45 seconds to wash my face, moisturize, and put on a little BB cream and mascara. My clothes are all washed on the weekends, and the clothes for each day and laid out so I just pick it up and put it on. No options, no time wasted on deciding. I eat breakfast while I am driving or while I am working in the morning. I keep everything I need for work at work, so there is very little packing my bag in the morning. I grab my ID badge and pager and I can be ready to walk out the door in 10 minutes.
      3. My boyfriend understands my lifestyle and work and doesn’t demand things I can’t give him (he knows that if I’m on call for a weekend he might not see or hear from me at all, for example) and tries to support my life. I think this is incredibly important and we have a fantastic relationship by understanding each other’s needs and abilities to meet those needs. Someone who understands you and what you have to give is so important.
      4. We have a house-cleaner. Even on my salary, it is SO worth it. I get somewhere between 4 and 6 entire days off per month and I’m not spending those days cleaning the bathroom. She only comes once a month or so, but she does all the heavy cleaning and we can handle the in-between.
      5. I “home from work” (or home from my car) to the degree possible. If I have a few minutes of downtime at work, I’ll order things online, make phone calls, etc. A lot of chores can be done by phone or online.
      6. I make chores as convenient as possible. My dry-cleaner is beside my condo and she’ll leave my dry-cleaning with my concierge, for example. I auto-pay all my bills. I order lots of things online even if the stores are nearby because then it will be delivered to my condo and I don’t have to try to get to the store during their open hours. Plus I can order them when I have a few mins/seconds of downtime instead of having to make a separate trip.
      6. I try to be gentle with myself. My apartment isn’t perfect. I don’t bring in home-made lunches and smoothies. My hair is in a pony-tail or bun more days than not. It’s ok. You can’t have everything (or be everything) all the time. Do what’s important to you.
      7. By this time, all my friends who needed me to be available at the last minute, do happy hours at 5 pm, or spend my whole weekend drinking, are long gone. You say “no, I can’t” enough times and they stop asking. It was sad when it started happening, but now, I’m friends with other people like me, who are okay with making plans a couple of weeks in advance, happy with connecting for an hour after work, or a yoga class together. People who have a similar lifestyle and understand mine. It’s so much better.
      8. I don’t cook during the week, but if it was important to me, I would. I think the issue is prioritizing what is important to you and letting the rest fall aside. You can’t do it all, so choose what is most valuable to you. If you have that in place, you’re doing pretty well!

  7. Looking for some pregnancy announcement advice. Started a new job in the summer, just found out about pregnancy over Xmas. This is unplanned and not the timing I’d choose, although overall it’s happy news. I am already starting to worry about having to tell my (relatively new) bosses. I know it’s probably TMI and unprofessional, but I’m so tempted to say something to the effect that it wasn’t planned, because I feel like my professional credibility is at stake! I really wanted to take the time to build up a solid rep, work with a variety of people, etc. (and get to the point where I was eligible for all the benefits that I now won’t get). But that’s the wrong call, yes? Keep the announcement short and matter-of-fact?

    1. Maybe b/c I’m older want wanted to make sure that the prenancy would stick, but I waited until I was well into my second trimester (so the observant secretaries knew). It was more of the “I’m due to have a baby in June. [Pause in case there are congratulations / observe reaction.] Here is how I think coverage for my leave could work and what up-training I’d like to do in between now and then.”

    2. DON’T!!! I see where you are coming from, but a colleague of mine mentioned that her pregnancy was a “surprise”, and it made us wonder how someone with an MBA could be so dumb as to mess up their birth control. Just make it clear that you’re happy to be announcing it, and it will see way less weird, even if the timing is not what you would have chosen.

      1. It’s not a matter of being “dumb” – it really is possible for BC to fail even with perfect use. OTOH, I don’t think it’s anyone’s business whether it’s a “surprise” or not. Years ago, I was interviewing while actively undergoing fertility treatment, and no surprise, I was 5 weeks pregnant when I started the job.

      2. I don’t think it makes them look dumb, I just think it’s oversharing. Like I get that you have sex to have a baby, but I feel like when you say it’s a surprise, it brings your sex life wayyyy too much to the surface for work.

        It’s not your professional credibility at stake! It’s a normal thing in business. Be matter of fact and helpful in terms of transition, but don’t worry about it otherwise.

        1. Yes, this! Saying it’s a surprise gets people thinking about how the baby was made, which is something you never want your colleagues to think about.

      3. Yes, this! Saying it’s a surprise gets people thinking about how the baby was made, which is something you never want your colleagues to think about.

      4. MBA =/= MD

        I might be more concerned with an MD who messed up their BC, though given the sleep deprivation that can come with some positions, might give them a pass.

      5. FWIW, I completely agree with you. So many people I know have claimed to have surprise or accident babies that BC doesn’t seem any more effective than just winging it. Just so you don’t think you’re alone in these thoughts.

    3. NO no no don’t say it was unplanned! By saying that, you’re effectively apologizing for getting pregnant, and thus positioning your pregnancy as a bad thing. Our culture is already predisposed to think that way (in terms of the working world), so it is not helpful for you to encourage that mindset. Instead, be matter-of-fact (in a happy way) when you announce, to send the signal that this is a normal thing, not a problem. People will pick up on your cues.

    4. Yes, don’t apologize, keep it matter-of-fact and positive.

      Will you not have been there a year by the time the baby actually comes? If so you should be covered.

      1. OP here. I will, but we have benefits (beyond basic FMLA) that don’t kick in till 18 months. But thanks all for confirming that it would be silly to say it was unplanned. And I hear you Anon at 3:07, I’m not planning to announce till second trimester (or longer if I’m not showing yet, but this is my second and I hear you show earlier) – just obsessing about it already!

    5. I don’t know your industry, your boss, or you. But I have given and received many pregnancy announcements. THe best convos go:

      “So I have news- I’m pregnant and due in XXX” “Congratulations! Is this happy news for you?” Responses are “yes! we’ve been trying for a year!” or “well honestly it’s a bit of a shock but we are thrilled” or “i cannot believe i have to do a first trimester again! but otherwise, yes.”

      The very, very best thing you can do is be a solid performer during your pregnancy. I recently had someone that had a totally healthy pregnancy just check out around 5 months pregnant. HR and I met for hours trying to figure out if it was worth putting her on a performance plan the month before she went out on mat leave (we didn’t, but she’s back now and has 1 month to shape up or i’m putting her on a plan). On balance, I had someone with a TERRIBLE first tri, who worked her @ss off even though she should have been on leave (she was extremely ill). Don’t be that woman either. Take care of yourself, keep communication open, and make it clear that you plan to return to work when your leave is up. Your company will be fine without you for the time you are gone.

      w/r/t saying it was unplanned…I think that comes off funny. Comes off like you don’t understand how birth control works, which would ellicit a much worse reaction from me than saying “it’s a bit of a surprise” which could mean you’ve been trying for 2 years and thought you couldn’t give birth, or it could mean you had no idea you were pregnant until you took the test because you felt great or it could mean you had no intention of getting pregnant but i can’t tell because of the vague wording.

      1. Anonymous @ 314 makes some great points about your professional life during pregnancy. I disagree, however, that it’s a good idea to ask someone if their pregnancy is happy news. It suggests the pregnancy may be accidental and, as said above, no one wants to know that about a colleague. Also, where does the conversation go if the pregnant woman replies “no”?

    6. While I generally think it is your business and your business only, there are times where I think noting that timing wasn’t intentional can be a positive. My husband’s office brought in a transfer worker from another state to cover some short staffing they had. The transfer was a permanent transfer but the intent was clear that it was timed to cover this staffing issue. When the transfer ended up pregnant she made clear that she had known her role was to cover the staffing issue that year and had not intended to need to be out as well. But, she did it in a really positive way such as “well, life sometimes has different plans. Let’s see how we can make this work.”

      So, I’d say only call it out if it is super super bad tone deaf timing. You were hired for a particular trial and your due the month before that trial for example. For normal work stuff, no need to mention it’s a surprise unless you really really want to.

    7. This is me right now! Except I will only have been at work for 9 months before the maternity leave. Agh. Truthfully, it was a surprise because we got pregnant before my period returned from my first child. And we were obviously careless, but still. It’s possible to be surprised and have an mba!

      I’m debating whether to mention it was not the timing I would have planned or not. Honestly, my kids will be close enough in age that it’s probably clear it was unplanned. But on the other hand, they can’t be that surprise since I’m obviously smack dab in the middle of family raising!

      For you: it could be worse! Less than a year!

    8. I had even more awkward timing: I got pregnant two weeks after I started a new job — one in which I’m a member of a small team and assignments can’t easily be switched around. And in my case, it was planned. I had been trying for AGES, and was in the middle of fertility treatments when I got the job offer (I hadn’t been actively job hunting, but a great opportunity came my way). I had had to decide whether to continue treatments or wait in light of the new job. I didn’t wait, on the advice of my doctor. And of course after what felt like a million failed cycles, the first one after the job change worked! And now I have a beautiful baby!

      But I digress. Don’t mention that it was planned or unplanned. It’s no one’s business, and people know (or should know) that pregnancy is one of those things that can’t be perfectly scheduled around all of life’s other changes.

  8. Warning: wedding vent ahead. I don’t know what I’m looking for by posting; probably a place to vent, validation that I’m not crazy, or a reality check. Here goes:

    DH and I were invited to his high school friend’s wedding. (Fwiw, Groom but not bride came to our wedding this past year.) This wedding is an hour and a half from a large city at a ranch. The couple has set up this “all-inclusive package” where, for $450, you can stay two nights at the ranch, have a shuttle to and from the large city, and 7(!) meals. The invite stated that if you weren’t going to do the full package, you could not reserve a room at the ranch, i.e. they are saving rooms at the ranch for those who do the full package. Well, for a multitude of reasons, we are not doing the full package. One we don’t want to–Staying three full days and eating every meal at the ranch doesn’t sound fun. Also, the shuttle times don’t work with our flight times (yes we would have to fly to this wedding) and we would have to leave early Sunday morning, therefore missing the two meals on Sunday anyway. We booked a room at a nearby cabin (8 min. drive away; there’s not many options to choose from), which was preferable to us b/c this wedding crew is super rowdy and we liked the idea of having some space from that.

    Fast forward to this weekend when DH tried to RSVP. The website only allows you to decline entirely or sign up for the package–no In between. (The bride has also asked everyone to send her their credit card info so she can book things personally–I kid you not.) So DH calls his friend and says: we can’t wait to be there, we’ll be there for all of Friday and Saturday so let us know how much our meals will be and we can send you a check. A long convo ensues where the groom tries to guilt trip DH into doing the package. DH remains steadfast in his resolve to not pay for things we will not use. Bride sends DH two very passive aggressive texts later that day saying that “they cannot separate out the food costs for [us] because they just can’t have everyone asking for special accommodations.” Um, we are trying to pay you for the food we will eat at your wedding. It’s like they won’t let us RSVP.

    In lieu of gifts they also asked for guests to fund their children’s college funds. I can forgive many an etiquette breach, but when it’s this difficult/dramatic to rsvp, I can’t help but rage slightly.

    /end rant

    1. This sounds totally crazy. If they wanted all their guests to do the package (which is also crazy, but ok) they should at least have made that clear. If it were me, and I could cancel the cabin without any penalties, I’d just say something like “we’d love to see you get married but unfortunately the full package doesn’t work for us, we didn’t realize you needed all your guests to commit to it – so sorry to miss it” and just peace out of the drama.

    2. do you and your husband actually want to attend this wedding? An invitation is not a summons and this sounds like a really bizarre event.

      1. Also, I like ezt’s suggestion for rescinding your “we’ll be there” gracefully.

      2. ^This a million times! So many people like an invitation is an iron-clad obligation. it’s OKAY to decline!

      3. I don’t really want to, and probably after this debacle, DH could take it or leave it. Another wrinkle I forgot to mention is that they asked DH to be the officiant (after we had booked the cabin). He said yes, which is why we initially tried to rsvp, saying that we would be there all of Friday, for whenever the rehearsal is. I think DH will be talking to the groom later today to say that 1. Another officiant would probably be a good idea (I’m sure he’ll phrase it nicely); and 2. We will be there for the ceremony and reception and that’s it.

    3. I think asking for donations to the children’s college fund instead of gifts is actually a nice idea. I would much rather fund someone’s education than someone’s honeymoon in Thailand. And a gift is always optional, you can not give or give something else if you don’t like what they’ve suggested.

      But that all-inclusive package business is totally insane and totally tacky.

      1. Nonsense. It’s not nice. It’s rude and greedy. People do not need to be told what color of cash you want.

        1. I agree that a traditional registry or a request for charitable donations is still the most socially acceptable thing, but I think asking for donation to a college fund is much less tacky than a Honeyfund (that word, gag), which has become super common in the last few years and is now considered completely socially acceptable, at least in my circles.

          1. Are the kids the ones getting married, though? A honeymoon is at least part of a wedding.

          2. Huh. Honey funds, although I have seen them in my circles, are still quite frowned upon/ commented on in all of them

          3. I used to hate the idea of a honeymoon fund (agree on the how terrible a word Honeyfund is) but I guess it makes more sense the more I curate what I buy and keep in my home. For my social circle, most of the traditional registry things are either already owned or unnecessary. One set of nice but not precious dishes will do fine for me, and I already have them. Not getting any gifts would be fine, but people want to buy something – someone picking to pay for Champagne Brunch or Snorkeling Expedition is way more appealing to me than having to deal with the unwanted gifts that will inevitably come from not having a registry. Some older couples might get away with not having a registry, but late 20’s, early 30’s couples can’t.

            But it does still make me a little uncomfortable. Not sure how to resolve that.

          4. My problem is none of the honeymoon funds actually work like that. They say you are giving a champagne brunch but the couple just gets cash (with a fee taken out). That’s why I don’t find it equivalent to a traditional registry- at least there you are buying what it says. Honeymoon registries are just people asking for cash and trying to be cute about it. I know how to write a check- I don’t need a nudge

          5. A honeymoon is not part of the wedding. It’s an expensive vacation for the couple that has somehow recently become acceptable to crowd-fund. At least by asking for donations for their kids the couple is being a lot more selfless (in the direction of a charitable donation, although certainly not that selfless since it ultimately benefits their family).

          6. @Baconpancakes I think the solution to this is “we have what we need, no gifts please.” Some people will inevitably give you gifts anyway and certainly if a friend says “Where are you going on your honeymoon? I’d love to send you on a sunset dinner cruise” than by all means, tell them. But I think registering for the honeymoon is tacky. When I’ve seen it done it’s also often been “We haven’t decided where we’re going, but use this link to contribute $100 to our airfare or hotel” which is just a straight up cash grab. I agree it’s less gross if the couple has picked a specific destination and you can buy them excursions or meals or at least nights at a specific hotel.

          7. I once saw a friend of a friend set up a honeyfund — but to buy new stuff for their house, like she could have sponsored one of 10 $100 “shares” for their new flatscreen, or a $150 share of the new couch they wanted. It was pretty hilarious (and tacky).

        2. But a wedding registry tells guests exactly what item the couple wants. Why is that less rude and greedy?

          I really like the college fund idea and I generally always give cash for weddings so this is normal to me and in my cultural circle. The accommodations issue, though, is completely insane.

          1. You’re providing a service. Someone wants to get you china, you let them know which kind. If I want to give you cash, I’ll write you a check. I don’t need any info from you.

    4. This is just bizarre. I don’t think they intended for anyone to come who didn’t do the full package -basically, they’re having a cruise ship wedding at a ranch.

      And if you invite someone to a wedding, you feed them. You want people to be there for 7 meals? You pay for 7 meals. That’s ridiculous.

    5. Also, sending someone else my credit card information – when he/she is juggling tens/hundreds of other people’s credit cards? NTY! NTY! I agree that if they can’t accommodate your extremely reasonable request, you can just bow out. Sounds like they are attempting to do some sort of Sandals Resort type thing and that’s very weird if it wasn’t explained that way up front.

      1. I know–the credit card info request was just the last bizarre piece of the puzzle.

      2. Credit card information? No way in H E L L!!!!!!! They probably get some sort of discount if X number of people take the package.

    6. I think that you’re trying to select an unavailable option. You can either pay for an all inclusive weekend at the venue, or just attend the reception. You’re trying to pick and choose in a way that’s quite possibly not an option per the venue. If you want to go is circle back and say “oh ok, didn’t realize we couldn’t just do some stuff. We will just see you for the wedding itself.”

      1. I interpreted it this way too – that the bride and groom aren’t telling you you can’t attend the wedding if you don’t do the all-inclusive package, just that you can’t have other, non-wedding meals at the ranch with the guests who are staying there. Is that the case? If so, it doesn’t seem like super bad etiquette, but it is a bit odd.

        1. That may be the case; that actually makes sense. If that is the case though, it was not communicated to us via the invite, the website, the groom’s convo with my husband, or via the bride’s recent texts.

      2. You’re probably right about it being an unavailable option. But the way it was presented in the 10-page invite (not exaggerating) was not clear *at all.*

    7. I can’t tell if I hate the bride because she is a control freak or because she clearly didn’t check into the details and is now getting screwed over by the venue. Depending on level of friendship, bit the bullet and get the package. Or, if this is any indication of future interactions as a couple, they may fade from your lives. I’m sure others have experienced the same and you won’t be the only ones. “We thought the full package was option when reviewing the invitation initially but unfortunately we won’t be able to attend due budget constraints.” *Send Gift*

      And I don’t care if you make a million dollars a year, you still can have a budget. Maybe you want to retire early. They didn’t make it easy on you…Bride is probably being bitter because you aren’t the first ones to bring this to her attention.

      1. You’re right–the groom was really frustrated on the phone because no one had rsvp’d and they had gotten a bunch of calls from people who didn’t want to do the full package. I think the thing that’s most frustrating (if I had to pick just one), is that they didn’t make it clear up front. They just said: we’ve put together this all-inclusive package for three days, send us your credit card info so we can charge you. They didn’t even tell us how much the package was until DH got the groom on the phone. And we definitely have a budget. The wedding is in the same location where DH’s parents live, and we opted to not visit over the holidays because we knew we would be there again for this wedding.

        Thanks everyone for the responses! Just feels good to vent a little bit. Okay, a lot.

    8. I bet they’re getting some kind of kick-back from the full packages that is helping to pay for their wedding- hence the frantic need to have their guests buy up the packages.
      If it were me, they’d either be such good friends that I’d feel comfortable telling them they’re being crazy or they’d be so-so friends and I would just bow out gracefully.

    9. It makes sense that you can’t get only part of the package. Call the ranch and ask if you can buy into some meals – it’s probably not something the couple can sort out and if they tried it’d probably be a nightmare.

    10. Honestly, you *are* asking for a special accommodation by trying to get the Fri/Sat meals without doing the package and I can see why that’s really irritating to the bride and groom. Just tell them you will be at the wedding itself and nothing more, if you don’t want to do this all-inclusive thing. And *please* don’t have your DH back out of officiating. He agreed to do it, he needs to do it. I don’t get what that has to do with staying at the ranch, assuming you can still attend the wedding itself as non-ranch guests. It’s every bride’s worst nightmare to have an officiant back out at the last minute.

      2. Officiating has nothing to do with staying at the ranch, you’re right. But they are now, after he agreed to officiate, guilting him into staying at the ranch. I don’t know if the guilt trip is b/c he is the officiant or not. I don’t think it should matter, but they apparently do. Also, it’s not exactly last minute. The wedding is four months away and they just asked him last week.

      3. I also think it’s a little extreme to back out of officiating – even if they just asked him to do it, saying yes and then saying no but still attending sends a weird message. However, I would expect them to show some gratitude to your husband for officiating, maybe paying some of the travel costs or covering the meals you’ll have at the ranch. At this point, I would attend (and still officiate) and stay in the cabin and plan to be on your own for non-wedding meals.

      4. Completely disagree with this. It is pretty rude to ask someone to officiate your wedding and not offer to cover them for the weekend–at a minimum, the meals he is expected to be at as part of the services should be provided. OP and H are going above and beyond by offering to pay those meals themselves, and it’s *their* foul? No. Just no.

        The couple is getting a kick back for people who buy into the package and it’s super tacky.

    11. I am probably being overly suspicious but it almost sounds like there is a portion of the cost of having the wedding at the ranch (apart from actual cost of 2 nights board, shuttle service and the meals) is being allocated to the guests that commit to the full package – might explain why the bride has requested that people provide their cc info to her instead of dealing directly with the ranch. Just a th0ught.

    12. Maybe I’m misinterpreting your comments and/or the other poster’s comments, but I read your initial post as saying that they bride and groom wanted you to pay for your meal AT THE WEDDING. Am I wrong?

      If you guys are trying to pay for only some of the non-wedding meals at the ranch, then I do understand why you can’t do that/why they’re annoyed. If instead they’re telling you that you can’t attend their wedding because you would have to pay for the wedding meal separately, that’s absurd and they’re crazy pants.

  9. Money management questions . . .

    1. How many months savings do you have in your emergency fund?
    2. Are you married? Children?
    3. Does your answer to #2 impact #1?
    4. Aside from emergency savings, what other savings/investment accounts do you have?
    5. Do you still have student loans, if so, how much do you still owe?

    1. 1) 3 months
      2) engaged no children
      3) n/a
      4) 115K in retirement
      5) 45K in SL (down from 180K)

    2. Big sigh… I’m a poor money manager. But I’ll force myself to answer:

      1. No emergency fund, have about $4000 cushion in my checking account.
      2. Not married, no children.
      3. Maybe?
      4. 401k with about $100k from maxing out since graduating law school.
      5. Yes, $20k.

      2. I just want to say that $4000 is an emergency fund, even if you leave it in your checking. Sure, it should probably be more, depending on your expenses, but it’s still something!

      3. Absolutely!!! Maybe put it (or maybe $3k of it… whatever the amount…) somewhere else so that it’s more secure/not quite as easily accessible?

    3. I’m the worst…. but working on all of this…

      1. About $250 – I just started one
      2. Not married, no kiddos
      3. Not really – it’s more about surviving paycheck to paycheck until recently
      4. Small amount in 401K (maybe $1000?) – again just started
      5. About $200k (undergrad and law school)

    4. Timely convo! Right now all savings are one lump sum and we are goingto start divvying it out. DH and I just set up lots of savings accounts for various “funds” (emergency, house, vacation, car, etc.) and are trying to figure out what to fund initially and on going…

      1. 6 initially funded, goal to grow to 12.
      2. Married, no kids
      3. No.
      4. Here’s our tentative plan… we are setting up multiple “funds” for discretionary spending – car, vacation, house repair/reno, small balance pet emergency fund, general savings fund for (near) future children. Some funds have a cap (ie: emergency, pet fund, car repair fund) while others we want to contribute to on ongoing basis once initially funded (ie: 5% of cash available after bills/living/retirement to vacation fund, 10% to home renovations). After funds are funded, excess cash is going into an “other investment fund” that, when large enough, will be invested in liquid vehicles (MMAs, or something TBD). This is all outside of 401k/retirement savings.
      5. No loans. Only debt auto loans and mortgage.

    5. 1. 6 months, but I will probably use some of this to round out a down payment eventually.
      2. Single, no kids.
      3. I would have at least 6 months if i I had kids, maybe more.
      4. $55K, now maxing out 401k and contributing to a brokerage account. Should have contributed while clerking but… didn’t. Another $55K in a down payment fund.
      5. No, paid them off very aggressively.

    6. 1. 5 months; goal is 12 by 2017
      2. No; no
      3. I don’t know. Obviously the amount is a little less, because it’s just me. Maybe it’s a little more, because I’m my only net. Maybe it’s a little less, because I’m the only one falling. But then again, maybe it’s a little more, because I’m saving an “I can jump if I need to” fund as much as a “something fell on me” fund, and I guess I probably wouldn’t just jump if I had a kid.
      4. 401k; HSA
      5. Yup. A freaking lot. And yes, I know that saving vs. paying is controversial. I’ve got a plan and I’m making a conscious decision while also paying more than minimums.

    7. 1. We currently have about 10 months’ frugal living saved up, but my goal is more like 3-6 months liquid. We are saving for a bugger house right now and parking cash in the emergency fund.
      2. Married with 2 kids
      3. Yes, the amount needed in our fund is based on estimated household expenses, so kids factor in
      4. 401K (me), pension and 401K (husband), stock-market investment fund, 529 funds for children
      5. Husband still has about $20K left on low interest

        1. Sorry–I was rushing. We currently have enough money to live off of for 10 months in our emergency account if we live relatively frugally (no elaborate vacations or new big-ticket purchases). I would rather only keep 3-6 months’ worth of frugal expenses in liquid cash, so my goal is to get the money OUT of my emergency fund and into another investment–new real estate or stock. Since we are considering another house, it is all parked in the emergency fund for now.

          Because we already own a house, and can borrow against it if we really needed the money, I would rather not have too much liquid cash in an emergency fund. I would rather have that money invested and growing.

    8. 1. Currently 7 months fixed expenses, 4 months of current total spending. Planning to add a few more months to it before I switch over to down payment funding.
      2. Single, no kids
      3. Yes, I feel like I need more in the emergency fund because being single is an undiversified revenue stream–there is no second income to back me up if something happens to me.
      4. 401K balance is 75% of my current salary–I’m 30 and 4 years out of school so I’m happy with this and continuing to max out.
      5. ~$30k left out of $185k original balance, <2% interest so I don't need to rush to get rid of them but I'd still like to and have a plan for knocking them out this year.

    9. 1. I have a chunk of money set aside for a down payment/emergency fund. Probably at least 2-3 years’ worth of cash.
      2. Single, no kids
      3. Yes. I’m sure I was able to save this much because I don’t have the expense of kids.
      4. Max out 401(k) and Roth IRA annually, additional stock market investment fund, checking account, a few individual stocks
      5. Paid off student loans awhile ago.

    10. 1. How many months savings do you have in your emergency fund? 1.5 (including student loan payments and 401k payment)

      2. Are you married? Children? Co-habitating with bf, no children yet

      3. Does your answer to #2 impact #1? No. I’m trying to build up my savings but my monthly expenses are high because of student loans.

      4. Aside from emergency savings, what other savings/investment accounts do you have? I max out my 401(k)

      5. Do you still have student loans, if so, how much do you still owe? Still owe $200k.

    11. 1. 3 months
      2. Married, no kids
      3. Yes, I kept more $ in my emergency fund when I was single.
      4. $100k retirement; $5k investments
      5. Paid off loans last year

    12. 1) about 8 months, but in a brokerage account, so it’s not super safe (although in low-risk investments) and not super liquid
      2) Married with 2 kids
      3) kids increases our monthly expenses, other than that, no
      4) 2 401k accounts for me that I haven’t consolidated, I have a Roth IRA, husband has a 401k, 529 for our son, and normal savings account with about $6k. We tend to keep a good “buffer” in checking for mini-emergencies (house expenses, car repairs, etc.) and then use the savings account for all big purchases like vacations, furniture, and holiday presents.
      5) About $15k left on student loans, then low interest mortgage and HELOC, and low low interest auto loan, and no-interest medical bills from the pregnancy. This was a weird thing – my work has an HRA and a high deductible insurance plan, so I had a lag from when my medical bills were due for pregnancy and when the HRA disbursement kicked in. So I went on a zero-interest payment plan with the hospital. When the HRA kicked out the large chunk of cash, I just put it in savings and stayed on the no-interest payment plan. I thought long and hard about it, because I don’t like debt, but I determined there was no downside.

      2. One thing to think about re: borrowing against home equity is that you would probably be converting unsecured debt into secured debt. If you end up in a seriously bad financial situation and are facing bankruptcy, it’s better to have as little secured debt as possible. That way you have a better chance of keeping your house. In other words, give your lenders as little collateral as possible/reduce the recourse they have against you if you are unable to pay. “Use the laws of this country” as a certain someone likes to say. (Not a fan, but he has a point on that issue).

    13. 1. One month (just coming off extended unemployment) $3k

      2. No husband, no kids

      3. I figure it would, yes.

      4. $65k? for retirement

      5. $110k in SLs

    14. 1. 8-10 months
      2. Cohabitating with SO,engagement coming
      3. If I were engaged/married, I probably wouldn’t feel like I needed such a big cushion.
      4. About $65K in retirement, plus another $15K in brokerage accounts
      5. Just paid off the last of my $105K in December!

    15. 1. 2-3 months earmarked as emergency fund, but have an additional 4-5 months of expenses in my down payment fund that I could use if needed. After I use the down payment savings in 2-3 years, I’ll build up the emergency fund account more.
      2. Engaged, no kids.
      3. Not yet. We’re planning to sit down and figure out how to adjust things post-marriage soon.
      4. The aforementioned down payment fund account, a small account for vacation savings (there is usually anywhere from $1000-$3500 in there at any given time, which of course I’d also use to live in an emergency), $80k in retirement accounts.
      5. $70k left out of $188k original balance (low interest rates on remaining loans). I paid very aggressively for the first $100k then switched to focusing more on saving since I felt behind there.

    16. 1. Ugh. Not even one. Starting over. Depleted the emergency fund not once, not twice but three times last year on separate huge home expenses and an unexpected, large medical bill.
      2. Single. One Child.
      3. In theory I would have more.
      4. 401k, IRA, college savings fund
      5. Yes. About 60K.

    17. 1. I have about about one year’s worth of $ in cash/emergency fund. But I am very very frugal, and live simply.

      2. Single. No kids.

      3. I would probably be much less financially secure, if I had kids.

      4. IRA about 120K. About 750K in investments. No 401k (none available thus far). No pension.

      5. No student loans. Paid off small loan to undergrad, and worked through college and parents contributed. I got full ride to grad/med schools, and had decided I wouldn’t go if I didn’t have scholarship. I am totally scared of debt, and grew up in a very unstable/financially insecure family.

    18. 1. 7 months in checking; 36 months in an investment account we could liquidate, and that we will spend down if we ever decide to commit to our current city and buy a house.
      2. Yes; 1 kid
      3. It makes our monthly expenses higher but doesn’t increase the number of months we feel the need to save.
      4. Spouse and I have 401ks at current jobs (max out annually); I have an old 401k from a prior job; he has a Roth from grad school; kiddo has a 529.
      5. Spouse has $20k from undergrad that we pay off as slowly as possible because the interest rate is so low. I torched my high interest rate law school loans 2 years after graduating.

    19. 1. How many months savings do you have in your emergency fund?
      I have a little over $6,000. How many “months” depends on frugal we were, if my husband’s income kept coming in, if I was able to forbear my student loans. It would pay my mortgage for 3 months.
      2. Are you married? Children?
      Married. Thinking about getting pregnant this year.
      3. Does your answer to #2 impact #1?
      Yes. I have no paid maternity leave. I had been very aggressively paying down student loans but will beef up my savings until we have a kid I think.
      4. Aside from emergency savings, what other savings/investment accounts do you have?
      Small 401k. $20k for me and $30k for husband. We are in our mid-30’s. He also will receive a pension though. I’m also hoping to increase my contribution this year and hoping for a bonus or two I can throw in it.
      5. Do you still have student loans, if so, how much do you still owe?
      Yes. $40k, down from $100k. Husband has none.

    20. 1. At least 6.
      2. Yes, 2.
      3. Yes, as does the fact DH and I support 5 other family members in addition to ourselves and our children.
      4. Saving for a home, about 85k there. About 50k in retirement accounts between us.
      5. I paid mine off recently. DH has about 140k.

    21. I’m not going to list numbers since this morning’s “you’re dumb if you don’t max out your 401k,” but, for the record, there are some of us on this site who do not have this kind of savings. It’s okay to be a work in progress balancing your many goals and priorities!

      2. Amen. And there are others of us with different, more immediate priorities right at this moment. Read: house, saving for future child, etc. Doesn’t mean I’m not contributing a lot (I put in $15k, with a 3% match on that) but I’m not going to max it out because that’s not the right plan for me *right now*.

    22. 1. about $25k in cash, which is only about 2-3 months’ current expenses

      2. Married, 2 kids in daycare.

      3. Yes, if I weren’t paying $3k/month for daycare, and if I hadn’t taken 2 mostly unpaid maternity leaves in the last 3 years, I’d have a lot more savings! On the other hand, H’s job is extremely secure, and we are well-insured, so I’m not too worried.

      4. I have $180k in retirement savings, $60k in investments. My husband has some retirement savings, but started much later. Not sure of the amt. Probably $60kish

      5. No student loans. U.S military paid for our higher education.

    23. 1. 0
      1. Nope
      3. Probably yes
      4. 0
      5. 0

      On one hand yeah no savings is scary as hell but I also have no student loands or a mortgage on my back. Fingers crossed things will change on 1 and 4 this year

    24. Late, but I’ll bite:

      1. How many months savings do you have in your emergency fund? 6-9 months, depending on how frugal I am in spending it ($30K)
      2. Are you married? Children? Nope.
      3. Does your answer to #2 impact #1? I guess?
      4. Aside from emergency savings, what other savings/investment accounts do you have? $220K ($70K retirement, $150K non-retirement… folks, max out your retirement savings if you can, you’ll never get that pre-tax space back… I wish I could go back to my 20’s and stretch to invest more in retirement accounts)
      5. Do you still have student loans, if so, how much do you still owe? $80K (only paying the minimum for now because I refinanced at 2% and my investments do better than that)

      I’m 5 years out of law school. I graduated with $0 to my name, living off a $7K paycheck advance from my firm, and over $200K in debt. I’m in a HCOL city, but have made an effort to save as much as possible (at least after the first year, when I was stupid and spent ALL THE MONEY). I never thought I’d survive 5 years in BigLaw, but somehow I did, and I’m going to quit later this year feeling pretty comfortable.

      1. I feel stupid for asking, but what do you mean 70k retirement and 150k non retirement? Are those amounts in different accounts earmarked for certain times in your life?

        1. She probably means that she has 70k in a roth ira or 401k/403b and the 150k is in other investments (stocks, bonds, property, whatever). She may use the 150k for retirement eventually, but it doesn’t have the tax protection of the 401k/403b/ira.

        2. “Retirement accounts” means you can’t touch the money, without penalty, until you’re old (59 or 62I forget). It also means that it goes in untaxed — and may reduce your taxable income as well. So if you’re in a 40% tax bracket, it’s like getting 40% more money. (OK not exactly because taxes are complicated but that’s the easy to understand it.) The money WILL eventually be taxed (what you put in, the principal, as well the earnings) but the theory is that you will be at a lower tax bracket when you retire.

          “Nonretirement accounts” means the money has already been taxed, and you can do whatever you want with it, whenever. If you invest it and it has earnings, those earnings will be taxed as capital gains when you sell the investment.

    25. 1. We have 45k in cash/next day funds, and about 60k in “true emergency but can wait a few days” funds/assets. Also have a $40k credit of accessible cash. Our bare bones living expenses are probably $4500/mo. More realistic is $6k/mo because I wouldn’t stop daycare immediately.

      2.married with 1 kid and 1 on the way.

      3. Maybe, we both have jobs that enable us to save quickly, and we chose a lifestyle that with some belt-tightening would allow one of us to not work/work part time if needed/desired. Husband and I make about equal salaries.

      3. Personally, about $120k, 80 of which is Rith (already taxed). Combined we are at about 300k with about 100 taxed already. Also have what is probably 60k in options at DH’s company

      4. Answered in #1, but we also have some real estate and harder to liquidate assets (hobby car, that sort of thing) worth maybe $100k. DH will also in the next 15 years receive a large inheritance that we will use to fully fund the kids’ college. Have about 10k set aside for that now but we are about 17 years away for that…
      5. 30k left, on DH’s grad school loans. Just refinanced to a killer rate. All told between grad and undergrad we had about 100k or so between us. We are 31/32.

      We are doing work on our new house this year so not quite ready to throw all our extra $ at the loans.

      1. I guess we also have our house which would get us out of $3500/mo of mortgage and net us 250k (what we have in it so market value less mortgage), if things got bad for the long haul. We could downsize.

  10. I’m looking for my unicorn. I had a pair of titlenine Eureka pants (will post in separate link) from 2013 and loved them. Not too tight, not too lose, ankle zippers, elastic/string waist. Wore like iron. Available in petite length, which I need. Went back to buy another and all the ratings said that that they were poor quality, fabric pilled easily. Tried them anyway and ended up sending them back in a month when they looked older than the 2+ YO pair. Similarly, got Brooks Running’s short version and same thing – poor quality.

    So I’m looking for a pair of knock-around, weekend walking with girlfriends, wearing around the house pants. I’m 5’3″ so a short length is necessary so as not to look ridiculous. Black (or dark grey), ankle zips, knit fabric. Want something that is going to last more than a few weeks. TIA!

    3. I wrote you a response with a link, but it hasn’t appeared yet. Look up Oiselle Track Attack Pants. They have a 28″ inseam. I don’t have these exact pants, but all the other stuff I have from Oiselle lasts forever.

    4. I have a pair of Boden track pants I bought at a sample sale and I love them. They’re more loungey than athletic, but you could wear them out of the house.

  11. 1. 5 months; goal is 12 by 2017
    2. No; no
    3. I don’t know. Obviously the amount is a little less, because it’s just me. Maybe it’s a little more, because I’m my only net. Maybe it’s a little less, because I’m the only one falling. But then again, maybe it’s a little more, because I’m saving an “I can jump if I need to” fund as much as a “something fell on me” fund, and I guess I probably wouldn’t just jump if I had a kid.
    4. 401k; HSA
    5. Yup. A freaking lot. And yes, I know that saving vs. paying is controversial. I’ve got a plan and I’m making a conscious decision while also paying more than minimums.

  12. Me again . . . for those of you with emergency savings, how do you factor in 1 month’s worth of emergency savings? Do you only take into account your immovable expenses (mortgage, car payment, utilities etc.) or do you also take into account your average monthly total spending (i.e. including going out to eat, entertainment, etc.)? Do you also take into account your student loan payments?

    1. I exclude studeng loan payments- I would defer them. I include some spending money- cable, some socializing, but exclude any new clothes or eating out.

    2. I just simplify and factor my monthly income into 1 month of emergency savings. That’s more than you need, obviously, because you can defer loans, cut back on unnecessary expenses, etc., but I’d rather have too much than too littler.

    3. I have a range for emergency savings. One the low end is the total of every payment I *have* to make in a given month. That would include rent, car payment, utilities. On the high end is my current average monthly total spending. That would include expenses that would likely be cut if I was in an emergency situation (or didn’t have a job) like eating out, tolls, clothes. So if my range is $3-5k a month and I have $30k in savings, I’d say I have 6-10 months of emergency savings.

    4. While it’s tempting to look at an emergency fund as only what you HAVE to pay — rent/mortgage, utilities etc. — bc logically you’d cut back on discretionary expenses like eating out, pare back your groceries to bare minimum etc. — I tend to look at it as my FULL month’s expenses as they stand right now and honestly even a few hundred dollars more than that. Reason being — if you were to lose a job — esp. while single — you’d have to pay for COBRA for health insurance (whereas married people can likely jump on a spouse’s plan). COBRA to continue the insurance you have can be pricey — often $500+ for one person. I realize now there are options with Obamacare, but I’m not sure offhand whether you’d have to wait for the next Obamacare open enrollment or whether you could sign up right away. And last I looked — decent Obamacare plans (Silver or higher) are cheaper than COBRA but not THAT cheap — in my state you’d only be able to save $200/month or so. All that talk about insurance for $25/month is not the types of insurance you’re used to carrying — it’s more for 18 yr olds in perfect health.

      1. $25 month insurance is probably people who are at 100% of the poverty line, based on income not age or health.

        1. My 26 yo BF, who makes $47k, has catastrophic plan insurance through Obamacare that costs $145 per month. Just as random price point for comparison.

          And just so you know, losing health insurance from a job counts as a qualifying event to sign up through healthcare.gov immediately.

      2. And you can sign up right away. Losing your health coverage qualifies you for a special enrollment period. No need to wait for open enrollment.

    5. We spend about $12k a month as a family between mortgage, child care, regular bills such as groceries and utilities, and discretionary spending. When I said I have 10 months’ of “frugal” emergency fund saved up, I am saying 10 months of $10K/month of expenses. That $10K will cover mortgage, child care, and other regular bills, but only some of the discretionary spending. We would have to cut back on vacations and eating out.

    6. Another thing is that being unemployed can have it’s own set of expenses if you need a new interview suit, dry cleaning, cabs, babysitters. Interviewing isn’t cheap.

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