How To Dress for Desk to Dinner

71 Comments

1. Have I mentioned how much I love living five minutes, one traffic light, and two turns, from the office? Because it’s a lot… :-)

   1. Good point. I now live under a 10 minute walk from work, so I often go home and change first.

      1. Ditto. Well, not for the same reason – but I always have to go home and nurse the baby and feed the kids before I go out anywhere, so I never wear work clothes out anywhere – I am always home to change first.

   2. Yes me too; I live at less than 10 minutes from work so I can go home and dress up or down as fit

2. Threadjack: Seeking advice regarding taxes, professional relationships–

   I’m a recent law school grad. I have a fellowship, paid monthly by my school, to work at a nonprofit for six months. I will end up owing FICA tax and maybe a tiny bit of income tax at the end of this year. (It is a meager fellowship.)

   I had filled out a W-4 and requested withholding, but I got my first paycheck and there was none. This is annoying of itself, because it means I will have to set aside money for taxes instead of waiting for a refund. More problematically, though, it looks like my school filled out a 1099, indicating that it is treating me like an independent contractor even though I’m not. (It’s unclear whether my employer is my school or my nonprofit, but it’s definitely not me.)

   If I am self-employed, I will owe double FICA tax (about $1500 extra). Plus I have to file quarterly estimated tax or face an additional tax penalty (and since I received my first paycheck a day or two before 9/15, I’ve already missed my first quarterly ET deadline). This setup is both wrong (I don’t qualify as an independent contractor) and a huge imposition on me, financially and time-wise (I’m supposed to be doing nonprofit work for other poor people, not dealing with my personal poor-person issues).

   Additionally, no one is paying my unemployment or disability insurance. Probably my nonprofit should be paying unemployment since I’m really working for the nonprofit. And if it doesn’t, then when the stipend runs out in March, I won’t qualify for unemployment benefits (which I will probably need; I don’t have high hopes for the job market). Meawhile, if no one pays my disability insurance, then I owe an irritating extra few dollars per month out of my income.

   So far, my nonprofit has been supporting me as I try to get my school to treat me like an employee. Do I now ask the nonprofit to pay unemployment and disability? Do I get pushier with the school? I’d like to retain my connections to each, since I will also need recommendations and would like to have professional contacts. (I graduated in May, started working in September.) But I really can’t afford to pay double the amount of tax I otherwise would, and I think it’s wrong for larger organizations (universities, nonprofits) to pass on what are relatively small and justifiable costs to them (they have tons of regular employees for whom they pay FICA, UI, and DI), but what are huge drains for people like me who are guaranteed only minimal income for a limited time. (Relatedly, I have already paid more than 1/3 of my pretax income for 2010-11 to get my own health insurance for the year, since neither the school nor the nonprofit will supply it and I have the kinds of preexisting conditions that make it wise for me to remain insured.)

   I’d appreciate any advice on how to proceed. And a narrow question: If I pay my end-of-year taxes as an employed person, will the IRS come after me or my employer for the missing FICA money?

   1. Without being difficult, your arrangement sounds like an independent contractor relationship to me. Then again, I’m not an employment law specialist.

      What makes you so sure that you AREN’T an independent contractor?

      1. There’s a good explanation here: http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc762.html

         Basically, you’re an employee if (1) your boss controls what you do and how you perform, (2) your boss controls the financial aspects of your job, and (3) you are treated like an employee and you act like one.

         I definitely pass the employee test under (1) and (2). Part (3) is the sticky issue because clearly my school is now trying to treat me like an independent contractor. But I come to work, sit in an office, take the same vacation days as everyone else…my work is virtually identical to that of first-years here, as well as people rotating in from law firms (externships, etc.). In fact, back when my school was going to direct the money to the nonprofit and have the nonprofit pay me, it encouraged the nonprofit to make all employee benefits available to me, including/especially health insurance.

         (There is a big problem generally with employers calling people independent contractors even though they are clearly employees. See http://ataxingmatter.blogs.com/tax/2010/02/employees-as-independent-contractorsanother-tax-scam-on-the-way-down.html)

         This is partly a case of passing the buck, and also a case of some confusion as to whom the real employer is. It’s possible that I am an independent contractor, but the tax people at my place don’t think I am, and my tax lawyer uncle doesn’t think I am, so I’m willing to fight for this if it doesn’t jeopardize my professional ties unreasonably.

      2. Here is the IRS’s page on determining whether you are an ee or indep contractor:

         http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html

         1. Thanks. I am actually fairly familiar with these regulations (having worked as an independent contractor myself in a few different capacities) – my point was more that, based on what the OP told us about her situation, she sounds more like an independent contractor than an employee to me. So I’m curious what circumstances/details would lead her to believe otherwise (beyond the fact that she thinks it is wrong for a large educational institution to pass these costs on to her when they pay them for others – while I agree it is burdensome to her and somewhat unfair/irritating, that in and of itself doesn’t make her an employee).

            1. Yeah, sorry, didn’t mean to post it for you, but rather for the OP to determine whether she should be considered an ee or indep.

            2. No worries :)

   2. The IRS has some guidance on whether you are an independent contractor or an employee, so I recommend reading their publication to determine whether you are or not (the answer may surprise you): http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html

      Also, I recommend reading their guidance on FICA – http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98846,00.html

      If you expect to owe $1,000 or more, then you have to make est. payments or be hit w/ penalties for underpayment. BUT – if you have paid in 100% of your PY tax (not sure what you did in 09), you are safe harbored.

      Good luck!

   3. The IRS has some guidance on whether you are an independent contractor or an employee, so I recommend reading their publication to determine whether you are or not (the answer may surprise you): http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html

      Also, I recommend reading their guidance on FICA – http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98846,00.html

      If you expect to owe $1,000 or more, then you have to make est. payments or be hit w/ penalties for underpayment. BUT – if you have paid in 100% of your PY tax (not sure what you did in 09), you are safe harbored.

      Good luck!

   4. I took out the hyperlinks since I got stuck in comment moderation so cut and paste:

      The IRS has some guidance on whether you are an independent contractor or an employee, so I recommend reading their publication to determine whether you are or not (the answer may surprise you): irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html

      Also, I recommend reading their guidance on FICA – irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98846,00.html

      If you expect to owe $1,000 or more, then you have to make est. payments or be hit w/ penalties for underpayment. BUT – if you have paid in 100% of your PY tax (not sure what you did in 09), you are safe harbored.

      Good luck!

   5. i’m in kind of the same boat but decided it wasn’t worth it to fight…it’s not a huge amt of money and hopefully i’ll find something permanent soon

   6. A friend of mine had a similar problem when he was in undergrad–he traveled as a part of some fellowship and the school classified him as an independent contractor, I believe. In any case, they did not withhold the taxes. A few years later, the IRS contacted him saying he owes something like $700.

      I have no advice about how to handle this–though I encouraged him to fight the IRS over it–but I wanted to let you know that it may become an issue later if you don’t handle it now.

   7. You could push a little bit, nicely, but in the long run the goodwill, connections and recommendations of the people you are working with are going to be much more important than the money. So just figure out what you need to do tax-wise (there is a number you can call at the IRS to get advice, I believe) and do it. If it turns out you are supposed to pay est taxes, you may well be safe-harbored for this year, or you can go ahead and make your first payment a little late.

      I’d be surprised if you would qualify for very much unemployment insurance after a six-month fellowship anyway, although I don’t know how that works. Not having other benefits obviously is not good for you, but it sounds like it’s part of the deal they offered you, so you’re not going to make friends by arguing that now.

      1. every state is different, but in VA she very well could qualify for unemployment in this situation. because there are likely just 2 quarters of wages to look at, and by her report they are low, the benefit payout would be low, but wouldn’t rule that out. now, if you are truly a 1099 then, no of course.

   8. The problem with large bureaucracies is that they can’t work outside of their own complex rulesets which is where you may have found yourself. For me, this was a fellowship that extended 1 month past my graduation date, so it wasn’t worth it for me to fight. I don’t know about your school, but when I had this issue with mine, these were the rules:

      1. Fellowship funds are for individuals classified as students, and inherently exclude non-student employees.
      2. Individuals receiving income from the University who are not employees or students are contractors.

      There was only one way for the system to process my payroll. This is an issue with the system and not the individuals involved, and if you are going to pursue it try to keep that in mind.

      A possible avenue for you to pursue is looking at the school’s rules for contracting for professional services and see if there are duration limits shorter than 6 months or required a contracting agreement that you never signed. Maybe you’ll find a rule that also excludes you from being an independent contractor. You may also want to see who would pay those taxes if you were still a student.

      Best of luck.

3. For me it depends on what the “dinner” is. If it is a fairly casual dinner and a few drinks with friends, I’ll wear the same outfit. If it is anything either more casual (dive bar or sporting event, say) or less causual (nice party) than that, I’ll probably bring a new outfit and change.

   1. Same for me. Though sometimes I will throw a long necklace or fun earrings in my purse for after work (and forget to put them on 2/3 of those times).

   2. Exact same.

4. Most of my after-work plans tend to be the kind where work clothes are perfectly fine, so I rarely have to think about it. If I can’t rely on that approach, I bring a whole other outfit to change into. That usually happens if I am going to a dressy event (like you tonight) or the opposite, where jeans are the way to go. Anything else in between, I just wear work clothes, usually something very basic where I can take off the jacket if I want (ie sheath dress + jacket).

5. Perfect timing, I have a non-work dinner to attend this evening. I am going to leave early, go home and change. I was going to change my outfit in the office however, I feel like I am doing a “walk of shame” when I do.

   Love the Tiffany earrings!

   1. Ha, I feel the same way. I’m always hoping that I don’t run into anyone on my way out, especially with tricked out makeup.

      From a different perspective, sometimes I’ll come to work dressed up but wear a jilbaab/abaya over my outfit so nobody can see my sparkly clothes. Granted, I’m a Muslim woman so I can do that without raising eyebrows, so I don’t really know how this method would help anyone else =)

      1. Wow, that’s awesome :) Yeah, I don’t have that option – though come to think of it, I could easily hide a miniskirt under a longer A-line skirt, and a tank top under a sweater/blouse :)

6. I just want to talk about the earrings. Wow. My heart goes pitter-patter. The outrageous price makes them all the more alluring. (my first thought was, gee, my 10th anniversary is next year, maybe I could send the link to my husband…and then I realized that they aren’t even aspirational. Duh.) But wow, how lovely!

   1. Oh. my. god. Yes.
      Makes me wish for a fairy godmother.

   2. lol. I can’t believe how expensive those are!

   3. I’m just disappointed that I can’t order them online! I can order this from Amazon: http://amzn.to/d0E81m (though no picture there).

      1. that’s great! I added it to my cart, just for kicks! It’s truly splurge Thursday!

         1. I added it to my cart too and it offered me no payments for 6 month plus financing! Ha!

      2. Nice that they throw in free shipping. Do you think it comes UPS?

   4. You can’t even call them a “splurge”. Beautiful but my house wouldn’t sell for that much!

      1. @KelliJ, my thoughts exactly. And remembering our shared stories of losing (or near-losing one, just one tiny (relatively speaking) little stone….never in a million years. You’d have to be extra insured just to walk around your house in these – which probably becomes irrelevant with the amount of insurance you’d be paying on said house. Hahahaha.

   5. If you really like them, why not get them copied at a jeweler, using clear stones that are not diamonds?

      1. Or using lab diamonds, or clear gemstones that aren’t diamonds – then you get almost the same quality :)

      2. Here’s a similar look made with moissanites: http://www.moissaniteco.com/round-moissanite-bezel-three-stone-earrings-45-4-35mm-14k-p-3687.html

7. Generally speaking, I just wear the same clothes out to dinner as I wear to work.

   I work about 45 mins to an hour from home – so if I am doing something by my house after work, I am probably home first to change. In the few instances I have had to show up somewhere in coctail attire right after work near my office, I worked from home and came in for the event. It just takes me too much time to commute back and forth, and I like to be showered and fresh for an event like that anyway.

8. For those who change into something completely different at work, how do you deal with walkjng out in something potentially skimpy from the office?
   A few times in summer, I changed into sun dresses before heading out, and even though they weren’t remotely scandalous, I still felt very bare walking past security, etc., with my bare arms/shoulders…
   Are you supposed to say something? Just pretend its no big deal? What if you see a Sr. person in the elevator . . . how do you ensure no one thinks you were dressed like that all day!?

   1. Are there less obvious restrooms you could change in? I’ve sometimes used the one in the lobby of my building rather than the one on my floor, especially when I’m getting really dressed up/putting on evening make-up/etc. It doesn’t completely solve the problem, but it minimizes the possibilities of having to make awkward small talk (or not) about your manner of dress with people you work closely with.

   2. I am not really a sundress type, but if I have changed into something like say jeans and a more bare top (ie sleeveless or just more casual/lowcut) I always always always wear a cardigan/sweater over it until I am out of the office building. I should add I never show much skin at work (I don’t even like to wear short sleeves at the office, usually just long sleeves or 3/4) so I am hyper conscious about that.

      As for the later part of the question – half the time that happens to me, the senior person will comment “wow, you’re not in a suit, you must be going to something after work ” because I wear a suit every single day. So I just figure that’s what people assume. Then again, I have always worked in very formal work environments, such that when you see someone in jeans heading out the door, you know they did not wear that to work.

   3. Meh. I think that if it is enough of a difference from your normal work attire, then people will just assume you have an event.

   4. This has happened to me twice. Both in work out clothes. I changed, ran and came back sopping in sweat only to find someone I directly report to walking to his car, parked next to mine. I wasn’t going back into the building but ran into him anyway. We just made polite chit chat and that was that. I was a little embarassed to be in shorter shorts than I’d wear to a work event but it was clear I had just gone on a long run.

      The second time, I was on a long bike ride that happened to go by my office. No one was parked out front so I ran in for a bathroom break. When I left I ran into a partner. He is an avid biker and was excited to see that I bike too. I was still a little embarassed (bike shorts and all) but I think it was a good thing rather than a bad thing. If I could do it again, I’d have been more confident and less apologetic about the whole thing.

   5. Get a gym membership close to your office and change there!

   6. Nothing embarassing about it – if its really skimpy, just throw on a cardigan/jacket, but other than that, I’ve seen people of all levels doing this. It seems to happen more often in the summer, when you want to put a fun summer outfit on that is definitely NSFW before drinks, etc.

   7. Why not just smile and say something like, “Doesn’t it feel nice to change out of work clothes sometimes? Have a great night!” Be casual and brush it off — if you regularly dress professionally during the day, having someone see you walk out of the building shouldn’t be a problem.

      I did have one instance where I changed out into a casual, short-sleeved dress on my way out the door and promptly got a call asking me to step into a late meeting — I walked in and said something like, “I was all ready to leave, changed and everything!” and it seemed like both men and women in the room understood and smiled sympathetically.

      If I were changing into something much skimpier — going from a suit to a short sparkly evening dress, for example — I might change in a bathroom in sbux or something?

   8. If a senior person sees you headed out dressed in something skimpy, really casual, or clearly evening, s/he is going to realize that you’re headed to a non-work event. Just change in the ladies’ room, head out the door, and don’t sweat it.

9. I’m an attorney in DC and so are most of my friends so rocking my workwear to dinner is totally fine 90% of the time. If I’m actually going somewhere where I want to dress differently, I usually try to find time to run home and change first or I pull a Kat and bring a different outfit and just pray no one sees me in the elevator (although I usually make sure to cover my outfit with a cardigan or a coat until I get out of the building).

   1. ditto on cardigan or coat. and ditto on being a lawyer in DC – you can always wear work clothes to dinner with people here.

      1. I’m an attorney in DC, and I usually change my clothes for after-work fun. I mean, you can get away with it, but DC is usually very conservative work-wear wise. I like to change it up at night to show off a little bit more of my personality.

         If I plan it well, I go to the gym after work, bring a change of clothes, and then have fresh hair and makeup to go with my new outfit.

10. I typically wear some type of sheath dress with a jacket, remove the jacket, change shoes and add jewlery/makeup. But, then, I don’t go to super formal stuff directly from work very often. If I have to, I bring and change.

    For more casual, I wear black pants that day to the office, and usually lose my jacket. I may be a bit more dressed than normal, but I can usually blend in well

    As for explaining it, if I feel I must, I usually make a joke about heading to a community event and how jealous I am of men who only have to wear the same suit. That tends to cover it.

11. Haven’t been working long but it depends on the plans. Most of my friends are also young attorneys, and we’re in a low-key Southern city where everyone drives to work and it’s easy to actually get off work at “normal closing time” if you plan it. So usually we plan things so that everyone has time to run home and change first. But on days (like today) when I know there is an event after work and I won’t have time to go home, I usually make an effort to wear an outfit that I know will transition to after work easily. For instance, whereas I wear suits quite a bit, today I have on a dress that is perfectly suited to the office but will also look normal at the event I’m going to later. Definitely not always possible though, but I know it would be no problem to bring other clothes and change before I leave.

    1. Wow! This sounds like the kind of job I need. LOL! Do you work in Atlanta, by any chance? I only ask because I considered that city during OCI. One of the things that impressed me was that most of the attorneys in the firms I met seemed to work normal hours, make time to follow other pursuits after work, etc. I want to work there one day!

12. Just wanted to add that I have also ended up having to wear a suit at totally casual events after work. I planned to go home and change and something came up and I couldn’t, etc. I ended up having a blast and found the suit was actually a conversation starter. “Obviously, you just came from work, big event today?”

13. Most often I switch the blazer over my dress for a wrap, bring a nice clutch, and add fancy earrings. Occasionally, I change entirely (such as for a Friday night date rather than a mid-week dinner with friends).

    Since Kat mentioned that she doesn’t like to throw nice pieces in a bag – I’ve started wearing the fancy earrings to work, but then stashing them in a small box in a desk drawer where I keep a pair of (faux) pearl drop earrings to wear during work hours. An inversion of the commuting-shoes-to-nice-heels principle!

14. I’ve done it every which way, but my personal fav was bridesmaid-ing at a wedding straight from work. Got changed into the dress, did my hair, hopped a cab and ran to the church. Running through my office in a gold dress was certainly memorable.

    But generally I’d just wear whatever I wore to work, it’s usually fine, and most people get that I’ve come straight from the office.

    1. Wow, great visual on that!

       1. Yes, and…going the other way – try changing in your car (while driving) from full professional office garb into golf tournament attire. It can be done:)!

    2. Ha, that’s awesome.

15. Here is a laughable suggestion on this topic in the Globe and Mail (major Canadian newspaper) this week: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/style/from-office-to-screening-to-after-party-with-a-single-outfit/article1703045/

    As you predicted, pretty inappropriate workwear…

    1. I’m a little surprised to say this, but there is NOTHING about any of the versions of the outfit that I like (and I have a hard time imagining that there are alot offices where that outfit is appropriate).

16. I don’t get out after work very often as I have two little ones at home, but about every other week I meet a group of long-time girlfriends for a cocktail. We all wear what we wore to work, and the bar is typically filled with people doing the same.

    At holiday time, there are often work-related mixers and the like, and most of us don’t change for those, either, but on that day I might wear something slightly festive or evening-ish – not sparkly or shiny, but maybe drapier – and wear more significant jewelry.

    In either case, I find brushing my teeth and refreshing my makeup makes me feel like I’m ready to go out, even if I didn’t change.

17. I have a related question – what if you’re headed for a work-related, not quite gala dinner after work? The dress code simply says “Women: Eveningwear, Men: Suit and Tie, Theme: Elegant”. I have no idea what this means.

    Since I’ll be leaving the office together with the partners attending, I fear that bringing an additional outfit is going to be seen as overkill/primping, especially when the (male) partners get to go as they are.

    I have in mind a simple ponte shift (does have an exposed zipper, though) and some nice jewellery. Thoughts?

    1. I would check with someone who has gone to this event before — if you are going as a professional, it may be most appropriate to actually go in a suit (though I would recommend a skirt suit), despite the fact that some women at the event may be in cocktail dresses.

18. For anything short of black tie (and even some cocktail dress/black tie events, wear a black or navy or really dark purple or really dark green sheath (whichever color flatters you most) and bring a change of shoes and jewels: pretty heels, the more more formal the event the higher the heel and more likely to go to an evening sandal in a metallic.

    Same thing with the jewelry, dinner = gold or pearl, fancier means sparkly

    Plan on doing something special with your hair, poof it up ito updo if you can do that yourself, or get a beatiful comb or barret (hair jewelry).

    Going in the opposite direction when you need to be casual after wor:. Where a suit with a jacket that looks kinda blazer-ish and a t-shirt or man collared shirt. pack jeans and loafers or boots. Swap out office appropriate skirt and heels for jeans and sturdier shoes and you are off to the sports bar.

    The rest of the time, I wear whatever I wore to work, or for super formal things requiring evening gowns and the foundation garments that go with them, I go home to change

19. Black/red/navy/grey sheath dress+pearls + heels to work. Then swap pearls for fancy earrings. And if it’s really a posh date etc, bring out a cute clutch. Otherwise my BV hobo comes to dinner with me:)

20. You really can’t go wrong with these – http://www.moissanite.com/shop/earrings/darling-050-540ct-round-brilliant-moissanite-solitaire-four-prong-basket-stud-earrings-14k-white-or-yellow-gold

Comments are closed.