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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
As we very slowly roll into the “back to work” mode in many states, some friends and I have been talking about whether there will be more relaxed dress codes in offices where people have been working from home in T-shirts for the last few months.
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Sales of note for 9.10.24
- Nordstrom – Summer Sale, save up to 60%
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- Boden – 15% off new styles
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- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
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Anon today
I was working on my absentee ballot last night where the local sheriff’s seat is up for election, and I am more inclined to vote for the POC on the ballot vs the white men. They all essentially have the same qualifications and platform. My thought process is that police aren’t going away, but if the leadership is a POC, they might be more willing to address the systemic racial issues between their department and the public.
Does anyone know of resources/studies that support this theory?
Helium
It’s a good theory but I’m not sure what practice holds out. Maybe I’m jaded from being in Chicago…former Police Chief Eddie Johnson is black and was in leadership when, among other repeated civil rights violations and a pattern of officer misconduct and use of force violations, former officer Jason Van Dyke shot Laquan McDonald 16 times to his death.
ChiTown Anon
Correction – Gerry McCarthy, who is white was Chicago’s police chief, when Laquan McDonald was murdered. McCarthy was fired and replaced by Eddie Johnson. I also live in Chicago.
Helium
Not a correction. I said he was in leadership then. He is currently a former chief and was in leadership at the time.
anon
The Skimm this morning said that more POC police officers doesn’t help. It said that the main thing that helps is more precise policies, which I found interesting. They had articles to back it all up, of course.
Carmen Sandiego
I think this makes a lot of sense, actually. I have seen some people saying over the past few days that there should be a black officer on every patrol, but my concern is that these same policies and practices would be used and they would just use the presence of a black officer to rubber-stamp the policies, like, “oh there was a black officer there, so it couldn’t possibly have been racist” and never changing the policies themselves. Diversity, of course, is crucial in every profession, and I fully support more POC officers, but the changes need to be at a policy-level.
Plus1
Also, I think it will take some time for Groupthink, within those spaces, to be replaced with whistleblower actions.
Cb
I listened to Pod Save America yesterday and they had DeRay Mckesson on speaking about Project Zero, a campaign to end police brutality. It was fascinating – they’ve done loads of research about what works, and apparently unconscious bias training, community policing, etc isn’t that effective, what is effective is policies against certain forms of restraint and activities by officers. It was really fascinating and helpful to think about.
I’m based in the UK now where generally everyday officers aren’t armed with guns and while there have been horrific instances of police brutality, it isn’t a regular occurrence like it is in the US so I think there is likely something to it.
Anon
I read an article this morning about choke and other neck holds, and that many police departments (like the one in Minneapolis) still allow them, despite massive evidence that they are dangerous and difficult to use without injuring someone. In the article, a police expert says the problem is really that police don’t use them often enough to remember the training they get on how to use holds without hurting people, but I also think – as we saw with George Floyd – for cops who enjoy hurting people, or who just don’t care, they’re too easy to employ poorly.
OP – I read my voter guide and if the candidates seem similarly qualified, and there is only one woman or POC in the race, I vote for the woman or the POC. Lately in my area we have many more female candidates, in particular, which is great to see but makes the choice a little harder. I tend to give more consideration to candidates who reached out to our household personally – we have people who come by doing door-to-door canvassing, or they call. I got called by a candidate Monday (or primary was yesterday) who spent several minutes on the phone with me talking about her platform. Her stances were in line with my beliefs, so I voted for her.
Anon
As to your first paragraph, that’s because trying to make people emote better is a lot harder than getting them to act better. You can get people to behave well even if they really hate someone. You can train people on how to restrain themselves in high-pressure situations. You can teach muscle memory.
Monday
Well, there can be multiple explanations, but this isn’t what McKesson said on the interview. He said there’s really no way to “change the culture” in any organization or institution if there aren’t any consequences for bad behavior. This means it only works to outright prohibit, for example, choke holds. Makes a lot of sense to me.
Hj
Foreigner here from liberal European country up north. America is a violent country and you can’t send police out unarmed when everyone else potentially is armed. Just because it works in random.country.oversea where people do not typically own or have guns, doesn’t mean it’ll work in the US. America is really a beast on its own.
Anonymous
Actually many police departments in the US, even in areas with significant violence, have been able to dramatically reduce use of force by limiting how officers respond to incidents and what types and weapons they use and how. It’s not like overnight cops all turn in their guns but there’s tons of room to improve safely.
Cb
Yes, McKesson said something about how only 5% of police callouts are for a violent crime.
Anonymous
Police are basically social workers of last resort.
Possibly also important to remember: this latest death is from a knee, which we all have. Not a gun.
Hj
Well yes, that’s called deescalation and they get trained for that. Does it always work and is implemented. No.
Anonymous
Part of the problem is that they’re too often what people resort to *first*.
anon
It’s the guns everywhere. Being a police officer is way less dangerous in other countries and was less dangerous in the US too before so many people got guns. I don’t understand why not more police unions lobby for stricter gun laws. If you don’t want to compare the US to other countries, you can always look to it’s own past for inspiration.
Anonymous
Because loads of them love their off duty guns and also are racist.
Anon
Give it a rest.
Anon
I don’t have any links/studies to back it up, but a couple of friends who worked in IA for our city’s police department noted a strong correlation between amount of overtime (including off-duty officer work) and complaints for excessive force/poor judgement.
IIRC, it was a strong enough correlation that their leadership did cap overtime/ODO work
Anonymous
Check out Campaign Zero, its a campaign that advocates evidence based policy solutions for ending police brutality. According to Campaign Zero (they cite sources as well) increased diversity in police force decreases police brutality. There is a magic ratio needed before it makes an impact on a locality, but I forget what it is, I think it was 33% POC.
Anonymous
In my SEUS city, all major offices are elected and have been POC for a while now (local elected government, police chief, elected sheriff). Our last local officer-involved shooting was by a female officer against a POC citizen who was threatening people with a gun inside a business. Prior to that, POC officer shot a POC citizen who pulled out a gun during an arrest. I think that police are put in volatile situations with mentally unstable individuals who are often armed and endangering other people. If someone is mentally unstable and possibly under the influence of drugs / not on needed meds, that is a situation that will often end tragically. I don’t see a solution changing by color of the individual officers or their grand-bosses. Our local situation is that maybe 5% of the criminals are responsible for an outsize share of city misery, but the ones who are are more dangerous-mentally-ill-and-threatening-with-a-weapon are hard to just police better when they are already threatening with deadly force.
Anonymous
I hope you don’t mind me asking, but I’m not sure I entirely understand this in context. Do you think then that it is helping to have POC in elected positions? Do you have a sense that there been a shift away from violence or that in general it is usually warranted? Or are you writing this to suggest earlier interventions for mentally ill people or gun restrictions for civilians?
Anonymous
I have a mental illness & it’s having health insurance (and white privilege) that keeps me from becoming a public nuisance, so I certainly hope you advocate for health care for all.
AFT
I don’t know the answer, but the 538 podcast also looked at the data of police violence this week that others may be interested in. One takeaway I took was that incremental change in the makeup of police departments doesn’t often show much results, but that once minorities make up a significant portion of the police force (1/3) the department is likely to change.
Also, it showed that large city police forces that have been the focus of many of the more recent BLM/reform efforts have shown a reduced number of police involved shootings – so change is possible in relatively short time (I think the study looked at ~2014 to present).
I would probably make the same decision, OP.
Anonymous
I see the Minn. event as completely needless killing of a civilian.
In my city though (if not majority-POC, close; police is maybe the same as the city), any killing by police can result in riots (e.g., the person killed could be shooting at people and if the police kill the shooter, it still results in riots in addition to protests). All city government is POC at the top level. Some people just want to break stuff.
Some idiots hanging out with the legitimate protesters in my city are throwing fireworks at police. OMG people that is easily likely to escalate things needlessly and freaks me out because it sounds just like shooting. Just stop. More people are going to get hurt or die.
OP
Thanks for all the thoughts and references. I am trying to vote more consistently for minorities on the ballot (women and poc) as long as I do believe with their platform. Sounds like having more minorities in the police isn’t *the* answer, but it is a start.
ANON
NO! Vote for the most qualified candidate. DON’T vote based on race.
Anon
I disagree. It’s my impression that credentialism often favors privileged people who aren’t therefore better for the job.
Monday
+1. Also, the OP said “They all essentially have the same qualifications.” So “most qualified” is not a metric she can use.
Never too many shoes...
Um, perhaps read more carefully. She said they all had similar qualifications for the position and she believed in their platforms.
Anon
I’m a hardline conservative, and, *once I have determined that the candidates are all qualified and would do a good job*, use other factors, including race. If I’m getting brain surgery, I want the best brain surgeon. But in many positions, you don’t need to be the “most” qualified; you just need to be qualified, and lots and lots of people are qualified.
anonshmanon
ANON, I hope you can take a moment and re-read the OP’s statement that all candidates essentially have the same qualifications. In that case, she has to pick one. You seem to reflexively assume that the person of color candidate must be less qualified. Examining that reflex would be important work, no matter your own race.
Nesprin
I’d consider diverse backgrounds and personal experience as a qualification, especially when considering that systemic racism inherent in our political system ensures that people of color have to work twice as hard to get half as far.
superduper anon
My employer (R1 university) has been really mum on what the fall semester, the budget, etc will look like due to the effects of COVID. Understandable, since guidance changes so frequently.
What’s the one thing they did nail down? A way to make sure athletics stays funded without running afoul of the rules about the department being self-supporting.
Woooo sportsball! *grumble, grumble*
Anonymous
I was recently talking with faculty from several different universities, all of whom said they suspect that their universities are acting as if classes will be held in person until tuition deposits are paid, at which point they’ll announce that they’re going on line.
Anon
I’m the OP. Mine makes a huge to-do of experiential learning, so I think with that in mind, they’re going to open campus for labs/hands-on courses and remote for everything else.
As a former musician, I wonder how music schools will handle things. There is an awful lot of air movement and spit no matter what.
Anon
That deadline has passed at my school and they’re still moving forward with plans to bring students back, although things can certainly change in the next couple months. That said, my university was never planning for a fully in-person fall semester. Students will come back to campus but classes will be a hybrid of online, and at this point it seems like they will be more online than in person.
Anonymous
Well, your school is probably hurting for $. Keeping sportsball open keeps more people from getting canned. Sadly. Would you prefer to sportsball and more layoffs? That seems to be the decision.
anonshmanon
I’d look at whether the coaches take pay cuts first. Their salaries are outrageous and could easily take care of many many employees.
Panda Bear
+1
pugsnbourbon
If you look at the highest-paid public employee in each state, you’re gonna see a lot of college sportsball coaches.
anonshmanon
and higher paid than most Nobel laureate professors working at those same universities. Just sayin.
Anon
Athletics at my uni haven’t made any money for several years now. There have been emergency infusions of booster money to make up budget shortfalls the last two years. Okay, fine, whatever. That’s part of what Boosters are for. And no, coaches are not taking pay cuts. Most of their salary comes out of Booster money.
Unless you’re Alabama, chances are extremely high that your athletics department isn’t making any money.
Anon
Lots of schools other than Alabama generate a ton of revenue from their sports programs. Just because it isn’t true at your school does not mean it isn’t true at plenty of others.
Anon
This is simply false. The university I work at is WAY less successful than Alabama at football, and the athletics department brings in more than $100 million/year.
Anon
revenue != profit
Football
Let me google that for you:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chrissmith/2018/09/11/college-footballs-most-valuable-teams/#5208166c6c64
According to Forbes, college football’s 25 most valuable teams generate a combined $2.5 billion in revenue, and they clear more than $1.4 billion annually after expenses.
So, yeah, they’re going to play the sportsball.
Anon
It’s cool that you like football, but 25 of 774 isn’t exactly representative.
Anon
Yeah I’m fine with my R1 university having football in the fall even if classes are mostly or fully online. It generates ~$50M, which will keep a lot of faculty and staff employed.
Anon
It may generate $50 million, but how much is profit? At all but a very few schools, it’s $0. It may generate jobs within the department, but it’s not keeping academic faculty & staff.
Anonymous
Step 1: Jobs = Pay (aka money)
Step 2: Pay = rents/mortgages get paid, people buy consumables like food, durable goods like washing machines, etc.
Step 3: Sale of consumable and durable goods = the entities selling those things can also provide jobs to people
Step 4: Go back to Step 1 and repeat
I’m a little amazed this has to be explained?
Anon
I think it’s a myth (that people really want to believe!) that higher ed sports programs truly make more money than they cost their schools.
anon
For anyone questioning whether athletic programs make money for their schools, why do you think so many student athletes are fighting to get paid? The schools make a ton of money of players.
Anon
I also work for an R1 university. While it has not done exactly what you describe, I am 100% sure that it will do so any day now.
KS IT Chick
My DH is IT at an R1. No layoffs or furloughs for general staff (10% pay cut for upper administration), but athletics has done furloughs for anyone under $30K, pay cuts for over $500K and a choice between the two for those between. My niece’s fiancé is being let go for the summer as a graduate assistant. He normally works with the nationally renowned basketball program. Instead, they are keeping the assistantships associated to the women’s sports programs.
Soft stretchy denim jacket
I am looking for a soft stretchy classic denim jacket to wear over summer outfits and dresses. I would like a regular length jacket instead of a cropped one, and I prefer something that is not boxy. I tried the Kut from the Kloth Helena which is very comfortable, but the XL was a bit too small for me, and it was also cropped and boxy.
Anon
I have this Talbots one in white. I don’t think it’s boxy and it has a nice stretch to it.
https://www.talbots.com/classic-jean-jacket—solid/P201019400.html?cgid=apparel-jackets-and-outerwear-denim&dwvar_P201019400_color=WHITE&dwvar_P201019400_sizeType=MS#start=1
They also have several in a more traditional denim: https://www.talbots.com/clothing/jackets-and-outerwear/denim?#1b9cbecea88c4a2bd7d2a4cb70
I also bought one from Old Navy a year or two ago and I love it. It was also super inexpensive.
anon
yup, I have 3 from Talbots….these are great classics
Anon
You might want to try searching for knit denim.
anon
No recs, but following! I would also love a non-cropped jean jacket this summer.
Shanananana
The 1901 brand from Ntrm denim worked nicely for me. It is slightly cropped, but not majorly. I usually end up in an XL in most brands there and a large fit me nicely and looks flattering and fitted.
Anon
Mine is from a few years ago, but I (surprisingly) have a perfect one from LOFT, so maybe look there? I bought it when I went away for a weekend and didn’t bring a jacket or sweater and should have, and this was the best option available at the local strip mall, but it has turned out to be a favorite .
anon
I have the Two by Vince Camuto jacket (from Nordstrom) and am very pleased with the fit and stretch. I’m 5’8″ and it hits me at my hip bones/top of my butt.
ANON
I have a Charter Club jacket from Macy’s in several colors.
KatieWolf
check out Able Denim – their denim jackets are unbelievably soft!! They have lots of different styles to choose from.
Small Law Partner
I have one that fits all these qualifications from AG.
Anon
so which state do we think will give into Trump and let him hold a convention with no Covid measures in place? I really wish none of them would. How can holding an event with thousands of people indoors (and i’m sure they will be encouraged not to wear masks) in the midst of a pandemic be a good idea. Aside from the fact that as far as I know it is not currently permissible in any state? I read he is considering Nashville, Las Vegas, places in GA, and Orlando & Jacksonville, FL. Maybe everyone who attends will get Covid…
Anon
Vegas, baby.
Anonymous
Las Vegas because they are desperate for business
Anonymous
I fear that you are right about this.
And no matter where it is, unless it is virtual, I think huge unrest will follow from the usual nuckleheads / people who just want to break stuff (vs people who are peacefully exercising their 1A rights and people who want to build something better vs just light a match).
I want people to have conventions. I don’t want us to be harmed by outsiders. I feel like all of this stuff is just so much useless pomp (re-election race for Trump; we know Biden will be the other candidate). The only good that can come of it is the $ spent in hurting hotels and restaurants, but I think that the looting and other damage toll will outweigh that this time.
And I also think that no mayor who isn’t considering retiring from public life wants this in his or her city right now with civil unrest and coronavirus as joint threats and budget escalators and tax base destroyers. The math ought to say no conventions this year, period. But no one cares about math.
Seventh Sister
I doubt that – as much as they are hurting for $, there are very powerful worker’s unions at the casinos and in the general tourist industry that are pretty blue and won’t be interested in supporting that guy.
Anonymous
Florida
Anon
My money is on Florida.
anon
You should really reconsider your last sentence.
Anon
I doubt OP really wants them to all get sick, but I think she has a point – that perhaps other politicians and delegates should say that they will not attend a convention without proper safety measures in place and their constituents should call on them to do so.
Anonymous
I mean, neither party needs to have a convention. They ought to not insist on it, especially with the civil unrest that will likely follow. Parties can all make a good showing of donating the $ to local food banks, etc. so will still get plenty of photo-ops for the ads that will follow. If they want us to vote by mail, surely they can, too? WTF political parties?! I just give up on you both for being so effing tone deaf on this.
Anon
+1
Anonymous
You could do the roll call of states (which I love) and have “the Great State of Rhode Island and Providence Plantation donates its convention funds to . . . [Local Worthy Vetted Charity]” and no one would be unhappy. The Charlotte Marriott could be unhappy re business being down but also relieved that it doesn’t get burned to the ground or looted or have an outbreak of coronavirus there; ditto Milwaukee.
Helium
Anon at 12:02, this is brilliant and want this!
Anon
Or not – it’s good to know when people want their political opponents to die.
anon
Oh good grief, no is hoping anyone dies. Covid isn’t a death sentence.
Anonymous
Tell that to the people here who are hiding in their houses trying not to get sick. There has been NO nuance in the conversation here; Covid = death to many folks, despite profound sound evidence to the contrary.
Anonymous
Yes, usually we know when republicans want us to die because they post all about shooting ppl at protests.
Anonymous
You’re choosing to interpret that comment the way you are. It’s also a factual possibility and a SAD one even for those with differing politics. It’s frustrating and senseless and baffling. You can support a candidate without endangering your own life & the lives of those around you.
Anon
I read it and agree with it for a few people. There are definitely some “obituaries I would read with great pleasure,” as the saying goes.
LaurenB
She didn’t say “I hope / wish everyone who attends gets Covid.” She said “maybe everyone who attends will get Covid,” which is a statement about probability.
anon
Give me a break. Would you be giving the same presumption to a Republican?
So when people say maybe I’ll win the lottery, they aren’t saying they hope they win the lottery, they are saying there is a probability that they will win the lottery? Nope.
anon
We already know how Republicans feel about their political opponents dying so there’s no presumption needed.
Anon
Whataboutism is not a valid rebuttal.
LaurenB
I’m not the poster. But yeah, if people are stupid enough to gather in closed indoor conventions for hours on end without masks/social distancing at this point because they want to be tough guys, I kind of don’t feel terribly bad if they get Covid. I feel bad, of course, for the innocent people around them (the workers at the convention center, the hotel employees, etc.) and of course for the doctors and nurses who have to treat these bozos.
anonshmanon
What’s the plan for the democratic one? Looks like both conventions are in August and not remote?
Anon
the DNC hasn’t ruled out the possibility of remote and I think is very open to taking appropriate measures if it were to be in-person. Trump said he will not even discuss having a non-typical convention with NC.
Anon
+1 I think the DNC will be remote or very scaled back.
Anonymous
I don’t think that it matters — it’s a purple state with a D governor (who is less of an idiot than other politicians, but I think that politicians are generally not good at pandemic management regardless of party, but the larger the city, the more mis-steps are magnified (e.g., NYC nursing homes)).
Anon
While no firm plans have been made, DNC said among the scenarios they are considering is a 100% virtual convention.
Anon
As a West Virginian, I am so afraid that Jim Justice will cave.
anonshmanon
Vegas was vying to host a bubble NBA, but looks like the NBA are in negotiations with Orlando now, so Vegas is definitely desperate.
Anon
Fla and Ga — his favorite governors. Vegas — that mayor seems crazy, IDK what the governor is like. Too bad it can’t be done outdoors but Vegas in August is just easily 110+ degrees. Less hot but still very hot in Fla. and Ga then too. I mean I think we’ve all decided the outdoors is 100% safe even with thousands of people (though I have doubts) because look at the number of people out there.
AnonATL
I’m hoping it isn’t here in Georgia. I know he and Kemp are buddy-ish (though he tried to throw kemp under the bus for re-opening which is another debate for another time), but it would have to be in Atlanta and I’m not convinced the mayor and the mostly blue city would allow it given the protests on top of the COVID issues.
I think Vegas is a good contender with their Mayor’s stance on covid concerns or lack thereof.
Anonymous
Yea, outdoors in August in any of the Southern states is out. The heat/humidity are brutal. Though if your choices are between heatstroke outdoors or covid indoors…
Anonymous
The governor of Nevada is science driven. Everything that is reopening is with distancing.
ANON
So Republican lives don’t matter?
Anon
why can’t they tell Trump that they will not attend without social distancing measures in place and a scaled back convention
LaurenB
Because no one has any balls to tell Trump no, that’s why.
Never too many shoes...
If anyone of either party is enough of a fool to attend a massive, indoor convention where people will be yelling and droplets flying and no social distancing and likely no masks…well, they kind of deserve to get the ‘Vid. Not die, but I would not feel bad for them coming down with something. Choices have consequences. Dumb choices sometimes moreso.
Anon
Could say the same about protesters. Sure it’s outdoors but there’s no science that says NO transmission outdoors. I see no distancing at the protests and more than 3/4 of masks are below the nose.
Why is it ok to wish illness on people? Just because you don’t like their politics?
Never too many shoes...
I made it quite clear I feel that same about anyone in this scenario, regardless of politics.
I do not think anyone feels like the protests are not a Covid risk – for sure they are. But there is a world of difference between protesting policies that result in a pile of dead bodies and a completely optional convention. In this case, it is not even about upholding democracy since these are not contested conventions – everyone knows who the nominees will be. They are just partisan pep rallies.
Anonymous
They’re in charge of their individual choice, which is what they want and would fight to the death for. We all want that freedom.But some of us are shaking our heads in bewilderment & wondering why they’re making a bad choice (large public gathering) when they truly don’t have to. They want to demonstrate their freedom to gather, but it’s not for an actual cause that requires that sacrifice. Will you tell us more about the motivation to do this because it doesn’t make sense?
Anon
Not the person who said this, but I don’t think this is necessarily political. If you choose to go to a large convention where you’ll be packed in tightly with tens of thousands of other people, you deserve to face the consequences. And I know it won’t happen, but I think people who attend such events (of any political stripe) should have to sign waivers that put them last in line for treatment if hospitals get overwhelmed again.
Nesprin
Problem is that every idiot who crowds into a convention center is an extra case to run thru my community. The worst part of public health is that you have to care about everyone to keep a community healthy
Anonymous
Vent:earlier this week I was told by a partner (am a jr associate in biglaw) that I spent an excessive amount of time researching an issue that I was only permitted to bill about 30% of the time spent. It was a very difficult research issue in a niche area of law, and I checked in along the way several times and was told to keep researching. I suppose I screwed up by not communicating about my hours incurred along the way but that is not my typical practice. Am I within bounds to ask that he cut the bill rather than ask me to eat the hours? I have never been told to cut my own hours like this, and I am hurting very badly for hours. This is not a partner I have worked with before or will likely work with again, fwiw. I’m nervous this will be escalated and I will be reprimanded for overbilling or something.
Anonymous
That is exactly what you should do.
Anonymous
Do you have an assigning partner or other trusted partner in your group you could ask?
Anonymous
I worked in three different biglaw firms (all v20 in NYC) and I’ve never heard of being asked to cut my own hours. That being said, I’ve also never worked anywhere that had a billable minimum for class advancement or bonus eligibility. If the partner decided to cut down the bill to meet client expectations, that was their call, but no, I would not reduce my own hours in the billable system (but I also wouldn’t ask the partner to cut the bill rather than eat your hours). I don’t even know if that’s ethical. I’m not sure what your firm’s practice is though; in one of my firms partners had fairly broad latitude to write off time, but it didn’t reduce the associate’s billable hours, but in a different one, any write-offs over a de minimis amount required higher levels of approval so partners wrote off less time. In either case, it didn’t impact the associate’s billable time.
In terms of escalation and being reprimanded, if that happens it’s not great, but I wouldn’t expect very junior associates to be able to accurately assess how many hours of research a difficult point might take to run down, so if your senior associate/partner were telling you to keep researching, then it’s on them.
Anonymous
I am not positive but I believe my firm’s policy is the latter, where any write offs over a de minimis amount requires higher level approval, but doesn’t affect associate credit. But I have totally seen it happen, I have seen very large amounts of time lobbed off my bills and never was spoken to about it.
anon
I work somewhere that does have a billable minimum for bonus eligibility (AM100), and our policy is absolutely not to ask associates to cut hours, especially junior associates (although I have seen it happen). Sometimes I’ve seen partners ask associates slot time into nonbillable but creditable if that’s possible (like a shadowing number). I agree with asking a trusted partner what to do, but be aware that if they are not senior/same level as the assigning partner, they may not be able to do anything.
Anonanonanon
Agree; suggest the partner cut the bill and not make you cut your time on the front end. So frustrating, I’m sorry.
Cat
This is something you hear about occurring in smaller firms – very atypical for Biglaw. And especially considering you did exactly the right thing by checking in as the issue grew more complex. Do you have a trusted partner you could vet this with?
Anonymous
Did he actually ask you to take action on this? Or just say “you can/should only bill 10 hrs on this (type of) project” as an FYI going forward. I’d record my time accurately and let the billing partner figure out if a discount is necessary.
Anon
Agree. I have told associates to only spend a certain amount of time on a research project and to come and see me at the end of that time, even if they haven’t found anything. But I would never tell an associate not to bill for time he or she actually worked.
Anonymous
Do you have a mentor you can ask? Some firms have policies where the billing attorney is penalized for writing off time. If that is the case at your firm, the partner may be simply looking out for his own interest.
Equestrian Attorney
Yeah my old firm has a partner like this. Always super interesting work, but for clients with small budgets (policy stuff) and “oh by the way you can only bill 5 hours on this” (but it’s going to take 15). My new firm has a strong policy against this and we are supposed to speak to our department head when that happens.
Eek
This happens all the time at my mid-law firm. But I think biglaw is different. I agree that you need to talk to a trusted partner or even a senior associate you know will give you a straight answer about the best way to handle it.
Anonymous
From what you’ve reported here, he just criticized you about your time. It’s kind of a big leap to interpret – “hey you billed too much” – to mean – “you need to work with accounting to redo your already-submitted time entries to list only the time I authorized you to bill”. Unless he specifically told you to redo your time entries, I would not assume that’s what he meant. If this is by email, and the email was unclear, I would respond with something like, “Thanks for the feedback, in the future I will be sure to check in with you more often about the hours I should bill to each assignment”.
Prolific Speaker
Pre-COVID, I frequently did public speaking at industry events, for media, and for clients. This is starting to pick back up, but in the form of webinars and doing media appearances via Zoom or similar. Does anyone have any tips or best practices for making these go more smoothly? Space is already at a premium in my apartment so I’m trying to avoid buying a ring light or other equipment until I can move or this ends.
I’ll start with a few tips I’ve found so far (these are meant for occasions where polish is required – I don’t think about most of this with family/friends):
– Use headphones or air pods. The risk of echo is too high if you just use your computer speakers. If you have long hair, your hair will probably hide them anyway, but everyone will understand why you’re wearing air pods.
– Play around with a desk lamp to improve the lighting. I find that angling a light at the wall next to me is more flattering than angling the light at myself
– Check for any glare from your lights on your glasses or glass-covered photos/art you may have in the background of your location. You might find it better to adjust the lighting or relocate.
– Patterns don’t always display great on camera – I stick to solid dark colors (they seem less sensitive to being distorted by the lighting/camera)
– Consider wearing a high neckline top. In-person, people can see my whole outfit, but if they can only see from the shoulders up on video I want it to be super clear that I’m wearing a shirt. In an ideal world it would go without saying that I’m clothed, but we are where we are. If you have long hair, make sure your hair is not completely covering your shirt/neckline.
– I find I need more blush but less eye make-up than I do in-person
– If you will need to use your mouse or keyboard while you’re speaking, consider getting a detached/wireless mouse or keyboard, or a webcam separate from your laptop. I felt awkward when my hand would loom towards the camera before I figured this out and was using the track pad on my laptop.
– Practice looking at your webcam, not your screen ahead of the session
– Practice not fidgeting, especially while others are speaking
– For that matter, practice your active listening facical expression
– If you are going to use your hands/gestures to make a point, be sure you set your camera up far enough away from you that your hands will be in frame.
– There’s only so much you can control about your surroundings, but I try to think about anything that might cause noise in my apartment before the session. This means putting my phone on silent and making sure my alarm clock is silent, but also that my noisy fan is off and that nothing in the immediate area looks like it could easily fall or get knocked over.
– Have a back-up audio option ready (for example, if you join via internet audio, have the dial-in information handy in case your connection goes out)
Anon
I’ve been attending quite a few of these, and thankfully the only one I spoke at was audio only.
Of the ones I’ve attended, beyond a generally ok angle, clothes that are appropriate for your line of work, and an office that’s not a total pigsty, people aren’t stressing about perfect lighting, makeup, angles, etc.
One thing that may be a matter of personal preference, but for some reason, sleeveless tops really don’t look good to me on the computer (on men or women).
If you have pets, feed them an hour or so before you present and crank the a/c down a bit cooler than you might normally do. It’s the best way to get them to sleep through it.
Anon
I agree sleeveless tops don’t look great, and lowcut tops somehow look more risque when only your neck shows.I find a collared shirt looks best, even though I don’t usually wear them. (fwiw, this is all based on looking at myself in the little video, no judgment at all what others are wearing).
Anon
These are great tips, thank you!
anonshmanon
+1, really good list!
New Name goes here
In terms of lighting, if you can set up so that you are near a window, it can make a huge difference in the lighting.
Window needs to be in front of you/behind the camera.
Also, raise up your laptop so that the camera is at eye level.
S in Chicago
Amazon has clip-able ring lights for around $30. I got one that has three light options (more blue, more warm, natural) as well as dimmers and I’ve snapped it on the shelf of the computer armoire I’m using. It has made all the difference in the world. (Apparently a lot of makeup bloggers use them.) I also invested in a stand that holds my laptop higher, so I have full control of the angle at all times. If you’re using a separate web cam, I’m guessing you already have that part mastered. I’ve also noticed that brighter lipstick than normal tends to read best. My day to day make up is usually a mauve brown. But I’ve been wearing more of a bright coral or a bright berry when I’m presenting webinars. And I agree that less eye is needed.
Anonymous
My teenager has one of those ring lights for her insta photos. I appropriate it for videoconferences.
Anonymous
I was surprised to make the same discovery about eye makeup. I expected I’d need more makeup, not less, but even my normal eye shadow reads as very dramatic on camera. I’ve switched to just one subtle color of eye shadow (I usually do a blended/shaded thing with three colors) plus eyeliner and mascara.
AnonATL
Does anyone know generally how long after infection you can test positive for Covid? I’ve seen some articles recently about people testing positive for months after (a doc in the bay area recently), but I can’t find anything “conclusive” about how long your average person tests positive.
My hospital is testing us upon arrival at L&D, which I am in favor of, but I am planning to re-institute a stricter household lockdown in preparation about 2-3 weeks before my due date to be extra cautious. I do have some concerns that if we caught it now, we could still be testing positive a month+ from now.
Before anyone jumps on me, we have been following social distancing and limiting our trips in public, but we would revert back to March-levels of grocery store only outings to be extra cautious. Don’t want my newborn being isolated from us, even if it is for his protection.
Anon
I am so afraid of this! The idea of being asymptomatic but then testing positive and having my baby taken away is terrifying to me.
AnonATL
It is scary. I can’t imagine the implications for PPD/A and parental bonding in general. We have local family so maybe one of them could watch the kid for 2 weeks while we quarantined (that’s the most extreme option from my OBs practice currently). I’m pretty sure I would absolutely lose it during those 2 weeks.
The doctor also suggested if you tested positive, they may just advise you wear mask, gloves, and a gown when taking care of baby, but that doesn’t seem like it would really make a big difference in keeping kiddo safe.
Goal is don’t get sick between now and delivery! Maybe easier said than done depending on your situation.
Anon
I admit that I have wondered about the relative risks of covid in a newborn vs. forced separation from caregivers immediately after birth. It seems very traumatic for everyone involved.
Anon
Is your hospital isolating newborns from parents who test positive? Piedmont ATL is not.
AnonATL
They aren’t force-isolating baby from mom as far as I’m aware, but they are strongly suggesting other precautions in my comment above which might be currently stuck in mod.
I’m up here at Kennestone in Cobb.
anon
Interesting, at Piedmont they’re just suggesting that you wear a mask while breastfeeding if you’re positive and be very careful about washing your hands.
Anon
MGH and another major Boston hospital is not.
Earning Differences
My boyfriend moved in with me for quarantine and it’s been 3 mostly-great months. We’ve started having more intensive conversations about our future and money is becoming a sore spot. He didn’t realize the difference in how much we made until we started spending more time here (for reference, I make about 7 times what he makes) and it’s become a bit of an issue as we talk about the future. For the reference, we have similar attitudes about money, savings, spending, etc., though he is definitely more frugal than me in certain ways, mostly driven by necessity. He has said that he feels weird when I work 12 hour days, as if I don’t have time for a relationship, and it feels weird that he should be home from work at 430 and I’m still at work another 4+ hours. Also, I said that I have no intent to stay home if/when we have children and he seemed a little taken aback at this. He was raised by a SAHM, so I think he may have somehow figured we would do the same (even though we couldn’t live on his salary in NYC, though it would probably be possible in other areas of the country). He has talked about getting a masters part-time while working full-time, and I said something about being able to cash-flow the tuition if we get engaged and move in together and he said something about “not wanting a sugar mama to support him.”
Are these things that can be addressed in pre-marital counseling? Has anyone else here gone through a similar situation?
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
It doesn’t sound like you guys are a fit. I mean, you can try to talk this out and get some counseling, but honestly, if someone always planned on being the breadwinner while their partner stayed home with the kids, that may not be something they can easily give up.
If I were working long hours and made significantly more money than my partner, and he didn’t like that, I wouldn’t waste too much time in that relationship. You need someone who’s supportive of your career, someone who appreciates the money you’re bringing home and not feel threatened by it. This guy may always, in the back of his mind, hope you’ll give yours up to be his housewife.
Senior Attorney
Yeah, this sounds like a fundamental incompatibility about what you expect your lives to be like.
Anonymous
+1. I found someone who gets my job sometimes means working long or unpredictable hours, and that has been key to our success as a couple. I dumped a needy guy who ended up cheating because he wasn’t getting enough attention.
Anon
+1000 this isn’t something that can be fixed with therapy. You have different values on things like career, money, parenting and possibly more. I would not waste my time on this relationship.
I significantly out earn my husband and work a lot. His support has been critical to my career. I have seen too many of my friends live through the frustration of having an unsupportive partner. If your career is important to you, this is not the right guy for you.
anon
Unfortunately, I agree. Long-term, it will be virtually impossible to be a career woman working 80 hours per week with a child and a less than supportive partner. It’s really hard when you have a supportive partner. It’s harder as a single parent. It’s impossible with an unsupportive partner who is threatened by your income and secretly hopes you’ll derail your career to be a stay at home mom.
Anon
I mean I think this is a pretty typical male reaction when they make 100k and their woman makes 700k or 50k v 350k. I realize everyone says therapy is the answer to everything but honestly is it going to change what he REALLY believes and the values he was raised with or is it just going to teach him to make the right noises in front of you about how it’s fine because it doesn’t bother him. I mean he sounds like a traditional man — working 9-5 and not one second more, expecting a SAHM to raise his kids and living on whatever that 9-5 brings in even if it isn’t much. That type of thinking was where it was at in the 60s-70s and even the 80s but times were also different because women didn’t have the opportunity to make 350k or 700k so of course they had to live on whatever salaries their husbands could provide and stay home and raise the kids.
LaurenB
“I mean I think this is a pretty typical male reaction when they make 100k and their woman makes 700k or 50k v 350k.”
Any man I’d ever want to date / marry would be ecstatic if his wife were amazingly successful. Ewwww to the kind of guy who is “threatened” by his wife making more.
Anon
Welp, there’s a lot of the former out there.
I hear you though. Already divorced one. I made more money year after year and he made less money year after year. His solution was that we should decline our quality of life rather than improve it to fit within his income. It was not workable- we were paying the same on a mortgage as we would be renting somewhere…he wanted me to only shop at thrift stores…etc.
I think it was an effort to prove that my hard work was just “extra.”
Anonymous
“expecting a SAHM to raise his kids and living on whatever that 9-5 brings in even if it isn’t much”
This is such an important point and a dynamic that has not come out in some of my friends’ marriages until very late in the game. Some men are raised with, and retain, an attitude that a woman’s job is to be a mother and if a woman is “properly motivated” she will be happy to stay home and live on whatever money the man makes, even if that is $40k a year for a family of four, and scrimp and save and do without and have her children do without so that he can retain his pride in providing and she can be home full time. There are cultural traditions around this idea that are very strong – that “good women make do” and figure out how to live on whatever Daddy brings home. To me, this is absolutely a toxic power dynamic and very harmful not just to the woman but to the children as well. It’s a dynamic that leads to domestic abuse in some cases. I know for myself, I want to live the lifestyle I want to live and I want to provide my children opportunities. I am willing to work hard and advance to get those things for my family. What I am not willing to do is take a backseat to my husband’s beliefs to preserve his pride and watch my children go without because he won’t “let” me work, or work as hard as I feel I need to. F that.
anonshmanon
Best case scenario, he will need a lot of time to adjust his thinking and expectations. He comes at this situation from a very different background, and 7 times his salary is pretty steep, imo. Maybe it can still work out, but it won’t be ok overnight. I’d think that a lot of transparency around money, but also discussing values and outlook re: things other than money would be needed. Clearly he won’t be ‘the provider’ for your family. So he needs to develop a new idea for an identity and role in the relationship, that’s not trivial.
Anonymous
+1 This is not really a small discussion about money. This is a pretty big thing that relates to lifestyle, to the kinds of circles where you will be making friends (I imagine your job and colleagues will put you into very different circles than his will), to how you will raise kids, etc. And it sounds like your job will always require lots and lots of time. Which affects things like being home for dinner when you have kids, where and how you vacation, how available you need to be to your job even when not there, etc. A 7x difference is a LOT. I don’t think it’s unusual that a young man would struggle with and need to work through identity questions when married to someone whose career and lifestyle is necessarily so different from his.
anonshmanon
to be fair, I think I would also grapple with that if the roles were reversed. I think eventually DH could make 3-5 times of what I make, at some point, but we started out on an even footing, and our salaries are growing at different rates at the moment. It’s important to me that I am able to ‘hold my own’ in our shared finances for example.
Anon
Yikes. I would definitely want to see him working on these issues (either in individual or couple’s counseling) before moving forward in the relationship. Resentment about money is a recipe for disaster. Right now it seems like it’s mostly on his side (not wanting a sugar mama, feelings about you making more, wanting you to be open to being a SAHM), but moving forward if you make changes for him there could also be some on your side.
Anon
This is kind of harsh and I don’t think it’s fair to put all the responsibility on the BF for what is ultimately a disagreement in values. I don’t think it’s impossible to overcome, but it’s not inherently a bad problem that the BF needs to fix on his own.
Never too many shoes...
I completely disagree.
Having discussions about the future and a shared vision of what life could be like and what that what entail from each partner is totally reasonable.
Being surprised that a high achiever does not want to stay home with babies is 100% a bad problem and one that the BF needs to fix on his own. Being threatened by his partner’s earning capacity and whining about how much she works to earn that money is 100% a bad problem and one that the BF needs to fix on his own.
Anon
No, it’s not a problem he *has* to fix. They could break up, which would probably be the best outcome if they are fundamentally incompatible on values.
CountC
He doesn’t have to fix it, he just needs to be in a relationship with someone whose values and expectations line up with his. There are women who want to stay home and not work and that’s their choice and fine, the OP just isn’t one of them.
asdfasdf
It’s great you’re talking about this now! I’m the breadwinner in my own relationship and it was definitely a mental adjustment for me (also, I make 1.5 times what my husband earns, not as jarring a difference). I was raised in a fairly traditional household by a SAHM. I never thought I would quit work for kids, but my parents did. I did think, however, that I would marry someone who made more than I do and it took me a while to get used to the idea of being the person who was primarily responsible for supporting my family. Give your boyfriend some time to get used to the idea of having a family that looks very different from his family or origin.
But… stick to your guns. Don’t offer to make concessions that you aren’t willing to make. That said, do you see yourself working 12 hours a day with very young kids? If you plan to step back (not step out) for a few years when the kids are small? Talk about what you do and do not see in your future. This is hard stuff, and people don’t turn on on dime.
Cat
+1, it’s taken my parents a good decade to adjust to the fact that I am the primary breadwinner (though the margin has gone from 4x to 1.5x since I started in Biglaw and he started as a law clerk… now we are both in house).
His gut reactions, though, are not promising — a man expecting to work a 9-5 with a wife and kids at home, and reacts to using your income for a joint goal as a “sugar mama” — red flags to me. If you stay in this career and with him, sounds like a recipe for you constantly having to reassure him of his own masculinity…. hard pass.
Amber
I think a lot of it depends on his attitude. My ex made far less than me and gave me a really hard time about working so much, how much he hated corporate America (and expecting me to feel the same), etc. My husband also makes far less than me but appreciates what I do, always tells me how much I contribute to the family, picks up the slack with household/child care etc. (and in the same way, I try to express appreciation to him for what he does). So I think it depends on whether your partner is supportive of what you do and comfortable with his own situation and what he can/will contribute (recognizing that it isn’t just about who brings in more money and there are other ways for him to help out). It can be tricky but it is possible for it to work out. Good luck!
Anon
I think from the post though it is clear he is more like your ex. The question is, can he change?
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
I had that thought too, like sometimes you just assume your life is gonna go in a certain direction because that was the standard modeled for you growing up, but then when it starts veering in another direction you’re like “oh okay, I can roll with this too!” because you were never really married to that initial idea anyway. Other times, it’s more of a “wait, no, this isn’t how things were supposed to go, this isn’t right, is it too late to turn around??” and based on how OP worded her post, I kind of assumed that was more or less her boyfriend’s reaction, the way he was taken aback by this sudden revelation that she had no plans to give up her career and stay home with the kids.
Anon
The SAHM concern would alarm me.
To be fair, maybe he’s just never given much thought about it until this conversation and that was just the first time it occurred to him it might be different than what he subconsciously envisioned, so maybe it would be fair to check back in on this to see if his thinking has evolved. I would also point out the realities of what life would be like if you did his vision on his salary – like research what childcare costs & highlight that relative to his salary. Visions are all fun and games until the bills are due.
But yeah, these are some tough issues to get around. The thing I always think about is once you get married and have kids, things just get (much) harder in the relationship, not easier. If you are in the right relationship, still worth it, but harder. So if you are already having these alarm bells before these incrementally hard things… that would be concerning to me.
Anon
I agree re: this might be the first time it’s ever even occurred to him that his partner might not be a SAHM and it very well could be that he just needs some time to readjust his thinking. But if he doesn’t, then I think they’re just not compatible.
Anonymous
This was my husband. Raised in a small town where it was a measure of success that he could support a household should his spouse want to do the SAH thing. He hadn’t thought through how having dual careers could be more financially stable in the event of death/disability/job loss. Once we started dating, his view evolved quickly. He’s very proud, supportive of and grateful for my professional career and readily admits he was wrong before.
Senior Attorney
Coming back to say that I’ve been the high earner in two of my three marriages (this time we kind of trade off depending on the vagaries of Hubby’s law practice). I am here to tell you that while men get brownie points for being a “good provider,” women generally get demerits, and you are seeing that already with the “sugar mama” nonsense. You may well find that you will be expected to be extra deferential or whatever to make up for the gigantic injury to his ego that is your earning power. And also your working long hours will likely be considered an injury to the family, rather than a benefit. So beware.
anon
+1. Adding that no matter who you marry, society (your employer, your kid’s teachers, other parents, maybe your families) will generally see your working long hours as an injury to the family rather than a benefit. If your husband also feels that way, it’s demoralizing and isolating. This is one issue where you guys need to be on the same page with an “us against the world” mentality because the world is changing too slowly.
Anon
Totally on the demerits. Such a good way to look at it.
I’ve historically earned 3-5x what my husband earns. Sometimes he gets resentful because he is a “worker bee” while I (used to) travel a lot and go to a lot of events that he sees as boondoggles. They’re not, they’re a lot of work, and the dinners after events are more work, even though they sound like fun to him. But he appreciates the paycheck and has always been proud of me for my successes along the way.
My mom, on the other hand, told me I’d drive men away by being high-earning. Ha!
So much this
Oops, I did NOT mean to report your comment Senior Attorney!
Wanted to say +1 to this: “You may well find that you will be expected to be extra deferential or whatever to make up for the gigantic injury to his ego that is your earning power.”
I made about 5x what my ex-bf did and paid for almost all expenses, dates, etc. He was an amazing cook, and he took advantage of his abundance of free time to shop and cook wonderful meals for us at least 3x weekly. This seemed like a great arrangement and it was UNTIL my work blew up. I became so exhausted that I couldn’t properly enjoy the dinners and then shower him with attention in the bedroom. I just wanted to sleep. After only 2 weeks of this, my bf was sitting on the bed and telling me that I needed to find another way to keep him around (!). He was also totally unsympathetic to my very real concerns that my job was in jeopardy during the entire ordeal. I told him to GTFO.
Anon
It sounds like you two are incompatible. I don’t see how this is fixed with counseling unless this is really the first time you’ve discussed these things and maybe he was caught off guard. I would move on. I’ve made at least twice what my husband makes for the entirety of our marriage. But I was in school and making almost nothing when we met, while he was older and had established a career (in a lower paying field). Difference is he’s always supported my career (including fully supporting us financially while I was in law school short of paying tuition) and is proud of my work even if he doesn’t go out of his way to tell friends that I make a lot more. He’s pushing me to lean in for partnership in the next couple years, even where I’ve wavered about it, and is the primary caregiver for our toddler and baby. He works 8:30-5 while I was in big law and now moved to midlaw. He was also raised by a SAHM but just didn’t enter our relationship with the attitude that I would do the same. Also think of the judgment you’d face from his family. I have from my MIL and it’s so important that your husband stands up for the choices your family made. It sounds like you two have fundamental differences (and a much bigger pay disparity that will probably continue to hurt his ego).
Anon
I feel like I could have written this exact post.
Never too many shoes...
Girl, run. A boyfriend who is shocked that you do not intent to quit work when you make 7x what he does is a man with fundamentally different values than you. The fact that he is already complaining that you work more than he does might feign being on board with continuing as you are, but will continue to whine and guilt you going forward and the resentment will destroy your relationship. This guy is not your lobster.
Senior Attorney
Pretty much this, at the end of the day.
The original Scarlett
+1 – I wouldn’t be up for waiting for someone to catch up to me in terms of support and values, even if he’s “open” you’re starting from a bad place. I’d cut my losses and avoid the sunk cost fallacy
Anon
Wow, none of this sounds good. It sounds like he is coming from a very butt-hurt place about you making more money so is using every aspect of it to insult you (long hours, no SAHM, “sugar mama.”)
You should be proud that you earn 7x as much! Seriously, GO YOU!!!
I think if you move forward with this guy, you probably need to have separate money. If you commit, you definitely absolutely don’t even think about it need a pre-nup.
But I’m guessing his attitude about this is something you’re not going to get past, I’m sorry to say.
You are right, he is wrong, and he’s being a baby.
Anon
Yes, this!
You don’t need this negativity.
Anne
Unfortunately I agree with this. In couples I know where the woman makes way more, than man is proud of her and happy to do his part to support her career, which in turn supports their lifestyle. Your salary is a benefit not a liability and its pretty telling that he doesn’t see that as a big plus. My husband and I are always pretty happy when the other person makes more than us because it means more for our family.
Elderlyunicorn
I hear what everyone is saying but I don’t think you need to break up with him – yet. If you’ve only been living together for 3 months and are just starting the hard conversations about money, I would give him time to adjust. He may have always had a picture of his future that was more “traditional” … but now that he’s aware something else is possible, is he willing to sit with it, to consider it, to reshape his ideas of a future with you?
You say that he’s responsible and frugal – I can’t imagine someone who is used to being self-reliant suddenly saying “Sure! I’d love for you to foot the bill for my grad school!”
At this point, I’d look at other indicators … is he a supportive partner in other ways? Is he open-minded and willing to consider other viewpoints? Why does he want a master’s degree? Does he have plans for his career? Does he have interests or passions that could keep him engaged from 4:30 pm to 8:00 pm?
Give him some time to enter 2020 with the rest of us, but maybe not too much time.
Anonymous
Short response from me. I have a friend who got divorced over dynamics like this in her marriage. It’s a long story full of a lot of pain and heartbreak. They had a kid before they got divorced and that has been a mess. OP, there’s a lot of heartburn you can avoid by not marrying this guy. Please listen to everyone who has chimed in on this thread.
Anon
The SAHM expectation would send me running for the hills. No way, no how. Boy, bye.
Anon
I just don’t have a lot of sympathy for a guy who, in 2020, expects his wife to be a SAHM as the default because she is the woman. Like, no. You need to work through those mindsets before you enter into a long term relationship with me.
Anon
Late to this, but RUN! This is about so much more than money. Being concerned about an earning difference in the sense of how it affects lifestyle and spending ability is totally valid, imo (e.g., are you going to want vacations in overwater huts in Bora Bora while he wants camping trips? These are good things to talk through before you get married, especially with a substantial difference in income). But the whole thing about wanting you to be a SAHM, without ever even entertaining the notion of being a SAHD himself, is totally separate than money and to me is much more concerning. I think if you marry him you’ll spend the rest of your life feeling like he doesn’t support your career ambitions or appreciate your hard work, and he’ll spend the rest of his life being resentful that you’re not a SAHM. Or, more likely, you won’t spend the rest of your lives that way because you’ll get divorced. I would recommend reading Fleishman is in Trouble if you haven’t already.
Sasha
I posted this yesterday later in the afternoon and an anon suggested I repost for a few more perspectives:
I think I know what I need to do here, but hoping to get some perspective/commiseration from people with more professional experience. This is about my current job, my second one out of college. I’ve been working for about 3 years.
I was hired into what was supposed to be a tech development role in May ’19, which was quickly changed into a usage and adoption role (basically selling this new and frankly unpopular tech capability into the various teams of the large organization where I work) about 10 days after I started due to a restructure. I would not have taken what the job became, as the role I left it for was in tech development and that’s where I see my career being long-term. But the new job paid a lot more money so I stuck with it.
It’s been a year now and while I love my direct team, I am miserable. I consider it a good week if I only cried once after work. The work is mind-numbing, time-consuming, and the teams I support are actively hostile to me. I’ve tried twice now to lobby for a transfer into a different role and have been denied both times. The feedback from my management is super positive but I’ve been told under no uncertain terms that they will not let me rotate until they have to (I can apply for other internal positions without management approval starting in November), despite knowing how unhappy I am, because I’m doing a good job and it would be too hard to find someone to replace me.
I’ve sent out some resumes but unsurprisingly hiring is slow or stopped, and I figure it’s probably not a great idea to switch jobs right now anyway. I feel so trapped and sad, even as I’ve been trying to lean out more and care less about it all. I know the best thing to do right now is grin and bear it until the winter, but the prospect of that is really disheartening. I’m so lucky to have a job in a field that has been largely unaffected by the crisis but the whole situation is killing me.
Would appreciate if anyone has any perspective, advice about how to let a hostile work environment slip off my back more, and/or advice on how to turn off “work brain” when I shut my laptop for the day when my workload causes me so much stress during the day
Anonymous
I view my career as cycles, some of which are wonderful, some are OK, and a few are terrible. It’s difficult to deal with the terrible cycle, but you have to be able to remind yourself it’s just one cycle of a long career. At one point in my career, after a game of musical chairs, I ended up with a role that I wasn’t suited for, and didn’t want, reporting to a peer that I did not respect. I did the work that was expected of me, and made sure that my users really liked me. Honestly, my proudest memory of that time is I managed to speak with my boss only once in six months. That was really unlike me, but in the end — it didn’t matter! No one ever said anything about it. Eventually, our most senior boss got pushed out, we got a new a boss that was able to meet with me during his second week, he liked me, and I got a great job.
My advice is you appear to know the role or types of roles you want next, but you can’t apply until November. Stop lobbying people that have told you they won’t help you, and start creating work relationships with people that can help you get where you want to go. It may still take until November, but you will feel like you are progressing because you are working towards where you want to be. This shouldn’t be just senior people, but people at all levels because that will give you more insight into future roles, and you never know where a lead will come from.
It it is any comfort, I look back on that time in that horrible role and snicker that I literally never spoke to or interacted with my boss, and no one knew or cared.
Anonymous
This is seriously such great advice -especially not banging your head against the wall lobbying people for things they’ve said they won’t do, and refocusing that effort on building relationships so you can move in November.
Sasha
Thank you so much. This is great advice and i can definitely see how this will help me get into a different headspace with work!
Moonstone
I lived through something similar, and my advice is to reiterate to yourself that this is just one period in a long career. I literally carried a resignation letter around with me for 6 months before I was able to quit. This place is not good for you, so definitely focus on job searching. Please start reading Ask a Manager for practical tips.
zoom birthday
I was feeling very down about spending my birthday alone in isolation in my NYC apartment and decided the day before to have a 2-hour zoom meeting to which I invited basically all my friends from different parts of my life (around 50 people, from everything from summer camp 30 years ago to friends I met last year). I wasn’t sure what to expect or if it would be super awkward. Most people did not know each other and tend toward being introverts.
About 40 showed up overall at different times and it was really nice–lots of good conversations, reconnections with people I haven’t seen in a long time due to distance/kids/not being incredibly close friends, even new connections between people who didn’t know each other. It made me feel better about my life and remember how many awesome friends I have, even if I am single and not happy about it in the middle of a pretty scary dark time. Just wanted to recommend this to anyone who might be in a similar situation and on the fence about it.
Anon
I love this! I am turning 40 soon and considering this. I wondered if it would be awkward, but I love hearing that it was not!
Did you have any structure to the event (breakout rooms, trivia, etc.), or just let people chat naturally?
Anonymous
I didn’t structure it…I thought about it but I was not organized enough to make it happen in time! I tried to draw some connections between people who didn’t know each other (eg, X and Y were both my roommates at different times, A and B are both writing graphic novels), to let people know how I was connected to everyone, sometimes told funny stories/memories about my interactions with a particular friend or how I met them. There were enough people that someone always kept conversation flowing. At most times I had 10 – 16 people there which was a good number for conversation.
I had a short list of questions to ask/stuff to talk about in case was dead air, but there wasn’t really! Someone always had something to say.
Happy early birthday!
Anonymous
Oh, I had one thing: should I buy myself a particular extravagant fun gift for my birthday. People weighed in with tips about how to choose one, what kind, etc. So that was an overall topic everyone could weigh in on…
Anon
just a psa. if you have any flights booked rather than prematurely canceling, try to wait as long as possible. i had a 3 part trip booked on Southwest and stops were added to 2 of the 3 flights. i was planning on canceling anyway, but i was able to get a refund rather than travel credit bc Southwest’s policy is that if they make changes like that to your flight, you can get a refund no questions asked. you do have to call to do this – if you cancel on the website you just get travel funds. also, when i called it said that due to long wait times I should try to resolve it online, but if I want to stay on the line they will tell me the estimated wait time…which was only 2 minutes, so don’t hang up too soon.
Cat
+1, we have done this with American, JetBlue, and United as well. Calling is the key – airlines do not make it easy to get actual cash back online.
Anon
American actually has a website where you can submit the refund requests. prefunds.aa.com
I got a refund with no issue when a stopover was added to my itinerary.
Cat
Yep, that’s what I used, but I speak with a human first as I think it’s faster.
Airplane.
I believe adding stops is a “significant chang”e in your flight and you are entitled to a refund (and you do not have to accept travel credit or a voucher even if they offer it) pursuant to a DoT rule. The DoT says that carriers have an obligation to provide a prompt refund to a ticketed passenger when the carrier cancels the passenger’s flight or makes a significant change in the flight schedule and the passenger chooses not to accept the alternative offered by the carrier.
So if they add stops to your flight which was booked non-stop, don’t accept a credit or voucher they offer and demand a refund. If the airline balks, cite the DoT rule and say you will file a DoT complaint if you are not refunded.
givemyregards
+1 I was waiting to cancel a United flight and this worked for me. It was weird b/c I got a text message saying the flight was canceled, but everything still looked the same online. I waited 24 hours just to see if the website would update and when it didn’t, called them and was able to get a refund.
Anonymous
I waited and Delta ended up cancelling my flight but still just gave me a credit. I’ve emailed demanding a refund but it’s been about a month and I haven’t heard back. I’m sure they’re bombarded by emails right now but I’m pretty frustrated they didn’t give me a refund at the beginning when they cancelled the flight.
Anon
That’s illegal. I would fight it. Involve your credit card company if necessary.
Anonymous
I went back to the gym last night after 2 1/2 months and wanted to share for other gym-goers out there who may be returning to their workouts soon.
– Our gym has completely revamped their cleaning protocols – they have extra people working and they go around continually wiping down machines. When I entered the gym they directed me to pick up a bottle of spray disinfectant and a clean washcloth and instructed me I needed to thoroughly wipe down any machine after use, and not doing so would result in ejection from the gym. Everyone I saw followed the instructions.
– The gym was not any busier than it usually is when I go (7 p.m. on a weeknight) but wasn’t any less busy, either. Every other cardio machine was blocked off with sign about social distancing. I did my usual 30 min of cardio and no one got on a machine anywhere near me. The closest anyone got to me the entire hour I was there was one of the workers, who was masked, who came over to tell me the gym was closing in 30 minutes.
– I had been trying to maintain fitness at home, doing FitnessBlender HIIT workouts, cycling, doing rebounding workouts on a trampoline, and also doing freeweight exercises with 15 lb dumbbells. I was fully aware that doing that was not going to help me maintain my strength completely. I was taken aback at what I could and couldn’t do easily. Tricep extensions were absolutely no problem. Chest press, I was doing 3 x 20 reps at 60lbs prior to shutdown and last night I could only do 3 x 12 reps at 40 lbs and that was probably more effort than I should have put in. Leg press was fine; adductor/abductor machine was REALLY difficult. It’s going to take me some time in the gym to get back to where I was, much less make progress. I am trying to be level about it but it is emotionally hard to realize how much ground I’ve lost. But I’ll get it back.
It was awesome to be back in the gym. Things that had been hurting a little – one knee; my upper back – feel better this morning after working some things out. I’m really glad to be able to go again and plan to go back Thursday and Sunday.
Anon
Where do you live? Curious where it is that gyms are back to normal busy
Anonymous
I have gone back to my gym but only to use the outdoor lap pool. I go at 4AM on weekdays and 5AM on weekends (the hours at which they gym opens; it fits well with when I start my workday; and I am trying to avoid as many people as possible). My gym is surprisingly busy at that time — not the outdoor pool, I am usually the only person in the pool. I skip the locker room and just drive home wet. I know my gym has done a lot of re-spacing the equipment and is cleaning everything constantly. I am just really not comfortable with exercising indoors with other people, even if they are more than 6 feet away. My state’s numbers are really going up with the highest reported number of new cases yesterday — so I am just not willing to take any unnecessary risks (although my husband sees my 4AM swims as an unnecessary risk).
Sadly, just as I started to get into a habit and rhythm that worked for me each morning, our governor instituted a curfew — so I am getting an unexpected week off from the pool.
Cat
Were gym users wearing masks in addition to staff?
The research I’ve seen about how the virus is transmitted by sharing the same air as the same people for a sustained period of time is offputting for heavy-breathing activities like gyms.
Anonymous
Then don’t go. That’s certainly your right.
Anonymous
It’s hard to discern the intention behind this question. Are you wanting information that will help you make your own decisions about whether to go to a gym, or are you trying to dissuade OP from going to hers if people aren’t wearing masks?
Cat
sorry, trying to consider how the risks of indoor air-sharing could be mitigated given the evidence I’ve been reading. Gyms aren’t open in my area yet so interested in how places are handling it. That’s what I get for posting while multi tasking…
Anonymous
Can’t we just assume the intention is curiously? People here are too quick to reach for the boxing gloves.
Anon
When it comes to people posting about doing things like this, the intention behind replies is rarely good.
Anon
Our gyms are open in my city/state. No, generally people aren’t wearing masks. The gym I go to (boutique) allows 10 people max per class, but most of the time it is around 4 plus the trainer. People are spread out, there are dividers, you have your own equipment plus cleaning supplies, doors are open for air flow. I am well aware that it is a high risk activity and that I will likely get covid if one of the other attendees is shedding the virus. I have still been going, mostly because I have literally no other interactions with humans in my life right now and the gym is my happy place. Pre-covid, I had two gym memberships and went twice per day most days. I haven’t been back to the larger gym, but will likely go next week to start swimming.
Anonymous
Looking for recommendations for a leave in conditioner and some sort of conditioning/treatment product that goes on dry hair (thinking along the terms of Drybar Detox Dry Conditioner or BB Hairdresser’s Invisible Oil Spray? Idk I’ve never used either??) Thank you! Hair is long, straitghtish, normal to thin density, color treated.
Anon
Are you wanting to use it before showering as a pre-shower treatment? Or more like in place of dry shampoo? If it’s more in place of dry shampoo my favorite one is the dry bar one you mentioned or the Kristen was one. I have used invisible oil/ verb ghost oil. Those make my hair greasy if used overall, but can work well to just refresh ends.
Anonymous
In place of/in conjunction with dry shampoo, hoping there is something beneficial I can do for my hair on days I don’t wash it I guess.
Anon
Ok that makes sense. I’d give one of the dry conditioners a try then, to be honest I find them all pretty similar. I did a quick search, and I’m not finding one now but Ulta and Sephora have had them in those trial kits before. If you can find a sampler kit it could help you see which ones work best for your hair type.
HousecounseI
I like the amika brand at Sephora.
Anonymous
There’s a previously unpublished Hemingway story at The New Yorker (no paywall) for any Hemingway fans.
PNW
Thanks for sharing!
car anon
Has anyone sold a very old car? Any ideas on what to do with a 35-year old mercedes? It runs & is in good condition so don’t really want to just donate it for scrap, but also really don’t want it lingering. I am not at all a car person. How do I figure out value?
Anonymous
Not sure how far back it goes, but try searching Kelly Blue Book first for values. My husband has sold several cars (and helped friends sell cars) on Auto Trader (with the paid for 30 days post), so you can see what similar cars on there are selling for.
I’d also see if there is a Mercedes “club” in your city/town/region and reach out them about both values and if any of their members would be interested. Finally, to reach a slightly broader audience, you can see if your area has a Cars and Coffee meetup and try to contact those organizers, who might know another method for assessing a value for the car.
You can also donate the car – NPR is always advertising it on my local station, and I think Goodwill takes cars a well?
Anon
Checks my garage. OK, good, mine’s still there.
Look at Autotrader to get a feel for what the car is going for, then post it asking a little bit less.
Keep in mind geography (ie, exclude California cars. Their emissions stuff changes the equation a bit).
If you live somewhere that doesn’t require inspections, you’ll probably sell it really quickly. If you live somewhere that has a smog test and it won’t pass, you may end up holding onto it longer, depending on what’s needed.
1985 is a good year for Mercedes. It’s the last year the W-123 body was made and among the last of the hand-built Mercedes. I love mine and need to drive it more.
LittleBigLaw
There is definitely a hobbyist market for cars like yours, but it takes more effort than just selling back to a dealership. For value, I’d start with Hemmings, which is a reputable publication and marketplace for “classic cars” that has a value estimator similar to Kelly Blue Book. You can also search similar listings on their site or even on Ebay for comparison.
Anonymous
Do you have a regular mechanic you use? He/she might be interested or might know someone who would be.
Anonymous
We had an older car that we no longer needed and I didn’t want to sell it myself. I contacted the auto shop at the local high school and they were able to use it for their classes. That might be an option as well.
Anon
You can donate it. There are plenty of charities that accept old cars and they’ll give you a receipt and a value for it.
Anon
Check Bring a Trailer dot com
Ms B
Talk to the local independent mechanic who handles this marque. They generally know when the hobbyist crowd gets together (around here is it likely to be “at the Sonic at the end of Main Street on Saturdays at 8 pm”) or who the primary contact is for that group. I expect that there is more than one person out there who would be happy to pay you fair market value to have a vintage car that they can restore (and whether the engine is original or not).
For the value question, I agree with the poster who cited Hemmings Motor News as a good source to determine value. It also may be a good place to sell, so long as you understand that your best buyer may be someone who will have to come in from out of town. My FIL and his car club pals pore over those ads to find their next “project”.
Anonie
An admittedly shallow little topic: what do you personally consider the perfect carat size for an engagement ring? What’s your favorite style of ring? Yes, I am well aware that it is 10,000% the sentiment behind the ring that matters. And furthermore, yes, the world has much more important issues to discuss right now. As a person of color who is recently engaged, I thought this might be a fun, sparkly (and petty) little discussion in the middle of a stressful week.
JTM
To answer your question, I think 1.5 carats is the sweet spot but it’s dependent on a lot of factors like stone shape & the setting.
I actually really love my engagement ring – it’s an oval shaped center stone with channel set diamonds on either side, and the channel set diamonds get smaller as you get closer to the center. The combo of the oval center stone & the channel set diamonds makes my center stone appear bigger than it is. It’s been 5+yrs and I still get compliments on my engagement ring.
Anonie
That sounds gorgeous and right up my alley! A couple of my friends LOVE solitaires with simple gold or platinum bands, but I like a “unique” setting. When we picked out my ring together, I was actually way more worried about the setting than the diamond size haha :)
Sasha
Congrats on your engagement! I can only say this as someone who has looked at rings online (not engaged) but I think 1.5 is the sweet spot. I love the trend right now of solitary stones on a plain band, with square-style cuts with rounded corners like Ascher, Cushion (my personal choice), or Radiant.
Anonie
Asscher cuts are SO pretty. I love that they are classic yet a little “different.”
pugsnbourbon
I agree! They are really lovely.
Panda Bear
Congrats!
It really depends on the combination of the ring and your hand. I used to think I was looking for at least 1 carat, but when trying on different styles of rings, I realized that smaller carat stones looked great too, depending on the setting and style. I love jewelry from the art deco period, and I ended up with a 1930’s multi-stone filigree ring. The main stone is probably only about a third of a carat, but the overall effect on my hand is as dramatic and sparkly as I ever could have wanted.
Anonie
On that sounds really stunning! My fiance and I picked out my ring together and we ended up buying new from a local jewelry store, but I really considered steering him towards vintage options at one point. I think I may look for a vintage right-hand ring down the road.
Panda Bear
There are lots of beautiful vintage style reproductions out there too, if you like the look but want new. I highly recommend Market Square Jewelers’ Elizabeth Henry collection.
Also funny you say that, because I actually now wear my engagement ring mostly on my right hand. A few years ago DH bought me lovely gemstone solitaire that also looks lovely with my wedding band, so I started swapping the engagement ring over on the other side. I love jewelry … while I knew I could commit to this man forever, I can’t commit to just one ring!
Anonie
Committing to one just ring is a much weightier task haha! Your gemstone solitaire sounds lovely. Thanks for the recommendation to check out Market Square Jewelers. I wasn’t previously familiar with them, but it sounds like I’d love their work. I’ve never been a big jewelry wearer before, but it feels like getting engaged has suddenly opened my eyes to this whole new world of shiny stuff :)
AnonATL
Same. I have an art deco style ring and the center stone is less than a carat, but because it’s shallow but wide (the carat volume is in its width not depth) and flanked by a lot of other stones, it still takes up a decent area of my finger and is very sparkly. I didn’t want a high-setting I would bump against things.
My ring isn’t antique, because I couldn’t find a local jeweler I liked with a good selection, but I also seem to recall there being common issues with the delicateness of antique rings. Maybe they were softer metals or the prong architecture was different.. don’t remember exactly.
anon
Mine is .75 carat and flanked by two sapphires. I have small hands, and the size is perfect. It doesn’t “suit” my current lifestyle (BigLaw partner), but anything bigger would look weird.
Anonie
It sounds so beautiful! I love the look of sapphires and white diamonds together.
Jess
I think that sounds great for a Big Law partner actually. My Mom’s .75 ring looks nice on my short but average width fingers, and since yours has sidestones it would be even bigger.
The original Scarlett
I went for a vintage ring too that I just love. I will say it’s a little delicate for every day every day, so I also got a moissainite ascher (sp?) cut 3-stone (middle is around 1.5 carat and sides are .5) that I really can wear for every day and love. I am a jewelry person and am team multiple rings :)
Anonymous
2 carat diamond IF D well cut emerald cut for me, set in white gold.
Anonie
That sounds really beautiful (and sizable)! I love emerald cuts and was gravitating towards them we first started ring shopping, but my now fiance’s biggest request that was I *not* pick out an emerald cut ha. He knows so little about jewelry and yet had a vendetta against emerald cuts haha. Ah men!
Anonymous
Yes to be clear I do not own this ring but it is my dream!
Anonie
Hahah! Totally understand :)
Never too many shoes...
I am also an emerald cut club member. Mine is about a carat, with two pretty big baguettes on either side. 16 years and I still love it.
That said, am eyeing a 1.5 carat with a halo for my right hand because I love jewels.
RILawyer
Another emerald cut club member here. Mine is also about a carat and is flanked by two rubies (each about 1/2 carat). I absolutely love it and get compliments on it all the time. Something about that pop of color I think.
Rocks
1.75 carat emerald cut diamond- I picked the cut and solitaire style and my now husband upgraded the size!
Anon
I’m a big fan of vintage rings. My boyfriend and I are looking at rings, and I think I’ll end up with something vintage around .5 carats. We’re both public interest attorneys, and this would fit our budget and lifestyle.
Anonie
Congrats on your upcoming engagement! How wonderful. I used to be a little cynical about dating but, since getting engaged, I am in this little love bubble where I get so excited when I hear of other couples making that step ha.
pugsnbourbon
I love browsing the rings on Eragem – I got a targeted ad on Insta from them and got sucked in. Tons of gorgeous vintage rings, some with really interesting cuts and accents.
Anon
This is the kind of ring I have. It belonged to my fiance’s great-grandmother and I was thrilled when his mother offered it to him/us. It has a .5 carat diamond in a fairly large and very intricate filigree setting that takes up a good bit of the space between my hand and my first knuckle. I love it so much and get compliments on it all the time.
Anon
Also a huge fan of vintage rings, and the prices for estate jewelry can’t be beat.
I have a .35 heart-cut solitaire from the 1940s, and the older-style setting has larger, more protective prongs (including a V-prong for the bottom point) than do newer floating settings. Those older, more substantial settings play more of a role in the ring as whole, whereas the newer settings are meant to fade into the background and make larger solitaires the showpiece.
IMO you can’t beat those older-style settings for any type of cut that has sharp edges and needs more protection (heart, marquise, pear, trilliant, etc.). If I wanted a more traditional, rounder cut, I’d probably prefer the modern settings, and thus a larger stone.
I also suggest deciding on bands at the same time. We ended up choosing wide matching bands with intricate scrollwork, and the two rings together take up a lot of real estate on my stubby fingers (almost knuckle to knuckle). If I’d gone for a larger e-ring, I would have had to downsize the band.
Anon
I don’t think there is a perfect size. It is highly dependant on the ring design and the size of the hands of the wearer. But my primary focus when I got engaged was to get a ring that was either vintage or 100% upcycled, to me pretty things just aren’t worth the social injustices.
Anonie
I respect that so much! Good for you for finding a ring that aligned with your values.
Thanks, It Has Pockets!
This has been very much on my mind these days because, while we’re not engaged, my boyfriend and I recently had a talk about rings and now I have the green light to show him styles I like. I have been waiting MONTHS (okay, uh, maybe years) for this! I’m assembling a folder of bookmarks to show him at some point, but I’ve shown him a few here and there already.
One thing I’m drawn to is the detail under the ring. I am in love with the Vera Wang Love collection that has a little sapphire under the main diamond, and when I showed my boyfriend that I thought he’d think that’s a ridiculous thing to spend money on, no one’s gonna see it, I’m clearly a materialistic jerk, but no, he actually thought that was cool!
Aside from that, I love little details around the stone, like milligrain, filigree and pave (not all at once, but stuff like that makes me go “oooh”) and floral halos.
Not sure about carat though. Doesn’t have to be big. I actually think I care more about clarity than size.
Anonie
Ah that’s so exciting! I just googled the Vera Wang Love collection to see what you mean and the “hidden” gemstone detail is so special. I love that. I also prioritized pave and detail over carat size! I love that my ring feels intricate and personal.
Anonymous
Look at single stone – they’re a designer that creates vintage-inspired styles using old diamonds!
Anonymous
The answer is the carat weight you want minus .05-.10 carat. A .95 stone cost a lot less than a 1.0 stone. Or .9.
anonn
I have large hands ( I’m 5’10, wear a size 11 shoe for reference) and have a 1 carat center stone. On most women who’ve tried on my ring, it looks huge! the jeweler asked my husband how tall I was and said I’d need at least a carat. Though its interesting to me that people are saying 1.5, I think its a regional thing. I live in a mid-sized city in the midwest, wear huge rings and LV bags are less common, than you see in bigger cities or the coasts.
NY CPA
Agree with this. I’m not especially tall, but I have quite fat fingers, so they just dwarf stones. 1 ct stones look really underwhelming on me. Personally, I think 2-3 ct stones look best on my hands. My favorite setting is the Tiffany Novo style–cushion cut solitare, small diamonds all along band.
Anon
so i thought i wanted a round stone either with baguettes on the side or a 3 stone round ring. went to try some on and i hated the way that both of those looked on my finger. ended up falling in love with a 3 stone oval and it’s been almost 10 years since i got engaged and i still LOVE it. when i first got it I thought maybe it was too big, but now think it is perfect or could maybe be a tiny bit bigger. pre-covid, when I went to places like starbucks or even the doctor’s office, I still receive compliments on it all the time. i think it is important to try them on as kind of like an article of clothing, just because it looks good in a picture or on a model, doesn’t mean you will necessarily like the way it looks on you. also, if you get something with a lot of tiny stones, make sure they are set well as i have a friend whose stones kept falling out and she ended up trading hers in for a solitare
Teal
Mine is a 2.3 carat emerald cut solitaire in white gold and I L O V E it. It’s pretty unique and I get comments on it a lot. For reference, I’m 6 ft tall and have really long fingers, so we wanted something that didn’t look disproportionate on my hand.
Also, think about how you want your engagement ring to play with a wedding band. I dislike when there is a gap between the engagement ring & wedding band, so my fiancee specifically looked for a setting where the diamond sat up high enough to slide a wedding band right next to the engagement ring.
Congrats on the engagement!
Mal
I personally don’t like large diamonds – it’s way more about the design and how it fits your hand than the carat weight. Also, I prefer settings where the stones are flush to the ring surface – not prong set – so it doesn’t snag stuff. I love love love vintage rings, and there are so many gorgeous ones out there at a fraction of the cost of new rings. This site is super fun to browse:
https://eragem.com/vintage-engagement-rings
Panda Bear
Such a good point about snagging. I hate that.
Anon
My ring is small and flush with the setting. I love it.
Anon
I love mine, which is about .75 carats (antique). Anything bigger than that wouldn’t suit my lifestyle anyway, but I prefer antique for a lot of reasons and I think the size is very tasteful.
Anon
Echoing that it really depends on your finger size and shape of the stone. I’m 3.5 to 4 depending on the finger, and currently wearing an art deco ring that looks substantial and sparkly even though it only has two trillion stones that total 0.5 carat. A 1.0 carat round would have less coverage.
Anon
For me, because I have basically three different rings I wear as a wedding ring, flat and non snaggy wins the day every time. So I’d look at settings that hold the stone closer to your finger.
I’ve been married for 20 years now. I’m less interested in impressing people with my bling than I am in wearing something comfortable on my finger that I enjoy looking at every day.
KatieWolf
1.5 – 2.5 carats. I would love to have 2 carats.
KatieWolf
edit to add- I have a 1.25 carat round solitaire on a thin gold band, size 7 1/4 ring. I would want 2 carats for a solitaire. If it had side stones or a halo I think 2 might be too much. But I do think the perfect carat size depends on the ring style and your hand, as others have mentioned. My diamond is lab created – you could check into that if you want to explore other options. Bonus- they tend to be a little cheaper the larger you go!
Anonymous
Mine is I think 0.75 or 0.8? But I was *very* particular and picked the setting first and had to find a diamond to fit it. Mine is a new-but-vintage-style setting that needed a round diamond of a particular size to fit (and I wanted a Old European cut instead of modern brilliant.) I’ve got very small hands and anything bigger wouldn’t have looked right on my finger.
mclawyer
Congrats on your engagement! I also recently got engaged! My ring just under one-carat solitaire diamond. I have a small finger (size 4.5) so I thought any bigger wouldn’t look right. I do have some issues with it snagging but I think that is just because I am not used to wearing it yet.
Anonie
Congrats to you, as well!! I relate on the snagging. I am always checking my ring for little wisps of thread and fuzz ha.
Anon
Congrats! I think it REALLY depends on the size of the person and the size of your hands. I’m 5’10”, 7-ish ring size, and mine is a 3 carat oval solitaire. I looked at emeralds as well, and we would have gone smaller had it been an emerald. For contrast, a good friend who just got engaged is 5’3″ with size 4 fingers, and her ring is a little over a carat Emerald and almost looks the same size proportionally. Settings matter too – if I’d wanted more side stones or a halo or something like that, would have definitely gone smaller.
notinstafamous
Congrats on your engagement!
Anonie
How kind! Thank you :) Wedding planning during a pandemic has been “interesting,” to say the least.
Anonymous
Piggybacking of of some of yesterday’s comments. I’m a black associate lawyer (the only lawyer of colour in my firm of 200 lawyers), and I was so overwhelmed yesterday that (for the first time in my career) I had to respond to a partner’s email asking for work (that I hadn’t started) by apologizing and saying that I was too overwhelmed by all that’s been going on in the BLM movement and that I would get to it as soon as I could. He responded with “Pls and thx”. To all who were considering reaching out to employees of colour, I just wanted to give this anecdote of how NOT to respond. I really would have appreciated some support yesterday and did not get any, and it just made everything worse.
Anon
That guy is a jerk. I’m very sorry.
Panda Bear
That stinks and I hope you are getting the kindness and support you deserve from others in your life. Sorry that you had to experience that kind of response at work.
Monday
Classic. That reminds me of the “Anonymous Lawyer” blog.
I’m sorry you have such an insensitive, thoughtless partner.
Anonymous
OP Here – just wanted to provide a link to an article that does a very good job of explaining what professionals of colour are dealing with right now:
https://medium.com/@shenequagolding/maintaining-professionalism-in-the-age-of-black-death-is-a-lot-5eaec5e17585
pugsnbourbon
Thank you for sharing this – I’m going to post it to my social accounts.
That partner is an ass. Black women are doing, and have done, THE MOST and so much of it goes unseen and unrecognized.
Anonanonanon
I don’t like “pls and thx” as a response in ordinary circumstances, so that was extra awful. I’m so sorry.
anon
Totally off topic but why do people write like this? You’ve got a full keyboard, is it so hard to tap 6 additional letters?
Anon
I’m so sorry that happened. What a shit response by him.
One of my black colleagues sent out an article about “Your black colleagues are not okay” and someone white responded to the entire organization saying “But still you rise! Have you read that poem? I think it’s really inspiring when things are sad, everything always gets better soon.” Shortly thereafter: “I’ve been told this isn’t a helpful response and I apologize.”
Moonstone
My jaw dropped.
Anon
Wowwww
Never too many shoes...
Oof.
Anon
IDK I’m being honest — I would have responded the same as him. I know people here will yell at me, but work is work; you are paid to work esp in these client services businesses. Your political or emotional distractions aren’t a partner’s issue and not everyone should be expected at work to stop and want to talk FEELINGS especially when whatever they say will be faulted as not being enough. I mean talking with a black associate on Monday I didn’t make any great show of OMG how ARE you, it was such a rough weekend. It was a work call . . . about work.
Anonymous
Yikes. You’re part of the problem.
Monday
He didn’t need to “stop and want to talk FEELINGS.” He could have written, “I understand, thanks.” And I am not “yelling at you,” I am pointing out that this is a completely unfair characterization of OP’s complaint.
annoyed
Yeah it doesn’t have to get emotional – “I understand, thanks” takes the same amount of time to write and is so so much better
Anon
Yeah it doesn’t have to get emotional – “I understand, thanks” takes the same amount of time to write and is so so much better
Anon
Most men I know aren’t that great at responding to emotions. He may not have known how to respond.
Anon
Of course work is work but work is done by people who are people not robots. I would imagine you would have a little grace when working with someone who had been in a car accident or lived in an area hit by a hurricane, you should show that same level of compassion to Black colleagues right now. If you wouldn’t and you’re just a jerk all the time, well then there’s no hope for you. But if you otherwise would show compassion in extenuating circumstances, please look yourself in the mirror and ask why you are unwilling to do so in this one.
Anonymous
+1. And evaluate your attitude. Systemic racism and the latest string of black deaths is not a “distraction”.
Anonymous
Did you read the article?
Marie
You can still be a good lawyer and be a human. Lawyers are not robots who just churn out work, and this expectation is a serious problem. Lawyers are people who have feelings, who have families, who get ill or injured, and who rightfully have strong feelings of anger and sadness when they watch someone getting brutally murdered by the people who are supposed to keep us safe time and time again. Cutting one of your colleagues some slack during a time of national crisis is not asking a lot. It’s asking for basic human decency. This profession has to do better.
Anonymous
+1 Extremely well said.
Marie
I will also add that I have been cutting opposing counsel all sorts of slack during the course of this pandemic, similar to how I would in any situation where there is a family emergency or an illness that makes meeting a deadline impossible. Over the years, even my most contentious opposing counsel and I have been generous in moving deadlines for each other during a time of personal crisis. Once the dust is cleared, we go back into battle, but if someone needs to call a timeout because they need time off to care of themselves or a loved one, that is always understood. I will just say that if we would afford the opposition that professional courtesy, why can’t we do the same for our colleagues?
anon
I wonder if you’re the same heartless person who always posts with this syntax. You are going out of your way to be dismissive to OP, and you are making a straw man argument. She didn’t expect that partner to stop and talk FEELINGS. She didn’t expect him to go out of his way to address the issue or bring it up first. She just expected some understanding as to why she was where she was on her project.
Probably best that you didn’t try to show empathy or human decency to your colleague. You obviously do not know how to. PS – if you know people will “yell” at you (and I assume this is not the first time you’ve said that in a comment here or elsewhere) perhaps you should reevaluate your approach?
Anonymous
I mean maybe it is her, but whether it is or not you’re obviously the person who follows her in order to say mean things. And I guess you’re the person who just learned the phrase “straw man” and likes to go around squawking about it. People recognize you too, you know. I’m sorry you must be having a difficult time. How does it benefit you to do this & could you get the same benefit in a healthier way?
Anon
Following her around? You mean frequenting the same website?
anon
Hah, okay honey. Very cute.
Anonymous
No, I mean crouching in the bushes watching and waiting, then pouncing without provocation. Kat/moderation— would you consider banning this person for targeting users and bullying them until they go anonymous or leave the site?
Anonymous
@anon In all seriousness, if this person or even the mere suspicion that it is this person causes you to go into apoplectic rage … stop reading. Then you can quit having these tantrums. Obviously you can’t stop on your own & I think it would be doing you a personal favor if Kat banned you.
Anonymous
LOL this is hilarious. I used the term “straw man” the other day, which I guess irritated you very much (yay!). I am not the person who posted above. Nice try at amateur sleuthing, though! Two stars for effort.
Jules
Anon @12:13, you are fine, and the suggestion from Anonymous at 2:58 that you should be banned is absurd and uncalled for.
Anonanonanon
Would it have been OK if the associate said instead I’m distracted by the fact my mom died? Is that different?
Cat
Yeah the work needs to get done – BUT that response from partner was ridiculous. Pls and thx is bad under any circumstances.
Anon
So yes — to me a hurricane is different because it presumably affects ALL associates and partners in that area, and it’s non controversial. A personal family issue also different because it is THAT person’s family. This — unless you are this man’s actual family — is a social and politics issue. Views on social and political issues vary so there is no place for them at work. Nothing is gained by saying anything because if you do then you know it’ll be — you didn’t condemn things hard enough, you used the wrong words, you had the wrong look on your face. No one is going to say you didn’t condemn a hurricane in the right way. So I stick by my view — work is for work and I’m not making a production of social issues.
pugsnbourbon
Wow, Anon. You’re being incredibly dismissive of a black woman’s lived experiences. I really, really hope you take some time to learn and reflect.
Anon
Social and political issues don’t belong at work – but they are there. And they hurt people. So we need to care about them.
Look, you’re clearly not a leader. You may manage people, but you don’t know how to lead.
Anon
No I just don’t lead how YOU want.
anon
You don’t lead how anyone wants. You are the person everyone remembers as their worst manager when they think back on career lows.
pugsnbourbon
Also if you think natural disasters such as hurricanes and, y’know, this pandemic affect everyone the same way you’re being willfully ignorant.
Anon
I empathize with what people are going through, but I also don’t think it belongs at work.
I understand if people need time off or extra time to complete assignments, but I don’t think the workplace is somewhere you can expect someone to react how you want them to react to how you are feeling. At work I would only expect people to react somewhat appropriately if they were close colleagues that solicited your feelings, i.e. how are you doing with all this?
I think we would all like to have the expectations that people always know how to react in the correct way, but that’s not always the case. That doesn’t mean they don’t care because they don’t have the response we think they should have.
anon
“is a social and politics issue.”
My god you’re only making yourself look worse. Systemic racism affects all POC. This isn’t a politics issue– it’s an issue of human rights.
“Views on social and political issues vary so there is no place for them at work.”
Easy to say when social and political structures benefit you and harm others.
“Nothing is gained by saying anything….”
Nothing is gained from *your* perspective. You have got to consider that you are not the only person who matters. Basically you’re too chicken sh*t to say anything that might be perceived as controversial and aren’t willing to do anything that might even make someone who isn’t you feel slightly better.
Anonymous
I am asking this from a place of trying to listen and learn. But, what is so wrong with the response? What, to OP, would have been an appropriate response? I, as a white woman, would feel (and do feel) incredibly awkward reaching out specifically to ask how my colleagues of color are doing. It’s part of the reason I didn’t post a black square on Instagram yesterday – It feels performative and virtue signaling. This is likely where all of my biases come into play that I’m just not aware of. (I mean, I don’t like when someone doesn’t use the full words of “Please” and “Thank you” but obliviously that’s not the issue here).
So maybe this partner is a jerk. Maybe they also don’t know how to respond. I would like to not be the jerk partner, so I am genuinely seeking advice and am appreciative of any others are willing to give.
Anonymous
I should add that, of those in my practice group at my firm that I work with/have worked with, none of them are POC. So, it would have been me specifically reaching out, which is what makes it feel awkward to me. I recognize that the fact I don’t work with POC is also a problem, but trying to start small and correct what can be changed relatively quickly.
Anonymous
OP Here – honestly if he had simply said “No problem, get it to me when you can” I would have felt seen and supported. As others have pointed out above, I wasn’t looking for a conversation about “feelings” at all. All I was hoping for was a bit of leniency and understanding in the circumstances. It took A LOT of courage to even send that email to the partner in the first place. I challenge the poster above to actually read the article I posted. This is not simply a “distraction” for black professionals.
Eek
This sort of response is 100% not too much to ask. His response was dismissive and inappropriate for the circumstances. I’m appalled and also not surprised because . . . lawyers. I’m sorry this happened on top of everything else.
Anonymous
I’m anon at 12:24. Thank you for responding. I personally read a “understood” into the email the partner sent you. But that is me.
Anon
I don’t know how you read that into an email that had 2 shortened words and “and” but that’s just me.
Anon
I guess I would think that it was understood because he didn’t press the issue about getting it done faster and accepted her answer as to why it would take a longer time?
Anonon
The OP wasn’t even asking that anyone reach out to her though. She clearly stated how she was feeling AND that she will get her work done as soon as possible. Even a simple “I understand” or “Take care of yourself” or anything else is except what he wrote would be better. How hard is a simple acknowledgment?
Anonymous
Im OP – this is SPOT ON.
Marie
+1
Anon
Yes, this. How hard is it to say “Please take care of yourself and let me know if I can help you?”
Anonymous
Wow. I am sorry for the partner’s response and just everything. My admin is a lovely young woman of color and we start and end each day with a conversation of how she is doing and if there is anything she needs from me. I don’t know if it helps. I honestly don’t know how to help. I really wish I knew how best to support her.
Anon
Are you friends outside of work? Because if not I think that’s a bit much to expect for a boss.
Anonymous
We are not but we have gotten close and she has come to be with office race issues in the past — so I want to keep the dialog open, especially now. I have also gotten to know her father well, who is in LE.
Anonymous
We also work very long days in a very stressful assignment — and the protests are literally right outside our doors (beyond the fence).
Marie
It costs very little to show kindness to others. If this admin is uncomfortable with these interactions, that’s another story. If not, then no, it is not much to expect that someone you probably spend more time with on a daily basis than your own family shows you decency and kindness during a difficult time.
Anon
I’m really sorry that happened. What a jerk.
Anon
That partner should have done better. Period. If I were your work colleague and knew about this, I would try to find out if I could take that assignment off your plate or provide other coverage to you. Are you close to any other associates who may be able to help?
I posted this yesterday out of concern about how support a colleague in the legal profession. I repost it in the hope of opening a dialogue about how we can be supportive and helpful to people struggling to do a job that on its best days is taxing and difficult, and is extremely challenging during times of anger, despair, and grief.
I have been struggling with what to say to a co-worker who is a POC, and who I also consider to be my closest office friend. Last week, we shared texted messages about the inhumanity of what had just occurred. I broke the ice first, but then sat back for her to take the lead, and it seemed to be a good conversation, which she (unnecessarily) thanked me for. Yesterday, I texted her to see how she was doing after the weekend, but have not heard anything back. I understand that she may be just busy, overwhelmed, or not want to talk (at all or to me), and I absolutely respect that. I am struggling to strike the right balance of reaching out and being supportive, but also not trying to force anything or make her uncomfortable. It seems tone deaf to exchange the usual gripes about work that we customarily text about every day, but I don’t want to make her feel isolated by not reaching out either since we usually talk daily. I may be overthinking this, but I care about her a lot and do not want to do the wrong thing. There are a lot of articles about allies getting this wrong and making me worry that nothing I do will be helpful.
Anonymous
OP Here – thanks for this, it makes me wish you were my colleague! Unfortunately it’s very isolating to be the only associate (or lawyer period) of colour at my firm because I don’t feel that if I had reached out to someone else for them to take something off my plate, they would have understood the need for it. There was no sign whatsoever that people at my firm were even aware of Black Tuesday or of what has been going on globally with respect to the BLM movement and the latest string of black deaths at the hands of the police, yet these things felt unavoidable and overwhelming to me. There was a disconnect, which led to feelings of isolation. I am not saying that I wish my white colleagues would take the initiative to reach out to me, the issue for me is that when I did reach out and raise the issue, I was not met with any sense of understanding (or attempt at understanding) or awareness. I think if you usually talk to your POC co-worker daily, that it would seem strange to her if that didn’t continue. Why not simply reach out and ask her what she would like? Ask her how you can support her, or simply let her know that you have been struggling to find the right words but want her to know that you’re there for her if she needs you. I don’t think it’s about doing it “wrong” or “right” – what makes an impact (on me at least) is knowing that people actually care and are in fact struggling with how to help because they genuinely want to.
Anon
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to me. I have been seeing a lot of articles about how asking how someone is holding up is one of the worst things we can do (had already done that, felt terrible if that somehow was unhelpful), but then others saying that not reaching out shows you don’t care and your silence is complicity. Others saying engaging in a dialogue is important and speaking out is needed but then still others saying, listening and remaining silent about things you can’t understand is what is right. Needless to say, there are a lot of nuances here and I’m hoping my good intentions are leading me in the right direction, but I just want to be careful I don’t inadvertently make a someone’s day more difficult than it already is.
blueberries
The partner who answered “pls and thx” is horrible. I’m sorry you experienced that.
anon
Question for those of you in senior level roles….how many emails do you ignore/not respond to? What is your personal email policy? I work in a very large company and there is JUST.TOO.MUCH.EMAIL. There are lots of helpful people that send things that are not very relevant or important. How do you prioritize or manage?
Anon
I have lots of rules set up that send some things straight to trash. I try to make them set up where any exception, like my name is in the “To” line (when it normally isn’t) or it has a RE or FWD in the subject line it can go through just in case. I unsubscribe unsubscribe unsubscribe where I can, even if it means an uncomfortable actual email I need to send to someone asking them to remove me. I constantly remind myself that I am being paid to come up with important thought piece work, not to get brownie points for clearing my inbox – and I don’t owe anything to the items that just try to chip away at that with busy emails. Harsh, but it has really gotten out of hand.
Anon
Some of my colleagues got in trouble for setting up e-mail filters. Apparently IT tattles on people who consistently trash unopened e-mails from directors and VPs, even if what they send is error-riddled newsletters that consist of their incoherent ramblings. Super fun.
CHL
The struggle is real! I have a very small set of email senders or types where there is risk to the company or my reputation if it doesn’t get a response immediately. Those get marked a different color so I notice them. There are some that I just sort ignore on a day to day basis and then on a weekly basis I sort by sender and can generally just delete. I err on the side that if it is important and doesn’t fall in one of my high risk senders, if it falls through the cracks, someone will call or I can live with it. I have an @ToRead folder where I stick stuff that I am actually interested in reading but don’t want in my inbox so I move stuff there and read it usually on Fridays or during boring conference calls…I’m also of the mindset that I don’t have to reply to emails that don’t ask for a response (including “Thanks!” Maybe people think I’m a beeatch but I’m ok with it.)
Hollis
Anyone here have any suggestions on consumables that can be delivered to a friend in Dallas? I was thinking a restaurant meal for her family or flowers or baked goods. Would prefer to order from a local company that delivers to Dallas proper. Please post if you have any suggestions.
Anon
TIFF’S TREATS!!! They deliver freshly baked cookies to you warm from the oven. They’ll even deliver milk to go with them :)
Mal
Haha you beat me to it! :)
Mal
Hello! Tiff’s Treats is super popular – they make fresh-baked cookies and other treats delivered warm. They started in Austin and now have multiple locations:
https://www.cookiedelivery.com/
anon
Scardello (great cheese and wine) – https://scardellocheese.com/
DeLeon Provisions (charcuterie tray) – https://deleonprovisions.com/grazing-boards/
Curious
Ugh I just hit Report Comment instead of Collapse replies. Sorry.
Hollis
Does anyone here have any suggestions on consumables that can be delivered to a friend in Dallas? I was thinking a restaurant meal for her family or flowers or baked goods. Would prefer to order from a local company that delivers to Dallas proper. Please post if you have any suggestions.
Sunshine
I would call Central Market. It’s a grocery store, but upscale with lots of fun treats and a great prepared food section. It’s by far my favorite grocery store around. I’ve received several whole fruit baskets from them and they’ve been great! I’ve also attended parties where they provided the finger foods and those too were delicious. They deliver.
Anonymous
I miss Central Market so much! Loved going there. They also have a great floral section, so could probably do flowers with your delivery as well.
Anon
Hi all, if anyone is up for some vicarious shopping, I’m hoping to find a couple of dresses for WFH. I am plus size 1x and tall, and prefer a knee length or longer hemline.
I prefer natural fibers a loose-ish fit (though maybe not tent like). Reasonably priced is also very good!! Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
JTM
My first thought was the Geneva dress from Universal Standard. Since you said you’re a 1X I’d guess you’d need a S (Universal Standard has different sizing as they range from 00 – 40) but you could go up to an M if you want it really loose – https://www.universalstandard.com/products/geneva-v-neck-dress-navy
There’s also a crew neck style if that’s more of your thing.
Anon
Thank you! I think maybe that hemline is too weird for me. But I appreciate you responding!
pugsnbourbon
I saw these sleeveless reversible dresses at Land’s End. The fabric is rayon-poly, tho. https://www.landsend.com/products/womens-plus-size-sleeveless-reversible-knee-length-tank-dress/id_345402?attributes=38778,43307,43324,44256,44966
This A-line dress is 95% cotton: https://www.landsend.com/products/womens-plus-size-sleeveless-knit-print-aline-dress/id_335937?attributes=9053,43307,43324,44256,44966
And this shirtdress is 50% linen, but sizes seem limited: https://www.landsend.com/products/womens-plus-size-sleeveless-print-linen-blend-shirt-dress/id_340186?attributes=17739,43307,43324,44256,44966