Overachieving Women Who Drink Too Much
We've been curious about the story on Gothamist, “Overachieving Women Will Drink You Under the Table,” in part because so many of you “liked” the story once we posted it to Facebook (and amazingly, not one of the six is one of our drinking buddies!)
Looking more closely at the reports from the Telegraph, the study notes that “The more educated women are, the more likely they are to drink alcohol on most days and to report having problems due to their drinking patterns . . . . The better-educated appear to be the ones who engage the most in problematic patterns of alcohol consumption.”
We have a few thoughts on this, which we'll try to put in a cohesive order, but we're primarily curious to hear from you: 1) Do you drink to excess? 2) Why do you think that is? 3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night? (3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer? Fine, and 3c: what do you toast to?) 4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much?
What have you done about it? (For right now, let's just talk about alcohol, although we suspect a thread on prescription drugs might also be in order.)
My Thoughts on Overachieving Women Who Drink Too Much
First, on drinking during one's downtime (weekends, evenings, vacations, whatever): We've been mulling it over in our heads since reading the article, in large part because — why yes! — this author (and most of her overachieving friends, particularly those from law school) have been known to overindulge here or there during personal time. Is it because we are stressed out from our day jobs and need help unwinding? Is it because we drink to “reward” ourselves for all of our hard work during the week?
As one of our commenters on the Friday post wondered, is it a chicken and egg syndrome — are women who are more likely to overindulge also more likely to become overachievers? Is there a competitive aspect to drinking — if we are competitive people, are we more likely to drink competitively as well? How much does money play into it?
For example: if you go to nicer bars, a) there are often more options for specialized cocktails (as seen by the mixology craze in NYC), and b) if you are served better liquor, there are less repercussions — for example, a cheap gold-colored tequila will presumably leave you with a much worse hangover than if you're drinking a quality clear-colored tequila, like Patron Silver — which in turn means that, without the hangover to “teach” you not to drink so much, you continue to do it.
(We suspect the actual “answer” to this phenomenon is probably a very unsexy, sensical one: women who are “overachievers” frequently have children later in life, which means that they have a) more disposable income and b) less real responsibility. (This would also mean that they've never had to take a “break” from drinking, as required by that whole, you know, pregnancy and breastfeeding thing.) This was noted by the authors of the study, as well.)
Second, on drinking at work functions: Obviously, one should not drink heavily drink at work functions.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't drink — in fact, as commenters noted on the Friday post, not drinking often raises more eyebrows than drinking does. (We agree with the commenters: please do not be that person who asks people: why aren't you drinking? Also, ladies who don't drink — any tips or experiences you'd like to share re: not drinking?) Which, we suppose, means that you are best advised to get a glass — of anything — and hold onto it throughout the night. (Or, at the very least, practice a 1:1 rule — one glass of wine/liquor, one glass of water or soda.)
(While we're giving advice: please, please do not post pictures of yourself drunk on Facebook. Do not let your friends post pictures of you drunk. Yesssss, sure, you look adorable and yessss, sure, it's hilarious. Strangely enough, though, that prospective employer or the employer looking to make cuts doesn't think so.)
{related: we rounded up 10 great mocktail recipes}
Finally, on drinking alcohol in the office: I remember being very surprised, years ago, when a former colleague casually admitted to regularly drinking at her office desk, in that “home stretch” from 7pm – quittin' time. I don't think she drank to excess, but still, it really shocked me — perhaps because I had always had a rule against drinking alone, but perhaps because she was so successful and well-regarded at the job. Obviously, this kind of thing happened all the time in the Mad Men era — but does it still happen now? What has your experience been?
What to Do If You're a Woman Who Drinks Too Much
Consider Quitting Drinking
There are a ton of books out there on sobriety right now, particularly for women — we've rounded up a few below.
You can also look into online programs like those from Rachel Hart (Take a Break), Gray Area Drinking, Tired of Thinking about Drinking, or look into sobriety journals like those from Soberish.
What to Drink Instead of Alcohol
And, of course, there are a ton of wonderful seltzers, fake alcohols, and other low- or non-alcoholic additions to help you drink a lot less…
Some of our favorite non-alcoholic drinks and things to add to plain seltzer (we love our Sodastream!) include:
Our Best Tips for Moderating Alcohol Intake
Here are some products to help you with moderation:
Pictured above, some ideas on how to moderate your drinking: Caloric Cuvee, [sold out] but similar) and Wine-Trax; all $9-$19 at Amazon. I've also talked about how much I love the beautiful cocktail glasses from The History Company because they're generally smaller!
Stock image via Stencil (woman in suit). Blue martini glass via Katfry LLC (Kat's wedding cocktail). (Originally pictured: New York City, 17 May 08, originally uploaded to Flickr by flickr4jazz.)
This is interesting. I think the first day of law school ‘thing’ at my school was a keg in the courtyard… and I remember a big ta-do being made because there were several recovering alcoholics in our class who complained and a whole lot of “manage your issues” fighting ensued.
The only lawyers I know that don’t drink are the recovering alcoholics. That’s not say that everyone else drinks heavily, they just do… I remember going back to class with a big plastic cup of beer and a slice of pizzza on so many occasions it isn’t even startling… I also remember lots of beer and wine floating around the firm, especially in the summer.
At my current job, it has been stated that while traveling for business, expensing a glass of wine or beer with or just after a meal is fine, but just one per evening meal.
I don’t drink and sometimes it feels like a professional liability. I don’t like the taste and I don’t like the way it makes me feel. I think I am allergic because if other people got so sick after 1 beer or 2 there is no way they would drink as much as they do. I just say no thanks and drink some non alchoholic drink but sometimes people really are pushy.
1) Yes, I occasionally drink to excess. I am sure there are health department stats about what that means, but to me, it means I finish a drink and think to myself… that last one was a mistake. And, I usually pay for it in the morning.
2) I think that I drink to excess for a few reasons – first, because I enjoy the taste of a number of types of alcoholic beverages. Second, because it tends to relieve my stress. Third, because “all my friends are doing it.” And, as a 3L in a Big 12 town, I can assure you, all my friends really ARE doing it.
3) On a “school night” I drink two glasses of wine if I am at home, making dinner. I also limit myself to two to three beers at a bar if I am meeting friends out. Typically, though, we drink in the mid to late afternoon, and call it a day well before “night” happens. On a weekend, usually one night per week I will drink one drink an hour over the span of about five hours. This ultimately makes me feel horrid the next day, prompting REALLY BAD nutritional decisions – Taco Bell? Yes please. Crab Rangoon? Gimme two orders.
3) I drink strictly wine and beer. Hard alcohol has the effective of a laxative on my system (TMI, I know, but maybe some other ladies have this issue as well..) I love gin and tonic, but just cannot tolerate it. I stick to red wine in the winter and white wine when it’s warm out. Beer at bars, bbqs, casual gatherings and lower end restaurants. At my firm, Friday is the day everyone quits early, gathers around the back of the office and drinks together. It’s always beer or *shudder* scotch. I stick to the beer.
4) There was a period of time during my 1L year, second semester, when I had too much to drink basically 7 days a week. More than four drinks, skipped class to go to the bar, stayed up way too late drinking and felt all around awful. My mom confronted me about my drinking habits once when I had the stomach flu (legit stomach flu…) and I re-examined my priorities and my health. Since my family has a history of alcoholism, I decided to tone it down. Not only that, but lately, when I have spent time drinking with many of my close girlfriends, I have noticed that everyone gets a little more… emotional when they drink. I don’t like that. I like to be in control. I never want to drink too much and say something I cannot take back to someone that’s important to me, or to my life. Tapering off my alcohol consumption around friends, during days when everyone is basically getting hammered has prompted people to call me uptight or no fun, or simply ask “what’s wrong?”… but that’s just my generation.
I think the best advice is to know your limit. Then, subtract one.
1) Do you drink to excess? Rarely, but it has certainly happened.
2) Why do you think that is? My father is an (un-recovered) alcoholic, and
growing up with that made me terrified of turning out like he did. I didn’t start drinking until my junior year of college. I really enjoy drinking now, and I’m afraid if I don’t control myself now, I’ll have to control myself permanently in the future– a life without gin? Too grim to imagine! Plus I’m working full time while going to school full time, so I don’t have time to be hungover.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night? I have either one glass of wine or a gin and tonic almost every night after dinner . Weekdays and weekends are not typically different in terms of drinking amounts. But when I go to a mexican restaurants on the weekend, I’ll split a pitcher of margaritas with 2-3 other people. After a not-so-shining moment several months ago, I self-imposed a 3 drink limit no matter what the occasion.
3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
Tanqueray’s rangpur gin is the sweet nectar of the gin and tonic gods.
3c: what do you toast to? I’m not really a toasting kind of person, but some small triumph.
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it?
Yes I have. However, I decided that I was being overly sensitive and self critical because of my father’s drinking problem, so I decided to trust myself, and stop holding onto the need to be in perfect control at all moments (honestly, I was being irrational). Nothing bad happened, but I stay cautious.
def do a thread on prescription drugs… i suspect this is prevalent and am curious to know whether others have struggled w/ this…
side benefit = pills have no calories
(yes, I know this is sad.)
I find that drinking makes me flirty, so I only drink when I want to turn that on — in other words, very rarely around colleagues. It can also make me tired if it’s been a long day, so that’s another reason not to do it, no one wants to talk with someone half-asleep.
The times I’ve drunken to excess are when I’m around a guy that I like and am nervous/uncomfortable with. Those nights usually don’t end well (ok, not always bad, but not good in the long run).
1) Do you drink to excess? Yes. But not as much anymore.
2) Why do you think that is? Partly the stress relief, partly the social aspect. Partly the fact that it makes me feel young again and being out reminds of college / law school (i.e., happier, less stressful times… sorry if that shocks those students out there to hear).
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night? On a school night, maybe a glass or two of wine with hubs / the co-workers or a beer if it’s a more casual dinner (takeout Chinese or pizza). If it’s a particularly stressful or emotional day, a bourbon on the rocks. On the weekend, it totally depends. When I have an event or am getting together with certain friends, it could be up to a drink an hour or more. When it’s a quiet weekend, no more than a school night or sometimes nothing at all.
3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer? I love and appreciate a good bourbon or red wine. I generally switch to white wine in the summer (or at events where my teeth need to be presentable). Certain foods require certain drinks, such as ‘ritas with Mexican.
3c: what do you toast to? Depends on the night. Nothing at all. Often to work successes or failures. Big news, especially financial news (raises, good days in the market).
4: On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it? I have at different moments, but I definitely am able to go for long periods without it without a problem, so I generally stop worrying. I’ve never had children so have never given it up for more than a few weeks at a time, but think I probably could if called upon. I’m certain if I ever do have kids though everyone will know immediately that I’m preggers when I stop drinking. I already get questioned at work events if I have only water.
1) No, I don’t drink to excess. I may have a glass of wine with dinner, or two on a Friday, a couple of times a week, and I like the occasional cocktail. But I’m not even a one-drink-per-day kind of drinker. Just not a big drinker at all. As for binge drinking, I did that on occasion in college and law school – as did many of us – but haven’t “overindulged” since 2006. I remember the last time I was really, really drunk – it was a crazy fun night, and the memories will last me a lifetime. (Yes, I remember it all, and yes, I was definitely drunk. I just have an awesome memory.)
2) Hmmm, I do like the taste of alcohol, especially wine. I’m actually quite educated about wine – took a class on it in college and read lots of books and articles in the years since, and have done a number of wine tours. I also enjoy cocktails from time to time. I was never a beer drinker – that is one kind of alcohol I do not like the taste of. But I don’t use alcohol to relieve stress – I have yoga, running and piano for that. And I prefer to spend both my money and my calories in other places, hence I don’t drink too much when I go out.
3a) Typical night of drinking… well, a “school night” may entail a glass of wine, or at the most two, with dinner. But that’s only likely to happen once or twice a week. I stick to water the rest of the time. On an evening out, if I’m out at a fancy restaurant with the husband, I’ll choose a wine for us to go with our dinner, as like I said, I’m quite educated about wine and am good at pairings. With girlfriends, I’m probably still going to have wine, since I like it more than any other “adult beverage.” Two glasses, or three tops, on a night out on the weekend. Or possibly a cocktail or two. But I don’t go crazy.
3b) I love almost all wines, except for sweet wines. My favorites are Chablis (REAL Chablis, not the pretend Chablis in a box… I’m looking at you, Mom!), other white Burgundy, Spanish rose, anything sparkling, and Chard or Pinot Noir from the Pacific coast, especially the Russian River Valley. For cocktails, I mainly stick with classic gin cocktails, as (a) that’s what my tastebuds like, and (b) my husband mixes them like a pro.
3c) With hubby, we generally toast each other. With friends, anyone’s success or major life milestones, like weddings or passing the Bar. I generally don’t drink to ease stress or disappointment – if I had to pick a poison for reducing stress, it would be retail, not alcohol. =)
4) No, I’ve never worried that I drink too much. I definitely imbibed my fair share in college and to a lesser degree in law school, but so did most others in my social circle. And it never affected my grades, friendships, or relationships. These days, I worry even less. I have healthy ways of coping with stress and disappointment and although I enjoy wine and the occasional cocktail, I haven’t binged since my student days. Actually, sometimes when I read those studies that say “a drink a day is good for ___,” I think “hmmm, should I be cranking up the par-tay level?” But I really don’t. I have, however, worried that others in my life drink too much. But being only a very light social drinker myself, I am not at all concerned about my own habits.
I usually stick with a bottle of Oberon/some other beer at the end of the day, and red wine at Bar events. Lord knows I could never make it through them without it…
1) Do you drink to excess?
Hardly ever – maybe once a year, and never intentionally.
2) Why do you think that is?
Too expensive, plus I’m useless the next day and can’t afford a day of uselessness
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
I’ll drink 3 beers or a couple glasses of wine once a weekend. Harly ever drink during the week – makes me too sleepy.
(3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
Trader Joes is a staple.
Fine, and 3c: what do you toast to?)
I love my job.
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it?
Not worried about me. But, all of my male lawyer friends have alcohol addition issues. I find it problematic. I don’t like having to drive them everywhere, and I don’t like that they become morons.
I am in house/Director in a company which deals in property development of hotels and resorts. Management (including all Directors) do not drink any alcohol on site at all or at any workplace functions. We all decided it makes things easier because we are in an environment where alcohol is freely available all the time . Works well for us!
Not in law but in big business (multi-billion $ company). I was shocked when I finished grad school a few years ago and learned that most of the top execs had some sort of alcohol stashed in their desks (bottles of Crown, Vodka, etc) or beer in their office fridges. I am not really sure when it was consumed and just can’t imagine (even now) that it was ever appropriate b/c our culture is not one to work extreme late hours into the night. I knew one high ranking female exec who would take a shot before stressful meetings or presentations. There has been quite a bit of turn over in the C-suite during the 5 years I have been with the company; I don’t get the feeling this behavior is quite as pervasive anymore.
For the record, I am not opposed to drinking and do like to enjoy a glass of wine or bottle of beer at work functions, but drinking alone at my desk seems to be asking for trouble.
I worked for a F100 company about 10 years ago where, everyday at 3 PM, the CMO would go rinse his Waterford tumbler in the kitchen and get a Diet Coke from the vending machine. One night while in his office (after hours…yes, I had permission to be in there) I spied his bottle of Bacardi.
As someone relatively new to this blog (hello!) I’m always astounded by the number of attorneys represented. Greetings from another function: marketing.
1) Do you drink to excess?
No. Well, not in the last 10 years anyway. Typically I stop at three glasses of wine or one cocktail.
2) Why do you think that is?
Generations of WASP-y breeding have blessed me with an unusually high tolerance. Also, college gave me a chance to learn the fine art of pacing myself. In terms of why I drink, I enjoy the taste, I enjoy how it makes me feel. I’m naturally high-strung, stressed out and I feel like alcohol somehow makes me normal. Sounds sad, but it’s true.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
During a school night I’ll either have a glass of wine or two while cooking dinner. If I’ve had a particularly difficult day I’ll pour some scotch but never more than a quarter of a highball glass. Oddly, I typically drink less on weekends.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
For wine I love Vueve Clicquot. I also love a good French red Cahors (but they’re tough to find). Vodka tonics are good because if you spill them there’s no mess. As mentioned I’ve recently started exploring single malts – Springbank 15 year is a favorite, I also like Glenkinchie and Bruichladdich. It’s funny to watch men watch a woman order Scotch. It’s like they’ve seen a unicorn.
3c) What do you toast to?
Whatever I can. Life’s too short not to celebrate all achievements. Typically thought, co-workers and I toast to promotions, new opportunities and the end of long projects.
4) Have you ever worried you drink too much? What have you done about it?
Like a lot of social drinkers, I have worried. When it happens I just step away from all alcohol, switch to water (or tonic in social settings) and play it by ear. I’m admittedly very lucky that way and I know that not everyone is able to do that.
1) Do you drink to excess?
Depends on your definition, I guess. I follow two basic rules: (1) never drink more than you intended to at the start of the evening, and (2) never drink so much you’ll regret it the next day. This allows for the occasional moment of “excess,” provided I think the fun of Friday night will justify feeling a little delicate on Saturday morning. =) On the other hand, I don’t let anyone pressure me into “just one more” when I’ve already decided to stop.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
I almost always drink beer. I’ll have a bottle or maybe two as an after-dinner/watching TV treat. Sometimes I’ll drink 4 or 5 nights in a row; other times I’ll go for weeks without drinking and barely notice. (Truth is, sometimes I prefer cookies for my treat!) I like wine with fancy meals, but don’t buy it for home unless I have friends coming over. Since I live alone, an open bottle of wine in the fridge can become an unpleasant obligation. I have no problem ordering beer in most business situations, but if it’s not available or I feel uncomfortable, I’ll nurse a gin and tonic or something nonalcoholic.
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it?
When I was a summer associate, I worried about my drinking– not because I thought I actually had a problem, but because the after hours events were *constant* and it was a little scary how quickly drinking every night became the norm. I stopped drinking for about two months after that, got my nerves (and weight) under control, and then had a stern talk with myself about peer pressure. The truth is, this might be one of the upsides to having had my offer rescinded. Law firm culture includes some heavy drinking, and if you’re not fairly self-aware, you might find yourself upping your alcohol intake to match.
On the issue of Not Drinking–
I don’t always drink alcohol at alcohol-heavy events, for all sorts of reasons: medication, calorie-counting, not liking anything on offer, plans requiring complete sobriety, or a plain bad mood. (Although alcohol can help with mild stress, I avoid it when I’m genuinely upset or depressed. The additional depressant effect makes me feel MUCH worse.)
I’ve had my share of nosy questions, and the best response I’ve come up with is, “Oh, I *really* wanted a lemonade/Diet Coke/water tonight.” Most people just want to know that you’re healthy and enjoying yourself. Even if you’re not, expressing enthusiasm is usually enough to satisfy them. And yes, I’ll occasionally be urged to pour a little rum or vodka into that Diet Coke. I just have to keep repeating “no, thank you” and remind myself that some people just can’t take a hint. =)
The idea that somehow, someday she will control and enjoy her drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. . . here are the methods we have tried: drinking beer only, limiting the number of drinks, never drinking in the morning, drinking only at home, never having it in the house, never drinking normal business hours, drinking only at parties, switching from scotch to brandy, drinking only natural wines. . . . from the big book of Alcoholic Anonymous.
Thank God for the Florida Lawyers Assistance Program that helped me get sober.
Congratulations, good luck on your journey. I too was worried that too many on this thread were saying, ‘what’s the big deal about drinking to excess?’ It’s called alcoholism.
I agree with both of you. I think there’s some big time rationalizing going on with some of the posters on this thread. “But I don’t have a problem if … ”
Frankly I think the whole concept of having to “pretend” you’re drinking alcohol when you’re not (by ordering vodka & tonic, by spitting it out, etc.) is evidence that the culture you’re in is a dysfunctional culture. People who use alcohol wisely and responsibility don’t check on whether others are drinking too and they don’t chide them if they aren’t.
This thread has officially made me scared shit-less. Are you people -driving- after drinking like this?
I don’t understand the drinking culture at all. During my first job as an attorney I typically would drink perhaps a few times a month, usually when exceptionally stressed out, and my husband and I decided to get all the alcohol out of the house because I was worried that I was associating alcohol with relaxing. I drank very rarely in college and only a few times while in law school. I always kept well within my limits, and I never thought it was “fun”.
I knew students who drank to excess and had problems as a result, but I had no idea that regularly consuming alcohol and getting drunk was – and is – so common among my peers.
I can’t imagine this is healthy.
I think that most attorneys don’t live in cities where it is the norm to drive to work, so you can be less scared. I certainly don’t know a single person who drives drunk, and I know a lot of drunks.
I have a minor bone to pick with Corporette’s contention that women without children have “less real responsibility.” Maybe I am reading this into it, but to me it smacks of a value judgment that motherhood is somehow supreme to all other achievements or obligations or commitments a woman could undertake. I certainly don’t feel like I am running around fancy-free just because I don’t have children, or, more to the point, that my responsibilities are less “real”.
Conversely, just because a woman DOES have children doesn’t necessarily mean that she will always (or should) put those children above everything else. I say this as someone who spent *a lot* of nights out on the town in bars with my own mother when I was a small child.
“smacks of…” hmm, let me guess. you wandered over here from jezebel?
Well, for the folks still following: if you don’t have children, would you describe your life as consisting of “less real responsibilities”? Think about your work responsibilities to clients, other family responsibilities, and whatever you consider your responsibilities to yourself. Are they “less real” ?
Maybe I misunderstoof and Corporette meant “fewer” real responsibilities?
I think she meant fewer responsibilities. Kat doesn’t have children, so I doubt she was saying that women without children don’t have “real” responsibilities.
I think she meant “fewer”, not less significant/worthy/time-consuming.
I’ve had long periods in my adult life with no children and very important jobs, and I’ll freely say that I have a lot more real responsbility now as a parent than I ever have before. If my client were to lose a case because I didn’t properly review all the documents, a task I can do at various times of my own choosing, it’s money out of their pocket. If I did not keep my toddler out of the street, a task I can’t defer if I’m not in the mood to handle it right then, she gets killed by a passing car. That’s not the same thing as saying my responsibilities are more important — but they are definitely more real.
I think I read it differently. I think that women without kids do drink more. My co-workers with children can’t, on the spur of the moment, go out for happy hour and stay out until even 8 or 9 – they have babysitters and someone has to pick up the kids. Like someone else mentioned, a lot of non-child responsibilities can have a flexible schedule, but if the day care closes at 6, the day care closes at 6, and if you haven’t already scheduled back up, you can’t, spur of the moment, go out on the town. It’s hard to enjoy a glass of wine if you’re also trying to feed a toddler. So it’s not to say women without kids don’t have real responsibilities, it’s just that the type of responsibilities that come with children tend to be less flexible and impact alcohol consumption more.
I don’t really want to broach the idea of having children in bars…that fight’s been had in the NY Times comments.
1) Do you drink to excess? No. I have about a glass-two glasses of wine a month, max. When I was in college and grad school, I would usually have a glass of white wine or a cocktail while the others were guzzling down on the beer when we went out. I also found that a lot of non-alcoholic cocktails are really tasty.
My current job has a strict no-alcohol policy on the premises, but my former job was a lot more relaxed – with a regular Friday get-together with wine, bottles of wine for Christmas presents… but it was set up so it did not encourage mindless drinking.
2) Why do you think that is? I have never liked the taste of beer, I don’t like the taste of most red wines, and I’m really particular about my cocktails, too. Furthermore, I don’t care for the feeling of being drunk, or the hangover the next day. I’m slightly introverted in unknown situations, and I’ve found that alcohol does not help with that feeling – I just withdraw even more.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night? I don’t drink on “school nights” normally. If I go out to eat, then I tend to order water with my meal. If I meet up with friends, I go for the non-alcoholic choice. On weekends, and for parties, I tend to restrict myself to a couple of glasses of wine, and then only infrequently.
3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer? I love a good Shirley Temple or a Virgin Strawberry Daiquiri for the non-alcoholic cocktails. A slightly sweet white wine is also perfect.
I’ve never been one of those who’ll head out and drink like mad for the weekend, so getting out of school hasn’t changed my habits noticeably. What changed them slightly, was moving to a smaller city (and another country) than where I studied – the choice in drinks, and the cost was not the same as where I lived before.
I don’t drink at all, out of health reasons and preference, but used to a lot. I’m embarrassed by that history. I’m amazed at the cultural prominence of it- when you don’t, it’s incredible how many people and functions revolve around it. Over time, I’ve found groups where it doesn’t- e.g. friends with a common love of certain types of dance who love to hang out but not get wasted- and find that they are more interesting, happier types on the whole. That said- I miss having an occasional glass of wine. Maybe again someday.
Motivated to comment because I’ve worked as an attorney in two different states and can confirm that drinking varies with geography.
For the first 7 years out of law school I worked at a big firm, a prosecutor’s office and a small firm–all in Colorado. Drinking was the norm and sometimes to excess (especially after trials ended). The big firm attorneys drank the most, the prosecutor’s office attorneys a close second and at the small firm everyone drank but not together and not to excess. One more than one occaision at the big firm we were served alcohol to celebrate big wins/settlements/etc. At the prosecutor’s office once in awhile a chief would mix daquaris on a Friday afternoon but going out for happy hours was more the norm. At the small firm we did not socialize much together at all.
The last three years I’ve worked as an attorney in government in Idaho. NO ONE drinks here and alcohol is rarely, if ever served, at events. The reason? Most people are LDS (Mormons) and if not, do not want to drink in front of LDS coworkers for fear of being judged. My office Christmas party does serve alcohol (cash bar) but few people drink, again, not wanting to be noticed by the Mormon higher-ups-drinking has very negative connotations with this group of people. My co workers that are not Mormon never do happy hours together and we do not socialize much together either. Because of my job I do not socialize at all with attorneys in private practice so I cannot comment on their drinking habits, but with 40% of the population being LDS and another good portion being very religious my guess is the drinking is not prevalent among them either.
Myself? I drink, rarely to excess, almost exclusively red wine & occaisionally gin and tonic. I get terrible hangovers and this stops me from over-indulging. I definitely drank more and went out more as an attorney in Colorado. I miss the commaraderie with co workers here in Idaho and hate the idea that I am being judged if I drink at an event but that is the reality here. If you are religious, don’t drink for whatever reason, etc. Idaho would be an ideal place to work and escape the kind of social pressures described in the comments. Personally, I cannot stand my tax dollars being spent on what boils down to a theocracy and detest the religious zealotry that seems to be combined with serious racial and religious bigotry and homophobia. My husband and I were very naive about the culture here and thought that because we were moving to the biggest city here (Boise) in what was supposed to be the most “liberal” county (Ada) that life would not be too different than Colorado. We were completely wrong and are planning to move out of state as soon as possible. The drinking issue is not a motivation to move, it is a symptom of the problem–constant judgment and living in a repressive environment governed by old, white men who use religion as a weapon. In some ways, this non-drinking atomosphere is more toxic and demoralizing than working with a bunch of alcoholics.
Great topic!! And the responses so far have been really interesting. I am an attorney and I worked at a medium sized firm for 5 years, and now I am at a smaller firm. We do transactional work and mostly corporate litigation. So the days can be stressful…
1) Do you drink to excess?
Not usually, unless it is the occassional bachelorette party, or something like that. I usually never go beyond 3-4, because I just don’t like being hung over the next day! At 36, I just can’t rebound like I could in college. I like my Saturdays and Sundays too much to ruin them by being immobile on the couch. ;)
2) Why do you think that is?
I don’t like getting totally out of control and sloppy, and I don’t like being really hung over.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
During a school night, I’ll usually have a glass of wine or two with dinner. I drink and eat like a European (at least, I do in my mind), so I can’t see having dinner without a glass of wine. I’m not trying to be a snob here, but I spent a lot of time doing volunteer work in Italy and France as a college kid, so I really just like the lifestyle. Now if we could just revamp our working hours and vacation time to be like the French and Italians….life would be grand! Also, I was married to a head chef at a very fancy restaurant for several years (whose family was Italian), and having wine with dinner was just the way we ate.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
As far as wine is concerned, I love it all. Except for white zinfandel, but that’s not really a wine, is it? ;) During the work week, I usually done spend more than $10 to $12 on a bottle. I have a few go-to’s. I adore French wine, but it is more expensive, so that’s usually reserved for special occassions. As far as beer is concerned, I drink Newcastle, Bass, and Fat Tire most often. For cocktails, I stick to vodka tonics or cosmos (I know, it’s so 2001!)
3c) What do you toast to?
Life. A hard days’ work. An easy day’s work. I love to sit down to dinner and savor the wine with my food. I love to think about who picked the grapes and how the weather was that year —- I know I am veering into “Sideways” territory here, but I have always felt that way about a bottle of wine. It is so much more than just grape juice or something to wash the food down with! It also signifies the sharing of talk and friendship; when my girlfriends come over, we always talk and share over a bottle of wine and some food.
4) Have you ever worried you drink too much? What have you done about it?
Sometimes I feel bad because the Puritanical roots we have here in the US say “don’t drink everyday” or “don’t drink alone”! But then I remind myself that in other countries, having a glass or two of wine is perfectly normal, and is expected. So, I try to not let the American sensibilities deter me too much from enjoying myself.
I hope I don’t sound too much like a person who loves all things European, and hates the US! That is not the case at all, I just don’t accept the way we think here as the be-all end-all. That being said, I love my country. It’s always refreshing to run into Americans abroad, becuase they are so happy and friendly! (A fact which annoys certain European folks….not that I would name the country(s) specifically!!)
I’m a lawyer in a large city in NC. Well, large by NC standards! ;) I worked for a medium sized firm for 5 years, and now I work at a smaller firm. I do mostly corporate litigation.
1) Do you drink to excess?
No, unless it’s a bachelorette party or something like that — then, I have been known to indulge a bit too much! For me, anything more than 3 or 4 drinks is excessive, based on the fact that I’m hung over the next day and I get a little out of control in the moment!
2) Why do you think that is?
I don’t like to be hung over during the week, because I can’t think straight! And I don’t like being immobile on the weekends, because they are so precious to me. I don’t usually work on the weekends, or, if I do, only a little (barring a trial or hearing). I love to garden, shop, decorate, read, travel, work out, walk, etc., so I hate for my only free time to be wasted feeling horrible!
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
During a school night, I’ll have a glass of wine or two with dinner. I almost always have wine with my night-time meal, because I love good food and I savor the taste of wine with it. It’s pretty much the same on the weekends, only I will stay up later. I was married to a fancy chef (whose family was Italian), so it really became a way of life for me. Also, I spent a lot of time over many years in college (yes, the five year plan) studying abroad, working, and/or doing volunteer work in Europe, mostly in Italy and France. So, I observed and participated in the nightly ritual of good food and wine, and I liked it. Very much.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
I love all types of wine, except white zinfandel (which isn’t really wine, is it?) hee hee….For nightly dinners, I generally spend about $10 to $12 a bottle. I have my go-to’s that are consistently good, like the ubiquitous Ravenswood Zinfandel, or anything Mondavi, and lately, if I’m feeling cheap, Rex-Goliath Zinfandel (at $5.99 it’s a steal and trust me, fruit-forward, no tannins, full bodied and delicious). I love french wines, but hey, they’re expensive, so that is mostly saved for a dinner party or a special occassion. My boyfriend is a total champagne whore (‘scuse me!), so sometimes we’ll indulge in some ridiculously priced champagne. Usually on New Year’s Eve. It seems obligatory. For beer, I drink Newcastle, Bass, and lately, Fat Tire. As far as liquor, the occassional vodka tonic or cosmo (I know ladies, so 2001!) will do.
3c) What do you toast to?
Life. A hard day’s work. An easy day’s work. Mostly, I just love the sense of sharing, specialness and conviviality that a bottle of wine brings to dinner. It seems to lighten the load, relax, and make sharing and talking and laughing easier. I love to invite a friend over, or a lover, and have a bottle of wine and some food. To me, it represents sharing and friendship. And it complements food so well! I am a total hedonist in many ways.
I associate wine as being much more than a bottle of grape juice, it represents history and a particular place and moment in time. There were people who picked the grapes, there might have been rain one year, a family that lived nearby or one that moved…the taste of the terrior in french wines that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years…all of it is just fascinating to me. I know, I am veering a little into “Sideways” territory here, but since working in Italy for 3 months one summer when I was 20 years old, and listening, and learning, I have always felt this way about wine…
4) Have you ever worried you drink too much? What have you done about it?
Sometimes, and I regret thinking that. Here is what I think, and this is completely my own opinion and one that was shaped by my own unique experiences. Everybody is different, but I think my point of view and life are unique, and so maybe it’s worth sharing. Maybe.
I think that in the U.S., because we were a Puritan society, we have a lot of “issues” with sexuality and drinking. Too much is a good thing, but to me, so is too little. I only feel bad about having a glass of wine or two at night when the puritanical, evangelical Christian up-bringing I have rears its head. Then I just remind myself that it’s all in what you know…in many countries, having wine is a part of life. It never occurred to people in France to think “I might have a problem if I have a glas of wine at night with dinner.” That thought is absurd to a Frenchman. They think you’re weird if your’e NOT drinking a glass of wine with dinner. So, for me, I try to edit out the puritanical guilt that I sometimes feel.
And just to say this — no, I don’t drink and drive! And I do love my country and I’m not one of those crazy let’s-move-to Europe gals! But, it’s healthy to accept certain things and reject certain things, and make your own way in this life, rather than just accepting a certain way of life as the be-all, end-all.
Cheers, ladies!!
Sorry, I didn’t mean to post twice!!
1) Do you drink to excess?
Rarely. I get drunk maybe once every year or two. Used to drink more.
2) Why do you think that is?
I hate the feeling of being drunk, and I don’t handle alcohol well, so I mostly just feel tired and sick if I have one too many. I also don’t want the extra calories. If I’m going to indulge, it’s usually going to be in a burger or a dessert. Drinking just causes me to eat more to soak up the alcohol, which means even more extra calories.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
One drink before or with dinner, or maybe two drinks tops. Same on either a school night or weekend. I occasionally drink at home – usually bourbon on the rocks to relax, or a beer on a hot day.
3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
I drink Manhattans (Makers) in cold weather and Gibsons (Beefeater, usually) in hot weather, for the most part. I also will drink bourbon or gin on the rocks. A Singapore Sling is also a real treat in hot weather but few bartenders know how to make them. I can’t drink wine and I’m very careful about beer due to a pretty severe sulfite allergy.
Fine, and 3c: what do you toast to?)
Usually whomever I’m drinking with.
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much?
No. Even in college or law school, when I got drunk more often, it was still only once a month or so. I never really liked being drunk.
Oh, and I forgot – I have drank the office, but only when others are drinking, i.e. at a social event held at the office. I would not find it inappropriate if someone who was working late eating dinner at the office had a glass of wine, or ordered a beer or wine at a business lunch. But I’d find it very inappropriate for someone to be drinking at work just to drink instead of to accompany a meal.
I am a lawyer…and while I don’t ever get drunk anymore…I do have a glass of wine more nights then I probably should…
I don’t drink at all. I don’t have any reason not too, I just don’t. I’ve never felt any social/work pressure to drink, and I’m actually quite shocked when I hear about people pretending to drink liquor when it’s really a Diet Coke.
1) Do you drink to excess? Very rarely! Did my fair share of that in college… these days if it happens, it wasn’t on purpose!
2) Why do you think that is? Because I’m over it, plain and simple. I’d rather enjoy a beverage than slam 6 in a row for fun.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night? On a weeknight, if I am drinking it’s probably one drink, and probably not even finish it – since I’m usually driving home shortly thereafter.
3b: Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer? I love amaretto sours, merlot or Riesling, Miller lite or a Blue Moon!
3c: what do you toast to? Usually good things :)
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it? Nope, I’ve never been a big drinker – even in college when I did it… I probably only did it once or twice a month (and I mean going out and binge drinking for sport.)
1) Do you drink to excess?
No usually. The occasional times have been on vacations, bbq’s, weddings, christmas eve, etc. Basically, when I’m with the family and not worried about driving. And if I make a donkey out of myself, heck, it’s just family, not my boss, co-worker, etc.
2) Why do you think that is?
Excess is drinking too much that it prevents me from functioning properly the next day, which could be as small as a bad headache or all day belly aches. Nothing is worth feeling sick for.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
School night/work night – might be a happy hour (1-2 beers after work) or a beer. On the weekend – I almost never drink, unless it’s a BBQ, wedding, special event… special dinner.
When I go to events with an open bar – I usually order a rum w/diet. The next time around, I order a diet coke on the rocks (usually the bar tender smiles) and stick with that..maybe have another run/diet later on. I have never had anyone give me a hard time about not drinking at an event.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
Love, love, love, love, love margarita’s! Love patron silver.
Also, I’m a beer snob: amstel light, yuengling, sam adams, blue moon.
3c) what do you toast to?)
Everything. There is always something to … exams are done, classes are over, job offer, no offer, sun is shining, good health, happiness, love…
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it?
My first two years of law school I realized I drank too frequently. I was not drinking in excess, but my social life revolved around alcohol. When I realized that, I quickly changed. I go to social events with alcohol once per semester… end of the semester usually. And to keep in touch with friends, I meet up with them for lunch on the weekends… or for coffee before class.
Drinking at work:
I work for a higher education instititution – and we’ve been known to drink at work, but always for events – holiday party, st. patrick’s day, etc. My boss has some aged scotch in his overhead compartment of his desk. I have never been comfortable drinking during work hours, because I’ve questioned my work quality. Would I want someone processing my papers, drafting my docs, when they’ve had a couple? Probably not.
When I was with the BIG firm, a friend and mentor was drinking at least three double G&Ts every night, before going out to eat or home for dinner where she would down a bottle of wine. I used to try to keep up; it seemed to please her that I could.
In December I had a biopsy on an “unknown mass” in my right breast. It turned out to be benign, but alcohol consumption is now acknowledged as a major risk factor for breast cancer according to the American Cancer Society webpage. As much as I enjoyed the “macha” lifestyle, I’ll take no more “masses” over the best tequilla any day.
Your friend and mentor started her night with three double G&Ts (so, really, six drinks) every night?
Good lord. I’m glad you are okay after your scare, and I hope she gets help.
As a lawyer, it seems to me conferences are where the most alcohol drinking happens, e.g., entertaining clients, etc. Even so, several of my clients don’t drink alcohol so it is never uncomfortable for me to turn down alcohol for a soda or water. I have a two drink limit and I don’t drink if I’m going to be driving. Not drinking alcohol, e.g., during both pregnancies and when the kids were little, has never been a problem for me and I want to keep it that way. It’s tempting to use it as a depressant during stressful times, but I’ve turned to exercise and spending time with family instead. I have friends and relatives that are recovering alcoholics and I definitely don’t want to go down that road.
1) Do you drink to excess?
No. If I am feeling drunk, I stop.
2) Why do you think that is?
Honestly? My parents were never big drinkers; they would often split a glass of wine when we went out to dinner, but I never saw them drink any other type of alcohol while I was growing up. I have also seen far too many lovely people make themselves look like idiots in public after one too many drinks.
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
School night: maybe a glass of wine with dinner once or twice a week. Weekend night: maybe a cocktail or two, but not more than once or twice a month.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
I love KAZ wines (small winery in Kenwood, CA), kamikazes, mojitos, and authentic margaritas. I can also usually be tempted by a good dessert wine.
3c) What do you toast to?
Surviving a tough day, succeeding in a tough class (yay law school!), getting the job or role I was hoping for, or someone making it through another year of life in general.
4) On the more serious side — have you ever worried that you drink too much? What have you done about it?
My first semester of law school saw me consuming more cocktails and beer than previously, which worried me. I decided to cut back before things got out of hand — now I go to the gym or shop online to relax instead!
Hi there…not sure if my profession has been covered yet, but if it hasn’t – it should be. I think being a lobbyist may be one of the most drink-heavy professions. We don’t work the late hours of lawyers or bankers…but every evening is an event…fundraisers, political events, taking clients to dinner, hanging out with important contacts, etc. And all of those events involve alcohol. Before you know it, you’re drinking daily without planning to.
Here we go:
1) Do you drink to excess?
On personal times, sometimes. In work settings, never to the point of regretting anything said or done the next day, and never more so than my superiors that may be present.
2) Why do you think that is?
Drinking to excess? I think long hours and intense pressure at work leave one trying to enjoy one’s remaining hours of the day to the greatest extent possible. I certainly can’t wind down from the day (especially if it’s been a late day) by cooking dinner and painting. Maybe others can – and that’s great. But a glass of wine (or two or three) really do help me relax. I feel odd saying it out loud, but I challenge anyone to say they drink for the taste of alcohol by itself. :)
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
During highly stressful times, a school night involves splitting a bottle of wine with my boyfriend. Weekend nights are strangely less alcohol-filled. I’ll likely drink more hard liquor than wine given I’m out at a bar or lounge, not sitting at home making dinner, etc.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
Best bad day hard drink: Ketel One dirty martini.
Best good day hard drink: Patron Silver margarita on the rocks.
Best higher-end red wine: Jordan Cabernet Sauvignon.
Best higher-end white wine: Cakebread Sauvignon Blanc.
Best inexpensive but delicious red wine: Rodney Strong Cabernet Sauvignon; Dynamite Cabernet Sauvignon
Best inexpensive but delicious white wine: Still searching…
Best champagne: Veuve Cliquot.
3c) What do you toast to?
Tomorrow.
4) Have you ever worried you drink too much? What have you done about it?
Yes, often. I make empty promises about only drinking on weekends, only drinking wine, only drinking one glass an evening. But the next day will always present some challenge or reason to celebrate. :)
My profession hasn’t been covered yet but it absolutely should be: engineering. I know there aren’t as many women historically in my field, but there is definitely a “boy’s club” mentality and a lot of people get caught up in the culture.
It starts right in school. The motto of most engineering schools is “work hard, play hard.” A lot of students come to relate relaxation and socializing with alcohol consumption. It’s definitely part of the “rowdy engineer” image so that pranks, traditions, and faculty pride are all tied to alcohol. As a women in engineering, you can feel the pressure to fit in and act like a “real” engineer.
Luckily, the beer-obsessed/fratboy culture is something that’s fading with time and I think diversity of our universities has really helped. Many people do not drink because of religious tradition so our student societies always provide non-alcoholic alternatives and try to plan more events that don’t involve alcohol at all.
1) Do you drink to excess?
Sometimes. I always count my drinks and make sure to be aware of my motivations to drink. If I’m feeling hurt, sad, bored, or lonely I try and deal with those issues and won’t drink. If I overindulge, it’s when I’m out celebrating with friends. I give myself some rules: never drink my dinner or cab money, never more than three a night. I’ve never had a hangover so I guess it works. I consider a beer and a bath one of life’s pleasures.
2) Why do you think that is?
My mother’s family has a history of alcoholism and my father’s family has a history of mental illness. Both my father and my only sibling have been diagnosed with manic depression so I’m more careful about my moods/motivations than others. The goal is more balance and a life of moderation so I moniter not only my drinking but my food, sleep and exercise habits as well. It’s all part of the package :)
3a) What does a typical night of drinking look like for you, during a “school night” and during a weekend night?
I will have one bottle of beer with my roommates or boyfriend while watching a show or at dinner, or in the tub, usually after finishing a lab report or assignment. This’ll only happen once or twice every month. I never go out to the bars on weekdays and sometimes go weeks without drinking without noticing it. I drink for taste, not intoxication.
3b) Any favorite cocktails, types or brands of wine, liquor or beer?
Mill Street Organic beer, but I like most light beers. I’m in chemical engineering so I appreciate beer like a chef appreciates pastry.
3c) What do you toast to?
Not failing out! My awesome roommates.
4) Have you ever worried you drink too much? What have you done about it?
No because I never drink mindlessly or out of habit. I also have some very good friends who don’t drink but are very good dancers. Going out with them there is never any pressure to “have to” drink.