This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.
Nov. 2024 Update: The Nordstrom Anniversary Sale is over for the year, and we don't yet know when the 2025 Nordstrom Anniversary Sale will be. Stay tuned for their Half-Yearly Sale, which usually starts around Dec. 23. (Unfamiliar with the NAS? Check out this page for more info on why it's the best sale of the year.) Sign up for our newsletter to stay on top of all the major workwear sales, or check out our roundup of the latest sales on workwear!
Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
The below content is about the 2018 Nordstrom Anniversary Sale.
Another shrunken blazer for you: this fun houndstoooth suit jacket from 1901, which I believe is a Nordstrom brand. A full suiting look in houndstooth can be a lot of look, but if it's just the blazer it can be a really nice pop of print. I'd wear this with your basic black sheath dress, or go for some of the styling options we noted on Tuesday's workwear post — voluminous top like a billowy white tank and skinny ankle pants — or high-waisted voluminous trousers with a close-fitted top. The blazer is $89.90 during the Nordstrom Anniversary Sale, but will go back to $139 after the sale, and is available in petite and regular sizes 0-16. Shrunken Houndstooth Suit Jacket
Looking for something similar in plus sizes? This houndstooth duster cardigan is very cute, and this glen plaid jacket has slouchy goodness.
This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support!
Psst: check out all of our coverage of the 2018 Nordstrom Anniversary Sale, including our top picks for workwear under $200 and our favorite plus-size picks for work!
Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.
Sales of note for 11.5.24
- Nordstrom – Fall sale, up to 50% off!
- Ann Taylor – Extra 40% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 25% off with your GAP Inc. credit card
- Bloomingdales is offering gift cards ($20-$1200) when you spend between $100-$4000+. The promotion ends 11/10, and the gift cards expire 12/24.
- Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
- Eloquii – Fall clearance event, up to 85% off
- J.Crew – 40% off fall favorites; prices as marked
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 60% off clearance
- Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – New sale, up to 50% off
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Buy one, get one – 50% off everything!
- White House Black Market – Holiday style event, take 25% off your entire purchase
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
AIMS
I’m not sure about this blazer but I really like the other stuff from this brand!
Has anyone seen the NYT article about how when the woman in the relationship makes more money than the man, both will often lie about it and pretend otherwise? I have one friend who openly discusses out-earning her husband but it’s fairly obvious that this is the case in their situation. Curious what everyone’s experience is with this as I think we have a few women here who make a lot more than their partners. (It’s an old article so not sure if it’s been discussed).
AIMS
The article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/upshot/when-wives-earn-more-than-husbands-neither-like-to-admit-it.html
Cc
I feel like I’m in an alternate reality some times. Like throw these men away. My husband is a teacher- he works incredibly hard and is amazing at what he does. He does at least half of the household stuff (not just the mow the lawn – he makes the bed, tidied up, makes dinner and does the big walk with the dog everyday. I do the vacuuming and bathroooms on the weekend and take the dog out in the mornings) obviously I outearn him(he made around 30k this year and I made 130) and it’s not even a thought – it’s all our money and we have regular finance check ins.
Cc
Also just since it’s about gender norms – my husband is very traditionally masculine in the way society defines it- he is around 200 pounds, very strong, grew up in a very rough neighborhood. The more I think about it maybe that is key – he is so secure in who he is as a person. He is in a job that fufills his passion, friendly, extroverted, well liked. I don’t think he spends time worrying about what other people think about him at all. He also couldn’t be prouder of me – I think that’s why there has never been resentment. On the other side – I see what a hard worker he is. To me that is the key, not the income. If he was making a low salary because of his own lack of work ethic I would not find that desirable
anonforthis
“I don’t think he spends time worrying about what other people think about him at all. He also couldn’t be prouder of me – I think that’s why there has never been resentment.”
I could say the same for my husband. I make 3.5 times what he makes (400k vs 150k). Neither of us care. Other people seem to care more and wonder how I can “handle it.” Sigh.
SW
+1,000. My fiance and I earn roughly the same now, but his salary will likely remain around the same for the rest of his working life, while we expect mine to continue to increase (I am in my second year of partnership at a mid-size law firm). He is incredibly proud of me – as I am of him – and he has no resentment whatsoever about any potential earning disparity.
Anonymous
Well said. Throw them all away. My chances of making more than a guy I date are slim, unless he works at McDonald’s (nonprofit salary versus…everyone else), but if I ever felt like I had to lie to satisfy a man’s ego I would jump off a bridge.
Anonymous
Seriously. Sometimes I wonder why I’m still single. Then I see things like this and I’m like oh that’s right.
Fellow singleton
Amen
Rainbow Hair
The good news is how many men aren’t like this, how many men don’t need to be thrown away. My husband is a SAH spouse and does all the house stuff — laundry, dishes, groceries, cooking, packing lunches, yardwork. He’s a tough, butch guy, and there have been times when he was the sole breadwinner while I stayed home… but he’s secure in his identity and has always valued domestic labor, so as long as he’s contributing important work to the household, he feels good. My two besties (women) have partners (men) with similar values/approaches.
I suspect that part of why my friends and I have been able to find men with these values is that we have dated men who don’t place a ton of value on $$$ and status-y jobs. Of course this is a big generalization, but I think that if you’re limiting your dating pool to men who have high-paying, high-status jobs, I suspect you’re selecting a population of men where a larger percent have their self worth is tied up in those things… and those guys might not like to be out-earned.
Rainbow Hair
Wow I can’t believe I just said something that was like “some men are OK!”
Usually I’m so profoundly team #BanAllMen (-:
Anonymous
I think the problem is that I have to limit my dating pool to single men. And at this point there is usually a reason why they are still single.
Anon
I found that many men had mediocre careers and were fine with it for themselves, but were worried about the pressure of earning more because they’re tools of the patriarchy. Like they knew they couldn’t match my income and were nervous that they’d have to, but what if I had kids and wanted to be a stay at home spouse?
Diana Barry
Hard pass on this suit!!!
I feel like we might have talked about this a few years ago but not since then? We know a few dual-earner couples where the wife makes more – think giant bank or G**gle. When we GTG, in couples or alone, we don’t talk a lot about what everyone makes. More like general complaining about our jobs: they’ll say it’s so annoying that I have to travel so much, why are there so many levels of review at my job, it’s too bureaucratic, etc., and then I complain that my firm is still working on Windows 7 and our IT is a joke, etc. I don’t think it’s common (at least in our area) to get really granular about what you make. That said, we are all 40-ish professionals with kids, so it might be different when you’re just starting out in your 20s.
Lana Del Raygun
I am functionally the sole breadwinner so I’d be very surprised if either of us had the nerve to lie about it. But I confess I do feel a certain amount of pressure (not from him, just from … idk, it’s in the water or something) to play up his other accomplishments more than is entirely honest, especially in areas where we have directly comparable achievements. We both lift, for example, and somehow it feels like the polite thing is to pretend he’s more stronger than me than he is in reality.
Anonymous
I used to be in Big Law when my husband was in grad school and postdoc so I think it was fairly obvious to everyone that I made significantly more. We never really discussed it (do people actually talk about their salaries with their friends?) but we certainly never lied about it or tried to hide it. Now he’s a professor and I’m in government so our salaries are very equal.
Anon
I’ll cop to this – I waaaayyyyy play down my career success to keep the peace.
Anonymous
That bums me out. Do you have kids and if so, what do you say to them?
Anon
I have 2 very young children – so they don’t understand any of this yet. Somebody once told me that the patriarchy is hard on men too. And by that she meant – the patriarchy is bad for everyone, not just women. Men feel a crazy, irrational pressure to out earn their wives, and they feel bad and stupid if they don’t.
My husband feels very sensitive about my income versus his own. But then just today, he randomly texted me to say that he looked at my LinkedIn profile (I just got a new job) and he was super proud of me. It’s not really black and white.
I’m bummed out too.
busybee
Wait what? You play down your career successes because your husband can’t handle the idea of his wife being successful? And you go along with this? You didn’t even tell him you got a new job because of his special fragile ego? You’re contributing to society’s problem.
I honestly can’t fathom being married to someone who isn’t proud of me and happy to share in my success as well as my failures.
Anonymous
Yeah, duh, the patriarchy hurts everybody. But that’s not a reason to coddle your man baby husband’s feelings.
Anon
It’s a myth that the patriarchy hurts men. Patriarchy hurts women and men are the beneficiaries. They would never, ever, ever trade places with us if they knew we would treat them the way they treat us – no matter how much pressure to earn they feel.
Anon
Watch little boys being told not to wear nail polish, not to cry, not to enjoy Disney princesses, to stop drawing/writing/painting and go play sports, to learn how to fight because there’ll be fistfights. Tell me the patriarchy isn’t bad for everybody. It is.
Let’s say there was a husband and wife, and the husband was very fit and the wife was very overweight. The husband avoids talking about how fit he is, to avoid making his wife feel bad. Would you be mad at the husband for coddling his overly sensitive wife. Or would you blame our stupid society for making the wife feel that her self worth is tied to her weight?
This stuff is deep and hard.
anon
Patriarchy hurts men a bit. It hurts women more, but it hurts men some.
You know that trick parents do when two kids are squabbling/sharing a piece of cake? Get one kid to cut it, then the other kid gets to pick the piece? Men are making the slice, but we all know men wouldn’t choose to switch places.
Anon
Thanks for blaming me, as the woman, for the patriarchy.
I’ve learned my lesson. Don’t be honest about your experience. Tell everyone that everything is equal all the time, or you’re doing something wrong. Only women with perfect husbands need share their experience.
He knew I got a new job. He moved from the town that he has lived his entire life to support my career. He was checking out the new profile. I’m glad my life is so unimaginable for you. JfC
busybee
He’s not perfect, but he’s darn proud of me and I would never ever feel I had to minimize my success just to “keep the peace.” I’m white collar and he’s blue collar, so no– you can’t make a blanket statement that men feel bad and stupid when they make less than their wives because that’s just patently false.
You have two young children. If it’s a boy and a girl, will you tell your daughter she needs to keep quiet when she gets an A so her brother feels pleased and happy with a C?
I’m glad I was raised by a single mom so I got to see what a strong woman looks like.
Anon
You must be a wonderful person and that is why you have such a perfect marriage. Happy?
Again, if this forum is only for women with perfect partners, then I must have missed the memo. There’s a way to have an honest discussion about this without swooping in with smug judgement.
Cool story. I was raised by a grandmother who took over ancestral farm operations in Punjab and saved the family when her husband became addicted to opiates.
Anonymous
Your grandmother rocks.
And addiction is an awful, genetically programmed thing. I have sympathy all around.
NotherAnon
Hey Anon – I’m with you! I do the same. And I think a lot of it is because I married someone who is just as much of an A personality as I am. We compete and get a little bitter when one outpaces the other. But it doesn’t take away the fact that we are very, very proud of each other. The two emotions are completely compatible. I don’t know that my husband is resentful of ME making more money, I think he’s resentful of HIMSELF not making more. Which is how I feel when he’s ahead too.
Frozen Peach
Anon, I’m with you too. Our professional successes have borne fruit in very different ways, and I love my husband and I care about his feelings.
If you think the patriarchy only hurts women, you are not paying attention. And even if you stipulate that it only benefits men, the limitations on men’s acceptance of traditionally feminine roles/colors/pastimes/emotions etc etc, indirectly hurt women because we miss out on intimacy with the (apparently) horrible brutes that we want to mate with.
FFS. Thank you for your honesty. I do this too. My partner is a SAHD right now. He has been way more successful than me in the past. We take turns at leaning into our careers and into our family life. We always knew I would out-earn him because of our different fields. I do this because I CARE ABOUT MY HUSBANDS FEELINGS AND I WANT TO SUPPORT HIM.
My family always thought he was a gold digger. I continue to get this from them, and it offends me beyond ALL measure. Nothing else can get me as mad as fast. God forbid I decide to choose a husband who won’t ask me to be the default parent or give up my career on the altar of his.
busybee
Anon at 2:28, but why contribute to that? By treating your (not sure if you’re the same anon that posted but I’ll assume for the sake of ease that you are) husband a certain way because of these societal beliefs, you’re perpetuating them at home. And then your children grow up to perpetuate them in society. Therefore contributing to the problem. Change starts at home. If you want to raise children that reject a patriarchal society, start by treating your husband like a self-assured man, rather than one whose ego needs to be coddled because Patriarchy makes men feel Sad.
As to the overweight wife/fit man example: I would absolutely think there’s a problem with the wife if she can’t be happy for her husband for being fit and healthy. It’s called getting over your own insecurities so you can support a spouse and be happy for their accomplishments.
Anon
I accept that I should. I’m friggin’ exhausted right now. I spent a large part of my day pulling data to argue in front a boardroom full of men that we should start offering flexible work arrangements. Because the women in our company are exhausted too.
I’m fighting the patriarchy. Just not on all fronts. Rather than lie about it, I’m honest about where I’m failing and why.
I’ll just drop this convo by saying this – the irony is not lost on me that you intimated that this situation may have been caused because the *women* in my family were not strong enough to be good role models.
Are you doing everything that you can? Or are there places that you can improve too?
S
Hey OP Anon – I’ll step in to say thank you for being honest, and no, this forum should not be for those that are perfect – in which case there would be no posts. It can’t be ok to be imperfect in some ways (if you cop to say being overweight, or not exercising, or any number of other things that you’re not doing perfectly, you get sympathy) and not in other ways (say, playing your success down a bit for your spouse’s sake or having scheduled s3.x when you don’t want to, to keep the peace).
Kudos for being honest and recognizing that this is something you are doing just to have a smooth home life for now. And I’m sure your kids as they grow up will see both what a successful woman you are, and what a supportive partner you are.
Anonymous
Sometimes I wish we lied to my in-laws about my income! In their family, women with children lean out, but women without children are breadwinners who allow their husbands to pursue academic or creative careers. We have no children, so there’s a lot of pressure on me to make more money. It’s not the worst thing (at least they’ve given up on pressuring for grandkids), but it was unexpected.
Anonymous
I have a friend who lets everyone know she way out earns her husband and I always think it’s odd. But now, maybe it’s important to put it out there.
My husband WAY out earns me, but is really careful to never bring it up in public. In private he constantly emphasizes that I make a great living and contribute to our household. A few months ago, he mentioned his nephew was going to be in full time daycare. I sneered that it must be nice for my husband’s sister to be a sahm with full time daycare. He called me on it and said I could do that if I wanted to. And I felt like a huge jerk, because I love working even if it’s tough some days.
Anony
My partner and I do not lie about this, either to each other or to anyone else… But many people (including my own family!) assume that he makes more money than me, and I do not correct them. In the case of my family specifically, they are very traditionally minded and would likely be judgemental if they learned that the bill for our very comfortable lifestyle is mostly footed by me.
The funny/sad is that my partner is a writer – he has published a couple books, has consistent freelance work and so is quite successful as far as writers go. But apparently it’s so inconceivable to my family that I would be the primary breadwinner that I frequently get comments from my mother like, “So many writers don’t make much money; you’re so lucky that Partner has done so well and is so talented!!” Yeah Mom, he is talented. Also talented is me, who makes four times as much as he does.
Anonymous
Please correct your mother. Your mother should be your biggest advocate. It makes me sad you allow her to give your husband this credit….
Then again, she is also correct. Most writers trying to write/freelance full time don’t make much money, and your husband probably IS doing well relatively in his field.
It is so funny how we “hear” things, if you know what I mean.
Anony
Believe me, I have thought many times about setting the record straight with her. It would probably be The Right Thing To Do. But… she is set in her ways enough that it would make her think less of my partner, who she currently gets along with quite well. My relationship with her has been challenging my whole life – I’m willing to leave things as they are just to keep the peace.
Frozen Peach
I’m falling off of my chair laughing at “Your mother should be your biggest advocate”
I’m late to this party, but some of the commenters here seem to have really, really great families or a really rosy picture of them. My mom is the single LAST person I would ever look to for support about anything related to my husband. She’s the single biggest judger of the difference in our earning power and our nontraditional gender roles.
Anon
Wait, did I marry your brother? My husband’s a resident. My inlaws know approximately how much residents make and they are BAFFLED by our comfortable lifestyle and constantly make comments about “how can you afford that?” The answer is that I’m a lawyer (which they know!) and make something like 3-4x as much as he does. My husband is super proud of my career and always answers that it’s because I’m successful at work, and yet next time, same question…
Anonymous
Wouldn’t it be fun to tell your in-laws what your paycheck is just to see the look on their faces?
Anonymous
My husband and I are both lawyers. I earn more than my husband, because I work in BigLaw and he works in house, so it’s just the nature of the particular jobs we’re in. I do find myself downplaying how much I make if someone ask, but that is also in part because I don’t live in NYC or another HCOL area, so my salary is an absurd amount for the region I live in.
I don’t think that my husband inflates his salary, I can’t really recall him doing this. I also think that we anticipate I won’t be in biglaw forever, so my salary will drop dramatically and then he might make more.
Anon
We don’t lie about it, but we don’t openly talk about it with family or friends. I think it’s just known though based on industries and job functions that I out earn him by a good bit. For me, I don’t have the mental energy to lie/protect my husband’s “delicate ego” (quotes because he doesn’t actually have one, or if he did it’s probably long gone after a decade with me…) about this kind of stuff.
Leah
Same. It’s pretty obvious that someone in my field would make more than someone in my husband’s field, especially given our similar ages and our levels of education. If one of us were significantly older and had much more work experience, that might muddy the waters a bit, but as it stands it isn’t difficult to guess correctly.
Anon.
I out earn my husband and we are very open about it. Our income levels have varied dramatically, currently I make about 15% more than him; when we were first married I was in big law and making more than double his salary.
When I had the baby, he would regularly shut down coworkers who asked if I was going back to work by saying that if anyone was staying home it would be him because I make more than he does. We don’t discuss specifics with our friends but they know.
Anon
I make more than my husband and I don’t even know the real numbers since we both have variable bonuses. My base is probably a good 70k more and my bonus is a higher percentage. He works long hours and I mostly put in 40 hours a week. He’s a great guy and does his fair share around the house, but I definitely did come across those types of sensitive manbabies who seemed a little taken aback at my profession when I was dating.
Our salaries don’t really ever come up in conversation. I don’t think it’s the way people generally talk in Our part of America. I think we’ve only mentioned it once, when his eight year old nephew said something about husbands making more than wives. My husband was quick to inform him that not only is it not true, but aunt Anon outearns him by a lot.
Ellen
You are so lucky to have a husband in these unsteady economic times. Who care’s if he makes less then you? At least he is working and you have him for moral support, at a minimum.
I am reading articles out of the Harvard Business Review, b/c my dad wants me to sound smart when I meet men. He does NOT want me to rely on my looks, which have helped me so far, but now that I am in my LATE 30’s, I am not as pretty as I was 15 years ago, and I have a tuchus that dad says is a liability. He is probably right, so I am trying to rely more on my brains then my boobies.
Here’s an article I recommend to the hive.
https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/4-ways-managers-can-exercise-their-agency-to-change-the-world?cid=wk-rss
At Harvard Business School, passions and ideas revolve around ways to harness the power of business to address some of society’s most significant problems, not as a separate part of employees’ lives—businessperson by day, volunteer by night—but as an integrated whole, working in a profitable company that also does the world good.
I think maybe I should go for an MBA at Harvard Business School. Dad was an adjunct there and he says I can get in with his say-so. What does the HIVE think? Should a lawyer like me waste time on an MBA? I am kind of thinking yes, especialy if I can find a man there! YAY!!!
anon
People actually talk about how much they make in public? That was definitely not how I was raised.
Anonymous
Right?? I mean I think most people can guess that a lawyer makes more than a teacher or whatever, but I would never discuss salary numbers with anyone who’s not my spouse.
Anonymous
I agree but my husband is much more likely to discuss salary and home prices. I think he’s stopped since I told him he’s like Dwight in that office episode.
Anonymous
Do you guys really openly discuss your incomes with family / friends?
This must be something that wealthy folks do more? My circles are not lawyers/finance/big money jobs and never once has anyone talked about their income. I’m with more teachers/academics/arts folks and some doctors. No one in my family ever asks about your income.
Lana Del Raygun
In my circles we don’t discuss income as such, but it comes up when we’re talking about childcare, “should I lean in/out,” “how do you decide how much to give to charity,” things like like.
Anonymous
I’m an ex-lawyer and when I left law, my grandmother demanded (via my dad) to know my salary in my new industry. He told her he didn’t know, so she called me and I told her it was none of her business. She me that all my cousins told her their salaries and I said “that’s fine, but I don’t discuss my salary with anyone [except my husband]” and she threw a hissy fit. She claims she knew my law salary, but I never told anyone and the number she quoted to me was pretty far off. So yes, there are people that ask and want to discuss it. But I think it’s super rude.
Anonymous
Where I live 80% of people work for the government and salaries are public information so you know what everybody is making.
Anonymous
so you look up people’s salaries? Really?
Anonymous
Um, yes. It helps when you are trying to make a move in the government and understand what the impact would be to your income.
Anonymous
No, but it’s super common knowledge what each level makes. So if someone says they’re an EC7 (and people love talking about their levels) or whatever you have an idea of their salary range.
cake batter
I absolutely look up people’s salaries, no shame whatsoever. It helps me make informed decisions about my own salary negotiations and the going rate for certain positions. Ex. Agency A is paying $ for their current chief of staff, I need to ask for $ at Agency B.
Anonymous
I would imagine it’s more like you already know what a GS 12 vs GS 13 vs whatever makes (because you also work in gov’t so you looked it up for your own benefit), so when you know Alice, Bill, and Cary are at a GS-13, you know what they make.
Anonny
The EC bit makes me think we might be in the same city in the same circle.
Anonymous
I can understand looking up the salary of the previous person to hold a position you’re interviewing for or people who hold similar positions, but looking up your friends’ salaries is a whole different ballgame and pretty creepy IMO. A friend looked up my house purchase price on Zillow and made a comment about it to me and I was very weirded out.
Anonymous
Anonny: Hi, fellow Ottawan. :) I’m not in the government myself but most of my friends are.
Seafinch
As an Ottawan who not only works for the government but also wears a uniform and has a rank, everyone knows what I make and what everyone else makes. Likewise, because my husband also wears a uniform and is not a lawyer, everyone knows I make more than him and will unless he gets promoted to General. All anyone has to do is google “regular force officer rates”.
DCR
With my (current and former) BigLaw friends, we discuss income and finances very openly. This is probably because we became friends and started talking about this stuff when it was very well known how much everyone made since BigLaw is on a scale. Every now that people have now left BigLaw, we still talk about this stuff and I think it has benefited us. For example, I knew how to negotiate a higher salary in government because a few of my friends had discussed what they did when they moved to government. (And I also don’t mind telling people what I make since it is all public after a few years anyways.) And I have a sense of what different non-profits pay because I’ve discussed it with friends.
Anonymous
Also, meant to add, I don’t discuss salary much with friends in other fields, since it is not as relevant or helpful. But do still discuss financial advice, since how else are you suppose to learn
Maudie Atkinson
I definitely talk to friends in the same field (law) about compensation. Firstly, it’s relevant because it helps me make sure I’m not being undercompensated. Secondly, though, I think women especially ought to be more comfortable talking about money because it matters. I’m not suggesting we should all be talking about it in a showy, look-at-me way, or that there’s any benefit to counting other people’s money, but I think the (WASP-y) tendency to never talk about hamstrings women in really practical ways.
Another anon
Most of my friends have publicly available salaries and I absolutely talk to my close friends about it in the sense that we discuss promotions, job moves, kids, additional pets, home purchases, retirement saving, etc., and what those mean as a result of and for our incomes. I out earn all of my friends because government vs. private, but I am not a jerk about it.
I don’t see it as a big deal and if it helps any of my female friends who go into the private sector when they are negotiating, that would be awesome.
cake batter
+1 I only discuss salaries with folks who won’t judge and if I think it will help them in their own career decisions/salary negotiations. With people in my line of work (esp women) I absolutely talk about what I make and how I’ve earned raises so they can use that info/strategy to their benefit.
Never too many shoes...
I am Greek, so yes, my family has always known how much I make and how much my husband makes. It eases their minds to know we are doing well and it is a totally normal conversation in our culture.
My work friends talk about money regularly, but our firm salaries are based on your year of call so there is nothing secret about it.
My husband earns slightly less than me right now, but I will outearn him significantly over the course of our careers. He could not possibly care any less than he already does – it is our money for our family.
Legally Brunette
Lol, I’m Indian and my parents/inlaws have always point blank asked me how much I make. They don’t consider this rude in the slightest.
Anonymous
Ugh same. One trait I wish would have vanished after decades of living here because they don’t think it’s rude to ask and then make judgments based on salaries. I am the one person in the family who went into public service and I’m seen as the failure to launch by my parents and by a gold digger by my husband’s parents (he’s a physician).
Tambr
I think there’s a lot of variation even among Indians, because in my family (from South India) it is considered rude to ask about money and nobody (not even my parents) has ever asked me how much I make or how much we bought our house for, etc. When I got my first job offer I told my parents my salary and they were all “that’s fine and we want you to be comfortable but as long as it’s good enough, you dont have to tell us”.
LaurenB
I don’t think it’s the norm among wealthy people. I also think it’s unspeakably tacky. The only people who need to know what I make are me, my spouse, and our accountant. If other people wish to speculate, that’s on them.
Anonymous
My husband and I now make almost exactly the same amount or he sometimes makes more (he earns overtime pay so on busy weeks he outearns me.) But for most of our 13- year marriage I have made more than him, typically double what he made. He even took a few years off of work when our children were small to stay home with him. He also does more than his fair share of the housework, even though he works more than I do now. He has never been ashamed that I made more and has always been very proud and supportive of me. We have always seen our money as shared money and if someone is earning more than it is good for the family.
He is also traditionally masculine but grew up with non-traditional gender roles. (especially for the time, place, and culture he grew up in–an immigrant family in a red state.) His dad was retired and his mom, who was much younger, was working. So his dad did much of the child care and household chores so that was always normal to him.
Anon
This is where I feel that it’s important to completely combine finances (no “his” and “hers” money). Men still need to grow the f up, but if you’re constantly delineating who made what and who pays for what, it puts disparities in your face all the time.
Lana Del Raygun
Yeah, I definitely agree that having joint accounts helps with this a lot.
Anon
Why is it more important to do this when the woman is the top earner than when the man is the top earner?
Anon
It’s not. I completely support combining finances no matter who is the top earner.
AIMS
This is all so interesting! One thing I have noticed in my own life/circle is that when a couple combines finances, the men will still more often pay a bill with their joint credit card even though it obviously makes no difference. So I guess IME it’s not so much a matter of lying about it because I rarely discuss money with people unless it’s in some appropriate context like starting salaries, etc., but it still manifests in other ways like who “picks up” the check or whose name the hotel room is reserved under.
FWIW, in my relationship, it’s fluctuated – I used to make more and now I make less but have better benefits and none of it ever made a difference one way or another except for about 10 minutes when I got a raise the first time that made me earn more and I think he was just sort of surprised? Like he maybe didn’t realize that we wouldn’t always make the same amount.
Lana Del Raygun
Oh this is interesting! I always take things like names on hotel rooms to indicate more who’s on top of the planning. I don’t want my name on everything because I don’t want to keep track of it all!
Rainbow Hair
Oh funny! I always let my husband ‘get’ the check at dinner (unless he’s like, wrangling the kid or something) even though it’s all coming from the same pot, because I don’t particularly like doing it. But I do notice that when we’re out with other guy/girl couples, it’s usually the guys who reach for their cards to split the checks… hm.
AIMS
Right, but why do you not like doing it? I often default to that too but why.. Because the check is still more often “brought” to the man? Because I want the server to think I’m getting treated to lunch? Because I don’t want to do math? Yesterday we had a lunch date and I “paid” and it was actually sort of fun to go “I got this” even though the real reason was I still had my card in my pocket from this morning and it was easily accessible. Before kids, we mostly kept separate finances and just took unofficial turns picking up the check so I rarely thought about it beyond “I should get this one” but now that it makes no difference it’s interesting how we’ve been defaulting to certain norms.
Anon
Interesting! Notice the same.
Anonymous
Historically, I have usually paid because I have more experience going to restaurants and using credit cards growing up. I’ve noticed the same pattern among couples where the wife has more middle-class social capital than her husband. I’ve noticed that it’s more random now though (whoever is paying attention when the server walks up).
Ellen
Yes, I read the article and even tho I am NOT married, I faced the same issue with Sheketovits, who was my boyfriend. I was making more money then him even when I was serving subpeenies b/c he was generaly out of a job and living in my apartement, watching TV and stinking up the batheroom. FOOEY! I never brought up money b/c he was NOT working, but resented that he would send me out for food when he was laying around the apartement all day. He did not want to pay for anything — even our birthe control had to be paid for by ME, and I got virtually nothing pleasureable out of it b/c he was terrible in bed and cared ONLEY about pleasing himself. DOUBEL FOOEY! I am so glad I dumped his sorry tuchus, b/c now I at least have a chance on finding a man who is decent to me. Not this looser that I’d find half drunk in my bed when I got home. TRIPEL FOOEY!
Anonymous
Hubs and I are almost equal to the dollar right now but in a few months if all goes well I will be out earning him by about 40% and I am so excited. Because it means more money for US, and that WE will be able to buy a house sooner.
nuqotw
I make 4x – 5x what spouse makes and we don’t downplay it between us because who earns what is financially important to our security, long-term plans, etc. He has some health issues that are unlikely to affect his ability to work (he’s a lawyer, self-employed, working mostly with lower-middle income folks) but if something were to happen to him, it’s important that I bring in enough for the whole family.
It seems obvious to me, my immediate family, and his immediate family that I make more, and probably a lot more, but recently someone outside of that circle asked him what he did for a living, and then asked me whether my job is full time. Grr.
nuqotw
To be clear, I would be thrilled if spouse earned more than I did. We do just fine, but neither of us would say no to another $10K (or more).
Torin
I don’t think I know any couples who hide this fact when it’s true. Or maybe I don’t know my friends as well as I think I do.
Anonymous
Well, my Friend and her Husband are the exception. He’s a banker making six figures but she outearns him 2-2.5x plus her job has far more prestige. Yet they’re both open about it and he has no problem joking about how he’d love to be a kept man…
FWIW, they’re South Asian…and don’t live in the States.
lawsuited
I’ve always been honest about the fact that I earn more than my husband (as opposed to lying and saying I don’t), but generally avoid talking about my income or my husband’s income with people. I used to feel a twinge of….something (embarrassment for my husband? worried that I’d be perceived as throwing him under the bus?) when talking about it but no longer feel anything.
My husband and I have always been completely matter-of-fact about me earning more, and do not skirt around the issue at all. In our discussions about buying a house, childcare, etc. we openly acknowledge that my job needs to take precedence because I am the higher earner.
Anonymous
This. I out-earn my husband, but since we work at essentially identical places (in law), the general perception (I believe) is that we likely earn nearly the same thing. I wouldn’t lie about it if asked, but it’s truly never come up in a way that I felt I needed to correct.
Anon
I make 4x my husband’s salary. My close friends know I’m the breadwinner. I think it’s obvious to outsiders based on what we do for a living. I don’t go around talking about my salary but I would certainly never lie about it to anyone.
Anonymous
Same.
Senior Attorney
In my first two marriages I was a MidLaw lawyer and they were a teacher and a tradesman in the TV industry, respectively, so I think everybody assumed I out-earned them, which I did. In my last marriage I went to great lengths to do more around the house to make up for the sin of being the high earner, which I understand is fairly common.
My current husband is a partner in a two-man law firm and I’m in government and who earns more in a given year depends a lot on the vagaries of his business. The first year we were married I out-earned him by quite a bit but last year he smoked me in that department. I suspect our friends assume he’s the high earner but it’s not something we discuss.
TX-IHC
Husband is in a very transparent/lockstep industry so when we hang out with his friends or coworkers, they all know what he makes. Many of the coworkers’ wives SAH or are teachers, and especially with no kids yet the differences in our lifestyle are apparent. Husband enjoys joking that I am his sugar mama and I appreciate the recognition.
The balance is likely to start tipping toward him being the primary breadwinner and mostly I think we will both just be happy for our total HHI to go up! So while Husband’s salary is published, no one else knows specifically what I make, including our families.
Anon
Friends assume that my husband makes way more than me. In fact, in the 10 years we’ve been together we have been anywhere from equal to me significantly out-earning him every year. 2018 will be the first year that he significantly out-earns me (and I’m very proud of how hard he has worked to grow his business to get there).
Agreed that I really don’t get these guys who are so threatened by it—possibly because my dad is incredibly feminist. As he always says in response to this kind of thing: “When your wife makes more money than you, then your household has more money. What’s not to like?”
Anonymous
That quote from your dad is exactly how my husband feels.
busybee
Right? Like this is all marital money–who cares who is making most of it as long as it pays our mortgage and takes us on a vacation every now and then?? This thread is all so baffling to me.
Anonymous
I think pregnancy is scary to men, and they feel that they need to be able support their wife and child if something goes terribly wrong and their wife is unable to continue working. I don’t know if the stats support this outlook or not.
Anonymous
Isn’t that what life insurance is for? I think this is about the male ego, not a fear that the wife dies or gets seriously disabled in childbirth.
anon
When asked about this, my husband always states that his salary goal is to make more than my tax bill.
Anonymous
love this!
Anonymous
My favorite are the comments from the partners at my husband’s firm that suggest they think he earns more than I do. I am also a lawyer. They know what firm I work at, and it’s one of the largest, most well known in town. They have got to know my firm pays associates (significantly) more than their firm (husband and I are the same year), and yet, the comments persist. Husband’s firm is very traditional, we are not, and it’s a constant source of amusement for us, like living in some weird sociological experiment.
AIMS
I don’t know how you resist saying, “Oh, did you give everyone raises recently?”
I’m surprised they would even make comments about this to you!
Anonymous
It’s subtle things and not always in my presence, like saying to husband (I think somewhat jokingly?) “I didn’t think I was paying you enough for that trip” (Um, you’re not, wife is paying for it) or (not jokingly) “Oh, wife will stay home when you have kids, right?” (1) we’re not having kids and 2) if anyone stays home, it’s him, because I make twice what he does). I usually do make a not-so-subtle quip back if I’m around. Depending on who it is, sometimes you can tell it just goes right over their heads. Then (not related to money) there was the time shortly before we got married that his secretary gave him a cutting board with his last name on it for Christmas and said it was perfect “for his new family” since it never even entered anyone’s mind at the firm that I wasn’t changing my last name.
Anon
I am the highest earner in my home. I recently got back in touch with a cousin whom I have not seen since we were teenagers. We’re the same age. He turned out to have a very traditional lifestyle: large suburban house, 3 kids, SAHW, long commute to work and high paying job. My Mom and I and my infant daughter visited them in their home and I thought his eyebrows would crawl off his face when I was making the excuse for why we were a bit late: had to stop by autoparts and put more oil into my car, which is an old stick shift. Turned out that his wife does not drive. During the visit, my cousin seemed genuinely confused that I made work such a priority (although it seemed like we had lots of crossover in our job descriptions) and couldn’t fathom that it is viscerally important to our lifestyle and that it is actually real work. He literally made the statement that since I have an infant daughter I should be staying at home with her and my husband needs to get a job where his wife (me) doesn’t have to work. In talking to his wife, she mentioned she’s love to do some side work (which is kind of how they perceived my high stress corporate management job) but she is still struggling with English (we’re all immigrants a long time ago). It was honestly an eye opening experience. They have 3 boys and I shudder to think what misogynistic a-holes these sweet kids are bound to become. Needless to say, we fell out of touch again pretty quickly.
Chicago Recs
We are going to Chicago for two nights in August as a getaway (no kids!). Looking for food recommendations! We’re staying downtown but only need one dinner downtown (either before or after Hamilton). Otherwise willing to go all over town for good food, and we are open to all suggestions. So the best I can tell, I’d like (1) dinner recs for the Hamilton night (2) your favorite Indian food places (we love Indian food and our town does not have a lot of options) and (3) anything else you think we shouldn’t miss. Sorry for the vagueness, thanks in advance!
Anon
No specific Indian recs, but check out Devon St for Indian food and groceries (in case you want to stock up on ingredients to make your own at home). Au Cheval/Small Cheval are Chicago favorites. Consider also Publican. I like Fig and Olive in River North a lot for brunch.
ANP
Ahhhhh Hamilton! So fun. I’ve seen it twice in Chicago and ate at RPM Italian both times. I am usually a try-all-the-places foodie, but RPM was so delicious and so fresh I had to go back. I second the recommendation for Devon Street for Indian food (and supplies), too.
Activities: if you’re willing to go off the beaten path, I love the Garfield Park Conservatory. I also think the Shedd is fun with or without kids, but since you’re kid free you might want to consider the MCA (Museum of Contemporary Art) instead. Adulting: have a cocktail in the Signature Room bar at the top of the John Hancock Building for great views; even though the drinks are pricey, it’s way cheaper than admission to the viewing deck.
Anonymous
For the hamilton night, go have drinks (or an early snack/dinner) at Cindy’s, on top of the Chicago Athletic Club. Make sure you have a reservation- it gets crazy up there- but the views and people watching are worth it!
Lilliet
And have dinner after at Swift & Sons! That would be an amazing night!
First anon above
Agree! Cindy’s is great.
Anonymous
I would not make a special trip to Devon St. for Indian food. That area is way way way way out of your way and is not worth the trip if you are only here for 2 days. Indian food is not spectacular in Chicago, and I would never recommend it, but if you are from somewhere where you can’t ever get it….. and you have to eat it….. find a place more central so you wont waste half a day going to Devon.
I’d recommend having the buffet at Indian Garden which is right in the heart of downtown Chicago. Pretty good and will satisfy your craving. Easy to walk to if you are spending a day downtown, or a quick taxi/uber/bus/train ride.
I would recommend spending one day downtown. I would go to the Art Institute and see the new wing in the morning, then walk through Millenium Park just North of the Art Institute and see the Bean/sculptures, and then keep walking North to the River and take one of the Architectural Society of Chicago boat tours. Then after that, walk further North on the Magnificent Mile (Michigan Ave) doing window shopping and eat at the indian place. Those are all essential things to do.
anon.
Great advice. Thanks.
Minnie Beebe
For Indian food: Devon St is wonderful, but also really far from downtown. India Garden is a good choice. Also, I’d recommend either Jaipur, on Randolph St in the West Loop, or Cumin, in Wicker Park. Jaipur is standard Indian restaurant fare, in a fancy setting (food is delicious, I’d consider it high end for Indian) and Cumin is Nepalese style – not as high end of a setting as Jaipur, but the food is so, so good.
Have a great visit!
Little Goat
We love the French Toast (and the Corned Beef/Hasbrowns)!
anon
this suit made me immediately think of Cher in Clueless.
Anonymous
+1, I’m so fancy
Anonymous
+2 especially with the model’s long blonde hair
Leah
So glad I scrolled before saying the exact same thing!
Houndstooth makes my eyes cross.
Anonymous
I kind of love it for this reason!
Anonymous
Same. I love it too. If it were black and not navy, I’d probably buy the jacket.
Anonymous
Oh it’s navy?! Now I might go full suit. I’ve been a journey(wo)man lower court litigator for a decade and I’m just over the boring suits!
Senior Attorney
Wait, what? It’s navy?
OMG now I may have to buy it so it can be friends with my B&W houndstooth suit…
Anonymous
Haha!! My dad has several seersucker suits that are quite chummy.
On Professional Water Bottles: An In-depth study
How do you put upcoming publications and presentations on your resume/CV? For example, I had a proposal accepted for presentation in November, but will be applying for jobs before then. Do I put “Accepted for presentation at ‘Rette Con November 2018,” instead of “Presented at ‘Rette Con November 2017” or should I not include it at all until after I’ve actually presented.
Same question for publications. If I’ve had a paper accepted for publication in a journal that isn’t scheduled to come out for a month or two, can I go ahead and add it to my resume as “Accepted for publication in October 2018 Journal of Fleece Tights” or do I have to wait until the publication is actually released?
Lana Del Raygun
You can definitely include things that have been accepted but haven’t happened yet! I believe for publications the convention is “in press,” “forthcoming,” or “accepted,” so my instinct is to also use “accepted” for presentations.
Anonymous
“Forthcoming” is conventional for publications (look for it on the resumes/CVs of mentors to get an example of how it’s used in your professional community). I don’t know the verbiage for an accepted future conference presentation, but it’s definitely okay to include it.
AnonyMOUSE
At least in APA, the convention for upcoming presentations is to say (date of presentation). Paper “to be presented at the Annual Meeting of XXX”.
Anonymous
No, this is false. “Forthcoming” and “accepted” are two very different things.
Anonymous
I was unclear. They are absolutely two very different things.
Anon
Love the Easter egg!
January
Me too. I would also read these articles, if they existed. :)
Nesprin
For papers I split my journal publication sections up into published/in press and in revision. When I had fewer papers and wanted to make that section look bigger it was: Nesprin et al. Paper title. In review at Journal of X 2018. My field lumps in press or in galley proofs aka accepted in with published.
Presentations I’d wait to put on CV, but my field (hard sciences) takes presentations way less seriously than papers, and I have enough presentations that one more won’t make or break me.
BTW all of this is specific to CVs- resumes get a section titled “selected papers (of #)” and 1-2 relevant listings.
Albuquerque recommendations
Reposting this from yesterday afternoon in hopes of getting a few more opinions (the afternoon threads seem quite dead these days). Thanks for those who did respond!
I’m going to Albuquerque next week for a quick work trip and have never been before. I have a late afternoon/evening free and 2-3 hours in a morning free. I’m thinking I want to do 2 things: go see the sunset from the Sandias and go to Petroglyph National Monument. Two questions related to this: for the Sandias, should I drive up the scenic highway to the crest, or take the tram? Which area has better views for sunset? And for Petroglyph, I think I’ll only have time for 1 trail–which is the best (and fine to hike solo on, though it’ll be a weekend morning and I assume therefore plenty of people around)? Thanks!
tree
Both the Tram and the crest trail are great – but I prefer the scenic highway. The drive is pretty and is forested in many parts and just has a different feel from ABQ in general. Petroglyph has easy hikes (i’d do this in the morning when it’s a bit cooler) and all the trails are pretty flat and well maintained, I’ve done Rinconada Canyon twice.
If you decide to mix it up and want to stay closer to center of town, the Sandia Mountains offer many great (and more challenging) hikes. Tramway Trail and Pino Trail are my most frequented (you can find hiking trail info at w w w dot sandia hiking dot com). As was said yesterday, bring lots of water and if you’re not from another altitude town, be careful hiking up there and listen to your body!
Have fun!!
Louis Vuitton Neverfull
Classic or tacky? I can’t decide. I sort of want one and then I talk myself out of it. Thoughts?
CC Cream
What’s your favorite CC cream? I’ve been using Clinique Moisture Surge CC for years, essentially since BB/CC creamsc ame out. But its $40, and I’d like to try something new and hopefully cheaper.
anon
Not cheaper but I love, love, love It Cosmetics CC cream. It comes in a matte and illuminating formula; I use the illuminating. It’s full coverage, but doesn’t feel like full coverage foundation.
Anonymous
+1
lawsuited
+1 IT Cosmetics is where it’s at for CC creams (although I use the regular, not illuminating).
TX-IHC
+1 and it has a very high level of SPF
Anon
IT will unfortunately not work if you lean pink and pale. Their lightest shades are very yellow.
anonym-mouse
+1 wanted to love it but made me look like an anemic Simpson.
NOLA
The color worked for me, but the physical SPF (or something in it?) did not. Made my eyes water for days.
Anonymous
Oh…I was all excited to answer this because I love mine, but it’s definitely not cheaper. I use Smashbox CC cream. I love it.
Anonymous
2nd Smashbox. Great light coverage that is long-lasting. I actually sometimes mix it with the IT Cosmetics CC , which I have in a slightly lighter color, based on my current tan. I dont do the IT alone because it wears off before lunch.
Anonymous
Lumene. It’s the only I’ve found that’s not too dark or yellow for my very, very fair Irish/German skin.
Torin
Nyx. I tried several drug-store brands and theirs is almost as good as the fancy stuff, imho, and much cheaper. No SPF though, if that matters to you.
Anonymous
Maybelline Dream Fresh BB cream. Dirt cheap and I like it better than Laura Mercier.
Hollis
My brother is serving the armed forces and is currently deployed in Iraq. Would love to send him a care package. He normally likes drink mix powders (Gatorade), snacks like granola bars, and paperbacks. For paperbacks, I’m considering boys on the boat or the Martian (for a mental getaway). Any other suggestions or recommendations from this awesome community?
Anonymous
What type of books does he normally like to read? If it was my brother, I would be sending a ton of graphic novels because that is what he likes.
oopii
Dried fruit/nuts. I liked the Martian.
Lana Del Raygun
I dunno, if I were in Iraq, I think I would lean away from “men survive in a hostile environment, barely” stories.
mascot
Agreed, unless you know that’s what he likes. How about some thriller types (does David Baldacci have anything out? Grisham?) or Stephen King?
I really enjoyed the book I Am Pilgrim- but it may be way too close since it is about bio-terrorism .
Anonymous
My husband likes Clive Cussler paperbacks.
If you’re up for spending a little more (damn, you just missed prime day!) I’d send a basic kindle, loaded with a bunch of books- that way you can keep loading as he finishes them. Granted, the paperbacks would allow him to share and pass on books as he finishes them.
Anon
My husband read a lot of Harry Potter and similar books when he was deployed. Maybe the Shattered Seas trilogy by Joe Abercrombie, the Chaos Walking series by Patrick Ness, or A Song of Ice and Fire would be hits?
TorontoNewbie
From my experience:
– Crystal Light mix (a variety of flavours is important)
– hard candies
– easy reading (a complete series if you know an author he likes)
– jerky
– dried fruits/nuts
– biscotti / shortbread / gingersnaps (hard things)
– dehydrated soups
– magazines (no p o rn)
– gum
– cigarettes (if allowed)
anne-on
We had a family member deployed and popular things to include in care packages were stuff that you’d think is popular for college kids – powdered drink mixes/peanut butter/jams/easy mac/ramen/jerky/nuts/lara bars – basically filling stuff in case you missed mealtimes or are sick of MREs. We also tried to throw in non-melty candy (gum, lolipops, gummy candy, etc.). Toiletries were also GREATLY appreciated – baby wipes/small bottles of shampoo and conditioner (I collected extras when I traveled, the hotels were almost always SUPER happy to give me a few extra sets of toiletries when I told them who it was for), vitamins, soap, good quality band aids (especially the blister ones).
embees
When my sister was deployed, I mailed a package of magazines each month; did an initial “hey what do folks like” to get an idea of what might be popular and then sent an assortment. She said magazines were great because they can be passed around/shared but tossed with zero guilt.
Anon
In addition to all the great suggestions here, what about one of those mini foam roller balls or sticks to deal with tight muscles?
Anonymous
Iraq and Afghanistan vet here, though I was there a decade ago now.
Yes, magazines are really popular. For a guy, ESPN would be good, esp as we head into college football season.
For books, John Grisham can be good because it’s so engrossing and so removed from anything going on. I remember reading a book with something as simple as people going to the grocery store. In normal clothes. In a normal car. And it was so great to feel that total escape.
I found I really, really missed the terrain of home. Even if you’re in an area that’s relatively green (and they are rare), nature from home was so soothing. So a calendar with nature pictures, if he doesn’t have one already.
In addition to the foam rollers above, icy hot could be very appreciated.
Anon
Adding, although this is controversial–when I last worked with veteran classmates to send care packages to Iraq, they sent many of the things listed above, but the guys also really wanted dip/chew. They have to keep weird hours, and the armed forces will not pay for tobacco, so it’s appreciated.
NYC Girl
protein powder, italian appetizer platter (canned olives, cured/dried sausages, hard cheeses that don’t require refrigeration, and crackers), homemade cookies (they will be slightly stale but still very appreciated!)
I believe packages that go overseas to military do not go through same customs process, so you can send meat/dairy… at least mine with these items usually get through!
Anonymous
I LOVED The Boys in the Boat. Good choice.
JB
When my brother in law was over there he loved anything from nuts.com. Great non-perishable foods and lots of spicy options, if that is his thing,
a lawyer
When my nephew was in Afghanistan (Marine infantry), he liked sci-fi fantasy books. I’m more of a David Baldacci type (Amos Decker series is good). Longmire is a western series (author Craig Johnson) that most guys like but is not military type violent. Other miscellaneous favorites: baby wipes, Kind type bars, Bear Bars (all fruit), and items like a tuna-garlic mix with crackers (all in one package). The tuna was a HUGE success towards the end of his deployment. I think they just got sick of MRE’s and camp food.
Amazon prime is your friend here. Also saline eye drops and specific gun cleaning cloths (remington, I think) if he is in infantry.
Anonymous
I sent cookie mixes from Target (assuming they have butter that can be mixed in & an oven). And I sent banners from Target if the time overlapped with a missed holiday (Christmas)
Skype Interviewee
I am interviewing next week for a Chief of Staff/Government Relations position at a regional public university (not a state flagship). The interviews for this round will be conducted via Skype. My husband does videography/photography and is going to do what he can to set me up with good lighting/camera angle/etc. to ensure I look my best. Does anyone have any suggestions as far as attire?
My expectation is that I will be seen at most from the waist up. I don’t want to look too “buttoned-up”, but obviously need to look professional. I should mention that I am 31 and will be interviewing in a mid-size Southern town, and most of my initial interviewers will likely be from this area.
Veronica Mars
I’d do a standard interview outfit (just in case you need to stand up) with a jewel-tone or solid colored blouse underneath. If you’re comfortable with falsies, I’d wear a pair as well, since it will bring out your eyes and not look over the top on camera.
anon
If this was in-person, you’d wear a suit (or dress and jacket, right?). I’d go with that. It seems like there would be some call in this position to have to dress business formal so doing so in an interview wouldn’t be weird.
anon a mouse
Solids are your friend – no busy prints. A simple necklace like pearls. Go slightly heavier on makeup/lip color since the screen will wash you out a little. Also pay attention to your background (it sounds like you are on top of the background/lighting aspect).
I’d actually recommend wearing whatever you would wear to an interview, even though you will be sitting down. A friend once did a skype interview and wore her shell and blazer with yoga pants. Wouldn’t you know it, she had to get up at one point to adjust the lighting. She doesn’t think they could tell they were yoga pants but point is, assume your whole body might be on camera and dress like it.
kk
I’d avoid patterns- they can repeat and wiggle on camera, and be distracting. If it were me, I’d wear a collarless blazer (the MM jardigan maybe) over a silk collarless shell or a solid color dress- that way it reads as if you’re clearly dressed up, but you don’t have any patterns/ruffles/collars that could lay funny and read differently on camera. Look at what serious lady news anchors wear (not the today show ladies) and you’ll see a lot of super streamlined minimalist pieces, in solid colors.
Fishie
I’d wear a black jacket with a solid color blouse underneath in a neutral or the school’s main color.
appliance woes
Do these last anymore? 4 year old Samsung dryer needed to be replaced and washer purchased same time (front loader) had shocks go out twice in 4 years and the door lock fail/replaced once. Refrigerator (bottom freezer, top French doors) had fan malfunction twice in 4 years. Repair guys say basically “ain’t what they used to be.” Trying to be environmentally conscious but this is a joke! (FYI 2 adults no kids using)
samsung makes tvs
Our Samsung W/D were pieces of junk. We replaced them with Maytag/Kenmore. Our whirlpool fridge is aging nicely as well.
Anonymous
meanwhile, we JUST replaced our fridge (which was 25 years old), and our 25-year old microwave, stove and oven are STILL going strong (but had to replace oven motherboard a couple years ago, which cost $200). Dishwasher also lasted about 18 years before we replaced it. It’s all GE, it was top of the line back in the day and has certainly paid for itself. It’s such a shame that things are made that way anymore.
Anonymous
Yeah, that is crazy.
Agree that our boring Kenmores work well and last. My parents have literally had the same Kenmore appliances for 25-30 years. No issues.
BB
Didn’t Samsung have a bunch of issues with their appliances though? I have Electrolux washer/dryer and it’s been perfect for 2 years so far. I stayed away from the Samsung ones because of the reviews.
Gail the Goldfish
I think some of it is just the amount of technology and delicate circuits and whatnot that goes into things now gives it more of an opportunity to break. My annoying top loading washing machine gets stuck on spin/rinse cycles and, while I need to get a repair person to look at it, internet research suggests it’s either because loads get unbalanced and it adds water to try to fix it or it’s still “sensing suds.” The washing machines back in the day didn’t have the technology to try to rebalance themselves or rinse until they were free of suds or whatever–they’d just make a horrible racket until you went in fixed it. Or like someone the other day was complaining about how much more expensive cars are to fix now with all the fancy electronics. Can you even buy a low tech appliance anymore?
Gail the Goldfish
*went in and fixed it. Sigh typos.
Ellen
Yes, Dad swear’s by Kenmore, tho he said that these days, he says it is probable they make them somewhere OUTSIDE the USA. FOOEY he says b/c he is a big proponent of US manufactured goods, and does NOT like it when he finds out some body else made it. I thnk he does NOT know most of his clotheing is made overseas, tho he shops primarily at Brook’s brother.
Rosa has a washer dryer that is always working b/c her kids get dirty all the time and one is STILL not potty trained so she uses her clotheing to make poopie. FOOEY I say b/c I never know when I pick her up whether or not she is loaded. When she is, I immediately give her to Rosa’s nannie to clean up.
anon a mouse
FWIW, I’ve heard bad things about Samsung. But I recently bought a new LG w/d and spent the extra for the extended warranty. It’s probably a bad financial decision but I want to guarantee that I get five years out of it!
When I was researching I read to get the fewest electronic/smart features possible. It was impossible to find a washer/dryer with the other features I wanted that didn’t have “smart” features but I don’t plan on ever using them. My dryer doesn’t need WiFi programming, FFS.
anne-on
Our very $$ Samsung lasted maybe 3 years, total piece of junk. The repair guys strongly suggested we go for Whirlpool brands, in his experience they have the fewest problems.
Leah
Highly recommend Speed Queen washers and dryers. We have a no-frills top loading workhorse set (like the industrial models you’d see in a laundromat) and in a decade we’ve done nothing more than preventative maintenance (replacing the water lines and greasing the dryer drum).
anon
This. Speed Queen is built to last. It doesn’t have all the fancy gizmos that break in two years.
Lilly
Second this recommendation. I think they quit making the fully mechanical no electronics washer at the end of last year. It would be worth the effort to look around for a small town pokey little appliance shop with low volume business to try to find one of those. Also, the Speed Queen is, in fact, Speedy. I can have a load of laundry washed and dried in an hour.
Anonymous
My Speed Queen washer makes me unreasonably happy. It is basic, solid, built to last, and fast. It cleans much better than my pricey Samsung did, too.
Anon
Speed Queen!!!! yes yes yes it’s the only brand W/D that is decent anymore. Get it before it’s gone (and tariffs make it that much more expensive!)
Anon
Don’t buy Samsung. It’s crap. I’m in the middle of trying to get a 3 month old refrigerator fixed and they have been impossible to deal with, to the point that I think they are hoping to hassle me until the warranty expires. I finally got an appointment and they no-showed. I had to go through the hassle of contacting them again and they told me they had called me back to schedule the time (which I had already scheduled and had a confirming email) but couldn’t reach me. Which was a total lie because they have my cell phone number and i have no missed calls or voicemails from them. It turns out they outsource their repairs in my area to a local company who doesn’t necessarily honor the appointment times Samsung provides, and has horrible, horrible ratings on yelp. I despair!
Also look up Samsung’s patent infringement history and how the government of Korea protects them from any consequences.
Anonymous
I’ve vowed never to buy Samsung appliances again for this reason.
Anonymous
How in the world does Samsung get such good reviews? We just bought a Samsung washer that was top rated on Consumer’s reports and from Costco, that in general sells good quality. So far so good, but only 6 months in.
Brussels?
Does anyone know anything about living in Brussels, Belgium? I have been approached for an opportunity that looks interesting. I visited once and it seemed nice enough but I don’t know much about it. I’m in a large city in Canada and would be bringing my husband along (no children yet).
Anonymous
I lived in Brussels for a year as an ex-pat and had a great experience! There is a good ex-pat community and Brussels is a great central location for traveling throughout Europe. The International School is also absolutely wonderful if you do stay and end up having children. I miss the farmer’s markets (best rotisserie chicken ever) and the beautiful forests.
Mineallmine
For Brussels – I lived there 3 years, now in the UK 3 years. Brussels is great and I highly recommend living there a few years. It’s also very frustrating with the insane bureaucracy and limited shop hours. It helps if you speak even basic French because it’s still very telephone oriented rather than internet friendly. For example, you will always need to call the restaurant to make bookings (and you always make bookings there), the water company has no English option, and even the police didn’t speak English unless s/he is Flemish. There was very little online shopping making the limited shop hours even more difficult. I saved a lot of money there but had to plan every Saturday for all my food, etc, shopping. I found the culture shock to be there worst when it came to the very anti-consumer contracts and laws (see a recent Flandersnews article about gym memberships). But there are beautiful things about Brussels and is probably one of the easiest places in Europe to be an expat, so if you and your hubby are adventurous, go for it! Just definitely make sure your new job will pay for relocation and assistance with the visas and housing. good luck!
Anon
I was on assignment there for about 3 months. Love Love Loved it. Probably didn’t stay long enough to have good recs for you, but excited for you.
Anon Lawyer
How long would you stay in a new job before looking for something else? I’ve seen similar posts on this earlier this week. I spent about 5 years at my previous job and I’ve been at my new job for about 4 months. I think I hate it. I don’t know if it’s a bad fit or if I’m just having trouble with the transition but I started exploring job postings. I’m just not sure if its too soon.
Anonymous
I just went through this. Left a job and realized pretty quickly I was miserable. I decided to stick it out til 6 months and then gave myself permission to job hunt. But things changed at my job (my boss left) and things got better so now I’m going to stay another 6 months and then reevaluate. If you’re really miserable though, or it’s affecting your mental health, there’s no shame in having a little blip on your resume. It happens to everybody.
Anon
I think 6 months is fine in your situation, especially since you spent 5 years at your previous job. Also, keep in mind that if you start looking at stuff now, depending on what field you are in, you may very well be interviewing at the 6 month mark, so now may be a good time.
Full disclosure: I worked at a job for 6 months out of law school at a state agency that had an absolutely toxic work environment. No one asked any questions about why I was leaving when I interviewed after 6 months– the job I was in is generally thought of as a “temporary” job anyway, etc. Now, I’m moving from my current firm for another one after three years, and while that job did come up in that interview, no one batted an eye about the 6 month stint.
Get Me Outta Here
Trying to do this now. I applied to a few jobs on the 1 year anniversary of my current job (accepted at the end of my last role after a relo)…and I’m in the final rounds of interviews for one of them this week. No idea how it will turn out, but a data point for you.
Doing entirely more work than was advertised, doing less complicated work than my level should be, and being paid almost 20k under market…it wore on me. Need out.
DCR
It depends on why you hate it.
If you hate it because management is bad/unreasonable, I would start to look.
If you hate it because you don’t feel comfortable/confident with the job, I would wait that will come in time.
If you hate it because you hate the tasks and you don’t see them changing (and it’s not because you are unsure of the tasks and it’s not because they are giving you a slow ramp up to full speed work), I would start to look.
But be very careful in picking your next job. You will need to stay in it at least 2 years to not look like a job hopper. (assuming a normal field, I understand that some fields have much higher turnover and short periods are normal)
Anonymous
Either move within a year so you can leave it off your resume, or stay 2 years.
Anonymous
I was at a job that I hated and started looking after only 3 months there. Ended up being there about 6 months total. I agree with the above poster that sometimes, things can get better, but they weren’t in my case. I was only going to work for this one partner, and it was clear that we just didn’t get along. The partner was also starting to go through a divorce and considering we already didn’t get along, I didn’t think it was wise for my own mental health to stick around.
Ouch! That hurts
Yes this happens. In our third home now, we replaced all appliances when we renovated … the fridge, dishwasher, as well as dryer and microwave have all needed to be replaced AGAIN. In less than 10 years. And our fridge and dishwasher were high end Kitchen Aid! Are going with midlevel items instead to lower the seemingly constant replacement costs. Yes, I miss ice feeding through the door, but in the long run … meh. What I REALLY miss is the rinse hold option in our former dishwasher … with only 2 adults, it can get quite smelly in there if we wait for a full load of dishes to accumulate.
In our prior houses, appliances never needed replacing (15 years plus for each).
Such a shame.
Yep
We got fancy Jenn-Air appliances in our prior home and they were THE SUCK. So many service call. I swear by Whirlpool now.
Everlane Japanese GoWeave
Does anyone have any Everlane Japanese GoWeave items? They’re supposed to be wrinkle-resistant but I just bought a shirt and a dress, both of which are ridiculously wrinkly, even for items not touted as being wrinkle-resistant. I washed them on gentle and hung dry but they looked like they’d been wadded in a suitcase for months. Tried ironing and could not get them fully smoothed out. I still wore the dress today, which after two hours looks like a satin/linen dress that I’ve been sitting in for hours.
Am I missing something here?
Anon
I have the wrap dress and the square cami. I’m not sure wrinkle resistant is the right word to use for these, even though that’s how they’ve been marketed. I’ve never had to iron them, and they do not get crease marks in a suitcase if you have to fold them. The nature of the fabric though is that they don’t really lie flat like something polyester would. They more have a natural crinkle kind of like silk. I like this about them, but I also have them both in black. Dunno if I would like them as much in a different color or if the items I had were some of the less structured ones.
OP
Ah, color may be the issue as my stuff is white and light blue. The light blue in particular just looks unironed, but I could see how in black it would look more organic. Maybe I need to handwash so they don’t get so crushed in the washing machine. Do you hang dry yours or put them in the dryer?
Anon
Maybe instead of ironing you could try steaming it? Still high maintenance solution, granted.
Anonymous
I own the dress in red, green and black. I steam them and have no problems.
Marshmallow
They sell GoWeave wool and GoWeave triacetate. My wool pieces (blazer, crop pants) are actually quite wrinkle-resistant. The triacetate stuff, not so much. But I have a steamer and that takes care of it pretty well.
Anon
I’m the poster who asked for tips about moving my cat to a new apartment last week. Thanks all for the great responses!! Follow-up – the new place has carpet on one floor and we’ve only ever had hardwood with her. Unfortunately, she loves to tear up the entry mat and two small area rugs we’ve purchased so I’m worried that she might go for the carpet next. She already has cat scratchers, but doesn’t use them. How can I stop her from going after the carpet? Also, any recommended stain removers for inevitable cat/carpet/throw-up incidents? I’d like to have one on hand before the move in case she throws up out of nerves (like she did when we moved her to our current place). TIA!
BB
Probably not the advice you’re looking for, but I think sometimes, they’re just going to scratch. I’ve literally tried everything with mine to not get her to scratch the rugs (including buying her a rug patch of her own to scratch) and nothing takes. I’ve tried catnip, all manner of shapes and materials of scratcher, tape, spray bottle, loud noises, but nothing! At one point, I she did really like one scratcher which was a relief, but then that got torn to shreds and when I bought a new one of the exact same item, she totally ignored it…and now she scratches the carpet under it.
Anyway, you should probably try the basics like catnip and getting flat scratchers that mimic the carpet, but just know that it might be futile.
Gail the Goldfish
One of my cats likes to scratch the carpet, but for whatever weird reason, he only scratches at the edge where the carpet meets the hardwood. So we got a shock strip that goes along the edge of the carpet. If it turns out they only like to scratch in discrete areas, you could try that. The one we have is called ScatMat and comes in various sizes. They also make motion-sensor compressed air things that will spray a puff of compressed air if they walk past it that you could use for small areas, though I think that’s more for training to keep off counters and that sort of thing. Also, have you tried different types of scratchers? (Lay flat, vertical, etc.) One of my cats only likes very tall vertical scratchers, the other likes flat, so try a variety.
And the Resolve carpet cleaner that’s specifically for pet messes works well.
Anon
Only had dogs, but are cats trainable to not scratch on carpet and mat the same way other animals are? In the past with animals scratching, biting or destroying, I’ve set the animal away from where they can’t access the target material, used spray with an anti-bite/anti-smell formula, and done deterrence training (i.e. when see them about to or performing the activity, clap hands loudly, spray water, etc.) and (with dogs at least) provided a treat when they stopped.
Gail the Goldfish
Cats are… challenging to train. Theoretically the ScatMat I use should train the cat not to scratch that area, but if I take it away, he just goes right back to scratching it. He knows he’s not supposed to scratch it. He just doesn’t care.
Anon
Lol, mine are highly trained. They know when they claw the carpet, they will get instant attention!
Anonymous
If the carpet is cut pile (not loops), it probably won’t be very noticeable even if they do scratch. Loops are a problem. We only have area rugs but use Resolve spray. You can also pretreat with a Scotch Guard product.
Davis
I’ve found that my cats like jute doormats. It’s weird, but I have one of those inside and they love it. We’re still working on the couch scratching, but that’s different :-)
For vomit, speed is key. The sooner you find it the better, but you’re not always going to be there. Nature’s Miracle Advanced Stain & Odor Remover Foam works well, but I’d prefer a little less scent.
Anonymous
I use nature’s miracle anti-scratching spray on all common scratching places for about a month and place a scratcher with the same directionality and material nearby that I’ve rubbed with catnip. So for a patch of carpet, I’d spray the carpet daily, the set up a horizontal carpet scratcher next to it with catnip. It encourages them to scratch the thing you want them to scratch by making it as similar as possible to the old thing but more appealing smell-wise, but I’ve found it won’t work if you do a cardboard scratcher for carpet, or a vertical scratcher for a horizonal area.
I’ve also been known to use clear packing tape on areas of carpet that the cat really loved (same thing Gail’s cat did with the spot where hardwood meets carpet!). I covered it up thoroughly so there was nothing good to scratch for about 2 feet and placed a preferred catnip scratcher nearby. I also leave treats on the scratchers.
Marie
I bought my cat a cat tower with rope scratch posts and a perch. I thought DH was nuts to want to spend $$ on this, but cat only ever only ever scratches the posts and have never scratched rugs or furniture. Also may serve a dual purpose of giving your cat his own space in your new house, which might help him settle in more quickly.
Anonymous
In my experience, you really can’t stop her if that’s what she wants to scratch.
Nesprin
Are your scratchers vertical or horizontal? I have one cat who will only scratch up and down and one who scratches horizontally. So if the horizontal one doesn’t have a flat scratcher he’ll go for the carpet, esp right out side our bedroom, esp at 3 am…. but I digress.
Shananana
Canned Air. Cat scratches, spray canned air. Repeat. My friends cat stops if she picks up the can now, but ymmv depending on the stubbornness of your cat. It’s the best cat training tool I have found, but you have to be on top of it early on.
Minnie Beebe
This is a great idea. I’ve had success using a spray bottle filled with water, but the compressed air is better for obvious reasons. Either way, the key is consistency – like carry the bottle around with you for a couple of weeks so it’s always at the ready.
Couch scratching can be curbed with some double-sided tape strategically placed on the corners – as with the spray bottle, it should be needed for a relatively short period of time.
And I think cats can respond to praise/attention/treats – if you consistently tell her “good girl!” after scratching on her post and/or give her a treat only after scratching on her post, she can change her behavior. Consistency is the key. Good luck!
Also, random cat advice from a cat behavioralist I heard on NPR: Keep the cat carrier out, open, and available to the cat if you can so that she gets comfortable with it and doesn’t freak out when you pull it out of the closet to go the vet or groomer. This simple change has enabled our former fighter to calmly be put into her carrier – it’s so much less stress for her and for us!
cat socks
What type of scratchers do you have? I have a big vertical one (SmartCat Ultimate Scratching Post) and a couple of flat cardboard ones. Those are the SmartyCat brand that I get at my local store. I wonder if putting those flat ones on the rug would help.
I also like the SmartyKat Scratch Sisal Scratcher.
For clean up, I like Nature’s Miracle. It helps with odors. Or just Resolve for the carpet. I actually try to use a rag with plain water first to get up as much of the stain as possible and then go for one of the cleaners.
Leah
To get vomit stains out of carpet easier, I highly recommend getting cats a drinking fountain. We use the Drinkwell Avalon. Cats are usually dehydrated, and once we started getting ours to drink more, their hairballs and food vomit became much less potent because the bile/stomach acids are diluted.
Anonymous
Kids’n’Pets is the best enzyme cleaner I’ve found (I would say it’s much better than Nature’s Miracle, though it’s the same idea).
Anonymous
One cat loved a vertical tower of rope to scratch. The other shredded our sisal doormats, so I just bought him extra doormats. God, I miss the little monsters.
Govt Mule
As an always early person (raised by an always late mom), yesterday’s thread on being late was very eye opening. I had a little more understanding of those who are always late. However, am I irrational to think that lateness should not be tolerated at work? I work in a meeting heavy office. Certain folks are always 5 minutes late. That is annoying, but workable. We have one person who is usually 20 minutes late (or more!). I now just start the meeting 5 minutes after the hour. Chronic late guy tries to restart the meeting when he gets there – and I just refuse. Chronic late guy complains to our coworkers that I don’t respect him, but he hasn’t raised the issue with me. If he does, I’m just going to tell him that he is failing to respect all of us for thinking we should just wait on him every. single. day. Our mutual big boss has been in 2 meetings where I refused to start over, and big boss seemed perfectly fine with the practice. I do give latecomers a recap of what was missed. I guess if big boss is ok with it, I shouldn’t worry. But I don’t want to be a jerk.
Anonymous
You are completely in the right.
May I ask, what is the role/level of the chronic late guy? Not a boss? A peer, I assume?
Anon
Yeah, chronically late guy is DEFINITELY in the wrong. I would also stop giving latecomers a recap. If there are no consequences to being late, people will continue to be late. It’s not being a jerk – it’s having clear expectations and holding to them. It’s not fair to everyone else in the office to waste their time with recaps and to have your meetings run long (making them late to the next thing).
Anonymous
I, too, would drop the recap for people who weren’t there. I expect people who are late to slide into their place without disturbing the rest of us to much. It’s on them to get themselves up to speed about what they missed.
Anon
Being 5 minutes late to a meeting seems reasonable to me. If people have back to back meetings, they need a few minutes in between. 20 minutes late sounds like they’ve failed to communicate a prior conflict, which is their own fault.
Anonymous
I have been chronically late my whole life and even I get it together for work. More than 5 minutes late for a work thing is inexcusable unless there was something unforeseen like a car accident. You are being completely reasonable and I would be doing the same.
cbackson
I am extremely pro-not restarting meetings for latecomers. Everyone is busy and I hate inefficiency in meetings, and recapping for latecomers is pretty much the definition of inefficient. I may say, “John, we’re on page 5” but that’s it. The exception is if the latecomer is the critical decisionmaker.
IHHtown
As a chronic latecomer, I agree that being late for work things is unacceptable. ESPECIALLY if he is already at work! I find most chronic latecomers are late for social occasions for failure to estimate travel time properly and/or knowing being a little late is mostly excusable. But a scheduled work meeting! Unacceptable.
Anon
All meetings should end five minutes early. That gives people with back-to-back meetings enough time to get to the next meeting. If we don’t end meetings early then we can’t expect people to arrive to meetings on time.
Scarlett
This depends on what he does. I am a Punctual, but in a role that is meetings all day, typically back to back, with no one thinking about passing time to get to the next one, and things running over because they’re important. That results in being late more than I’d like, but to do my job, I also sometimes need people to start over. There could be very valid reasons for lateness in an office context that having nothing to do with being disrespectful.
Anon
I worked for a company spread out over 3 high rises in lower Manhattan. Meetings were often scheduled for 9-10 in building A, 10-11 in building B, and 11-12 in building C. (We had a very meeting heavy culture). There was literally no way to get to the next meeting on time. But coming in with a group of people from meeting A to meeting B 5 minutes late at least felt better than being the only one. That said, I would NEVER expect anyone to restart the meeting for me. You should just keep sailing along.
I was the OP about Emily yesterday. I’ve decided to take a break from her about a while, mainly because I feel disrespected and not valued. It’s probably mutual because she got so defensive with me when I called her out on it that I assume she will not be initiating anything with me for the foreseeable future.
Celia
Do business meetings not have minutes? He can always use ’em for what he missed.
Anon
Everyone always has such great NYC recs and I’m hoping to use your brilliance for figuring out Saturday night dinner! We’re going to have 7 people and I’m looking for a place that is vegetarian-friendly, delicious food (ethnic is fine), normal-ish prices, and somewhere that we can either get a reservation or have not a terrible wait for a group on a Saturday night. A tall order, I know.
Location is pretty open — we’ll be coming from Soho, Midtown, and UES. Any ideas?
K
Candle Cafe on the Upper West Side is excellent. They also have a location on the Upper East Side but the menu is different and I didn’t like it as much.
Anon
Anyone else still getting stuck in mod every single time? Yes, I know that some of you will find this question annoying, but since there has been literally no communication from the powers that be on this issue, I have no other way to find out what the status is. At least the comments get approved slightly faster than before.
SW
Yes, every time.
keep beep
I guess you can go here and follow the instructions if you want a chance at communication with the powers that be: https://corporette.com/contact/. It doesn’t seem quite on target with the overall problem, but I don’t see any better way to reach someone.
IDK if it will help the overall problem that is moderation on this site though :(. Also the overall problem of not listening to feedback on anything from post times to moderation, etc. Commiseration.
Anonymous
EVERY TIME. But weirdly, not on the mom’s site.
Scarlett
Someone said to check the “keep your name” box the other day and that’s gotten me out about half the time.
Anonymous
I go to mod every time when I use my work computer but not my phone. I’m convinced it’s something about how my work network is set up.
Anonymous
Yes, every time.
Marshmallow
Yup, every single time.
Anonymous
I have a new one. My long-term BF and I have been talking marriage/engagement, etc. for a while now. We know we want to get married, but he’s currently in grad school two states away, so we’ve been waiting to get engaged until we can be in the same place (joint decision). Last night, he brought up the idea of us getting secretly (civilly, at a court house) married this year, and not telling people. Here’s the reason: we would save A LOT of money in taxes because he currently has basically no income because of grad school, and I have such a high income. We’d use the tax savings to pay for the (religious, family, relatively big) wedding we both want. This would allow us to pay for the wedding entirely on our own, and not burden our parents.
I’m not sure how I feel about this. On one hand, I think this sort of is the best of both worlds. I’d get to be married to him (which is ultimately what I want), and I’d get the wedding I’ve always wanted. But, I’m not sure how I feel about all of this, because I’ve always imagined getting ACTUALLY married in front of all of our friends and family. What does the hive say?
Torin
Personally I would not lie about this. Why do you have to get married secretly to wait to have a big party? I know people who have gone to the courthouse and not had a reception until a year later.
Anon
If this is a real thing that can happen it sounds amazing. I’d do it in a heartbeat. Keep in mind you still don’t get ACTUALLY married in front of people – you get actually married when you sign the papers, which usually happens not at the altar :)
Anonymous
I think it’s greedy and disrespectful to secretly get legally married and then have a wedding. It’s basically a gift grab. Either wait to get married or just have a small wedding now. I’m sure your guests would feel insulted if word got out. Also – at weddings you sign the registry, your guests might notice if you skip that part. Your officiant certainly would.
Anonymous
We wouldn’t lie to the priest who would marry us in the religious ceremony. We’d have to figure out if that was even possible. I think we may just do a courthouse ceremony, just us, and then throw the wedding. We aren’t looking at this as a gift grab…it’s more that we want to celebrate our marriage with our friends and family. And we want to pay for that celebration ourselves, instead of having our families pay. We can figure out if we even want to ask for gifts.
I think it’s the lying that’s bothering me more than anything, so maybe we do it, and are honest to everyone about it.
Anon
I have friends who got married in a civil ceremony so that she would have legal status in his country, then they had a big wedding 6 months later that everyone traveled to and had a blast. The civil ceremony was not a secret. But my friend is catholic so in her eyes the real wedding was the one that was before her god, not before the government. All the guests understood and were fine with it (except for the bride’s grandmother, who viewed the couple as living in sin until the religious ceremony)
Veronica Mars
The Priest, knowing that you’re already married, can’t create some faux-marriage ceremony out of thin air. Religious ceremonies are the spiritual and legal binding act for couples. If you’ve already done that, there’s not really a replacement that you can do without withholding information or intentionally misleading the guests.
cbackson
FYI: if you’re Catholic, it would be a convalidation of your civil ceremony, not a wedding, and some dioceses are fairly strict about not allowing it to look like a wedding (i.e., won’t allow it to be described as a wedding, won’t let you walk down the aisle or wear a wedding dress, etc.).
Anonymous
Then they aren’t seeing you get married.
Senior Attorney
The lying should bother you. Don’t start your married life with a lie.
Lana Del Raygun
Yeah, this is a weird and bad footing to start your marriage on.
Marshmallow
This x 1000000000
Anonymous
I think I’ve only seen one wedding where they actually sign the license at the ceremony (catholic ceremony), so I wouldn’t think anything of it if they didn’t sign during ceremony. With our’s (and I think most of my friend’s), the actual paperwork was signed quickly during cocktail hour before the reception.
Senior Attorney
I am not in favor of lying to people and I am not in favor of “pretend” weddings. If you did it, you would have to be sure that nobody but the two of you would ever find out, because I guarantee people would not be happy about being part of a big sham wedding.
On the other hand, I can certainly see the financial appeal. How about doing it and not keeping it a secret?
Never too many shoes...
SA, I have to respectfully disagree.
OP, my husband and I did exactly this (for immigration reasons). We were married at City Hall a year before our planned wedding date (church and fancy reception). We told the priest so we just signed the church registry docs and not the government marriage license. My woman of honour did not even notice that there was no civil license to sign.
Eventually we told people and nobody at all was upset.
And our “secret” marriage was one of the best days ever as we woke up, got married. had brunch and just went about our day so happy and together. Our wedding day was, as all weddings are, love filled but super stressful and we both cherish our memories of our day that was just for us.
Anonymous
Maybe it’s socially acceptable in your circles, but most people in the US don’t find this acceptable. And fwiw, you can have a day that’s just for you and also have a big wedding – you can do something special when you go to get the marriage license, or the day after the wedding, or whatever. I don’t see that as a reason to deceive your friends and family. If you want your wedding to be all about the two of you, you should elope. And plan a party if you want to celebrate with friends and family afterwards.
lawsuited
I think that perhaps nobody expressed to YOU that they were upset. I paid $2000 to go to a friend’s destination wedding – the money was very dear to me at the time but I felt really strongly that I wanted to be there at the moment that my friend committed to her spouse and began her married life – and later found out that she had been married in a backyard ceremony beforehand. I was shocked and upset, but I never said anything to her.
Anonymous
This is exactly the problem. There’s a difference between inviting people to participate in an important life event vs. inviting them to a party to celebrate the life event. Including people in the event itself is a huge honor. People will shell out a lot of resources to be there. Including people in a party is great but not really as significant, if that makes sense?
It’s like being invited to a graduation party vs. the graduation itself. If you want to give me one of your limited graduation tickets then I will move mountains to be there. But I’m probably not getting on a plane to attend your grad party.
Scarlett
+1 – also not a fan of fake weddings, re-enactments, anything pretending to be something it isn’t. That said, I have zero issues with going to a celebration of the wedding that happened, even if it’s a destination or whatever. Just be straight with me so I know what I’m going to.
Veronica Mars
I’d advise keeping it a secret. If you want to get married, do it, but don’t lie about it. If you’re doing a religious ceremony, depending on the religion, it’s pretty clear that the ceremony is set up to legally and spiritually bind you together. If you’re already married, you’re lying by omission and it becomes a charade. Plus, your guests will feel deceived if they find out. I’d look at doing a smaller, public wedding if getting married now is preferable.
Anonymous
When I was married, nearly a decade ago, this was very looked down upon in wedding blog circles. So be perpared for that.
In real life, I think folks will be happy to witness a re-enactment of your wedding and go to the party because they love you. But think long and hard before deciding not to tell people that you’re actually married. I think your nearest and dearest would be hurt if they found out you married without telling them.
Anonymous
I know this is a controversial opinion here, but I don’t think you should hold yourselves out as having a wedding when you’ve actually gotten married at the courthouse. Acting like you’re getting married with your rabbi/priest/secular officiant when you’ve actually gotten married a year before is lying to all your friends and family. If you get married at the courthouse, you can have a reception to celebrate your marriage, but you should describe it as that and not a “wedding.” I would still want to celebrate with you and give you a gift, but I don’t like being lied to.
Anonymous
If you have “such a high income” you can go ahead and pay for the wedding anyway; you don’t need the tax savings to do it.
If you want to get married now, do it. I’d scale back your wedding plans, pay for it yourself out of your own money, and be upfront with your family and friends. Do a small wedding now and a huge party later, if you want. Just don’t lie or sneak. It’s not worth it.
Anonymous
Most of the high income is going towards student loans. You’re right, I could pay for the wedding and not pay back as much of my student loans, but this would be a way to do both.
Anonymous
But you are still going to get the tax savings if you pay for the wedding now and loans later, you are just changing the order in which you spend money if you get married now. Marriage costs now, student loans after. The only difference is interest on the loans, right?
Anonymous
Yeah it’s lying to your friends and family for your financial benefit.
Anonymous
It’s fine. Honestly, I wouldn’t tell anyone why you are doing it because it doesn’t come off so…. well…. although I totally understand the logic.
I had a friend who married her long term French boyfriend in city hall and had a big wedding a year later and never told her family about the earlier marriage. She married earlier because his visa ran out and he had to get married or leave the country. That marriage did not end well…..
My friend felt quite… awkward hiding it from her relatively conservative family. But I think you would feel even more awkward trying to explain for ?1 year why you are doing it this way too!
I wedding is not the real “marriage” anyway. It is a ritual, family/friends gathering, big party. So of course you can still do that if it’s what you want!
Anon
I don’t see what the big deal is. This is totally acceptable and quite smart and sweet of you to save on tax so as not to burden your family. A lot of people would not be able to take advantage of such an opportunity because they don’t have a spouse in grad school. I’d say go for it and forget about the judgmental losers out there. Maybe just keep it a secret if you want to avoid being judged by others, but frankly I would not be close friends with anyone who looks down on this in the first placement.
Anonymous
Not sure if this is a troll, but looking down on you in the first placement is now my favorite thing ever!
Sarabeth
We did this, but told people up front – like, we announced that we were married, and then sent invitations to a ‘reception to celebrate the marriage of Sarabeth and Mr Sarabeth.’ At the reception, we had a ceremonial blessing, but did not re-enact the marriage (ie, no vows, etc).
We did it this way for green card reasons – but also, I really liked having a private ceremony for the two of us and a separate communal reception. It sounds like you’re not so sure. In that case, I would just start planning now and get married in November or December of this year. You only have to be married by Dec 31 to get the tax benefits. I think it would feel terrible to be lying to friends and family during the day you invited all of them to celebrate your marriage.
Anonymous
I’m sort of torn. Because I actually DO love the idea of it being just the two of us when we get married. But I also really want to celebrate with all our friends and family.
Lying is now out of the picture.
Lobbyist
My sister and her husband got married alone at a destination and had a party only about a year later. They showed slide pictures of when they got married and the party part had a few toasts but was mostly low on ceremony and bigger on dancing/socializing. It was really fun. The invitations to people said something like come celebrate our marriage
. There was a dinner on Friday night for families and out of towners (like a rehearsal dinner), photos on Saturday, and then the big party Saturday night. Maybe some sort of hybrid would work for you two also?
Horse Crazy
I think a blessing or something at a reception is a lovely way to do it (and also not keeping it a secret that you’re already married). If you want to do it, just have the party with people later and be up front about it.
Anonymous
Thank you for the honesty. Matches my gut reaction when he brought it up. It’s the lying that’s wrong…we can do it, but if we do it, we’re going to be clear with everyone what we’re actually doing. And if I can’t have a religious/church ceremony after being married at the courthouse, I don’t think I want to do this at all.
Equestrian Attorney
I think it’s totally fine, but then I’m from Europe and in my country everyone gets married in city hall (you can’t get legally married at a church or with your own officiant), then people typically have a religious service or other type of ceremony later on. So we did city hall in the morning with our very close family and witness, then had the big wedding (which was not the “real” wedding from a legal perspective – but was very real to us) in the afternoon. Lots of people do city hall and wedding several months apart and it’s totally normal and no one bats an eye or thinks it’s a gift grab. The vehemence of reactions on American wedding sites about this always surprises me. But since you are presumably in an American context, yeah, it sounds like people get very upset about it, even though it’s extremely standard in other cultures,
Torin
I think the difference is, where you’re from everyone knows this is what you’re doing. The OP was originally proposing that she would _hide_ what she was doing, which is what people react negatively to.
Veronica Mars
Depends on the religion, but if you’re Christian, then no, unfortunately you can’t. There’s just not another Biblically-based ceremony that is similar. Having said that, if you’re not sure about the size of your wedding, know that you can do an immediate family wedding with a small reception and get the “best of both worlds.” I really wanted to elope, but my fiance wanted his family there. We compromised on an immediate family (and the bridal party had a few friends) wedding and it was affordable and perfect. We got married at a luxury, 5-star dream venue for about 20k for our small wedding. (Unfortunately, even with limited guests, you still have big ticket items like photography, the dress, etc. that don’t scale down with the size of the wedding).
Anonymous
I mean, I posted below about doing this for immigration reasons. We had a Christian service with our pastor, who leads an evanglical nondenominational Christian church in the SEUS, and he was totally fine with it. Perhaps he was fine because there are a number of immigrants in the congregation, but he did not bat an eye when we told him we were going to get married at the courthouse 4 months earlier than the planned wedding date due to the immigration situation. We still had the church ceremony with a sermon, and our parents signed as witnesses to the church marriage certificate.
Anonymous
I don’t understand this position from a church. If marriage is a religious event, then that event does not occur when there is a civil marriage. So why does the civil event negate the religious one?
Of course I know that it is absurd to ask religion to account for logic or reason.
Anonymous
They’re shameless theocrats who want civil marriage and religious marriage to be the same thing so they can lord it over people who don’t share their beliefs (in my opinion).
My religion doesn’t allow divorce, which to my mind is enough to indicate that my religious marriage and my civil marriage are completely different (since I could legally end my civil marriage, but not my religious one). If they have different endings, why shouldn’t they have different beginnings?
Never too many shoes...
OP, I don’t see why you cannot have a church ceremony separate from your civil license. Unless this is some weird thing where your church documents are your only marriage documents and you do not need a government license for marriage?
As above, I had a courthouse marriage and a Catholic wedding and it was all perfectly wonderful. I do not really see why everyone is making such a big deal about it.
Lana Del Raygun
If you’re Catholic, you are definitely not supposed to get married outside of the Church. Like if you had already done it, there’s a convalidation, but you shouldn’t be planning on that from the get-go.
Assistant Professor
Can you have a “vow renewal” ceremony (in a church, with a minister) later on the same day as your reception? I’m surprised to read some of the comments above that imply one can’t possibly have any religious service if you’re already married civilly, so I’d investigate this further. Ask the minister that you had hoped would perform your wedding if they’d be open to doing a row renewal ceremony that feels like a traditional wedding ceremony for you at the later date. Chances are, your minister has dealt with situations like this before and has some type of protocol.
Assistant Professor
I meant vow renewal, not “row renewal,” as I typed in the fifth line down.
Anonymous
There’s something that bothers me beyond the lying. Even if you’re very open about it, it just seems…disrespectful somehow? A good friend had a “wedding” and never got legally married (also for tax reasons). She was pretty open about it, and I think most of the people who attend the wedding knew they weren’t actually getting married, but the whole thing just seemed like a charade. Eg., the officiant pronounced them “husband and wife,” they had a first dance as a “married couple,” the toasts reference the “bride and groom” and I was just (inwardly) rolling my eyes the whole time. In her case there was also an element of defrauding the govt which isn’t present in your situation, but I still think I would much rather go to a “commitment ceremony” or a reception for a couple who had a courthouse wedding than to a wedding that isn’t really a wedding. I would happily give a gift to a couple who eloped but then threw a party to celebrate, fwiw.
Cat
A relative of mine did this, and kept the secret for a few years. But then it got out, and the family is generally EXTREMELY annoyed at the charade. Like there was a shower, “oh can’t wait for married life!” chatter, a b-r3tt3 party… a big wedding (not even a religious wedding, they had a friend get certified) with all the gifts… and it was all a dumb lie.
Anonymous
I don’t understand the logical leap from – we both decided to wait to even get engaged until we’re living in the same place – all the way to – we’re going to get married even though we’re not living in the same place. Presumably you had lots of reasons to wait to get engaged? And it sounds like the only reason you want to get married is… a tax savings. The pros and cons don’t really line up for me.
I also wonder, what changed to cause this new way of thinking? Paying for the wedding and the tax consequences were the same when you decided to hold off on the engagement. So why the sudden change in attitude? Is BF in some sort of financial peril now and he’s looking for a bail out?
And why the secrecy? Just tell people you’re having a courthouse wedding, invite your parents, have a reception for your first anniversary or whatever. This is a super common thing. It makes absolutely zero sense to lie to everyone you know about your relationship status and it really makes me question his motives in suggesting that. Idk maybe I’m being too suspicious but something about this is tickling my spidey senses.
Nesprin
We eloped. Great life decision.
Anonymous
Me too, but then I never wanted a wedding and family around etc. I’m weird though.
Anonymous
Are you me?? I am in almost an identical situation. Want to have a wedding in a year or so, but would save thousands in taxes getting married immediately. I say do it. I know weddings are a celebration for family etc, but at the end of the day its about you and DH, and its your lives! Its not their business.
lawsuited
In your circumstances, I think I would get married at the courthouse now but definitely tell and potentially invite my immediate circle (for me this would be my parents and close siblings, YMMV), then announce the marriage more widely and throw a big reception later. I wouldn’t do a second marriage ceremony, and I wouldn’t lie to anyone who asked me in the interim about being married.
I’d also be prepared for people to have opinions about it, while remembering that pleasing everybody is a fool’s errand when it comes to weddings.
Anonymous
I say you’d by lying to your friends and family and not actually getting married in front of them. Convenient for him he gets to help himself to your money tho.
Anonymous
We did this for immigration purposes, got married at the courthouse and had a wedding with our pastor 4 months later. Only our immediate family and a few close friends knew about the courthouse wedding. Our employers didn’t know. We did not feel like it was anyone’s business, and I’m glad we did it. It made the immigration matters easier.
If the question of what ring to wear is a concern, just solder them together. My wedding/engagement ring are soldered together, and it was a family heirloom, so from the get go I wore my “wedding ring”. No one ever asked “why are you wearing a wedding ring” while I was engaged, even before the civil wedding.
I don’t see the public wedding as a gift grab. It was a meaningful service with our pastor (who was aware) and family/friends. We wanted to celebrate with them. The wedding cost far more than the gifts we received.
Anonymous
I would want to attend your real marriage ceremony, but with our government’s history on marriage equality, I would never equate “legal” with “real.”
Anonymous
Yes. You basically articulated why we had a civil marriage 4 months before our “real wedding”. It was purely for immigration. If we could have waited another 4 months with my husband in the country, unmarried, we would have done so.
We celebrate our church wedding as our anniversary. I didn’t see it as lying, at all. We had already started planning our church wedding when we realized he needed to marry me beforehand due to immigration. I wish I could have just called up immigration and said, please give us a few more months, but that’s not how it works. Ultimately to keep our family together, we had to get married in front of a magistrate, which took all of 2 minutes, and that wasn’t “real” as we weren’t making a commitment in front of our family, friends, and church. It was legal to keep him here, but it wasn’t a real commitment in the sense of a vow before God as people of faith.
Similarly, I attended a gay wedding before it was legal in our state, and that did not make it any less real for me, and I was not any less honored to attend and witness because they didn’t sign on the dotted line. The couple did later have a civil wedding after DOMA was overturned, and it was a non-event. We saw FB photos of the couple with a judge. No one attended or celebrated a second time.
Seafinch
I did this! (and so did my husband’s best friend). I obviously have no issue with it. We did it for logistical reasons. I had just got accepted to the JAG, we knew we would get married eventually and wanted to have it done before I was commissioned for posting purposes. We had four weeks and knew we wanted a traditional wedding on my home island which is stunningly beautiful and where my elderly relatives lived. BUT, we didn’t have turn around time to get the non-resident licence. We went to city hall in our city, my best friend and sister and his sister witnessed and we had a fabulous lunch. It was fantastic. We had a “formal” wedding officiated by a Justice of the Peace and just skipped the signing. It was fine. Everyone got what they wanted and no one had a problem with it all! In hindsight, I shouldn’t have bothered with the formal wedding, the intimate courthouse ceremony was perfect but that is just me. It was not controversial in the least and no one cared when my husband’s best friend did it a year later for similar licencing issues. Your reasons are just as valid.
Anon
I did this exact thing! I got married legally this summer and didn’t tell many people and will have a wedding and reception next summer. We decided on this to save on taxes and insurance and because of family pressures. I also want to say that in my circle of friends in the NYC area having a court house wedding and a big wedding and reception is very common.
We didn’t tell people because we view the two as separate events, one before the government and one before God. Logistically, we have always planned on having his dad officiant the wedding so he did one ceremony in front of our immediate family and will do a different one next summer.
Yes I know people will be mad when they find out (because I’m sure someone will eventually) but its what made us happy. We are paying for the wedding ourselves so having it a year early was not in the cards for us.
Anonymous
My (now) husband and I were already engaged and had set a wedding date when we decided to get married exactly one-year before our “wedding” date. It saved us a lot of money because I was still in law school (in a different state) and could be on his employer’s health insurance plan. While the original motivation was practical, our “secret” ceremony was wonderful and special and I loved that it was just the two us. We’ve never told anyone (aside from his employer’s HR). Nine years later, we still love that we have this secret just between the two of us. One year later, right after I graduated and we could live in the same state, we had an amazing wedding with friends and family and it did not feel less special in the least. I have a great relationship with my family and have never felt guilty or weird about not telling them. This was a choice my husband and I made together, and isn’t that what marriage is all about anyway? I didn’t get married to please my friends or family.
Leasebreak?
Any advice for breaking a lease due to bed bugs and cockroaches? I just moved in to a new apartment in NYC this week and am already finding bed bugs on my bedsheet and curtain, as well as cockroaches coming out of the shower drain on a daily basis. I researched this building on various NYC regulator website for bed bug infestation and did not see anything, so I was shocked by the condition of the apartment. Also, none of kitchen or entryway lights are working. I’ve emailed management a few days ago but still have not heard back. The super seems to think it’s not a big deal and just tells me to contact management, which I’ve already done. But so far everyone seems to be MIA.
Anonymous
I don’t think it’s grounds for breaking the lease. Roaches are really common in NYC, even in otherwise very posh apartments. They need to do something about the bed bug infestation and if they won’t, you could hire an exterminator and withhold the cost from your rent payment. But I don’t think it’s something where you can just move out immediately with no penalty.
Anonymous
I don’t know where you plan to live that won’t ever have cockroaches, but yeah bed bugs should be dealt with by your landlord.
Anon Atty
First, I would follow the procedure here:
https://www1.nyc.gov/nyc-resources/service/1174/bed-bugs
Note that if management was aware of bedbug infestation and didn’t tell you, you may have grounds to break the lease.
I would send a demand letter stating that you expect this to be addressed by July 1, and if you do not hear back from management, you will hire an exterminator and deduct from your rent. This is a warrant of habitability issue and not hearing back for days when you have bedbugs and cockroaches is unacceptable. Take pictures. Send things via email and also via certified mail, return receipt requested. Keep copies. You may need to take them to Housing Court. Keep leaving message for landlord. Be a pest!
Re the lights, that might take a smidge longer. It’s less serious.
I dealt with HORRID landlords in Boston for an entire year, and it was so incredibly draining and awful. I advise you to try to get out asap. If their apartments are in this condition, it’s not going to get better, and if they’re MIA, they literally don’t care.
You may also want to try to call a legal aid helpline in NYC and ask for their advice.
OP
This is helpful. Thanks so much!
Anonymous
I have what may be a stupid question… If the apartment was not furnished, how would the bedbugs have gotten into your apartment on their own accord? Don’t they have to hitch to something or feed on something to stay alive?
Obviously, if the apartment was furnished, my question is irrelevant.
Anonymous
They can come in through the walls of neighboring apartments like roaches and other bugs.
Anonymous
They can live in cracks and crevices, and if it wasn’t vacant for months on end–and what NYC apartment is–they could easily survive and wait for new tenants.
Anon at 1:04
Thanks!
JB
Perspective on the roaches. I’ve lived in three apartments in NYC, and while I have seen the bugs, it has been like once a year. Certainly not daily.
Get out!
Anonymous
Would your getting married affect his ability to receive student loans or how quickly he has to pay them back?
Anonymous
We’d have to check on that…
Anonymous
definitely check. It will likely cost you much more to get married than you will save on taxes.
Also, don’t start your marriage lying to friends and family. It sets an unheathly precedent. Get married at city hall if you want to then tell them and say you’re looking forward to celebrating your first anniversary with them once you’ve had a chance to plan a party.
It’s a lie you will have to maintain for the rest of your life which isn’t something I would want to have to do.
Anonymous
Yea definitely check on this. I received waaaaaaaay less financial aid because I was married. It cost me about $60,000 more to go to law school than it would have if I weren’t married, and my husband was not a super high earner (government job).
Anonymous
Dating question – I need help articulating what exactly bothers me about how some guys approach casual dating. I’m not really looking for anything serious, though I suppose I’m open for something more if the right person comes along. But I absolutely hate when guys say they’re looking for a hook up or ask me what I’m looking for with the clear intention of figuring out if I’m open to just having fun. I feel like, this is a dating service not an escort service; I’m not going to commit to hooking up with you before we’ve even met. My friends think I’m being ridiculous and it’s fine for people to be up front about what they want; telling a guy I’m looking for fun doesn’t set some expectation that that’s what will happen. Am I being too uncharitable in assuming that guys are looking for assurance that you’re a sure thing, not just asking whether you’re open to the concept generally?
Anon
You’re right, they’re wrong. Those guys are basically looking for an escort service that doesn’t cost anything. Hook ups are fine, but if what you’re looking for is a slightly deeper personal connection before hooking up, it is of course ok to hold out for that. And I’d be very very careful about protection with the hook up guys.
I always said I wasn’t looking for marriage necessarily, but I wanted someone who would stick around for Sunday brunch.
Anon
I always used to find it strange that people would close themselves off like that, like sure, you want to hook up, but why would you rule out dating also if you liked the person? Why do you need to label something before you even meet? It’s a gross attitude, like they think they can only find someone to date or only to hook up with and there can be no crossover.
Anonymous
Anon at 1:20 below here. I limit myself because that’s what I actually want. You don’t have to want it, just like I don’t have to want to get married or be in a serious long-term relationship. I like doing my own thing 90% of the time but also having a steady hookup so I don’t have to deal with the BS every time I want some $ex. I don’t care about getting married and I have no desire to be in a serious relationship so why wouldn’t I limit myself and be honest with potential partners about that?
Anonymous
I’m anon @ 3:08, and I get it. I’ve had a FWB situation for over 2 years. We have never went out to dinner, drinks, or anything resembling a date. He comes over, or I go to his place, we talk for a little while, sleep together, and then go home. Its fun, reliable, and we know that’s all it is. We may see each other a few times a month or go a few months without seeing each other.
What annoys me is guys who quasi-date, taking me out multiple times a week, wasting my weekend time, to then say they don’t to date…when we are already dating.
Anonymous
I think dating currently is a nightmare. Maybe I’m old fashioned but hook-up apps and flings with no attachments don’t do it for me, and my friends that do it rarely seem satisfied and are often hurt. I have one friend who thrives in this environment, and she has the looks and confidence of a goddess and I can’t compare myself to her.
You really need to know yourself and what you want, and be clear about that on your end. It definitely cuts the dating pool, but otherwise you are more likely to feeling hurt and used.
This
I’m in my late 40’s. Plenty of people were sleeping with each other right away after meeting in high school, college and post college. Yet it was always in the framework of some sort of dating relationship, even if unspoken. In other words, there was almost always some aspect of a relationship in addition to sleeping together, like talking on the phone, having meals together, going into public together, etc. I think the absence of this is really taking a toll of the self esteem of women, even if it’s not popular to admit.
anon
I don’t think these guys are doing anything morally wrong, but I agree that it just sucks and can feel dehumanizing and frustrating. I’m also trying to date and its just… ughg. I miss so much when you just met people and just…. got to know them and dated them. Now there’s so much gamesmanship, the awful feeling that it’s normal for people to meet, have casual hook ups and you can’t expect basic courtesy or communication because “neither of you owe each other anything.” Sure, that’s fine, obviously no one’s obligated, but it’s very demoralizing to try to date people in an environment where ghosting, slow fading, hooking up with multiple people, breadcrumbing, over analyzing frequency of texts, etc etc are totally the norm. I say this as someone who has absolutely had hook ups in the past, could do it with ease now if I felt like it, and am incredibly sex-positive. I still think the environment and norms now are misery-inducing. I get messages from guys on dating apps that just say DTF? or @n@l? Like, really? That particular act is a big deal for lots of people even if they’re into it… you think it’s polite or decent to just ask some chick you don’t know if she is okay with you sticking it in her @ss? You didn’t even ask me my name. Did you think that would work? Would you ever go up to a woman on the street and ask that? It just feels so disrespectful and dehumanizing.
Anonymous
I am in what we have dubbed a b o o t y plus relationship. We do not want anything serious, but want to have $ex. No monogamy discussion. We discussed what each of us wanted in detail before we ever met up because I wanted a clear understanding of what he was looking for before I got physical. Luckily, he is a legitimately wonderful person and was and has been a great communicator. We go on dates and he stays over, but we have no expectations of taking each day or knowing what is going on daily I each other’s lives.
All of this to say, I think it’s fine for them to ask what you are looking for upfront. Why don’t you just tell them exactly what you want/what you’re about? If you don’t want to hook up at the first meeting say that. If you want someone to hook up with but also stay over. Say that. Sure, some of them are probably being obnoxious about it so ignore them and answer only the ones who aren’t terrible.
Anonymous
Ya this times 100. Sometimes you don’t want a relationship but want the fun of dating/hooking up and I actually think it’s better to be upfront about that. If you’re not interested, you don’t waste your time meeting someone who is not looking for more.
Anonymous
You’re being ridiculous. There are plenty of women who aren’t looking for relationships who’d be happy to hear this. Everyone should be upfront about what they want. Saves time. I love it! I’m not casual at all so I can easily weed out guys who are.
Anonymous
I’m with you, and I don’t even use dating apps. The last 3 guys I’ve seen have all seemingly taken me on dates, we’re intimate, then they say they aren’t looking for a relationship.
One I met at a conference. He asked for my number, then texted and asked me to dinner. We went to dinner three times, slept together, and continue to see each other. After like a month of what appeared to be dating, he says he values his identity as a single guy and doesn’t want a girlfriend right now. But he still wants to see me to hang out/go out to dinner/netflix and chill…all of which is exhausting and time consuming if its not leading to anything. Frankly I prefer a FWB who comes over, we have fun, and leaves.
Another guy I met through friends, another through work, basically the same thing.
I don’t know if I’m doing something wrong or? Note all of these guys have brought it up. I haven’t put any of their backs up against the wall and asked to be their girlfriend. Its like we get to a certain level of seeing each other regularly and they feel the need to affirmatively state they don’t want a commitment.
Anonymous
I’m the b o o t y plus anon. You can avoid some of this, albeit not all of it, by being extremely upfront before anything ever happens about what you’re looking for. I think what bothers me about lots of these examples is that everyone’s making assumptions about what the other person is looking for without actually asking or saying what they want. Sure, sometimes people won’t be honest about it. But at least if you’re upfront there is a better chance of you not being in a situation that you didn’t want to be in.
IME, It is empowering AF to be very honest, upfront, and outspoken about what you’re looking for.
January
I personally find it annoying that “having fun” is a euphemism for no-strings-attached hookups.
anon
Right? Like any type of commitment or concern about someone else’s interests and well-being or life outside of gardening is not having fun, or detracts from such fun. Speak up, and you’re no fun anymore!
Anon
OP, What would annoy me about this behavior/process is committing to sex before I’ve hung out with you and you’ve impressed me or flirted with me or made me want to sleep with you. I have no idea if I want to have sex with you before I’ve even met you. And I wouldn’t want to feel like I’d told you we’d have sex given you might turn out to be a total looser or dud.
Enginerd
Do you wear sunscreen for an outdoor wedding (as the bride or member of the wedding party)?
I am in a outdoor wedding, ceremony is at 6, but we’re doing photos at 3. As a pale person who burns easily, it seems obvious that I should wear sunscreen, but I also don’t want to get my dress greasy. I have a Trader Joe’s sunscreen lotion that feels light and non-greasy, but it is only SPF 15 and I would prefer 50-70+. Additionally, I have read that you don’t want to put SPF on your face for photos since it will wash you out. Perhaps the answer is to wear a wrap and non-hairstyle-ruining hat as much as possible and take them off for 10 seconds at a time for photos?
Suggestions? Surely I am not the first person to encounter this problem.
Anonymous
I think it’s only physical sunscreens that show up in photos, so find a chemical TM/BB/CC for your face, and a regular chemical one for the rest of you. The wrap and hat are a good idea too.
Anonymous
The photo issue is only for flash photography, so if you’re outside for portraits and the ceremony that won’t be an issue. It may show up photos from later in the evening once you’re indoors or the sun has gone down, but as a fellow pale person I’d still wear the SPF.
Definitely go with a chemical sunscreen not a physical sunscreen that will leave a white residue on your face.
Anonymous
Buy an asian sunscreen from Amazon. Much more cosmetically elegant and no flashback. I personally recommend Canmake Mermaid Skin Gel UV. I don’t leave the house without 1/4 teaspoon of SPF on my face and neck, would DEFINITELY wear it on my wedding day. Did wear it as MOH recently.
lawsuited
The photographer is unlikely to use much flash photography at 3pm, so having sunscreen on during those photos shouldn’t be a significant issue (although it will be more obvious in nighttime photos). There are lots of non-greasy sunscreens – the spray on ones tend to be the best and Neutrogena makes spray-on as high as SPF100. I think you could also skip it this one time given that your sun exposure will be in the afternoon/evening and not at midday when the sun is strongest.
Anonymous
You can’t wear a hat. Yes wear sunscreen
Anonymous
Could you use a sunscreen spray over your makeup after the photos have been taken? I like Goop Setting Spray with SPF.
Nati
My partner is a “yes” man. He happily agrees to do things for others, but then breaks at a certain point and gets resentful. For example, I am not a comfortable driver, so he offers to drive us most places. I always confirm that he’s ok with driving on any particular occasion. Then, weeks later, it’ll become an argument that he ALWAYS has to drive. I feel blindsided, because I am trying to make sure he feels ok, and he must feel taken advantage of. How do we get out of this?
Senior Attorney
Ugh.
I would not put up with this. He needs to own it. No backsies when he had the opportunity to do something different in the moment.
“Sorry, Sweetie. I am entitled to take you at your word. If you are lying to me about your wishes/feelings/intentions, that’s on you. I’m not a mindreader and you don’t get to expect me to be a mindreader. Maybe next time you will man up and speak up.” And then walk away.
Anonymous
You break up cause he’s the worst.
Senior Attorney
Well, yeah. That was my first thought, too.
Anonymous
“You don’t always have to drive. I’ll drive if you don’t want to, but you always tell me that you are happy to drive.”
Anonymous
My ex was like this. I didn’t see it for the red flag it was when this happened with little things. Like in your example (actually we had the same fight about driving), I would say ok well now I know I need to split driving responsibilities more equally.
But it got to the point that I couldn’t trust him about big decisions. For example, we both owned our homes so when we decided to move in together we had to decide which to move into and which to sell or rent out. “We” decided he would move into my house. Objectively it made more sense for a lot of reasons – importantly, my commute would’ve been a nightmare from his place but his commute was only like 10 minutes longer from my place (and I work much longer hours). Apparently he was secretly never on board with living in my place. He resented everything about my house, and me for “making” him live there, but didn’t tell me any of this until he already had a renter and it was too late to go back. It was exhausting trying to figure out what he was actually ok with vs. what he would blow up about the next time he got drunk. Unsurprisingly the relationship imploded.
Senior Attorney
OMG this reminds me of my first husband. When I was about to graduate from law school, “we” decided I would take a job at a small city about 100 miles away. I accepted the job, turned down a BigLaw offer in the city, and started making plans to move. He dragged his feet about job hunting and finally at the eleventh hour he had a meltdown and announced he couldn’t leave his longtime job. It was a nightmare.
It’s now 30-plus years later and in hindsight I’m pretty sure in his heart of hearts he neither wanted to get married nor have a baby…
OP
OP here – he just moved in with me and I am in a constant state of paranoia that we will end up arguing about it/that he’s secretly unhappy with it. I have tried to broach this conversation with him. “It’s hard for me to trust you because I’m not sure whether you’re doing things just because you feel obligated or because you really want to/they’re ok with you.” He told me “well in the moment they are always ok with me but there gets to be a point where I feel taken advantage of.” But then when I try to be cognizant of that (for example, insist on driving sometimes) he’ll say “don’t be silly.” I can’t win.
Anonymous
Tell him to move out and move on with your life
Lana Del Raygun
You can if you break up with him!
Anonymous
I’m the person you’re responding to – I’m sorry, it’s so hard. My ex was a really nice guy before I demanded that he make all sorts of compromises that he didn’t want to make (like, you know, a grown up). I think some of it was being a manchild/not having other serious relationship as an adult. He’ll probably be great to the next girl. I’m so tired of training men for other women.
If your guy recognizes the problem and wants to fix it, then I think it’s something you can work through. But if not, I’m not really sure there’s a path forward. He’s going to become more and more resentful and you will resent him for resenting you.
Senior Attorney
No, you can’t win.
Admit you made a mistake and DTMFA. Then JSFAMO.
Parfait
I had an ex like this too. He’d agree to a plan – to go somewhere, say – then on the day of he’d be such a grouch about it, dragging his feet, grumbling, generally being no fun. I asked him exasperatedly why the heck he agreed to go and he’d say “well I didn’t want to be a jerk!”
Ok so you could have had 5 minutes of feeling like a jerk about not going, but instead you traded that momentary discomfort for an entire afternoon of being a HUGE jerk. And now NEITHER of us got what we wanted.
Yeah, he’s an ex for a reason.