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We haven't talked about professional watches for women in far too long — what are your favorites right now? This Deco watch by Michele comes in a million iterations at Nordstrom, all well-reviewed — the silver version pictured (watchface only) is $690; there are more bedazzled versions and larger versions, with prices up to $1,995. I like the fact that you can interchange the straps — of course I've pictured the crackly purple strap, but a stainless steel strap or simple black strap might be better for, say, a first day at work, but a purple strap like the one pictured can be a fun way to mix it up. (If you can find it, a strap that is close to a nude-for-you is a very chic look — this pink or perhaps this rose gold looks like the closest I could get.) The silver watchface is $695 at Nordstrom. MICHELE ‘Deco 16' Diamond Dial Watch Case, 29mm x 31mm
(L-all)
Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Anon
Looking for recommendations for warm, functional, and (hopefully) attractive active-snow clothing. I am a transplant to a chilly, snowy climate and my LO is already highly anticipating winter, snow, and fun outside. I basically need snow pants, snow boots, and probably some layers to keep warm. I have a decent coat. I will spend $ for good stuff that will last some seasons but am also hoping to not break the bank. If I wait until Thanksgiving to buy, do you think these kind of items will be on sale? Also, I would love any and all recommendations for the items I’m looking for. Thank you.
Veronica Mars
Get a pair of LL Bean boots! They’re perfect for pretty much any cold weather. If you’re in the Arctic, then you can also get them with shearling lining. Otherwise, follow their sizing recommendations for thick socks and buy yourself some nice wool ones (and a liner).
Veronica Mars
Oh, also, I think Barbour make the best coats. Make sure to size up and get one with space for a liner to keep you warm.
BB
I LOVE LOVE LOVE my ArcTeryx insulated jacket. They use a synthetic down and you can get ones that are wind and waterproof. You will quickly find that windproof is pretty important in terms of keeping you warm. They are not “formal” looking, but are very attractive activewear. I have one that I bought 6 years ago and it’s still going strong. I expect it to last at least another 5 seasons if not more. They are pricey but well worth the cost to be toasty and dry for many winters.
BB
Okay, I clearly have reading issues because I realize now that you said you already have a coat :)
In that case, Merino wool baselayers are very useful under coats in the winter, and they will keep you insulated even if you get wet. My favorite are probably Icebreaker and Ibex.
Anonymous
I’d get an Under Armour top and leggings, and look at ski pants – you can get them at places like Dicks and EMS, but if you’re likely to stay the same size for a while, it’s worth getting a niceish pair that doesn’t make you look like the abominable snowman. That should do with a decent down jacket.
Diana Barry
I have men’s snow pants from Patagonia outlet that I got maybe 10-15 years ago and they are still FABULOUS.
Anonymous
Patagonia is my go-to. Their stuff is well-made, classic (in that it won’t look stupid in 3 seasons), and they’ll repair most wear and tear stuff for free.
Brokentoe
As a religious early morning dog walker in Minnesota, I LOVE the Columbia Omni-Heat snow pants I received for Christmas a few years ago. They are so warm, very thin and are literally one of my favorite presents of all time. Cannot say enough good things about them.
APC
I got overall snowpants so that when i fall down in the snow (inevitable), the snow doesn’t get in between my pants/coat. Highly recommend an overall style.
Also whatever boots you get make sure they are waterproof, not water resistant, and you can trudge through anything!
Lobbyist
Check out Sierra Trading Post!
Anonymous
Athleta! Great place for warm (and cute) pants and lots of sizes for petites/talls/etc. They also have great ski pants (be patient…they often don’t make the catalogs until winter vs. when you are planning ahead in the fall). We have a weekend home in the mountains in Colorado that we frequent and I love Athleta fleece lined leggings for outdoor activities (not digging in the snow, but cross country skiing, wearing under dresses when out and about, etc.). Also, Smart Wool socks. Nordstorm Rack sometimes has fantastic deals on them. Under Armour cold gear tops and pants. Last forever.
Anon OP
Thanks everyone for the great recommendations. Exactly what I was looking for.
Anonymous
I know you didn’t ask but as a former transplant to Chicago, I can’t overemphasize the importance of good base layers. A solid coat means nothing without good base layers, and barring truly terribly blizzard conditions you can get by with a mediocre coat if your base layers are good enough! I highly recommend Uniqlo’s heattech and extra warm heattech leggings and long sleeve tees. They’re thin enough to be invisible under most winter clothing but make a huge difference when you’re outdoors. I also recommend buying base layers that are skintight so that the air can’t seep in. Also, I have a pair of cashmere/wool blend leggings from LL Bean that I layer with Uniqlo’s extra warm heattech leggings when it’s below zero degrees Fahrenheit in Chicago. Finally, never underestimate how useful a good pair of knee high leather riding boots can be (waterproofed of course) when temperatures are freezing and your coat is only knee-length or calf-length. Hope this helps!
Mountain Girl
I’m reposting from the earlier thread since I think I was late to the party. Is a navy/green tartan plaid skirt too costume for anything other than St. Pat’s Day? I have a plaid pencil skirt that fits great and is very professional in every way but this skirt just seems to scream when I wear it. I’d be interested in your thoughts.
Anon
I replied on the other thread. I have a wool pencil skirt in the Black Watch pattern that I wear a lot around Christmas. I pair it with a black sweater, black tights, and suede heels. It feels very preppy/Kate Middleton to me.
Anon
I’ll add that I mainly wear it to church and social functions. It feels too…something…for the office.
anon
See, I am in New England (law firm) and I would totally wear that outfit to my business casual office. Maybe not if I were meeting with a client or something, but it sounds fine for a day when I am sitting at desk most of the day.
Aaaaaaa
I have a Black Watch blazer (J.Crew) that I regularly pair with a black wool dress and black knee high boots for my business casual workplace in cold weather (south eastern US).
Anonymous
I don’t think so, but if you don’t feel like you will wear it because it is– get rid of it.
AnonyWest
How about a button front cotton or chambray shirt, one of the more casual styles with a pocket or roll up tab sleeves, non-prissy pumps like Frye or Rockport, and silver jewelry (my David Yurman reads well with Western looks without looking costume-y). Or on the weekend, a turtleneck sweater and suede booties (Jack Rogers?). That would kill the preppy vibe you would get if you paired it with a Brooks Brothers shirt and more delicate shoes.
Sus
If you love it there’s always a way to wear it.
I would pair it with something in an contrasting color, like a pink. Or I would choose the least dominant color in the plaid and use that as your top or sweater. Don’t go costumey with your outfit and it won’t read costume.
anon
I don’t think so, but it might depend on where you live, your office, and how you style it. In New England it would probably fine, although may stand out a bit (not in bad way). It might read costume-y on the West Coast?
Mountain Girl
I’m not on the west cost but definitely not New England. We are a western mountain city so the preppy/old money vibe isn’t the norm. Western boots and hats seems are much more common. Maybe that’s why it seems off.
Anon
Could you pair it with a denim button-up? If I had one, I thought about doing that with mine. (Btw, is it from the J Crew outlet last year? That’s the one I have.)
Meg Murry
I agree that it’s a very preppy look. I don’t think it’s a bad one, but I personally have started getting rid of all items in my closet that make me feel self conscious about wearing them, or that I pull out and then put away again because I can’t figure out how to style them. Chances are you look fine (maybe even great!) when you wear it, but if you don’t love it, cut your losses and move on (or save it for St. Paddy’s day if you have room in your closet).
ClassPass DC
Does ClassPass ever do new member promotions? I want to sign up but it seems like these services usually do a promo for new members.
AttiredAttorney
The promos have gotten fewer and further between, and they are almost always based on referral from a current member, not just a new sign up promotion. The current one is a referral special form a current member where you both get $10 off for a month. They used to be $50+ referral bonuses, but I have’t seen those in some time.
Anonymous
Yes, but it depends on the city. However, you can sign up with a different city and use it anywhere. Or just ask them via email.
Kdlaf
I agree with the poster above, I haven’t seen the $50 referral bonuses in a while. So youre likely going to have to pay full price from the get go. I have classpass now in the DC area and love it! Its an amazing deal compared to pay 150-200 per month at one gym for a membership and it forces me to stay in shape while trying out the plethora of classes/studios near me.
Besides, if you dont like it you can always cancel your membership at anytime I believe. Its definitely worth a try
roses
I got a flyer in the mail for 2 weeks free, and I think when I registered on the site they had a reduced price for the first month. (I haven’t actually used it, though).
CHS
I got an amazing deal last spring (not in NYC) – three months for $150 (so $50/month), which came a few months after they were offering a two months for $100, I think in the winter. I have no idea if they’re still offering it, but if you can sign up for the emails and then sit for awhile you might be able to wait them out. I’m a huge fan of Classpass – completely changed my perception of working out, and I think the interface is excellent.
Anonymous
Agree with signing up and then waiting as long as you’re comfortable. When I signed up for e-mails, they presented it as an exclusive “waiting list” where you’d get an invite to sign up (which came 24 hours after signing up for emails, on the dot). The invite claimed it expired after 48 hours, but then magically it was extended for 24, and again, and then after a while they dropped all pretense of a cutoff. I didn’t wait it out too long, but I did end up registering my account with a different e-mail than the one I’d entered on the “waiting list” page, so my original e-mail continued to get sign-up promotions (I guess they didn’t bother to detect when someone had clicked on a link in an e-mail and joined through it). So, months later I continued to see all the sign up promos and I’d say the “BOGO” (second month free after one full paid month) and the $50 credit (in your second month) if referred by a friend were the best I saw.
Constant Reader
I just emailed them and asked for a trial pass. I am in Chicago and they granted me a 2 week trial for free (this was last month). Granted, they did end up (mistakenly!) charging my credit card $99 even though I cancelled the trial within the proper window but they refunded the money back to my cc.
Anonymous
They had a lot in the spring (possibly after the post-New Year’s fitness slump) but like the others said, I haven’t seen any lately. In my city, the monthly fee was $79 and raised to $95 last month, with existing members grandfathered in at $79 through September, so the last “promo” I saw was for new members to sign up and be considered grandfathered to get that same $79 through September.
Anonymous
What’s the most money you’ve ever spent on a single item of clothing?
Veronica Mars
Clothing only–not counting accessories, probably ~$200 each for my Barbour coats (one was $180 and the other was a little more). Definitely worth every penny! (Although the jury’s still out on the second coat, as I bought it on super clearance from Orvis–originally $600!–and I’ll return it if it doesn’t work for me or my climate)
Boring but warm and dry
$529 and it is worth every penny.
http://www.patagonia.com/us/product/womens-tres-3-in-1-parka?p=28407-0
Daydreamer
I have the exact same answer for my most expensive item! I love it so much!
But I’m in Canada, so it was around $650 with taxes for me…
Em
oh my, my most expensive clothing item as well, and I love it!
DisenchantedinDC
Ugh, I had the opportunity to shop at Patagonia last fall for a jacket and got a different one – I love it and took it to Iceland and it’s nice-enough looking I wear it to trek to my government campus worksite in the winter, but I kind of wish I had gotten this one, instead! The guys in my group all got the men’s version. Major regret.
(We had a 40% off shopping pass from a friend who worked there. I know, I know!)
anon
$275, I believe, on a dress, and that on sale. I think I felt pressured into it by a Nordstrom personal shopper (who I otherwise loved). It is a nice dress, but I probably wouldn’t have chosen it or spent this much on it if left to my own devices. I am usually more in the $150 or less range for dresses.
Susie
I think just over $200, but I still get a little queasy over $150 for a single item. Don’t ask me what I spend on my horse’s things though!
Anonymous
Almost $1,000 splurge on a BOSS suit in a gorgeous color 2 1/2 years ago and it’s my go-to suit for important events. Boyfriend is an enabler and talked me into it; I almost hyperventilated after I made the purchase. But I have no debt and have never regretted the purchase since.
Shopaholic
I think I’m the highest so far at around $500. I have a bunch of jackets/dresses in the $300-450 range because I decided to stop buying BR/Jcrew and start buying quality.
I think it’s worked out overall though because my clothes look better and I stopped buying so many.
Anonymous
I’m in this camp too. The $500 item was a winter coat, $400 is probably the highest on a dress. I haven’t had to wear a suit jacket in years, so I’m still holding onto the J. Crew ones from the good days.
Anon for this....
After college, master’s degree, MD, PhD, internship, residency….. can you imagine the years of constant studying, long hours, and low pay…. I moved back to my home town to take care of my disabled parents and start my first position earning more than mininum wage. I needed a real winter coat, after living in mild climates for two decades.
I went to Nordstrom’s. I went straight to the coat of my dreams, that I had always wanted. A beautiful, long shearling BlueDuck coat. I believe it cost at least $2500. I had a gift certificate paying for about $500 of it, and I paid for the rest.
I have been wearing it for the past 8 years, and will continue to wear it for the rest of my life.
Otherwise, I am very frugal, and never buy luxury items.
txatty
Okay, I’ll be the voice of splurging. On clothing, probably either a Burberry trench (I think around $2300) or an Armani skirt suit (I think for both pieces it was around $2500). Both are workhorses, although I don’t wear either as often as I’d expected.
cbackson
$2700, on a Ferragamo bag.
Anonymous
$495 on my jimmy choo black patent heels.
$200ish on various silk tops and jeans.
$2250 on my LV black epi leather bag
Little Red
Last fall, I bought a custom-made Katherine Hooker coat at one of her trunk shows and it cost me around $1600. It’s the long Contrast Coat style in a red wool/cashmere blend with dark gray velvet trim. It fits like a dream, even over layers like a blazer, and I get tons of compliments when I wear it so no regrets.
Sigh
How do you find counseling for eating disorders? How has it worked for you? I’ve been occasionally bulimic for 5 years now and I’ve realized I’m not as in control of it as I thought I was. I’m healthy, no immediate danger – I’m 5’7, 150 lbs, and I do it in phases where I feel pressure I can’t control. (It started in law school, was at its absolute worst during the bar where I’d cry in the grocery store fighting with myself over what foods to buy, and I’m in the middle of moving cross-country and have put on 10 lbs that I’m angry at myself for.)
I understand proper nutrition, and I feel amazing emotionally and physically when I eat properly, but I love sweets so much sometimes I fantasize about them. It’s not about 2 cookies for me, it’s about the entire package. I need to get this under control.
Moving to D.C. if anyone has specific recs. Is this covered by insurance?
Susie
I did it through my university’s health center, but it was not effective because I was not ready for it. I knew the right things to say to the counselor. I went through phases throughout my 20s, I’d be good for months then relapse. In all honestly the thing that had the biggest impact on my bulimia was a trip to the dentist which revealed how much damage I had done to my teeth.
Sigh
I saw damage the last time I went to the dentist that scared me, but the assistant was fresh out of school and I don’t think picked up on it. This week (as it’s reoccurred for the first time in a while) I started doing a baking soda rinse. I thought, “Holy sh1t!! How far have you let this go that this is what you’re doing?!” But I can’t quite stop myself…
Anonymous
Wait, is baking soda supposed to be OK? I understand it to be badly destructive to teeth on its own
Anonymous
I think it helps to neutralize the stomach acid residing in your mouth after vomiting, so reduces the damage to teeth from that acid. I’ve seen it recommended for women suffering from severe morning sickness. I wouldn’t think it will totally protect from the damage of more frequent vomiting, though I’m sure OP already knows this.
No recs for DC, but hugs OP. I hope you’re able to find the support you’re looking for to get back to rocking your awesome self.
Susie
Mine was horrible, my dentist took a series of pictures and made me look through a slide show pointing out the damage. I was literally crying by the end. A few thousand dollars, a root canal and crown later I learned my lesson. I still struggle occasionally but wanting to protect what’s left of my teeth enamel is a good motivator.
Sigh
Ok, that’s terrifying. I get very squicky about surgery.
Semi-nonymous
No specific advise as to counselors, but I also have/had disordered eating issues, and the biggest thing I’ve found is that in my case, the disordered eating isn’t the root cause but rather a symptom I get when I feel out of control – the way some people with anxiety have panic attacks or can’t stop crying – I start counting calories or obsessing about weight.
For me, what helped more than anything was to develop healthy coping mechanisms for stress and anxiety. The food issues are always there, to some extent – but when I’m otherwise coping ok, I can get past them. When I’m in a downward spiral, they are ruling my life. So my key is to keep myself from getting into that spiral, or recognizing it so I can pull out before too late.
Do you have an EAP? Call that. This may be a good case for CBT (cognitive behavioral therapy), so you can learn to separate your feelings about food from your anxiety. Otherwise, go to your insurance provider, find a list of psychologists and call each one and ask if they do counselling for eating disorders and anxiety.
Veronica Mars
If it’ll be covered by insurance–call your insurance company and ask about your behavioral health deductible (if there is one). Also ask if you have an out of pocket maximum. Providers of behavioral health (for any issue) often opt out of insurance networks so you will have to do some hunting to find one in your network (and unfortunately, many of the best decide to be out of network altogether). Also ask about inpatient versus outpatient coverage. You may not be considering inpatient programs right now, but it’s good to know for future reference (and if it’s actually affordable, it may be a good treatment option). If you decide to go with an out of network provider, ask about cash discounts and/or sliding scale. You can also submit a paper claim to your insurance company (another option). Using a provider that has your (or a) religious affiliation is often cheaper (if you ask). I would advise you to google/use Psychiatry today and look for someone who specializes in eating disorders.
Anon for this....
My friends who had the best results belonged to support groups that met regularly.
One person with a severe eating disorder I know belongs to a support group that started online and they have “conference” calls of sorts for their meetings. At one time she met with them at least an hour every day!! When she is doing well, she meets less.
Agree with others that it is essential to try to get to the root of the cause.
My acquaintances with anorexia have suffered much more, and seem prone to relapses regularly. For some reason, they never accept counseling, which the need terribly.
For myself, I just cannot keep danger foods in the house or binging is a risk.
cbackson
Oh, honey. First off, it is so important and such a big deal that you are at the point that you can recognize that you need help. My personal opinion on this is that there really isn’t such a thing as an eating disorder that’s under control – eating disorders are always in control of you. Even if it’s only something that you do when you’re under pressure, that’s not something you should have to live with. You can – you absolutely can – have a life in which you manage those pressures without doing something that hurts you.
I’ll spare you my full story, but I am fully recovered after 12+ years of anorexia and purging disorders. I’ve been fully recovered for over a decade. I never thought I would be here – the change in behavior is less of a big deal than the change in how I think about myself, my body, and food. I’m in charge. My eating disorder isn’t in charge of me.
Treatment is critical. Success rates are poorer for anorexics, but bulimics who receive treatment have a really high recovery rate – I think it’s 80% or more. Right now, the gold standard is cognitive behavioral therapy, especially for bulimia and purging disorders. It was not common when I was in treatment, so I didn’t have it for my anorexia but I did have it later for anxiety and honestly, it is something close to a miracle. I also took antidepressants during part of my treatment, because my depression was so severe that I had trouble engaging with therapy. In terms of finding treatment, you’re more likely to have insurance coverage if you treated by a psychologist or psychiatrist; more of them seem to participate in insurance plans. I second calling your EAP if your work has one; a general practitioner can also help you. Do NOT be afraid to try more than one therapist/doctor until you find one that works for you.
I promise you – you do not have to live this way. Even if it’s only once in a while, that’s too often. You *can* be free of this. You *can* have a life without this. Some of the first people to treat me thought my case was so intractable that they basically wrote me off (I developed anorexia at age 9). I am living proof that there absolutely is a life without your eating disorder, no matter how long you’ve had it. Please know that there is a life on the other side of this.
If you want to talk or have questions about how to access treatment or what the experience is like or anything, feel absolutely free to email me at my name at the gmail. I am absolutely passionate about ending the silence around eating disorders. Treatment works, and we need to help people get it. I know I don’t know you, but I care and I want to help.
Not that I know ...
Posting this Friday morning, so I hope you check back. The Eating Disorder Clinic at Sheppard Pratt in Baltimore is very highly regarded. Baltimore might be a little far to travel from DC for treatment depending on your own tolerance for traffic, but a call to them might help you find a counselor in DC proper.
anon
$300 for a BB blazer (on sale)
bridget
I wear my watch every day: Citizens with both gold and silver tones, and, yes, it’s sparkly. I also have a small gold Sieko that my parents bought me for high school graduation.
moss
I got my Seiko chronograph back from the repair shop & wear it every day.
Sydney Bristow
I had a job interview today and I feel like it went well. I’ve been doing temporary document review work and had sort of resigned myself to doing so for the foreseeable future but I jumped at an opening for a permanent job. I’m nervous enough since I’ve been so out of practice with the job hunting thing but my friends and family just keep saying that I’m absolutely going to get it. It is like a repeat of everyone saying that of course I’d pass the bar, when that is totally not a given. It is driving me crazy! I’m hopeful but don’t want to get my hopes up too high because you really never know. Just venting, but wouldn’t mind advice on how to deal with this if anyone has any.
Anon
I’ve had bouts of un- and underemployment that always send me into a tailspin of despair. I’ve learned through unpleasant experience 1) not to jump on the first thing that comes along if it doesn’t feel right and 2) not getting a job means the perfect one may be just around the corner. Keep up hope! Fingers crossed for you.
Sydney Bristow
Thank you! I’ve been doing the temp stuff for years so I’m used to it and the permanent job is at a firm that I really like working for as a temp so it definitely feels right. I have rejected something that didn’t feel right in the past and that was definitely the right thing to do so that is great advice. Thanks!
Anon
If possible, stop talking to non-lawyers about the field! Although it is not their fault, they have no idea what it is like to study for the bar or look for a job in this legal market. They will never understand unless they have gone through it or something similar. Those outside the legal field really just don’t understand how tough everything is and that will not change. At least you are doing something and earning an income doing document review and you probably see tons of other lawyers in your situation. The legal market is still terrible in most places so try not to take it personally. My advice is to not put all your eggs in one basket. Do not focus so much on one job application/interview. If you want to return to practice, network, network, network and then network some more. I was laid off and am now doing per diem work for two attorneys and I didn’t apply for these positions. Both want to hire me full time eventually. Best of luck and try to remain positive!
bridget
No advice, but I understand the frustration. I think it’s easier, psychologically, to look at these things like, “Eh, didn’t happen – but it doesn’t happen for lots of motivated, smart people. Time to try again. Life happens.” Whereas the whole “Of COURSE YOU’RE GOING TO SUCCEED!!!1111” thing kind of sounds like, “Yeah, you’re a complete failure if you don’t, and if you do, it’s sort of like passing kindergarten – such a given that it’s not really cause for celebration.”
I had the same problem – in fact, my parents sometimes asked me if I had a job at the end of *informational interviews* – so I just… stopped telling people when I was interviewing. It was amazing how much less stress I took into interviews when I didn’t feel like the whole thing had to be dissected afterward.
My only recommendation for the present problem: your family is probably doing this because they believe in you, and when you are not all OF COURSE THIS WILL WORK OUT!!!!111!, they think you’re dumping on yourself. Maybe “I know you’re saying this because you love me and believe in me, but you’re just stressing me out more. Every single other person who applied for this job is a college graduate, was accepted into law school, graduated, passed the bar, and has some work experience. It’s not that I think I’m not worth believing in – it’s that every other candidate they interviewed is also worth believing in.”
There’s also the baseball analogy. David Ortiz strikes out on a not-irregular basis. He’s a MVP of a World-Series winning team, but he strikes out… because even MVPs strike out in the major league.
Coach Laura
Tom Petty: “The waiting is the hardest part.” No other advice but sending you good thoughts.
Senior Attorney
No advice, but I totally know how you feel. I’ve talked about this before, but some years ago I was up for my dream job, and everybody was all, “Oh, it’s a lock, of course you’ll get it,” when the reality was that it was far from a sure thing and in fact I ended up not getting it (and being absolutely devastated, in part because all my family and friends had been so sure I would get it).
I’d suggest saying “I know you mean to be encouraging, but honestly there are a lot of variables here and you saying that just makes me more nervous!”
Or be more lighthearted and say “You’re not allowed to say that! Don’t want to jinx it!” And repeat as needed. Which in hindsight is I guess maybe the best way to handle it.
Senior Attorney
Okay so I guess I did have advice after all. Heh.
Sydney Bristow
Thanks all! My husband said it again tonight and I said, “I need you to stop saying that. Say you have your fingers crossed or something instead.” He agreed although I’m not sure he fully understands. He’s onboard with the new script though!
Paternalism
I generally love my boss. Small firm. We are like family. But sometimes, I just can’t.
Yesterday conversation – It would be great if you started bringing in more business.
Today conversation – me – Local business person asked to meet me at local coffee shop next week because he is interested in referring me clients in x practice area. He got my name from y.
Male boss – what? Why does he want to meet you at a coffee shop? That’s weird. You don’t know him. This is a first meeting. He should come here. You’re a woman.
Me – It will be fine. It’s a public place. And he also offered to come here but told me where his office was and let me suggest a convenient place for us to meet. (Leaving out the fact that I worked a job where I was professionally trained to physically defend myself, and did on a regular basis and that boss has likely never been in a physical fight in his life.)
And this is why it is harder for women to bring in business then men.
Anon
Lolz. I’m in politics. Half our business is conducted in coffee shops with quasi-strangers.
Anonymous
At least local business person’s wife “allows” him to go on professional lunches/coffee meetings. In my city, it’s pretty common for the wives to have a policy barring their husband from going on any networking meeting with a female unless there is another male to “chaperone.” (and it’s not just SAHWs–one colleague’s wife who had this policy was a prosecutor!)
anon
what city is this!? Also, that just makes the wives look like they don’t trust their husbands, and it makes the husbands look like slimeballs their wives can’t trust.
Anonymous
Hint, it’s a place with a lot of big hair…
And yeah, the logic is flawed all around. It says “my husband is so amazing that these desperate, heathen single women are going to try to mount him right there next to the half and half counter.” Yep. That’s definitely right. Which is why there were about 12,000 *possibly* active female accounts on Ashley Madison and at least 20 million active male accounts. Those desperate single women lusting after married men, yo.
Paternalism
Yup, I know several people in the Southern Baptist religion who subscribe to this philosophy, basing it on religious “requirements.”
lucy stone
Some of that in the Midwest as well. I have lunch with other attorneys occasionally and my (gov’t) coworkers will ask if my husband knows I ate lunch with so and so. Yes, he does, and no, he doesn’t care. Sheesh.
Ellen
Yay! I realy don’t understand the doubel standard. If a man meet’s a woman for a busness lunch, the man think’s the woman is loose and will sleep with him. The women is mereley trying to get the busness that is demanded by her manageing partner. Even in NYC, the manageing partner does NOT let me go out alone b/c he know’s that the men will want to hit on me and even tho they will NOT act on it, their LIBIDO’s will be revved up if I am there alone with them b/c I am VERY pretty and they will strut around thinkeing that all the men are jelous of them when they see ME with them. Why is all of this hapening? B/c of the doubel standard. I wish men would just give us busness without trying to think that we are interested in having sex with them. FOOEY!
anon
I cannot even begin to imagine that. Wow.
Anon
I wrote here few months back about my ex-manager, current mentors wife had serious issues because we were going for a walk/lunch once a week which he did with other team members too (who were all male). My ex-manager is 25 years older than me and I used to go for walk/lunch years before he met his wife !!!
AN
Is this for real? No one in Asia would have an issue with this. I have worked in India, Singapore, HK and never heard this before!
anon
It’s also why it’s hard for men to understand that they’re perpetuating the problem of women not being able to rise up as easily. He’s well intentioned, so it’s probably hard for him to understand that what he’s doing is actually holding you back and doing you a disservice. And it’s systematically like that fore every female employee.
Paternalism
Yup. He just judged this guy as weird. Let’s say on the golf course this weekend he tells his buddies, local business dude wants to meet female associate at coffee shop. That’s weird right? She didn’t think it was weird.” Buddies might say “no, man that’s business” but next time they go to invite a business woman for coffee they might pause and think “lawyer partner would think this is weird. Maybe others think this is weird. I don’t want to be that weird guy. I won’t do it.”
lost academic
I’ve been in an interview process with a consulting firm for weeks now and the recruiter emailed me today to say there was an offer and wanted to schedule time tomorrow morning to “present” it. I agreed to a time and said I’d like to see it in writing first. The recruiter replied that their procedure was to present it verbally first. I feel very strange and uncomfortable about this order – to me, a “real” offer comes in writing first. Can anyone comment on this? I don’t like being put on the spot in this way, though I think my current plan must be to listen to everything she tells me, write it down/record it, and get back to them on Monday – or at least, not right on that call.
Anon
They’ll probably send you a hard copy immediately after. Just stay non-committal over the phone. Thank them for the offer and tell them you’ll be in touch after you have a chance to look over everything.
They probably want to do it verbally for a chance to explain how valuable (or convince you of that lol) their benefits or compensation package is.
Anonymous
I think it’s normal to get the offer over the phone, then get a letter after.
Anonymous
They might not want to make it too convenient for you to forward it around via email, but will give you a copy for yourself (which you could of course scan and email if you like).
NYC tech
Agreed – I doubt they will expect an answer immediately. They just want to use the “personal touch” and recruit you. Especially if this is an established firm. All of my recent job offers (including in consulting) have come over the phone or in person first, followed up with a hard copy with details about benefits etc. This sounds perfectly normal.
Anonymous
This is pretty standard and they should follow up with the written offer shortly thereafter. The goal is to walk you through everything and give you a chance to clarify anything.
They will usually not expect a acceptance on the phone and they should let you know the deadline to accept.
lost academic
OK – thanks, everyone, I needed to get out of my head a little bit and I didn’t want to appear overly finicky or suspicious. I guess I was also worried I might be pressured to respond immediately and I wanted to tamp down my tendency to give away the store.
Reconnecting advice?
I just heard that a friend of mine, who was one of my best friends in college, is going through an incredibly nasty divorce (his wife has been sleeping with HIS boss for months! nasty financial battle, etc). A mutual friend of ours was in town and had dinner with him, and he shared the news somewhat confidentially–the whole thing is very messy and incredibly personal (as these things are). Mutual friend says he’s pretty upbeat given the circumstances.
He and I haven’t been in touch much in the past few years, but we were one point very close– in each others weddings, etc. and are now at the point where it’s a facebook post on our birthday’s and a christmas card. I’m trying to walk a line between wanting to reach out to my previously very close friend, and doing more harm than good (dude is not going to want to spent hours yakking on the phone, and has plenty of other friends in his current city/state). Any ideas or thoughts on how to approach?
For now, my best thought has been to shoot him a note with some actionable stuff: “Talked to [friend] and he gave me a quick idea of what’s been going on with you lately. I’d love to come visit for a weekend (or day) and take you out for drinks so we can catch up.” At this point, I think he’s probably just trying to figure out how to let his network know what’s going on without issuing a public announcement…
Bonnie
If the mutual friend shared confidentially, I would not out them like you plan to do.
Senior Attorney
I would have loved to have a formerly-close friend reach out like this when I was going through my recent divorce. I say do it!
Jules
Same here (I’m currently in the beginnings of the divorce process; it’s amicable — mostly — with no infidelity allegations or big battles but still tough) and would appreciate the support, or just the good wishes.
However, I would not reveal that you know a lot of the gory details that the other friend received in confidence. Maybe say: “I talked to mutual friend and he said you’re going through a rough time.” Then your friend can decide how much to share.
MJ
I would never, ever say I heard this elsewhere. If you want to genuinely connect, drop him a note and say, “We haven’t spoken in ages, let’s grab drinks.” [No more.] No need to bring up that you’re reaching out for a specific reason.
Carrie...
+1
This.
OP
I’m just not a bull$hitter. Neither is he. We haven’t chatted in like 4 years and we both recently had drinks with our mutual friend (facebook evidence!). This wasn’t a “i’m telling you this secret so don’t spill it”– I mean, eventually this news will spread and it’s already several months old (she moved out, and to another town…).
As a comparison– I had a miscarriage pretty far along in my pregnancy a few years ago (after it was pretty publically known I was pregnant). My local friends knew about it because it came up over dinner, but my formerly-close-n0w-facebook-only-now friends did not, but they DID know I was pregnant. Like with office politics, I just made sure someone far more chatty and good about staying connected than I was knew and pretty soon my extended network knew/reached out as appropriate.
I’m not trying to downplay this, I just am more of the mindset that it’s silly to dance around things (“oh heyyyyy haven’t heard from you in half a decade. How’s the marriage? oh WHAT? you are separated??? I had no idea! What timing!” is just as bad as “so hey how’ve you been? WHAT? you’re not pregnant anymore? Sorry to hear that. I had no idea!” ), especially when we were once really, really close friends.
But I sometimes can miss the mark on these things, which is why I posted the question. I really appreciate the responses.
OP
ETA- i would obviously not mention the gory details were part of the discussion. Just that “Bob told me you & suzy were separating; that really sucks. Let’s grab drinks and catch up.”