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Love this cotton sweater from Anthropologie — the abstract pattern and the blue “blurs” seem to promise spring. I might pick up the lightest blue in my accessories — a turquoise necklace or ring would be great. It's $118 at Anthropologie. Kaleidolight Cardigan
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
AIMS
This is very cute!
Makes me long for spring :)
Cara
Threadjack — question for people involved in legal hiring:
I graduated from law school this past May and I’m still looking for long-term employment. I’ve been advised by a recruiter to join LinkedIn and Facebook. For a number of reasons, I am not excited about doing this. I also don’t think it would really help me snag a job (for example, if an employer is googling me, s/he already has my resume, which will contain a lot more relevant info than an online profile). But am I the idiot? Is there some benefit I’m not seeing to joining these kinds of sites?
Anonny
I think they’re both a good idea but only if you actively use them to your advantage to cultivate contacts. I have filters set so that professional contacts can only see certain things about me (i.e. no photos of my Halloween costume, etc) and friend people I worked with prior to law school. I actually found out about an opportunity I wanted to pursue when a friend/former co-worker announced he’d found a new job on facebook. I contacted him about his old position and ended up getting an interview out of it. It’s all about what you do with these sites, though. Like it or not, I think connections are everything–sometimes it’ll come down to how you make them and work them. Good luck.
Cat
I can understand the reluctance, but suspect you may be judged negatively for having no self-managed online presence.
I think you can avoid Facebook (so many people set their privacy settings high, such that they are invisible to some searches, so your absence wouldn’t be notable… and most people use it primarily as a social tool anyway), but recommend joining LinkedIn.
AnonymousFRA
I’m curious as to why you think a person would be judged negatively for having no self-managed online presence?
I do understand that, for certain professions, social media is extremely relevant and even necessary. I’m just not sure that the legal profession is one of them (yet, or at least, not universally – ie I’m not sure how it would benefit in-house counsel, govn’t attorneys, big firm attorneys etc, but might be more relevant for solos/small firm practitioners)?
Would really like to hear some thoughts on this.
Annon
Yeah, I would like to know more about this, too. The comment scares me — not that you’re a bad person, Cat, just that the legal industry expects people to maintain a certain e-presence on top of everything else. Also, can you tell us generally your role — are you in law? in hiring? in government/private/nonprofit? rough age?
MelD
I’m a government attorney and none of my coworkers are on LinkedIn- I don’t think it’s really a big deal. My community is so small you end up running into each other anyway.
Cat
I am a midlevel in Biglaw, and should clarify by saying I think this matters more as you seek higher positions — for example, someone seeking to lateral in as a 5th or 6th year? I would be surprised that they weren’t on LinkedIn (and/or Facebook, to a much lesser extent) for business development reasons.
Entry level, probably not as important, but I think LinkedIn does help give the impression (at least to me) that you are thinking about how to maintain connections / build a career, and it helps create a consistent image of you.
cbackson
I’m a mid-level in biglaw and this has not been my experience. Most people at my firm who make hiring decisions don’t know what LinkedIn is and only know what Facebook is because it’s in the news. I google potential hires that I’m interviewing, but only to see if there’s something egregiously bad out there. If I found no self-managed web presence, I wouldn’t be concerned.
Then again, this may be because I have no identifiable presence in social media myself (Facebook, which I use sparingly, isn’t under my real name). I deleted my LinkedIn profile because I found it to be next to useless.
Midori
I got my first permanent legal job through facebook. No lie. A fellow alumn of my undergrad noticed my postings on an alumni group discussion board and contacted me out of the blue. We developed a friendship, and he invited me to interview at his firm a few months later. Facebook can be very very good or very very bad. If you get on it, just don’t be an idiot (I’m looking at you, classmates who posted drunk pictures after every weekend party). Join (or start) meaningful groups and say smart things in them.
Anonymous
I’d do LinkedIn, but would pass on Facebook for purely professional reasons. Having a presence on LinkedIn has become almost expected of recent law school grads and others actively looking for work. If I were interviewing a candidate who didn’t have a LinkedIn profile, I’d find that a little surprising. It might create the impression that you aren’t one to network effectively or make use of available resources, not the most desirable traits in an employee. Also, LinkedIn has proven to be very valuable to my practice. I’ve used it to stay in touch with law school classmates, former colleagues and clients. Once you establish the connections, you’ll receive notifications when people change jobs or get promoted, which can be invaluable to someone looking for employment (or, down the line, looking to enhance business development or referral sources).
anon
It’s not so much for purposes of potential employers being able to find something when they google you, it’s more about reconnecting with people and networking. I am in touch with a ton of people through facebook and linkedin that I would not otherwise be in touch with. When you are job seeking, you never know who might be able to help you out. I would do both, and like others have said, just don’t be an idiot on facebook by posting a bunch of drunken pics. It will be fine, really.
Anonymous
LinkedIn can be useful to manage your professional contacts. I use it to find people’s email addresses, remind myself where they are currently working, etc. Also, I’m a member of the LinkedIn groups for my alumni association and people often post job opportunities.
I don’t have Facebook and don’t know anyone who uses it for professional networking. Given the privacy concerns and the fact that anyone who knows you can post a picture and tag you in it, I’d suggest you don’t join Facebook. It seems like it can do a lot of harm if you don’t manage all the privacy settings just right, and is not of any professional benefit.
anon
Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I’m pretty sure you can fix your settings to disallow others tagging you in pics. You can definitely untag yourself if you get tagged in a photo and don’t want to be.
I strongly disagree that Facebook has no professional benefit. I am not Facebook friends with any of my coworkers, but I am Facebook friends with a ton of people I went to high school, undergrad, grad school, and law school with, who I probably would not be in touch with otherwise. While I am also Linkedin with some of these people, Facebook is far more social and there is much more interaction on a day to day basis with the people you are friends with. While I personally have not gotten any referrals or job opportunities through Facebook (yet), I have helped others with job advice and other professional matters. Yes, you do want to manage your privacy settings and be sure not to say anything stupid, but IMO, the benefits of Facebook far outweigh the risks.
Linkedin is great too, but I think it serves a different purpose. I feel totally comfortable connecting with someone on Linkedin that I met once at a networking event, but would probably not want to be facebook friends with such a person. This is one of the great things about Linkedin, but it also makes it less social, IMO, and not as good for keeping in touch with friends or classmates who you know better.
AIMS
You can’t prevent people from putting up your picture if you are not on FB to begin with though.
I avoid FB like the plague and yet constantly hear from friends that they saw a picture of me from X, Y, or Z.
It’s obnoxious. But it’s the world we live in.
anon
This is a good point. Getting on facebook, even if you have a minimal presence, gives you more control over your online privacy in some ways.
Ann
As long as you manage your own privacy settings well, Facebook is not any kind of a risk. I reconnect with people I have done business with and hear about professional opportunities on Facebook all the time. There is absolutely no truth to the statement Facebook “is not of any professional benefit,” it depends on how it’s used. It’s not essential but it’s helpful.
Batgirl
I have to add that I find it odd when someone under 35 doesn’t have a facebook account, though admittedly this is only in the past three years or so.
TK1
I have my FB settings super locked down, but google myself today to see what came up and a random (not so nice) comment I posted on the NY Giants page wall came up in the 1st page of Google! I removed it (although we’ll see how long it takes Google to review the page, last review was in Dec), but I never would have thought something I posted on someone’s wall would come up on Google!
anotheranon
One of the first places recruiters search for candidates is through linkedin, so it would probably behoove you to at least set up a profile there. As far as employers/recruiters googling you, they are not using google to search for your name, they intially go in and google the skill sets and key words that they are looking for. If your profile contains what they are looking for, you will come up in their searches and if they feel that you are a viable candidate, they’ll contact you.
While it may not be as true for the legal field, there are lots of companies and firms that maintain facebook and twitter accounts. I know of several people who have found jobs simply by following the social media trails of the companies that they were interested in.
You pretty much have control of your online content. If you use it correctly it can certainly help you in your job search. There are several people who give free online webinars about leveraging social media. I’d highly suggest taking one-you’d be surprised at what you learn.
Ann
I’m not in law, so take this for what it’s worth. But the first thing my consultancy firm does when we want to hire a new consultant, are hired on a project, talk to someone interesting at a meeting, etc. is Google them, looking for their LinkedIn profile. If someone’s not on LinkedIn with at least 20-30 connections, we kind of assume they either aren’t well-networked or don’t know technology well enough to set up their profile, which is a problem for us. Every client we have is requiring higher and higher degrees of technical proficiency from our consultants, and social media is part of that. I assume that if someone doesn’t have enough of an interest in technology/social media to take 10 minutes and set up a LinkedIn profile, it’s going to be a tough slog to get them up-to-speed on anything else technological that they may need to do as part of a contract. LinkedIn is so easy, requires minimal interaction with it once it’s set up, etc. Facebook is different and I see that as more social, but the bottom line is, in this economy it’s your contacts that matter, not your resume, for most people who are hiring.
I’m frankly kind of flabbergasted that someone could be out of school over 6 months, have no job, and not be beating every bush imaginable to get a job. I know this is going to sound mean and I apologize, but seriously – if you don’t have a job, you can’t tell me you don’t have the time to get on LinkedIn, fool around with it for half an hour, take 10 minutes and write a profile and find some people to connect to, and then see what happens. I mean, what could it hurt? At worst it will have no effect and you’ll still be unemployed. You could, however, end up connecting to someone who can help you find a job.
Sorry, but seriously – I don’t get this attitude at all. Do you really want a job? It takes a LOT more than a resume these days, a LOT LOT LOT more and 90 percent of it is networking. Social media is a networking tool that makes it a ton easier for people to contact you and see what you’re doing. If I interviewed someone and asked why they weren’t on LinkedIn and they told me they blew it off as “not important” I would really question how interested that person was in working, especially if I saw multiple months of employment post-education on their resume.
Ann
multiple months of UNemployment, sorry.
Jay
Agreed. I have a job that I really like, but if I didn’t, I would be actively clicking through my LinkedIn network to see if there were any potential leads through any of my connections. Ignoring LinkedIn’s potential to help you is very short-sighted, in my opinion.
MelD
Plenty of people have valid privacy reasons for not being on social networking sites of any type. A person may be interested in working, but not so interested that they would give up a certain amount of privacy to be on the site. I have a few friends who became uncomfortable with them after being on them for years.
Kady
As someone who has dealt with stalking, I think this reply is far too aggressive. I’ve tried very hard to minimize the online presence of my “real” self, but that doesn’t mean I’m not social-media savvy. I sincerely hope that there is a place in this techy world for people who are sensitive about protecting their privacy.
anotheranon
I hope that you and others realize that anyone can go on to whitepages, spokeo and a multitude of other sites, pay a small fee and get all sorts of personal information on you. Heck, if you own property, your property records and info are public information.
Avoid social media if you must, but please don’t make the mistake of thinking that if you avoid social media, you are guaranteed privacy
MelD
I don’t think anyone is under any delusions that you are guaranteed privacy by not joining social networking sites, but not joining is something you can do to limit your online presence. Just because some information is always going to be accessible doesn’t mean one shouldn’t do what she can to try to remain as private as possible.
SF Bay Associate
Based on one of those viral Facebook profile posts, I recently became aware of and took down my Spokeo profile, though of course all Spokeo did is gather information about me from public (?) internet sources, so it’s all still out there though perhaps less conveniently now. It knew my parents’ names, my siblings’ names, my age, name, profession, credit score band, income bracket, and a lot more, including pretty much every address I’ve ever lived at. It was absolutely horrifying.
AIMS
@SF Bay Associate:
What is spokeo???
SF Bay Associate
@AIMS – Spokeo.com. “Spokeo is a search engine specialized in aggregating and organizing vast quantities of people-related information from a large variety of public sources.”
To remove yourself, search for yourself. You’ll need to basically browse the results of your name in any city/area you’ve ever lived in, and request deletion of each page one at a time. Another kicker – you can only have two requests per email. I had eight former addresses in there, so I prioritized the addresses, used my “good” email, my “junk” email, and my work email for two each, and gave up on the last two addresses. So far, no post-deletion request spam, so thank goodness for that at least.
Each time you find a result about you, copy the URL and then go to http://www.spokeo.com/privacy and paste the URL there, and fill out the removal request.
2L NYC
Hmm, I just did a search for myself on spokeo, and it couldn’t find anything. I wonder what that means?
Jenn
Just looked myself up on Spokeo and requested to have three listings removed. Creepy!
Anon
Ah ha! Victory over Spokeo. They have no listings for my name! (thank goodness–scared the bejesus out of me when SF Associate first described what it does) Thanks for telling us about this. Definitely something I need to keep an eye on in the future.
RoadWarriorette
how freaking hideous is Spokeo! Just requested my two listings to be removed, and emailed my family about it. jeez
coco
wow, spokeo is creepy. particularly because they have me married to my father (my mother kept her maiden name and apparently doesn’t exist).
Lynnet
Just checked for myself at spokeo. I’m on there, but almost all of the rest of the information they have about me is incorrect. I’ve checked out my profile on several of the sites like that, and they all get the same things wrong. I’m kind of confused about where some of them came from.
Ann
I have also been stalked in the past and am sensitive about my privacy, but there’s a difference between protecting your privacy and living with your head in the sand. As anotheranon pointed out, there are pay services out there that access credit reports and property information to create profiles of you that have your name, address history, employment history, phone numbers etc. that are way more revealing than Facebook or LinkedIn would ever be, as long as you manage your settings appropriately.
I realize my first response was a little strident and I apologize. I have had this exact same conversation with some of my friends who are out of work long-term and still won’t get on LinkedIn or Facebook to try some alternate avenues of getting a job. It’s like putting your resume on Monster – I have had people tell me “I don’t want to put my resume on Monster, no one ever gets hired off of that.” A good friend of mine just got headhunted and hired into a new job, at 20% more than he was making, because his resume was on Monster. The recruiter called him, he interviewed and got the job within 2 weeks. He didn’t have his resume anywhere else – just on Monster – but the company did tell him in the interview they had looked him up on LinkedIn and on Facebook to get background on him before the interview. It does work sometimes and even if it’s a one-in-a-million shot, to me that’s better than a zero-in-a-million shot you would have by not doing it. Times are tough out there and people are going to have to get out of their comfort zone a little if they want to get jobs. Sad but true.
surrounded by lawyers
Some very active, diligent job-seekers who are not on LinkedIn have stayed off because they are trying to pursue more than one goal at once, and see which pans out first/best for them. LinkedIn asks you to establish a consistent profile of skills and experiences. If you know exactly what field you’re going into or staying in, then that’s perfect. However, if you’re trying to pitch yourself differently to different employers, it could backfire. We shouldn’t assume these folks are lazy or unaware; in fact I think this makes sense for people in this situation, which in this market many people are.
North Shore
Well this thread is interesting. I’m a government lawyer and I do hiring, but I’ve never been on LinkedIn. I’ve never even looked at it. Maybe it’s a public-private thing, and just not a big deal in the public sector. When I’m looking at prospective hires, I might type their names in Facebook or Google to make sure nothing horrible comes up, but that’s about it. But to Cara, I guess I don’t see the harm in these sorts of pages if you can figure out how to use them for making professional contacts.
Lyssa
Perhaps I’m not the sharpest tack, but I don’t really *get* Linked In. I set up an account a while back (at least a year ago), and I connected with all of the people I could think of (former classmates, former co-workers from prior jobs, other people I might have met along the way), and then, . . . well, what? Periodically, I get a message that someone wants to link to me, which I pretty much always accept, but beyond that, I’ve never seen anyone make use of it in any networking capacity. My connections don’t seem to update it at all, as far as I can tell. What, exactly, am I supposed to do with it?
(I should add that I’m not currently job hunting, so this is more of a general question, or at least one retrospective to when I was hunting and trying everything that I could think of.)
Ann
If you’re not actively job-hunting and you don’t have to prospect your own clients, that may be why you’re not seeing the value. Also, as an FYI to everyone, the best networking on LinkedIn happens in the affinity/interest groups, not off of people’s personal profiles – but you have to have a profile to join the groups. I have gotten two clients and two developing leads off of my participation in groups on LinkedIn. Offering a thoughtful, intelligent response to a discussion question can expose you are a qualified professional to a lot of people who may then call you when they need help. Especially for attorneys who are or will someday be expected to prospect their own clients, I think LinkedIn is a great, great tool.
JessC
I’m with you about LinkedIn. I have an account, 30-something connections. And nothing useful has ever come of it. Not to mention, most all the people I’m connected to on LinkedIn, I’m also friends with on facebook.
I think facebook would be useful in the social/networking sense because it allows you to connect with classmates and former co-workers. More than once I’ve seen friends post that they’re office is looking for new people or they heard so-and-so firm is hiring, etc. In that sense, it could be helpful.
If you do join facebook, make sure you familiarize yourself with the privacy settings. You can pretty much make everything private except for your name and picture.
JessC
I should also point out, I think you need to keep in mind your network and professional community. Most of my professional network are former classmates and colleagues who are in my general age range. For whatever reason, many of them DO use LinkedIn, but not to the extent that other commenters here have discussed. Most tend to use facebook far, far more and, therefore, it’s alot easier follow and contact them via facebook.
anotheranon
Like Ann, I am a big proponent of linkedin. I check in on my home page at least three times a week. My home page feed provides me with a status on all of my connections, companies and groups that I follow and contains anything from promotions that my connections have gotten, updates on projects that they are working on (provided that they have input that info.) and what companies have recently had departures and new hires. A lot of companies also post job openings on the site as well. Lots of my connections also interlink their linkedin, twitter and facebook feeds, although sometimes that can turn into a bit of information overload. I make sure to comment on my connections’ status updates or to shoot them a congratulatory email when I see that they have been promoted or changed jobs, because I don’t want to be that person who is merely out collecting connections. I have also received requests for informational interviews through LI and try to help out when I can.
I also agree that you should join relevant groups and particpate in discussions. The job market is still volatile in some fields and even if you are employed, you should be maintaining an active network. LI is a great tool for that.
Ashley
Long-time lurker, first time commenter! I’m currently in Marketing and working on my MBA, and LinkedIn has already been invaluable to me. We had to pick groups for our first day in class, and since I didn’t know anyone, I was able to check out their credentials on LinkedIn while I was sitting in class. All I needed was their name, and we didn’t have to worry about collecting email addresses, phone numbers, etc. to be able to form a well-balanced group.
During my job hunt, I used connections from college to get two informational interviews and resume help. In addition to LinkedIn, I posted up on FB, and made a YouTube video for my blog to send to employers. I ended up getting an interview (and ultimately my current job) because they liked my video and use of social media. I think these tools are a great way for people to “passively” get to know you before taking the leap of time and money to interview, hire, or recommend you.
I’ve dealt with these questions a lot, so if you’re interested you can take a look at http://musingmarketing.com/2009/08/25/bridging-the-knowledge-gap/ and http://musingmarketing.com/2010/08/31/private-linkedin-profile-frustration/ for more issues concerning LinkedIn and social media in general.
Anonymous
LinkedIn only shows up in Google if the person has chosen to make their profile public – shouldn’t you be searching on the LinkedIn site instead of googling?
anon
I’m in law and I regularly google and look up internship applicants on facebook. If I find that I have contacts in common with the applicant, I would sometimes get in touch with them and ask them to comment on him/her, which I find very useful. If a person has no facebook presence, I wouldn’t make a big deal out of it, but I might think of them as slightly antisocial/not very modern.
Just set up restrictive privacy settings, and you should be good.
govvie girl
Great answer…”not very modern.” I’d also add “not very self-marketing” if I can make up a term. While I think colleges and professional learning institutions should be advising students on the best ways to acquire employment, not all do, nor are all students super-proactive or even comfortable at the self-marketing thing (me included back in the day). Hopefully Cara has picked up some helpful information here to guide her next step.
Ballerina girl
Echoing the comments here that facebook can be important. It takes a bit of thought on how to manage your settings to make it work as both a social and a professional tool, but it’s worthwhile. I have made it so that anyone who is even a potential professional contact (former, present coworkers especially) can only see my basic information and my main profile picture–I added them to a special list and then made my default “only friends, not “name of list”. They can’t see anything I don’t want them to see, but I can “opt” them in if I’m posting an article that I wouldn’t mind them seeing, etc.
I am on LinkedIn too, but at this stage in your career, I don’t think it’s do-or-die (though why not put something up–it takes 20 min. I just posted my resume in there). I think facebook is much more useful–but only if you work it. You’ve got to use it to stay in touch with people, to set up happy hours, etc with your alumni and former coworkers (if in the right field). It’s all about how you use it.
As for privacy concerns, I hear you. It’s a tough call to make. I have decided that for me, it’s worth it to have the profiles up so I can stay in touch with people, but I am very protective of what is associated with my profile online. I try not to pose for (over-the-top, fall down) drunken pictures, let alone let them up on facebook with me tagged in them.
Bonnie
Check out this article on social media and the law: http://abovethelaw.com/2010/12/the-big-secret-of-social-media/#more-50343
I think linked-in and facebook provide great opportunities to network. Nobody would hold it against you if you choose not to have an online presence but I see it as a wasted opportunity in a tough job market.
Lola
This is exactly the right answer. If I was looking for a job, I’d be using every tool in the toolbox. If you don’t want to do that, it’s your choice, but you need to make sure it’s an informed one.
coco
I have more questions about to best use Linked In. I am currently unemployed and looking for work, but don’t know what to write as my professional “headline”. Job Seeker? Interested in ___? Any suggestions?
Any other tips for information to include or exclude from Linked In?
anotheranon
I have been told that it is not a good idea to state in your professional headline that you are job seeking. Just state that your are a “legal professional” or something similar if you are not in law. You can use your summary to subtly address the fact that you are looking for work.
Also, do not use your status section to complain/worry aloud about your job search. I’ve seen it done and have heard that it is a turn- off to recruiters.
Hmmmm, maybe Kat should do a using LinkedIn post.
Boston atty
Absolutely second the request that Kat do a LinkedIn post.
Laura
I think “Legal Professional” would be great. I also have a friend who wrote “Problem Solver” while he was job searching. Maybe it’s just me, but I thought that was to-the-point and impressive.
N
I don’t think either are necessary for getting a job, but like others have said, it doesn’t take a lot of time to set up a LinkedIn account to have an online professional presence.
When I worked as a student assistant in a world wide consultancy firm, the consultants would regularly use LinkedIn to gain information on potential hires. It wasn’t all they used, but it was one tool to gain knowledge about the person’s existence.
When I was about to start my job search before graduating, I googled myself. Then I saw what prospective employers would see, lots of stuff from when the Internet was relatively new to the public and I was still using my real name and writing and publishing stories online under it. And I was in my mid-teens (so the stories were far from great). I got them removed from the site that had them, but the Internet has a long memory.
My Facebook is about as locked down as it can be while having an account and participating, and opening up that to be found was just a big no-no.
I ended up setting up a LinkedIn account, as well as registering at some recreational sites that I’d used, that also featured in my resume, under my full name (which I would use on the applications), such as recipe sites or running sites. I did this to gain an online presence under my full name, so prospective employers wouldn’t see the things I did back in 1995/96 as the first Google hits.
Has it been useful? I don’t know, but I did get a great job in the end, so I am happy with the result regardless.
Midori
Hmm. I hate to say it, but… makes me think “laundry accident.”
Emma
Heh, true. Too much going on — would be hard to pull off I think.
D
You’re right, it reminds me of bleach. It’s not very appealing to me.
Mella
Reverse for me: it reminds me of ink leaked from a blue pen.
Makeup Junkie
it makes me think “dinner on the lanai”
i'm nobody
Agreed. Batik/Tie-Dye is best left at home, IMO.
L
I agree. I don’t think this looks professional at all. Rather old lady-ish and looks like it could make a girl look larger than she really is. It doesn’t even flatter the perfect shape of the display body-form. Yuck. No worries, I’ll keep reading this site. Usually the style tips are spot-on. Everyone can have an “off” day.
anon-ny
I think this is beautiful and I have a couple of things to return to anthro so I am going to be tempted to check this out in person…..
MsZ
Love it! Dreaming of when it’s warm enough to wear cotton cardis again . . .
AtlantaAttorney
Love it. This a great transition piece when folks are still wearing their darker winter colors but ready to start showing a splash of color as spring gets closer. Also would look great with white linen pants for a summer evening when it gets cool after sunset (not that that’s an issue here).
J
I fear that this is one of those items that I see and think, “ohh, pretty” but I would never be able to pull off, especially at work.
I love, love, love anthro and would probably wear their stuff constantly if I had an artsy job, but at BigLaw…. meh, I can’t justify the prices for something I’m only going to wear on my couch. (Yes, it’s possible that I have a bad attitude about buying non-work clothing — if it can’t do double-duty, I usually won’t buy it. Except jeans and work-out clothes, which I consider to be “essential”!)
Elle 2
“I fear that this is one of those items that I see and think, “ohh, pretty” but I would never be able to pull off, especially at work.”
This is how I feel 95% of Anthropologie’s stock.
Elle 2
Whoops – this is how I feel *about* 95% of Anthropologie’s stock.
Kady
This (x2)!
Anon L
This.
Amy
Agreed – I find I get better wear/usage out of JCrew’s more “trendy” pieces than 95% of Anthro’s stuff. Its a shame, but I just can’t justify spending that kind of money on things that are perfect for weekend brunch dates…but not much else.
i'm nobody
And (not that J.Crew is top notch), Anthropologie’s quality leaves much to be desired.
btsbsc
This! I can’t get behind anthro’s prices, their stores are junky, and I have trouble combining their pieces into my conservative wardrobe. It feels too costumey. They recently had a necklace made out of paper clips and magazine paper, aka trash, selling for $160!! That said, I love this sweater!
Anonymous Poser
I think this design could be interesting on a scarf, but it’s a little much for me on a cardigan.
Miriam
Agreed!
skippy pea
Cute!
But I am already bored of this silhouette! Would have much preferred it in regular shape.
surrounded by lawyers
Between the large print and the drapey shape, this would be murder on me. But I like it. Enjoy, others!
LPC
Uh, no. No offense meant.
nonA
For a large, bold print, I like a more fitted sillhouette – otherwise, I feel like I’m wearing a mumu to work.
coco
I used to wear muumuus to work – trust me, this is a very conservative print for a muumuu.
Jen L
Sorry for the threadjack, but I’m looking for information from anyone who is a recently admitted attorney in New York’s 2nd Department.
I passed the July bar exam and submitted my character and fitness paperwork in early December (should have done it earlier) but have not been contacted yet about an interview. Does anyone know how long the process takes? I don’t have a job yet and would like to do contract work while I keep looking, but most of the contract work I’ve come across requires me to be admitted already. I’m just wondering how long it took other people to get their interview scheduled and then get sworn in.
anon
Have you taken your Orientation to the Profession Class yet? Because I think that one has to come first.
AIMS
Sign up for that class ASAP.
You can’t get admitted until you take it.
Jen L
Yes. I took it nearly two weeks ago.
Ballerina girl
It takes forever. Seriously, though, it takes about three months if I remember correctly. I just remember it took me a lot longer than my friends in the First Dept. I think I submitted my paperwork in Feb (late, for sure) and was admitted in June? You’ll have to do an orientation class (sign up for that as soon as possible because they fill up) possibly in White Plains (that’s where I did mine), too. Good luck!
Geri
I did 1st Dep’t. I applied way early (the week results were in) and my interview and swear-in are scheduled for next week. But my boyfriend (also 1st Dep’t, took the bar a few years ago) didn’t apply until many months after bar results were in, and he didn’t get sworn in until June, nearly a year after taking the bar. I don’t know if this is at all relevant to 2d Dep’t, but it may be.
For people thinking about taking the bar, this is why I took NY and NJ at the same time. In NJ, I was admitted a few weeks after bar results were in (Nov. 2010), so now I can say that I am a lawyer/attorney. Also, it’s easier to waive in to other bars from NJ than from NY. On the downside, NJ has distinct CLE requirements that basically require you to go to NJ to complete them.
Anon
I spoke with someone from the NJ CLE department, and they said that you do not need to physically be in NJ to complete their CLE credits. In theory, you wouldn’t have to go to NJ at all.
Meaning, if the NY City Bar/PLI/etc. offers a course on NJ-specific law in another state (say NY), that’s fine and will count towards the 15 NJ-specific CLE requirements (if it is in one of the 9 subject areas, of course).
AIMS
As a newly admitted attorney, you have to do at least SOME portion of your CLEs in NJ — this is what I was told by the NJ CLE people.
The rest, you can do on DVD anywhere, but a set number of hours are required to be in state.
On an aside: NJ CLEs are the worst. I am seriously considering withdrawing from the NJ bar. Biggest waste of money — between all the CLEs, pro bono fund payments, registration fees, etc. Wish I never took that state’s bar. If you don’t think you’ll actually practice in NJ, I would consider cutting your losses now. If it’s a matter of 1-2 court potential appearances over the course of a career, you can always get admitted pro hac.
i'm nobody
I was admitted (1st Dept.) almost a full year after I passed the bar. It was nearly a decade ago for me, but be patient (and wear a suit for C&F and swearing in).
Sarah S
2nd Dept. takes a long time on their admissions.
I took the bar in July ’08 and submitted my application to the 2nd Dept. at the beginning of January ’09. I took the orientation to the profession class in Dec. ’08 to make things move faster once all my paperwork was in (great suggestion from one of my older friends). It took until the end of March to get my interview scheduled (for April). Sailed through the interview (no questions) and was finally admitted in late May ’09. From what I recall, this was a fairly standard timeline for my year.
You should probably be hearing about your interview in the next month or so. Hopefully, you’ll get a good interviewer who will fit you into their schedule promptly.
Jen L
Thanks for the advice everyone. I took the admission to practice CLE about 2 weeks ago. I’m just getting anxious.
RoadWarriorette
Sorry Kat, but this one just doesn’t do it for me. I look at it and think “tie-dye.”
J
Threadjack:
I’m interviewing tomorrow for my dream job, and have been answering the “Top 50 most common interview questions” in preparation. How do you ladies respond to questions such as “How would your boss/roommate/best friend describe your positive and negative personality traits?” I don’t want to completely whitewash my answer, but equally I don’t want to bring up weakneseses for no reason – plus, obviously, I have no idea what those people would actually say. Help, anyone?
eb
You might find it helpful to actually ask your roommate/best friend/someone you can trust to give you an honest answer without lying to make you feel better, or being so harsh that they make you want to go sit in a corner and cry. I really think honest self-assessment is something that you only get with a lot of time and a lot of experience – you might now underestimate yourself in some areas and overestimate yourselves in others.
As to how to spin the weaknesses question, I’ve heard a lot of people say you should not give an answer like “oh, I’m TOO perfect, I work TOO hard” – it sounds fake to the interviewer. I think better advice (that I’ve received) is to give an honest answer, but explain what you’re doing or what you’ve done to address that weakness. For example, if you’re a person who has a hard time keeping track of multiple jobs and priorities, what are you doing to buffer that? It may be keeping running to-do lists, taking classes in project management, scheduling your time, meeting with your supervisor regularly to keep track of what needs to be done when, anything. Or for me, for example, although I grew up with a fairly solid level of French, I know it’s dropped in recent years as I’ve been working and studying in exclusively English environments – so if it would be relevant in an interview, I would admit that and then say, but I am doing X to bring it back up, such as reading/watching the news in French, involving myself in a conversational French group, etc.
Good luck with the dream job interview!! How exciting :)
Lyssa
I definitely agree on the weakness question. I could never claim that I work too hard or something like that with a straight face; it sounds too put on. Talking about a personal weakness which you have overcome is a much stronger response.
I had this for my clerkship interview, and I responded that I tend to be very shy and quiet, and didn’t want to speak up in class. But I made a commitment to really participate in class, and realized that it was much more interesting and fun, and I learned a lot more when I did, and it forced me to come out of my shell a bit in law school. (I was still a student at the time of that interview). I felt like it was a very well received answer (and I got the job), so I think that you should aim for somethng like that. For the roommate/friend perspective, you could try to think of a point of contention between the 2 of you that you have overcome, for example.
Ballerina girl
My cheat response to the “weakness” question is to talk about ways I can get frustrated. Ex. I get frustrated when my projects get dropped or things aren’t followed through on. Frustration isn’t exactly a strength but if you tie it to something that they’d agree is an important thing to care about, it makes it seem like less of a weakness.
reg
Is this your first job? In every performance review I’ve had, your supervisor will list a few positive traits and something for you to improve on.
J
Thanks, all! I will use some of these ideas in the interview today. And yes, I’m currently in my first post-grad school job so no performance reviews to draw on yet.
chix pix
In my climate I can wear a cotton cardigan year-round, altho’ I don’t really like wearing cottons cardis. But this type of sweater I would typically see only on very big women, which I am not.
Anon
I just wrote the longest post asking for advice and got the “posting too quickly” warning even though I hadn’t posted today. So frustrating.
Far shorter version of my question:
2nd year attorney – former EMT. I have been criticized at my current firm for not “being stressed enough” – they don’t think I am taking it seriously because I’m not running around like a mad woman, throwing up before trial, no shaky hands when I meet with the senior partner, etc.
In my prior job I had to have nerves of steel, show no emotion, and god forbid not have shaky hands. I see these qualities as strengths. I accept criticism, recognize mistakes, attempt to improve, etc. I don’t however, act like every little thing in my litigation practice is the end of the world, because, well, it is not.
Yes, my work is important, yes I care about it, but the level of stress is just totally different. It is “you might miss a deadline” stress, not someone may die because of your mistake stress.
So, do you think I need to act more anxious at work to fit in, or can I keep being cool as a cucumber so long as I get everything done. I’m sure any former military, cops, medical personal who are now in other “stressful” office jobs understand.
Thoughts?
Nonny
Wow, when I am hiring associates I *look* for people who are going to deal well with pressure. I certainly don’t want people who are going to get so stressed out that they make silly mistakes or throw up in front of clients or whatever. So I would not worry about “fitting in” in that manner, and I would totally want you on my team!
But I guess the question is – there is perhaps a fine line between not appearing stressed, and appearing to not care that much about what you are doing. I don’t know if that is the case in your current firm, but I think a lot of people confuse being calm with simply not caring. Do you think that is part of the issue?
L
Ditto. It may be a difference in perception – they think you don’t care when you’re being calm. OR, you may be working with a bunch of hysterical nutbags, who think that anyone who’s not running around screaming doesn’t belong bc they’re too calm.
Do you get this attitude from everyone with whom you work, or is it just the particularly hysterical ones who make comments to you like that?
Anonymous
I am baffled by how anyone could think remaining calm in a high-stress situation is a negative. At my firm that is extolled as a positive. That being said, there is a difference between not being stressed enough (ridiculous criticism) and not taking things seriously enough (legitimate concern). I expect junior associates to take their work very seriously, even though it’s mundane and may sometimes seem unimportant (and is certainly never “life or death” — none of this work is) . That means prompt replies to emails, meeting deadlines, returning calls promptly, not checking their blackberry when meeting with me, being in the office when I need them, no typos in anything, asking thoughtful questions, trying to understand parts of the case/deal that are not directly related to their specific assignment, etc. If you’re doing all these things all the time, I wouldn’t worry about the criticism. Over time you’ll find senior people to work with who appreciate the calmness you bring to the situation.
janep
I agree. If you suggest that typos, small problems in cites, or the wrong cc are no “biggie” you are opening yourself up for legitimate criticism. People who pay a lot to their employees, and clients who pay for legal services demand excellence. You need to deliver. If, on the other hand, you are prepared, deliver an excellent work product and able to quell the outward signs of nervousness — you go girl!
Anon
I really appreciate your replies. I think you hit the nail on the head. I think a lot of the things my colleagues stress about and think are a big deal I think are a bit ridiculous. I try to have meticulous work product but I don’t lose sleep over small typos, etc. And yes, I do sometimes have those small typos.
I think I may come across as not really caring sometimes when something could be a big deal for our client. It is not that I don’t care or that I don’t stress. I just don’t show it. Learning to compartmentalize your work is great but you sometimes lose part of yourself too. (A recent poster said her personality didn’t fit with being a lawyer so there is an example.)
While it is a great quality to appear chilled out all the time even when you are not, it can eat you up inside and lead to some serious therapy bills. I have also learned to laugh and smile in totally inappropriate situations and I find that I still to some extent do that. I joke about something at work and realize no one else finds the situation funny but rather concerning. I think it makes me appear unprofessional when in reality it was a learned coping skill.
janep
You clearly have an intact learning curve. You’ll get this too. :)
Anonymous
I also have this kind of “poker face” at times and I have found it helpful to state to the person, “I understand this is a problem and while I may not look like I’m upset, believe me, I understand why you are concerned and I will address this immediately.” Make it clear through your words, not your demeanor, that you’re taking them seriously.
I have to say, though, that I wish I worked with more people who had grace under pressure, instead of freaking out over the smallest thing. In your past employment you really dealt with life-and-death issues. If someone made a mistake someone could die. Now obviously the stakes aren’t as high, although people sure like to act like they are! My aunt is a trauma surgeon and every day she deals with REAL life and death issues, not niggly things like “you forgot that word in that sentence.” I think a better sense of proportion would really make a lot of workplaces both more productive and more functional. Maybe you can be the person who brings that to your workplace.
Lola
I think maybe they don’t see you getting “excited” enough. It’s good to be calm as cucumber in a trauma situation, but when there is something that matters at the firm, they probably expect someone to be at least a little emotionally concerned about the outcome. (I.e., It’s ok to get tense when the situation calls for it, and be down if it doesn’t come out your way.)
Does the person who told you this know your background as an EMT? I ask because I recently went to a presentation on Veterans Issues, and when teaching us about PTSD, the trainer said that what we see as PTSD is really a survival instinct for the returning vets. That behavior is what kept them alive in the desert.
reg
I’ve been there too. My past job was in a plant, which is not as stressful as EMT or police officer etc., but it taught me that some things are just pieces of paper and I can control them. It’s not like the report is going to blow up and kill everybody or anything. When people say something to you, you could just gently remind them that “when I was an EMT, I had to learn how to work effectively even when my adrenaline is pumping.”
meme
This looks like something my grandmother would wear if she were about 50% more hip.
anon
My thoughts also.
Poorva
This looks like a pair of fountain pens threw up all over it. I think I’ll pass.
OP
Threadjack – DH and I have to take DH’s parents on a week-long Alaskan cruise to celebrate a big anniversary. Problem is that I have 3 kids under 4 and they will get nothing out of the cruise (except time spent with the grandparents and parents of course), they are charged the same rates as adults (we’re talking about $500 per person, even for the baby), and frankly, I’m not that psyched about being stuck on a ship for a week (I get motion sickness and cabin fever). I think I can beg off and ask DH to go with his parents and they can enjoy it more (they can go on all-day fishing trips, floatplanes, hikes, etc.) without worrying about naptimes, a stroller, car seats, etc. But, DH would be happier if I went and a part of me worries about someday regretting my decision about not treating my in-laws to the family vacation they envisioned. Another option would be to fly my mom up to watch the baby for a week but of course, I would miss the baby a lot. I don’t want this to get into a discussion about me needing to let go (and please, let’s not go into another breastfeeding debate here) because that’s not my concern and frankly, I’m not going to be able to relax and go to the spa or anything like that since I’ll be watching at least 2 little kids whether I’m on the cruise or not. Would you go if you were in my shoes?
K
Will your mother be okay with watching the kids while you are “having fun” (either real fun or perceived fun on the part of your mother) with the other set of parents/in-laws? Is there a children’s program available on the ship that could relieve you of some of the childcare burden?
Sorry, no real answers for you — just more questions to consider….
AIMS
Can your mom watch all 3 kids?
If not, look into what on-board activities the ship will have for the kids. They usually have quite a bit (maybe you can choose your cruise line based on their offerings).
Otherwise, I would say it depends on your DH & in-laws. I know I have avoided similar obligations, thinking if it was my mom, she would enjoy time with me alone at least as much, if not more. But I can tell you it came across the wrong way — like I was opting out & not taking the in-laws (in my case BF’s family) as seriously. So I would say, if you can afford taking the kids financially, you should just go. You may have a better time than you expect — and likely your in-laws may actually want to watch the kids a bit on the trip, too, so you may even get some fun downtime for at least a few hours at a time.
AtlantaAttorney
I sympathize with you. It is always tough when a well-meaning grandparent pictures a big family vacation but then doesn’t actually choose a setting that is appropriate to the ages of the children involved. I have been in this exact same boat (pun totally intended). If I were you, I would stay home and send your hubby along without you. His parents will probably relish the time with him, and maybe your mom can come stay with you and be an extra pair of hands while he’s gone. Send along a lovely letter saying how much you appreciate them, admire their long marriage, sorry to miss it but happy for them to have such a grand celebration, etc. And remember this when you have little grandchildren! :)
2L NYC
I don’t have kids, so take this as you will, but is this about the cost or about the trip being kid-friendly? Because my colleague from last summer specifically took cruises so that her family of all ages – grandparents to six month old baby could interact — most cruises have excellent child-care. Plus, an Alaskan cruise is an AMAZING experience. So if it is about the trip, then I would maybe re-think that.
If it is about cost, that is obviously a different question, which I leave up to other Corporettes and your own vision of your finances. But if you can afford the trip, go!
Lyssa
My in-laws (who are wonderful, wonderful people, but sometimes a bit overbearing) have recently brought up the idea of a family Alaskan cruise, too. I’m hoping that they drop it; I hate the cold and the idea of packing for something like that makes me shudder.
But, even so, I would recommend that you go. Cruises have a lot of things to offer for little kids (take a look at some of the trip advisor type sites about that line; they should have some good tips), and I’ll bet that you’ll wind up having a good time with them. Plus, you’re likely to have a chance to have some quality time with your husband, too. (We’ve been on 2 cruises with my family- all 6+ of them, and we found it was not too much “togetherness”, since you can pretty much do everything on your own if you like.) Encourage the grandparents to take the kids on an excursion or 2, and your hubby will appreciate having some time with you, I’m sure.
I don’t think that you should feel badly if you don’t go (particularly if money is a big concern), but I can certainly see why your hubby would want you to come and I think that it won’t be as bad as you’re thinking. I know that if it were my husband and I, I would miss him like crazy if one of us went on something like this (and he would me), and if I stayed home alone or with just a baby, I’d just feel sorry for myself and miserable the whole time. YMMV, of course.
Lola
Have you been on a cruise before? Most of them have excellent child care. Motion sickness is a legit concern, but I wouldn’t worry about cabin fever on an Alaska cruise. There are ports of call every day or every few days, and you can get off on shore and walk around in the little towns and see the spectacular views from the deck.
somewherecold
My parents did a cruise from Vancouver to Alaska, and my mom is fairly prone to motion sickness, but she did alright. There trip was not a lot of open ocean travel, so it’s calmer water. They also had a balcony off their room, which I think helped her, although it’s a more expensive room. But I would definitely make sure that the particular cruise is kid-friendly (childcare/activities/etc.), because it would really suck to be tired and nauseous and have to watch and entertain three kids.
Emily I
I think I completely understand your issues here. I have to say that as a mom of three young kids, I’d do what I could to gracefully get out of this trip. Have you talked about your concerns with your husband? Would you and/or your husband be able to approach your in-laws about how this kind of cruise isn’t really a good fit for your young family? Maybe putting the focus on how you’re afraid that having you and the kids couped up on a boat (when you don’t know if any of the kids will be motion sick – perhaps?) will interfere with the rest of the group’s enjoyment? Maybe presenting things on making the trip better for your in-laws (not necessarily that it’s bad for you) would help.
You could offer a nice long visit with the kids before or after the cruise at your place. If the cruise is not for a while, you could even have them for a visit and let them experience life with little kids for a few days before you bring up the subject of the challenges of taking a cruise with lots of little ones. If they’re experiencing how hectic just day-to-day life is, maybe they’ll see your point about the vacation!
RKS
How does your husband feel? Does it HAVE to be Alaska? Can you tailor your cruise line/ship choices to be more kid-accomodating? I have three young kids (and yeah, did have 3 under 4 at one point) and frankly, can’t wait to try a cruise with them because so many of the lines offer kid-friendly stuff to do. They WILL get something out of it — even if that something is time hanging out with you at the pool. To my kids, sometimes that’s the best thing ever. $500 for a week … works out to about the same as a week at a nice hotel for all of you, food included.
Honestly, I would make every effort to go and find a way to make it work, for all of you. I just googled “Alaska cruise with kids” and found tons of info, including write-ups of lines with kid programs, which offer babysitting, etc. This can work and actually be a great time for everyone.
Coach Laura
OP, I’ll chime in that I was in the same boat as you (ha!) are a few years ago and I say – try it. I hate crowded places (like Disney) and was worried about motion sickness. My kids were a bit older (6&8) but my sister-in-law’s daughter was 4: All 11 of us went on an Alaskan cruise with in-laws. I dug my heels in and didn’t want to go.
BUT…it was the best time. Most ships have babysitting services and/or kid-camps, so you should be able to treat yourself to a massage to make up for being a referee for abusive FIL! (Yikes!)
I didn’t get claustrophobic at all – though an outside cabin with a window was a must for me. There are lots of places to hang out that are empty. Kids can be entertained by walking around the decks, swiming in the kiddy pools. There may be a kiddy gym set or things like that.
The staff really likes kids and will do entertaining things for them in the rooms and at dinner. Think parlor tricks, surprises in the room etc. Food is good – no cooking should be a benefit to you and DH.
We especially likes the fact that everyone can chose different things to do for shore excursions. You are really only “stuck” on the boat on the way up and the way back: You can also book cruises to Alaska where you fly up and cruise back, which make more sense to me…less days at sea.
One caveat, we had a really rough trip back. One commenter below said that there aren’t waves because of the inside passage and all, but I wouldn’t count on it. Our staff told us that our trip was rougher than the CA-Hawaii route is usually! But the best advice is to book early and get a room in the middle of the ship (halfway between the bow and the stern to reduce up/down motion). Get the patches and put them on at night or at the first sign of sickness. On our ship the doctor gave them out but if you’re worried get them ahead of time. Our (later, more recent) Baltic cruise was uneventful and I didn’t need them but in Alaska I sure did.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Res Ipsa
I’m having a hard time understanding the premise. Why do you “have to take” your in-laws on a cruise? Did you and your spouse decide on this? Was it the in-laws’ idea? Do they envision a grand family vacation, but just don’t understand that the kids are too young to enjoy it? (In which case, can you suggest another option?)
Or are all of your spouse’s siblings stepping in to make this a family vacation, in which case? I think it’s totally appropriate to bow out to deal with child care and let your spouse enjoy the time with his biological family. Life’s too short to waste your vacation time on vacations with other people’s relatives.
anon
Others have addressed most of what I was going to say, but for the motion sickness issue, try to get a cabin in the middle of the ship (not towards the front and the back–sorry I forget the ship terms for this). There is less movement there.
Also, I don’t know that it’s really true that the kids will get *nothing* out of it…yes they are young and probably won’t remember much, but they will get a week of fun time with their parents and grandparents, and they will see amazing wildlife and a landscape unlike anything we have in the lower 48.
Alaska is amazing and I would definitely go if you can swing it.
RoadWarriorette
I have been on two cruises, both with family. The first cruise to Mexico ended up being pretty awful due to a storm, and I got very seasick. This made me super apprehensive about the next cruise, to Alaska. It was wonderful though. Because with Alaskan cruises you are often not out to sea very far, the ocean doesn’t move you very much and you hardly notice you’re on a ship most of the time. Experiencing the breathtaking scenery and wildlife would have been worth it, even if I had been sick as a dog. So I definitely think you should go. Good luck!!
Anonymous
There might actually be a lot of fun activities for kids on the cruise, and even babysitting staff. If you haven’t looked into this already, you should, because some cruise lines offer specific services for kids.
If you’re going to have to spend all your time watching the kids, and you get seasick, this sounds like the vacation from hell and you’ll all end up happier if you don’t go. I’d say to either go with DH and leave all the kids behind, or don’t go and arrange to do something nice for the in-laws with the kids when they get back from the cruise.
AN
why can’t you ask DH and grand parents to help watch kids? why does it HAVE to be you? especially if you are not a good sailor….
can’t you discuss that before you agree to go?
JessC
Interested in opinions from those involved in hiring:
I had an interesting interview last week (for what seems like a great 30-ish attorney firm that I think I’d be very happy to work at). It felt like a pretty good interview, but one thing I found very curious – the interviewers did the vast majority of the talking. As the interviewee, I’m accustomed to doing most of the talking – talking about my background, my work experience, why I’m generally awesome ;), etc. The only questions I really remember being asked were if I was ok with travel, when I could start, and what were my salary expectations. We talked for about 30-40 minutes total. Most of the time was spent talking about the firm, what it does, and how it does it. FWIW, I think I connected a bit with the hiring attorney. Years ago before he came to the firm, he worked a two of the same state agencies I’ve worked at (during and after law school), so we had some commonality on that point. They said they anticipate having a decision in 2 weeks (so probably next week).
So I guess I’m wondering is the fact that they didn’t ask a whole lot of questions a good thing, a bad thing, or just neutral? Thoughts?
SuzyQ
Good thing. They probably already decided that they like you and want to hire you and they just want to answer your questions and try to convince you to choose them. Also, studies have shown that people who talk a lot generally think a conversation went well so they probably thought the interview went great.
- j -
Hi JessC :).
Agree totally with Suze – the best interviews I’ve had (i.e. those that have led most directly to jobs) have been all about the company/organization/firm. So, I think they like your credentials and personality and didn’t feel the need to dig any deeper!
;) good luck
– j –
AN
Good thing. Both times this happened to me, I got the job. They must have decided to hire you already, that’s why they talked.
Mella
Without knowing anything about your family or his beyond what you’ve described: I 1) would not go. I’d wait till my kids were older so they and I could have a good time too. 2) Unless one of his parents was sick, or there is some compelling reason you can’t go in two or three or five years.
I had a hard time when my kids were little. To me they were little ticking time bombs. I couldn’t even go to a restaurant with them because I’d get too stressed out to enjoy myself; after a while not going out was a simple question of economics, because why pay when I knew I wasn’t going to have a good time?
Similarly, a co-worker went on a cruise with her husband and toddlers. They were looking forward to it for months. They get on the ship and the kids get sick and they stayed in their cabin most of the time. Total nightmare.
But finally… a friend moved mountains to cruise to Alaska with her mom. She couldn’t make the finances work to take husband and kids along, too, thus had to set up child care, kid transport, the whole bit. Why? Because her mom had cancer. “I honestly do not know how much time I have left with my mom,” as she put it. (The mom passed away two years later.)
I’m guessing there are no perfect solutions for you, but present these as data points. And I wish you some relaxation time.
Mella
Supposed to go to OP above. Damn.
OP
Thanks for your response. I know what you mean about kids being ticking time-bombs. Mine are like that as well. Only reason we can’t go in a few years is this is the major anniversary year and so the cruise is gift from us (and the other siblings). Wish we could send in-laws there alone but MIL wants at least another person there because FIL can be verbally/emotionally abusive.
Emily I
Wow – stuck on a boat with a bunch of little kids and you’re supposed to run interference versus a verbally/emotionally abuse old man, too? I have to change my answer above and tell my hubby he’s on his own!
Argie
Is the reason your husband wants you to go for emotional support for him? Is that a role that one (or all) of his siblings could play – which totally depends on his relationship with them, I suppose? Diffuse the parental dealings?
AN
Send DH alone.
Anon
Well, I don’t have young kids, but I have been on three alaskan cruises, so just a few thoughts to consider.
Almost every ship with the money has daycare options with dedicated staff. You could use them for just an hour or so at a time if you need a break. I’ve always heard great things about the “Kid Zones” on many cruise ships.
As far as the seasickness and cabin fever are concerned… well, if you’re doing the inland passage, there are very few opportunities to have any rough seas, so seasickness is not really a problem, but get patches from your doctor before you go if you’re really concerned. (They work wonders!) Also, people don’t spend that much time in their cabins, though I can understand with the kiddos, it might be different. I’ve seen many familys set up camp on desk around the pool for an afternoon (no one was swimming, but it was definitely nice enough to play outdoors).
Since DH and in-laws will be with you, I’m assuming they are assisting you with the children-wrangling? Some of the best childhood trips were ones with my family and grandparents. It was nice to have the extra attention, and I can remember that on each trip, there were at least one night that the grandparents gave my folks the night off.
I think it sounds like a great opportunity to introduce your kids to travel, and to take advantage of the extra help so that you might get a little R&R as well!
OP
Wow, three Alaskan cruises. Maybe I just need an attitude adjustment – isn’t it kind of like watching ice melt? Was it really that fun and memorable that you wanted to go again (and again)?
MelD
My sister and I both went on cruises with my parents, grandparents, and other relatives when we were that age and I feel like we did get something out of it. I went on the first one when i was 3 and then another when I was 4. I have been to Alaska twice (one at age 4 and one at age 14) and really loved it both times. There is a lot of interesting stuff to do when you are a kid with the children’s programs. I think most typically allow children at age 2-3 at no extra charge. I know I had a blast and so did my sister.
anon
haha! On our cruise, we did have a day in Glacier Bay, where we did literally watch ice melt. But it is much more interesting than it sounds. They stop the ship in front of the glacier, and periodically huge chunks of it “calve” off and fall into the water. It was one of the most beautiful places I have ever been. We also saw a ton of wildlife (whales, bald eagles, otters, etc–we were too early in the season for bears). It was definitely not a boring trip!
Anon (from above)
Well, I was born in Anchorage and left when I was 4 years old… I’ve gone back as an adult because there is so much pristine beauty and some of the most awesome displays of nature’s power. And yes, ice melting can be very dramatic! Like someone else mentioned, calving glaciers are spectacular.
Cruises, especially in Alaska with the touristy and family-friendly ports of call, are a great way to travel with the family. I mean, your hotel room moves with you! I think you’ll be pleasantly suprised by a) how much there is do to and see and b) how relaxing of a vacation it might be.
Anonymous
I have been on two Alaskan cruises. I’ve been a lot of places, and Alaska is literally the most beautiful place I’ve ever seen. It’s so perfect and pristine, if you didn’t know any better, you would think it was a Disney movie set. The wildlife is incredible. Plus, the weather is actually pretty nice during cruising season–highs are usually in the 60s.
Another Sarah
A quick question for you wise corporettes about something I thought about while reading the social networking comments above…
My name is fairly common in my city. As a result, a bunch of Sarah’s come up when I google myself. Only one or two of the entries are for me, the rest are for the other Sarah’s. Now, I would think that it would be pretty obvious which one is me or which one isn’t. However, I guess my hobbies/interests run parallel to theirs, and I have been mistaken for two of the other Sarah’s before. Because of the other Sarah’s success, I don’t actually pop up on google until the third page or so. People have come up to me at functions and say, “Oh, you’re Sarah! You should send me your design portfolio, I may have some clients for you!” and “Oh, you’re Sarah! Can I ask how you decide which arts organizations to patronize, because I really think…” In these situations, I’ve just said, “Haha, no, that’s not me, sorry!” Luckily, all the Sarah’s seem pretty successful and so no police blotters/horrible new articles come up. I guess it’s good by association, right?
So for the hiring corporettes, how long do you spend googling someone, and if you see something that seems odd or different from the person you have in front of you, do you do more research? Should I be worried about someone thinking, “What is this designer doing applying for a job HERE? Jeez…”? Or am I over thinking this? What would you do if you had an applicant with a common name such that you had to weed through pages of random people to get to the one person you need?
AIMS
Middle initials can be helpful here.
If I google someone with a common name, I will usually try to edit by googling with middle initial or middle name included.
anon
what if you don’t have a middle initial?
anon
I have a somewhat similar issue…someone with my name is fairly widely published writer, and if you google her name, a bunch of her articles are the first hits. I have partially addressed this by pretty much always using my middle initial (on my resume, when I publish things, etc.) She does not seem to use her middle name or initial when she publishes, and she lives in a different city, so I figure that people searching for me should realize pretty quickly that we are not the same person (althuogh once, when I was in law school, I had a prof. come up to me gushing about how great my article in the such-and-such journal was and I had to tell her it wasn’t me). Would that approach work for you? i.e. using your middle initial or even your whole middle name?
Another person with my same same name lives in the same city as I do, but does not seem to be widely known on the internet, plus she goes by a nickname and I go by the full version of our name. This hasn’t realluy caused problems, other than occasional confusion at the library or at a store…again, it is solved by a middle initial.
Overall, I am just glad that I don’t have the same name as a porn star or a criminal. It could be a lot worse!
Argie
I have a Same Name person who is a Rabbi in NY (I’m in the Midwest – and not Jewish). I know this because I have gotten emails at my email address (first inital last name@ email) that were very obviously not for me.
Another Sarah
Hm, I just googled myself with my middle initial, and I only came up as a daughter of my mom, who is not a Sarah. Otherwise it asked me if I misspelled my name (my middle initial is H). I know what I’ll be editing this weekend…
Jas
I have a similar problem. A women who has the same name as me lives in a different city but the same general area. She also unfortunately has a profile on some sort of dating site using her real name and some slightly less than tasteful pictures. I really hope potential emplyers googling me notice that it’s a different city.
I also had a woman with the exact same name as me (down to the middle initial) in the last city I lived in. She didn’t have much of an internet presence so I don’t think it was a problem. I only found out about it when I went into a different branch of my bank and it turned out she worked there! Her coworkers dragged her out and decided we even kind of looked alike. Weirdly, we also lived only a few blocks from one another.
anotheranon
Do you know anyone who does work in marketing / branding? Grab them and see if they can’t give you some pointers on search-engine-optimization for your name. That is, of course, if it’s important to you.
Internal hiring managers may spend some time scrolling through more than the first page if they are looking for you. Recruiters, however, usually stick to the first two pages.
backtowork
Back to the sweater: at my conservative law firm, this would immediately brand you as a secretary. Just wondering — would this be the case at other firms?
- j -
I know it wouldn’t fit in with most of the attorneys here – we’re not business formal, but still pretty sedate. A couple of outliers might pull it off, but between the pattern AND the colors… eeeh.
AIMS
Our secretaries all tend to be older. I don’t think this would “brand you as a secretary” at my workplace, but I think most cardigans, esp. patterned, run that risk a bit. I usually only wear them on Fridays or stay in office days. And, then I amp up the accessories to make the outfit more . . . intentional, for lack of a better word.
Mac
NY CLE question! I will be admitted to the NY bar soon, but I will be working out of state. NY requires newly admitted attorneys to have 16 hours of in-person CLE credits in each of their first two years. This will probably require a dedicated trip to NY (doing it in a sister state is a possibility, but it would have to fulfill specific categories, and not all states use the same categories). Does anyone have any suggestions for cheap(er) CLE providers or advice on how you completed you newly admitted CLEs? Thanks!
Jess
Not sure about the price comparisons, but one of the bar associations (NYSBA, I believe) offers 16-hour “Bridge the Gap” programs which fulfill your entire year’s requirement in a short period of time. Usually either two consecutive days. It might be the easiest way to get in from out of town and fulfill them all in one go round. Good luck. Trying to fill my Jersey credits gave me one heck of a headache before we could get NJ credits for courses taken in NY, and that’s only across the river!
a
I think that if you are not “practicing law in NY,” you don’t have to do the CLE classes, even if you’re a newly admitted attorney. If you’re working for a NY firm or NY clients but are out of state, this won’t help, but if you’re doing something totally not NY related, I don’t think you have to do the NY CLE.
Subpart B (Mandatory Continuing Legal Education For Newly Admitted Attorneys), § 1500.10 of the CLE guidelines say, “The requirements of this Subpart shall apply to all newly admitted attorneys, who are not exempt from these requirements pursuant to §1500.5(b), during the first two years after their admission to the Bar of the State of New York.”
§ 1500.5 (“Waivers, Modifications and Exemptions”) says, “The following persons shall be exempt from the requirements of New York’s continuing legal education program:
Subject to the requirements in §§1500.12(f) and 1500.22(n), attorneys who do not practice law in New York. Attorneys practice law pursuant to this section if, during the reporting period, they give legal advice or counsel to, or provide legal representation for, a particular body or individual in a particular situation in either the public or private sector.”
Hope this is not totally irrelevant for you!