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Updated: Nov 16, 2020 419 Comments · by

Splurge Monday’s Workwear Report: Pussy-Bow Silk-Jacquard Blouse

The Personal Shopper (TPS)

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Kamala Harris’s whole outfit for her first speech as Vice President-elect was totally swoon-worthy, but for me, the highlight was the ivory blouse that she wore with her suffragette-inspired Carolina Herrera pantsuit. This saffron yellow, pussy-bow, jacquard blouse has a similar vibe — it’s formal, but not stuffy, fashionable, but still classic-looking.

I don’t love the look of yellow paired with black (it feels too . . . bumblebee-like?), so I would probably wear this tucked into a pair of gray or navy trousers. It would also look great with a deep purple or evergreen.

The blouse is $2,290 and available in French sizes 34–44. Pussy-Bow Silk-Jacquard Blouse

A couple of more affordable alternatives are from Vince Camuto ($79) and Liverpool Los Angeles ($68); in plus sizes, Eloquii has an option that comes in three prints, with three more coming soon.

Sales of note for 9.30.24

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Elizabeth

Elizabeth is a 30-something lawyer living on the East Coast. She spent seven years as a Biglaw associate in NYC, three years as a partner at a medium-sized firm, and is now in-house counsel for a large company. She loves Diet Coke, '90s sitcoms, and dresses with pockets.

Comments

  1. Anon

    To those who live alone, how do you keep your social skills sharp during covid? I’m an introvert who can go for weeks without talking to any friends. Recently I met up with a friend in person and felt weirdly awkward.

    • Ellen

      Great Question! I think you can keep up your social skills through ZOOM or iphone video–this way you talk and see people which you cannot do otherwise. Of course, the picture on the computer or phone is not flattering–my freind Myrna had her iPhone pointing up her nose where she had a lot of boogers–that is NOT the kind of thing we need if we are talking to men! FOOEY! So make sure you have blown your nose b/f you call someone, and point the camera DOWN at your face so that you wont get the booger syndrome! YAY!!!

    • Anonymous

      Honestly, my social skills are rapidly deteriorating but I’m enjoying the break from a lot of forced interactions. It has made me reflect on how society is designed to accommodate extroverts and neurortypical individuals with the constant communications. I don’t love how I’m forced to change and modify for the sake of others.

    • Cb

      I wouldn’t worry about it. Judging by the awkward Teams chats I’ve had lately, I think we’ve all gone a bit feral during lockdown, whether or not you live alone or with a partner.

    • Anonymous

      It’s so easy to just text with my BFF who lives in another city but we try to have a Friday night cocktail zoom session at least once a month. We take turns picking what cocktail to make.

    • Anna

      My social skills have definitely deteriorated a bit. I am an introvert, but I still don’t like that. I think that everyone does know it’ll be a bit awkward, there are tons of jokes and memes about it, but I’m still trying to say yes to phone calls and video calls even when I feel meh about it because I don’t want to totally hermit.

    • Monte

      What makes you think your skills are deteriorating? I haven’t noticed anything about my own skills, but maybe I have gotten super weird and am the last person to know…

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      Weirdly, I don’t know if my social skills have deteriorated per se, but my social stamina may have decreased. We went to a socially distanced BBQ over the summer, and when I got home I just wanted to go to bed, and I chalked it up to feeling drained after being around people all afternoon. I feel like, when things go back to normal and we start going to actual parties again, it’s gonna be weird for a while, but most of us (the ones who’ve been responsible anyway) will be in the same boat.

      • anne-on

        Yes, this was my experience too. We had a very small outdoor gathering this summer and while the kids were thrilled and energized after I was SO mentally drained. I think it was a combo of social interaction AND all the adults being SO on top of the kids to make sure they were distancing/had masks on/etc.

        • Anonymous

          I had this experience too. I met my parents for an outdoor distanced walk, but it wasn’t that relaxing because the area we went ended up being fairly crowded. Mask-wearing was pretty good, actually, but having to constantly be on guard was tiring. We couldn’t go somewhere else easily because my father is currently walking with a cane.

          • Thanks, it has pockets!

            Oh yeah, constant vigilance can be exhausting too! That was our experience going to a restaurant back in July. My partner felt like between the tables being so close together, and having to quickly mask up any time a server or busser came to the table, it was super stressful. I’m still glad we went to that particular place because it was a summer tradition, but we didn’t eat out after that.

    • anon

      So, I went to the office first time after many months and I found it so weird that I didn’t even know what to tell to people. It felt like first day at work (the first day in your first ever work). But after a few hours, I caught up with the reality. Now with cases rising in Hungary (yes, that’s right, I am not writing Europe) and a curfew from 8pm till 5am, I am back to WFH. I would not worry about deteriorating social skills – it is like a bicycle ride. Just show genuine interest in people and be human.

  2. Anon

    The Moderna vaccine looks promising. For those who work in pharma or have a better understanding of vacccines than i do- when they say that of the 15,000 people who got the vaccine only a handful developed Covid- did all 15,000 have known exposure to Covid? If they didn’t, how can you claim that it’s effective?

    • Anon

      They compare the incidence of contracting COVID in the control group to the intervention (vaccinated group). The exposure to COVID is unknown in each group. Essentially you get the vaccine )or placebo) and go about your life. I haven’t seen this data, but the Pfizer data showed a much lower rate of contracting COVID (in the control group) than the general population. I think it was ~ 75% decrease. So it is not exactly clear how these efficacy rates will translate to the real world. There is some thought that the thoughts people who volunteered for the clinical trials are more likely to take COVID precautions than the general population and the explained the lower infection rate in the control group (as compared to the general population) and may be a confounding factor.

      • OP

        thank you for this explanation. so we don’t really know how the vaccine will work in a non-masked, non-social distanced world, though the results seem promising!

        • Anonymous

          Actually we know a lot more than that! vaccine trials work are in fact designed, studied, and tested to be a reliable method of testing efficacy.

        • AnonMPH

          We don’t know exactly what will happen outside of a trial setting (does being in a trial impact volunteers’ behavior in some way? do people who volunteer for a trial behave differently from people who don’t?) but we do know that this is exactly how you design vaccine trials to determine effectiveness. People who volunteered were randomly assigned to the placebo or vaccine groups, and the trials were double blind so that neither the volunteers nor the medical professionals knew who received placebo or control. Also, those 15000 people were signed up at different sites, and people within each site were still randomly assigned between placebo and vaccine groups, so that you don’t have everyone in florida getting the vaccine and everyone in dc getting the placebo.
          Because you do NOT purposefully expose people to diseases during vaccine trials, you have to have 15000 people in each group to have enough statistical power to make determinations of effectiveness from the results. Give that 15000 people received placebo and 15000 received the vaccine, the result that 90 people who had the placebo and only 5 who had the vaccine got COVID is remarkable. While of course we don’t know that those numbers will hold up perfectly as the trial continues longer or when it is rolled out into the general population, this is in fact how we determine what will happen in a non-masked, non-social distanced world. Usually the drop off between a trial *effectiveness* and real world *efficacy*is more about implementation of an intervention- does everyone actually get a vaccine that has had proper cold-chain throughout the distribution, or has it been compromised? Did everyone actually come back for the second dose?

      • Anonymous

        I have not looked into it yet, but I want to see if they did a comparison of the baseline characteristics between the two groups. I want to see if they both had similar levels of exposure.

        • Anon

          Exposure would have to be self-reported and it would so wildly unreliable that it would be menaingless.

    • Anonymous

      No, people are not actively exposed as part of a vaccine, they go about their lives.

      • Anonymous

        There are people volunteering to be exposed as part of challenge trials, actually, but not as part of this preliminary work.

    • Ellen

      There is an algoritm they use, kind of like the double blind taste test on TV, where no one but them knows if you get the real virus or the antidote. They take the results, run it through the algoritm, and then come up with a result. The algoritm is out there on the web if someone can find it for Anon!

    • anon

      They don’t knowingly expose people to COVID, but they do regularly track participant’s health, ask about known exposure, ask about symptoms, etc. If someone becomes symptomatic, they bring them in for a work-up, swab for Covid and do bloodwork, etc. So they can then look at people who have a positive test and cross-reference with whether they had the placebo or not.

    • Ellen

      @Ribena, I agree the blouse is very expensive, but it is Saint Laurent, which makes a difference and it is silk, which also makes a difference. It is above my pay grade also, but one of these days, if we find rich guys to marry, we won’t have to win the lottery to afford this. Of course, we will have to put up with these guys at least long enough for us to upgrade our wardrobe’s! YAY!!!

    • Anonymous

      That’s ambitious. If I won the lottery, I’d make the Dude in The Big Lebowski look business formal by comparison.

      [OTOH: I dress for occasions. If I leave the house for a job, I dress for that. Or a conference (remember them?). Or if I am speaking at something. Or a fancy thing. Or something where a hated rival may be at and I need to look sharp (sad to say). But I do not know how to dress for being Idle Rich, especially Idle New Money. I doubt I will have a valet to help me dress for dinner like Downton Abbey. I might just not bother? I might live just in tennis attire b/c I’d actually play vs buy items I might theoretically use. I really don’t know any rich people who don’t have $ from working at a job — the doctors wear scrubs and the lawyers wear nice or even relaxed work attire, but it isn’t what they wear not working.]

      • pugsnbourbon

        There have been discussions on this board about differences between old and new money – definitely an interesting read if you can get the search function to work.
        From what I remember, Old Money casual is lots of well-worn Ralph Lauren-type outfits. Everything is expensive and well-made but devoid of labels. You could have plausibly stepped in from the (historic and architecturally significant) barn or the (prized heirloom) sailboat at any moment.
        I’m drawing a blank for New Money – head to toe Patagonia is my best guess.

        • Ribena

          New Money to me is conspicuous consumption. Canada Goose parkas in (most of) the UK are a good example – totally unnecessary and VERY expensive.

          • Anon

            I love my Canada Goose coat. I buy a new down coat about every 10+ years and this one has been awesome.

          • Anon

            Just look at the Kardashians for new money looks. Lots of label flaunting, aggressively tight and often ugly stuff etc

        • Anonymous

          What is the model wearing — leather pants with an attached left-side skirt?

          • Shelle

            It looks like she’s wearing pants and holding a jacket behind her in her left hand? I had to stare for a minute to figure it out!

        • Jeffiner

          Not fashion wise but for cars – I noticed that in the carpool lane of my daughter’s private school, ALL of the cars were white, black, or grey. There are lots of Land Rovers and giant luxury SUVS, and some Porsches and Teslas and such, but no color. My car is also a Tesla, but its bright blue and really stands out. My husband and I joke that that’s how everyone can tell we’re New Money.

          • Anonymous

            Having gone to one of those fancy private schools myself, new money were the ones driving the Range Rovers and giant luxury SUVs. Old money were driving the several-year-old (or VERY old) Mercedes, Volvo, etc.

  4. Cb

    Is there such a thing of non-cliche art for a kitchen? What search terms might I use to get there? A landscape feels weird but I don’t want ‘but first coffee’ on my wall.

    • Anon

      Looking for the same thing. I thought about a cloth wall hanging or tapestry, but my wall is still blank and staring at me. I think an abstract landscape might work.

      • Cb

        I have a very cool DIY tapestry in the sitting room but worry kitchens seem to get dirtier. Something abstract might work. Trying to tone down a very red kitchen (who thought fire engine red tiles were a good idea?)

    • Anon

      I have a print of a panel of my favorite webcomic. Cb, you might also like something from Obvious State (I’ve had my eye on the Kate Chopin one).

    • Anonymous

      Okay, this is probably all cliche. But I am okay with cliche when it is sentimental/personal. I once thought about framing pictures of some of my favorite restaurants. We have a handful of picutres of some important-to-us restaurants (favorite from honeymoon, where we went the night DH proposed, etc.) where the signs are lit up at night. Second, prints of some family recipes in my grandmothers’ handwriting. Third, how about a framed picture of your son as a baby with food all over his face? Or a first birthday cake smash picture? Lastly, I think seasonal stuff looks great in a kitchen, so you could switch it up for various holidyas.

      • Jules

        When I was married, we had in our kitchen framed photos of favorite restaurants from places we had traveled; some were beautiful because they were colorful (e.g, spots in Montreal and near Covent Garden in London) but some were nice just because they were sentimental. One had DS as a young boy sitting on a bench in front but mostly we tried to take a photo where one or two of us could be seen inside a window, if you looked closely; they were not selfies.

        In my current kitchen, I just have art that I like: a painted tile thing on the wall above the sink, a funky clock, an oil painting and a framed watercolor that I love and that somehow perfectly echoes the watercolor-looking area rug in the kitchen (yes, I have a big rug in the kitchen, and yes it gets dirty; I hate the flooring but not enough to pay to replace it) even though they were purchased years apart.

        • Jules

          It occurs to me that beautiful black-and-white photography (food themed or not) would look great on the red tiles and maybe tone things down a bit.

    • Anonymous

      Go for a landscape if that’s what you want! :)

      It’s practical to have something in a frame/glass that can be washed, if it’s a print artwork.

      You could also do a hanging (shells, wood etc) of some kind, something natural.

    • Lily

      I think it’s very chic when people hang beautiful tiles or decorative plates on kitchen walls – typically that they’ve picked up while traveling. For example, Italian or Mexican ceramics. You get special hangers for plates or tiles.

    • Anon

      I think this depends so much on the kitchen. An outdoor scene might look great if it’s compensating for “no window,” for example! I think the aesthetics of the end result and your personal preferences matter most, but a lot of people use the kitchen for wall hangings that have more sentimental or personal significance (for example, a map or an architectural print that recalls a hometown, home state, or a favorite city), or that suit a smaller space (like a relatively close up photo).

      • pugsnbourbon

        Oh I like the architectural print idea! We have a framed patent diagram that would fit well in our kitchen, now that I think about it. I also like b&w photos in kitchens.

    • Anon

      As long as you don’t do any faux-calligraphy signs saying “GATHER” or “EAT,” you’re doing ok-ish on the non-cliche front. Honestly avoid all decorating with words and put a framed print you like on the walls instead.

    • Ribena

      Red Door Gallery have some gorgeous prints of herbs and coffee pots. Personally I have a big (A2) Mister Peebles print of a trainspotting bear in front of a sign saying EDINBEAR WAVERLEY. (That appeals to my sense of humour).

    • anne-on

      My kitchen/informal rooms (bedrooms, toy rooms, office) are my preferred spots for family photos. So, that’s my pick. Plus, they’re easy enough to swap out for newer shots, though I think it’s really cute to have pictures of everyone at various stages of their lives. And when my kiddo was smaller having photos of family up ‘reminded’ him who everyone was as our family doesn’t live super close by.

    • Moonstone

      One of the smartest women I ever worked with mentioned that she grew up with a world map in the kitchen because her mom thought that was a good way to passively learn about other countries. Since then I have always had map artwork in the kitchen — sometimes an old-timey one, sometimes a modern one. It also reinforces happy travel memories.

    • ATL

      I have a letterpress print of a bunch of different drawings of coffee mugs. It’s “food themed” but not in your face. I LOVE it.

      • Anon

        Yes, I realize it’s often bad feng shui, but I also like “modern still life” type art or photos in kitchens.

    • Anonymous

      I have a series of three flower prints. They make me happy and blend with my colour scheme in the kitchen. I took some pictures at the botanical garden when I was in Christchurch a few years ago. They turned out great (despite taking them with my old iPhone!) and I was just thinking of swapping the ones I have up with a few of these. They would add a memory to the mix.

    • Senior Attorney

      Our kitchen opens to the family room so most of the art is just… art. But we do have a small oil painting of an apple that I just love.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I’ve bought photography prints of some of our favorite places from Etsy for our kitchen. Buy it in a standardized frame size so you don’t have to get a custom frame and it’s pretty low cost.

    • No Problem

      Growing up we always had a big corkboard to pin various things…shopping lists, reminders notices from various organizations, calendars from various orgs/social groups (think Sunday School calendar, sports practice/game schedules), and a regular calendar. Could be a good practical item if you don’t have a space for this already and/or don’t want to just magnetize it all to your fridge. Also a good space to put new baby announcements, greeting cards, a few fun photos, etc.

      My current kitchen also has a wall mounted spice rack to save precious pantry and countertop space.

    • Anonymous

      I had a personalized menu from my birthday dinner at a favorite restaurant framed.

    • Sloan Sabbith

      I have two 8 by 11ish canvas paintings of cafes- one that’s clearly supposed to be France and one that’s clearly supposed to be Italy. Got them at Goodwill. Maybe cliche but I love them so eh.

    • SF in House

      We have a series of framed maps in our kitchen: city where each of us was born, city where we met, city where we now live. We once rented an apartment that had one of their favorite recipes painted on a kitchen wall. I kind of love the prints of the patents for the Kitchen Aid mixer: https://www.etsy.com/market/kitchen_aid_patent

    • Anon

      I have a framed map of the wine regions of France, because I always forget where they are.

    • Anan

      We have a tray that we hang in our kitchen. We do use the tray, but it is so beautiful that we didn’t want to just put it on the shelf when not using. So it was a practical way to put something nice up. I also have some trivets that I am contemplating putting up hooks and storing on our wall too.
      The one painting we have in our kitchen we didn’t buy specifically for the kitchen- we just really loved it and after we brought it home, we tried a bunch of walls and the kitchen was the perfect place for it. So maybe just find art that you like?

    • Edna Mazur

      I’ve been collecting handwritten recipes from important people in my life (grandmas, mom, mom-in-laws, aunties) and framing those for my kitchen art. Bonus points if the recipes are meaningful in some ways. Extra bonus points if you make the recipe a lot. Don’t have to remember where you stashed the recipe, it’s just on the wall.

    • Mal

      I love vintage food ads framed in my kitchen from eBay. I have old Jello ones which are great!

    • AnonTechie

      not sure if it is cliche.. (and honestly dont care because it makes me happy every day!) but my open kitchen has handpainted caffeine molecule and ethanol molecule marking where the coffee and wine are.
      So thats a long winded way of saying- maybe lean into your weird? I’d also have loved to have something like the illustrations from samin nosrat’s book

  5. Hazel

    This is my first holiday season together with my wife after getting married in June, and it’s also the first winter season for both of us with no possibility of visiting family or friends (pandemic + border closures). Christmas/New Year are important family holidays for both of us, and we’ve both been pretty sad about the prospect of spending the holidays in lockdown after not seeing our families for over a year.

    HOWEVER. Last weekend we bought a tiny 4-foot tree for our tiny condo, and this weekend we decorated it, and it’s amazing how much difference it makes. Just the act of decorating the tree was a great way of reliving good memories and a promise to make new traditions together. (And, after this year, we need every drop of serotonin we can get!)

    I’m interested in ways to keep that energy going — for those of who who are spending the holidays alone or just with those in your household, what activities are you looking forward to?

    • Anonymous

      Christmas movies with winter beers and appetizers for date nights. Driving around to look at lights. Make an event out of online Christmas shopping. I usually get a fancy peppermint mocha and get to work.

    • cbackson

      I have really been understanding this year why people through the centuries celebrated holidays focused around light during this season – the short cloudy days and the darkness have really been weighing on me. We’re Christian, so we’re going all-in on Advent (wreaths, calendars) and basically doing something fun for all of the Christmas-related holidays that fall between now and Dec 25th (we’re going to make St. Lucia buns and my stepdaughter will dress up; we’re going to celebrate St. Nicholas Day). We’re going to do some kind of astronomy-related activity for the winter solstice. Also, since our traditional holiday open house isn’t happening, we’re baking tons of cookies and dropping them off on friends’ doorsteps as surprises.

      We’ll do a big New Year’s Eve dinner and have the kids dress up and keep watch until midnight, and then we’ll do an Epiphany celebration with cake and maybe Three Kings costumes.

      This is a celebration-rich time of year and we’re leaning into it hard, basically.

      • Anon

        Commented below, but so much +1 to now understanding why nearly every culture has a light themed holiday this time of year. I’m fully, fully embracing both the light festivities as well as the multiple celebrations.

    • Anon

      I’m not usually very Christmasy (I enjoy the holiday season but I’m not one to decorate beyond a tree), but this year I’m going all in.

      I’ve been slowly buying additional decorations for my apartment, I have plans to do a Netflix party with some college friends and drink holiday drinks (probably mulled wine or spiked hot cocoa), I’m spending more on holiday gifts for my family than I usually do, I’m lighting candles every night (haven’t decorated yet, so this is in place of twinkle lights), will be watching / listening to more Christmas movies and music this year, and really just focusing on being cozy and enjoying the lights.

      As much as possible, I’ll be taking in the city’s Christmas lights, and whatever else they have safely going on.

    • Anon

      I’m trying to focus very hard on the little things. I’m viewing this year as potentially similar to my grandmothers’ experiences on the WW2 Homefront (obviously this year doesn’t hold a candle to my deployed grandfathers’ experiences) and so just trying to appreciate the little things and accept that things are different this year, but will be better in the future.

      Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas and I’ll Be Home For Christmas hit differently this year

      • Hazel

        We were listening to Christmas carols in the car yesterday and had to skip “I’ll Be Home for Christmas” — way too emotional, knowing we couldn’t be.

        • Anon

          I believe it was written about/for deployed soldiers in WW2, so that tracks.

          White Christmas is my favorite holiday movie, and they first scene is also going to hit differently this year.

    • Anon.

      We are German so we always celebrate Advent sundays (in a secularized way). We buy or make an advent wreath/table decoration with 4 candles, have some Christmas pastries (gingerbread cookies, stollen bread etc), with coffee or tea and light the candles every Sunday afternoon cuddled up under blankets.
      Also, we have an advent calendar.
      We also try to embrace the cold (we live in the Midwest). Wear your warmest layers, go for a nature walk, and then have hot chocolate when you come home, and maybe a hot bath at night.

    • AnonATL

      We are going all in on decor this year. We normally do a tree, but upgraded to a nicer fake one this year from our old starter tree.
      I’ll probably do something crafty on the weekends. Make my own garland or ornaments or something like that.
      Definitely baking holiday themed treats. Stollen is fun and takes a while. Christmas cut out cookies are good too.
      My husband had to keep me from setting up the tree this weekend, but day after Thanksgiving I get the green light to let Christmas explode in our house.

    • Anon

      I always buy my tree from a local high school fundraiser and they don’t start selling until the day after Thanksgiving, but I have been telling my boyfriend “I can’t wait to have a tree!” every single day for at least two weeks now. I put lights up outside and have been slowly bringing out other decorations inside as well.

      • Ellen

        This sounds familiar. Whenever I told Alan that I wanted something, he just ignored me and never got it for me, so I finally dumped him and now have no boyfreind at all. I am still glad I got rid of him b/c all he did was lay around all day and eat my food, and the s-x was really bad, and not worth all of the “cost” and energy I had to put up just to say to my freinds that I had a boyfreind. FOOEY on him!

    • Anon

      Christmas dishes from Thanksgiving dessert till January 1 – doesn’t have to be Spode, and maybe collect slowly, starting with some salad or accent plates this year.

      Maybe a new ornament you pick out together for each year you’re married.

      We have Christmas music going anytime we’re downstairs for the same period we have the Christmas China out. We have a collection of CDs from over the years, so it’s just about the only time we use our CD player all year.

      Specific room decor like Christmas themed throw pillows, candles, things on the mantle, etc.

      And don’t forget making pomanders from oranges and cloves. They’re fun to make and they smell amazing. https://www.almanac.com/content/how-make-pomander-balls

    • Anonymous

      In the Christmas holidays, when we were kids we had a special evening (occasionally New Year’s Eve but preferably not – my father was likely to be called out on NYE). We had hors d’oeuvres instead of dinner, by a log fire and candle lit, and played board games. My mother wore an evening dress and my two sisters and I wore her pre-war dresses consigned to our fancy dress box. The evenings are now some of my happiest childhood memories

  6. Linda Churma-Sumner

    I’ve had a few blouses like this in my time. Always felt good in them, especially silk, though none this expensive.
    Kamala’s victory outfit (and good vaccine news) has sent my mind wandering toward post-Covid dressing.
    Is it me or did K’s jackets shoulders seem a LITTLE TINY bit wider than we’ve been wearing?
    I’m going to go way out there and make a prediction that instead of continuing the super casual WFH look, more formal ,structured and pretty clothes will become popular for a while. How else will the fashion industry recoup the losses if we all just keep wearing what we’re wearing or pull out the closeted items we already own? Plus, many will have a desire to get out and shop.

    • Lily

      I could be off base, but my reaction to her victory speech suit was that it was not very well tailored (or tailored at all). It looked baggy to me. Her other suits have a more tailored look, generally.

      • Disco Janet

        I read on GoFugYourself that she would have been wearing body armour under the outfit ( the sad, sad world we are living in) which would explain why the cut was a bit looser.

        • Anonymous

          Really? Do guys do that? I know some police who wear BPVs and you can always tell that b/c of how they fit. [They often give you awfully correct posture — you really can’t slouch in them, but IIRC it can be hard to sit if you have a short torso (which I do)).]

          I lived in Arlington during the DC sniper times and actually thought about buying body armor then due to one of the shootings happening at my Home Depot. [Does anyone else remember that? Gas stations hung tarps so you wouldn’t be visible to a shooter and we had to pump gas behind them.]

          • PolyD

            Oh yes, I remember the sniper (was living in Silver Spring). I don’t recall tarps at the gas stations I went to, but I do remember putting the nozzle in my gas tank and then getting in my car and crouching down below the windows to wait for the tank to fill.

            Fun times.

          • Anon

            Replying to PolyD below: the sniper was arrested two blocks from my house, and had apparently been using the area as a base. I no longer live there, but I happened to drive by the area this past week and had shivery memories.

          • anon

            Unfortunately, female politicians face risks that male politicians do not. The FBI sends AOC lists of people who have made death threats against her so she can review them each morning.

          • Anon

            Man people (men, mostly) are so ducking triggered by AOC. Check out Twitter any time her name is mentioned, and sometimes not even mentioned. You get “I’m not taking political advice from a bartender” when the same people say the liberal elite are out of touch with their working class ways. She is treated HORRIBLY on social media and has a disproportionate share of the right wing news hysteria directed at her.

        • Anon

          Yes this is correct. Was also the case with the Aubergine debate suit.

          I feel that as she is VP, her clothing should be the least memorable thing about her. I’d rather focus on her effectiveness in the role.

      • anne-on

        I assumed that she was wearing a bulletproof vest and that they cut her suit to accommodate it. Sad, but the precautions would make perfect sense to me.

      • anonyK

        I thought the same. I liked the idea of the outfit but it looked oddly bulky and not well-tailored. Just saw Disco Janet’s post about body armor and that makes sense. White is not super forgiving when it comes to looking bulky, unfortunately, but I appreciated the idea of it.

  7. Anonymous

    How long is it reasonable to expect a yoga mat to last? I bought my lululemon mat about 2 years ago and LOVED how sticky it was. I tried to take good care of it, wiping it down after every class but the stickiness is basically gone. Is 2 years about normal? Any suggestions for a really good, sticky mat?

    • Monday

      Wiping down doesn’t work with LLL mats the way it does with others. You need to use soap and water and really “wash” it. I use dish soap and a surprising amount of water on mine, and then after drying for a few hours it’s like new. I’m sure there are videos online.

    • Anon

      I’ve had my Manduka mat for somewhere around 10-15 years, I can’t remember exactly but it’s been a while. Still in perfect condition.

      It was popular at some yoga studios to have a spray bottle of “homemade” cleaning solution to spritz your mat with and wipe it down – I wonder if the essential oils in those can build up on your mat.

    • Hildy J.

      I have a Jade that’s lasted longer than that and I also have a no name one that has lasted 20 years, but it’s not nearly as thick as the Jade, obviously. Once every few months I wash them in the washing machine.one of my closest friends is a yoga teacher with a studio in her house and she told me to do this. I use a LOT less detergent than I would for clothes and dry on cool. She has a house, and favorable weather, so she lets her mats dry outside.

    • anon

      If your primary concern is for the mat to be “sticky”, I would suggest trying a non-slip towel. I have been using the same yoga mat for 10y and for hygiene reasons, always used non-slip towel over studio mats. My towel is from Yoga Matters (not sure if they exist these days) and has tiny 3D dots across on one side and has a regular towel surface on the other side. That completely solved the issues with slippery mats for me.

    • MagicUnicorn

      I wash my mat in the shower every couple of months and the grippy nature seems much more obvious after that.

  8. Anon

    Honestly thought Kamala’s outfit was terrible. It did not flatter her figure and was “trying too hard” with the entire look. Hillary did the white pantsuit several times. Sarah Palin rocked the white blazer at her convention speech in 2008. Ivanka has sported the white pantsuit and white dress look many times. If you want to be a fashion icon, don’t copy everyone else.

    • Anonymous

      She wants to be the first female Vice President of the United States of America, not a fashion icon. This site is gross sometimes.

      • anon

        +1
        Also, she’s copying because she’s wearing a color that other people have also worn? A very common neutral with significance related to women’s suffrage??

    • pugsnbourbon

      Are you familiar with the suffragettes’ tradition of wearing white?
      (also slight LOL at the idea that Kamala is copying Ivanka)

      • Anonymous

        No, she apparently isn’t. This conversation is turning my stomach either way though.

      • Formerly Lilly

        Right. Is it:
        1. An awesome nod to the suffragette movement, or
        2. Copying other women including Ivanka.
        The subject in question has been elected to the second highest office in the land, is a former prosecutor, and is a confident, capable woman. Who on earth thinks the answer is number 2?

    • Anonie

      I doubt she is trying to be a fashion icon. I think she’s trying to be the first female Vice President of the United States :)

      (Granted, it would be naive not to acknowledge that Kamala is gorgeous and, sure, plenty of people will notice her looks and accompanying fashion sense.)

    • Anon

      I think only a particular kind of woman views their role in life as being a “fashion icon” and those aren’t the women I emulate or admire. She’s not a Kardashian.

      • anon

        Ok this isn’t right either. There’s nothing wrong with liking fashion or wanting to be a fashion icon.

        • Anon

          When you start analyzing Donald Trump and Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell, and for that matter, Doug Emhoff, for their fashion choices, we can say it’s just because you’re interested in fashion and it has nothing to do with politics. But I don’t recall any posts about this ever.

          • anon

            I don’t think we should be analyzing Kamala’s clothes. But I also don’t think it’s right to suggest that women who want to be a fashion icon are categorically not worth emulating or admiring. That’s what I am disagreeing with.

    • Anon

      Wearing white isn’t copying others, it’s an homage to the Suffragettes.

      And she’s not a fashion icon, she’s soon to be the #2 in our country

    • Anonymous

      Gosh, I hope she’s not trying to be a fashion icon. I do not want to go back to wearing pantsuits.

    • Anon

      Kamala has never been known for being a fashion icon. She’s known for her career and that’s it. She always looks professionally dressed and “takes care of herself” (as in exercises, uses minimal makeup and has her hair styled regularly). She has never tried to be or do more than that. If you want a political fashion plate, aim it at women who intend to make a statement with their fashion (Kyrsten Sinema for her avant garde clothing, Ilhan Omar and Deb Haaland for their religious and cultural fashions).

      • No Face

        I think this describes Kamala Harris really well, and it is what I aspire to. When I go to court, I want to look professional, appropriate, and relatively well-groomed. I do not care about being fashionable.

        • Anonymous

          +1. My goal for professional life. I don’t care about being sexually attractive or fashionable in that environment.

    • Anon

      Re: fashion icon. She’s obviously trying with that outfit and the press is obviously trying to make her one.

    • Anon

      I do agree the fit was odd and most likely because of body armor. That’s our world right now.
      No, I don’t think she wants to be a fashion icon, but women in public and highly visible positions do influence what we might see in stores. I think Jill Biden was wearing pantyhose with one dress.

    • Anon

      Trump really needs to refresh his wardrobe. That dark blue suit was not flattering to him at all! And Obama pulled it off so much better! Clinton rocked that look back in the 90’s. If he wants to be a fashion icon, don’t copy everyone else!

    • Anon

      I do not think Kamala is trying to be a fashion icon whatsoever. In my opinion, she has somehow (somewhat) avoided the plague of so many other female politicians, which is the constant chatter about their wardrobe and appearance. I feel like this is because she dresses fairly “masculine” and a bit boring. As a professional but also a bit of a girly-girl, I don’t really love that it takes a woman dressing masculine in order to have the public/media stop focusing on their wardrobe. But, I do think it’s refreshing that the public doesn’t seem to be so obsessed with Kamala’s appearance as is usual. And by gosh does she deserve the focus on her record and accomplishments… the lady is amazing!!

    • Anon

      So by this logic, Trump is copying ever other president because he wears navy and black suits and a tie.

      • Anon

        Gosh that is such a good point… I never thought of that. Thanks for pointing that out. (Though I will say I prefer to refer to the current president as the orange turd or something along those lines).

  9. Thank you

    I found a brining bag for my turkey, so I will not be using a hefty bag. Thanks to commenters for pointing out that brining bags (also: oven bags) exist.

    In my store, they were by the ziplocks and saran wrap and foil, not by the turkeys (which might have been helpful for us first-timers).

  10. Anon

    I am so frustrated. I have a white kitchen and it simply is not “in” and has not been for years. My built-in microwave is dying and my fridge is starting to go, but finding the right color, features, and size all together is impossible. I’m starting to see why people renovate their kitchens constantly.

    • Anonymous

      White kitchen as in appliances? Or cabinets? I think white cabinets are classic.

      If appliances, I hear you. My parents are on Team Almond and struggled to find a replacement almond fridge when their circa 1980-something fridge died. They did find one though.

    • Carrie

      Who are these people? On Instagram probably but not real people. Renovating a kitchen costs a small fortune.

      White is classic. Nothing wrong with it.

      No one in my circles re-does their kitchens constantly, and they are all doctors/lawyers/tech, but I guess not the uber rich. I actually think re-doing your kitchen to just match the trend of the day is destined for failure, and …. why? Are you selling it next week? If not, you should do what you like, ideally something a bit classic so you don’t have to renovate ever again.

      • Anon

        +1 Lots of different people renovating their kitchens does not mean that people are renovating their kitchens constantly.

    • Anon

      I find the constant renovation irritating and wasteful. Appliances don’t all have to match (I wouldn’t mix black and white, but stainless coordinates with either). In terms of finding things in stock, that seems difficult right now due to covid, and yes it’s very frustrating.

    • Anon

      White kitchens have been “in” for years. Is it the cabinetry style looking dated?

    • Anonymous

      I disagree. My mom is upset that her kitchen is out of style- it’s 25 years old! How do people expect to get more than 20 years out of such a utilitarian space? How long has it been since you redid your kitchen? Once every two decades or so is not a “constant” renovation, particularly if you’re just updating fixtures and countertops and backsplash.

      Anyway…all that aside I’m not sure that it matters if your appliances all match. If your microwave is above the stove, it is probably already looking dated.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        My kitchen is 60 years old aside from most appliance (excepting the dishwasher, which is from 1963) and it’s doing just fine :-)

        I think renovating on a 20-ish year time span isn’t absolutely crazy, but yeah, your kitchen should absolutely last that long and it isn’t environmentally responsible to renovate just because it’s out of style if it’s in solid condition. I think we’ve all grown far too used to seeing magazine and Instagram interiors and it almost feels like some sort of deprivation or as though we should be ashamed of a perfectly functional space.

        • SC

          +1. DH and I are changing the floor plan of our kitchen because it is not functional at all. Seriously, I have no idea what the previous owners were thinking when they renovated this kitchen, but it’s awful. We’re working with a contractor to keep the cabinets and countertops, which are good quality but not in style (circa 2003).

        • Duckles

          Same. A friend just gut remodeled her entirely functional, probably mid-2000s kitchen for aesthetics and the waste kills me. 1) do your cabinets hold things? 2) are your appliances functional? 3) can you comfortably prepare meals for the number of people who live in your household? Unless one of those is “no”, I am side-eyeing anything other than superficial changes real hard.

      • Anon

        My car is 20 years old and works perfectly well. I’m shocked at the idea of a kitchen needing to look “current.” Clothes and makeup should be current. Kitchens should be useful and, if you can afford it, pretty.

    • The original Scarlett

      I also think white is classic in cabinets, if you’re looking at appliances, check out the Big Chill line – they come in a zillion fun colors and have different retro styling. You can use your appliances as a method of updating your kitchen.

      • Anon

        This is what I was thinking too. Specifically I was thinking some of the Big Chill colors would look just fine alongside white appliances.

    • Anonymous

      If the white refers to appliances, pick another finish and start buying your appliances in that finish. If the white refers to the cabinets and counter and they are in good shape, can you just add painted walls in a color you like? The white is classic.

    • Anonymous

      This is why I’m getting solid wood cabinets (box and all) for my upcoming Reno. I literally never want to have to touch my kitchen again, nor do I want future owners to either. I don’t support renovating with laminate/foil etc due to the planned obsolescence and environmental costs.

    • AnonATL

      We have white appliances if that is what you are referring to, and I do think they look dated. We are slowly replacing them as they die, but I’m not going to swap them while they still work. Currently, we have a stainless refrigerator, white oven, and white dishwasher. I think the combo of stainless and white looks fine for now. I wouldn’t sell my house that way though.
      Try to pick a big brand and you can choose different levels of models but their stainless steel should match. Stay away from the new trendy darker greys and go with a standard stainless. It will be much easier to match.

  11. Pear Shape - Outerwear Recs

    Pear/hippy ladies: I’m on the hunt for two pieces of outerwear.

    (1) a vest, ideally the Patagonia micro puff vest or Los Gatos vest – I’ve tried them but find the bottom waste band is super snug on my hips. If I get a size that fits my hips, I’m swimming in it up top. I tried one at Athleta this weekend and had the same issue.

    (2) a jacket that is somewhere between my Eddie Bauer Girl on the Go and my Canada Goose. I’m in Boston and I need something insulated and in between the two. I’m nervous about the sizing issue that I mentioned in #1 above.

    Any recs? Not married to Patagonia at all, but it was on the brain as I was thumbing through the REI catalogue I got in the mail. Open to spending some money if I can somehow get what I want/need!

    • Anon

      I love Patagonia but Patagonia does not love me. As a pear, I find their stuff does not fit me well.

    • Curious

      My puffy vest is from Costco and fits my 40″ hips (vs 38″ bust, 32″ waist, 36″ belly) great!

    • Ribena

      I’m an extreme pear and have a Gap Primaloft vest which I love – it doesn’t have a waist band at all though.

    • Silly Valley

      I’d try brands like Lands’ End, Eddie Bauer, and LL Bean. I know Chico’s has had puffer vests too, although probably more on the lighter/fashion side, not as warm.

    • anne-on

      It’s $$$ but I’d try Barbour. Their Beadnell with the vest zipped in is very warm and I find their cuts SO much more flattering than Patagonia.
      Otherwise have you tried Soia & Kyo? I find them just as warm (if not warmer) than Canada Goose. I went to the Pru last year and tried on the Canada Goose puffer in the ‘freezer’ and still found the Soia & Kyo down parka warmer.

      • Anonymous

        I have the Barbour Wray vest and it’s much better in the hips than Patagonia was.

    • Anonymous

      Try Eddie Bauer cirruslite. I have a couple from this line and they fit my pear shape surprisingly well. I wear the hip length parka until it’s gets really cold.

    • anon

      If you’re willing to spend that much, why not buy the vest you like in the larger size and get it tailored?

    • Anon

      Size up to fit your hips. If you’re worried about figure flattery, buy one with a drawstring waist.

    • HW

      I can’t wear Patagonia because of the hip fit. For (2) I have a three-in-one jacket from Columbia which I LOVE. It fits well and zips up from the bottom when I sit in it, which is super helpful especially this year.

  12. Anonymous

    Does anybody have a good cloth mask that has some detailed information available about how exactly it is made, including (ideally) data from testing? My partner told me that he was concerned the random masks we bought from Etsy might not be very protective – they feel a bit flimsy. I want for us both to understand what we’re using and be comfortable when we do have to go out and would appreciate any recommendations. Cases are spiking again here (like everywhere) and a solid mask seems like an easy way to be safer.

    • waffles

      I’m definitely no expert but I would think that the fit of a cloth mask is as important as the construction.

    • Anonymous

      In Canada the recommendation is now for triple layer masks and make sure you are wearing them tight to your face. The CBC show Marketplace did a run down on different masks so you might find that helpful.

    • anne-on

      I think Brooks Brothers has information on their masks and their certification for particle reduction on their website. Those are the ones I wear for any visits to doctors/dentists/or if I need to go to more than 1 place at a time. For general walking the dog/grocery runs (lower risk activities) I go with whichever mask I find most comfortable.

    • Anonymous

      Can you blow out a candle while wearing your mask? You can also get masks with filter pockets to add an extra layer.

    • Anonymous

      Nope and this is silliness. No one is doing detailed testing on this particular cloth mask versus that particular cloth mask.

      • Anonymous

        What’s the point of this contribution? Do something better with your time.

      • Anon

        Maybe not particular cloth masks, but there have been tests of cloth masks generally (triple ply silk performed very well!).

      • Nesprin

        That’s entirely not true- there’s been a huge outpouring of work on this subject. General rule of thumb: if you can blow out a candle thru the mask, it’s too thin.

      • Duckles

        +1. If you’re concerned about protection, and not just compliance, use N95s. There is way too much variability in homemade (and non-medical-supplier-made) masks.

    • Alina

      I like the Athlete masks with a filter that you can buy on Amazon. They fit well and are thicker than the random masks you buy off etsy. You can also get kn95 masks relatively easily nowadays, and they are not used by healthcare workers so you are not hurting them.

    • Anon

      I get the ones that are at least double layer with filter pocket and put in a pm2.5 filter in between. If I’m really concerned about exposure, I put on a medical mask underneath and use the cloth mask as a fashion statement/extra layer of protection.

    • Anon

      Buy from a scrubs company, like Mandala or Figs. But I think you guys are being too anxious about this particular thing.

      • Anonymous

        Really, you got that from a request for a mask recommendation? People are so quick to accuse OMGANXIETY for every little thing now.

    • anon

      If you are worried about protection, the thing to do is to wear some kind of medical mask and use cloth masks over and/or under so that you can reuse the medical mask. There is some basic information on cloth masks (need to fit closely, have multiple layers, no valve, no buffs or bandanas that are open at the bottom), but with so many brands and styles I think you’d be hard pressed to find significant testing of any particular mask.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks everyone – I’ll look for some triple-layer masks and check out Brooks Brothers. I’ll also do a candle test on our existing ones!

  13. Northern Virginia Q

    My MIL has entered hospice (not for COVID) and it’s likely that she won’t make it. Has anyone used a service they could recommend in Northern Virginia where they clean out the contents of a house (especially if there is a lot in a very moldy basement and a full-house attic and an attic over a garage, so not the easiest or pleasantest of ways to empty a house)? We are several states away and my sense is that the siblings may grab any keepsakes quickly, but most of it is not donate-able. [And the house is likely a tear-down — I think you still need to empty out teardowns though.] This could be a month-long task of contention in normal times, but due to corona, the siblings just want to sell before they need to insure a vacant house, pay winter heating and electric bills, and pay more property taxes.

    And rant: it is important if you need to call an ambulance that you have a path for the stretcher. And if it involves stairs, the stairs should not have stuff on them. And carrying out a person on a stretcher is going to be a challenge in any event, but especially if you are not < 200 pounds, which is really, really common, so one family member will not be able to help you to a lower level and any injury will probably be severe and result in an ambulance to the hospital and a stay in a rehab facility; but you are afraid of that b/c they may remove you from the home so you keep quiet about some falls until you have The Bad One]. And if you can no longer do stairs but living in the TV room, but your only full bath is upstairs, maybe it is time to move into an apartment or consider a age-in-place addition of a shower downstairs? And a closet for clothes? Hoarding + aging + house you can't keep up with (like IDK when the last time the furnace filters were changed) just feels like such a disaster waiting to happen. I am mentally planning to move to a 1BR flat apartment upon my widowhood so no one will find me a week after this happens to me.]

    • Anonymous

      Maybe some compassion for a woman literally on her death bed? Instead of a rant about how she lived, probably because of real fears and mental health struggles?

      • Anonymous

        I’m sure that is why OP is venting to strangers — you can’t really even vent to a spouse about this stuff.

        As a parent of a younger child, I think of all I do to help my child. And it really isn’t s*xy at all, but death planning is probably the best gift you can give them once they are out of school. My grandmother and her husband really walked the walk (any time you visited, they tried to make you take a possession with you), bought planned burials (they each were buried with their original spouses who died first and who they had kids with; no drama, it’s just what they wanted), transferred the house to their children so that they could legally make decisions about it, had all of their wills, POAs, etc. in order. After they each died (< 1 year apart), there was very little to empty out and then the house was sold. There was no drama or hiding (a child generally went to each doctor appointment and stopped by daily — this isn't an option for everyone but had family not been close, they would have had to move to supportive housing). Also: cooking was banned years ago other than microwaving.

        The otherside of the family has a hoarding house that a new hoarding relative living in it (the ne'er do well who would otherwise be homeless) and it is deteriorating and the family member who inherited the house can't use it and had to pay for its upkeep as it deteriorates.

        • Anon

          +1 to the sentiment that planning for your death is really morbid and tough, but an incredible gift to those that survive you. I posted about this on Thursday(?) last week. We lost a family member a week ago after a fast and terrible illness. Planning his services last week brought out some horrific family dynamics. Things were said and done, and people were hurt in such a way that my formerly loving and close family may never be the same.

          Also, if you can’t vent about this stuff here, where can you? Please offer the OP some grace.

        • anon

          +1. My parents have downsized their house to a condo. They have a will and medical directives, and they’ve given me copies. About 10 years ago, they had me meet their lawyer and their CPA. Every year or two, they send me a file and CD with updated paperwork. Before they go on long trips, my dad sends me the master password to his password manager. It’s all a bit morbid, but I appreciate their efforts.

          My FIL is a hoarder. His house is falling apart. Also, it’s expensive and not paid off, even though he’s 68 and about to retire. He is secretive about his finances, even with his children. My impression is that he has money but is disorganized. He has two biological children from his first marriage, and is remarried, with two step-children. Apparently, he and his wife signed some kind of prenup, but she’s not happy with it. Also, I don’t trust my BIL not to create discord and chaos if money is involved. It’s going to be a real sh*t show when FIL dies.

        • Anon

          My last two grandparents (one from my mom’s side, one from my dad’s side) died 6 months apart when I was in my early 20s. They were polar opposites in how they had planned (or not) for their death, and it was a great lesson.

          My mom’s dad had downsized years ago from a four bedroom suburban house to a one-bedroom condo in a retirement community (my aunt bought his old house from him, which was a fun way for the house to stay in the family). As his health declined, he was able to move to the medical wing of the community and go on hospice there. Cleaning out a one-bedroom apartment was a breeze. When he had moved to the retirement community, his kids split up who would get what (some was immediate with the downsizing, others was decided upon then but they didn’t get until after he died). He had planned his funeral, down to the hymns and readings. He had pre-paid the funeral home for his cremation, and was burried in the church cemetery with his wife. All legal/financial/medical things were decided upon decades before they were needed, and updated if needed (like when my grandmother died).

          My dad’s mother was the opposite. Was not in great health, but was doing pretty well and had a very sudden decline from “healthy” to in a coma/the ICU over the course of hours, and then from the ICU to death in about three weeks. She was a hoarder and her six bedroom house was a mess. Her legal and financial affairs were a mess. There was a lot of family infighting, partially due to everything being up in the air and partially due to the family dynamic she established years ago. No medical directives/PoA/living will set up. Several complicated financial situations, not clearly laid out. No directive for a funeral.

          Obviously, watching someone’s decline and death is extremely painful for the remaining family members. Truly, the greatest gift you can give your loved ones is to have your affairs in order before that happens. Obviously financial/legal/medical is the most important, but the little stuff (memorial/funeral plans, downsized house, not a lot of extra stuff, etc) helps a TON too.

      • Anonymous

        I hear what you’re saying but I am fine with people saying stuff here because they know they shouldn’t think or say it in real life. So much stress, OP! We are thinking of you!

      • Anonymous

        My in-laws are hoarders too, and I really feel for OP, I might even post a similar many myself when it comes time to deal with the mounds of stuff. I don’t like the line of ‘compassion’ as an excuse to be accommodating to people’s bad behaviour. Death is not a surprise and it’s pretty rude to pretend it doesn’t happen and foist that burden upon your relatives.

    • Carrie

      Sorry to hear about your MIL.

      Try to remember…. aging, and dying…. is hard. Maybe you are on top of things and this experience will change you forever and your aging will be perfect and your kids will be happy with all of your choices…… But that is not the norm. And people are different. People aren’t perfect. Finances are different. Extended family support is different. Hoarding tends to be associated with mental illness and sometimes progresses to dementia. You describe some tension among the kids so who knows what other issues are at play.

      I take care of aging and severely disabled family members and understand your frustration completely.

      But I strongly recommend you stay out of this completely. Let the siblings sort it out.

    • Anon

      Gosh, this is a tough situation. Caring Transitions (.com) is an estate sale company with a local branch that specializes in making things easy on the family, though I don’t know if they deal with homes with mold problems. But worth a look.

      • PNW

        My husband works for a Caring Transitions franchise, and they do not do mold/hoarding cleanouts themselves but will refer and find someone who will. I’m sure it varies by location.

    • anonshmanon

      I’m sorry, OP, this is all a whole bundle of stress! Hope you hang in there!

    • anon a mouse

      Are you anticipating that there will be things for an estate sale? If so, Caring Transitions or Sales by Gale can do those services. If you are expecting to sell the property to a developer, then I don’t think you necessarily have to empty it; they would just adjust the price for a sale. If it’s in a hot area it could be sold as-is through a realtor, even with everything in it, at a slightly lower price. (Some people in my neighborhood recently bought a house that was packed to the gills with stuff. They got a great price on the house but had to rent dumpsters to empty it. They discovered a trove of near-mint MCM furniture covered in the basement and ended up selling it to cover the other costs.)

      • Anonymous

        OP here — I really don’t think that there will be any estate sale pieces. One sibling will probably take the china and things like that. The mold / dust situation in the house to me means anything upholstered should be tossed. [Like I never met my FIL because he died 25 years ago. But all of his clothes are still there, which is just so, so sad. These people all love each other but maybe don’t show it in ways that are optimal.] The walking grief is so bad, and the constant vigilance of what any phone call could mean, especially if from an unknown number (and especially if from a known number). [And there is some drama — there are two local siblings and spouse is shocked at how they “let” things deteriorate as they never lost access to the house, but they are very anxious people who really have not left home since March. An upside of corona is that no one wants to fight over the stuff — they just want it to disappear.]

        [I think that the plan will be that we go for one final trip at some point, put remotely-programmable locks on one or two doors to deal with any realtors and house-emptying people remotely.]

        • Anon

          Instead of “they are very anxious people” try “they are very cautious people” when you’re talking about different levels of covid precautions.

          • Anon

            You don’t know her family. She can use the word she thinks is most appropriate.

    • Anon

      I’m so sorry.

      My family went through something similar with my grandfather. It sucks and then having to deal with the aftermath of hoarding makes it that much worse.

    • Anon

      I’m sorry, this is awful. I too have a hoarder IL who entered a care facility unwillingly, and at this point it looks like the state is going to take his house without the kids being allowed to retrieve anything, even worthless mementos. Make a will and PoA, people.

    • anne-on

      I’m so sorry. Both sets of parents have a lot of ‘stuff’ with one side being closer to proper hoarding. Despite having to deal with weeks of clean out/sorting when their own parents died they’ve refused to pare down/update wills/make copies of medical wishes. It is a disaster happening in slow motion and nothing makes you feel less powerful.
      Therapy if you can afford/access it has been super helpful for me. And venting ‘out’ (ie – don’t complain to your spouse or his siblings who are processing the death of a parent) may allow you to offer more compassion and support to your spouse while dealing with all of this very difficult stuff (literally and figuratively).

    • Anon

      Hugs. That’s a lot.

      Do NOT let siblings “grab any keepsakes” quickly. Your MIL may have instructions in her estate plan for who gets what, and even if she doesn’t, people should not be removing potentially valuable items from her home during probate.

      • Seventh. Sister

        Unfortunately, that is sometimes easier said than done. And some of the people in my family with the grabbiest hands were the ones who had interacted the least with the elderly relative. Example: my cousin’s awful husband, who had probably met my grandparents three times but chewed out my mother for (allegedly!) throwing away a bunch of WWI memorabilia of dubious value because “he likes old war stuff.” A-hole.

    • Anonymous

      I’m sorry you’re getting snark for your rant. You are entirely correct. Aging is the worst.

      We are dealing with a milder version of this now with my 94 y/o grandma…but the kicker is that as my 65 year old mom complains about everything (finances, aging in place, refusal to acknowledge decline, etc) in her mind, she shows 100% certainty of doing the exact same thing!

      Thinking of you & your family during these hard times.

    • Anonymous

      Please stay far away from this problem and don’t say any of this to your spouse. If he is saying it, you can listen and acknowledge his feelings and not add to it.
      I get it. I asked my father to consider a one-story home when he recently moved. And despite my spending many days packing and organizing with my mother, she held onto way too much stuff when she also recently moved. But it is too late now and you are only going to make a bad situation feel worse.

    • Anonymous

      The home care organization I sit on the board of does deep cleaning for some hoarding situations, so try talking to the social worker in staff of the facility the person is in to get some recommendations like that.

      And I know this is hard. One of my parents passed away a few months ago. The paper kept was incredible. I am also now seeing that the other parent is trying to be fiercely independent so it’s going to be a challenge cleaning out the house and keeping a closer eye on things. I try to remember that I am also independent and not the best at getting rid of things and to bring some empathy and grace to the situation.

    • anon

      I’m so sorry. I was in a similar situation and used Wise Moves (https://wisemoves.net/).

      The house was in awful condition and they emptied it out safely, quickly, and as discreetly as possible. These were my top goals, so it was overall a success.

      They were able to ship me some sentimental items, but didn’t save some items I thought would be easy to find. If I had to do again, I would ask for a call with the person managing the crew on site ahead of time to talk through my written instructions on what to salvage.

    • Anon

      I’m so sorry, OP. Sending lots of virtual hugs. My aging parents are hoarders and I’m so worried about dealing with similar situations.

    • Anon

      The thing about the stretcher is really important. My aging parents have dangerous front stairs (bricks that are breaking) that they haven’t bothered fixing because they can just use the other door. The other door has a narrow hallway made narrower by a microwave cart and trash cans as well as a kitchen table that juts out into the hallway.

      When my dad had to go to the hospital in an ambulance, they had to pull a bunch of furniture into the middle of the kitchen to get the stretcher through. It added a lot of stress and took time. Yet, my parents still have everything exactly the same as it was that day.

    • CPA Lady

      I work with a lot of estate clients and estate lawyers.

      If this is a true hoarding situation (as in there will likely be mold, insect infestations, will be harmful to the health of the person cleaning it up, etc.) there are companies that deal with that. Goog le “hoarding clean up” in that area and something will come up. They will get suited up in hazmat suits and throw it all away safely.

      If it is a situation where it’s a ton of knickknacks, doilies, and clutter on every surface but not true hoarding, then you want an estate sale company. I am not in your area, but you should be able to get a recommendation from an estate lawyer in the area. Estate sale companies will also bring a dumpster and throw out a bunch of stuff and sort out any personal paperwork and other items like that. Not sure if her will will be probated, but whichever lawyer handles that if it is should be able to give you recommendations based on her situation– e.g. they’ll be able to suggest a mom and pop type business if it’s going to be more of an elaborate yard sale than a fancy estate sale.

  14. Anonymous

    For those who’ve followed closely — how come all the guidelines for the holidays are don’t gather at all, rather than stay in for a full 14 days and then gather as you wish. I feel like those were the guidelines for combining households earlier and I know people who did it — bought food for 14 days, didn’t so much as get a delivery (I guess because they live in places where you have to go get the delivery like from an apartment office/doorman). Is it just that they don’t trust people could or would do this? Obviously it only works for people in direct driving distance because going to an airport after 14 days would defeat the purpose and only works for people who are work from home. But I’m kind of surprised this is no longer an option and can’t figure out why except maybe your college age kid would say yeah I never saw anyone but if it doesn’t count that my dorm neighbor stood in my doorway and chatted with me for a hour/day to pass the time.

    • NY CPA

      I think they just don’t trust people to do it properly. I started my quarantine this past Friday, and other than doing my laundry in the basement (I’ve never seen another person in the basement at the same time as me), I am not leaving my apartment until Thanksgiving day. I also only went out 1 day in the week preceeding that. I feel fine about this, even with a very high risk family member who I will be seeing on Thanksgiving.

    • Anonymous

      It’s probably the trust thing. I know a LOT of people who are “quarantining” – except for going to the store and to visit their “bubble friends.”

    • Anonymous

      Because I think when they were saying this back in the summer more people were just sticking to their own households. Now it seems like most people in my area have bubbles or pods or whatever, so you risk people NOT shutting down those pods and being like oh I did 14 days at home, I only saw my pod. So now great aunt Sue who lives alone and sees no one because someone leaves groceries on her door step is exposed to you + your pod and oh yeah your pod mate didn’t happen to mention that her husband had to go into work a few times last week and then while he was there he ended up grabbing a drink with a coworker but NBD because it’s the first time he’s done that since March and it was only 20 min etc.

      • Anonymous

        Plus I think more people are back to the office now — even part time or a few days a week — than they were in June. So between that + everyone having a pod, there is just a LOT more contact that people would have to cut out for 14 days and most people wouldn’t do it or wouldn’t do it all the way.

      • Anon

        +1 you’re only as quarantined as the least careful member of your pod.

        And people lie about how careful they’re being all the time.

        “I haven’t left home in two weeks” (except you know, the grocery store and drinks outside with my neighbor, and going to CVS to get a prescription, and I had to drop that package off at UPS, and my teenage son goes over to his girlfriends house all the time etc etc)

    • Cat

      Probably because they don’t trust people. This is what my family is doing (just seeing one set of parents for TG so it’s only a two-household event).

    • Thanks, it has pockets!

      I think they know that no matter what guidelines they put out, people will push those guidelines, or find some way to do reckless stuff and then defend themselves by saying “well we followed the rules, so shut up!” So they figure that by putting out really strict guidelines, some people will still break them a little bit, but people will probably make safer choices than if the guidelines were loose or nonexistent. It’s a bit like speed limits, they post a speed limit of 25 knowing a lot of drivers will probably go 30-35, but that’s still better than the 40-45 they’d be going if the speed limit were 35.

      • anon

        +1. That’s my thought too, where WA state just banned all indoor gatherings of all sizes for 4 weeks. I think they expect people to break those rules, but perhaps act less recklessly than they would without that ban. The Governor went quickly from imploring people to stay home to mandating it.

        • Anonymous

          Some people also don’t really use their own brains when it comes to this pandemic. My best friend’s boss (in Washington) just sent out an email asking if people want to do a Christmas party at her house or whether they’d rather go to a restaurant. As soon as the new mandate came from the governor, she changed her tune and switched it to a virtual event. She couldn’t get to good decision-making on her own, but will generally listen when directly told to do something by someone in authority.

          • anon

            That’s what I really don’t understand. Even people who, in theory, should know better think that the guidelines don’t apply to them. I have completely run out of grace and sympathy for people who want to live like a pandemic isn’t happening. In my state, the situation is dire, doctors and nurses are begging and pleading for people to stay home, and our governor won’t do the most simple thing possible (mask mandate).

          • Thanks, it has pockets!

            Yeah I don’t know who’s worse, people who are denying that COVID is real and masks and distancing are necessary, or the people who frequently stress the importance of wearing a mask and staying home but then seem to just do whatever they want, and justify it with “well yeah but *we’re* being careful so it’s okay.”

          • LaurenB

            That’s easy, the people who aren’t wearing masks or social distancing are indeed worse than the people who take it seriously but maybe only do it 95% right instead of 100%.

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I think it’s partially a trust thing, and partially because many (most?) households involve a work/school/daycare/other outside interaction that are hard or impossible to stop for 14 days. I have to go in to work once a week at this point, and there’s no real workaround. I think my employer will likely be changing that this week, but that’s too late for Thanksgiving.

    • Anonymous

      I haven’t seen this advice, but I think the situation with hospital capacities is so severe that no one should take even minimal risks over the holidays.

    • Anonymous

      Because it didn’t work out the first time, people did not quarantine as required. Most people did a sort of faux limitation of exposure which was ineffective and gave a false sense of security.

    • Seventh. Sister

      Honestly, I don’t think most people can do a real 14-day quarantine and “gather as you wish” in my city would mean Thanksgiving family parties with dozens of relatives, if not a cool hundred. People in LA have huge extended families and it’s pretty common for people to gather for all holidays in big groups, sometimes outside but often not outside.

      We are doing a Thanksgiving that complies with the rules, but I sort of wish my in-laws would get more paranoid and not come over. Of course, their concern over COVID would never trump being inconvenienced or spending a dime…

  15. cara

    Where would you go to get a poster laminated? I have a signed poster I want to preserve and the local fedex/kinkos is saying I would have to leave it there overnight – these have a lot of sentimental value to me and I’d rather just laminate it then and there rather than leave it somewhere.

    • Anon

      Oooh don’t laminate it! Frame it! I don’t think laminating a keepsake is a good idea.

    • anon

      You can laminate on demand at Lakeshore Learning or possibly other education supply sources, but I agree that framing is likely a better solution for preservation.

    • anon

      If you wouldn’t leave it overnight, do not have it laminated! Laminator machines are the worst and jam up all the time. You should never run anything valuable through them.

    • LaurenB

      If you had it framed, you’d have to leave it some place overnight. Why so distrustful?

    • Anon

      Go to a framing store. They know what they’re doing. A guy whose primary job is taping up boxes using the laminator for the second time in his life is an accident waiting to happen.

  16. Dog Portrait Rec

    Slightly sad question on this monday: does anyone have a recommendation of an artist on Etsy or similar to get a pet portrait?
    A dear friend lost their very old dog this morning, and I’d like to have a photo of doggo turned into a watercolor portrait or similar. Also accepting recommendations for other “pet memory” gifts. Dog was adopted, but not from a shelter or rescue that I could donate to in his memory.

  17. Anon

    My mattress pad is worn out, and I’ve stumbled on the idea of a heated one. I’m always cold, but never found a comfortable heating blanket that didn’t slip, crackle, or come only in itchy wool. Is having the heat underneath better? Are the wires uncomfortable?

    • brokentoe

      We were given one of these for a gift – I thought it was stupid and put it away. A couple years later, we bought a cabin and I figured it might be OK during the winter. It was a game changer. There’s nothing better than getting into a bed that’s already warm! You don’t feel the wires at all. We would heat up the bed and then turn it off or down very low for the rest of the night. It’s also nice that it has dual controls so if you’re sleeping with someone, you can adjust for preference. Buy one – you sound like the perfect candidate!

    • Justme

      I got my heated mattress pad a few years back on rec from SIL…Love it. I turn on 15 minutes before bed time and it warms wonderfully, a few minutes after I get in bed ( I usually am reading for a bit) I turn off. I do not feel any wires.
      I am a cold person too and this is one of my favorite purchases.

    • Anonymous

      Yes, heated mattress pads are wonderful. I also got a new heated blanket from JCPenny last year that is so soft. They have improved a lot!

    • BeenThatGuy

      I LOVE my heated mattress pad. I actually use the heated pad with a regular mattress pad over it so we don’t feel any wires.

    • Anon

      I love mine. I don’t feel the wires, but I do hit the “plug” part if I am scrunched down in the center of the bed. As with a regular pad, I recommend going for cotton over polyester. Look for one with a preheat setting and automatic turnoff after a set number of hours. The heated mattress pad lets me keep my heat low because I will instantly be warm once I hit the bed. I usually turn mine off when I am ready to go to sleep, unless it is super cold, and then I turn it to a very low setting. So great!

  18. Thanks, it has pockets!

    I follow Captain Awkward, and today her blog mentions that Vice has a whole series of articles on how to navigate the holidays during this weird year – including how to have a fun solo holiday, how to talk to your partner about where to spend the holidays, how to tell your family you’re not coming, etc. I’ll link it in the comments, but you could also search for “Happy” “Holidays” 2020 Vice – that should do the trick. Seems like there’s something in that series for everyone.

  19. Bathroom art

    The kitchen art question reminded me…should I be doing anything different in terms of framing to have something hang in a bathroom? I have a very large bathroom (probably like 13 by 6 feet) with good ventilation, but still worry about humidity with art prints. Or am I being too paranoid?

    • Anon

      Not too paranoid. My solution as someone who moves frequently was always to hang something cheap in a cheap frame, but humidity is definitely a concern with real art and real framing.

    • Anon

      I have a tiny bathroom with terrible ventilation and I haven’t noticed any problems with the prints I have framed.

    • Senior Attorney

      I’ve never put anything super valuable in a bathroom, but I’ve done framed lithographs and photographs and never had any issues.

    • Jules

      I just replaced some framed prints (from Etsy) that had been in my bathroom for a long time (in old house with ex-H and in new house). The prints actually were fine, but the wood frames were showing some damage from the humidity. I bought photos from Society6 that are printed on metal; the images really pop, and I’m hoping the metal lasts a long time (but I’ve only had them a few months, so we’ll see).

    • Anon

      I’ve never had a problem, but at least with prints they’re cheap and replaceable. I wouldn’t put original artwork in a bathroom.

  20. Poshmark Help?

    Anyone have any tips for selling on Poshmark? I know about sharing my items in Posh Parties and I’ve priced my items based on what other sellers have priced their identical or similar items at, but I’m not getting much traction.
    (Apologies if this has come up recently here and feel free to link me – I haven’t been able to read the comment sections much lately.)

    • CHL

      Sometimes you just have to wait! I’ve had things sell after 6 months – if you want to move it fast, price it super cheap, but other times it’s just waiting for the right match to come along.

    • Anon

      I offered deals when people liked my items and that’s where most of my sales came from. And I had to accept that I was going to get a lot less money than I would have expected for everything.

      • Anonymous

        Same. I make private offers as soon as I see somebody has liked an item. That’s how I get most of my sales. And also … sales are just super slow right now.

    • Monday

      Do a search for the same items you’re selling, but only those marked as “sold.” The prices shown will be the prices people actually paid for them, which is often a lot lower than initial asking prices.

      As mentioned by 12:22, people usually overestimate (often by a lot) how much their items are worth, market-wise. There’s even research on this–apparently everyone over-values their own used items.

    • Digby

      As a Poshmark buyer, not seller, my advice is: lots of photos from every angle, in accurate lighting. Have a written detailed description as well – say the item’s color is navy, so the viewer doesn’t have to guess if it’s navy or black. State the fabric content or show the fabric label. A lot of items have bad and few photos and little to no description.

      • Nudibranch

        I agree. As a buyer, one bad photo is not going to get me to buy. I skip right past those–I figure the seller is hiding something. Good color descriptions and measuremens are important. Take photos next to a yardstick or ruler so people can judge proportions.

        I am often searching for a very particular item so a description like “Champion duo dry capri leggings black large #1023456” is a lot more likely to help me in my search than just “leggings, black”. Also, there’s a huge range of asking prices that aren’t realistic. I’m not going to buy something from Poshmark for $$$ when I can buy exactly the same thing cheaper and brand-new from TJ Maxx, et al. (I snort to myself when I see those $$$ items. Over-optimistic much?)

        P.S. If you have the item #’s from the garment clothing tag, that helps your item come up in a Google search. That’s a lot faster for the buyer than wading through Poshmark’s (not super great) search functions.

    • Poshmark Help?

      Thank you all – these are super helpful tips! I’m bookmarking this for future reference as well.

  21. Anon

    I loved Kamala’s blouse and it inspired me to search additional outfits with pussybow blouses (she’s worn them before, apparently). I’m just not sure it would work with my body top. Is there a certain body type where these look best? I’m small (short), have a DD chest, and an average midsection (but not a small waist).

    • Cat

      I think they look best on those who are long of torso and slim of bust. Extra volume in that area on someone shorter and bustier just looks too – fussy? too much? can’t find the exact right word…

    • No Face

      I think they could work for anyone, as long as the general shape of the blouse suits you. My only pussbow blouse is from a thrift store and I get a lot of compliments when I wear it. Short torso, G/H chest, soft mom belly.

    • Anonymous

      I have a couple that have a slight v at the neck and you tie the bow at the bottom of the v. I like those better than the ones that tie right at the neck. I think they are from jcrew.

      • Senior Attorney

        Same here — the ones with a bow at the bottom of a slight V work okay even on busty me.

    • Anon

      If the bow adds too much bulk to your chest area, you can also wear them just in a loose knot, almost like a more feminine version of a man’s tie.

  22. Thanksgiving veggie sides?

    I’m looking for your best recipes for Thanksgiving side dishes, especially veggies. Ideally, carrots and brussel sprouts together. I’m thinking roasted?

    We’re spending Thanksgiving with the one family in our Covid bubble and they’re making a ham, sweet potato mash (something with coconut I think), and maybe another fish/shrimp dish. I think there will be pumpkin pie for desert.

    Adding that I’m not from the US and not very familiar with classic (or “modern”) Thanksgiving dishes.

    • anne-on

      Roasted brussels with salt/pepper tossed with lemon zest and a bit of lemon juice (after they are out of the oven!) is a big hit at our home every year (with everyone above the age of 12 or so).
      Our family also does a version of this recipe (usually at Easter) with cumin seeds, tahini yogurt sauce, and sesame seeds (no avocado for us) and it’s great and very friendly to modify/doctor to individual tastes:
      https://smittenkitchen.com/2016/05/roasted-carrots-with-avocado-and-yogurt/
      My favorite simple salad for thanksgiving is arugula, beets, goat cheese, and pistachios with a honey balsamic dressing (honey, lime juice, balsamic vinegar, olive oil, salt and pepper) on the side.

    • PNW

      I do roasted brussels sprouts with a pomegranate glaze that always goes over well. I usually make extra glaze and it goes on all kinds of things until it is gone.

      I think I found it on Simply Recipes (which is a good site for lots of holiday food ideas).

    • Anon

      People are fiercely loyal to the side dishes they grew up having, and a really popular dish is Green Bean Casserole, which is canned or frozen green beans mixed with a can of condensed mushroom soup topped with canned crispy onions, then baked.

      If you want to use fresher ingredients and be fancier, smitten kitchen has a really good version

      https://smittenkitchen.com/2013/11/green-bean-casserole-with-crispy-onions/

      I would honestly eat either version.

      Another traditional thing you could make is a fresh cranberry relish. Grocery stores sell packages of whole cranberries in the produce section, and the recipe is on the side of the package. It usually just involves water and sugar, and sometimes an orange.

  23. Anonymous

    As covid numbers are going up pretty much everywhere, does anyone else feel that overall behavior is a little bit of what it was back in March when some of the 30 something and younger crowd just WOULD NOT shut it down? In the last week, I’ve seen pictures of 2 friendsgivings in NY. Ok you can argue that NY is fine so it’s ok to do that kind of thing with 6-10 people (IDK what NY’s indoor gathering limits are). But then there’s a friend who held a baby shower indoors in Nebraska. And then another one in LA who was posting pictures of himself playing beer pong with his 20 year old cousins, followed by an indoor birthday party for one of the cousins complete with singing happy birthday and a serve yourself/buffet with communal serving spoons dinner, followed by having 10-15 people in his tiny apartment the next day to watch the Rams game — one friend was masked in a k95 while the others were there screaming at the TV and drinking unmasked; and this is a 40 year old man not a 21 year old. All of these people are ages 35-40. It feels just like March when people just would not stop going out to brunch every weekend because they were like — eh lockdowns are coming soon enough, I’ll stay home then. Is this people just getting their socializing in before winter?? We know so much more now than we did then, I’m surprised that this age group is carrying on like this.

      • Anonymous

        What evidence do you need? People ARE posting Friendsgiving pictures and vacation pictures and inviting people over to watch football. Why are you so offended?

      • Anonymous

        +1. One person’s Facebook feed is not real information. This is a widespread problem in all age groups, I suspect sadly.

      • Anon

        She is giving you evidence that some people, people she knows, are doing this. That is evidence.

        • anon

          4 people she knows is anecdotes, not evidence. I’m sure almost everyone on this board could give 4 examples of people not following the rules, and they wouldn’t all be 30 somethings.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah and it’s really frustrating. I personally know people who are traveling out of state for social visits (either driving or flying), who are ignoring state quarantine recommendations with a wink and a nod, getting together for parties, getting together with multiple households unmasked “but we’ve all been careful,”etc. It’s mostly young people but I also have some middle-aged Trump-supporting family members who think this is all overblown, if not an outright hoax. One of them owns a restaurant and has posted a sign in the front window saying masks are not allowed inside.

      I feel absolutely terrible for all the front-line health workers who are pleading with the media and saying that they are not an unlimited resource. That is how we are treating them and it is awful.

    • Anon

      In case more anecdata helps, I’m in NYC and in that age range and I don’t know anyone acting like that. My friends and I have had a weekly outdoor breakfast going since this summer, but we’ve stopped as of this week because some of us are quarantining for Thanksgiving. We’ve been moderately cautious, but not overly so. All of us did plenty of (outdoor) stuff this summer when it was permitted and reasonably safe, and are now hunkering down. Some of us have kids in private school in person or in daycare.

      Also I’m not on social media so maybe there’s more of this going on than I realize. I’m glad I don’t know about it.

      • Anonymous

        I commented at 12:56 above and I’m actually not on social media, which is all the more scary to me!! I’m really glad I quit Facebook for many reasons, but I’m sure it would be hard to see all the parties there right now.

    • Anonymous

      Yeah sister’s best friend just returned from a spa getaway in Sedona — from DC — because she got a good deal. So yeah.

    • Anon

      I am basically the “old cousin” in my extended family. I’m also one of the few who isn’t in the Midwest. Per social media, life is going on as usual for the age group you mention. Weddings, baby showers, bar hopping, group selfies all crammed together, football game get-togethers, restaurants, shopping, you name it. They are also in some of the highest per-capita covid areas of the US.

      I am angry and worried for them at the same time.

    • anon

      “30 something and younger” is literally 50.7% of the US population and therefore not a meaningful category at all.

      In the spring, there were a few groups that drove different surges in cases: nursing home residents & staff, college students on spring break, Trump rallies, people who hosted large gatherings like weddings. Some of those groups represent specific ages (nursing homes, colleges), but even then it’s a problem with that group, not with that age.

      If people you know are not following guidelines and being irresponsible, that’s a problem with them, not their entire age group. I’m sure everyone on this board could come up with as many anecdotes as you’ve shared about people being irresponsible and we would have all kinds of different age groups represented.

    • Of Counsel

      In my general experience, this is not limited to a particular age group. College students at frat parties or house parties; 20-40 year olds having “small” birthday/Halloween/[insert occasion] parties with a “small” group of family or friends; people whose parents have died and have memorial services/wakes; politicians who have big receptions/dinners. Between people who think it is a hoax/overblown, people who do not think it will happen to them or that they are not in an at-risk demographics, older people who do not want to die without seeing their families; fatalists who just think this cannot last forever; and people who have to be exposed at work and figure they may as well have some fun with other people, many of whom are also working, Covid fatigue has hit in a major way.

      My state courts are open and I have a trial set for February so after eight months of trying not to go out more than necessary, I am basically being forced to be in a rooms with at least 5 people and soon to be more. I can understand how people who have to work may decide that they might as well have dinner with friends. And I am trying really hard not to judge.

    • Anon

      Nope but I have seen a lot of pictures of middle aged people gathering unmasked in large groups to support Trump, so I guess you can’t blame all of the world’s problems on millennials this time.

  24. Anonymous

    Moms/relatives of teenage boys: what’s a good gift card to get them?

    My nephews are 11 and 15. We don’t see them very often or know them very well. They are perfectly nice every time we see them, which is maybe in Normal Times once every year or every other year. We’ve generally done a target gift card + one other smaller thing (book, toy off their list, etc). Does a Target GC still make sense? Is there a better place that boys will spend money? When I was a young teen, my fave gifts were movies or books off my list + gift cards.

    At their mom’s request we didn’t do Amazon GCs when we started this bc the younger kid was only 8 or so and liked to pick stuff out in person. Their mom (DH’s step sister with whom he is cordial but not close) is very amenable and said “oh whatever is fine!” when I asked.

    Ideas? Bonus if there’s a fun <$25 "thing" you can recommend to send along as well.

    • anon

      Yes, if it must be in person, Target GC. Otherwise you’re looking at speciality stores and it’s not worth it.

      For a fun thing: it’s tough because it depends on their interests, but my boys are slightly younger (9 and 11) and they still love lego (especially Marvel), cool brain teasers, comic books (Calvin and Hobbes and Foxtrot), and sports trading cards. Not sure about the 15 year old. Honestly, I’d buy something from target and get a gift receipt because they can always return it and get whatever they want :).

    • pugsnbourbon

      Do either of them have a playstation/switch/other type of gaming console? Games can get pretty expensive.

      • Anonymous

        I think that’s what they use their Target GCs for :). Though I know last year the younger guy put his toward some insane lego set (it was a $100 GC and I think it covered half of it). Is the consensus then that even at 15, a young dude can still find something good to buy at target? Because that makes my life very easy.

    • Anon

      My aunt used to give us Chipotle or Wawa (location dependent, obviously) gift cards starting when we were in high school. I’d ask their mom what fast casual places are nearby/popular with their friends

      • Anonymous

        Even during a pandemic? I would hesitate to even subtly encourage meeting up with friends to eat this year :(. but filing this away for next christmas– along with gas GCs for when i have a 16 y/o!

        • Anon

          With the caveat that my aunt no longer does this because my cousins and I are all adults; I don’t see what’s wrong with giving this gift during a pandemic for two reasons: 1) just because they get the gift card now, doesn’t mean they have to use it now. They don’t expire, so the kids could hold on to them until whenever they’re able to socialize again and 2) these places are famous for being to-go. The kid could order online, do a curbside pick up, and eat it at home (without friends) very easily. Just because she did it for us because they were popular after school with friends places, doesn’t mean its the only way to eat that food!

          I’m not at all encouraging kids going to Chipotle with friends right now, but I don’t think that it rules out the gift. Browsing at Target isn’t encourage right now either.

    • go for it

      My go to teen gift card is Dunkin (or wherever) gift card. They appreciate getting the biggest hot chocolates your money can buy.

    • Anonymous

      When I was a kid, I liked bookstore gift cards. Do they have a local bookstore in their hometown that you could arrange to have them sent from? Otherwise, Borders or Barnes & Noble and they can order online.

    • Anon

      Target or amazon gift card. If you know they are gamers and use a particular platform like PlayStation or Xbox you can buy gift cards from those platforms so they can buy new games. Target gift cards are fine because you can also use them to order online e.

  25. Hollis

    I’m planning a virtual birthday party for a group of about 5-7 soon-to-be teenage girls. Does anyone have any recommendations on an activity that would be fun? I was thinking either a virtual escape room or some kind of creative activity (where I drop off kits to the girls’ homes before the party)? They are tired of scavenger hunts and watching movies with friends.

    • Anonymous

      Hire a makeup artist to teach them a fun look with a cheap kit of drugstore makeup?

        • anne-on

          I just got the Olive & June Pedicure box and it’s pretty great – that and a Netflix watch party would be an awesome birthday in my mind ;)

    • Anonymous

      We just did an online version of Telestrations for a work event and it ended up being surprisingly fun.

      • pugsnbourbon

        Oh that sounds great! My wife’s family LOVES Telestrations – we’ll have to check it out.

      • Vicky Austin

        Telestrations is the most fun I’ve ever had with family, full stop.

    • Anonymous

      Bath bomb making? Or paint nite? Get supplies dropped off to each house and a person to provide online instruction.

    • Anonymous

      I like the makeup artist idea. You could drop of awesome swag bags of fun makeup for them to try out.

      Around me there is a woman that will drop off packages of things like cookies to bake and decorate (or decorate), cupcakes, or a more advanced thing. If your kid is into cooking that could be fun. Maybe make it into some kind of competition with good prizes (amazon or STBX gift cards)?

    • anne-on

      I just saw a friend did a virtual NailedIt cake kit with her tween daughter and it looked so fun!
      I’ve done virtual flower arranging classes with friends and it was really fun. I’m sure a makeup artist would also be able to put together a virtual makeup lesson, or ask a hair stylist if they can do a class on how to do blowouts/braids/waves? A stylist to give them a talk on how to figure out your personal style/how to best dress your body type? Anything that would treat them as more ‘adult’ would probably be a hit.

    • anon

      Check out Jackbox Games – they have a ton of different types of games for virtual groups. You will need to download steam – which is a free platform to run many games. Try a party pack of a few and see what everyone likes. Only the host needs to download Steam and buy the games, everyone else can do it from their phone or computer.

  26. The Crown

    I think that IRL, Diana Spencer had about 3x as much hair as the actress playing her. This is before extensions and fake hair, so I guess some people are just staggeringly folicularly gifted?

    Also, IIRC Diana is the Roman goddess of the hunt (Athena in Greek mythology). I know lots of girls of Greek heritage named Athena / Athina. But I have more Italian-heritage friends and there are no Dianas among them or their mothers/aunts/siblings. [And Norse gods/goddesses live on in . . . heavy metal; maybe other places.]

    • Senior Attorney

      I lived through the whole Diana saga and am enjoying the costumes, which are for the most part duplicates of outfits DIana was photographed wearing. I think the actress playing her is spot-on.

      My husband and I were horrified at the scenes where Margaret and Denis Thatcher were invited to Balmoral and treated so spectacularly shabbily — the “test.” Good Lord. If being upper class means being rude to your guests I guess I will just continue to be happily middle class.

      • Senior Attorney

        Also: My son was born in 1986 and if he’d been a girl there’s a good chance he would have been named Diana.

        • Anon

          I great up in a very Italian area on the east coast, and was born in 85, and knew an absolute ton of Dianas growing up.

        • Anon

          My parents were married the same year as Charles & Diana (1981) and my mom has a sapphire and diamond engagement ring!

          • Senior Attorney

            Haha believe it or not I had forgotten this, but I got engaged to my first husband in 1983 with, yes, a sapphire and diamond engagement ring!

      • Anon

        I thought it was a competition to see who could out-rude the other. The only one who wasn’t a complete jackass in that episode was poor Denis.

    • Anonymous

      No,
      Athena = Minerva = wisdom goddes
      Artemisa = Diana= Hunting goddes,
      you know plenty of greek heritage women named Athena because she was the patron and protectress of various cities across Greece, particularly the city of Athens, from which she most likely received her name.
      In Italy like in Spain is more used catholic patron names for children.

    • Vicky Austin

      Haha, my sister was just telling me that her boyfriend is watching it with her for the first time and cannot keep ANYONE straight. She gave him the run-through before they started and everything, but poor guy is still lost. He asked first if Prince Philip was the Queen’s son, then if the Queen Mum was her sister, and heaven help him if P.Margaret or P.Anne comes on.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        My husband loves the show but has next to zero background knowledge about them, it’s kind of hilarious. I thought it was crazy that he had absolutely no idea that Charles and Diana had a troubled marriage, nor could he remember how Diana died (!!! and we walked by the memorial in Paris by the Pont de l’Alma two summers ago!), and it REALLY blew his mind that QEII from season one is the current sovereign. He’s generally well informed about world affairs, but woefully behind on his royal gossip :-)

        • Anon

          Gen x here. I remember exactly where I was and who I was with when I heard Diana had died. I remember it the way the generation prior remembers JFK being shot.

          My sisters and I got up very very early in the morning to watch the royal wedding and it’s something I will never forget. That voluminous dress was the most beautiful, magical thing I’d ever seen. Yes, not by today’s standards, but at the time. It was major.

          • Aunt Jamesina

            I was 13 and I distinctly remember when Diana died. My husband is the same age as me, so he has no excuse!

    • Aunt Jamesina

      I don’t think there’s a real tradition of Italians naming children after any Roman god/goddesses the way there is with Greeks. I love the meaning of the name Diana, though.

  27. SF in House

    I am dropping off dinner to two older ladies (70s) tomorrow. The only restrictions are lo carb and no bananas, lima beans, or asparagus. Any great ideas?

    • pugsnbourbon

      Roasted salmon + green beans + brown rice and maybe fruit salad? I know fruit has decent carbs but the fiber balances it out.

  28. Kelsey

    I have an etiquette question for the group. I have twice been in situations where I am introducing one acquaintance to another acquaintance in a public place, where the younger person is wearing dark sunglasses. In case it matters, one was at an outdoor area outside of our church (pre-covid) where the person with sunglasses is an entry level attorney looking for a job and I’m introducing him to a partner at a law firm, in the second case I was introducing a younger friend who just moved into town to my friend who is a doctor that I referred to my friend (so she actually already had an apptmt to see him about a week later). In both cases, I wanted to tell the younger person to take their sunglasses off so that the other person can see their eyes and recognize them at a future time, but I kept mum. To me it seems kind of obviously rude not to take one’s dark sunglasses off when you are introduced to someone new, but am I just making up a rule that doesn’t exist? You will ask me why it matters and why I care, but in both cases, I am more like a mentor to the younger person and felt that the older person might find the dark sunglasses offputting. Tell me if you think that’s an old fashioned view.

    • anonshmanon

      Agree that it’s a bad habit to keep them on. But I don’t know how I would have told them in that situation. Sorry, that’s not helpful, but I think you aren’t old fashioned.

    • pugsnbourbon

      That’s interesting and particularly important now, with masks – you’d never know who I was if you saw me again!

      In any case, I think just by posting here you’re helping people, like me, who hadn’t thought much about this before.

    • Anon

      It’s not rude to keep your sunglasses on in a brightly lit place, even when being introduced to someone, but it is best practice if they are being introduced for networking purposes. I’d say don’t judge them for wanting to protect their eyes, but do mention it after the fact to your mentee.

    • Anon

      This seems like one of those bizarre things that old people care about for no practical reason. Was it sunny out? Then let the people wear their sunglasses. Definitely don’t say anything in the moment; they’re not children and you’re not their mother. Mention it afterwards if you want to.

      • Anonymous

        Curious how old you are. Because yes, of course she shouldn’t have corrected them in the moment, but that’s not what she asked.

        I’m 36 and while I may have unwittingly kept my sunglasses on in the past, thinking about it now it’s definitely rude at worst and at best, just not a good way to network!

        • Anon

          Omg there is nothing rude about wearing sunglasses when it’s sunny. It’s literally what sunglasses are for.

    • CountC

      I think it’s good advice and if you are like a mentor to the introducees, mention it now/after the fact vs. at the time.

    • Senior Attorney

      If it’s outdoors I don’t think it’s unreasonable, and I don’t think there’s any graceful way to mention it in the moment.

      If you are a mentor to these people, you can share your feelings to them in private: “Maybe it’s just me, but I always feel like it’s polite to remove your sunglasses when you’re introduced to somebody new so they can make eye contact and recognize you more easily in the future.”

      • Anon

        SA I usually like your advice but I would write you off as an uptight weirdo if you gave me this advice in person. And I am closer to your age than most people here, also a Californian, and I’m known for my connections – so I’m good at networking, and I wear my sunglasses outdoors 100% of the time.

      • all about eevee

        SA, I love your advice and I have a ton of respect for you, but if you said this to me, I would stop listening after “maybe it’s just me”.

          • Senior Attorney

            And I hasten to add I don’t agree with the OP. Was just trying to suggest a way for her to share her opinion. Apparently it was a fail.

    • Annony

      I agree that it would be polite to remove one’s sunglasses when meeting someone, and especially so during an introduction. I’d give the younger person the benefit of the doubt though … I think habitual sunglass wearers often forget they are wearing them and depending on the circumstances, the younger person may have been caught off guard or perhaps a bit nervous.

    • anon

      I am with you – nobody would recognize me with sunglasses off, because mine are dark and hide half of my face. When I am being introduces, I take the sunglasses off. And no, it is not an “old people’s thing”, as the other poster wrote. We should make an effort to connect with people, especially when being introduced. I would mention it to the person after. I can imagine that if you are wearing glasses as well, you could take yours off while doing the introduction and say something along the lines “Let me just take the sunglasses off, I don’t even see you properly/so that you will recognize me without them”. The others will get it and follow or choose to keep theirs on.

    • Anonymous

      Ha this reminds me of something that happened to me years ago when I was knocking on doors and canvassing for a local election. I was maybe 19 at the time. Someone told me to take my sunglasses off and make eye contact if I wanted to convince them to vote for my candidate. I complied, but I have sensitive eyes and it was very sunny, so I was squinting so hard I started to tear up. They became exasperated with me because I was “crying.” It was embarrassing at the time but I can chuckle about it now. All this is to say, it’s probably better to leave your sunglasses on than to cry when you meet someone!

      • Anon

        I know they aren’t cool, but this is one reason I started wearing transitions. They’re less protective, but at least I never take them off (which was always a disaster).

    • Aunt Jamesina

      Had I been the sunglasses-wearer in this situation I don’t think it would have even occurred to me to take them off in the moment; I often completely forget I’m wearing them (I’m in mid mid 30s FWIW). I also have very sensitive eyes in bright sunlight.

      I’m not comfortable calling this “ruse” since there’s no established etiquette (or maybe there is, but I’ve read quite a bit of vintage etiquette columns and books and I don’t recall ever seeing this advice). I don’t think this is at all about etiquette, just about practicalities when the purpose in meeting someone is so they’ll hopefully recognize you later. I see your point, but I’m not sure there’s anything you can really do about it.

    • Anonymous

      You are being weirdly judgy and inventing even more ridiculous etiquette. I have photosensitive eyes and wear sunglasses basically anytime I’m outside because otherwise my eyes water uncontrollably. I don’t advertise my medical problems but this is fairly normal. Which is to say you are the rude one not your acquaintances.

    • Airplane.

      This is so bizarre to me and if you mentioned this to me in person I’d think it very odd of you. Not old or old fashion just…bizarre. If it’s outdoors and sunny I’m wearing sunglasses to protect my eyes. It is not rude to wear sunglasses outside during the daytime ever. And I’m not trying to network with my future doctor. I would not be put off meeting someone I might interview for a job if she were wearing sunglasses. outdoors. in the sun.

      • Aunt Jamesina

        Yes, if I were the potential future employer in this situation, I might wonder if I’d recognize her later, but I have a hard time remembering *anyone* I’ve met briefly only once anyway, and I would see this as a “me not recognizing people” problem and not a “potential job candidate should have removed her sunglasses” problem. I wouldn’t ever think less of someone for leaving their sunglasses on, nor do I think I’ve ever seen anyone remove their sunglasses when being introduced when it’s sunny out.

    • Anonymous

      I wear prescription sunglasses, and would not remove them for an introduction outdoors.

      I do however feel extremely rude when I keep them on in doors in shops, on public transport etc. and have an interaction with somebody. I have quite often taken them off at tills when paying etc. – which leaves me with a blurry but seemingly polite world. But outside – the glasses stay on.

    • anon

      I think it’s better etiquette to take sunglasses off when being introduced. If someone is wearing a mask and large sunglasses, it’s impossible to tell what they look like. However, my eyes are very sensitive to light, and I often forget to remove my sunglasses, even indoors.

    • all about eevee

      If you tried to correct me on something bizarre like this, I would write you off as a mentor. Not because you are old fashioned but because you make mountains out of molehills.

    • Anon

      I don’t think you should expect anyone to take off their sunglasses in bright outdoor weather. I wouldn’t take mine off and I’m not the younger generation. I’m 55. It’s UV protection, plus I don’t think I’d be more memorable, at least not in a good way, with squinting, watery eyes.

    • Anon

      I have very sensitive eyes and can barely open my eyes outside without sunglasses on. You might think it’s rude to keep them on, but I guarantee it would be worse if I spent the whole meeting squinting and grimacing in pain. Don’t assume everyone is lucky enough to have the choice to take them off.

    • anon

      What? I don’t think this is a “young person thing” at all. It honestly would not occur to me, nor would I notice or care if someone didn’t remove their sunglasses when meeting me. Age 40, for reference.

  29. construction

    Has anyone had construction work done on their home during the pandemic? If so, how did it go in terms of precautions?

    We are in the Chicago area and in a Stay-At-Home “advisory” as of today. This is not changing anything for me and my husband as we take it very seriously – I am pregnant and only leave for groceries, doctors’ appointments, or to pick up takeout. Unfortunately, in April, our basement got water and had to be torn out. We put up tarps, closed the door to the basement, and stayed behind the tarps or closed doors the whole time. We also wore masks if we were in the common area (the hallway) or had to go down into the basement, which we generally avoided because the cleanup crew removing all the wet carpet and drywall was not wearing masks. That was early April and now we of course know more. I don’t want to have workers in my house but with a baby coming and an open basement, we don’t really have much of an option. Our plan is pretty much the same except to be strict about enforcing mask-wearing among the workers – so we will stay behind tarps or closed doors (and on higher floors), wear masks if we are in the hallway or have to interact with the crew, avoid going down there, wipe down common areas, wash our hands, open windows or have fans running down there, etc. I expect there will be some days where a crew is here a lot and maybe going in and out of the house much more and we have a backup plan that I can stay at my parents’ house nearby, which is empty. We thought about staying there the whole time but also don’t want the crew to have free rein of the house and want to ensure the project is moving along speedily. Any thoughts?

    • Anon

      What kind of filter do you have in your furnace? Perhaps it’s time to upgrade to the highest rating. Also make sure that the workers know that you are pregnant.

    • Anonymous

      How do you think you are getting covid from people wearing masks in your basement when you are floors away divided by tarps?

    • A.

      How long is the project? Could you both just stay at your parents’ house and check in daily?

    • Anon

      I’m in Oak Park and know a lot of people have had construction done. Everyone is wearing masks and separated and so far everything seems to have been fine. Staying at your parents’ house sounds like a good option.

    • AFT

      Hi! Chicago suburbs and just had a week-long project completed, and a different service provider in the house today. I would probably avoid booking new optional work, but it sounds like your basement was necessary work? So I would say wear masks, try to avoid much in-person face time with the workers, the workers work masks, and generally stay out of their space as much as possible. We had the added complication of having kids at home remote learning, so we also schooled them on wearing a mask whenever they were on the same floor that the work was happening. I think your plans sound adequately cautious!

    • H

      We did backyard work and a remodel of our main bathroom a couple months ago. The workers were generally masked when we interacted with them, although I don’t think they kept their masks on necessarily while working. We just kept the door to our room closed, and because of the work they were doing, there was generally at least one window open where they were working. It was completely fine. We’ve also had our cleaners coming this whole time, and we all wear masks, open windows, and wipe down high touch areas when they leave. Again, all fine. I wouldn’t worry about people working in the basement, particularly if you’re on completely different floors.

  30. Anon

    Any game recommendations for 3 people? I’d like to get something for my parents and I to play over Christmas. We like word games, trivia, fun group games…we hated Ticket to Ride and Settlers, lol. Any ideas?

    • Senior Attorney

      It was expensive but we love our Giant Jenga. Or of course you can do the regular size, but the big blocks are just irresistable.

    • Anon

      A deck of cards and learning how to play Hearts. Three handed Pinochle is also really fun, but requires a Pinochle deck. Fortunately, playing cards are inexpensive. Always buy the Bicycle brand. They are the easiest to shuffle and deal. If your parents have diminishing eyesight, you can buy larger print cards.

      I also really like three handed cribbage, which requires a cribbage board in addition to a regular deck of cards.

  31. Anon

    Does anyone have any tips for helping a husband with depression?

    My husband’s hedge fund blew up a little over a year ago. On top of that, it wasn’t too long before his company went under that his brother tragically died and I think it’s only now that he’s grieving. He was holding it all together (for better or for worse…) before COVID hit, but then ever since we’ve been staying at home I think it’s all just caught up with him. Ever since March he has lost all motivation, grumpier than usual, has lost all interest in sex, is eating and sleeping terribly, has gained weight, etc. and has admitted he’s depressed. I love him so much and it pains me to see him like this. I have tried different things including really encouraging him to go talk to someone/seek therapy which he does not want to do, but to date haven’t figured out what will work. We’re totally fine financially (I have a good job and we have plenty of savings) but I know getting back out there job-wise will help his confidence.

    I also feel selfish because as more and more time goes by I’ve at times gotten privately frustrated, occasionally leading to impatience on my part and perhaps letting my frustration show. I just really want him to get going again for his own sake but don’t know how.

    Honestly, we do have a really strong marriage and are best friends so I don’t want to give the impression here that our marriage is falling apart from this. I’ll stand by his side no matter what but I’m just at a loss for what to do to help him and, also to a lesser extent, to help myself be more patient as he picks himself back up.

    • Jules

      You should repost on the afternoon thread, but my thought is that you should tell him what you’ve said here: that he is clearly depressed, it’s painful for you to see him like this and for his own sake as well as yours he NEEDS to seek professional help. It might also be helpful to identify a few providers who are in your network and let him choose one (or even just make the first appointment for him, if you think he will accept that).

        • Anon

          Thanks so much… I appreciate the kind words and good ideas. And that’s a good idea ( I’m clearly coming a little late to the discussion!!). I’ll post there.

    • Anonie

      I am so very sorry. It must hurt so much to see your partner in this kind of pain. Can you offer to go to a couple’s counselor WITH him (virtually or otherwise)? What about helping him find a virtual grief counseling group of sorts? Something like that may feel less formal and less intimidating than *therapy* to someone who has never been.

      Also, have you been really blunt about how worried you are? I don’t blame you for feeling frustrated and I think that, instead of apologizing for your frustration, showing some tough love and refusing to sugar-coat the situation might help him realize how serious this has become so he can stop seeing therapy as an option and instead see it as a necessity.

      If he won’t listen to you, who else can you pull in for this conversation? My fiance, for example, puts a lot of faith in his dad’s opinions. His dad and I are very different people in about a million ways and have next to nothing in common….still, this works to my benefit and the benefit of our relationship because his father (and mom) always advocate for him listening to me and are constantly pushing him to be the best partner he can possibly be. If I were in your situation and my fiance were ignoring my suggestions the way your husband is disregarding yours, I would immediately jump on a phone call with his parents and ask them to have my back. For your husband, is there a sibling, parent, or friend who can play this role?

      If talking about mental and emotional health won’t move him, help him set up a tele-health appointment with a primary care physician. Maybe talking about the physical effects of depression will better grasp his attention.

      Again, I’m very sorry!

  32. Anonie

    I am so very sorry. It must hurt so much to see your partner in this kind of pain. Can you offer to go to a couple’s counselor WITH him (virtually or otherwise)? What about helping him find a virtual grief counseling group of sorts? Something like that may feel less formal and less intimidating than *therapy* to someone who has never been.

    Also, have you been really blunt about how worried you are? I don’t blame you for feeling frustrated and I think that, instead of apologizing for your frustration, showing some tough love and refusing to sugar-coat the situation might help him realize how serious this has become so he can stop seeing therapy as an option and instead see it as a necessity.

    If he won’t listen to you, who else can you pull in for this conversation? My fiance, for example, puts a lot of faith in his dad’s opinions. His dad and I are very different people in about a million ways and have next to nothing in common….still, this works to my benefit and the benefit of our relationship because his father (and mom) always advocate for him listening to me and are constantly pushing him to be the best partner he can possibly be. If I were in your situation and my fiance were ignoring my suggestions the way your husband is disregarding yours, I would immediately jump on a phone call with his parents and ask them to have my back. For your husband, is there a sibling, parent, or friend who can play this role?

    If talking about mental and emotional health won’t move him, help him set up a tele-health appointment with a primary care physician. Maybe talking about the physical effects of depression will better grasp his attention.

    Again, I’m very sorry!

  33. pussy-bow

    So I just wanted to comment to say that I absolutely love the pussy boy style. And I love the one in this post and I love the pants with it (but not for work lol).

    I found over time though that everyone else hates this look and the name pussy-bow. Absolutely everyone. Men particularly hate it. It is not a look that is acceptable at most formal workplaces. People will take you less seriously if you dress like this.

    I love this to pieces but today for example I am wearing a navy blue dress suit. Boring as hell but much more acceptable than the pussybow.

    • LaurenB

      Where do you conclude that everyone hates it? I suspect most men don’t really care / distinguish between this and other work-appropriate blouses.

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