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Update: this cardigan is marked down in the big NHYS sale — there are about five colors, plus regular and plus sizes available.
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
With work travel resuming, this lightweight cardigan from Nic + Zoe would be a great multi-use piece to keep your packing to a minimum. (I don’t care how long the trip is, I’m not checking a bag.) I would wear this “4-Way” cardigan tied in front as an extra layer on a chilly plane, loose over a sleeveless sheath, or wrapped and tucked into a pencil skirt.
The cardigan is $98 at Nic + Zoe and comes in plus sizes 1X–3X, regular sizes XS–XXL, and petite sizes PP–PL. It also comes in black, white, kiwi, and punch. It's available in a few colors at Nordstrom in plus sizes.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
Sales of note for 10.10.24
- Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
- Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
- Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
- J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
- J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
- Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
- White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anonymous
I grew up on Team Cast Iron for cookwear and my DH had a bunch of nonstick pans when we combined kitchens (that seemed to flake and we quickly got rid of). We stayed at a rental recently that had really good lightweight (aluminum?) pans, along with some that were completely frightening (VRBO hosts: do not do this — nasty cookwear that is flaking or questionable may get me to note this on a review or to suggest BYO pans and cookwear). At any rate, for lightweight pans (think: for sauteeing), maybe with high-ish sides and a lid, what is the good stuff to buy these days? Lots of lockdown and vacation cooking has me thinking I need a lightweight pan like this (and also a stockpot, which I had and donated and now could use again).
Lily
I like the always pan.
Anonymous
You recommend? I’m trying to decide if they are worth the cost!
The Lone Ranger
Not lightweight necessarily, but All Clad. There are some less expensive versions, like the Williams-Sonoma version, that are really nice and work well. All aluminum cookware is frequently available at restaurant supply stores, if you know of one.
The Lone Ranger
My son recently purchased some Cuisinart “Professional Series” that so far seem to be really good. He bought a skillet and a saucepan and plans to add more pieces later.
Aunt Jamesina
Yes, I have Cuisinart’e triple ply line that’s made in France. I like All Clad, but the handles are really uncomfortable for me. Our set has held up really well for almost a decade.
“Eco” nonstick pans wear out and the ceramic coating turns sticky after awhile, so while they may not have the chemical concern of Teflon, they’re still rather disposable, even if you get more expensive ones.
Pompom
I also love the Cuisinart TriPly line. I buy open stock rather than a set so that I can pick and choose what I want. These are supplemented with LC enameled cast iron (a 5qt braiser, a 3-ish qt oval dutch oven, a 2-in-1 set, and a truly massive but wonderful deep lasagna pan).
For non stick, I have two Tramontina professional-line frying pans–one large, one small–and they are excellent. Inexpensive enough to be at peace with them not being “forever” pans, but truly price-defying quality.
Anonymous
I have a mix of All Clad and Tramontina, which is a tri ply all-clad knock off sold at Walmart, and the Tramontina are actually pretty good if you want something similar to All Clad without the All Clad cost.
Anonymous
I have the Tramontina stock pot. I’ve had it for about 15 years, and it has aged incredibly. And its function is excellent.
anon
+1 to All Clad. They cook evenly and hold up to scrubbing pretty well. With a pre-heat and light layer of oil, I find they are almost as good as non-stick without the downsides of non-stick
Anon
I’m still using the Club cookware set my mom received as a wedding gift in the early 70s (Mustard yellow FTW!). Works great and is available at estate sales and thrift stores. It’s aluminum.
Anom
Stainless steel pans are nice in addition to cast iron. Look for ones with solid aluminum cores. They clean up pretty well despite not being nonstick.
anon
I’m like you – Team Cast Iron. A thoughtful (wealthy) relative bought us some All Clad pans and those are also super useful – they hold up to quite a scrubbing, don’t feel gross and potentially chemical-y like non stick.
Ribena
My most used stockpot is from the IKEA 365 range and it’s great – stainless steel, simple, oven friendly. Excellent.
I also have a slightly bigger one that’s a Le Creuset knockoff from one of the supermarkets here in the U.K. (Sainsburys – their premium cookware is excellent) but it doesn’t get used as much just because it’s so heavy! Better for stews and things which I’m not making this time of year.
I treat sauté pans as semi-disposable – as others have said, the eco non-stick doesn’t last forever so I look around for them on offer. My current one is from a Jamie Oliver branded cookware range which I don’t think exists anymore!
Anon
I bought some green pans this past spring and love them!
test run
We have these and I love them too – they’re nonstick without the nasty coating and they are so easy to clean.
Dear+Summer
My Green Pan started chipping nearly immediately(within 2 months) and I followed all of the care instructions. I hand washed gently, only used low-medium heat and treated it with kid gloves.
Anon
I have a mix of Le Creuset, seasoned cast iron, All Clad, and a single Teflon pan for eggs. Different pots/pans for different purposes. The Teflon pan for eggs is whatever is cheap at home goods or target because they are sadly disposable, no matter how careful I am (hand wash only, never use metal utensils.)
I think you need a stainless steel pan for certain things where you don’t want the taste of the iron to get into your food. So, toasting seeds or nuts. Tomato sauces. White or butter sauces. Sauces that need to be whisked. Risotto. Things like that.
Horse Crazy
You know you can cook eggs in stainless steel, right? You don’t *need* to keep a teflon pan for eggs.
Anon
I *need* to keep a teflon pan for eggs because that’s how I cook eggs.
Anon
I was firmly on Team Cast Iron, but my wife is not. A small local cookware specialty shop recommended the Swiss Diamond brand, and to my amazement they are very, very nice. They’re lightweight and function and wear well. I still use cast iron, but now I also sometimes reach for these.
Butter Pat
Huge fan of my Butter Pat cast iron! I’m obsessed. It goes in the Green Egg, oven, stove top.
You don’t have to baby it (I wash it with soap) ever–I can make eggs on it (really).
OP yesterday
Thank you to the respondents yesterday for my foot discomfort question. I went out for some new shoes (birkenstocks) and already feel a difference. Will follow the recommendation to see a spot podiatrist and focus on functional exercises. Thanks!
Anonymous
My comment didn’t go through but I ended up in PT fir the same issues because they got so bad. They were related to posterior chain issues – tightness in my calves and overall weakness.
2x a day I stretch my calves, so short foot exercises, do toe yoga and do heel raises. You can Google the various exercises for flat feet. I also do a lot of glute strength at the gym now (bridges, hip thrusts, lunges).
I also was told not to wear the same shoes every day – like you I was wearing keds daily. PT told me to rotate shoes so I now rotate between 4-5 pairs. It helps strengthen various muscles in your feet.
Good luck!
Anonymous
Just wanted to add that I blame Keds and Chuck Taylor’s for ruining my feet. While I don’t have to be all Birkenstock or New Balance or Vionic anymore, I make sure that whatever shoe I wear has an arch support bump now and anything with such thin soles that you feel barefoot is a no-no as well. If you know you’ll have an activity with a lot of walking (conference, travel, etc.), that’s when it really matters. Also, get a running store to advise on workout shoes. You probably already know but some people don’t, one “Nike” isn’t the same as another for your particular gait and structural needs.
Worried
I didn’t reply yesterday, but I experienced similar pain in my 30s and I did finally see a podiatrist at 38 — I wish I hadn’t waited that long. Your post resonated with me because I remember at 29 wearing keds on a London and Paris trip and not being able to wear them at all when I returned. I now have two custom orthotics I use in some of my boots and shoes. I live in a city where I walk quite a bit every day,( at least four to ten kilometres) and I wear new balance and ecco shoes for most of my walking, as well as naot sandals, which work for me better than Birkenstock’s, but both are similar. I don’t always add my orthotics to those shoes as they work well without. In the winter I add the orthotic to my boots. I’ve mentioned here before that I went through many waves of purging and mourning my fun shoes. Nowadays, on the rare occasions when I find a cute and comfy/ supportive shoe there is literally a celebration in my household!
allieoops
Fantastic! I really recommend Vionic too, you can get them on sale at DSW. When you go to the podiatrist, you may want to save your old shoes and bring them in — they will want to look at how you wear down your shoes to see issues with your gait.
You may also get some mileage out of your current shoes if you put some really good insoles in them, like Superfeet.
Anon
Don’t forget you have to break in the Birkenstocks! I bought my first pair at a trunk show with a brand rep and she said the break in schedule was 2-4-6-8, which is how many hours you wear them for each of the first four days.
You’re going to love them when they mold to your foot shape. So comfortable!
Anonymous
I also recommend Spenco brand, either the insoles or shoes. We don’t wear shoes inside, so I bought a sporty Spenco slip on inside-only sandal that I always wear. Helps immensely with plantar fasciitis and fallen arches! I also fell victim to years and years of non-supportive, super thin flats and Chuck Taylors!
Anonymous
I have a lot of friends who are professional artists. They are talented and hard-working, often cobbling a life together with teaching, offering lessons, and either selling art (2D and 3D) or performing. I used to be a photographer, making $ by doing weddings, trying to build a portfolio, learning how to run a business, and hoping for commissions that didn’t involve working all weekend on my feet. It is hard work! [I still pursue art as a hobby and volunteer to each clinics with our local art museum, but got a desk job years ago because I like having health insurance, regular hours, and the promise of an eventual retirement.]
So I am a bit surprised that Hunter Biden (a trained lawyer, not engaging in artistic pursuits until recently) has an art show coming up and plans to sell many paintings at 6-figure prices. How is this possible??? I am burning for all of my friends still trying to make a living in this space.
Anonymous
No surprise at all. He has a famous name. That means he starts on third base.
Anonymous
Yep having a famous name and the connections that go with it.
I know a few minority women artists who are AMAZING artists yet they have a much harder time getting their work sold because 1) minority 2) women and 3) no connections to the profitable art world other than selling some work at cons here and there. One of the women did graduate from a well known design school so she has been able to make a career out of her art by doing work for various marketing firms, but the rest of them have other non-art related jobs to pay the bills.
Anonymous
What I would like to know is how to find these artists. My husband and I would like to purchase some original works but have no idea where to look or how to get started. It all seems to be word of mouth.
anon
I find then by following galleries mentioned by BIPOC women on social media.
Anonymous
Is there a way to find them without social media?
Anonymous
That strategy presumes that you are already following artists and therefore know something about art. What if you know absolutely nothing about art? How do you even get the names of artists to follow? The recipe bloggers I follow don’t tend to mention art galleries.
anon
Instagram is weirdly useful for this. I started following a few galleries and then when I saw art I liked, I started following those artists. Then went to those artists to see who they followed. Lots of artists support each other on social media (especially if you’re looking for women or POC artists, finding one artist you like can be a “gateway” so to speak to finding other artists). I’ve ended up buying a few pieces this way buying directly through the artist’s website or DMing on instagram.
anon
If you don’t want to use social media, google “galleries supporting emerging minority artists” or something like that. I have no fancy art background or anything like that – I decided I wanted to support BIPOC female artists and I started poking around the internet. Liz Lidgett Gallery is one of my fave gallery follows, Roma Osowo led me to others as well – I’m trying not to be a jerk about this but clearly Google is your friend. Search until you find something you like.
Anonymous
This is exactly what I needed–specific gallery names to get started. Liz Lidgett is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for. Thank you!
Curious
+1 to Instagram, but it’s not been easy for me to figure it out. I follow ettavee (African American woman living in France; very bright colors), and it looks like Liz Lidgett shows her works, so that’s a good start, but I’d like to find more landscape painters who are women of color and haven’t succeeded yet.
anon
I Googled “bipoc landscape artists” and got tons of leads to follow. I know nothing about this but gotta start somewhere https://soex.org/alternative-exposure/grant-recipients-projects/emergent-landscapes
Anonymous
I’m Anon at 9:39 – look up reniedraws on instagram, can find a link to her website portfolio there. She does mostly digital art her and her instagram stuff is more lineart in the comicbook style but still, take a look!
Full disclosure, I went to high school with her although we were in different grades and just passing acquaintances.
Anon
Here’s the website of my long time friend who is a full time artist and person of color. Love her work
https://www.kannaaoki.com/
Anon
I’m in mod with a link. Check out Kanna Aoki.
Monday
Tangentially, the book The Blazing World by Siri Hustvedt is about this issue. A woman submits artworks pretending to be 3 different men….
Mm
If you are comfortable doing so, would you mind sharing the names of some of your friend artists? I bet some of the women on this board would be interested in checking out their work!
Anon
https://www.kannaaoki.com/
I commented above
Anonymous
Yeah, why is this a surprise? Nearly all artists and musicians struggle and have to teach or work another job to make ends meet. On the other hand, people who start out famous can leverage that fame to do basically whatever they want and get paid too much for it. Witness the basketball stars who become “actors,” etc.
Anon
I have no idea how that works, but I was prepared to hate-scroll his stuff and was pleasantly surprised at how good it is. Not that I have six figures to drop on art, no matter who the painted it. I read somewhere (though I’m not sure where) that he’s been at it for a while, but has more recently transitioned from hobby/rehab pursuit to attempting to make a profession of it.
Cora
Wow looks like the galleries website has been hugged to death by all the people trying to check it out.
Anon
What does that mean?
I’m no art expert, so I only know what I personally like, and I was surprised that I liked it.
Agree with all those who noted that he’d probably have not had a shot without the famous name, but I figured that was understood. Unfair, but understood.
pugsnbourbon
I think “hugged to death” means that so many people have visited/interacted with the site that it’s crashed.
Anon
“hugged to death” means when the site gets so much traffic that it shuts down and you can’t access it.
Anonymous
It’s possible because art is subjective and who the artist is matters in pricing. Which is so obvious I don’t understand why you’re even asking the question except to stir up drama.
Anonymous
Like I get that for some avant guard artists who are pricey (but I don’t get their art) and for old masters and such. I worked on a case of a forgery once and it was fascinating. This I don’t get — like I don’t think that there will be a resale market because it seems that the whole point is funding the artist vs the value of the art as art.
Anonymous
There is no value of art as art. It is all about what people will pay for it. And part of that is who the artist is.
Anon
Exactly this. People have paid millions for rotting animals submerged in formaldehyde billed as “art.” That same artist also sold “dot paintings” that weren’t even made by him, but by “apprentice artists” in his “atelier,” for millions. People have paid far more than what Hunter Biden’s paintings are priced at for artwork made out of pubic hair, used tampons, bloody sheets, etc. Don’t look for logic in the art market; there isn’t any. Art is worth what people will pay for it. The fact that someone wants to pay $90 million for a David Hockney painting of a swimming pool, and won’t pay $900 for a technically competent, difficult-to-execute piece from one of the OP’s friends says nothing about the artistic merit of either work. Hockney got famous and is widely collected. It happens like that for a small fraction of artists. The vast majority will never experience that kind of success regardless of their talent. Don’t look for fairness in this equation; there isn’t any.
We buy art and we try to buy directly from artists if possible. We buy what we like and want to look at in our house for many years, that’s in our range of affordability. If it ends up being worth many multiples of what we paid for it, years later, great. If not, that’s fine; we enjoyed it and that’s what matters. If people buy Hunter Biden’s work because they like it, there’s nothing wrong with that. In looking at some of his pieces, I like his aesthetic and have seen far worse art in my time (in terms of composition, technical execution, etc.). If people are solely buying it because Hunter Biden made it, that may or may not end up being a wise investment. In 20 years no one will care he was the president’s son and it will be more about the artistic merits of the work, but he will still have name recognition. My guess is he won’t end up being the next Mark Rothko, but I definitely could be wrong, because no one can predict who the next Mark Rothko will be.
anon
I don’t buy art for resale and while I don’t have six figure pieces, I do have four figure pieces. So YMMV I guess?
anon
Same. I have a few four figure pieces. I bought them because I like them. I don’t know or care if they hold their value. Looking at the pieces gives me joy and that’s why I bought them and I like knowing that I supported the artist (all woman and one non-white man).
My investments are in the stock market. My house is the place I live. My art is something that brings me joy and reminds me to slow down and savor moments of beauty. I know some people buy art for investing but that feels like a fools’ errand to me.
Monday
I also know a lot of artists, including musicians. Unfortunately this is very common. Someone with a “name” shows up out of nowhere and achieves what others, with greater talent, struggle to do over a lifetime.
Anonymous
In some countries where the rule of law is not strong, you can just tip officials for good service. This is pretty clever for a country of laws. Like so clever that I’m impressed. I am sure that all of those OLC attorneys are all over this (yes? yes?). I am guessing that all buyers are prepared to have the value of this stuff plummet after the next election (or the one after that), which makes me thing every sale is for a bundle of attributes: one price for the actual art and one for . . . some smattering of access and influence. Which is fine, I guess, if there is sunshine for who bought what and how much was paid.
anonshmanon
A country of laws is a very strange phrasing…The fact that the gallery owner will keep buyers’ identities confidential (not even sharing them with Biden) and that he has pledged to reject suspicious offers or ones that come in over asking price, has been covered by the media. One could argue that full transparency might be another way to go, but that is very unusual for the art world.
Anonymous
I don’t think that that there is an art world exception to anticorruption laws.
anonshmanon
What anticorruption laws? The US has none to speak of. There is virtually no limit for elected officials who shape regulation for companies, to receive their direct donations and PAC support, to be wined and dined or taken out to golf by lobbyists, and to go on their payroll after leaving office.
Also steps are being taken to prevent these art buyers from unduly influencing the WH. They may not be the steps you would like, but it’s overly simplistic to pretend nothing is being done.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/deal-of-the-art-white-house-grapples-with-ethics-of-hunter-bidens-pricey-paintings/2021/07/07/97e0528c-da72-11eb-9bbb-37c30dcf9363_story.html
Anon
Exactly. This is a pass-through bribe.
Anon
LOL. What would someone be bribing Hunter Biden to do, exactly?
Do you also believe the United States government is run by a cabal of lizard aliens who have disguised themselves to look like people? Or that Biden is really Trump, because the night before the inauguration they did an operation in the secret chambers under the Capitol to sew Trump’s face onto Biden’s body?
Anon
Hunter Biden does not work for the US government. Government anti-corruption laws do not prevent him from working in any field he wants – although they could potentially prevent government contractors from buying his work.
Come talk to me when there is some evidence that his father (1) received proceeds from the sales or (2) did favors for anyone who bought the art. Until then, he is entitled to earn a living and it is basically impossible for him to do anything that will not be perceived as trading on his father’s name unless he wants to become an elementary school teacher.
We do not have many presidents in the modern era with adult children (not counting the ethical disaster that was the Trump administration) and beyond Patti Davis I am struggling to think of a single one who could not be perceived as cashing in on their family name (although in the case of the Reagan children their father was famous long before he became president). And that is not even counting what the kids did after their fathers left the White House. No offense to any of them, but I suspect their family name had something to do with their college admissions and career prospects.
Anon
Would anyone even look at G.W. Bush’s artwork were he not an ex-president?
Anonymous
I don’t think he’s selling them.
Anon
+100
Anon
I am no fan of GWB but I think that is a completely different situation.
No Face
Not surprising at all. He’s famous. Beyonce is not a painter, but if she sold something she made at a sip and paint party it would go for tons of money. Or if it turned out there was a collection of sculptures that RBG made – they would sell more than your friends’ work.
anon
It may be helpful to consider this Hunter Biden art show something other than it is billed to be. This isn’t an art show as much of an event where the wealthy and connected can buy the something from one of their own.
Anon
That’s basically every art show that happens in a major gallery in any large city anywhere. Please spare me any snootiness about “wealthy elites” if you’re posting here. We are the wealthy elites.
Anon
I use my 12″ All Clad skillet for everything.
Anon
…that was meant for the post above, oops.
HSV Anon
Thanks to all the commenters who shared their HSV anecdotes and info with me yesterday…I GREATLY appreciate it. Still not feeling comfortable with the diagnosis yet but I’m not feeling as doomed as I did yesterday.
xx
anon
Just wanted to provide an additional story – my BFF got a dx of HSV in her late 20s. She was devastated. Thought she would have to marry her (jerk) of a current boyfriend because he was positive and she thought no one else would marry her, felt tons of shame, etc. Fast forward 12 years – she’s married to a great guy with a lovely kiddo. She’s actually only had a few scattered outbreaks over the years since her diagnosis. It has not at all affected her life the way that she feared it would when she got her diagnosis.
Anony
You are not doomed! I’ve had it for 20 years now, since literally my very first time!! I’ve had some very bad experiences telling partners (that was mostly college though so… not unexpected) but it gets easier, all the way around. My current partner could care less. I only have outbreaks or ‘bad spot(s)’ as I call them when I am really stressed out but 3 days of Valtrex does the trick. I always have a constant supply on hand as I never know when the tell-tale tingle/itch will start (my doc is super cool about making sure I always have a current Rx for it). None of my flare-ups have been as bad as the first one either (which was horrible).
When I look back on my history, telling partners and their reaction to it, really helped weed out the bad ones… same with ‘friends’ too. I remember the gossip about me in my supposed friend circle in my 20s and it was cruel, so cruel. It’s so common nowadays that I would think it’s more of a NBD then it was back in the early aughts.
Back to Work
It has been a long time since I worked in an environment with any dress requirements, so I would like to get the wisdom of the hive as I prepare to return to a new office where the dress code is “business casual” with nice jeans being acceptable. Is it okay to wear a button-up shirt untucked with slim dress pants? Think a J.Crew shirt with maybe an interesting collar or pattern and a curved bottom hem. I know men are expected to tuck, so that is why I am unsure. Also is chambray usually okay as a fabric for tops?
Vicky Austin
To me your outfit sounds fine, especially since bis-cas includes jeans in your office, but chambray reads just slightly too casual to me.
anon
Yes and yes with the caveat that if I do chambray on the too, I fussy up the bottom a bit to balance it out.
No Face
Perfectly appropriate.
Anon
I can’t tell anyone in real life yet and my DH is on a work call for the next two hours but…I’m up for partner this year and I’ve passed the major thresholds for my law firm. It’s not guaranteed, but it’s a major step and I’m SO excited.
Thank you to this community – it has been incredibly helpful as a millennial lawyer trying to figure out the workplace!
Anon
Sending you positive energy for that last hurdle to achieving your goal.
anon
woooooooo! Sending you good vibes for partnership and sending you high fives on the latest hurdle you hit!
Anonymous
You got this!
Anonymous
Quick follow-up: I posted earlier in the week about not getting a minor promotion I asked for because it would “disrespect Joe,” who is not getting said promotion either but is a friend of the CEO (and a white male). I thought over the good advice you all gave me and I’m preparing for a meeting with my supervisor tomorrow. Question, is what I experienced something that could ever be a legal issue for the company (denying a woman a promotion for that reason when the CEO has praised my performance/has no performance issues with me) or does it not rise to that level? Honestly, I’m still kind of thrown by what happened and I’m trying to understand how severe it is, or not.
Anonymous
I wouldn’t evaluate whether it is actionable or not (generally, even if something is, I feel like you give yourself a black eye for future employers by suing, so it’s not enough $ at stake to retire on, I’d just not bother; it’s emotionally draining). I just think that where there is a ceiling on your growth, take that as a sign that it’s time to move to somewhere where you can reach your full potential.
anonshmanon
I don’t think so. Promotions in most workplaces are not an entitlement, with clearly laid out benchmarks and timelines. If they were, we’d have achieved better representation in leadership roles already.
But business needs are subjective and ill defined.
anon
+1
This doesn’t sound legally actionable, TBH. It sounds like office politics at their worst.
Anon
It could be. Many good employment lawyers provide an initial screening for free. If you want to post your location, folks may have suggestions for someone to call and chat with.
No Face
Consult with an employment lawyer who works in your jurisdiction. You wouldn’t necessarily win a whole lawsuit or anything like that, but you may be able to negotiate a better severance if/when you leave if you know your rights.
Anon
I’m so tired. I am blowing through PTO seeing specialist after specialist for multiple medical problems, and I can’t afford to waste my vacation days on anything else. But grabbing extra sleep when I can just isn’t cutting it, I’m just bone-deep weary. Can’t make decisions, can’t regulate my emotions, can’t remember what I’m doing when I walk into a room. Starting to think about asking for some unpaid time.
Anon
Do it. Take FMLA.
pugsnbourbon
Another voice in support of FMLA. You can’t heal when you’re exhausted. I hope you start feeling better soon.
Anon
I wish I had done this in a terrible job when I could not sleep, eat, or function.
Anon
Depression? If you can swing it, make a plan with a doctor so that you can use unpaid time wisely.
MechanicalKeyboard
Are they diagnosed problems? Can you try for intermittent FMLA?
Anonymous
I’m sorry. This is why I have always been a big proponent of separate sick and vacation time banks. I believe it is wrong to penalize people who are sicker or who have family members who are sicker by effectively taking away their vacation time. Sick time should be essentially unlimited (with an eventual FMLA or other leave trigger) and vacation should be generous.
Anon
+1 I have a job now with essentially unlimited sick leave and generous vacation time and it’s an incredibly perk. Everyone should have it.
Anonymous
How do you ‘get over’ s*xism when there are real life costs and not just hurt feelings. I recently went to an obgyn to deal with some lady issues and the whole appointment was spent telling me I was a failure to my DH for being childfree. So now I need to pay another co-pay, find another doctor, take more time off work, and hope I find someone who actually wants to help me instead of disapprove of my lifestyle. I just have so many frayed nerves from experiences like this I’ve given up on a lot of things that I really shouldn’t have to the detriment of my own health. How do you just move forward and accept the time and financial costs without things like this eating you up?
Anon
You report the doctor, for starters. That’s insane, unprofessional, and needs to be taken to a medical board.
The childfree subr3ddit has a databank of CF-supporting doctors sorted by state.
Monday
The doctor’s practice group or hospital also has to have a grievance submission process. I know it’s even more burden on you, but you’re totally justified in filing a grievance along with reporting to the board. Use verbatim quotes if at all possible. Write them down now if you can still remember any.
Anonnymouse
Oh yes! Report them!
pugsnbourbon
Report the doc and if they’re part of a larger health system, there should be avenues to lodge a complaint. I’m sorry this happened to you, it’s completely unacceptable.
Anon
This is so common though. I assume I’d be blacklisted by my hospitals if I reported all the doctors who hijacked entire appointments to comment on my life choices.
“I don’t understand why you need more energy. Doesn’t your husband make enough money for you to stay home from work?” (Got a second opinion who increased my thyroid meds, which is what I needed.)
“Your autonomic system just cannot handle standing up. I’m sure in the old days, you’d have just spent the whole day sitting or lying down, watching children or telling stories. Maybe you can find a path in life that lets you fill that role.” (I demanded a referral to an autonomic specialist so I guess this appointment wasn’t a total waste of time.)
“I’m sure that test result was a false positive. Looking at your chart, you’ve had too much testing already. There are studies that show it only harms patients to investigate systemic symptoms like yours to this extent. Patients like you never get answers, but I’ve found that sometimes their symptoms go away as soon as they have children. Let me refer you to a fertility specialist.” (I had two undiagnosed autoimmune conditions that were diagnosed the following year when I finally got a second opinion. Child free and not interested in starting a family, thanks!)
So many other examples. My specialist copay is $100. But I wish I could pay $20 to the doctors who take a look at my chart and conclude “I don’t want anything to do with this patient actually; I won’t be doing any doctoring today.”
Anonymous
You say, in the moment, “Are you really saying this to me right now? I will be speaking with the medical board.” and walk out.
Anon
You don’t. Call that doctor’s BS. Also, eff that guy.
Anonymous
Or girl.
anon
I think you mean woman. I’m not aware of any MD’s under age 18.
Anonymous
I did not
Anonnymouse
That really sucks – I’m sorry. One thing that may help you feel better about it is writing to the office manager/HR/appropriate person explaining what happened, why you won’t be returning, how it has affected you (like you’ve done here). Or, writing reviews online. There, at least, maybe you’ll prevent other women from seeing them and having the same experience.
Also, once you find the doctor you like, it may be worth mentioning to them why you left the other doc – those circles can be small and word may travel.
With those options, while small, may help you feel like you’re dong something positive with your crappy experience.
So, no real advice on how to move on, but commiseration. Hate, hate, hate that stuff.
Anon
That’s insane. I would have told Heather’s doctor off an huffed outta there like Samantha when she goes to see her hot woman doctor who understands what this is all about. And then laughed about it over a cocktail with my friends or husband about how absurd that was. But I don’t let the random idiocy of others impact me or my life.
Anon
Oh so many typos, my phone is autocorrecting – *I would have told him off and huffed outta there…
OP
Wasn’t a ‘him’ unfortunately which made the situation even more disheartening.
anon
Internalized misogyny is real, unfortunately.
anon
LOL. I was all, who the heck is Heather?!
pugsnbourbon
I love to think that I’d march out but it’s more likely that I’d be completely caught off-guard and shut down. This isn’t “random idiocy,” it’s endemic to the medical profession and OP was materially hurt by it ($ and time).
Anon
I hear you, but I also don’t let other live rent free in my head.
anonymous
Ugh, what an awful doctor. I’m so sorry. My OB/GYN has been a little more subtle about it. I am child free by choice (and 43 now) but every year at my yearly appointment she would ask me about having kids. I noticed sometimes she would make a sad face when I said no plans for having kids. One time she said that me and my husband would have “really cute babies”. I’ve put up with her for a long time b/c it’s just a 10 minute appointment once a year.
However the last straw was my appointment earlier this year when she said, “Maybe your brother will be the one go give your mom grandbabies”.
I will be looking for a new doc, so happy to see that recommendation for the subreddit.
OP
Oooof that comment, I feel you.
Anon for this
Huh. I am a physician (in a specialty, not OB/GYN) and I always ask my female patients if they are planning to have children soon or thinking about pregnancy, and I always ask if they are sexually active and what they are using for birth control. I do this because in my specialty there are common medications that are actively harmful to a fetus and we really need to plan carefully for pregnancy in many situations. Reading these responses – would this be considered pressuring if I ask each visit (unless I have documented they have had tubes tied etc)? I never consciously say anything to imply they should, but could the repeated asking (most visits with women) be perceived as pressure?
I usually try to phrase it like “any thoughts about becoming pregnant?” or “still using the IUD?” depending on their situation. Would this offend you?
Pompom
I like “any thoughts about becoming pregnant” because it leaves the door open for a conversation. 35, committed to being childfree, have been answering the “are you now or planning to become pregnant” question with a “oh hell no, never” since I was 23.
aBr
What you describe is fine. As a patient, I’ve also had doctors approach it from are you happy with your BC/need to make any changes. The real thing is no matter what the words are, as long as the doc asks the questions and MOVES ON without judgment then its fine. As someone purposefully child free, I appreciate when the doc then follows up after the no pregnancy plans with would you like to do something more long lasting/permanent about BC.
Anonymous
It comes down to tone. Are you asking the question in a rote manner like you ask about any other changes in health or habits? Or are you doing what folks here described – omg kids yet? No????Pouty face. Your DH and mom deserve better how dare you!
Anon
If my mom wanted more grandkids (well, she does), she should have had more kids AND not told us how much we dragged her life down. Sorry not sorry, but when your oldest is literally insane and you verbally torment your youngest for her entire life, don’t be surprised that you don’t have enough grandkids to field a basketball team.
Anon
Those questions are totally appropriate to ask since there are health and medication-related issues that might arise depending on the answer. The trick is to not have any judgment depending on the answer. I’m late 30s and childfree by choice, so my new gyno needed to know where I stood on the issue so that she could provide appropriate advice and healthcare to me. But as soon as I mentioned zero desire to ever have kids, she was like “great, let’s get on with the exam!”
Anon
No, this isn’t pressuring. I think it’s expected. Patients who do have something to tell you will welcome the opportunity, and the rest know you are doing your job. The pressuring feels different from normal doctor questions.
No Problem
I think my derm does this in a graceful way. The medication she prescribes me (spironolactone) can’t be taken while pregnant. So when she first prescribed it, and every time she puts in a refill, she tells me that I cannot take it while pregnant and if I’m considering becoming pregnant, to tell her so that she can taper me off. So she’s not asking if I’m thinking about becoming pregnant, she’s telling me that there is a risk to me and/or my fetus if I do and to alert her in such a case. Depending on how risky these medications are, that is a much better way to start the conversation than whether they are thinking about getting pregnant soon or are using birth control. Those could be follow up questions if needed after explaining the risks and contraindications.
My endocrinologist is the same way. If I get pregnant, I will likely need to change the dose or at least more closely monitor my thyroid levels. She doesn’t ask me if I’m planning to get pregnant, but she tells me what I need to do if that were to happen. So maybe that’s a route you could take.
Anonymous
I would HATE repeat pregnancy questions, the pressure to nor want – actively want – to stay CF is so massive. We get enough pressure elsewhere.
I would prefer that you always preface with something like «since these medications are harmful during pregnancy, I have to ask some routine questions about fertility» or something like that. The idea being to very clearly shift focus to general pregnancy, not personal.
In the same vein, I think all doctors should give (or hear) news of pregnancy with a «how do you feel about that?», never «congratulations». If it was me, I’d be there for termination, not congratulations.
Aunt Jamesina
WTF! That is not okay. Hope you find a great doc soon.
AIMS
I don’t “get over it” – I act on it. Here, by getting a new doctor ASAP. And, I get over the “time/cost” of that by realizing that having a good doctor, over time, will pay for itself many times over vis a vis my investment in that now.
Also, some unsolicited advice – ask your friends or doctors you like for recommendations to make this easier. I basically refuse to play the medical phone book lottery anymore and i am so much happier with the medical people in my life now.
Anonymous
I’m sorry. Sexist doctors are the worst – and so are disrespectful ones in general. My best friend is overweight and went in for a consultation with a breast cancer specialist (because her mother died of breast cancer) while she was postpartum. The doctor spent the entire time making assumptions about her diet and exercise and then not listening to the answers she was given. My friend said it went like this:
Friend: “Yes, I exercise six days a week, mostly on my Peloton, and I walk daily. I also do Crossfit, but haven’t been during COVID.”
Doctor: “You need to start exercising if you want to lose weight. Do you drink soda?”
Friend: “No, I never drink soda.”
Doctor: “You need to stop drinking soda if you want to lose weight.”
It was so enraging – the conversation has stuck with me ever since it was relayed to me! My friend complained to the hospital and switched doctors right away.
Anon
Omg. I’ve had this experience. I am overweight (not irreversibly so, not that it matters). I was having severe GI issues that they couldn’t figure out and I had to go to a liver specialist to have something checked. It was alllllll he wanted to talk about was my weight (which my GI specialist had already ruled out as the cause of my GI issue.) I was so sick all the time with my GI issues and it was also pushing me to a mental breaking point dealing with it, and I really didn’t need a lecture about my weight in that moment. When I got the survey from the hospital system for the liver doctor I literally wrote “I would rather die of liver failure than ever have to see this doctor again.”
Anonymous
Exactly! My friend was postpartum, her mother had died of the very condition they were discussing, and the doctor absolutely fixated on her weight and refused to discuss ANY other risk factors. My friend had had a much better experience with a previous doctor, including a conversation about weight, but that doctor actually listening to her concerns, took in information about her lifestyle, and treated her like a human being. I’m so sorry for what you went through with the liver specialist!
Pompom
Arghhh I hate this for your friends! I’ve been there, and thankfully have a fantastic doctor now who is a HAES provider. One tip that she gave me, if I ever encounter this again, was to ask “What advice would you be giving to someone who is not overweight?” and then just wait, or press for them to answer the question as asked.
Incidentally, I adore my doctor and can’t fathom returning to providers like this willingly.
Anon
“You need to learn how to listen to the answers your patients actually give you if you want to be a remotely competent physician.”
No Face
I’ve had this conversation!
Me: I’m in physical therapy 3 times per week because I was in a car accident. I can’t walk around the block.
Him: You need to exercise and lose weight.
Me: I literally just told you I can’t exercise.
Him: *dead silence*
Never saw that guy again.
Aunt Jamesina
This is enraging. Also, if someone is genuinely in need of lifestyle changes to be in better health, how on earth is berating or shaming them going to help in any way? I struggled with overeating in my twenties, but because I’m thin I had three separate doctors insist I was perfectly fine. Despite the fact that I told them I was sick to my stomach most of the time and physically and emotionally exhausted.
Anon
My husband’s doctor is fantastic about this. Before we met, DH was up close to 300 pounds (on a tall, broad frame, but still). Doctor said to make small changes and they would reassess in a year. One year later, DH was down about 15 pounds. Doctor was happy and said to keep it up. Next year, down 10 pounds from that. He’s now right around 240 and in great health.
I love that his doctor didn’t act like he needed to lose 50+ pounds in a year and much preferred to lose the weight slowly with sustainable changes. Five years later, do you want your patient at their goal weight and maintaining, or do you want them having yo-yoed all the way back up and then some?
Anonymous
I have no idea but I have a feeling males are treated more respectfully by drs generally. IDK if it’s to protect mens’ egos or what but I see drs. being a LOT more patient with men losing 10 lbs/year and congratulating them on that, and with women it’s more accusatory — you need to exercise (I do); you need to not drink soda (I don’t) etc., when men engage in the same bad habits. I think it may be in part because men go to the dr less to begin with, so if you offend them or give them impossible tasks like lose 100 lbs in a year, they are never coming back and there goes that business whereas women will keep going back and getting berated (not so much this generation of women but prior generations, definitely).
Anonymous
I have had exactly this experience with a gastroenterologist. I am a vegetarian who does not eat fried food, or drink soda, and she just spouted a bunch of garbage about I needed to cut back on meat, fried food and soda. I never saw her again and have been gobbling Tums rather than try again.
Aunt Jamesina
I am so sorry, that is such a gross thing to say. WHY is it so hard for some people to get through their thick skulls that some people genuinely don’t want children?
When I was in college, I had a gyn that looked at me over her clipboard and asked, “you aren’t sexually active, ARE YOU?” in a way that clearly indicated that I shouldn’t be. I told her I was, but that her question made me hesitate to tell her the truth (and then started crying because that’s how I roll in tense situations). I’m proud my 20 year old self managed to tell her the truth. It really, really sucks when you’re dismissed or disrespected by someone in a position of authority over your health. I feel like some doctors think it’s enough to be a wealth of information about health issues, when a big part of the job is being an active listener to gain a better understanding of people’s concerns.
Anon
I am really sorry that happened to you. I wish I was shocked, but I had a similar experience when I was 23(!) and I told a nurse practitioner we were on the fence about having children and I needed a long-term, reliable form of birth control, and so I was interested in getting an IUD. I got lectured about “waiting too long” and being “one of those career women who ends up barren because they prioritize their career over having a family.” She refused to give me an IUD because “you shouldn’t wait five years to start trying, and I don’t want to have to remove it when you change your mind a year from now and want to get pregnant.” My jaw was on the floor. I left the appointment without saying another word and spent half an hour crying in my car. She was so unbelievably callous and hit some nerves that were already sensitive with me around having children, my marriage, etc. It is such a painful experience and as you said, it’s a pain in the butt because you have to go through the process of onboarding with a new doctor all over again.
What helped me a lot was writing a letter to the practice owner (who wasn’t the NP) describing what happened in the appointment and explaining I wouldn’t be back to the practice. The owner called me, and we had a long conversation where she profusely apologized. It didn’t change my perspective about going back to that practice but it was good to have my feelings validated. This was before Yelp/online reviews but you can believe that had that option been available to me at that time, I would have written a review of the NP on every site I could have to warn people away from her. I didn’t end up complaining to the state licensing board as I later found out the NP got fired from the practice, which I felt like was enough for me.
In terms of getting over it beyond complaining, I think all we can do is resolve that people like this are not going to run our lives or live in our heads rent-free, and allowing this experience to prevent you from getting the medical care you deserve is giving the person, and the experience, more power than those things should have. It also helps once you find a caring provider who gets it and you get to have that experience, although that may take some time. I got my 4th IUD a couple of weeks ago (I did end up having a baby but did not want to have another one, so have had IUDs for 15+ years now) and had a wonderful experience with an extremely caring provider who spent a lot of time with me, answered all my questions, held my hand through some tough cramping I had after the insertion, and was just in general an awesome human being and care provider who really helped me. Those folks are out there too. I have had a very mixed bag of experiences with care providers over the years – the NP above wasn’t my only bad experience – but I’ve had good ones too, and when I get nervous about seeing a new person, I try to remember the good ones. It is going to take some time, though, and don’t feel like you have to “get over it” before you’re ready. Again, I am sorry this happened to you.
Anonymous
Doctor disrespect is hardly new. My favorites are the raised eyebrows I get from everyone down to medical students about never having gardened despite being middle aged (yes I know it’s weird in the western world, but unmarried practicing Muslim). Then there was the frat bro cardiologist one time who asked if I was married/had kids and then made a comment regarding – well that’s advantageous in some ways but there are downsides to being single/childless. Uh thank you but I’m here because I passed out in the train? I mean I guess a husband could’ve caught me? I know why drs. have to ask these questions in certain circumstances medically and sometimes ask to get to know you, but my goodness the judgment; like if a person passes out in a public space, I really don’t think her marital status matters esp at an appointment the next day so it isn’t a — should we call someone — situation.
Anonymous
Sorry you’ve gotten that attitude from anyone. Your faith and how you live it are your choice, and frankly this isn’t unheard of amongst devout Muslims. But I would NEVER put up with that attitude from a medical student, even a raised eyebrow or a giggle. They need to learn which isn’t going to happen unless they are called out by an attending – they’d be reported so fast their heads would spin. I know some people would say oh they’re just “kids,” now they won’t get honors on that rotation but whatever – being in any exam room isn’t their right, it’s a privilege and they ought to understand that.
Anon
My regular OB was out, so one of the older male retired partners was covering for her. I went in because I had little red bumps all over my lady bits. The old guy said it was folliculitis (it was) and that I needed to stop shaving there and “being promiscuous.”
The female nurse in the room kind of gasped and said “doctor, lots of women shave there.” And I told him I wasn’t promiscuous. In fact; my partner at the time has now been my husband for over 20 years.
I reported this conversation to my regular OB the next time I saw her and she apologized and said that my comment would help the practice decide never to bring him in again. The nurse had apparently already relayed the conversation as well, and I got the feeling it wasn’t the only one like that that happened while he was covering.
So imagine how many patients he shamed like that over the course of his career before retiring?
OP report that doctor!!
Anon
What do you consider a reasonable amount of free time to have in a day? How often do you meet that number?
(Trying to make some decisions about work-life balance and hiring out projects/chores. Want to get a feel for other people’s baselines.)
Anonymous
What is free time?
anon
It depends on what you mean by free time. Does free time = all non-working time? All non-working time not spent on house related items like laundry, mowing, etc.?
For reference – single, no kids.
M-F – I do not allow myself to work more than 9 hrs a day but usually it’s closer to 8. I do minimal housework bc I have a cleaning team in every other week – just tidying and laundry (which I mostly do during working hours). The rest of my time is technically free time I guess? But I have lots of activities so it’s not sit still free time. I run a couple errands during the week if I need to but it takes 20-40 mins max at a time. I do my own grocery shopping bc I enjoy it.
Sat/Sun – I detest mowing but haven’t quite caved yet to paying someone. That’s probably going to happen next year though. I would rather be out riding my bike, running, at the barn, or literally doing anything else.
Anon
OP here: I’d say not working at a job or doing errands/chores, plus whatever personal obligations you may have (childcare, eldercare, petcare, etc). Time that there isn’t something requiring your attention and you can choose leisure if you want.
anon
Then I’d say 80% of the time I am not working is free time for me.
Anonymous
Chores aren’t free time.
Anonymous
I need a lot – when I was only getting 2 hours or less due to a long commute, I struggled. This is part of the reason I’m leaning against kids. Ideally I’d have 3-4 hours on weekdays and all day on weekends.
If you’re wondering whether chores are taking up too much time and you can comfortably afford it, I’d hire out whatever chores you can. I remember a post here last year (or so) where someone posted saying that she did 10 hours of chores just during the weekdays and more on the weekends. To each their own, but I don’t want to go to my deathbed having spent most of my weekends doing chores. It’s really, really important to me to have microadventures and big adventures that are memorable and exciting on the weekends. I’ve had a challenging life and this is the outlet that gives me happiness.
Allison
Interesting question! This is an indirect answer, but I used to work a job with insane hours, and when I changed jobs and started ending work strictly at 5 or (latest) 6pm I was pleasantly surprised by how great it is to have the evening free like that.
Yesterday was a great relaxing evening. I (single, no kids, late 20s, major city) finished working (WFH) at around 6pm, went to the gym and swam for an hour, went on a walk and got dinner, came back and did a puzzle for a bit and fell asleep easily. These may all seem like little things, but I wouldn’t have had time to do all of those things at the same time at my previous job.
Anon
After reading your definition, the answer would vary depending on how you’ve chosen to live your life. I don’t have kids but I’m married with pets, but I don’t see caring for them as “not free time.” Outside of my time in biglaw, I’ve kept a very reasonable work schedule (about 35-55 hours a week depending on the week, usually averaging around 40), and time not working is my free time. Sometimes I waste it, like now, when I’m reading and commenting here, other times I’m walking the dog, but I love doing that, or whatever. I outsource housecleaning and about 50% of cooking.
anon
If by free time, you mean time to myself, decompressing, doing exactly what I want… I usually get 1-2 hours/day. I only work 8 hours/day, so my outside of work time is at least 8 hours/day. That time includes family time (sometimes fun and fulfilling, sometimes not), chores, errands, morning/evening routines, working out, commuting, etc.
anon
Replying to my own comment after reading some others… fun/rewarding time with family varies wildly by the day, but we prioritize eating dinner as a family (20-30 minutes), and I read to my kid every night (45 minutes). Those are almost always good times. Some weeknights, we also take a walk or bike ride, play board games, or just watch TV (up to 2 hours, maybe). Most weekends, we either have a big get-together with extended family or friends, or we try to go have a mini-adventure. Those things fall somewhere between childcare and my “free” time.
Anonymous
I get cranky if I have less than 2 hours a day. At a minimum, I need time to decompress before I can sleep. If I don’t have at least an hour of down time before bed, then that hour is coming out of the time I need to be asleep because I’ll just toss and turn.
Anon
I have a lot. I’m late 20s, single and child free. My job is either 8 hours a day (75% of the time?) or 90+ hour weeks (25% of the time). I live an 8 min bike ride or 25 min walk from the office, and am walking distance from almost all errands, many friends, etc. I work out a lot but that’s a hobby for me, not an obligation. I meal prep so I cook one or two times a week and I spend probably less than an hour a week cleaning (vacuum, do laundry, which includes changing my linens weekly, clean kitchen and bathroom) and then spend about 5 mins/day tidying my bedroom and living room. After that – my time is my own.
I socialize a lot, I work out a lot, and I have other hobbies that I spend time on. I do spend some time each day on self improvement (Duolingo and Elevate apps, etc). I do some TV/vegging time but mostly keep myself active. I drive out to the suburbs to see my family approximately once a week which is a mix of fun and obligation.
Anon
I lived most of my working life with two free hours after I put the kids to bed. Everything else was taken up with work and dinner and child stuff. So when they went to bed at 8 I tended to stay up until 10 either watching TV or reading.
I am semi retired now. (I’m 56.) I find I need at least 9 hours of sleep and more than 2 hours of free time in order to function. I’ve also been diagnosed with an autoimmune disease (RA) which may be a factor, but also helped me reevaluate my life and my priorities.
KW
Any recs for a good CBD product that works for low level anxiety?
anonymous
I have used the gummies from CBDMD. Not sure about anxiety, but they definitely helped me sleep through the night. I used take one right before bed. I need to order more. I’ve seen Equilibira featured on Wardrobe Oxygen, but haven’t tried that brand.
anomanomanom
I have good luck with Steady Clarity tincture.
anon
I’ve always used Floyd’s of Lancaster bc I have personal connections to the company and trust their processes.
anon
Oh FFS Floyd’s of Leadville!!
Anon
Has anyone bought a suit in the last few months and been happy with the quality? I need a new suit before fall, something that I can wear to court/trial and would be high quality and last for years (with proper care). My current suits are all J Crew and Theory Outlet from 5-10 years ago, and I can go a little higher than that in price point but only if the quality is there. Would like something with multiple pieces (pants and a dress?), that doesn’t look too young (I’m in my late 30s). Size is probably around a 2.
Anon
I am your size and close to your age (early 40s) and I have been happy with Hugo Boss (on sale). Still pricier than Jcrew but good quality and holds up well.
Cat
+1, also similar age.
JCrew’s quality has taken a real nosedive the last few years. My last suiting pieces from them were 2014 era. I’m casually in the market as I tend to buy a new one every 5 years or so (I wear suits only sporadically) and I’m eyeing Boss for my next one.
Anonymous
Brooks Brothers.
Fun suits
My fav suiting brand Argent is doing a massive sale on everything right now (and they never have sales). There are one or two conservative suits, but they really shine for the fun ones. I have several and get frequent compliments.
MM LaFleur also has some suiting on sale that might fit what you need.
Anon
Do you know if Argent has a store? Looks like on google that they had one on Broome street (NYC) but it’s closed. This looks so great but everything is final sale and I need to try things on since I’ve never bought from them before…
Fun suits
They don’t. I’ve visited their show room before they had a store but it’s all closed. You might try emailing them to see if they will send you measurements on specific garments. Most of my suits are a few yrs old from them and I find they run slightly small. My absolute favorite is the reversible suit. I’d probably err on the side of going slightly larger so you can tailor if needed.
bbb
My ads are playing sound and then I mute them and then they start playing sound again. It looks like maybe just a Dell ad but not sure about that.
Cat
Two practical suggestions – 1. install adblock if you haven’t already, 2. if you’re using Chrome, right click the tab of this s-te, and then click “mute s-te.”
anonshmanon
muting tab is also available on firefox – very useful feature!
bbb
WOW!!! Amazing tip! Thank you!
Anonymous
Not to jack your thread – but is there a way to disallow videos that automatically play on your phone or computer? Either with ads or just in the website. CNN is horrible about this.
Kat G
Thank you guys for your patience — my ad reps are doing the best to track all of these noisy ads down. Please click the “report this ad” button every time you hear one if you can catch it.
anon
So this is the dumbest question, but I figure others may be able to relate. A few years ago, I bought a pricey (for me) laptop bag from Knomo. The style is beautiful and sleek. However. Now that I’m doing a hybrid schedule and carrying my laptop almost daily, the crossbody style is not doing my shoulders any favors. I would prefer to carry a backpack but haven’t bought one because it feels wasteful to ditch a nice bag that’s in good condition. I don’t do thredup or poshmark. Is the Knomo bag even something that would sell on those sites? I don’t expect to make much, if any, money from selling it, but unless I can find a better home for this bag, I feel bad “wasting” money on a new bag.
I feel like I have bought so many wonderful, yet ultimately terrible, bags. Is there even such a thing as a work bag that’s perfectly organized, the exact right size, attractive, and not an ergonomic nightmare? I also have several lovely leather totes that also aren’t fun to carry anymore. I swear I’m developing sensory sensitivities as I get older. All I know is that my closet is a wasteland of bags that aren’t getting carried, and I feel a little ill about the money I’ve spent on them. Nothing outlandish, but $100-200 here and there adds up!
Anon
I am pretty sure that bag doesn’t exist. I traveled weekly pre-COVID. I have many beautiful laptop bags. Not were quite right from an organizational perspective and all gave me shoulder pain. I bought a Tumi backpack and it is perfect.
Anon
Which Tumi do you have, if I may ask?
Anon
I have two. They don’t make either model anymore, but the Hilden and Carson are similar. Both are nylon and on the smaller side. They have held up well. The first one I bought had a strap tear off the first time I used it (with a very light load). When I called Tumi they were horrible and said it wasn’t covered under warranty. I went to the local store and they apologized and exchanged it. No issues with the replacement. It kind of killed me to pay $400 for a nylon backpack, but they look a little more professional than most of the others I found and are lightweight. I don’t regret them.
pugsnbourbon
Do you have any friends who might be interested in the bag? Would definitely be simpler to just give it away, and you wouldn’t feel like you wasted it.
And I hear you on the ergonomic nightmare. After my first work trip with a cross-body laptop bag I bought a backpack with tons of padding and never looked back.
Anon
I did this. My friend who travels a lot for work but always has a car will make a much better use than me of my upscale laptop bag. I am always on busses/walking, backpack is the only way for me.
Anon
Sell them on Poshmark.
Cuyana
I have the Cuyana convertible backpack–it’s a backpack, a crossbody, top-handle bag and I am obsessed with it. Perfect work bag and great for my shoulders (mostly wear it as a backpack).
Curious
I love my North Face work backpack!
KP
Retired teacher here, so I have never carried a laptop. Is this a nonnegotiable part of work nowadays? How did we end up in a place where women have to carry heavy loads back and forth to work? This can’t be healthy. Is there seriously no alternative?
Anon
I found my unicorn bag a few years ago (2018) and have recommended it here a few times: a Salzen backpack. I’m not sure if they ship to the US though (they are available in the UK and EU). You might find them on ebay too
Anon
I subscribe to the philosophy that for anti-aging purposes, its best to save money on skincare products and spend on botox and filler. I used to go to a derm for botox and filler, but started seeing a plastic surgeon instead this year for a variety of reasons. Both the derm and the plastic surgeon recommended “medical grade” skincare products, which would totally eat up my botox/filler budget. Specifically, this Neucutis eye cream that costs $108 was really pushed for my dark circles (I have under eye filler to correct this but still need to wear concealer). Can a fancy eye cream really be more effective than a cheap one? I’ve been using a Good Molecules one that costs $6 and have been reasonably happy with it.
Anon
My derm has told me that the only truly worthwhile skincare products are Vitamin C and Retinol (I use rx tretinoin). I would definitely not buy that eye cream.
Anonymous
Your doctor is pushing nonsense
Veronica Mars
Here’s the thing– unless you’re fighting wrinkles I’m always very wary of under eye creams for dark circles. It depends on your skin tone. If you’re lighter skinned, your skin there is just more translucent and the “darkness” is really your blood vessels, which a cream can’t really treat… because, you know, it’s your blood vessels. But it depends, some people may gave different results. I also recently watched a YouTube video from the Victorian Cosmetic Institute on the longevity of under eye fillers (this particular doctor no longer does them); you may think about checking out his opinion on them. I found him to be incredibly well spoken and seemed incredibly knowledgeable (although he also does lean against fillers in general). Random q- how much do you pay for botox? I’m thinking of getting started myself.
Anon
The general Botox rule I’ve seen is that $10-12 per unit is average for all but the most extreme markets (very low COL or very high COL).
Some places charge per “area” instead (like X dollars for between the brows) but that is seen as less professional since they can get shifty with dosage that way.
Hermione
I spend most of my skincare budget on products with SPF and exfoliating acids (AHAs). I refuse to get Botox or filler.
Anon
Same philosophy as you. Have yet to see anything in a jar that works. I’d pass and just accept that there’s not much you can do about your dark circles.
Anon
If you already get fillers that mostly correct the dark circles, I in know way think it’s worth it to get a $100+ eye cream when a drug store concealer will work just fine.
Save your money and use it on what works – quality sun screen, retinol, vitamin c if you have uneveness, a decent moisturizer and botox.
I’m not a fan of fillers due to increased evidence that it doesn’t go away that fast and your face gets bigger over time due to the hydrophilic nature of some fillers. I’d rather look old than have pillow face.
AZCPA
If they are pushing products that much, I’d start looking for another provider. If they are working that hard to meet a sales quota, I wouldn’t have confidence they have your best interests in mind.
For your specific question on eye cream, I’d say that a fancier eye cream is likely better than the $6 one, especially if you have a specific issue like dark circles you want to address. But fancier doesn’t mean over $100, I’d check out options at Ulta/Sephora (who will take things back if you don’t like them unlike a dr office) and spend maybe $30?
Anon
I spend on pricey-ish skincare because I have sensitive, rosacea prone skin and need batch consistency and good ingredients. That said I wouldn’t buy so-called medical grade skincare because there are plenty of brands that do the same for less. Your doctor’s office makes a hefty markup on those items so their recommendation isn’t neutral.
My dermatologist, who is sadly retiring, recommends La Roche Posay and CeraVe. She doesn’t sell them which means I believe her recs.
I daily use a mix of Curology, Biossance, Super Goop, and I’m using up the dregs of some expensive Tatcha cream that I won’t repurchase. I use some LaRoche Posay moisturizer when my skin is acting up.
Anon
Anyone else want to go on vacation, but not deal with all the planning (so many details, and if I leave it to DH, we’ll be staying at a Super 8), traveling (messy public bathrooms, congestion, humans behaving poorly), packing, and laundry? I’m happy once I get wherever I’m going, but oy, all the work before and after seems enough to outweigh the benefits of the vacation.
This could also be my exhaustion from moving in May talking… I just want a fairy to come and handle the remaining boxes and organize our closets.
Marie
On the vaca decision and planning fatigue, this is what a travel agent is for. I send mine some vague ideas I have (ie: beach, but no more than a 4-hour flight, sometime in Jan-Feb, don’t want to spend more than $7K, want to go for 5-7 days), what is important for us to be doing as far as sight seeing, food, etc, budget, and then let her send me the options that fit my criteria. I then only have to review 4 or 5 places and choose from the list of hotels/excursions/etc she has put together. It takes so much time and mental labor of my plate. No one can save me from myself when it comes to packing only 1-2 days before we depart.
Can’t help you on the closets. Mine is an absolute mess.
little mouse
if you have the funds, outsource some of the work.
hire a travel agent for the travel planning!
hire an organization expert to help organize your home!
Anonymous
Isn’t this what all inclusive adult resorts are for?
Anon
This! Use a travel agent. Get them to arrange airport/resort transfers. Throw in your bag: toiletries, sunscreen, swimsuits, coverups, flip flops, clothes you would wear to supper (check with your travel agent for what’s appropriate), one outfit for excursions in case you decide to do that, and tip money. Now all you’ve got to do is find your gate at the airport to leave, and find your car in the airport parking lot when you get back. The rest is seamless. We started doing all inclusive for vacations when I decided that anything I had to plan and organize, and handle laundry and meals while there, was not a vacation for me and I wasn’t having it. “Trips” for us are distinguished from vacations in that trips are to somewhere cool and interesting, and we will be on the go while there, cramming in as much as possible. “Vacations” are for rest and relaxation, and unless you own a house with staff, it’s hard to beat a nice all inclusive for that. Sounds like you definitely need a vacation not a trip right now!
Anonymous
I agree it can be tiring, but in my experience, it’s SOOOO worth it. I’ve never gone on a vacation and thought “ugh I wish I hadn’t spend those six hours organizing this, this sucks and I wish I were on the couch at home.” Vacations are good for your mental health, they’re memorable, they help you feel grateful and alive. Just reframe it in your mind as “this is worth it!”
Plus, the best vacations (for me) DO take extra planning. I don’t enjoy all-inclusives or trips where I spend the whole time lounging/not leaving the resort. It’s not for me. I want to do ski trips, European walking vacations, or whitewater rafting trips. They take a lot of planning, but the level of return on investment is REALLY high for what I like to do.
No Problem
My travel hacks are the following:
1. Create a generic packing list you can pull out every time you travel. List all of the clothing items, toiletries, accessories, medications, special items (e.g., swimsuit) you might ever need to pack. Print it. Stick it in the pocket of your suitcase. Use when packing. This way you won’t forget to pack things, and won’t be scrambling last minute because you did remember the sunscreen but not until 5 mins before leaving.
2. Get packing cubes. I don’t understand why, but they make packing so much easier and really do allow you to fit more in a suitcase. Plus you can pack in stages if you need to: pack your undies cube and set it aside while you’re waiting for laundry to finish so you have the tops you need to pack. Corollary: get travel size containers for toiletries and make use of a toiletries bag to keep it all organized.
3. Just say no to complicated itineraries if it stresses you out. If it’s easier to fly than drive, fly. If you hate flying and prefer to drive, then drive. Don’t book flights with layovers unless the cost differential is really substantial.
4. Standardize as much as you can for travel. For example, if you fly, always park in the same parking lot at the airport in roughly the same location if you can (e.g., economy lot, southern corner near the big oak tree). If you have a mid-day or evening flight, plan to arrive at the airport early and just eat lunch or dinner in the airport. Less stress of missing your flight because you were running late. If you have too little time for a sit-down meal, you default to the grab-and-go option; in all cases your plan is to purchase food in the airport before your flight so that you are not hangry. If you drive, always take the same vehicle and pack things in the vehicle in the same location (luggage in the trunk, any food on the back seat, etc.). If you drive similar routes, stop in the same locations on each trip (always stop at exit 37 for lunch and bathroom at McDs and gas across the street). Agree with DH on one or two chains of hotels that are acceptable and only stay at those (e.g., Fairfield Inn is fine, Super 8 is not).
5. There isn’t much you can do about messy public bathrooms, traffic congestion, and humans behaving poorly, so your best bet it to just accept them as the price of admission to going on vacation. Messy public bathrooms can be mitigated by making stops at places more likely to have clean bathrooms (e.g., the McDs or the toll road rest area vs. a random gas station). Traffic congestion will just depend where you are, but maybe try to plan your trip so you’re not departing or arriving in a city at rush hour. Human behavior…thank the heavens you don’t have to deal with those people on a daily basis and move on. Also give people grace for also being in a stressful situation and not being on their A game.
Anon
This is wonderful and super helpful, thank you!
Anon
Have you tried not planning? A few times DH and I just got in the car and left. Amazing way to vacation, IMO.
We’re casual/national-park people, though, not cruise/resort/city people.
Cat
My best travel hack is spending the annual fee on a credit card that comes with lounge access. We probably break even by the time you include the free checked bags and not having to spend money on food or drink at the airport, but even if we don’t, the peaceful clean lounge experience makes every trip SO much better.
Anon
Great idea for air travel, thank you!
SC
I recommend using a travel agent for an all-inclusive. If that’s not in the cards, I recommend visiting a small, manageable city within driving distance, with a good combination of city and nature, a manageable number of things to do, and a flexible itinerary.
My favorite way to “plan” is to use lists in Google Maps to flag activities, hikes, museums, restaurants, etc. that look good to me, based on recs from people who live there or who have been there and, failing that, online lists. I end up with a good idea of what I’m excited about, and I choose where to stay based on proximity to the stuff I want to do. Once we arrive, we choose where to go and what to do based on mood, weather, and location. We also leave ourselves open to local recs. It’s worked really well on several trips to small and medium-sized cities. I’d want to plan more for trips to larger cities (especially first trips), but I did this on a trip to NYC where we were staying in a neighborhood I was unfamiliar with, and it was nice to know where the neighborhood coffee shops and rooftop bars and bookstores were in relation to our hotel.
Anonymous
PSA for the child that has everything: we were at a thing last night and the host family had this toy. My kids loved it! We need a ride-on unicorn in our already cluttered house like we need a hole in the head, but maybe you do! I had never seen such a thing before and definitely would have considered it when my kids were younger.
https://www.amazon.com/PonyCycle-Official-Unicorn-Walking-Animal/dp/B07V67VS9W/ref=asc_df_B07V67VS9W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385655113616&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18372432792282371474&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001878&hvtargid=pla-844981961994&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=77759704239&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385655113616&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=18372432792282371474&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001878&hvtargid=pla-844981961994
Anonymous
This is the kind of thing that is perfect to play with at a friend’s house. If you buy one, the novelty wears off after a few days and then you have a giant expensive robot unicorn taking up space that you can’t get rid of because the kids will object even though they never use it.
pugsnbourbon
+1. $200 buys a lot of pony rides at the fair!
That said, as a “cool aunt” I would totally buy something like this if I had a nibling in the right age range.
Anonymous
Please take my child to ride a real pony instead and do not send this thing to my house! Signed, your sister or SIL.
pugsnbourbon
Never fear – the big toys live at grandma and grandpa’s :)
Anonymous
OMG I would have loved that so much as a child. I have no kids or niblings, but how much would my friends hate me if I start sending them random giant ride-on toys for their children?
Anonymous
What is the deal with people who think “I’m available until 12:30” means “you can call me at 12:30”? This happens so often, I feel like I’m in the Twilight zone.
Anonymous
I wish I knew but it’s a huge pet peeve of mine. My suspicion is they don’t actually read the email and just see the time.
Anon
Some people read it as, “this call can start as late as 12:30.” I adjust for this by cutting the time off a half hour in advance.
Anonymous
If it happens quite often for you, simply start telling people the latest time you can START the call, rather than giving them the time at which it needs to be finished. If you expect a 30-minute conversation, tell people, “I’m available until 12:00p”
AZCPA
I think that when 12:30 is the one specific in the message, that’s what gets stuck and people lose the “until.” I haven’t found a way to make people listen petter, so I just change the time I state and tell them until 12.
Monday
I think this is it–people don’t fully read emails. I notice that when I say something like “I could do any day except Wednesday” they say “Wednesday works! See you then.” You have to only mention dates and times that do work. So “I’m available at 12,” not “I’m available until 12:30.”
Anon
I do the same thing. I think it’s a pretty understandable mistake, honestly.
AnonMom
Perhaps rephrase to make it less vague? “I am currently free starting at 10:00 with a hard stop at 12:30” or “I’m available between 2pm-4pm” makes it a bit harder for the other party to misread.
Undereye Bags
I still have this problem when I say I’m available between 2 pm – 4pm. People inevitably want to book a meeting at 4 pm in that scenario. I think you have to say I’m available between 2 – 3pm if it’s going to be a one-hour meeting.
Anon
Ugh, I’m in my notice period in the process of changing jobs and I got sick. I hate that it probably looks like I’m just trying to get out of work. I hope they know me well enough (I was there a long time) to believe that I’m not just avoiding people. I’m still working from home and just waiting on that negative PCR COVID test. The timing is just terrible.
Anon
I can’t imagine anyone begrudging someone for working from home while sick in the current era.
Anonymous
You already quit why would anyone care
Anonymous
Feel better. Your work will understand. We are still in a pandemic.
Anonymous
Follow-up to the art discussion above. When buying art directly from an artist, is it assumed/expected that you will negotiate the price, or do you just pay the asking price?
anon
I don’t negotiate with artists as I want then to make a living ans continue making art and not have to have side jobs. If their art is too expensive for me, I find someone else’s art that is in my price range.
Anon
In fine arts, the culture is to pay the asking price and not negotiate.
No Problem
I think this is hugely dependent on context and price range. If you’re talking four figure prices, sure, trying to negotiate a 10-15% discount is probably part of the charade. If you’re at a gallery, there is probably some room for negotiation. If you’re at an art show and you’re looking at a $100 piece, just pay the $100. I got a discount once from an artist in her gallery when she could see how interested I was in the piece (mid three figures), and she offered me a 15% discount without me asking (I would guess she priced her art to allow for that).
Jules
I agree with all of this. My most recent purchase was a large art quilt that an artist I know – friendly acquaintance more than friend – made. It had been hung in a local coffee shop that also functions as a gallery, and didn’t sell. She sold it to me directly and gave a modest discount for not paying any commission to shop. I definitely would not have asked her for a discount; this is a large and beautiful work that must have taken an insane number of hours to complete, and the high three figures price probably doesn’t begin to even cover her time.
I have a good friend with an incredible art collection. When she sees something she really loves that is not in het budget at the time, and if the artist is local, she asks for a payment plan. She pays the artist over six months, or a year, or whatever, and gets the piece when it’s all paid for. I have not tried this but think it’s a gret idea.
Anon
If I’m buying from the gallery, I will sometimes ask if there’s any flexibility on the price. That’s because gallery markups can be considerable, just depending on the gallery, and I expect that if there’s a discount that comes out of the gallery’s cut. If I am buying from the artist, I never ask. I feel like it’s insulting to imply their work is not worth what they’re asking for it.
shorts seeker
I’m looking for some pull-on shorts that don’t look like activewear/loungewear or frumpy and have maybe like a 5″ inseam. Something like olive green, gray, or tan/khaki. Pockets would be nice but aren’t mandatory. :) Don’t want to spend more than $40ish. Any suggestions? Just something to wear with T-shirts, mostly.
Anon
I just got some at J Crew Factory. They are still a bit on the casual side. Walmart also had some in a golf style. So, just above the knee but fitted. Mine did not wash well but I likely didn’t follow directions. I’m sure I can steam/iron out the issues.
Aunt Jamesina
Earlier this summer I got 5 inch inseam chino shorts from Banana Republic factory that are a nice, polished cotton, although it looks like they’re only available in a few sizes now. I also have the 5 inch stretch chino shorts from J.Crew (mine are from a few years ago) and they’ve held up really well.
Anon
Chino shorts (these stretch, so size down if between sizes): https://www.belk.com/p/crown-ivy-womens-5-inch-shorts-/180388572622SPR000002.html
Faaaaave wear every day, 5 months out of the year: https://www.columbia.com/p/womens-sandy-river-shorts-AL4573.html (check around for different colors)
Anon
Costco seems to have a number of neutral shorts that fit this description.
https://www.costco.com/womens-shorts.html
just a potato
I like my job. I don’t mind -to- like my coworkers for the most part.
I’m ready to rage-quit and drown 3 of them right now.
—
I’m honestly over-qualified and under-utilized, but I need the work. I just got promoted a few months ago, after a year, because they were desperate, and I feel like I need to stay the balance of another year but mein gott. There’s a BigPerson who everyone’s a little afraid of, who has a lot going on and can’t keep it all straight. Whereas I have my part of the department’s work-manual/needs memorized, including theirs. So did anyone ask me about it before they made changes that were wrong? NOPE. So is there now an issue? YEP. Are people sending biotchy emails like it’s my fault? ALSO YEP. Am I tired of the attitude? RIGHT AGAIN.