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Updated: Nov 1, 2018 110 Comments · by

Wednesday’s TPS Report: Cashmere Twisted Cable Cardigan

Fashion· The Personal Shopper (TPS)· Wear to Work | · ·

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Our daily TPS reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Neiman Marcus. Cashmere Twisted Cable CardiganThis cashmere cardigan (a Neiman Marcus exclusive) is new to the sale section, and I think we have that to thank for the number of sizes still left. I like the interesting twist detail at the collar, and like the lines of the cardigan — I've decided the waterfall cardigans look best when they're longer in the front and shorter in the back, but this one isn't too short. It's available in teal (pictured), black, and snowflake, in S-XL — and for good cashmere it's a steal: was $415, now $145 at Neiman Marcus. Cashmere Twisted Cable Cardigan Seen a great piece you'd like to recommend? Please e-mail editor@corporette.com with “TPS” in the subject line. (L-2)

Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. LG

    Love the look! Will they have in green? I hope this is sold at Talbot’s when it’s on close out 50% off. I am trying to be a smarter shopper!

    • AIMS

      It’s already more than 50% off, and why would a non-Talbots item be sold at Talbots?

      • Lawgirl

        @AIMS, I think @LG meant “something *similar* at Talbots.” But eh, what do I know? ;-)

    • Alias Terry

      Yes, that caught my eye, too.
      She looks like she is either trying to be sexy ala Lea Michelle or just smoked a joint.

    • govvie

      Yes, I am intimidated by the stern-model-with-open-drapey-cardigan picture. Too funny….

  3. Pumpkin Pie

    (Long!) threadjack:

    Based on yesterday’s exchange about what to do when you suspect your friend’s boyfriend might be gay, I have the following question:

    I have what I’d consider uncanny gaydar. I can’t talk to a person and know necessarily if they are gay or straight. But when I come to believe someone is gay, I have nearly 100% accuracy (of either gender, though this mostly happens with men). Two examples, though there are literally dozens like them:

    True story 1: I first met one of my boyfriend’s cousins at a family event. We spoke briefly, mostly about our jobs, and based on subtle mannerisms (e.g., hand gestures, tone of voice) he seemed gay to me. Later on the way home in the car with my boyfriend and his mom, I said that his cousin “Joe” seemed nice and asked out of curiosity if he was gay. (We’re a very liberal, gay friendly group with lots of gay friends. It was really just idle curiosity.) They said no, no, they don’t think so though they don’t remember Joe ever having a girlfriend. Fast forward to the next event about a year later, and Joe shows up with his boyfriend.

    True story 2: Before college started, I connected with some people who were going to be in my assigned freshman dorm via a Yahoo Group (this was before facebook era!). I emailed with one guy about our high schools, academic interests, things like that. Based on his use of language, punctuation heavy on exclamation points and use of emoticons, I got the sense he was gay. Two years later, he came out.

    This has happened more times than I can count and I don’t remember an instance where I’ve been wrong (certainly some where I never met the person again or still haven’t received confirmation one way or the other). Sometimes stereotypical information like being a fan of a certain music group or signs of disordered eating come into play in my “analysis.”

    Yesterday, someone in the thread was SO OFFENDED that people would link sexuality to stereotypes. I certainly don’t think everyone who engages in these stereotypical behaviors is gay, nor do I think everyone who is gay necessarily does or likes anything “stereotypically gay,” but it can corroborate a view.

    Anyway, my question is whether people find this sort of determination horribly homophobic or otherwise offensive. I generally keep these “determinations” to myself but sometimes it comes up in casual conversations (e.g., above with “Joe,” or if a girlfriend says “wow, Mike is cute, wonder if he’s single,” I’ll sometimes say, “I don’t know for sure but I got the feeling he was gay”). To me, it’s almost like meeting someone from Canada and determining that they are Canadian, but others were equating getting the impression someone is gay with making negative assumptions about black people based on stereotypes, which I find horrifying. Any thoughts?

    • L

      I think it is fine. I have two friends who are a couple – the guy does seem gay, and the woman had to ask his friends in order to determine if he was gay or not, before asking him out – it was fine with his friends to be asked, and now they laugh about it. (As far as I can tell, they are very happily married.)

      I have also determined that some of my friends were gay before they came out, and would briefly discuss my impressions with other friends if the subject came up. No one ever seemed offended.

    • Lyssa

      Two thoughts:

      * I’ve noticed that a large number, in fact, probably all, of the males that I grew up with who were heavily picked on for having “gay” characteristics when we were growing up eventually came out (although they denied it, apparently even to themselves as they had girlfriends and crushes, for quite some time). That says to me, first, that there’s something imutable about it (that it is determined biologically very early in life), and that the “stereotypical” characteristics come along with it. (For reasons unknown, I’ve never really had any long-term friendships with lesbians. I could name a half-dozen fellows who I’ve known since early high school who turned out to be gay, but not a single lesbian. It’s not intentional. I did spend an inordinant amount of time in community theater projects growing up, though.)

      * I read a study somewhere, I wish I remembered the source or numbers, that said that people are actually very good about “guessing” sexuality. The study found that even when just given pictures which only showed a face, most people can guess the person’s sexuality correctly more often than not. Again, that says to me there’s something more going on there than simply a single decision to have sex with people of the same sex or not, and that it is associated with other characteristics,which are identifiable, for whatever reason.

      So, in other words, I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with what Pumpkin Pie said; I think it’s normal, she’s just more aware of it than most. It’s certainly wrong to pick on people about it (as in my first example), but that’s because it’s wrong to pick on people, in general, but hey, that’s kids. I don’t think it’s a good idea to identify someone as gay who has not come out yet, just because they should have the privacy to come to terms with that for themselves, but otherwise, I think it’s fine to recognize that there are certain characteristics associated with homosexuality.

    • Another Sarah

      I’m not necessarily offended, but I would think twice about your conclusions if you said to me, “By his mannerisms, he is gay.” I am friends with, as I’m sure you are friends with, plenty of people who don’t fit into the “gay” stereotype but who are gay, and plenty of people who do fit the “gay” stereotype but who are not. So, if you know this information and you still say “by his mannerisms, he is gay,” it kind of makes you look like you don’t know what you’re talking about. While not to the extreme, I find what you’re doing to be closer to the “making negative assumptions about black people” than to the “Canadian” example. Look at it this way: ANY stereotype “corroborates a view,” which is how they were born in the first place. But that’s also how prejudice is born – people see traits and mannerisms in someone else and make a conclusion/assumption that they are [whatever], and then they go from there, sometimes regardless of reality. There’s a difference between this and what you’re doing (I don’t think you are prejudiced), but it’s very close and I automatically think about where else you could be drawing conclusions like this. :-)

    • MsZ

      I think whether “this sort of determination [is] horribly homophobic or otherwise offensive” is the context of the determination. If Pumpkin Pie states she believes someone is gay in the context of idle gossip / whether the person is a smart dresser / whether the person’s interior design opinions are to be trusted, I would find the statement irrelevant and offensive. However if she makes the statement in response to somebody showing a sexual interest in the subject person – there, it’s clearly relevant.

    • Mary

      I am the poster from yesterday who apparently took a lot of flack from other posters about intent, etc.

      My point and problem with yesterday’s discussion, as clearly as possible, was as follows.

      The original poster heard through a gay friend and based on her friends boyfriends activities might be gay. She wants to bring it up to the friend dating the might be gay man. Does she have proof? No. She thinks he might be based on her preconcieved stereotypes of what she considers “gay activities/evets” he enjoys.

      A. It’s none of her business what his sexual orientation is. She is not friends with him/sleeping with him/dating him/etc. But she feels she must tell him.

      B. If she feels it is her business, then just ask him instead of gossiping to her friend behind his back about these preconcieved, stereotypes she uses to jump to her conclusion of his sexual stereotype.

      C. Even if she thinks it’s her business, to protect her friend, and she doesn’t think her stereotypes are wrong, don’t you think the chick dating/sleeping with the might be gay man, would know him better. Maybe she asked. maybe she knows he’s not. If the girl didn’t ask her, then it really is none of the busy-body friend’s business.

      D. Maybe it’s becuase I live in NYC where no one gives a damn about your sexual orientation, but really what was with all these women yesterday with teh “oh no, myfriend dated a gay guy too who just used her to appear straight.” I don’t buy it. I think sometimes when relationships dont work out, excuses get made. Sometimes I think it’s awful that people then say things like “oh he was gay” instead of “oh it wasn’t/couldn’t possibly be because of me/him/we didn’t work out.” But now it’s a “biologically impossible to work out” scenario of crying gay so that you can have no fault.

      E. Why is it, we could never sterotype race/ethinicty anymore, but everyone just immediately stereotypes gay and then defends it as different. It’s really not. Yesterday’s responses to the race comparison were “but that’s different, it’s notimportatnt in a reltionship.” Hate to break it to you all, but not too long ago, black and white couldn’t date/be friends/etc. If she’s dating a guy you think is “too gay” for her, that’s your problem, not hers. She’s the one in the bedroom with him, not you. You know nothing about his sexual preference other than your stereotyping him as something you percieve and therefore think is wrong.

      I was disgusted with yesterday’s comments . For an educated bunch I felt there was a lot of stereotyping done with no facts to back anything up. And that, pissed me off.

      • AIMS

        I think context and intent are crucial so I don’t want to get too involved here… But the analogy to racial or ethnic stereotypes just doesn’t work as far as I am concerned.

        You say that not long ago different races couldn’t date. But that’s neither here nor there unless the issue is whether a straight woman and a gay man should date, which it is not (and for the record, whatever floats your boat, people).

        The crucial difference with the stereotype analogy is that racial/ethnic/gender stereotypes all assign specific qualities to those groups upon seeing the group; whereas, here, what the OP was writing about was assigning a group to the stereotypes. I am not saying that can’t be wrong in some circumstances, but it’s much more like saying “the person in front of me has breasts, she’s probably a woman.”

        And I say this knowing that sometimes the person with breasts is NOT a woman and I think we all understand that not all “feminine” acting men are gay, etc. The point is sexual orientation is qualitatively different because it is not immediately evident. There’s a huge difference between someone saying “Peter does X, Y, Z, therefore, he might be gay based on my experience with others who are really into X, Y, and Z,” vs. someone saying “Peter is gay, therefore I know he must be into X, Y, Z.” With racial or ethnic stereotypes, people didn’t go, “hmm, Bob’s really into money, maybe he is a jew.” [sorry – don’t mean to offend with such a crass example but wanted to make the point of how inappropriate the comp. would be]

        I am not defending stereotypes or assumptions here. And, for what it’s worth, I don’t think anyone has any business telling their friends that they are dating someone gay or telling their BF that his cousin is gay just based on their “hunch.” But you really can’t the comparison to racial stereotypes here. It’s kind of insulting to how serious that issue still is and has been.

      • ADB_BWG

        My example was based on my own experience and not on stereotypes. Does my experience extend to everyone else? Probably not. But I am someone who would have appreciated hearing that a *trusted* friend had the same sense that my then-BF’s “presented-to-me” persona didn’t match what that friend was observing about that person.

        I didn’t see yesterday’s OP’s question as “gay is bad” but as “I think this person may be someone other than the person he presents to my friend – should I share those concerns?” Job, education, sexual orientation, views on other racial / ethnic groups, fidelity … there are many aspects to this sort of concern.

      • soulfusion

        (sorry this is so long)
        I did not chime into yesterday’s discussion but I have two anecdotes to share as to why I don’t think it is productive to jump to conclusions about someone’s sexual orientation based on stereotypes.

        First, a number of years ago I had a very close male friend with whom I did everything. Many people assumed we were dating and reportedly, the boyfriend of one of my friends claimed our interaction led him to believe we were sleeping together so he didn’t believe we were “just friends.” We were very close but nothing physical. I definitely had a crush on him and often wondered what the problem was. A number of people tried to convince me “he must be gay.” While he fit some stereotypical traits, behaviors, etc of a gay male, there were many other qualities, conversations and interactions that left me defending his straightness repeatedly (because how arrogant for me to think if he isn’t attracted to me, he must be gay?). Fast forward many years later and while I have wondered at various times whether he might be gay, he has never come out to me and we have maintained a close friendship I cherish and while he never has girlfriends (that I know of), I just leave all of that aside and choose not to speculate because I understand if he is in fact gay, he has religious/social challenges in his path if he were to come out. Bottom line, his choice. I never thought it was productive for people to raise questions of whether he was gay or not with me. I saw various “signals” too and I made my choices accordingly, even well intentioned comments were obnoxious and entirely irrelevant.

        Second example. More recently I was in a group travel situation where I initially read two guys traveling together as a couple. On the first day I made this observation to a couple of the girls I was traveling with and I really regret it for two reasons: 1) I was completely wrong; and 2) if I’m honest with myself, I will admit that in the context in which I said it I was just being gossipy. I subsequently became very good friends with the two guys and would be mortified if they found out what I said upon our first meeting.

        We all make speculations and observations in sorting out new people with whom we meet (gay/straight, single/married, intelligent/dumb, witty/dull) based on past experience and stereotypes, it is part of human nature but that doesn’t mean we should allow ourselves to wander down that course. To use a sort of ridiculous analogy, I would be properly scolded for assuming all attractive blondes with good flirting skills are airheads and all mousy brunettes who wear glasses are bookish academics. I have to remind myself not to pre-judge based on cursory, surface information and I think this is the same thing.

        • E

          I actually think the worse speculation is that these guys would be “mortified” if they know you assumed they were gay.

          If someone incorrectly assumes I’m a redhead, no big deal. If someone incorrectly assumes I find the notion of being a redhead mortifying, THAT is a big deal.

          • soulfusion

            That came out wrong. I think my concern is more that I was making speculations/gossiping about them with absolutely no foundation than the fact that I assumed they were gay and that was inappropriate and regardless of what assumptions I was making, if they were wrong and I was telling others it could be potentially hurtful. Like I said, we all make snap decisions and I would also assume I would hurt a friend’s feelings if she subsequently found out I thought she was dumb when we first met *and told people* just because she was blonde. I used the wrong verbage but I am projecting my own embarrassment for gossiping about people. It was wrong. Ugh, I may be digging a deeper hole with this analogy but I don’t mean by using this specific analogy that the assumption of being gay is somehow a negative just continuing from the analogy I used above.

          • E

            understood! Thanks for the clarification.

            My general thoughts on this matter (not to soulfusion, though her analogies are good starting points): I think assuming something neutral about someone (their hair color, their sexual orientation) is totally different from assuming something NEGATIVE about someone based on group membership.

      • So Anon For This

        I’ve been dumped by someone who then came out of the closet. He was using me until he was ready to openly be gay. It was incredibly hurtful. Has NOTHING to do with him being gay in and of itself – I have gay friends and family and I fully support gay rights and gay marriage. It was because I was being lied to and being used. I imagine it was a similar hurt to what someone who was cheated on by their partner. While this person didn’t physically cheat on me, he admitted that he knew all along that he didn’t love me that way, that he would never have been able to be in a long-term relationship to me, etc. and had been lying to me. I’m sorry that this man was going through this inside emotional turmoil and trying to get up the courage to be “out,” but I was an innocent victim very much hurt by this as well.

        This is a real event that has happened to lots of people. Being gay is hard in our society – it shouldn’t be, but it is. Some people try to avoid this pain, and end up hurting a lot of other people in the process. I think the poster from yesterday was a well-intentioned friend trying to help her friend avoid a painful situation like this. I think your “D” scenario above happens ALL the time to lots of people, even in big fancy NYC.

        End of rant.

      • JessC

        While I do sympathize with the yesterday’s OP about being concerned for her friend’s emotional well-being, I do agree with Mary’s statement that the boyfriend’s sexual orientation is really not the OP’s business and that there might be more to the story that the OP doesn’t know. However, I do want to respond to two of Mary’s points.

        D. Just because YOU haven’t seen it happen, doesn’t mean it never happens. I had a friend in high school who it was a well-known fact “crushed” on a couple girls from my group of friends. I remember being asked by more than one person if he was gay, and I always said no, I knew he liked girls. And then a year or two into college he came out. Sometimes out of confusion/embarassment/shame people discovering they have these feelings for members of the same sex try to supress/ignore them. My friend was raised in a devoutly Catholic family and I think suppressed his feelings out fear of how his family would react (thankfully, they proved to be quite open-minded). And while I do agree that people sometimes as a coping mechanism make non-self-attributing excuses for the end of a relationship, suggesting that women are saying “he doesn’t want to be with me, therefore he must gay” is, in my opinion, a bit far fetched (but as I said before, just because I haven’t known it to happen, doesn’t per se mean it’s never happened).

        E. I do agree with others that it’s not a good comparison. Except for the most racist, bigoted persons, most people would agree that there’s absolutely nothing wrong with two people of different races being in a relationship. But a relationship where one person is lying to theirself and/or their significant other about their sexual orientation? That’s both wrong and sad. Sad that the person has had to go around not accepting who they are or are afraid that others won’t accept them and wrong and hurtful to their significant other. I don’t recall anyone ever saying being gay is wrong. But lying to yourself and your partner is.

        I may get flamed for saying this, but to an extent, stereotyping is a natural part of the human psychological design. Anyone who’s taken a couple psychology classes in high school or college would have learned this. We see a characteristic frequently associated with a certain group, and over time begin to associate that characteristic with all/most members of that group. Think of them as mental short cuts. Where it becomes a problem, is where people become overly rigid in their stereotyping and/or consistently apply negative stereotypes to a group resulting in prejudice.

        • Lola

          Yes, it is bad to hide who you are. It would be great if we lived in a society where everyone felt comfortable enough to be out about their sexuality.

          But we don’t. Not everyone is comfortable with who they are. Even adults may be in denial for years before they are comfortable to come out to themselves, let alone to trusted family or friends.

          I think others have referred to this in terms of “privacy,” but no one gets to decide who you are inside. They only person that gets to decide if Jane Dow is gay is Jane Doe herself. Perhaps Jane may date men for a long time, or even get married or have biological children… she still gets to decide what her own sexuality is. Same goes for John Doe.

          • Lola

            Duh… it’s the end of the day. I meant “Jane Doe” both times, not Jane Dow.

    • Pumpkin Pie

      Thanks for all the perspectives, everyone! Lyssa’s view and data points were particularly validating, but it’s always useful to hear multiple opinions.

      • Butting in

        I think a good question to ask before involving yourself in someone else’s love life is “am I giving this person new information?”. Do you have a specific incident or issue that she is unaware of? If not, your friend knows and is in denial or has come to a different conclusion. Why is your conclusion necessarily more correct? People whose partners are in the closet/cheating/never going to commit/stingy/abusive etc ALREADY know this. They are making a choice. Be a good friend and either give your opinion when it is asked for or just be supportive. If she can hook up with one gay guy and is not put off, how do you know her next boyfriend won’t have some other huge incompatibility that she will ignore for the same motivations (loneliness/poor mate picker/childhood issues etc)?

        Seriously, just let it go.

        • Pumpkin Pie

          Actually, I am not the poster from yesterday, nor am I contemplating sharing information with anyone. I was just surprised people found the notion that a person might believe someone else is gay (without having been told directly) offensive in and of itself, and thought that was worth discussing.

          • Anonymous

            I never understood how people know that someone else is gay, or Cuban or Iranian or anything else by looking at them. If I see a man with dark skin, I don’t know if he is”African American” (person of color whose ancestors where slaves in the US) or if he is from Nigeria, here on vacation. But, then I learned that people were just assuming.

          • Anonymous

            And your suggestion is that that’s offensive?

            If I see someone on the street of NYC speaking Italian, see that he has a travel guide, and notice he’s wearing a soccer jersey for an Italian team, I’d probably think he was Italian. If he somehow came up in conversation later, I might say, “oh, is he Italian?” Is there a chance I’d be wrong, that I’m making assumptions? Yes. Do I think this is offensive in any way? No.

  4. Desk Girl

    Love the cardi…

    Now for my threadjack! Am taking the advice to come up with a creative new name, but I am fairly regular commentor here and would love some unbiased input…

    I started working at a new in-house position in Europe several months ago. My official title isn’t “In-House Counsel” but instead an appropriate rank in the company (something like “VP, Legal”).

    Despite my fancy title, there is only 1 person in the Legal Department – me (and one very part time work student as of this month). Nearly the entire company is on an open floor plan – CEO included. The only exception is HR, which consists of 1 male manager and 4 employees. Since there was at least a percieved need for legal to be in a closed office room so that sensitive contracts would be secure, I was put into the same room.

    The set-up of the room is as follows: 1 big desk with dividers for 4 people to sit at, 1 single desk, and 1 double desk. The HR manager (who has a slightly lower title than me) has the single desk. I asked to be put at the double desk with my back to the wall, so that people could not see my computer screen when they entered.

    But instead I was put at the 4-top.

    Have been here now for several months and at first didn’t think it was *that* big of a deal, but am starting to get sick of people coming in and referring to the HR manager as my boss, assuming that I am “the new HR girl” (since the others are also relatively young I assume I look more like their colleague despite the fact that I try to dress to fit my part in suits rather than their more casual attire).

    “My” seat is taken by the most junior member of the HR department and I couldn’t get a straight answer on why she couldn’t have taken the spot I now have. The only thing I can think is that it was either a power play by HR Manager (btw he can see my computer from where he sits!) or the junior HR employee put up a fight…or as a very long shot that he was asked to keep an eye on me???

    So…wow that was long. What would you do? Talk to the HR Manager (who is one of those pretend to be nice guys but who I think is actually kind of a jerk), talk to the CEO (to whom I directly report but who I would hate to bother with this kind of thing), talk to…one of the HR employees casually (am afraid that I would sound insulting…)…or just suck it up?

    I can’t decide whether I am being not assertive enough or whether I am making a big deal out of nothing. Some others with my title sit at 4-tops but not in the way I am (with more junior employees).

    TIA!!!

      • E.E.

        In case Desk Girl doesn’t refresh as often as I do: “The HR manager (who has a slightly lower title than me) has the single desk.”

      • Desk Girl

        Nope. He is 10 years (at least) older than me but not one rank down from me.

    • E.E.

      Did the most junior HR person in “your” seat occupy that seat when you moved in (which would have required her to move) or were both empty when you started?

      • Desk Girl

        I think that is the key. She was in that seat to begin with and I think she likes it there (and has quite a forceful personality). Plus she brings her dog in 2x a week so maybe wants to have the corner for him to be in?

        • E.E.

          In that case, I’d actually be less annoyed. When I move into a new space, my expectation is that I’ll go in the spot that’s open and least disruptive to those around me, and as other spots or offices open up, I can move into them if I believe I’m entitled to something better (though I’ve never come in as the most senior person). I can see why the manager might have this sort of mentality and I wouldn’t assume that it’s a power play or that he’s out to get/watch you, or even that this other woman was particularly pushy – it might just be out of a sense of fairness based on this philosophy. Another possibility is that she requires more space as an accommodation for some non-obvious disability or issue.

          That doesn’t mean you don’t deserve better space though, given that you’re the most senior person in the room! I don’t have any great suggestions on how to navigate that conversation, but just wanted to weigh in with my possible read of the situation to perhaps help you feel less victimized.

          • AnonE

            ditto to this. Just joined a new law firm. There are only a limited number of parking spaces under the office. Other spaces are located about a block away. Because of some decisions made a few years ago, the spots below are mostly attorneys, not all, and given on a date of hire basis. So, I am currently the only attorney without one due to date of hire, even though I am senior to other attorneys in the office. Is it my preference? not on days like today! but it doesnt change my seniority.

    • somewherecold

      I think that would annoy me, too. I don’t totally understand the dynamics of where you work and what you do, but some ideas–

      1. Can you talk to whoever thought you needed to be in a closed office because of sensitive work about the fact that someone can stare at your computer all day in your current situation (especially if you are exposed to others in the room)?

      2. It sounds like there are 4 HR employees, the HR manager, and you in this room, so does that leave the double desk for one person? Maybe you can suggest that it would be best to designate that the legal desk so that your part time student can work there, too.

    • Anonymous

      Why not ask the CEO (the one with the power to make the change) and give him a substantive reason unrelated to you or the HR manager that lets everyone save face (ie, we need to put the company’s lawyer alone to protect the company because if we don’t, we can never claim the privilege for any of my work). I think a recent EU court severely limited the privilege for in-house counsel, so you might want to research and refine the argument.

      • Desk Girl

        I think this may be the best bet if I could come up with a substantive reason…privilege is largely out, but not completely so maybe I can try that?

        I’m really glad that others agree that the situation would annoy them!

        • anonymous

          I learned this approach when I was a baby lawyer and I explained to my now-former partner why our client had to do X. He said, “I agree. Now give me a reason I can tell our client why our client has to do X.”

          Let us know what happens.

        • anon

          I agree that the privilege angle is your best bet. Also, do you anticipate ever being involved in any confidential personnel issues? i.e., what if there was some sort of discrimination case or the like involving an employee? In that case you definitely would not want your computer in a position where other employees could see the screen.

          I any event, I would definitely try to frame it in terms of what is best for the company.

    • hantom

      I think you just sound whiny and would drop it. You seem to be the newest person to the room. You probably jsut took the open seat. HR dude may technically rank “below” you but if he’s been there 10 years, he probably has more pull than you. If his employee was sitting there first and wants to stay there, then he lets her.

      You honestly sound like a little kid complaining that you have to sit in teh middle seat in the back seat of the car. Just have a glass of wine to go with your whine and get over it.

      • anon

        Except, as noted by several posters above, there are actual legal reasons why the OP, as an attorney, really should have a desk that is more private, if not her own office.

        • ADS

          I’m pretty sure anyone who works in HR has just as much of a reason to need privacy for their conputer screen as someone in legal. Probably more so, since the information on their computers is sensitive to EVERYONE. After all, there’s a reason that it’s HR and legal in the closed office.

          Making someone more junior than you give up their desk just because you want it is bratty. I am managing a staff of nine and I have an open cubicle on the floor with my staff because all the offices on my floor were occupied by people with lower titles than I have BEFORE I was hired. No one likes the person who pulls rank in such cases. When something opens up, you better believe I will be putting in dibs. Until then, you suck it up.

          We had a new C-Suite executive at my old company who, the week he was hired, evicted a number of co-workers from their long held offices because he decided he liked them best in the building. They had to move to another floor away from the rest of our team. No one ever forgot that, and we still make fun of him for being an ass. Don’t be that guy.

      • hantom

        Eh, I’m an attorney and that’s not usually the case as the OP even mentiuoned. She has no reason as of right now to make that argument.

    • B

      Wow. Despite the desk situation, I want your life!!!;)

      Any tips for a young practicing lawyer on how I can find a job like yours (in-house in Europe) in the next few years?

    • Anonymous

      I think you are at a disadvantage because you have accepted it for several months.

      My approach would be to talk to the HR guy. Tell him you have realized that the seating arrangement just isn’t working out (give some substantive legal reason, or just leave it at “not working out”), and that he needs to move his HR employee to sit over with the others, so you can take her desk. I’d be fairly matter-of-fact. I would be careful about pulling the CEO into this type of thing.

      • Desk Girl

        Thanks for all the responses – including the “suck it up and stop whining” – I needed to hear that to know that there is at least a chance that I would be perceived as being bratty.

        I think I am going to wait until the next round of re-organization and then see if I can change things in a non-obvious manner.

        As for how to get a job in-house in Europe…well, I am fluent in the language of the country in which I work (and studied law here), as well as the language of the company’s headquarters in Asia…but to be honest I just responded to an interesting job posting and was lucky enough to get the job. Advice? I guess keep your ear to the ground, apply for jobs even if you don’t think you will get them, and try to get something that would set you apart from the pack (for me it was the language).

        Thanks again everyone!

  5. Housecounsel

    Yes, I find this stereotyping offensive, and if you said all this to me in person, I’d conclude you were lacking in maturity and/or social graces.

    On a much lighter note, check out all of the sale cashmere on the NM web site, not just the featured cute wrap cardi. Love their cashmere sweaters and love getting them on sale.

  6. AIMS

    Love the markdown, but to me this sweater looks sloppy. I wouldn’t wear it to work.

    • Emma

      Agreed, I’ve never been a fan of the “breezy” cardigan. Sweaters are bulky already, why add excess weight? I like a more tailored look.

    • Legally Brunette

      Exactly. This sort of loose style also has great potential to look frumpy.

    • KW

      I have a question about that. I’m 9 weeks pregnant with my first baby and already looking for maternity clothes (I’m also tall, so I’m assuming my search will be difficult). I was looking at sweaters like this and thinking they may camouflage my belly. I thought they may look better than button down cardigans because they are looser and more “drapey” in the front. What do you all think about that?

      • surrounded by lawyers

        I’ve never been pregnant, so grain-of-salt warning. But: 1) I think a tall person could pull this off much better than someone petite like me, and 2) I think this would make a lot of sense as maternity wear, particularly in the later stages. I assume at that point the ruffles would more fall by the sides of your stomach rather than camouflage it, but at that point there’s nothing to hide anyway–it will just be comfortable and practical.

      • Anonymous

        Congrats! These totally work for maternity purposes. You can wear almost any type of top underneath and cover up with a nice sweater that you can still use after you have the baby. You get some leeway when you are pregnancy anyway. (You didn’t say what your specific concerns were, where you work, etc.)

      • Samantha

        A word of warning – I’m currently quite pregnant (8 months) and I find this sort of thing just makes me look bigger rather than camouflaging.
        The best advice I received is to find something nicely fitted around the shoulders and bust area that then gets more roomy in the tummy area. That makes you look not huge all over, but cute with a tummy, which is what I’m going for. :)
        Think empire waist style, but other styles will also work as long as the shoulder/top bust area is a good fit.

    • Alias Terry

      Thank you. I didn’t want to be the first to say anything, but this is very casual. Too casual for anyone at or aspiring to be at the V or C level.

      It is styled with jeans and the color is a little too one season.
      The sleeves are silly long. I figure that model is probably 5’9″ and her arms are at least an inch longer than mine. I would look like a little girl in mommy’s sweater.

  7. Bonnie

    I love this look on the model but can never make this type of cardigan work for me.

    • alhambra

      me neither. I think it works on girls with small boobs, and I am not one of those. If you’re well-endowed, I find that the cardigan has nowhere to “sit” (either you push it to the sides of your boobs or it goes right over them, which makes it poof out and makes you look bigger than you are). it’s a tough world out there.

  8. Lawgirl

    Weekend wear to me! Even if it’s cashmere, I see tons of these in acrylic all over the place.

    • Alias Terry

      I was actually pleasantly surprised by the content. I expected it to be acrylic.

  10. scarf lady

    threadjack! I’ve been searching the archives for a post on black tote bags, but didn’t find anything that really applied. I’m looking to get a black leather tote for work (NorCal biglaw) that’s high quality, looks great, and will last several years. I’m willing to spend $$$$ for the perfect piece, but don’t really know what the best, most classic styles are (no flashy logos or tons of hardware!) Any help would be appreciated!

  11. Jay

    Threadjack: I can’t remember the name of the program you can download where you can list sites and give yourselves time limits for them, and then if you exceed the limit the program blocks your continued access to that website? I’ve tried googling but I just get links for parental control sites, and I don’t think that was it. Can someone please remind me? Thank you!

      • Batgirl

        That’s the one I use–leech blocker–but it has to be through firefox. And a little trick to get around it is to just go through chrome or IE, so it hasn’t worked all that well for me.

        • SF Bay Associate

          I do that too (go around it with IE). I need a Leech Bloch for IE, too. Or, just get some self control.

  12. BagReviewer

    I wanted to share a review on a new laptop bag I got and have taken on two short trips in the last few weeks. It’s this: http://www.ebags.com/product/kenneth-cole-reaction-business-and-luggage/rtech-polyester-ez-scan-laptop-portfolio/147268?productid=10009890

    It’s not the most feminine thing in the world, but I love it. The EZ-Scan feature (where you can just unzip the bag and put it flat on the scanner conveyer belt at the airport) has made getting through security a lot easier and faster. I have a large laptop (16″ screen) and it fits in the bag really well. There’s lots of other room for files, miscellaneous electronics I travel with, and even space for a travel blanket/wrap and some other nice personal items. It’s easy to attach to my rollaboard suitcase and the combination of dual short handles on top and the shoulder strap make it easy to tote around. Just thought I’d share if any other frequent travelers are looking for a new laptop bag, and are OK with prioritizing function over form. :)

      • BagReviewer

        It’s not at all, it’s very light. I specifically bought it because my laptop is heavy and my previous laptop bag was heavy as well, and it killed my arm to lug the bag with the laptop in it. This is much easier to carry.

  13. AtlantaAttorney

    On the subject of cardigans, I am looking for a new white cotton cardigan to go with sundresses on days when I just need a tiny bit more warmth or needed my shoulders covered. I had the perfect one from AT and it’s officially worn out (I could KICK myself for not buying 2 or 3 or 10 at once). The old one was 3/4 length sleeves, lightweight cotton, and slightly fitted so it draped nicely right up against my dresses, not boxy at all.

    I’m sure I will never find the perfect replacement but if any of you has an idea, I’d be most appreciative.

  14. Petite1

    Looking at the Nieman site at the sweaters is reminding me of my big issue with department stores. Most of the department stores (Nieman Marcus, Nordstrom) have such a small petite selection. Most of their petite clothes seem to be Eileen Fisher, which to me at least has a reputation as having a sort of frumpy/older vibe. I am an attorney at a law firm that nominally has a business casual dress code, but many people wear suits as their normal attire. What is the best source of professional/high-end petite clothes? It seems like the clothing industry equates “short” with either “grandma” or “teenager/junior sizes” — where is the middle ground? Many of my clothes are from Banana Republic/Ann Taylor due to their petite selections but would love to find something higher end/more polished. Where do other short people shop? :)

    • rg

      I hear you!

      I remember reading a few years ago about how a lot of the higher end lines were getting rid of their petites because young women don’t want them and are willing to wear smaller regular sizes. Those petite young women, however, must not be 5 feet tall and look ridiculous with the stance of their suit jackets sitting at their navel! Higher end clothes that are ridiculously ill-fitting are just not worth the price to me. To be honest, for the past few seasons I haven’t even had much luck with AT or BR petites because they seem to be designed for someone with a torso several inches longer than mine (not sure what makes them petite to be honest).

      In general, I think brands that cater to Asian women are better. I just bought a Max Studio suit. Still needs tailoring, but at least the stance is in the ball park of correct. Most other things are hit or miss and require a lot of trying on. I do occasionally run into Tahari petites (real Tahari) at places like NM outlet. Higher end brands that have a chance of fitting me in real sizes are Rebecca Taylor and Nanette Lepore, though neither is reliable and neither is particularly suited to finding a basic suit. Theory really depends on what’s in season, but sometimes their outlets have better selection than department stores (and more variety).

      Overall, I’d recommend hitting places like NM Last Call (they’re online too) and trying everything in your size. A tiny fraction of what I buy online fits, but it’s easy to return there if you live nearby. And the discount you get from the outlet makes up for the hundreds of dollars of tailoring…which you will almost certainly still need to do (so find a good one!).

      If anyone else has better luck, please share!

    • AIMS

      The Lord & Taylor in NYC has a whole petites floor. It’s not a perfect selection and some of it is a bit boring, but there’s a lot there. I think their online selection is a bit more limited, but you can try there too.

      Talbots has a ton of petites stuff. They’re dresses and pants are sometimes a bit boxy but I love their sweaters and cardis.

      Jcrew has lots of petites; so does Brooks Brothers (not lots maybe as their general women’s selection is limited, but what’s there usually comes in petite, too).

      Otherwise, I would agree with Petite1 about looking at brands like Nanette Lepore, DvF, etc — a lot of their items is cut smaller so that it actually fits me fine in the “regular” size.

      • rg

        Oh, right, if you’re on the West Coast, the San Francisco macy’s in Union Square claims to have the largest petite section in the world. They carry a lot of brands that I don’t see elsewhere (either other Macy’s or other department stores), but it’s not one stop shopping, unfortunately, for me.

        All of this advice, of course, assumes that you are both petite (i.e. short) and small-framed. Otherwise a designer size 0 is probably not going to work.

  15. Ru

    I think this cardigan would look very nice belted with the polka-dot belt Kat featured a few days ago.

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