Frugal Friday’s Workwear Report: High Society Style Knit Top

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.

This high-necked, keyole top from ModCloth comes in sizes XXS-4X, and I really like it. It’s not terribly trendy, and has an almost vintage vibe to it — but it’s still really appropriate for both conservative workplaces as well as business casual ones. It’s very easy for me to see this layered under a basic gray pantsuit for a dose of personality — or as the sedate topper to a colorful pair of pants, as shown here. The top is $35; there’s also a flare dress version of it for $65. High Society Style Knit Top in Noir

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  1. Anonymous :

    I didn’t know Modcloth made clothes in such a range of sizes. That’s really great to see. It reminds me that I was browsing the J Crew s!te the other day and some of their dresses/tops were available in up to like size 22! I guess they are trying to attract more shoppers.

  2. Anonymous :

    This neckline is the traditional qi pao one. Great for the smallbusted.

  3. Anonymous :

    Isn’t all of Modcloth a “vintage vibe”?

  4. Anonymous :

    I love this! I guess it’s not particularly trendy, but it’s not really not-trendy either… seems neutral and classic. I haven’t bought anything from them because I was worried about quality. Can anyone comment?

    • Quality seems pretty mixed on Modcloth. They don’t make the clothes themselves, they buy from other vendors. Modcloth is also owned by Walmart as of last year. I get ads for Modcloth all the time and frequently “almost” buy something, but am deterred by the comments on bad quality for a high price. But, maybe this one is good.

      • Me, too… I’ve lost count of how many things I’ve almost bought and then chickened out at the last minute.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        It seems like a lot of what you’re paying for on Modcloth is the curation — they don’t make the clothes, they just find the cute stuff from various manufacturers and assemble it so you can imagine it in a particular aesthetic. If there’s a particular brand they carry that you like (H3ll Bunny has a dress that’s been calling my name) you can stalk sales at other retailers.

      • Linda from HR :

        I used to buy from Modcloth all the time! I have some good stuff from them, but I also took full advantage of their liberal return policy and sent stuff back for store credit. They had such a good return policy, plenty of time to put the return in the mail, exchanges were free, and returns for store credit actually got you a $5 bonus. Maybe they still do, but I’ve made a point of never buying from Walmart since I was 14 and their labor practices bothered me, so when they essentially became ModCloth’s grandparent company, I immediately stopped buying from them, and unsubscribed from their emails.

        Don’t get me started on Unique Vintage’s shrinking return window (was 30 days, then 21 days, now it’s 14 days), no store credit, and $7 shipping fee for all returns.

    • I’ve had trouble with the length of dresses. Like hemlines were 6-8″ wrong, not just a little different than the ad.

      • But don’t they also list measurements for their dresses? I agree many of them run very, very short but I’ve found the measurements they give for length pretty accurate.

        • Yes, the measurements were listed, but the actual lengths were way, way, off. Like a fabric pooling on the floor, even though I’m tall.

    • Very mixed. I have some things from there that I love and wear all the time (a few sundresses and tshirts) but lots of stuff arrived and was just… not good. Poor construction/ill fitting/odd fabrics. I don’t have anything that I wear to work-it’s all casual. I suspect that that would be very hit or miss- even if the cut/design is work appropriate, a bad fabric or poor construction could make it unacceptable.

  5. Fancypants :

    Where does one find a garden party hat? Thinking something like Kate Middleton would wear.

    • Anonymous :


    • Anonymous :

      Condoms to go ;)

    • Anonymous :

      JJ’s House, one of those skeevy Chinese fashion sites. I think I landed there once while wedding shopping and was surprised that they had tons of those hats. Quality may be questionable, but they’re cheap.

    • Anonymous :

      Somewhere with a millinery department. Maybe a high-end department store.

    • If you happen to be in D.C., you can get them at the hat stands/carts near the food court in Pentagon City Mall. I bought one there a couple years ago for a horse race and got so many compliments. The prices are really reasonable, too.

    • I’ll put a plug in for Blair Nadeau Bridal- she used to focus on fascinators (it used to be called Blair Nadeau Millinery). She has a shop on Etsy. She is lovely and has made lots of pieces for me (jewellery) for my wedding.

      • nylon girl :

        Pippa and Pearl on Etsy. I got my hat from her for the Derby. Fascinator came in a little box that worked great for packing in suitcase.

    • KateMiddletown :

      Stein Mart/TJs, borrow from a friend, or I bought an awesome fascinator (fancy thing on a headband or clip) from Amazon – they have a ton for $10.

    • Samuel’s Hats in New York, Mr. Song in Detroit, Marilyn’s in Naples, Saks, Neiman’s, Net-a-Porter, or hunker down with wine and Etsy.

  6. Gov Ref check :

    I posted something similar a few weeks ago, but I have a specific question this time.
    Can someone walk me through the gov hiring/ ref check process? The agency asked for references and called them about two weeks ago. How long does it take to give a definitive offer or rejection? Should I be worried about the delay? Do agencies check refs for the person they want to hire or the top few?

    • Sounds like you’re in the final stages! My offer came a few weeks after the references were called. In my case (and as someone on the other side of hiring) is that it’s usually just for the final candidate as a way to verify that they don’t have any skeletons in the closet. Fingers crossed for you!

  7. Anonymous :

    Is anyone else not only saddened by, but also kind of freaked out by the deaths of Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain?
    I’ve dealt with anxiety and depression for most of my life and they both seem to be well under control now, and I’m achieving my goals, but seeing such successful, beloved figures give up the fight after so many years… it makes it all seem hopeless. Like it’s a fight that I will one day lose, inevitably, no matter how loved I am in my marriage, what I achieve in my career, or how diligent I am about keeping my demons at bay.
    I don’t mean to be a downer; overall I’m still optimistic. I’m just wondering if anyone else feels this way and how we’re all dealing with it.

    • Yes, it is very sad and striking. I read that Kate Spade had bipolar depression and I knew Anthony Bourdain had a long history of substance abuse in his past, which put each of them in a higher risk category.

      It reinforces to me how fragile we are when struggling with mental illness and substance abuse. And it reinforces to me how important it is that we stay hooked in with our support system and doctors if we suffer from these.

      And it is scariest, I think, for families of those with mental illness/substance abuse. We can’t control our loved ones, and we often see them declining before they see it themselves. Or they refuse treatment. Or they don’t realize they are sick. We do what we can, and we hope.

      And we make sure we continue to see our own therapists to help us cope.

    • “but seeing such successful, beloved figures give up the fight after so many years… it makes it all seem hopeless.”

      Even if that’s someone’s eventual cause of death, the years in between are worth it. My high school teacher had heart disease in his 30s. None of the men is his family had lived past 45. I wouldn’t have viewed it as hopeless if he fought that illness for 30 years only to succumb at 61. My grandmother died from diabetes complications. She had diabetes for 20 years and she was an amazing grandmother during that time. It eventually took her life but those years were worth living. Mental illness is no different.

      It’s worth it to keep fighting. Glad you are in a good place now.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        Calling out the same line… Can you, OP, imagine giving yourself credit for every [email protected] day (and week and month and year and decade) you’ve won this battle?

        • Thank you for this perspective. I do appreciate it. And it is worthwhile. But the thought of eventually succumbing to this particular end… it’s somehow especially bleak, like it’s a beast waiting in the wings for me, and it makes me scared for future hypothetical children and my partner. Though he has a heart condition, so who’s to say that’s not the beast waiting in the wings for him. Food for thought…

          • Anonymous :

            I mean I assume that I could die every day, any day, because I can. It could be a car accident, a freak medical condition I don’t know about, all sorts of things. But what’s the point in worrying about it past taking rational precautions? If you spend your waking hours worrying about what if, then you don’t spend time having fun and enjoying the moment.

            Before anyone gets on my case, mental illness runs in my family, I have been on anti-depressants for 20 years, in therapy on and off for that same time period, and suffered through debilitating anxiety attacks, and through all of the work I have done was able to come out with the above thought process because it allows me to enjoy my life NOW.

      • I really appreciate this perspective

    • TW: suicide/suicidal ideation

      I think that’s a big reason why celebrity suicides are so shocking – because so many of us struggle with anxiety and depression, but don’t take that final action. I think a lot of the shock is related to feeling like – they have so much/such an awesome life; yet they chose to commit suicide and yet the rest of us who struggle are still here. My friends and I talk about that a lot. We talked about it after Chris Cornell died. What is that final thing, that last thing that makes someone say, today is the day? Is it in impulse you give into maybe thinking it won’t work? If these people who are gone could do it over, would they make a different choice? It’s even harder when you look at someone’s Instagram and they have pictures from just days ago where they’re working, smiling, hugging loved ones. What changed so much between that day and today? What could have happened that quickly? It’s hard to get your mind around. I know very well that there’s a difference between what shows on the outside and what happens on the inside. But still.

      I have struggled with depression and suicidal thoughts on and off since I was a child. Like you, I sometimes feel like losing the battle is an inevitability. My grandfather committed suicide after struggling for years with alcoholism and then getting diagnosed with ALS. He didn’t want to live out his final days a prisoner in his own deteriorating body, and I get that. But the shock and the pain of his death is still hard to deal with, and what keeps me away from dark choices in hard moments is thinking about my family and how they would have to cope with the aftermath of my decision. Is a day coming where the pain I’m in will overwhelm my concern for them? That idea terrifies me.

      At the same time – we don’t have all the facts and we just don’t know what was going on inside Anthony’s head. I was shocked beyond belief when Robin Williams died, and was angry at him for committing suicide. But now, reading about his last months and how much he was struggling with his dementia – knowing he was losing his memory and his cognition, and also knowing he could do nothing about it – I get it, to an extent. Like my grandfather, he wasn’t willing to go out slowly, as a victim of his terminal illness. It doesn’t take away the pain they cause their loved ones, but I can’t say that if it comes down to it – if I get terminal cancer, or ALS, or Alzheimer’s – I won’t make the same choice. I don’t know. Empathy is probably the best lens to view these things through, regardless of the “reason” for the suicide.

    • I have a longer reply below, but yes, a lot of yes. A last minute therapy appt and leaving work early yes. It been a very rough/triggering week. Please take care of yourself as well. It’s rough when you have the voice in your ear on repeat.

    • In case anyone is reading this, also feeling freaked out, and thinking that maybe they could use some help coping. Hotline available 24/7 by phone at 1-800-273-8255 or text “home” to 741741.

  8. Anonymous :

    Anthony Bourdain suicide — what on earth is going on??

    • I know! I just saw this. I truly love Part Unknown and think he was a great cultural connector. I’m very upset by this! Besides Kate Space and my family putting down our dog this week (and me not being able to say goodbye), lots of emotional trauma!

      I am going to have the sads again this weekend. All the wine.

      • My family put our cat down this week too, and my sister’s boyfriend broke up with her. What a week! I’m so sorry about your dog.

        • Thank you–I still have _my_ dog, but the fam dog going suddenly made me so upset. (Of course I found out about right before I got on the T, so I was a sniveling crocodile tear mess on public transport–#winning). Sometimes life hits you hard.

          It does make me so upset to think that these supremely talented public personas (Kate Spade and Tony Bourdain) couldn’t feel how much love and admiration so many people had for them, and couldn’t go on.

          Sometimes I just want to cave up and not think about all the terrible in the world. Celebrity and dog deaths are just the tip of the iceberg and I do spiral a bit myself if I think too hard about all of this!

          • Just a gentle fyi: crocodile tears means false tears/insincerity, which I’m sure is not what you meant. (Thought you might want to know that so that when you are trying to tell people you are sincerely sad, they aren’t confused.) Sorry for your loss. x

    • Anonymous :

      So sad. A lot of the numbers measure from 1998 or 1999 – I don’t think it’s a coincidence that that’s when smart phones and social media upticked too. I think it’s a loss of community. It’s so sad because I am in the group that has had the highest increase (as I’m sure a lot of other readers are too – women aged 35 to 45), and it couldn’t be further from my mind. I have community at church, at work, etc. It makes me so sad that others don’t.

      • Don’t assume too much. Smart phones and social media have also helped people leave communities that were bad for their mental health and connect with healthier, more supportive people. There was also a lot of under-reporting in the past. If people are feeling more despair than they used to, my list of potential reasons would be pages long before I got to “it’s easier to text people now.”

      • Nah, a nostalgic, misremembering of the past is not helping here.

    • Anonymous :

      Inadequate mental health intervention and treatment.

      • Anonymous :


      • It’s a very, very tough situation. It’s difficult (as it should be) to involuntarily commit an adult. It’s a shame his family and friends weren’t able to convince him to seek treatment. It’s possible they didn’t realize how serious the situation was. It’s particularly sad since Anthony Bourdain had previously struggled with mental health and so should have been better able to recognize the signs that he needed help than someone being hit with a mental health crisis the first time around.

        • At what point do you stage an intervention?

          It’s like having a heroin addict or alcoholic — “I need for you to seek treatment now because I worry that I will wake up one morning and find you dead.” The story isn’t different, but because it’s normally a high-functioning (or much more so than an addict), there is a sense of what’s the rush / she doesn’t seem so bad / etc.

      • Yes. And “inadequate treatment” covers a lot. The medications we have are poorly understood and don’t work for everyone. Talk therapy is a work in progress (though some really great progress has been made), and good therapists often have long wait lists. There is concerning evidence that some of our most used meds can lead to worse outcomes long term for many of us just because of how many of our brains respond to being medicated. Meanwhile, funding to research has been cut, and the quality (and reliability) of too much of the research that remains is not good (you don’t have to be against psychiatry or have dumb ideas about “Big Pharma” to feel concerned about the things certain pharmaceutical companies have been legally convicted of). And even if the treatments we have will work for someone, first they need access. Nothing about this is simple or easy.

        • Lots of good points here.

          But be careful about your poorly referenced statement about the use of meds for behavioral health, which is incorrect and not associated with good clinical evidence.

          There is well established evidence that untreated anxiety and depression is very damaging to the brain, much more so than what you implying as possible side effect of the medication. Severe mental illness like that seen in those who commit suicide is in need of medication in the vast majority of cases. Psychotherapy and behavior modification cannot work fast enough in severe illness. Not treating mental illness leads to increasing resistance of disease to treatment over time and severity of illness can increase with age, and increases the incidence of dementia, sleep disorders, suicide and more, never mind the effect of the disease on the body.

          • I believe in medication; I would never substitute psychotherapy and behavior modification for medication. But there are medications that have increased the risk of suicide in some age groups. There are medications that were prescribed to people without mental illness who then experienced mental illness for the first time when quitting these medications. Not treating mental illness can lead to treatment resistance, but it is also possible to run through all the available meds and have all of them eventually stop working over the course of a few decades. It’s unfair for people to assume (as the person below has done) that someone who has committed suicide has not sought or received treatment. We could use more options than we have.

          • The data on increased risk of suicide on these medications is misleading and multifactorial and is NOT a clinically accepted reason for not treating with medication. This is critically important for people to understand, and granted, most doctors do not spend enough time talking about the medications and what these warning truly mean. But it is clear to me you are not a clinician or you would not post a statement like this without disclaimers.

            Your 3rd sentence is just…. ???? …. don’t know what you are referring to and is inappropriate without reference a doctor committing malpractice or an unethical clinical trial and is certainly not the norm (and are you a doctor speaking with knowledge about a patient “not having mental illness” and being inappropriately treated…. how in the world would you know this? Are you a psychiatrist?).

            Yes, it is true that some medications stop working over time, or must be changed in dose or class but this is a smaller proportion who tries “all of the available meds” over decades and “all of them stop working”. In fact, almost no patient tries all of the available meds over decades and fails all of them. Most do not revisit past meds when they should, or don’t try every med of every class. People’s genetics also vary and this contributes to medication responsiveness.

            Of course we need more options, and there are people doing a lot of research on this. But the main problem right now is simply recognizing the problem, societal acceptance, and affordable and accessible treatment. It was only with the Affordable Care Act that health insurance had to treat and cover mental illness like any other illness!

            Please do not spread skewed information when we have so many many many people and families resisting treatment when all they need are “data” (without data) like your post to reinforce their fears and skewed beliefs as an excuse for not getting treatment. Because I see this frequently. I really don’t understand the point of your post……

          • Anonymous :

            I guess the point is that if we keep serving the majority of patients, we’ll keep letting down the minority. And that may well be the right course of action given our resources, but I don’t like to see the people who are left behind also being blamed for it. I think this sensitive topic is getting to me, however, since as you say I’m not making as much sense as I could be (I was just talking about off-label prescribing, for example, not experimenting on people) or including disclaimers (such as increased suicide risk sometimes being a sign of a drug’s efficacy, since patients improved enough to take action, etc.). But I appreciate what 10:28 said about the people we could only help so much.

    • Anonymous :

      did he KNOW TOO MUCH? very suspicious. Same with KS… GRU/FSB?

      • Troll

      • I don’t really understand this comment, but he clearly knew a lot of things that would be heavy burdens for any decent person. I did wonder for a moment whether he had just enough in him to make it till now before he ran out of reserve strength, but that’s just how I would feel.

      • You’re probably a troll, but I appreciate the laugh.

    • Anonymous :

      He’s been public about the fact that he was suicidal after the end of his first marriage and Daily Mail published pictures that looked like his girlfriend with someone else so maybe he wasn’t able to cope this time round. To be clear, I do not mean to blame her in any way at all, I’m sure she’s quite affected by the news and the Daily Mail is often garbage. Just trying to point out that previous suicidal ideation is a big big risk factor.

    • Assuming no dire physical health problems like RW, I don’t get it. These folks have all the money in the world — too miserable to work, don’t; want a different job/business, go ahead; best doctors in the world; you don’t have friend and family support – your agent can make some calls and get you a group to be with you 24-7, all you have to do is cough up some vacations etc. They act like they’re regular folks with an awful 9-5 and worrying about whether therapist co pays are worth it.

      • Wtf? Addition and mental health issues affect EVERYONE regardless of money. You don’t magically get all better because you’re right.

      • Wow, no. That’s just not how mental illness works. Just stop, this crap isn’t helpful. Mental health is not achieved when your life gets to the right level of Great and bam, you’re immune from suffering. Your deeply flawed analysis assumes that mental health correlates with how objectively “good” your life is. Yes, the rich have more resources than most to seek help. But one of the awful aspects of mental illness is that it make it more difficult if not impossible for a person to get the help they need or make the changes they need to make. No one ever said that about a broken bone.

      • Aunt Jamesina :

        Mental illness doesn’t discriminate based on income.

      • Being successful is actually a barrier to seeking help when you need it, because you’re expected to have it all together and not need help/be struggling. It’s why every year high-paid professionals who have great healthy plans, paid leave and access to EAPs commit suicide – it’s not that they can’t access help, it’s that they fear accessing it will open them up to gossip and judgment. Comments like yours make successful people who are struggling not seek help because they fear being judged. I can’t change your mind, but I will tell you that you should do a little bit more thinking about others before you post things like this.

        • This.

        • Who would know or care? Fine don’t go seek care in NYC or London with celebrity photographers folllowing you and seeing you go into a hospital. But you honestly think a successful person even a celebrity can’t charter a plane and be flown to Stanford or UCSF or Mayo under the cover of darkness and be brought in thru a back hallway? Doctors treat VIPs all the time.

          • What makes you think this didn’t happen?

          • Why do you read the responses here and think that *doubling down* on your abject ignorance is the right response.

            It’s almost like people who are suffering from mental illness need to seek help/support from *family and friends* in addition to just medical professionals. Maybe those people would know?!?! Maybe? Can we just get a little critical thinking here, please?

        • I read that KS would not seek treatment b/c she was worried that would be seem as damaging to her brand (which is was herself, whether the company KS or her doing “Frances Valentine”). So there’s that.

          [OTOH, I wished she’d paused to think “how damaging would suicide be to my brand?” or “how would this damage my daughter?”]

          I heard something on NPR on bridge jumpers who survived and they all said how much they regretted jumping in the moment after they jumped. It’s all so sad.

      • Yeah, you unfortunately do not understand the cause of mental illness. Your lack of empathy is shocking, and tells me you haven’t had enough life experience to understand. Very sad, very dangerous to your friends and family, as I can only imagine what might come out of your mouth if they reveal their vulnerabilities or illness. Because you do have friends and family with mental illness, and may develop it yourself.

        I hope you keep your opinions to yourself, and do some reading about mental illness. That is, if you want to be a thoughtful member of the human race.

      • I hate you.

        • Huh? Over react much?

          • Anonymama :

            Nah, I also hate when people have that total lack of compassion and empathy for other people who are going through a difficult time, just because someone else always has it worse. I hate when people are dicks!

      • Do you have the experience of living your entire adult life with the running soundtrack of you’re not good enough, you’re a loser, why are you even trying, this won’t get better, sure it’s a moment of good but something will ruin it, why do you keep trying, this would be easier if you just didn’t have to, what’s the point, on and on and on and on. I’m 36 and this mantra has been in my head since I was 16. Medicine, therapy, it always comes back. You wouldn’t know this to see my life, you’d think why would she do that. But it’s what I live with. And the concern that one day one of the dumb reasons I have used to not kill myself before won’t be enough. Because honestly, the legitimate thoughts of, well who would take care of the dog/how long would he be alone, and ugh then people would see the disaster my house has become during this particular episode have stopped me. It’s a struggle, and there is a not small group of people struggling through it every day and keeping it together by shear force of will. Please have some freaking empathy and stop judging things you don’t know.

        And yes, to the poster above, this week has triggered me really badly as well. Today has left me on edge of tears at work and I am booking an emergency appt with a therapist and setting up some solid self care/coping plans for the weekend. Please, if you are like me, do the same. It’s rough out there.

        • Did you hear this outside of your head first and then internalize it? Or has it always just been this way?

          [Genuinely curious — nieces and nephews now have a stepmother that broke up their parents’ marriage and are actually hearing this and struggling very much.] They are about the age you said it started.

          • no, I actually always had a really supportive family. This is 100% the mental illness, and not something I hear outside of my own head. So, I think there is lots of hope that if they don’t have the illness piece, they can get through the external piece and turn it around. I still feel so terrible and have so much empathy for them though. regardless of where it comes from, no one should be told that.

          • If I may.. I am someone who used to have thoughts like Shananana. I also had a supportive family. Comfortable middle class upbringing, kind and well-educated parents. They loved me. I was never told that I wasn’t good enough. I was never told that I sucked or was lame or stupid or not [fill in the blank] enough. But I do believe that the messages I was sent about how a person should “be” and how life should be lived contributed to this line of thinking, in combination with being prone to depression and anxiety. It was almost the opposite- I was always told I was smart, talented, hardworking, a high achiever, personable, funny. Because I was. But part of the reason I was such a high achiever is because my family presented achieving and being smart and working hard and being the best at [whatever] as the path to worthiness and love. The implication was that if you were not “good,” then you were not enough and you were not worthy. So it created a fear even though the messages were always positive. The desire for approval drove me to work so hard (and realistic concerns like wanting security and a good job). And it also drove me to worry about it. It was eas(ier) to tolerate when I was succeeding. But once I started to “fail,” all of the sudden my entire self-worth was at stake. It’s not sustainable.

            I highly recommend Brene Brown’s work on this topic (shame/perfectionism). Game changer for me. I no longer wake up every morning telling myself I am fat, weak, stupid and lazy for pressing snooze. If you looked at me objectively and I told you I had those thoughts, it would blow your mind, unless you understood that mental health does not correlate to objective markers of success.

        • Hi, you have the same inner voice that I have. I only just started to consciously “hear” it – it’s been in the background of my head on loop for so long that it didn’t even stand out to me as unusual. What of Brene Brown’s works in particular do you recommend? Thank you

    • I know these are old celebrities but I’ve always wondered if suicides cause more suicides — that was very true at my college which has issues in this area. We had like a huge number of them my senior year and then it happened again with a big number in one year a few years ago.

      • This is happening in Native communities in Canada. The suicide rates among young people are shocking, and it seems like kids who kill themselves leads to more kids killing themselves.

        • Why do you think that is (suicides among natives)?

          IMO, where there is a lot of substance abuse (not necessarily always the case here), I’m never sure that what gets classified as accidental overdose deaths are not in fact suicides (and vice versa).

          • Substance abuse and suicide share common risk factors, so you should probably be asking why there’s a lot of both (if/when there is).

          • Anonymous :

            It is well established that substance abuse is associated with mental illness in a large proportion of cases. In fact, you can just add the two pools together because they co-mingle so often.

      • Aunt Jamesina :

        Suicides definitely have a contagion effect.

        • This. I know it was well-documented in the Palo Alto area (mid-Peninsula) when students started throwing themselves in front of CalTrains in the 2009-2016 period. Very contagious, and very sad. There’s a long Atlantic article on this:

          I didn’t even know until a few years later that one of the kids who died was a child I babysat while I was in college, years before. Devastating.

      • Yup. The fact that it was the exact same method definitely makes me think it wasn’t entirely unrelated.

      • Yes, and the ways in which it’s reported on/discussed can have a big influence. There has some really irresponsible journalism out of Folks Who Should Know Better after Kate Spade (looking at you, NYTimes). If you’re interested (or this may be relevant to your work), look at resources like:

    • NPR reported this yesterday…dramatic increase in suicides (CDC report):

      In some states, it’s over a 30% rise. I lost my brother in law in 2011. Please take care of yourself and each other.

      • I wonder how much of that is opioid-related.

        • Opioid deaths wouldn’t be suicides? There are lots of overdoses but I’m sure those are considered “accidental deaths” which is different than suicide, even if there is no one else involved. Pretty sure it has to be very clearly intentional to be classified as suicide.

        • Anonymous :

          opioids are just a vehicle for abuse. It really doesn’t matter which ones. If not opioids, today’s trend, people use alcohol or other recreational meds.

  9. Why do the morning posts seem so late these days? Why can’t they be scheduled for 7 or 8am when many of us get into work and have a few minutes to browse the web before the day gets crazy?

    • Anonymous :

      Posts were super late on the Moms site for a while too and posters complained and it’s better now.

      I suspect Kat is posting the first post later to do the second post later and encourage more west coast readers.

      • West coast reader here. I’m up at 4:30 to drink coffee. and beat traffic. I’m more than happy to read the early posts.

      • But I think that falls flat. The afternoon posts are often dead.

        I agree that posting the first post very early so the East coasters get started early, and shifting everything accordingly makes more sense.

        But I assumed the reason she doesn’t do it is that someone would need to be up that early reading/monitoring the posts on her end. Maybe she doesn’t want to be starting work at 7am?

        • If she is not auto scheduling posts, she’s doing it wrong.

          • Yeah, she should, but I think the monitoring of posts can’t be done on auto, unfortunately. People would complain even more if their post went to moderation and didn’t get posted for 2 hrs…

            But I think her crazy moderating process is the worst thing about her site, and is like nothing I have experienced on the internet.

          • The moderating wouldn’t be necessary if Kat, like basically everyone else on the internet who runs a s*te, would require account creation and login to post. People can maintain their basic anonymity and still create usernames and logins that would allow Kat to ban users/accounts, rather than having 50% of posts go into moderation. I have never understood why she doesn’t get Disqus or another commenting plugin and ditch the over-aggressive moderation.

          • Anonymous :

            If your IP addy is on the hit list, I don’t think it requires manual approval – it just sits there until it cycles through. That was Kat’s indication – once it’s in that box, it just cycles through the program, but what do I know.

            Also, how hard would it be to approve posts through the app on your phone. Oh, no curse words? Cool, approve.

            But then again, I am no blogger so what do I know.

  10. anonymous :

    To New Yorkers: my aunt, in her late 70s, passed away a few months ago. We’re looking to donate her clothes, as well as lots of personal toiletries: many unopened boxes of Depends, Poise, etc. I know about some of the places for higher-end, workwear, but can anyone recommend a place to donate the toiletries and casual clothing? Homeless shelters?

  11. Just wanted to say thank you to those who have plugged FitnessBlender over the years. I’ve been using their workouts for the past four months and feel SO MUCH STRONGER! I was quite active into my late 20s, then really let my fitness and diet slide over the last five years and felt really intimidated by getting back into working out– and I really hate the gym. Their videos are so approachable and I (mostly) enjoy working out now. Between FB and intermittent fasting (the only “diet” that works for this foodie gal), I’ve slowly built muscle mass and am chipping away at the 20 pounds I’ve gained without feeling deprived.

    • Congrats! Their videos are so great.

    • Legally Brunette :

      Yay! I have to thank this community for alerting me to Fitness Blender as well (and intermittent fasting too). The videos are free and encouraging and I love that I can do them in the comfort of my home. Noticed a huge difference in tone too. Highly recommend. I usually do a 30 minute workout a few days a week. I’m thrilled that I finally found something that I feel I will stick with for a long time.

      • Yes, being able to work out at home is so much better for me. I love not having to drive to and from the gym!

    • Shopaholic :

      Do you watch the videos as you go? I’m looking for something to take to the gym with me and think I would prefer an app or something so I can listen to music as I go but maybe fitness blender is the way to go.

      • There’s no music in their videos, so sometimes I play music at a low volume at the same time as the video.

      • You might want to try Apptiv- no video, just verbal coaching and music. I’ll admit that I have not used it much recently, though. I mostly used the cycling classes. I really like Fitness Blender, though, and I thank this group for recommending it!

  12. I’ve seen a few people mention taking classes outside of work and am interested in doing the same. Do you take night classes from local universities, online classes, or something else?

    • Anonymous :

      I took a graphic design course at my local college on the weekend. If you look for “extended education” or “continuing education” classes, you’ll find that they’re scheduled to accommodate people with full-time jobs.

      • Rainbow Hair :

        Wow! Can you tell me more about this? I’m getting back into drawing, slowly, but I’m intimidated by all the apps/tech that goes into commercial art, and I’d love to know more. Did you cover that kind of stuff?

    • I am taking two online courses this summer through my alma mater. Also taking advantage of my company’s generous tuition reimbursement policy.

    • I’ve taken classes given at a local high school. Highly depends on your location, but one of the high schools in my area has a School Night program.

    • I work at a university, so I can take classes for free and they don’t have to be at night, I can just leave to go to class and return to work (even if the class isn’t directly related to work). But my university (big state school) has lots of online classes for working professionals.

    • I used to live in Palo Alto and took a few great continuing Ed classes at Stanford — a short story course from Michael Krasny (of KQED Forum fame), and a few other history ones.

      I also really enjoy the Great Courses–they are on-demand, and I just love listening to their lectures when I take a walk. I love their history courses (particularly on Ancient Rome and Greece (anything by Harl), Britain (Alitt) and South America (Bartlett). They are low cost and extremely high quality. I enjoy listening rather than watching (they do have DVDs, but they’re not as well made). I did enjoy their DVDs of their Intro to Wine Course too–CA, Italy and France were very well done and you can taste along (they tell you what to buy).

      • I have a family member that also loves Great Courses. They have a really good assortment, and some of the lecturers are excellent. My relative listens to many of the science ones, and the current one is done by a Stanford Prof.

    • When I lived in Boston area, I took a wine education class at what was called the Cambridge Center for Adult Education. Local YMCAs and JCCs often have lifestyle type classes.

  13. My annual review is coming up, in the format of writing 90 words blurbs about my own accomplishments in the last year. I generally adhere to good resume writing, and I think I take it more seriously than most of my coworkers. I am unsure about whether to include certain things, and how I would do so.
    1. If the questions are all about reviewing last year, should I squeeze in promises for next year too?
    2. Since a coworker quit, I haven’t taken over her job duties persay, but I’ve tried to master the unique skill she was known for. Is there some way to word this?
    3. Much of my time this year was spent reading and researching background for my work. I had to do it, and it was written into my workplan. But how to I spin the lack of concrete product?

    • There may be a comment section where you talk about goals for next year. Are you going to review this formally with your manager? You should also discuss future goals in that meeting.
      Is there a “training/professional development” section? You can say that you did training for skills X and Y, and did a project related to skill Z. You don’t have to say that you learned those skills because your coworker left, but for your own professional development.
      Since researching was part of your workplan, I don’t think you don’t need to spin it at all. It was expected of you, so you did it. It will help you produce concrete work later on. You are now very knowledgeable in the subject because you spent so much time learning about it, which will ultimately benefit the company.

  14. What’s the best floor covering to put in a condo you’re planning to rent out? Ripping out the old gross carpet and want to replace it with something that looks decent and isn’t too expensive, but will be durable. I’m open to carpet or hard flooring, but don’t know where to start. I love the hardwoods in my own home, but that’s definitely more than I’m willing to invest in this property.

    • Is laminate wood an option? We had dark laminate wood in our last house and it was virtually indestructible, cleaned easily and held up with pets/kids. Do you have Lumber Liquidators or Floor and Decor near you to go look at samples?

      • Go for a high end vinyl – it looks like real wood flooring, comes in all difference colors, doesn’t have that hollow sound that laminate does when you walk on it AND is waterproof. I have vinyl thru my entire house and when people see pics of it I get a lot of “WOW your floors are great!” feedback. It can scratch, but the pieces are glued to the floor so you can take up a damaged piece and replace it with another (I haven’t had to do this, but that’s what my flooring company told me).
        Simple to clean, no worries about liquid spilling on it, stands up to heavy traffic…worth looking at imho.

        • +1 to all of this.

        • This is what is in my current apartment, and tbh you would have to pry it from my cold dead hands to switch to anything else. It is virtually indestructible by moving furniture, pets, or anything other than purposefully taking a knife to it. It also cleans like a dream, and you don’t have to worry about a tenant using the wrong product on it. We had to have some work done on the sub-floor, and the pieces came up and laid back down without any issues (or at least issues that I know about, but the contractor finished the work and got the floor down in two days). As a renter, I hate carpet because of the possibilities of stains, and even wood floors can get scratched over time. Tile is ok but can get cracked when you have movers coming in and out every year-ish which makes it look bad.

        • This sounds great; we need to replace the incredibly cheap laminate in our house. Can you recommend a brand?

          • Anonymous :

            I have Kardean Longboard LVP. It is gorgeous (mine is a gray reclaimed wood look) and I get tons of compliments on my “wood” floors. When move into the house, I accidentally dragged a sharp metal pole across it; to my surprise there was absolutely no damage.

        • Anonymous :

          +1. This is what we put in our rental units.

    • Definitely not carpet. Nobody wants carpet anymore, especially in a rental.

      • No Problem :

        I wouldn’t say nobody. I have hardwoods in my rental but have loved having carpet in the past because it is warmer and softer on my feet. I have to have rugs everywhere now to dampen sound (required in my state) and keep my feet from freezing in the winter. Hardwoods also means sweeping/cleaning hardwoods PLUS vacuuming the rugs, vs. just vacuuming everything.

        • OP will have to rip the carpet out every time a new renter moves in because it gets so gross. That’s why it’s so bad for rentals.

          • LOL you do not need to change the carpet every time somebody new moves in, that’s ridiculous.

          • Anonymous :

            Nah, everyone just has it cleaned, and if it’s destroyed you can recoup the cost partly through security deposit. To be honest, when you’re a landlord, carpet is usually the most affordable way to go. It doesn’t need to last as long as something more expensive for it to be worth it financially. For a rental property, you want it above all else to be about the $$$.

          • No Problem :

            No, you don’t have to rip it out every time. Most people don’t mess up their carpets so much that a good steam clean won’t fix it. And if they do, there goes their security deposit.

      • This. If you put carpet in, only put it in the bedrooms. Even then, as a renter, apartments with all-wood floors win out every time over wood and carpet.

      • Be careful with sweeping statement like ‘nobody wants” this or that.

        I happen to be a renter, and I want carpet. I’ll put up with hardwood, but that means I have to buy a lot of floor rugs to soften the floor, keep my feet warmer, and keep the spaces from feeling so sterile.

        • Okay, but you probably want fresh, clean carpet, that someone else hasn’t spilled things on. That’s not how rentals generally work unless you are the first renter, so it may still not be in your landlord’s best interests to provide carpeting.

          • I mean, you can clean carpet. As a renter, I would want clean carpet (no major stains, recently vaccummed), but I would not expect a LL to *replace* the carpet. That’s just a nutso expectation from a renter. Clean, yes. New, no. Those things are not mutually exclusive.

      • I prefer carpet everywhere except the kitchen (where it would obviously be super messy)! Hardwoods are SO difficult to keep looking clean and nice, especially if you have a pet. And I like how carpets feel on my feet.

        • Wow, I’m exactly the opposite. Never ever carpet again, wood and tile are so much easier to keep clean with pets.

        • Aunt Jamesina :

          Yeah, I think that hardwood can *show* dust more easily than carpet, especially if you have dark hardwood, but it’s objectively easier to actually get clean than carpet by a lot, especially when you have pets.

      • pugsnbourbon :

        +1. I am so happy that more hotels are remodeling to laminate or vinyl flooring.

        I vote laminate or vinyl, whichever one will be more durable. Your tenants can always add rugs.

    • Some laminate wood is OK looking.

      If you go the engineered hardwood route (way less $$ than solid oak or whatever), be mindful of the hardness of the wood or anyone who drops a fork will pierce the hardwood down to the engineered layer.

      Tile that looks like wood has been growing in popularity, too.

    • Wood-look ceramic tile (really, it’s amazing, esp in wet areas) or laminate. Laminate has come SO FAR from where it used to be. Bamboo’s an option, too, though the bamboo flooring in our house has badly faded from the sun (not sure if that would happen with any flooring, but it’s only a couple years old).

      • OP Anonymous :

        I’ve seen the wood-look tile around a lot lately! Meaning it seems to be the current trend on HGTV :) It seems like it’s really expensive though- is it worth it? Or is it actually not that expensive?

        • Aunt Jamesina :

          It’s ceramic, you can get it pretty inexpensively.

        • It’s not the tile that’s expensive, it’s the tile work. We did our giant bathroom for around 2K, for reference. It was really nice, but not sure I would bother with it for a rental. Obviously tile in the bathroom is best but for other areas what others recommended above would be cheaper and look just as nice.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      Engineered hardwood gives the look but at less expense.

      • Engineered hardwood is unfortunately not very durable.

      • +1 You can only refinish engineered hardwood floors a couple of times, so for the most part once they are dented/scratched/whatever they are staying that way.

  15. Mary Ann Singleton :

    Favorite audiobook recommendations for a long drive? I have an audio course in genetics (can recommend it – it’s from the Great Courses) but I’d like to mix it up with something relatively lighthearted or very riveting for the 16 hour drive. Here’s what I’ve enjoyed as audiobooks in the past:
    Bossypants (Fey)
    the Amy Poehler book I can’t remember the name of
    The Girl with All the Gifts (speaking of riveting)
    Big Little Lies (didn’t like the other one about the Husband’s Secret as much)

    • Mary Ann Singleton :

      Oh and I loved Americanah as an audiobook. That was probably the best one. (Can’t believe I forgot it on the list)

    • If you’re at all interested in podcasts, the Revolutions podcast is basically an audio history book. It’s really good.

      • Seconding Revolutions. My favorite podcast ever. The more seasons you listen to, the more patterns you recognize. This has really enhanced my analysis of current events as well.
        Based on recommendations here, I’ve also listened to the book Mastering the Art of Soviet Cooking, which was amazing.

    • The Help is a fantastic audiobook even if you’ve already read it.

    • Pale Girl Snorkeling :

      Anothony Bourdain read his own audiobooks and I found them riveting; Kitchen Confidential and Medium Raw.

      On a lighter side I really enjoy the Ruth Galloway mystery series by Elly Griffiths, first book is the Janus Stone. Ruth is a forsensic archeology professor who is asked by the police to consult on some bones they found. As the series progresses Ruth becomes a single mother while continuing her professor career

    • anon a mouse :

      Since you like Amy Poehler and Tina Fey, you might enjoy Mindy Kaling or Retta’s audiobooks — both very funny and read by the author.

    • Any audiobook by Jon Ronson – his books are excellent, and very engaging.

    • Something fun and light that I listened to recently was the three book series by Kevin Kwan – the first one is called “Crazy Rich Asians.” There’s nothing really thought provoking or intellectually stimulating about it, just a purely fun book that was different for me (I usually read/listen to mysteries)

    • Educated by Tara Westover. Best book I’ve read (well, listened to, in this case) this year.

    • Threadjacking off this, has anyone read Children of Blood & Bone? It was an impressive page turner and to think I used to scoff at YA books. It’s already been optioned to become a movie.

    • pugsnbourbon :

      There’s a companion book to The Girl with All the Gifts titled The Boy on the Bridge. I didn’t find it quite as good as TGWATG but it was satisfying, and it’s much longer.

  16. Musem Young Fellows programs :

    Has anyone joined any of the Young Fellow programs with the NYC museums or Central Park Conservancy? I’m new to the city and interested in making friends. I went a reception at the Morgan Library last night thanks to tickets from my employer, but I found most of the people there quite stuck-up. Just wondering if it’s going to be quite similar with the Young Fellow programs elsewhere. The two that I’m particularly interested in are the Apollo Circle at the Met and the Fricks Young Fellow, because the Met and the Frick are my favorite museums. But if it’s going to be the same circle of insufferable people it might be a waste of money to join.

    • Yes, it definitely will be the same circles of people at the Met and Frick programs. Perhaps even worse.

      What do you like to do?

      Whenever I move, I have lunch / drinks with everyone I know in that city and friends of friends to get “advice on living in this city….how to meet people… what do you like to do here/dislike”. These meetings are a great way to reconnect with people and they involve you asking lots of questions so the person you are with often has a good time talking. They often give you good ideas, and your nice friends often wind up introducing you to their friends and activities and social gatherings.

    • Any groups that have status-y ‘access’ associated with them are going to have that particular type of insufferable in spades. That doesn’t mean everyone there is insufferable, but it will attract that type. If you want intellectual but not stuck up, you’re going to have to look for groups that don’t have a steep price barrier to join, which means they won’t have posh receptions… if you’re into classical music, check out GroupMuse. There must be similar groups in the art world as well!

      I like to get involved in some groups that have insufferable barriers to entry and posh benefits, as well as other groups that have no barriers to entry but more laid back people, and try to balance it out.

  17. Rookie runner :

    I started (slowly) running a few months ago using the C25K program. I finished the program about a month ago and would like to increase both distance and speed, which are currently short and slow, respectively. I’ve been setting the treadmill to 5.1/5.2 and running for half an hour. Am I better off maintaining that pace for a longer time, or stepping up the pace and sticking with a half hour? Thanks in advance!

    • Intervals are a good way to increase speed. If you look up 5k training plans, you’ll usually find plans that include a slow run and some interval training mixed up weekly.

      • Agreed! Intervals are a great way to build speed. They don’t have to be formal or stressful–when I’m just starting intervals again after a break, I’ll do something as basic as “pick up the pace for a block, relax the pace on the next block” or “run more quickly for 30 seconds, 60 second jog,” or whatever.

        At some point, you will also want to explore longer runs–you’ll need both together to really see an increase in your running performance. Again, this does not have to be intimidating: maybe you start by dialing the pace back a notch or two so that you can complete 3.5 miles, then the next week you run 4.

        YMMV, but I’ll also put in a plug for seeing if your location has any community training programs for say, a 10k. It’s so much easier to work up to longer distances and faster paces with a supportive group around you, and most will include runners of all paces and experience levels (the ones for experienced/faster runners will clearly indicate this).

        Good luck and have fun!

    • Both, alternately. You might do an interval run as suggested above one day a week, one day a week maintain your current speed but run for a longer period of time, and a third run do what you’re doing now. Try that for a few weeks, see how you feel, and adjust.

    • Specificity is your friend. I’d plan for a couple of runs per week, working in a few minutes at a faster pace, say 5 minutes at your normal pace, 2 minutes a bit faster, repeat several times. You won’t get faster unless you actually spend some time running faster, but just cranking up your speed for the entire workout is going to be too much too quickly. If you do want to increase your endurance, once per week, run longer.

      There are three basic running workouts: the long run (long, slow distance), which is what you’re currently doing, the tempo run, and the interval workout. The latter two will help develop speed in different ways.

      Is there a local running club in your area? If so, they’re probably a wealth of information and you don’t need to be a speed-demon in order to fit in :-)

    • You also may want to check out the app Aaptiv. There are a lots of programs on there or just individual workouts where a coach narrates the intervals (but there is music most of the time, they just tell you when to speed up/recover). I really had a good experience increasing speed with those.

    • Tessa Karlov :

      I’d work on distance first, steadily increasing that means that stamina builds up, and speed comes later. Source: I ran in college.

  18. I work at a ginormous state U and take classes there. Policy states that we can take up to 3 hours during normal work hours, and we must make up the time. There are a few courses offered after 5PM, and I’ve taken some of those as well. I prefer to take an 8AM class and work through my lunch break on those days. Sometimes I’ll take leave the day before a big test and my bosses have always been very accommodating.

    I only have my own anecdata, but I find that classes during “normal” hours are more rigorous here. It does gel with the general culture here that only really gives the time of day to full-time students who don’t work (or work traditional on campus work study jobs).

    I’ve also taken some on-line offerings, which aren’t quite as attractive to me, since we have to pay the distance fee. Again, those classes haven’t been as rigorous as the in-person offerings.

  19. No comments about the Ontario election? My whole office is devastated today

    • Hey fellow Ontario ‘rette. My riding went NDP (yay) but on the whole it’s very sad and sickening that Trump Jr is in power now.

      Also it never fails to astound me that people think an unqualified relative of a politician can be a politician in their own right. Just, why?? Being related to a politician is not a thing. I can’t say my uncle is a doctor so I get to operate.

    • Ugh I’m in damn mod. Devastated here as well.

    • My whole office is devastated as well. So am I. I didn’t comment because I really don’t know what to say. I talked about the election so much in the past 4 weeks, which had a purpose of changing minds and changing the outcome, but now talking about it seems like futile sour grapes.

    • Never too many shoes... :

      Yup. Not even sure what to say apart from that I truly hoped we were better than this.

      I know a Premier is not a President and we do not raise up our politicians to demi-god status, but it still makes me feel ill to think of Doug Ford and his red-faced, who cares about the facts bluster as the head of the provincial government.

    • What’s Ontario? I mean, give us some background and we will care. Why vaguebook this?

      • Hey troll. Look at a map. She’s not vaguebooking. She’s talking about the Ontario election that happened yesterday and was a major event in Canada.

        • Anons Against Trolls :

          You don’t know that a troll is apparently. It is a reasonable request to ask for reasonable detail on a post other than “Oh no, X location!”. A troll is someone looking to stir up trouble. Just because you’re pissed about whatever this morning doesn’t mean someone seeking for clarification is a troll. And surprise! Non American-rettes complain about point of reference being to U.S. centric on this board, but then you’re surprised the Non-Canadian-rettes don’t know what going on in a specific province? GTFO

          • I would hope that Americans would at least know what an Ontario is.

          • Anonymous :

            I assumed it was one of our alt-right trolls (“what’s the big deal?”), but maybe that’s only because I already knew what the OP was posting about!

          • Anonymous :

            I took it to mean “what’s up in Ontario”?

            But it could be otherwise…

            A lot of sensitive Canadians today!

        • Not necessary to be so harsh. This is a US blog and we are inundated with news these days and with all of the local/state elections going on here as well, it is not surprising that we are not up to date on an election in Ontario, Canada.

          She is not a troll, as I was wondering the same thing, and looked it up online. But I agree with her… why not post one sentence about the result so the rest of us understand.

          • Ok, now knowing the details about an election I understand, but “What’s Ontario?” Seriously??!! There’s a reason why the USA has a stereotype of being ignorant…

          • Anonymous :

            Yeah, if that was a genuine question, it was really poorly worded.

      • A populist conservative won in Canada. A Trump bro, if you will.

        It isn’t just the US that has plunged. The trend is across the Western world, unfortunately…..

      • Seriously “what’s Ontario?”??!!

        Being engaged in things that happen outside your bubble (in the world!) is a good thing. Try it sometime.

        • +1 – I get that those outside Ontario or Canada might not know the specifics of the players (like me), but there was enough context to realize that there was a Canadian election that probably didn’t go as expected (my interpretation based on context). At which point, one could do some googling to figure out more information (if interested, which I don’t have time to be today).

      • Laughing my head off at “What’s Ontario?”. I can’t wait to comment on the next q about appropriate clothes for some specific region of the US with like, “What’s New England? Never heard of it. Maybe wear a pastel blazer, the Queen seems to like those?”

    • I fully admit this is a terrible thing to feel/say. But if people are so determined to vote against their interests, maybe we should just let them. The rural/suburb areas overwhelmingly voted PC while most of the urban areas voted NDP.

      I know there’s public interest in having a well-educated and healthy population that is not making climate change worse.

      And I am upset about it. It’s a bad result for progressive politics, for the under-privileged, for people who work a minimum wage, for kids who won’t be learning consent-based s3x education, for the environment. But if he actually cuts taxes, I’ll benefit. So I feel like I was voting for a government that would increase my taxes for more social good, but less benefit to me to the short term.

      Or alternatively, can we separate? I’m tired of all my tax dollars being used against me. Toronto probably has the highest incomes per capita and voted overwhelmingly to benefit the province.

      I guess I’m just upset and frustrated.

      • Sure, that’s an okay idea to have if you’re privileged and relatively protected from the damage that ensues. If you care about other people though, it’s pretty [email protected]

        • Anonymous :

          Oh I fully agree. I am upset about the outcome of the election.

          I guess there’s just a part of me that feels – I care enough about other people in the province I live in to vote for the party that will expand social services. Why don’t those people care enough about their own interests to not vote for an obnoxious blowhard?

          The same can apply for people in the US that voted for Trump but now are upset that his trade policy is imposing tariffs that harm them.

        • Anonymous :

          I tried to respond but it looks like it disappeared.

          My point essentially was – 100% ya it’s crappy. And I do care about other people which is why I’m upset about the outcome of the election.

          I guess it’s similar to those in the US who voted for Trump and now are upset about his trade policy and the fact that tariffs are going to impact them – I have empathy for that but also, he said he was going to do this and you still voted for him…

      • What do you mean “let them”. I know you weren’t seriously considering disenfranchising people you disagree with because you believe you know their own interest better than they do.

    • So bummed. Not surprised – a majority was inevitable. But so bummed and concerned for the impact on the most vulnerable people in our province (especially people struggling to survive on ODSP already).

  20. Interview attire question :

    Hi all! I’m in mid-level lit associate in BigLaw in NYC interviewing for lateral positions in San Francisco (both at other large firms and at smaller firms). I haven’t interviewed in years. I feel more comfortable in pants suits than skirt suits; is a pant suit fine? My options are black pant suit, navy pant suit, navy skirt suit, grey skirt suit. Also, my plan is to wear a silk or poly blouse in a conservative print (paisley, stripes, etc.) in a relatively muted but non-neutral color (green, purple, etc.). Sound right? I’m trying to look professional but not too East Coast or too straight out of school… my guess is that a black suit with starched white blouse and hose – my on campus interview uniform – would be too stuffy/junior.

    • Pant suits are fine, and your top choice also sounds fine to me.

    • Pant suits 100% fine, but no one will think its weird if you’re in a skirt suit. Top choice also sounds good. As an East Coast transplant to SF – California casual is definitely a thing, but not in an interview. Good luck!

  21. Possible New Job :

    Hi! I’m an in-house attorney who recently got asked to interview for a position with the business side of the company in an operations position. My law degree would still be useful, but I wouldn’t actually be “practicing law” like I do now. However, it sounds like a good opportunity that plays to my strengths – project management, organizational change, training, etc.

    Has anyone in the hive made this move? Did you regret “leaving” law? Were you able to transition back to an in-house law position if you wanted?

    • You need to be very strategic about managing your own career. I’ve rarely seen people come back once they go to the business side. Doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea, just means be intentional about it. Do you want to be a business person? Or do you like being a lawyer? Because you won’t be a lawyer anymore at your company and it might be hard to be one again.

      • Interestingly, two companies where I have worked on the business side (strategically) have asked if I want to come back over to the legal side. I definitely do not. I find the business side so much more enriching because it allows me to be more involved in the business and business decisions than I was ever able to in an attorney capacity.

        I’m no longer the bad guy who always says no. People reach out to me for business advice, and I love it. I was a business major and worked in sports marketing before I went to law school, so perhaps that has something to do with it. I always knew I wanted to be involved in business somehow And I very much use the skills I learned as a practicing attorney.

        • This is very encouraging, thank you! I never really thought of myself as a “businesswoman,” always as an “attorney.” I am very interested in pursuing the position and have accepted the interview to find out more. Perhaps it’s just about reframing the career narrative I created for myself in my own head.

    • I’ve never been an attorney, but my spouse is one, and I’m on the business side. FWIW (and not sure how much that is), in my observation, people on the business side have more career flexibility. It’s a less rigid, hierarchical field than law in general. You could take the operations experience and go work for a start up, for instance, if that appeals to you.
      Does it hurt to interview?

    • Law to HR :

      I did this thing exactly, and never looked back! It was exactly the right thing for me (in-house lawyer to the company’s HR team). HR is a much better personality fit for me than law ever was, even though I miss some aspects sometimes. I’ve now moved on to a HR director role at a different organization, where my legal background is called upon, but I don’t have to practice law.

      For me, as with a lot of people leaving law, the hardest part was no longer identifying as a practicing lawyer, which can feel like a big deal. Ultimately, though, having a day-to-day job that feels like the right fit (assuming this is that for you) will make you so much happier. Good luck!

  22. Gift ideas for a high school graduate, going to university in Canada?

    • Does the fact that she’s going to school in Canada make her any different from any other high school graduate? She will have to commute by moose but other than that we’re exactly the same. Give her cash.

      • LOL

      • You forgot the igloo, and the maple syrup diet! Bur seriously UofT, McGill, Queens, etc are some of the best schools in the WORLD, its funny that Americans have so much disdain for them.

        • It’s just funny to me that OP says “going to university in Canada” like it’s this tiny, strange place and not the second biggest country in the world and one of the US’s biggest allies (well, maybe not anymore) with a hugely diverse population.

          • I think you guys are missing the point.

            People ask this question all the time, and often specify the state or university the graduate is going to. Because sometimes people like to give gifts relevant to where they are going.

            I give a gift card to a favorite store/restaurant etc.. in the vicinity of the university they are going to.

            Why be so harsh you guys?

          • Anon OP here.

            Huh, I didn’t say it like that…..

        • You’re kidding, right? Disdain?

          Most Americans just don’t know about them because we have literally thousands of universities that we are trying to sort through, most people stay close to home for college and are just trying to figure out how to pay for it. Many grants/scholarships/government loans are only for american universities. Many people get jobs close to where they went to college and make important connections there, and since most people want to live/work at least in the same country where they grew up, they tend to go to college there.

          Only the richer/highly educated tend to look outside the US for college.

          And Canada is not very welcoming of American immigrants unless with give you half a million dollars to invest, you know?

        • Disdain? What are you talking about? Gosh Canadians are so sensitive.

        • What are you getting disdain from?

        • FWIW, there were tons of Americans when I was at McGill, because even with international tuition, it was less expensive than high-quality schools in the US.

          We are not a monolith up here – it’s a pretty big country, so it just sounds ridiculous to Canadians when you say something like going to school in Canada when we have like 5 time zones and so many different climates depending on where exactly you are.

          The comparable would be – I’m going to the school in the States. What should I take with me?

          • THIS.

            Also, see discussion of “what’s Ontario” above.

            Which region in Canada, so that the recs are regionally-appropriate? (Coastal: raincoat, umbrella; Ontario/Quebec: mittens, scarf; Prairies: Parka rated to -40)

          • Anonymous :

            Those going to McGill from the US are likely from an ultra-educated wealthy elite. This is not the typical American.

            US high school counselors / folks that help with choosing colleges do not refer you to Canadian schools.

          • Equestrian Attorney :

            Yeah I went to McGill too and there were a ton of Americans there. And it’s funny that you would assume they are a “wealthy elite” considering tuition at McGill ranged for 6-10k (Canadian!) a year. Most Americans were there for the top-notch education for less than half what they would pay in the US.
            And given the “what’s Ontario” comment above and the inherent weirdness of this comment (Canada is large and diverse!), I think Canadians are a little peeved today. And yes, this is a US site, but there clearly are a lot of readers from others places too, and no reason to include them in the discussion as well.

        • Excuse you? Nobody is disdainful of Canadian schools. Get over yourself.

      • It’s relevant. Target gift card is a super standard high school graduation gift, but as noted below there’s no Target in Canada! So I think it’s a reasonable question for OP to ask. I don’t think she was implying any disdain for Canadian universities.

        • +1

        • Just to follow on to this, most gift cards that are purchased in the US won’t work in Canada, and vice versa. Even if the same store brand does exist in both countries. They are almost always separate legal entities.

      • OP here.

        I am in the States, as is she, so getting something shipped from her university (sweatshirts, pennants, etc.) would be challenging.

        My apologies for offending.

        • Never too many shoes... :

          There was nothing at all offensive about your post, OP – and I am Canadian.

        • Agreed, deep breaths everybody. If a non-American asked for advice about a friend going to college in the US, there is absolutely advice we could provide. Could we better target that advice if we knew the city/state/college? Of course. But there is nothing offensive about the question.

        • You have nothing to apologize for. That reaction was overblown. It was perfectly reasonable to ask for suggestions, as pointed out above, some gift cards might not be useful outside the US.

          To actually answer your question: A good gift could be a college care package with coffee, a soft throw blanket, a travel mug, or something for her dorm. A large stylish tote to carry her books/laptop would also be a great gift.

      • “Does the fact that she’s going to school in Canada make her any different from any other high school graduate? She will have to commute by moose but other than that we’re exactly the same. Give her cash.”

        Canadian dollars or US dollars? (Raises eyebrows)

        I was also under the impression that when kids travel far to university, they take fewer things with them.

        There are completely benign reasons why I would state that she is going to school in another country. There aren’t many benign reasons for being nasty to me for saying it.

      • Yes, it matters, it’s a different country. You’re acting ignorant simply because most people speak English and it’s a neighboring country. Canada has a different culture, different systems, different currencies, different stores and products available, and largely different weather, unless you’re talking about the northern parts of the U.S.

    • Some kind of small home state themed gift might be a good accompaniment to cash or gift card. Cash might be better because she(?) will be in Canada, but I’m sure something like a Target card would still be fine.
      My niece got a small canvas with her home state on it for graduation that she liked enough to display in her dorm room. Maybe check Etsy for something like that?

      • There’s no Target in Canada.

        • Ah, another good reason for the OP to ask this question. I usually give graduates a Target gift card, since that is one of the most popular places kids buy stuff for their dorm rooms.

          Glad someone is trying to be helpful.

          Canadians…. ;)

        • Aunt Jamesina :

          Plus gift cards to chains often don’t work at the same chain in another country! Although a big Tim Horton’s gift card would go over nicely with me (just either purchase it on the Canadian site or make sure you can use it in Canada) :-)

    • Never too many shoes... :

      If she is coming from a warm place, perhaps some cool mittens and a hat or sweater…or a Roots gift certificate.

    • Rainbow Hair :

      OK but counterpoint! I went from [hot weather location] for high school to [one of those Canadian schools mentioned above] and I literally did not know what to do about weather. (I guess my friend who went to Cornell had the same struggles, but) the fact that it was Canada *was* kind of relevant. I missed a ton of class my first year because I didn’t know the difference between a fashion coat and a real coat. So uh, give her a coat? Timmies gift certificate? A toque?

      • Rainbow Hair :

        Oh, what Never Too Many said.

      • I think a coat would be great if OP is willing to spend the necessary money to get a good weather-proof one. Timmies card is a good idea too as they are on every campus and open at all hours.

        • Rainbow Hair :

          What finally got me to class was one of those dealies where you have the poofy layer and the waterproof layer and you can wear them separately or together depending on the weather. That and learning how to wear a scarf.

      • Anonymous :

        Ha. I’m from Florida and remember getting to college (in a not-that-cold location) and asking my roommate, who was from Ann Arbor, how to tie a scarf. Also, during my freshman year, I wore flip flops in the snow.

    • Also Canada is huge. Warm mitts would be useful in Ontario/Quebec, perhaps less useful in balmy Vancouver. So maybe more specificity is a good thing?

  23. How would you have responded – I’m not happy with my job but I also don’t discuss/complain to friends; those close to me just know. My view on it — it’s not what I want/like but I’m in a tight industry and this pays good money so it’s worth it to me for now to hang in there.

    Started talking to a good friend and somehow we talk about a common friend who started his own practice and she goes on about how I should talk with him to get into his business, he and I would be good business partners etc. I’m like – not interested, it won’t pay what I want. Then she goes on for a half hr or more about how it doesn’t matter, I could make out better in the long run and even if I didn’t NBD I’m not a big spender. She just wasn’t getting that my view is — make $$ while you have the opportunities, max out the retirement savings early etc. because then when you’re 45 or 50 – you just may not have the same opportunities, you could walk away with your savings and start a business etc. She would not let it go and it took all I had not to blurt out — just because you left a 200k job for a 75k non profit, doesn’t mean I’ll do it. What would you have said??

    • I would have said your point of view. Why not put that out there? It’s another way of looking at things. You both may value different things but she won’t understand you if you don’t talk.

      • Yes exactly. “I’m not interested in taking a pay cut.” And if she keeps prattling on “I appreciate the thought, but I’m not interested. Let’s change the subject. “

        • I did say I wasn’t interested in a pay cut — that led to a whole thing about why it’s NBD, I don’t know it would be a cut (yes I do because I know what I make and that not how solos pay), I could make more in the long run (uh – time value of money)? She just would not stop!

          • “ let’s move on.” “I don’t want to talk about this anymore.” “K I’m calling it a night!”

    • I probably would have said “Could we talk about something else? I saw RBG over the weekend and really loved it. Have you seen it?” or similar.

    • While I think it’s crass to talk about money, I don’t have a problem being rude when someone else is. I would have no problem saying – less than 200k is a non starter for me, even if it’s fine for your lifestyle.

      And as an aside I feel like women are always telling other women that pay cuts are NBD and are an “opportunity.” Am I the only one who thinks a guy would say to another guy – you want to give up 200k for 64k and some unspecified future opportunity, lol no. I mean I guess people do it in the start up world but it sounds like you’re in an established field.

  24. Thoughts on straight leg jeans? Passing fad or here to stay?

    Thinking of getting a pair, but don’t want to invest in something that is going out of style. Would be for both weekends and work.

    • I think straight leg jeans are classic and neutral, as long as the fit is neither too tight nor too loose. It is the most flattering shape of jean on some body shapes, so it will be around in different variations always. The best thing to do is to stay on trend with respect to wash and color, but stick with the shape.

      • The rise will have a lot to do with how “classic” they look. Stick with a mid rise for maximum trendproofing.

  25. I need advice on sleeve lengths for blazers and jackets. Whenever I have them hemmed to the “correct” length, it feels like my sleeves pull really far up when I move and bend my arms. If a sleeve is the right length when moving, it’s far too long when my arm is at rest. Is there an obvious solution I’m missing here – should I have them tailored somewhere in the middle? Or is this actually caused by another aspect of the blazer fit? Thanks in advance!

    • Too tight in the shoulders? Just a bad cit for your frame?

    • For me, it’s because the shoulders/upper back is too narrow for my frame. Sometimes I take the padding out of the shoulders to make more room there, but it’s definitely hard to find a blazer that fits me well.

    • Anonymous :

      I have that too, and reading the other comments, I now realize that it may not happen to everyone and be due to my broad shoulders.

      I personally don’t like having fabric on my wrists, so I tailor to just below wrist bone and live with higher sleeves when my arms are bent.

  26. Thank you to the commenter who recommended Dr Jart+ Premium B.B. cream when I posted about my beloved Dior Nudeskin B.B. in shade 001 (ghostly pink) being discontinued.

    I tried lots of substitute B.B samples, but the Dr Jart is the one. The Light/Medium is a pretty good match for my skin when it goes on, it unfortunately oxidizes a bit darker, but not so dark it looks weird or orange. It gives a bit more coverage than the Dior and the SPF is much higher, so it’s a winner. Thanks again!

  27. re: Anthony Bourdain and Kate Spade:

    I’m a suicide attempt survivor.

    If you are struggling today or any day and you need someone to talk to, email me at my name below at the mail of G. Your email won’t be an imposition. It won’t be unwelcome. I want you to reach out if you need help. I’ve posted my contact info before relating to other mental health issues, and people from this site have reached out, so you wouldn’t be the first person.

    I want to associate my “real” identity (in terms of this site) with this post because I’m not ashamed of my struggles with mental health. I’m proud that I’m still here and getting healthier every day. If you’re still here even though this disease is telling you to give up every day – I’m proud of you too.

    • I’m proud of you too and so glad you’re here!

    • Thank you for this. My brother has struggled with this in the past, and I know he had difficulty in reaching out to talk about it. Thanks for being available for anyone who needs to talk.

    • Thank you for sharing.

      I’ve had suicidal thoughts three times in my life. The most recent time, I scared myself and I got help. I went to my PCP and asked for an anti-depressant, even though my therapist had said, “Eh, anti-depressants don’t work and you don’t seem like you need one” and the nurse at the doctor’s office said, “But did you actually try to do it? It doesn’t mean much if you didn’t try or gather supplies. Everyone has general thoughts about it.” UM NO. Please, please, if you’re reading this and struggling, be your own advocate. The thoughts aren’t ok, you can feel better, and there is help out there. Anti-depressants have changed my life, and at 36 years old, I am finally not fighting a mental battle with myself. There is hope.

    • Thank you so much cbackson. You are one of the most valuable members of this community and I feel like you have contributed so much over the years, but this is certainly your bravest and most helpful post. So glad you survived and are getting better. Hugs.

    • Betterandbetter :

      Thank you for sharing. I grew up being aware that there were multiple suicide attempts in my family (including my mother-that one so was in the house for) and several successful ones and even when I was younger I never thought it was a weird decision. It seemed like a perfectly reasonable response when life often seemed so hard and meaningless. Like others have said empathy has kept me here when it’s felt especially hard or especially pointless. So now, therapy, meds, deep relationships help me drown out the “life is meaningless and full of pain” with other thoughts like “X is so interesting.” “I really want to see how asoiaf turns out (get it together GRRM!)” And ” I’d hate to quit before the miracle happens.” And to those who don’t experience this- this may not seem like much consolation but it’s as good as it gets and as long as I am still walking around hoping that things get better it seems to be good enough. Whatever works, a day at a time, sometimes a minute at a time.

    • Blonde Lawyer :

      Thank you.

    • nasty woman :

      Thanks so much for posting this. I’m impressed and moved by your courage.

  28. Makeup question: what do you do when your makeup pills up? I used a new sunscreen today and apparently it does not layer well with my tinted foundation (Hourglass), and little balls immediately started forming all over my face. Is there a trick to remove them? Or do you just have to take off your makeup and start over?

    • Unfortunately it just means those two products don’t play well together. Usually it is because there are multiple silicons in the products which results in the little pills

      • Wow – thanks for this. I thought the pills were bits of skin debris and I needed to exfoliate mechanically more or something…. Thanks.

      • lawsuited :

        +1 The Hourglass Skin Tint has dimethicone in it which prevents it from being absorbed by the skin. If you’re using a heavy moisturizer or another product containing silicone before the skin tint, it’ll have an even harder time staying on your skin and ball up.

  29. It seems like the blazers fit correctly otherwise. The shoulder seam is in the right place, not too snug across my back, etc. Logically, it seems like sleeve length should be a simple thing, but… apparently not for me!

    • Diana Barry :

      I prefer my sleeves to be longer than the “correct” length – I’d rather have them feel long when I am standing up than short *all the rest of the time*. Plus I get cold! You are not alone. :)

    • How about the armhole? This can be cause by armhole being too low.

  30. My husband and our seventh-grader just do not like each other. He is forever trying to figure out ways to send her away for the weekend or part of the summer, and talking about how great it will be when she goes off to college (never in front of her). She complains that he spends all their time together either ignoring her while playing on his phone, or lecturing her on topics she finds uninteresting. She often tells me that she wishes he would go away on a trip or that she likes it best when it’s just the two of us together. She also says that he is mean and cares only about his own feelings, never hers. This has been going on for two or three years now, and I just don’t get it. He dutifully takes care of drop-offs and pick-ups and solo parents while I travel once a month or so. When she was younger he absolutely doted on her. He still wants to invest time and money in giving her experiences and things that she will enjoy or that will benefit her. But he doesn’t actually like interacting with her, views her as disrespectful because she gets tired of listening to his lectures, tells her that her feelings are invalid when he doesn’t agree with them, is unwilling to engage in shared activities that interest her, and generally views her as an impediment to his freedom. It makes me feel as if he regrets the entire life we chose to build together. I have tried giving him books on the psychology of teen girls and suggesting activities over which they could bond, but nothing seems to help. Has anyone else encountered this phenomenon with dads and tween/teen daughters?

    • No specific advice, but please remind him that HE is the adult in this situation. He can’t expect his kid to act more maturely than him, and he can’t put it on her to ensure that they have a good relationship.

      He can require that she be respectful, obey the rules of the house (curfews, chores, no shouting, homework, etc.), but not put it on her to foster their relationship.

    • Oh, this is awful. He has to be the parent and adult here.

      I am so sad for your daughter, who feels rejected by her father. It is truly that serious. I honestly don’t see anything wrong with her behavior, and he sounds immature and uncaring. And you think he doesn’t say around her that he can’t wait for her to go to college, but I guarantee you that she has heard him say this at some point and KNOWS. He has to absolutely stop this. The effects are truly damaging already.

      The childhood years are so important. Your husband is the model man in her life, and your relationship with him is the model for her future relationships with men. This is bad….

    • I feel that my father probably had difficulty understanding how to relate to me, but he was never really that bad. I wonder if it would be helpful to take him to a parenting class/therapy.

    • This is just horrible. I grew up with a father like this and we had a really terrible relationship for a while. It’s gotten better now (ironically (?) me having a baby healed things a lot, because he adores his baby granddaughter and really dotes on her and I feel like I’m getting to see him be the father I wish I’d had – although I do worry that when she becomes a tween they’ll have the same issues we did). Honestly I would probably force your husband into counseling over this. It is so, so damaging and it really sounds like your daughter is being a normal tween and your husband needs to grow up and be a normal parent.

    • anon for this :

      Your husband was my stepmother. She never said overtly that she didn’t like me or didn’t want me around, but it was crystal clear from her actions and her lack of attempts to forge a genuine relationship. It sounds like your daughter is young enough that there’s still time to salvage the relationship.

      For him: counseling or parenting workshops. Possibly together. It’s easier when a child is young and (more or less) just needs to be fed and told what to do. It’s a lot harder when they turn into mini adults and have individual interests and opinions.

      How is he in his other relationships? Does he lecture you instead of listening to you? Is he used to getting his way in a disagreement? Does he know how to have a conversation with people that he doesn’t agree with? I agree so hard with the comment that this will inform your daughter’s framework for how to interact with men, but also she will look at the way you interact with him to inform her how a wife/mother should act.

      Hugs, this sounds so hard and frustrating for everyone involved.

      • Tween mom :

        He definitely has trouble seeing things from anyone else’s perspective. He thinks he should always get his way because he is always right. He is quick to tell me about his feelings and needs so that I can “correct” my behavior to make him happy, but when anyone else has feelings or needs he dismisses them because they don’t make logical sense to him and must therefore be unfounded. He wasn’t always this way; he became like this five or six years ago, two or three years before he really started having issues with our daughter.

        • Anonymous :


          • Aunt Jamesina :

            Yeah, OP, this isn’t okay. Do everything you can to protect your daughter from this. Dad is the adult here and needs to shape up or ship out. She’s at a tough age where she really needs her parents.

        • Anonymous :

          Wow this is really …… bad.

          He needs therapy, or I would consider leaving him.

        • I don’t know if it’s because of Bourdain and Spade this week or what, but I’m in tears reading the OP’s post and thinking of her poor daughter, who needs to be loved and cherished by her dad. Your husband must change for the sake of your child, or you need to get out.

        • Senior Attorney :

          Oh, my. This is awful. I was married to that guy for 15 years and it was just terrible. It doesn’t get better, it gets worse. Counseling all around, stat.

          But be warned, conjoint counseling is probably not indicated because narcissistic types like this will use the counseling sessions as an opportunity for further abuse. Individual counseling for everybody is much better at least to start.

    • “views her as disrespectful because she gets tired of listening to his lectures, tells her that her feelings are invalid when he doesn’t agree with them”

      YIKES. Ugh this hits home. I feel like my father liked spending time with me if and only if I was respectful to his endless, self-centered lectures and because I made sure that I only expressed feelings he would approve of. BTW, still in therapy for it. I know he loves me as his daughter, but this is an awful way to grow up. My god, your poor daughter. What’s his take on all this? How does he perceive her reaction to him? If he ever wants a strong relationship with her, he *has* to let her be her own person, not someone who fills the roll of daughter. And not like a drinking buddy where he can decide if he wants to hang ’cause she is fun or enjoyable.

    • Anonymous :

      What even? Demand family counseling immediately. If he won’t, divorce him. You must protect your child from this monster.

    • Anonymous :

      I kind of feel like you’re describing my dad. He loved me until I was my own person. He then was disinterested in me, and it felt like he only really took an active interest in me to be critical in some way. That, combined with his own personal traits that I don’t admire (principally selfishness, his criticism of my appearance, his treatment of my mother), really did a whammy on our relationship. I interact with him now, but it is a very superficial relationship. He gets invited to holidays that we host, he babysits my kid, but I don’t talk about anything meaningful with him. I don’t call him unless it’s necessary. He loves my toddler, but I expect that he will be less interested once she becomes a teen and stops being “cute.” I think of how I’m going to protect her heart and her confidence from his rejection.

      Tell him that he’s on the right track to achieving the sacrifice of a meaningful adult relationship with his child after she outgrows her teen years. If that’s not what he wants, he needs to go to a parenting class or therapy. This is a him problem.

      • Anonymous :

        Just to follow up. My dad now wants a meaningful adult relationship with me. He just didn’t like me from about 10 or 12 years old until I graduated from college. It’s like he has completely forgotten what a jackass he was when I was younger – or, he doesn’t remember it like I do. But I still keep him at arms length because I remember how he made me feel and it’s not an easy thing to forgive.

        Take your daughter’s complaints seriously (it sounds like you do). She sounds like a normal tween. Your husband is really in the wrong here.

      • Anonymous :

        ditto. My dad didn’t ever make me feel like he didn’t like hanging out but there was a lot of judgment and not listening which just means that I don’t have a close relationship with him now. maybe because he grew up in a different culture but a close relationship doesn’t seem “expected” so we just keep going about our merry way.

    • Diana Barry :

      This is really bad. Your husband needs to grow up and BE INTERESTED in your daughter. If he needs to pretend to be interested, he needs to do that! Family therapy, also, for all of you, NOW.

    • Anonymous :

      I think they would benefit from a common hobby, not soccer where dad is Coach, but where they do something together that is “their thing.” I agree that dad needs to be the adult in the situation, but also, having been/had/known many tween/teen girls…they can be really trying. Here are some ideas:

      – a new dog/pet they can adopt together, train, and go on walks together with
      – exercise/ train for something together (by my thing AT ALL but my coworkers and their middle schoolers do mini tris and bike races all the time)
      – church/volunteer service
      – hiking/camping- let daughter own pieces of the planning like choosing location or meal planning/prep
      – my husband bought a project car to restore with our 3 girls. 2/3 if them are totally and completely into it. The one that isn’t all about the tinkering participates in her own way, which is by bargain shopping for the parts they need and picking out paint colors/accessories and has learned enough that she can have conversations about it with boys ;). I swear to you, this messy money pit taking up garage space has my entire family and half the neighborhood entertained. Plus my 14 y/o girls knows how car parts work. They are all into it because they are at or nearing driving age (12,14, 16).

      At this point all my girls love Dad more than me and I’m down with it. We get along ok as long as I stick to taking them shopping and for Starbucks/manis. I figure they’ll come around eventually and until then they can have their space.

    • Anonymous :

      I definitely went through this phase with my mother. I didn’t like her, she didn’t seem to like me very much, and I just wanted her to go away. It got better and we’re close now, but it has damaged my view of her forever.

    • Anonymous :

      “tells her that her feelings are invalid when he doesn’t agree with them”

      Oh man, my dad STILL does this to me at age 30 and I don’t have much to say other than it’s incredibly heartbreaking and disappointing that my own parent doesn’t care. A friend of mine and I were talking about our strained relationships with our fathers and she pointed out that women get ragged on for having “daddy issues” all the time but nobody ever blames men who are $hitty fathers for being the ones to cause the problem in the first place.

      I hope your husband can grow up and reverse course.

    • I think I know you who are and based on this question and some things you have posted before, I would honestly divorce him (or seek counseling, but leave if he doesn’t indicate a willingness to change his behavior ASAP). This is a way bigger deal than you seem to think it is from your fairly casual question. Please know you’re doing serious, lifelong damage to your daughter by staying married to him. Of course if you’re divorced she may still have to interact with him, but she’ll know that you don’t think the way he treats her is ok. Staying with him tells her (at least by implication) that you’re ok with the way he treats her and that is an AWFUL message to send your minor child.

      • Legally Brunette :

        + 1

        His behavior is so incredibly damaging to your daughter. I’m shocked at his indifference for his OWN CHILD.

    • Bluntly speaking, what don’t you get? Your husband has made it plain to her that he doesn’t enjoy spending time with her, as evidenced by his playing on his phone, lecturing her on things she is not interested her, and otherwise ignoring her. Why would she want to hang out with him?

      Your husband needs to grow up and parent. Teens are very challenging. That doesn’t mean you give up interacting with them. Why can’t he put down his phone and do something that SHE wants to do (go to the movies, go on a walk, take her for lunch, etc.)?

      • Tween mom :

        I don’t get why he doesn’t like his own daughter and won’t put down his phone and parent.

        • Anonymous :

          Gently, I don’t think this is really something that you need to “get” or understand because I think you can see that his behavior is objectively wrong. I’m sure you’re like a lot of other people on this s i t e who want to get to the root of the issue, but I don’t think you’re going to be able to solve this issue without professional help. From your follow up, it seems as if your husband is likely to dismiss any feedback from you.

        • Anonymous :

          I mean, sounds like he’s a selfish POS. That’s why.

    • This describe my preteen/teen life to a tee. It wasn’t until I was an adult that my mother admitted this was happening to me. It’s permanently damaged my relationship with my stepdad (I have none), made me feel rejected by men way too early in my life as a straight woman (as in, too early for me to not personalize it), and has impacted my relationship with my mother.

      At the very least, I would talk to your daughter about it, too. It’s incredibly difficult to feel like something is very, very off but no one is acknowledging it. There is so much out there about teenagers being the difficult ones in parent relationships, that when your parent is the difficult one in the relationship, it can really mess with your head.

    • Anonymous :

      My dad actually did try to cultivate a relationship when I was around this age, but he wasn’t really open to me being different from what he wanted or expected me to be (he had narcissistic traits in other areas of life, to be fair). And like most girls this age, I was extremely sensitive to issues of “being myself.” I felt like I either had to play a role or create friction. It didn’t really feel like there was a real a relationship to lose; it was just him and his idea of me, and it was super uncomfortable and awkward.

      I don’t know how similar/dissimilar this is. The lecturing makes me wonder if he’s the one playing a stereotypical “dad” role that neither of them really enjoy? Part of me feels like he’s given himself a lot of leeway to have and express these feelings. I was a difficult child with some learning differences, and I’m not sure my parents “liked” me, but I also can’t imagine them framing it that way, as if it even mattered.

    • This is such a sad situation. I’m sorry that you recognize this issue for what it is and your husband doesn’t. It’s very hard to get someone else to change, especially when they are self-centered, but I think you need to have a heart-to-heart with him, probably in therapy where someone else can help you through. It sounds like he isn’t open minded, so you need some back up to make this into a healthier situation. Also, you may want to come up with specific “asks” that you want him to do for you to help improve the situation – practical, specific things like listening to your daughter without interrupting, discounting her feelings, or launching into a lecture. This is hard because he has a bad attitude, and the behavior follows from that. Maybe you can come up with some asks in therapy.

    • Metallica :

      TW re: narcissistic parents/abuse issues

      I was the kid in this situation growing up, except that both parents didn’t like me (to the point where my mother would outright tell me “I have to love you but I don’t like you”, and I had to stop her from punctuating her toast at my wedding with a gleeful “she’s your problem now!”) I essentially spent my childhood and teen years wondering why they had me in the first place. My heart hurts for your daughter. I had to do so much work as an adult to convince myself that I have intrinsic value as a person and that I am worthy of love; the impact of my parents’ terrible behavior has absolutely shaped my friendships and romantic relationships. I’m 40 now and only in the past few years have I been able to really let people in.

      I say all this because growing up I really could have used an adult who sent the message that I was loved and valued. I don’t want this to happen to another kid and I worry that the way your daughter’s father interacts with her sends the message that she doesn’t have worth. It doesn’t sound like developing a shared hobby is going to be the fix for this situation. I found the “Raised by Narcissists” sub re d d i t to be helpful in pinpointing what was going on. Is he a positive or a negative force in her life? Navigating adolescence is tough enough without this sort of treatment from the primary male figure in her life.

    • My mother did this to my sister. She disliked her and didn’t try to hide it. It got BAD. My dad did nothing to protect my sister. She still has an extremely rocky relationship with both of them 20+ years later, and is still very much not over it. I don’t know what the solution here is, exactly. Divorce, therapy, some combination of the two? But at the moment it sounds like your daughter is getting two messages: that her dad doesn’t like her, and that her mom doesn’t care. She may, quite reasonably, interpret these messages as neither parent loves her. I don’t think that’s a tenable situation long term and I would advise you to take it seriously and try to do something about it.

  31. I wouldn’t count on a US gift card working in a Canadian store, even if the store was on both sides of the border (like the Gap for example). Maybe go online to the Canadian Amazon site and see if you can get a e-gift card there?

  32. Nude heel :

    I’m a bridesmaid in an outdoor wedding where we have been asked to wear nude shoes of any height. I’m on the shorter side, so I would like to have a heel (2.5-3.5″ is probably ideal), but I need either a block heel or wedge to make sure I don’t get stuck in potential mud. Comfort is also a priority since I tend to leave my heels on all day (I don’t like having my bare feet on reception dance floors), although I still want them to be cute. Any recommendations? Under $100, although the cheaper the better. I run a bit narrow.

    • Anonymous :

      i was a bridesmaid in an outdoor wedding, and bought these (in black, so i can’t speak to the color):

      comfortable, easy to walk in/wear all day, and really cute!

  33. Yes! I was going to say Trevor Noah’s Born A Crime.

  34. Yes, US gift cards work for most large retail stores in Canada. An amazon giftcard is actually beat

  35. Yes, US gift cards work for most large retail stores in Canada. An amazon giftcard is actually best

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