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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
I love me a good shrunken blazer, and this fun peplum trimmed blazer looks lovely. It's a gabardine wool, so it won't be as stretchy as some of the shrunken knit blazers, but it'll also maintain its shape a lot better. The tonal shimmer trim looks almost like the leather trim on our far more expensive Suit of the Week — but for way less money. The blazer was $228, then marked to $89, but with the extra 40% off Labor Day Sale going on at Last Call, it comes down to a jaw dropping $53.40. Hooray! Laundry by Shelli Segal Peplum Trimmed Jacket, Black
Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
(L-2)
Psst: Check out more great deals at the Corporette Bargains page!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
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- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
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- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
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- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Sydney Bristow
I like this one better than yesterday’s suit but I still haven’t gone for the peplum trend. I love the look of jackets and own a couple that I just can’t seem to wear. I normally wear pencil skirts and cardigans and would like to step that up sometimes to jackets. Any advice on making the transition and getting past my mental block?
Ellen
I like this but the manageing partner does not reimburse unless he like’s it also. Right now, I am very busy with Sunday’s outeing on the manageing partner’s boat and Sam’s inviteing HIMSELF to the party thru the manageing partner. Evidently, I am not takeing him as my date, but the manageing partner has asked him to come as part of direct cleint development. FOOEY!
I was suposed to get credit for him as a potential new cleint, but now the manageing partner is claiming that since Sam called HIM, I should not be considered the development contact for Sam or his firm if they decide to throw us busness. DOUBEL FOOEY!
Actualy, I still dont understand why Sam called the manageing partner directly with OUT telling me first. I wonder if he think’s I am not professioneal enough to present to his firm first so that he can then bring me in AFTER the manageing partner does his schpiel to them, or if he think’s that he was goeing to suprise me by telling me that he is already signed on b/c of me being at the firm, but without consulteing me? I do NOT know what is worse. Tripel FOOEY!
It is goieng to be very odd with him comeing directly, b/c I am NOT going to drive out to the hamton’s with him. I am goeing to have ROBERTA take me b/c she has an SUV with leather seat’s and the radio does NOT have bouggers all over it. FOOEY! I will try to remain professional but am realy steamed at Sam. I wanted to count his firm as MY CLEINT, and now the manageing partner has HORNED in and claimed them for himself, even tho we do NOT even have any work from them yet. I do NOT know where to look when peeople here ask about that firm. Madeline is snickering already. FOOEY on her and her tuchus!
Sally
Girl, there aren’t words for how much I love your posts.
Veronique
Why do you think you don’t wear them? Is it because you don’t like the fit on you, feel that they’re too structured, don’t like the cut/color/whatever of the ones that you own, etc?
Sydney Bristow
I’m not totally sure what the reason is. Sometimes I can’t figure out how to wear it without looking like I’m missing half of my suit (even though they aren’t actually suit jackets) and sometimes I am worried that they aren’t as adaptable as my cardigans where I can just push the sleeves up if I get warm. I always like to have a top layer on and rarely wear a top without something over it. Maybe I’ll try bringing a cardigan with me to switch into if I get too warm.
Anon
I used to never wear jackets because I found them uncomfortably constricting on my broad shoulders. Then I discovered ponte, sweater, and other knit jackets, and now I wear them all the time.
Susie
Any specific brands you like?
Anon
I have 4 ponte blazers from Talbots that I like. I also have two tweedy-knit, zip front jackets from J Crew that I wear all the time. Neither store appears to have the ones I like online right now, although Talbots is showing a striped ponte jacket and one with a “ruffle peplum.” The sweater jackets are random brands from Nordstrom.
Calibrachoa
Slack off on laundry until you have no choice? :P that is how someone I used to know started wearing suits to work on a regular basis…. and then kept it ip when they realized they actually enjoyed it.
I am in the same boat myself, and I know big part of it for me is the worry that “something” will happen – that i will tear it, rip it, spills something uncleanable on it, etc, and since good jackets and blazers are dear (*grumble* especially plus size unless you want to look like an extra from Dynasty *grumble* ) as well as a worry that people will think I’m being too formal- like, this office is so business casual my boss’s boss’s boss’s boss only wears ties when we get customer visits. I think figuting out why you feel so odd about it might help?
ss
Perhaps try a ‘Chanel’ style jacket (no collar, 4 pockets, boucle, tweed or some other textured fabric) to make the transition ? A cream/ ivory one would go with everything including jeans.
Susie
I felt the same way, but I started wearing them with jeans on casual Fridays and felt very put together. After doing that a few times I got used to it and started wearing them with other things too.
Sydney Bristow
We don’t have casual Fridays but I will try wearing them with jeans on the weekends once the heat/humidity cools down. Thanks for the idea!
Thanks for the other suggestions everyone! I’ll try them out and try to figure out what my hang up actually is.
meara
I have some jackets that I feel weird whenever I try to wear them with a top and pants or skirt–but they look great with a dress. I think it’s just the way they fit/are cut.
marketingchic
Cute, but unfortunately not wool. The Laundry brand doesn’t seem to be the same quality as it once was.
Pear
I think that this jacket might be too shrunken for me. My natural waist is up by my armpits and the way this is styled makes it look like the top half *really* doesn’t match the bottom half. I do not think it would look half as good on me. I think I’d need the narrowest point of the jacket to be at least down to my belly button and something much sleeker on the bottom (maybe The Skirt in a dark color) to pull this off.
Fireworks
I’m in management in a corporate level office (translate: strong HR Dept.) in which almost all of the lawyers are men and all of the secretaries are women. The secretaries are mostly larger ladies with large female parts in front. They mostly all wear low cut shirts everyday that reveal 2-3 inches of cl#%vage. This seems to be a long entrenched accepted dress style in our office. My question is, can anyone think of a way to tactfully change this? I can see a revolt from these ladies if we mess with their dress. And should we try to change it?
Cornellian
Well, what’s your reason for wanting to change it? Are you worried about clients’ responses? Coworkers’?
Lia
This sounds like a terrible battle to undertake unless you have a very strong reason why it is causing problems.
Anonymous
Why would you want to do this? And are most of your lawyers white and secretaries black? Because wading into issues of race, class, gender, and culture over a few inches of boob seems about as wise as invading Canada because of Justin Beiber.
Blonde Lawyer
While I don’t think it is worth the fight, how is telling someone to dress to the dress code “wading into issues of race, class, gender and culture?”
Veronique
There are class issues because the secretaries would probably have to buy new clothes to meet the new standard. This would be a much greater hardship on a secretary’s salary than on a lawyer’s salary. There could be gender/harassment issues regarding the way that the (male) lawyers approached the issue of excessive cleavage to the (female) staff.
Pregnancy Dressing Help
“larger ladies with larger female parts”
This sounds like your problem, not theirs. I would pay less attention to what other people are doing and focus on your own work.
Anon
Yup, this.
And I write this as someone who dresses pretty conservatively (higher necklines, no cleavage). But what other women wear in the office? Not my business/problem (unless it is my direct report and something clearly not acceptable for a business casual workplace, ie daisy dukes, sweatpants or a midriff bearing top).
Diana Barry
+1.
zora
+2
Fireworks
Well, I though professional dress, according to this website, involved not showing cl%#vage at work? To try to create a more professional work environment? Because we have clients coming in daily? Because we are a law office? Just thoughts.
Anonymous
Secretaries aren’t members of a profession. Clients don’t care what they wear. Unless you’re hearing a lot of complaints about this, run and hide from this battle.
Baconpancakes
Wow, you try telling some secretaries they aren’t “members of a profession.”
I understand why the OP is worried. Secretaries are often the face clients see and interact with when they first come into an office, and like it or not, people judge an office based on ALL of the workers in it, not just the “important” ones.
But based on the OP’s comments that it’s a firmly entrenched practice, I would not take on this battle -particularly with larger women with larger chests. A shirt style that wouldn’t show cleavage on a smaller busted woman quickly shows cleavage as both the shirt size and the chest gets bigger. If it’s an issue of that I’d leave it alone. If these are shirts that would look more at home in a club and are clearly designed to maximize cleavage, I would start by reviewing company policy on dress code, and talk to your colleagues about whether they’ve noticed, whether they have a problem, and if they’ve tried to change the situation in the past. If it’s really that bad of a situation, they’ve noticed. If they haven’t noticed, you are probably blowing it out of proportion. Then, I would talk to HR. That’s why companies have strong HR departments – to deal with this kind of thing.
Anonymous
Secretaries aren’t members of a profession. That designation actually means something.
emeralds
My god. The condescension here is really incredible.
Avodah
Ouch! I was an EA for a while, until I chose something else. My fellow EA’s were absolutely members of a profession. They were career EA’s who worked very hard at their jobs. They all had college degrees (one from an Ivy League) and dressed very professionally. Most of them made between $55-$100k/year.
Anonymous
Professions include doctors, lawyers, and accountants. They have entrance requirements, codes of conduct, and continuing education requirements. Thus, secretaries can be professional, but they are not members of a profession. Just like Sheryl Sandberg and The President. P
Anon
Lawyer here. I think the distinction between someone who has a “profession”/is a member of a “profession” and someone who works/has a “job” is antiquated and classist.
And if you told my assistant that s/he was not a member of a profession, s/he would give you the biggest stink eye you’d ever seen.
Mpls
Oh, come on. You are clinging to an outdated definition. A profession is a paid occupation that requires training. Also known as a job, maybe even a career. The 3 you mentioned happened to be LICENSED professions, where yes, you do need independent licensed. But so do teachers, nurses, and any other number of things – including long haul truckers. So, your narrow definition is really getting you in trouble.
Silvercurls
I think Anonymous @ 10:25 am means that secretaries (admin assistants, exec assistants) aren’t members of a modern-day guild as so clearly defined by Anonymous at 11:59 am (“entrance requirements, codes of conduct, and continuing education requirements”). The Ouch responses arise because there’s a thin-to-invisible line between being defined as Not belonging to a community linked by common livelihood and workplace interest and and being defined as Not Being Professional, aka Not being an employee who approaches work with a useful blend of experience, creativity, problem-solving, responsibility, pride, good work ethic, and ambition. Generations of entertainers have evoked the stereotpyically featherbrained secretary who chews gum, flashes cleavage, files her nails, doesn’t care about contributing to the smooth functioning of an organization, and enters the office each day wanting only to capture a husband who can support her!
I’ve been an admin, exec, and editorial assistant in the past and will probably do so again in future. I’m also highly educated–liberal arts BA plus a professional master’s degree. When I switched into office support–after choosing to leave the field in which I earned my graduate degree–I was absolutely humbled by the skills, poise, and finesse of my colleagues, many of whom had far fewer years of formal education. There’s nothing wrong with learning about Kabuki theater or Russian history–knowledge of either deepens our awareness of the human condition and/or makes us better citizens of our own time and place–but there’s also NO substitute for being able to get a dozen packages onto the FedEx truck on schedule and without screwing up the almost-but-not-entirely-identical documents for each recipient to sign and return (in the enclosed pre-addressed envelope with prepaid postage)!
Okay, the novel (War and Peace? Anna Karenina?) is over now.
Avodah
Um, some secretaries do, in fact, need to hold certain licenses (Series 7, for example). Anyway, I’m done arguing about this. * I* think a professional is someone who is is dedicated to their work, handles conflict with decorum, treats colleagues with respect and continually strives to improve at their job.
Marilla
Silvercurls, you are fabulous. Thank you for writing that out. As the daughter of an admin assistant (and practically the adopted daughter of the admins in our office), I thoroughly agree.
Silvercurls
Avodah, I stand (sit, actually) corrected re AAs holding licenses. I also appreciated your definition of professional. Finally, you’ve inspired me to look up Series 7.
Marilla, Thanks for the compliment.
I wish both of you (and all other readers of this site ;-) ) a good weekend!
Deep End
I get what you are saying. My assistant is very young and regularly dresses with lots of cleavage. This morning she was in my office and one b**b was just about completely popping out of her shirt. At times I find it really distracting when I’m talking to her and it makes me look down at the desk or away because I’m so uncomfortable by the way she dresses. But – She does her job and she does her job well. Also, she is assistant to two of the top named partners so if any attorney should address her dress code it should be them and not me.
i do think that staff dress code is under the purview of HR. However, you probably need the support of at least the top partners in order to tackle this topic successfully. As others have said, unless they are regularly having client contact or there is some other relevant reason, you may find the attorneys are not willing to tackle this issue for fear of pis*ing off the assistants and rocking the boat/disrupting work.
Hel-lo
+1.
It’s like when people write in to Miss Manners and ask if someone else is being rude. Her answer is yes, but that the writer is also being rude to point out someone else’s rudeness. You can only control yourself.
OP said she was in “management.” Does that mean you are in charge of enforcing the dress code? If not, I doubt this is a hill you want to die on, so to speak.
Anonymous
Right. Women should try to not show cleavage at work according to this site. But this site is aimed at the individuals. What you are doing is wanting to talk to other people about their dress, and make them dress up to your standards. Is it weird that they all seem to show cleavage? Maybe. But if they are not your direct reports this is just not your battle. I’d say them same thing if all the male attorneys were wearing shorts. Don’t make this a big womens issue. They are choosing to dress how they want to.
Anonymous
What does the fact that they’re larger ladies have to do with it? If they were smaller ladies with large female parts would that be more acceptable to you?
Fireworks
Well smaller women with smaller body parts probably wouldn’t have significant cl%€vage in my mind. These are all very big b*^bs. No one has cared in the past because the rest of management male? Trying to create a more professional environment for all women in the office?
Anonymous
That’s not the point of the comment, there are plenty of small women that have been generously endowed.
The question was whether you would be less offended if they were smaller women with large chests. Are you offended by the fact that they are LARGE women showing too much cleavage, or just women showing too much cleavage? The point is that women being larger is not really relevant.
Batgirl
(Kat–I tried to hit “reply” and hit “report” by accident–sorry!)
I thought that the reason she mentioned it was because it is probably harder for larger women with larger che$ts to find clothing that fits well and doesn’t show cleav@ge (trying to avoid moderation), whereas it might be more of a decision to dress s3xy for a smaller woman with a big che$t.
Maybe that’s not what she meant, but I thought it was an acknowledgment that it could be harder for larger women to find clothing that accommodates their larger brea$ts.
Anonymous
Fireworks this seems like a totally inappropriate preoccupation to me. NYB. Leave it to HR.
Lia
+1
Houston Attny
I understand what you’re saying but am curious – is the cleavage intentional? Not trying to start a debate about intentional cleavage = bad, unintentional = no problem. But I notice this in our office with a couple of ladies who have purchased tops that are revealing though I am sure that’s not the intention (think about 4 inches of cleavage that is obvious when the secretary is seated). I also understand coming to an office where you feel slightly stunned by what you see in dress so I wonder if a general gentle reminder of dress code is in order. In your management role, I think you want to target the whole group, no matter the size, but understand that it may go unheeded, particularly if it’s unintentional.
emeralds
There is not a way to tactfully touch this with a ten-foot pole, to say nothing of changing it.
zora
This covers it. ;)
Senior Attorney
I agree that this is almost certainly not something that you would be wise to wade into. That said, I can think of a couple of things you might try:
1. As Houston Attny suggess, if there is a dress code in place and the secretaries are violating it, a reminder to all might be in order. If you want to be really aggressive and you have the power to do so, you could start actually enforcing the dress code up to and including sending people home if they don’t comply. (But see “not something that you would be wise to wade into,” above.)
2. You can certainly have a talk with your own secretary about your preferences re: her dress. I think you are entitled to say “on my team, we don’t show 4 inches of cleavage and I expect you to be decently covered in the office.” Again, not likely to go over very well but at least that is presumably something you can control. Maybe.
But honestly, if they are doing their jobs I’d just leave well enough alone.
Avodah
I disagree. I would really go through HR on this one.
Senior Attorney
You know what? On further reflection I agree with you, disagreeing with me.
There is vanishing little upside to getting involved in this at all.
Avodah
LOL! Fair enough. This is my barometer for complaining about work, “Has it negatively affected my ability to successfully complete work?”
LizNYC
Wow.
I’m a large lady with large cleavage (think F-G). And if you didn’t want me to show ANY cleavage, that would require wearing turtlenecks everyday. And then I’m sure you’d complain that I was still being inappropriate because then you’d just see giant uniboob in tight cotton.
I think unless the secretaries are wearing inappropriate workwear, like “clubbing” tops or very low-cut V-neck t-shirts, you should instead focus on the quality of their work.
R
Small-ish lady with large cleavage (normally E, now about a G). Agreed – I’ve actually gotten MORE comments in turtlenecks than I have in regular necklines. I think some people are just uncomfortable with large b**bs in the first place, regardless of how they’re covered.
Lyra Silvertongue
Average size lady with large cleavage (32FF)- Agreed, turtlenecks or very nigh crew necks make me seem like I’m hiding two watermelons under there, and generally garner more comments than a modest v-neck/scoop/etc.
Sally
You have learned a valuable lesson by posting this. You and I are in the minority on the showing skin front. I too find it unprofessional and come from a time when it was unacceptable. A lot of the commenters here think we are from another planet, but would never take a man who wore a shirt like this seriously.
A very sad double standard.
NKV9
Change is uncomfortable. If Fireworks wants to take on that discomfort, and dress code matters are within her job duties, I say go for it. This site talks a lot about dressing “for your office”, but not so much about the genesis of office culture and ways to change it. Professional expectations are imposed by management, but actually created and reinforced by the day-to-day actions of individual employees. Business casual is not the same from one office to the next. I’m sure low-cut tops didn’t become acceptable overnight in the Fireworks office, and there’s no reason a new (perhaps more professional) office norm can’t take hold. But…yeah…people are going to be mad/hurt/embarrassed/etc.
edj3
I am in HR (organizational development) and the first question I’d ask you if you came to me for change management around something like this is pretty simple: what business problem are you trying to solve?
If you can answer that, with metrics that matter to the business, then we can discuss your situation.
Lyssa
This is really cute, but I’m not sure if the peplum styling here would flatter me.
Threadjack: Hubby and I are going on a 2-day jaunt to New York next week. I got some great tips a while back about what to do while there (and many thanks for that!), so this one’s all about what to wear. We’ll be doing the normal touresty stuff, with a lot of walking around (Empire State Building, Central Park, Statue of Liberty, shops, subways, etc.), and it will be mid-week, high temps in the upper 70s.
I’ve been planning to wear my favorite walking sandals. Would I be more comfortable and appropriately dressed for the environment in: 1) a sundress or casual skirt/tank top with a cardi; 2) dark jeans and a nice-ish top, with a sweater or blazer; or 3) slacks and top with cardi/blazer? Or something else entirely?
I’m very cold-natured, but we’ll be walking outside a lot, so I assume that will be OK. The sandals are a little bit casual to wear with a dress, but I think they’ll be fine. TIA!
Cornellian
the subway will probably still be blazing and humid, so I would go with something sleeveless with an extra layer. I would also be careful with sandals as the streets can be pretty grimy. I’d probably stick to something close toed if you want to walk around all day and are squeamish about having black feet.
JB
Closed toe shoes are highly recommended. Especially as a tourist when you will be walking all over the city, sandals are a guarantee for black feet. The trash juice, dog usage and shop owners washing down the sidewalks are a gross combination.
Pear
One thing to think about with the sandals is that there can be all sorts of wet stuff on the sidewalks / subway stairs / subway, especially in the morning when stores spray down the doorway and sidewalk in front of them. I wore open toe slingback flats once and regretted it.
Otherwise, I’d just go for what you’re most comfortable in. It takes a lot to stick out.
Veronique
Are you going to be taking to subway? New York subways get incredibly hot, humid and gross when the temperature is high. If so, I would definitely recommend the sundress option for daytime. I definitely see people in NYC wearing sundresses (obviously depending on the neighborhood and time of day), so you won’t stand out. Take one pair of jeans and 2 nice tops for evenings.
Nyer
2 and 3 sound way too dressy unless it’s just for dinner. For just walking around 1 sounds much more comfortable. Also, FYI, it has cooled down outside, but the subways haven’t yet and they are still gross and humid. And stores still have the AC blasting (I assume to make you buy winter coats at this point?) So I’d recommend a denim jacket or cardigan over a t/tank to easily remove.
As for shoes, well I just passed a family on my way in who all had matching Nikes in different dayglo colors…
Anonymous
I’d go with a sundress, or jeans if you’re really worried about being cold. No blazer or slacks, you’re going on vacation not teaching Sunday school.
AIMS
70s in NYC can be cool or worse than 90 in a dry climate. Check the humidity before you leave. You will be fine in just about anything you wear, but my go to for walking around is usually a sundress, with a cardigan/shirt/big scarf for if I get chilly. And subway platforms will always be too hot and subways themselves will be very cold & air conditioned. You’re probably not going to be on either long enough to worry about it too much. Have fun!
Senior Attorney
The first time I went to NYC for a weekend in the late summer I only took a couple of outfits and wished I’d taken more clothing because you sweat. right. through. your. clothes. in the subway. I wanted to change my clothes from the skin out every time I got back to the hotel room because, as everyone has said, it’s hot and humid down there.
Alanna of Trebond
It has been very cold in NYC this summer (even now). If you really feel cold, I would bring light dresses but bring shawls and sweaters so you can layer if necessary.
NOLA
Today is the 8th anniversary of the Big Horrible Thing that hit New Orleans. We are back and better than we were in August 2005 but it’s still something I can’t dwell on. On the 5th anniversary, I had visitors from NYC who wanted to know everything and I ended up an emotional mess. So just wanted to acknowledge. It’s amazing how many people I’m friends with now here who weren’t here then and have no idea what it was like.
a.k.
Thinking of you, NOLA. You, and your city, are resilient and amazing.
Betty
+1
EC MD
Not that this in anyway compares to you, but I was a surgical intern and the week following that event was my first week of vacation. I sat in my parent’s house in Nashville and watched it all unfold over the course of the week. I recently listened to a clip from the show This American Life from the week after the event. I had to pull off the road because I was a mess. This north westerner hasn’t forgotten.
NOLA
Thanks EC MD. At the time, NPR’s were the only reasonable reports coming out of here and they were grim. I started working at a college in PA and I had an hour commute. I would listen to NPR both ways just to try and get some unhyped news.
TBK
I drove down to DC from my parents’ house in Boston, to start my first lawyer job at my biglaw firm, just two days later. I remember driving down the interstate with tears streaming down my face while I listened to the reports.
Dulcinea
I was driving too, when I heard the news. I was going back to college from my summer internship. I had spent my honeymoon and New Years Eve the year before in New Orleans and I was so sad for everyone living there.
FWIW, I volunteered at the fundraiser my classmates held (don’t recall which organization we gave to) and sold jello shots. I donated all my tips in addition to the proceeds from the sales. TONS of people were very generous for being broke college students.
Deep End
I spent time working with prisons all around NO after the storm trying to identify displaced prisoners and their records. Most of the prisoners had no idea what happened to their families in the storm even though it was 6 months later. It was such a mess and so heartbreaking. NO will always be home even though my parents moved away shortly after the storm. I’m thinking of you and everyone there today, NOlA.
NOLA
Yeah, a friend and I were talking last night about how the “not knowing” was the worst. We didn’t know where our friends and colleagues were. We didn’t know the conditions of our homes. People kept driving by my house and saying “It looks fine!” and it wasn’t. What they couldn’t see was how much the roof damage had done inside. I had talked to my friend (from church) after the storm hit. She and her husband had stayed. He is a well-known law professor and has written about their experiences. Of course, we talked before the levees broke and it became unsafe to be here. When she called me on Labor Day to say that they were safely in DC, I almost fell to the floor with relief.
Silvercurls
Another internet hug, along with good wishes for all people displaced by Katrina, whether they rebuilt their lives in new cities or reassembled their previous physical and social homes in New Orleans.
Senior Attorney
Internet hugs seem so inadequate, NOLA, but please know that this internet stranger is thinking of you and your beautiful city today and sending my love.
In the Pink
This +1 from a Gulf Coast neighbor to the west. Hang on NOLA, hoping the next 2 months find us all calm with tropical sprinkles/showers only. Could use the rain here.
Torpical sprinkles – now I want a doughnut or cupcake with them and it’s nearing lunch time.
NOLA
I don’t know about you all but we have been having the most beautiful cooler drier weather. One of my girlfriends and I were contrasting that to the he!! we were in last year at this time with Isaac. We’ll take this any day!
In the Pink
Yes, NOLA, a day here and there that convinces us that fall IS possible…but back to the hot and humid – more skin wrinkling prevention is what I say.
Of course, I have to mow and do the rest of the lawn duty, with a bit of rain the old St. Aug. is thriving. But we really need the rain. Always careful what we wish for tho – was here for the floods of T.S. Allison way back when.
Wishing you quiet times and dry, breezes!!!
Hel-lo
+2
I watched Spike Lee’s documentary a few years ago before a visit to your city. I couldn’t watch the second part because I was too overcome.
springtime
I lived in TX at the time and volunteered at shelters for displaced people (a lot of people were taken in by TX). It was really sad. We were handing out medication for people who hadn’t taken their life-saving drugs in days or even weeks.
NOLA
One of my colleagues stayed with her elderly mother uptown then went to her home in Mid-City after they thought everything was clear. She and her husband ended up being in their apartment when the water came up. She couldn’t swim and they thought they were going to die. Her husband wouldn’t leave her because if she died, he wanted to die, too. They were rescued by their disreputable neighbors (who turned out to be a godsend) in a boat and were taken to the overpass. They were relocated to Dallas, where they were taken in by a former student. She went through the wringer but she has come back so strong. They bought a home and their daughter just graduated from college.
zora
Thinking of you and everyone in NO today, sweetie.
Blonde Lawyer
I was working in a juvenile jail at the time in the Northeast. My normally crass and immature 18-21 year old boys sat in silence watching the news for hours at a time, anytime they were allowed to watch it. People that are good in crisis situations tend to minimize (to themselves) the seriousness of tragedies as a coping mechanism but seeing my “residents” transform/step-up/emote in reaction to the tragedy really brought home the magnitude of it.
Coach Laura
Terrible event. Resilient city.
a lawyer
Mississippi remembers and mourns as well. It was a week I will never forget, and many have not yet recovered from the aftermath. Litigation over insurance companies’ refusal to pay still continues.
Veronique
Cute blazer, but I’m wondering if it’s worth it to get a peplum jacket at this (late?) stage of the trend. How long do y’all think that the peplum trend will continue? Would it be ok to wear a jacket like that once it’s no longer trendy or will it just look dated?
tesyaa
I had several peplum styles in the mid-late 80s and sometime around 2000 I threw them all out, not having worn them for almost a decade. Don’t know if that’s helpful for not.
(I don’t think they’d have worked this time around, anyway, when peplums came back, because of the football-size shoulder pads)
Carrie Preston
I like this one and I haven’t been a big fan of the trend, but I’m having a hard time seeing this one as “peplum” (it looks a tad flared but not rufflely). – I say go for it if you like it. Full disclosure, I just ordered it so maybe I’m justifying ;)
Hel-lo
I don’t get how this is peplum either. But I love it.
Susie
If it is a look that flatters you then I’d keep buying/wearing it.
Back to School
So there were a ton of back to school commercials this morning and now I’m depressed to not be going back to school. I’ve been out of law school and working full time for a year now and I thought I’d be “over” school by now, but I’m not. Full disclosure, I was in a doctorate program before law school so the academic lifestyle is fairly entrenched. How long did it take you all to adjust after college/law school/B-school? Or am I a nerd for missing it this much?
Anonymous
I still do “back to school!”. I buy a new outfit for the start of September, clean off my desk, buy some fun pens and a new notebook and try to recapture that fresh start feeling.
PolyD
This is awesome. Plus you don’t have to follow school rules for supplies or dress code (well, within reason, I realize some offices have dress codes, but I still think dressing like a grown-up is much more fun than it was to dress up as a child, but I was in high school in the 80s, so..).
cb
Buy yourself a new note book or pens to celebrate. I bought myself a shiny new pack of stabilos!
Pear
I was won over by the paycheck :)
Also: you still get to do seasonal clothes shopping / updating / turning over of the closet, so that rhythm won’t change. And: holidays sans finals.
My last school gig was getting a masters at night while working, so I didn’t even have the summer-off lifestyle bonus.
January
+1. It took about a year, in my experience. Maybe two.
Dulcinea
I agree, I still feel like Sept is the “beginning of the year” and when I want to start fresh; I am having some serious shopping cravings lately and I always do this time of year. I think it might be related to an ancient instinct to “bring in the harvest” and get everything squared away in preparation for winter.
Betty
I still miss school and the rhythm to the year (but not finals during the holidays). It reminds me of the line from You’ve Got Mail, “September makes me want to go out and buy schools supplies.” So, I do. And September will always be the start of the year to me. Plus, I’m married to an educator, so I live vicariously through him. Did you know that most teachers/administrators don’t sleep the night before the first day of school? When he told me, I thought it was really endearing.
Wannabe Runner
I never slept much that night either, as a student. Even when I was like 9, I’d wake up crazy and ready to go at like 3:00.
B
Oh my. I couldn’t sleep when I was an educator. The anxiety. It was just too much! (that and fear that I’d miss the alarm at 530AM after waking at 11AM all summer. :) )
Equity's Darling
The thing I miss most is getting all new notebooks and pens and highlighters, crispy spined new textbooks, starting new folders on my computer, for the various classes. The start of September was such a clean slate, my possibilities for the school year were endless!
I don’t miss the exams and such, because that type of stress really didn’t work well for me, but I do miss getting to see my friends all the time, the freedom to stay home sick if I felt like it, etc. I’m definitely happier working though, I did undergrad and law back to back, and by the end I just wanted out of school. I think I’ll do a masters of some type at some point, but for now I’m enjoying working.
Sydney Bristow
I miss fresh new school supplies too! I still buy new pens and notebooks regularly because of this. I also really miss free football tickets.
I focus on the things I love about fall in general that are unrelated to school. I plan a trip to see the leaves changing, buy my favorite candles, start drinking apple cider often, mapping out goals for the rest of the year since it seems like a good time to do so, and still obsessively follow my football team.
TCFKAG
If you’re a nerd for missing it, than call me ms. Nerd. For me its also that I connect the starting of school with the changing of seasons and the start of fall, which is my favorite time of year. And new adventures and fresh starts.
I find that I can somewhat re-create the feeling by just doing lots of fall-like things (picking apples, making pie, just enjoying the general fall-ness of living in New England at this time of year.) But yeah – eventually it sort of evens out and you get used to the new rhythm of life – but I still sort of miss it.
Coach Laura
We do the same thing, even in the PNW. Going to get fresh-pressed cider, making pies, getting out fall clothes.
I like the fresh start of a new school year and since I am a college instructor too (adjunct) I get to indulge my nerdy back-to-school routine with binders, pens and schedules.
Mpls
You know, I used to miss it. I loved school and new textbooks! But then I started working for a school district contractor (so we run on the school schedule) and after 12 days straight of working (which is a lot around here) and the last couple days being 10-11 hour days, I really really really really hate the first day of school.
TBK
I still miss school. I loved living in dorms (I lived in the law school dorm my 1L year) — lots of friends, no housework not even cooking and washing up. I loved having semesters that started slow and then had a flurry of activity at the end, followed by a week or two of vacation (during which I either traveled with friends or watched trash TV on my parents’ couch, completely without guilt because I believed I’d worked SO HARD during exams — hah! Work is so much more work than school). I also loved being able to do something completely different for about 12 weeks every summer, and still have a week or two off at the beginning and end of summer. Plus, in college, I did a million extracurriculars. It was like being a musician and an actor and a costume designer and a journalist and a nonprofit manager and an academic, all at the same time and not having to do any of them for more than 10 or 12 hours a week. My only regret about school is that I had no idea how good I had it at the time.
Sydney Bristow
Oh gosh I totally miss the freedom of studying at home with the built in ability for trash TV breaks. I really loved undergrad (and most of law school). The positive of my current job is that I never have to take work home with me so I still have trash TV time but its structured now, which takes away some of the fun. I also miss wearing jeans and sweatshirts every day so I change clothes almost immediately after walking in the door at night.
HSAL
I suspect you’re me. Love everything about this post.
Anonymous
I can’t relate to this at all. i was thrilled when graduate school was finally over and i am quite certain i never want to go back.
very anonymous
I am going to be very anonymous for this:
I need help/advice. My marriage is falling apart. I have an infant son, and I’ve really tried to blame things on baby hormones, stress, etc, for way, way too long. I’ve been coming up with excuses for going on three-four years now. But something happened this morning that crossed the line, and I do not want my son to live in fear of making his father angry the way I do.
I am working on the emotions of the situation – but what I really need is concrete advice on how to properly protect myself and my son.
I live in a town and have an established practice and am moderately successful. There would be a strong financial cost to moving to a new location.
In this town, my husband’s family is very wealthy and well-connected politically and otherwise. For anyone familiar with smaller Southern towns, they are the family that runs things. As he has now told me, “I am a [last name] and I ALWAYS get what I want.” My family is from 5+ hours away – we met in college and I moved here.
I am very concerned that if we were to leave, my husband would do/say anything it took to make sure that he “got” our son, even though he really doesn’t seem to care about him and often goes 4-5 days without seeing him awake because he leaves in the morning and stays out very late at night. I am 95% sure that my husband would say untrue things about my fitness as a mother.
I’m not perfect, either. The first two years we were married, I went through a pretty severe depression (in hindsight, having someone bully and criticize every. single. thing. I did and scream at me whenever I tried to defend myself may have had a little something to do with it…). I said and did some things that weren’t pretty. I basically coped and got over it by spending more time at work and less time with him. We’re five years in now. Since the birth of our son, his behavior has gotten out of control.
What immediate steps do I take to protect myself and my son? Emotionally? Financially?
Anon
You definitely need to consult with a family law attorney right away.
On a side note, I grew up with an angry, scary, sometimes violent Dad. If my Mom could have mustered the courage to do what you are doing, I think I would have lived a much different, happier life. Good luck to you and your son.
Anon in NYC
Also, try calling a domestic violence hotline. They may have more concrete tips for what you need to do/plan for in the short term (similar to the items that mascot outlined below). Try Safe Horizon, or the National Domestic Violence Hotline. Good luck.
Hel-lo
+1 for the Domestic Violence hotline. If you are afraid of your husband’s anger, then you are experiencing domestic violence, whether it is physical or not.
Most states have a statewide network/agency that can help you.
Also second the recommendation to talk to a lawyer ASAP. Preferably someone outside your small town.
mascot
From a computer that your husband doesn’t have access to, get some information about what you need in place to leave quickly. Copies of birth certificates, insurance policies, some cash, medications, etc. Get your own accounts and credit card that he doesn’t have access to. You may not need it, but if you do, you will have it. Also find out a place you can go and who you can count on, could be a hotel, could be a friends house, etc.
Ask around for the best family law attorney that you can find and meet with him/her immediately. Sounds like you are dealing with a bully and you need someone who can stand up to that. Sure he may be well connected, but in a small town, image matters a lot too. So he may be motivated to handle this in a civil fashion. (Maybe not, but here’s hoping). Good luck
Diana Barry
+1. Good luck!!!! We are here for you.
Houston Attny
Good advice. Also print out current account statements so if you need to, you can show balance as of such and such date.
Would it be helpful if she had audio recordings of his crazy rants? Or if she had called the police during his out-of-control outbursts? What do you ladies think? Will that help her with the custody issue?
Blair Waldorf
Audio recordings would be helpful. Calling the police would probably not be as helpful. It would be helpful only in the sense she could get a police report, but the police are unlikely to do anything to break up the situation (I am assuming her husband would not engage in abusive behavior in front of the police), and I have had many clients who have physical injuries and the police still do not arrest the abuser. The police report will only say something about how they were called because of a domestic disturbance, and they don’t usually write about who is at fault during the incident. Involving the police might also invite more backlash.
Things that would be helpful: audio recordings of verbal abuse, a diary documenting abuse close to the time of the abuse, pictures of broken locks, pictures of any broken items when he throws things, even pictures of the disarray that is left behind if he has thrown things – these would all be helpful. They might not all be admissible in court, but they will certainly help for settlement purposes. Also, going to a domestic violence court and getting a temporary order of protection (or a longer order of protection) is good documentation of abuse. The downside is that her husband will be notified of this, which could lead to more backlash. However, in terms of documenting abuse, this would be a very clear mark against him in a custody battle. Maybe this is something OP could do very close to the time she plans on leaving the house.
P Funk
I agree with the usefulness audio recordings, but would urge the OP to check into her state’s laws regarding the recording of conversations. They vary from state to state, with some only requiring the consent of one party to the conversation and others requiring consent of both parties. I would hate to see her record and then have her spouse use it against her as a criminal act. Please please please see a family law attorney (perhaps not in your small town, if necessary) asap.
I had a similar family dynamic growing up (though my father was physically violent as well) and it has definitely had a permanent effect on me. My mother made it out when I was 9. If she had gotten out earlier, I think we all would have been far better off. Hugs to you and what you’re going through.
L
Please talk to a domestic violence hotline first and ask them this question. In some cases it could be better for documentation and in others (for example, if you have no place to go) it could be very dangerous. Counselors can help you figure out what you need to do in what order to protect yourself and your son.
Blair Waldorf
+1
This is all dependent on OP having a safe place to store any collected documentation, and an escape plan in place. Safety first with all of this. OP can still win a custody battle without all this extra evidence.
Former Family Lawyer
Former family lawyer here. Police calls would help as long as they are reasonable – however, if a police officer were to say they were called for no reason, that would hurt her credibility. You’d probably have to get the police officer who was called to testify (reports are hearsay). Recordings may help, but I’ve seen more times where litigants set their hearts on them, only to find that the recording showed that their description of the argument did not come across in the recording quite the way they remembered it, so it’s somewhat of a long shot. Also, be really careful about making sure that you’re following the recording laws in your state, and making sure that the recordings can’t hurt you, too. Photos of things that he’s broken would be helpful, though she’ll have to testify and authenticate them. I would recommend that she take a long, hard look at what can be said against her and what evidence there might be for it, too, and make sure that she explains that to the attorney as well. If there’s a battle, there is a good chance that the court would order a psychological evaluation for all parties, so be ready for that, too. Nothing will be private – take a hard look at your emails (even ones to your friends or relatives), medical records, facebook (again, even private messages), text messages, work history, etc.
This may be harsh, but she should keep in mind that, unless he chooses not to pursue it or she can show that the child is in real, concrete danger (physical abuse or neglect), she’s going to have to share custody in some way. Most courts default to as close to 50/50 as possible in the circumstances. Which means that she is going to have to leave the child in his care for extended periods of time without her being around to see what happens. She’s not going to save the child from having a bad father with this move. It’s a bad situation, but I want her to know going in that this is not going to wind up with her and the kid living happily ever after (most likely). But, of course, that also means that the chances of the dad getting full custody seem very low.
I wish her luck. While most people work these things out before they get to this place, she may have a very long and expensive road ahead.
Thank god I’m out of family law.
OP - very anonymous
Thank you for this last comment. Part of what makes things difficult is that I know, absent some kind of severe physical abuse, + a family with enormous financial resources who want my son with them, that I am facing a very different situation than I would have been two years ago.
That no matter what, I am entwined with this man now for, if not the rest of my life, at least the next 17 years. And I am,unfortunately, very aware that there is no perfect ending where he disappears.
Also, I love him. I do. (Maybe this is why I feel like I’m crazy). But having a child has really put things in perspective for me in a way that I didn’t have before. I can’t comprehend a repeat of this morning at a time when my son is old enough to know what is going on.
KLG
This is very different situation since my husband and my stepdaughter’s mother were only together for a matter of weeks around the time she was conceived and thus my stepdaughter always grew up with them in separate houses, but her therapist thinks it is good that even though bad things happen at her mom’s house (lots of anger issues, rare physical violence in front of but not directed towards the children, etc.) that 50% of the time we are modeling a healthy relationship and constructive problem solving for her. She’s in middle school and the therapist thinks she’s finally starting to get that some of the behavior at her mom’s house is not “normal” or productive. While you obviously need to make your son a priority, kids are resilient and if your son has a safe, stable, and loving environment when he is with you, he can overcome a lot.
Obviously talk to a domestic violence counselor before doing anything, but I did just want to provide you with that.
Blonde Lawyer
I second former family law lawyer. Call a domestic violence hotline for emotional support. They should hook you up w/ an advocate. Consult a family law attorney. Find out what their caseload is like. Would they have time for an emergency motion hearing next week if you needed it? You want someone with success settling cases as well as someone with success litigating. Not someone that just does one or the other.
Know your state law. In some states you could be criminally liable for recording someone without their consent.
Prepare yourself emotionally that no matter what, near nothing in this divorce will keep you and your son 100% away from his father. Begin to think about what would be an ideal and reasonable resolution from your perspective. Does his anger focus at you or the kid or both? Read the Gift of Fear.
Also speak with your attorney about what you can do for your own safety without having to deal with allegations of parental alienation while the case is pending. A lot will depend on your state. Some are not very victim friendly, others aren’t very abuser friendly.
Keep posting here for all the support you need.
Good luck
I live in a small Southern town and no one likes a bully, much less to see a bully win. I’d talk to a few good attys and decide based on comfort level (and this will take into any conflicts that they may have or you may feel). Let’s hope he won’t shame his momma or grandmother.
AIMS
I have a friend going through a horrible divorce from a guy who seems very similar to your husband. My biggest advice is to have everything in place and ready to go before announcing your decision. Assuming you and your son are not in any actual physical danger, that may mean taking a few months to get organized, put aside some money, hire an attorney, gather all your documents, basically get your ducks in a row. If you have a friend you can trust, maybe leave all your important stuff (or copies if your H would get suspicious) at his/her place.
And also start documenting everything. If he sends you a nasty text message to say something disparaging, take a screenshot and email it to a private address. If he sends a nasty email, forward it to the same. Same if he leaves you nasty voicemails. Keep track of what you do for the baby and what he does — so e.g., if he tries to say you’re unfit, you can have facts on your side — he doesn’t spend time with the baby, you drop the baby off and pick up at daycare, etc., etc.
OP - very anonymous
I feel like I’m crazy. I feel like it would be easier if he hit me. I feel like I can’t tell anyone about it because nobody would believe me. How do you tell someone that your husband (who acts so sweet towards you in public, who is a community leader, Sunday School teacher and leads the church youth group…) will follow you around from room to room, bust locked doors, throw things at the wall, turn over furniture, until you are cowered down in a corner and he is standing over top of you screaming at you for 10-15 minutes? And then refuses to acknowledge that it happened the next day?
The thought of that happening to my son makes me physically ill.
I’m just terrified that nobody will believe me and that I’ll lose my son. TERRIFIED. It seems so easy when I think of advice to give another person, but I am overcome by terror at the thought of this man being able to raise my son. Body shaking, wake up at night crying terror.
I do not believe he would go about a divorce in a civil fashion. I believe he would say and do anything to ensure that he had sole custody of his son, and I strongly believe his family would back him up financially and socially, even if they personally saw him screaming and/or hitting us. I know I need to take a few months to really get my ducks in a row because I absolutely believe this is going to be horrifically ugly and I am so terrified for my son.
Good luck
I am so horribly sorry. I’d make sure to document everything you can. I know someone who had a small digital voice recorder that he had to carry with him every time he was around his ex-wife for similar reasons (also she had threatened to lie to law enforcement, and I think this was not something to take lightly).
And pictures of locks that get broken, etc.
Do you have neighbors that you know / can trust? If so, do you know what they have seen and heard? And can you have them keep an eye on you starting now (incl. telling them to please call 911 if they think they need to)?
Anon
OP, even if he never hit you, what you are describing absolutely is abuse. It’s unacceptable for him to treat you that way. It can be tough to acknowledge this because no one wants to see themselves as a victim, but remember that this happens even to bright, independent, assertive, confident women, and it’s not your fault. It might not be possible right now, but at some point in the future you should seek counseling to help you process all of this.
Ella
maybe you can put your phone in a pocket set to record during some of the times when he is verbally abusing you?
roses
In some states this is illegal.
Herbie
Forget legal v. illegal. How about it could put OP in incredible danger were her husband to discover that she was recording him?
mascot
Even in a small Southern town, there are likely people out there who know his true nature. That type of temper doesn’t stay hidden forever. If one of my friends came to me and said that this is happening, I would absolutely believe her. You aren’t a shrinking violet, you are a strong professional woman with a career and earning prospects of your own. Just because you had a few fights and said a few nasty things (all normal in a marriage) doesn’t equate to what he is doing. Judges still have a bias towards maternal custody. You get before a judge/jury as a credible witness and talk about his violence around you and it seems like you have a pretty good case. This is part of the abuse cycle to make you think you are weak, that you aren’t credible, that no one will believe you. Just because he says that doesn’t make it true.
Sarabeth
Just wanted to say that you are not crazy. Emotional abuse is real, and terrible. I can’t promise that *everyone* will believe you, but I second the recommendation to talk to someone at a domestic violence agency. I’ve worked in this field, and all the agencies I’ve worked with would recognize your experiences as a form of abuse that fell within their remit. Even if you don’t need access to shelter, etc., a decent DV agency should be able to refer you to lawyers and therapists experienced with abusive relationships. And I really, really recommend a therapist/counselor if you can find a good one. Especially if you are worried about finding support in your community, it can be very very helpful to talk to someone who is familiar with abuse and its aftermath. They will confirm to you that this kind of persona (charming to everyone except the abuse victim) is a very typical pattern in abusive relationships, and in no way a sign that you are crazy.
Also, I’m glad to hear that there has not been overt violence in the relationship so far, but keep in mind that the end of a relationship is one of the most likely trigger points for escalation of abuse. Again, this is something that a DV agency should be able to talk you through, but you’ll probably want to have a plan to ensure your safety when you leave. Stuff like, if you will need to give him access to your son as soon as you leave, how to do that safely and without revealing your new address.
Anon in NYC
I’m so sorry. Because this type of abuse is (unfortunately) so hard to document, I do think you should talk to a family law attorney or a domestic violence counselor and see if they have recommendations for documenting his abuse. For your own use, though, start writing down what you remember with as much specificity as possible (dates, what precipitated the abuse (like a conversation you were having), what he did, if you can remember what he said, where your son was at the time, what you remember feeling or thinking in that moment). Definitely leave this list in your office so he can’t find it. These types of details will bolster your credibility with a judge.
Houston Attny
+1
Anita
I don’t have any advice, I just want to express to you that I am so sorry you are going through this and that I believe you are strong enough to make it out of this terrible situation a better and happier person.
emeralds
+1. I am so incredibly sorry that you are facing this. You and your son will be in my thoughts.
ezt
I work in family law and agree with everyone else’s advice. Document everything in real time, have a few trusted confidants and a safe place(s) to go, get copies of absolutely everything (bank statements, credit card statements, deeds, birth certificates, health insurance) and keep them somewhere safe, and when you do talk to a lawyer, tell them upfront about anything you did that is bothering you (not that it sounds like it should), so that his ability to twist those facts is at least somewhat limited. I am so so sorry that you are in this situation – you are doing the right thing, you absolutely need to protect yourself (not just your baby boy). Good luck.
Blair Waldorf
I have done some work in domestic violence and can understand where some of your fears are coming from. I agree with what everyone has said so far. Document what you can while staying safe, try to get a separate account for money if you can hide it from your husband, and begin thinking of escape plans. Use “incognito” browsing if you are using your own computer to look at resources for yourself. Consider buying a disposable phone in case of emergencies. Try and find someone you trust who you can confide in, even if it’s a family member far away. I know it sounds like no one will believe you because of his role in the community, but this happens at EVERY socioeconomic level and abusers are very good at hiding their private lives when in public.
If you think you can manage to read this without him knowing, I highly recommend the book “Why Does He Do That?” by Lundy Bancroft. This is the most cohesive book I’ve read about why abusers act the way they do, and what you can do to protect yourself. Also, consider calling the domestic violence hotline, 1-800-799-SAFE.
Finally, if you think this would be acceptable, consider finding a therapist to talk to. You can say it’s about something else, like depression or something else. It would be helpful to have someone validate your experience and give you strength and resources to find a way to move on. If not a therapist, then definitely someone at the hotline or a different domestic violence agency.
Sending you lots of strength and love for being honest about your situation and your son’s situation. In terms of legal custody of your son, I know it sounds like no one will believe your story, but courts are familiar with abuse (some courts more than others). I would speak to a family law attorney about the best way to ensure custody and control over visitation rights. You may not want to pursue this avenue, but what you are describing would absolutely be sufficient for a 2-year order of protection against your husband. I don’t know if you want to deal with this in a domestic violence court, but it’s another option. Good luck.
Anooooon
“I feel like it would be easier if he hit me.” I have said these words to my therapist so many, many times about my emotionally abusive father. It would be easier. But abuse not being physical doesn’t make it any less abusive. Maybe some people won’t believe you – those people stink. You know it’s abuse, and we know it’s abuse. And you are not alone.
Samantha
Oh my dear. You are suffering through a lot and have had a lot to endure. I admire your courage in deciding to get out. I have no advice but please post back and let us know how you are doing. I’m probably nowhere near you but wish I could help in some way. Hugs and best wishes in taking this big step. You can do it!
Blonde Lawyer
One other thing I wish my clients could prepare for is the emotional capacity to deal with the fact that what the law should be and what the law is are not one and the same. Try to prepare yourself that your lawyer will ask a ton of questions. They are going to play devil’s advocate and ask what his attorney will ask. They will ask you questions to check your credibility. THIS IS NOT BECAUSE THEY DON’T BELIEVE YOU. They have to see what kind of witness you will be and how to best handle your case. Some people can’t emotionally go the long haul and a quick settlement is what is best. Others can’t tell their story in a way that will illustrate the abuse not matter how carefully the attorney asks the questions. They are conditioned to say they are fine. If that is the case, the attorney might suggest waiting to pursue a restraining order until there is more slam dunk case evidence. That does not mean you are not currently being abused and need protection. It means your attorney is concerned she can’t prove your abuse and you will be in more danger trying to get a restraining order and losing then waiting for a key piece of evidence like a threatening email or a threat someone else hear.
Your situation should be more clear cut because you are not just talking about veiled threats that you took as scary that he could argue were misinterpreted. There is no misinterpreting a broken door lock. But, I really want you to know that not every attorney has the people person skills to work with abuse victims, even if they have the best legal skills. That is why you need a therapist and/or advocate to help you process why your attorneys says and does what they do.
It is sooooooo hard to explain to an abuse victim that their abuser has rights and that if they want to win their case, they can’t violate those rights. (In my state that means no recording them without their consent among other things clients like to do.) You need to be able to understand your attorney is on your side and not the bad guy just because he/she has to explain bad law to you. Hang in there.
Lyra Silvertongue
+1. I’m having this issue with an aunt who is going through a hostile divorce. Whenever she doesn’t like the advice or explanation her attorney gives her, she asks me for legal advice, and then gets angry/disappointed that I didn’t come with some magical legal loophole or simply completely undermine what her attorney said. She interprets being told the reality of the situation, from a legal standpoint, as being “not on her side.” Furthermore, when her attorney advises a different course of action for sound strategic reasons, she thinks he’s just not listening. OP does sound like she understands that the abuser has rights, and hopefully that will serve her well during this difficult process. Best of luck and keep us posted, OP!
Criminal Lawyer
This is also 100% true in the world of criminal defense. It’s why criminal defendants hate their lawyers so much – they think we are not on their side because we are giving them bad news. (Like, “That’s against the law.”)
My Stepkids' Mom
“And then refuses to acknowledge that it happened the next day?” This is called gaslighting. Look it up. You are not imagining it.
Also, I second KLG’s comments about being able to save a kid by providing at least one healthy household. Our therapists have told us the same for years. However, the longer your son is exposed to the unhealthy behavior, the harder it will be for him to recognize it and you will spend a lot of time de-programming him. It has taken us years, and we’re still not there. Would have been better to separate/divorce earlier and get the kids that one healthy household when they were younger.
A couple good books for your son as he gets older (and for you to be thinking about now): “An Umbrella for Alex” and “I Don’t Want to Choose.” Both available online.
KLG
Financially, open up a new (individual) bank account and start diverting some of your paycheck there if you can do so without him noticing. If you do leave him, stick your whole paycheck in there as soon as you do so.
I second those who said to see a family law attorney ASAP.
Hang in there and best of luck.
Senior Attorney
You have had great advice already, and I am just chiming in to cheer you on. For the sake of your sweet son, do this as soon as you reasonably can. You don’t want the baby exposed to this kind of abuse (and it most certainly is abuse!), and you definitely don’t want him to grow up thinking it’s okay for men to treat women the way your husband treats you.
Hugs to you. Definitely lawyer up ASAP and find out how to document while keeping yourself safe.
TBK
I have no advice other than what others have said, but I just wanted to say take care, and please check back in with us. I know I’ll be thinking of you and I’m sure the other ladies will be, too, so please let us know how you’re doing if you can. Hopefully it will make you feel better to know that a group of relative strangers have heard your story and believe you and believe that it’s abuse. Please stay safe and please keep in touch.
Marilla
Agreed. We will all be thinking of you and please let us know if we can help in any way.
zora
This. I will be thinking of you and will always be hear if you need an ear or emotional support.
Batgirl
I will just say that as the child of an emotionally abusive man, you’re doing your child a favor by removing his influence.
Best of luck to you and your child.
Yup
Co-signed.
DeNae
I want to second a recommendation which was a bit buried. Hopefully, this will be a resource you can safely read even if your husband sees it. Please read “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin de Becker. It has a lot of invaluable advice.
Julia
I have been out of school for (many) years and still miss it every fall…but I don’t miss the papers, exams or presentations! To me, it still seems like September is the beginning of the year…not January.
Window Seat Wanderlust
Work Related TJ-
I have been working in consulting for about 1.5 years and was a college hire. I have been doing very well and many people above me have been helping me put together a submission for promotion this winter, and they are very positive about my chances.
However, at my most recent project that I started in the last month, a experienced new hire who was brought in at the level above me was put above me on my team. We work in a niche area, so being a new hire (even though experienced in our industry) basically renders you unable to do very much for a few months. It has been incredibly awkward between us because I am meant to report to him (oh consulting chain of command..), but I am much more competent and aware of our work. While I find this whole situation annoying, I have been told it will not effect my promotion, so I have decided to just be relaxed about it. He, however, is acting very immature and passive aggressive toward me. I think he recognizes he needs to use me as a resource to learn, but then he will send me very strange, bossy emails “directing” me to do things I had told him I would do (and copying our boss). He also will make comments to me about “stealing” his thunder, work, or other responsibilities. I am taking the lead in many meetings, but before meetings he often asks me too because he does not understand what we do, and then after he is upset he didn’t feel he got to shine. I get that he is trying to be clear that he is the “supervisor” and he is also trying to develop, but his method of doing so is very passive aggressive. I don’t want to feel like I am fighting with him for responsibility, but I also cringe at being so oddly bossed around by someone who has no idea what they are doing, and I do need to be taking on things to finalize my promotion (after which I will be at the same level as this person)…
Have any of you gone through something similar to this? How did you deal with it? I know that I am probably not dealing with it all in the best possible way, so I am trying to find a better way of working with this person.
bananagram
Can you go to a (slightly) higher-up and say ‘I need some advice about navigating this relationship’. Maybe your old boss or a co-worker about 5 years more senior would have good advice? I realize you’ve turned to thissite for advice, which is great, but there are advantages to going to local folks. First, newguy may get some mentorship on how to handle his new duties if people on the ground are aware there is a potential problem. Second, co-workers will have a very good feel for the dynamics of the situation in your company. Just make sure that it’s clear reporting to him is not a problem, but that you are just trying to iron out kinks in the relationship.
Hel-lo
Are other people annoyed by this guy too? If so, you should focus on you, and let him get in his own way. If his behavior is really this bad and noticeable, then he probably won’t be around too long.
Avodah
I’m in a similar situation. The advice I have received and will share is not terribly fun, but I hope it helps.
1.) Be polite at all times. Do not, do not, do not “fight” him. The more polite you are-the more leverage you have.
2.) Cover your butt. Email chains, F/u emails, clean and neat files
3.) Make friends. Your other colleagues and direct reports need to see how great you are. In turn, they will see how lame he is.
4.) When/if he behaves weirdly, ask HIS boss for help “navigating the relationship”. Keep it positive “How to work together to get the most done for the client” “Best practices” blahblah.
Dallas counselor for intimacy issues?
All, a friend is in a s e x l e s s marriage and wants to seek counseling. Does anybody have recommendations for a Dallas-area therapist/counselor who specializes in this area? Otherwise, any recommendations for how she can go about finding someone?
hellskitchen
PSA about student loans: http://news.msn.com/us/student-loan-forgiveness-not-used-by-millions
Sydney Bristow
It would also help if the loan servicers themselves were more knowledgeable about their own business. It’s taken quite a bit of work on my part to work out my IBR payments and nearly everyone I’ve spoken with at my servicers has been completely incompetent.
hellskitchen
Couldn’t agree more. My SO is struggling with this right now and it is such a time drain to deal with servicers who don’t know the latest policies
CountC
+1 I worked for a servicer and the level of incompetence even at the higher levels is pretty astounding. There are many instances where you can end up getting the loan written off because of servicer error. Check, double check and triple check everything they do and send you.
CountC
To add to my comment, a lot of times the lender will change it’s servicing guidelines and they don’t always get communicated to the call center folks in a manner that allows them to truly understand what is going on. Keep in mind that often, the call center folks are not given much education and are low-paid hourly workers. Not that it excuses bad behavior, but they aren’t always given the tools they need to help us by those who should know better.
Rosalita
Also, you have to stay in public service for 10 years for this to work. I did my stint in public service, but I can’t stay there for 10 years.
Avodah
I find this so useless. If you just work in the private sector you can sometimes pay your loans off in 4-5 years anyway. I wish the loans had more palatable interest rates…
Anonymous
sofi.com
Signed up a few months ago and cut some of my rates by about 2.5%. Haven’t had any problems so far. These are private loans, so you’ll lose certain benefits to having federal loans as a result, though.
Avodah
Did the same. SoFi is so awesome.
Blonde Lawyer
My school is not eligible. The only places that otherwise seem to refi student loans are Suntrust and Wells Fargo. Any experiences?
anon
I find your comment completely useless. This program provides a wonderful opportunity for people to take jobs in public service at lower salaries, but still allow them to live. That’s great that some people can get a job in the private sector and pay off loans in 4 to 5 years. However, some (if not most) private sector jobs would not allow for this and even if they could who cares?
Avodah
Why do people act like See You Next Tuesday’s when they disagree? I don’t find loan forgiveness, generally, to actually be helpful for most people with student loans.
cc
How is it being a c word to say your comment was useless? You said the program was useless, and she said your comment is useless. The program is not useless – its awesome. the people running it are difficult, but I don’t want to go to the private sector for 5 years, I want to work in the public sector without starving. This program allows me to do so.
anon
Thanks, cc! I frankly would never use the word that Avodah so casually uses, but talk about overreacting to a comment. I thought your original comment was incredibly cavalier and it completely dismissed a program that has helped so many people. You act like everyone has the choice to have a high paying job for 4 to 5 years to pay off loans. In some professions that is absolutely not an option and not everyone can or wants to work for some corporate giant making 6 figures right out of school.
Anonymous
It’s not useless to me! It’s allowing me to (hopefully) be able to do what I love to do and get rid of my loans. Also, not sure where you live, but most people I know who work in the private sector can’t pay off their loans in 4-5 years. Not everyone is NYC biglaw.
anon
I know this was somewhat discussed yesterday, so I apologize for the TJ, but wondering if anyone can offer a rec for a great OB in NYC (location doesn’t matter) with a top hospital affiliation that might be able to handle a high-risk pregnancy. TTC and we will def be high risk and don’t have an OB in mind…all ears and thanks in advance!
T. McGill
Anna Kremer at Mt. Sinai Faculty Practice, affiliated with Mt. Sinai. I believe they do high risk, and Mt. Sinai is top rated for NICU.
anonfish
I accidentally hit report instead of reply here (SORRY- please disregard). I posted late yesterday about Dr. Schweizer w/ Maternal Fetal Care Center of NYU. I used him at his last practice and was very happy. It appears that this center specializes in high-risk pregnancies. Also you may want to do a search on Urban Baby for info. I think there are some recommendations for drs affiliated w/ Weill-Cornell in this category.
Veronique
Cat, it would probably be helpful if you added a “confirm” feature to the report function, similar to how your email asks you to confirm if you want to delete something. That would minimize the number of accidental reports.
Jo March
+1.
afl73
Am I missing something? When I put this in my basket, I am only getting 30% off, not 40%.
HSAL
Yep, same here (not getting it, just experimenting).
Jennifer
I prefer the more traditional looking jackets, this one looks very basic