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Wednesday’s Workwear Report: Stripe Knit Sheath Dress

Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices. Happy Wednesday! This stripey dress is a bold, happy choice — great for when you're tired of neutrals and want to make a statement. You can keep the rest of your attire neutral with black or nude-for-you pumps, or decide to go louder by matching the pink or red with a cardigan, blazer, shoes, or other accessories. The dress has a hidden back zipper and removable belt and is machine washable. It's available at White House Black Market in regular, petite, and plus sizes for $150. Stripe Knit Sheath Dress A lower-priced option from Calvin Klein is available at Amazon in straight and plus sizes. This post contains affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. For more details see here. Thank you so much for your support! (If you are interested in plus size workwear, please sign up for CorporettePlus, our newsletter! Signing up helps us gauge interest in the project, and we promise not to blast your email more than once a week at most. (Right now it’s more like once a month.) Seen a great piece you’d like to recommend? Please e-mail tps@corporette.com.

Sales of note for 12.5

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

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329 Comments

  1. Morning! Are there any local government lawyers on this site? I’m currently in-house at a large corporation but considering applying for position as a city attorney. The main reason is to shift my practice area from 40% of what I do now to 100%. I don’t personally know anyone who works in local government so any insight regarding pros, cons, and things to look out for when applying for and working in city government would be much appreciated.

    1. I am in those shoes.

      I am a litigator who came to govt. out of private practice, many years ago. While I do not regret it for a minute—it gave me the opportunity to raise a family, which I would have had to struggle for had I remained in private practice at the time–the notion that govt. work is M-F 9-5 is a myth.

    2. I have a friend in our big city city attorney’s office.

      He oversees many local boards (school, zoning) that meet in the evening, sometimes into the early morning if something is contentious. He has to go IN A SUIT. And is televised on our city’s cable station. He gets hate mail b/c people are haters with too much free time.

      1. I worked for a very large city attorney’s office for a year. I probably had about 6 hours of work to do every day, although other groups within the Law Department had much more interesting cases and heavier workloads. I left for a firm when I couldn’t get anyone to respond to my request to transfer to one of those groups. I got TONS of courtroom experience and my off-work time was entirely my own. It was very much 9-5 in my niche.

    3. I have a friend who has been doing this for a couple decades. Loves it. She does all of the contact work for the City in the Arts, and a few related things I believe. Amazing city. She has a great life, loves what she does, good hours, amazing benefits.

      1. In law school, I interned for the general counsel of one of the library systems in NYC. It seemed like the coolest job.

          1. Hah, when I was in library school, probably 10% of my class had JDs already. Very interesting overlap…

    4. My SO does this! Just switched over from non-profit. So far he really, really likes it. Hours are super normal with a bit of flexibility, colleagues are pretty relaxed and friendly, the work is interesting and feels directly impactful. So far his biggest gripe is that there’s absolutely NO work from home policy, and that includes really inclement weather (like, blizzard warnings). It’s a weird bureaucratic thing having to do with unions, overtime, etc., but he had to trudge in during an actual blizzard because he had no vacation days accrued, and apparently this has happened in the past during a hurricane as well.

    5. I am State govt attorney but know many local government attorneys. The work can vary so much depending on the size of the office, and the size of the city. If at all possible, you need to work your network and find someone that can give you some information about the actual office. I would focus on finding out:
      1) The workload. I strongly agree with the comment above that not all government jobs are 9-5. Many are, just don’t assume.
      2) How much interaction you are going to have with elected officials. If it is a larger city, usually the top attorneys deal with the city counsel. If it’s a smaller city you may directly interact with officials. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but it is a different world.
      3) How much interaction you will have with the public. Again, not necessarily a bad thing. At my last job I spent the majority of my time explaining State policy to the public, including a lot of policies I disagreed with. I enjoyed it, you may not.
      4) Is the office considered non-partisan. This may be called different things in different areas. But essentially, does the office stay in place if the city government changes? I would expect top management of the city (city manager, top city attorney) to be replaced if new leadership is elected. Esp. if it reflects a change in party. But some cities are bad about clearing out the entirety of certain offices (like all the city attorneys) when there new leadership is elected.
      Good luck. Working for the government can be challenging, but I find it rewarding!

    6. I interned at the city attorney’s office for a large city. I loved that what might seem like a trivial matter in other contexts can be much more important, and complex, in the context of a local government taking action. The attorneys I worked with were great lawyers and great people. All of the other issues raised above are accurate from my experience, and can vary by practice area, as stated. One other issue — while the line level attorneys are generally career government lawyers, you will ultimately be reporting to a political appointee. That may look different in a small city vs. a big city, but in a big city it can be a big deal. While I was there, the city attorney was recused from many of the matters I worked on because they involved conduct of her own or of members of her family, who had long-standing close ties to the mayor. The city attorney, and thus the office, is often subject to direct political pressure. And the occupant of the top job often changes with a change in administration, like other areas of government. How this affects your work may depend a lot on your niche.

    7. I did the reverse. I worked for a local government and went in-house and don’t regret it for a second. Many reasons, but here are the top: salary (much better salary + bonus in-house vs. lower salary in local govt. and never a bonus), exposure to resources and training are much better in-house, and finally I got so tired of “open government” with taxpayers demanding XYZ because “I pay your salary with my tax dollars.” The pace was slower at times, but if something newsworthy came up, I had to drop everything and work late to get something done to timely respond to the media or a PIA request. It was exhausting and after 14 years, I got out and I’m so glad I did. Think hard before you make the change.

    8. I went from big law commercial litigation to a very large city attorney’s office. What a city attorney does in my office varies drastically on what unit they are in. I do exclusively police litigation, mostly 1983 cases. As you can imagine, my unit is very busy and I work more than the average city attorney. I have multiple trials a year, and spend a lot of time in court and deposition, as well as in prisons and with the police. I am typically in a suit. A part of my job I really like is counseling the police department on police accountability issues, and working with the city to develop policies about that. The consumer protection and housing folks, or the people that work on port regulations, have a totally different type of job than I do.

    1. I can enter your email, but I can’t figure out how to send just a basic code

  3. Ugh — neuroma recovery is slow.

    I’ve been wearing Rothys since they are very flexible and the rubber bottom has more cushion than my normal work shoes. What else might be good to consider? We are bus-casual / casual at work (BigLaw) and I am senior enough to wear pretty much what I want. Outside of big meetings or client events, I am content to wear whatever makes my feet happy (that isn’t my Level 5 cushioning Hoka running shoes or Birkenstocks, which I save for non-work still). Is the answer just more Rothys? Or is there something else shoe-looking that still has some cushion and flexibility?

    Thanks!

    1. Have you talked to a doctor about this? Mine was very specific that I needed rigid soles.

      1. Yes, of course. I need give — any sort of standing or walking on hard surfaces is really hard on my feet. At home where I have wood floors, I have to put on thick socks and crocks or it is just painful especially if I have to stand for any length of time (walking is much better than standing). We have carpet inside at work, but in a building with a lot of granite and going out to grab lunch can be a chore to my feet. I wore real shoes with a 1″ heel one day this week with a merely lightly padded insole and it was no bueno.

    2. Friend had a similar surgery and wore the Naot mary janes. Not the most stylish, but man, was she comfortable.

      1. I have something similar and they aren’t too horrible. Was hoping for something a little less Straight Out of REI (which is where the Rothys are surprisingly good — I wouldn’t wear in place of real shoes to a real meeting, but they give a good “shoe” vibe and not an “Off to Asheville” vibe).

        1. Hahah “off to asheville” is exactly right! I’m in NC, and that is exactly the look on the Chapel Hill professor types (who I adore).

          1. Ha! I’m in Asheville and currently wearing Bandolino navy round toe flats. Yesterday I wore my Taryn Rose driving moccasins. But we love our “just back from a hike and now on to the brewery” vibe!

    3. There’s a brand called The Flexx that I really like. You may want to search for those. I’ve found them on zappos, gumps, amazon, etc. Good luck. Feet are hard!

    4. Vionics? They are extremely supportive but many of the styles look like normal shoes.

      1. I had high hopes for them but they just shredded my feet to the point of slicing the back my heel to the point of bleeding in just a few blocks of walking. They were great for standing in and have lots of support. They are great, but something about the last they are made on does not work for my feet. Recommend for others to at least try. Agree that they look like normal shoes.

    5. Did you have surgery for Morton’s neuroma and did I miss a post on this? Very interested to hear about your experience if you don’t mind sharing.

      1. I haven’t had it (yet) and am trying to avoid.

        Just round 2 of cortisone in one foot and trying to baby the other foot so as to kick this can as far down the road as possible. It seems that I am the person with very high arches, which means it may be a losing fight. If it matters: mid-40s, not overweight (but may become overweight if I can’t be as active as formerly long-term). No family history.

        I’m not optimistic — I can almost feel the marble re-developing below my toes.

        1. SO painful. I diagnosed myself after a day in western-style boots and pain that was honestly worse than labor. I have had cortisone shots about four times. They helped at first; they really don’t anymore. I would probably have already had surgery if I hadn’t taken a work-from-home job a few years back. The most comfortable shoes for me are stretchy flats like Yosi Samra. I can do heels, as long as there is a bit of a platform, for a few hours on the days I have to dress up for meetings.

    6. Skechers aren’t super business-y, but they are cushiony and come in lots of styles. I’ve been sticking to Rockport and Earth brand shoes since my bout with plantar fasciitis, which isn’t the same, but seems like similar symptoms and treatments (I, too, wear Crocs around the house at all times). I find that those two brands have very moderate heels (1.5-2 inches) and good cushioning for the ball of the foot.

    7. Do you have insoles? My podiatrist was specific that I need the Powerstep insoles. I can get away with just arch supports for a little while but otherwise I need flats that fit those insoles.

      1. Yes, custom ones just for this. They don’t fit well in all shoes (yes for sneakers and anything with an REI vibe). Helpful but not a complete cure. :(

    8. Recommend Clark’s Cloudstepper line. They’re not 100% fashionable, but they’re what I wear to commute when I have foot probs (previously plantar fasciatis). They have decent support but are also soft too.

    9. I had surgery for neuroma. Post-surgery, my doctor gave me a bunch of sticky foot pad supports that I could stick in “regular shoes” for more support in the area. I also have custom orthotics.

      Vionics are hit or miss for me. The ballet flats in one color fit me perfectly and accommodate my orthotic and are the most comfortable things ever. In a different color – nope! Sketchers are good, but they run large for me. In general, stiffer soles were helpful as well as the extra (dr provided) support.

      Taryn Rose used to be better but they are very expensive and not as great as they used to be.

    10. You really need to talk to your podiatrist. I’ve had good luck with Ziera shoes, because they have good support, good metatarsal support, and have wide shoe box. They have nice flats and sandals. I wear Naot as well, but I find it to run Narrow, which is a big no no for any foot issues. I also like Taos Footwear sandals – as they have good support and are wide, and of course Birkenstocks. Out of all that I mentioned – Ziera are probably the most stylish. However, you should really forget about heels, and prioritize comfort over style. Foot pain is just not worth it.

    11. The most comfortable flats I own are the TOMS Jutti in suede. They fit right out of the box with virtually no break-in time, and I have my 9mm heel lift in one and ultra-thin absorbent liners in both. They don’t have arch support, but they are far more comfortable than my Sam Edelmans or Geox or really any other flat, and they have rubber soles.

      When I’m at home, I wear OOFOS. I learned about the brand from a runner friend ordered a pair of the original thong sandal and they are wonderful. My mother was having terrible problems with one of her feet and on a whim I sent her a pair of the low shoes and they were the only pair of shoes she could wear without pain.

  4. What is the maximum pay cut you’re willing to take in order to pursue your “dream job” in another industry? Keeping in mind you probably won’t be able to return to your current industry if things don’t pan out. For those who currently make a lot of $$$, how accustomed are you to the higher standard of living and how much of your identity is tied up to your job?

    I’m contemplating making a career switch that would involve a 90% pay cut while working similar hours (45-50 hours per week). Is it complete folly?

    1. 90% is a bit much. I ran for office last year though, which would have been almost a 50% pay cut, and I spent a good bit of my own money on my campaign, so it’s not a far bridge to 90%! But I think it depends on household income and the like.

    2. My first reaction was a hard no on a 90% paycut but if you’re making 800K, have paid off students loans and tucked away a mortgage/retirement nest egg, then why not move to 80K for a dream job. If current job was negatively impacting my mental or physical health and 10% was enough to live on, I’d take it in a hot second. No money is worth sacrificing my health for.

      1. OP here – yes it is. Made $400k last year including bonuses. New job starts out at $40k, prob tops out at $70k. Husband makes $100k but in an industry going through tough times (last job he made $50k).

        1. In that case, throw in husband possibly going to $0K. Maybe not a good time to walk away from 90% of your salary? Is there nothing in between?

          The one exception — are you close to retiring (as in 55+ minimum)? In that case, as a retirement career that keeps you from drawing down your assets and gives you medical care, maybe it’s OK.

        2. I am in a career where I make mid-40s and if I’m extremely lucky after years of hard work I’ll make 70k. I’m doing fine.

        3. That kind of a pay cut is basically retiring early. If you can’t afford to retire, you cannot afford that pay cut.

          Your dream job is a lifestyle choice. Can you afford that?

        4. How old are you? Can your household live on $100-$125k/year (you + DH)? If not, what changes would you need to make?

          I’d think about funding retirement, paying off mortgages, if you have or will need childcare, those sorts of things. If your school loans and mortgage are paid off, your kids are out of daycare, you have signifsnt savings, etc you’re in a very different place than if you’ve only spent a year making $400k.

    4. I took a 70% pay cut. Honestly, I needed to get used to the fact that my worth wasn’t measured in dollars. The adjustments to spending were easier! Helps that DH has steady good income.

      1. THis. There is no required lifestyle that you must maintain. I took a huge paycut to work in an area that was perfect for me. The lifestyle cuts were tough, but looking back, I’m glad I went through them. There’s a lot of freedom for me in knowing that I can get by on a lot less, and that things I thought were necessary or “my right” … really aren’t.

    5. I moved from BigLaw to government as a senior associate, so took about a 55% pay cut considering just salary and about a 65% pay cut if you also consider bonus. I don’t even make what a BigLaw first year makes, and likely never will again. But Biglaw was affecting my health and I hated it, so the pay but was worth it.

      I knew this was a move I wanted to make long term, so planned my life in BigLaw around it. I didn’t buy in to life style inflation, bought a house I could pay for on a government salary, and saved a big retirement nest egg.

      If you are not sure that you can afford the pay cut, could you try living on the new field salary for a while (6 mts, a year?)) and see how it goes. Either it will work out and you have the benefit of an ever bigger nest egg before making the move or you learn that you can’t live on the new salary and need to reevaluate your spending or moving to new field.

      1. Yep this. Start living on that paycheck now. See if it’s sustainable, while you build up a huge cushion for any hard times in your DH’s job. Lots of people live on less than $100K HHI, so it’s certainly doable, but you know your budget and circumstances better than anyone here. Commit to 6 months on the “new” salary and reassess at that point whether this is still a dream job and whether it’s the right time in your lives to make the move.

    6. Only you know your finances. I know mine, and 40k would in no way meet my needs.

      1. +1

        and your desired lifestyle. My husband and I enjoy traveling several times a year, and our annual travel budget is… not quite, but almost, the take-home pay for someone making $40k.

        1. $40k on travel is….insane. I love to travel, take 1-2 international trips and 3-4 domestic trips every year, and I can’t imagine spending $40,000 annually on it.

        2. Come on people, this is not rocket science. I’m sure if she wanted to have a $30,000 travel budget, she wouldn’t consider accepting a job that pays $40,000. Just because this salary wouldn’t work for you doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work for lots of people. Many people live perfectly comfortable lives on this kind of salary – especially if they have a spouse that earns six figures.

        3. We spent $20,000 last year (remember there are two of us, so speaking collectively) — three international trips and three domestic. Just the airfare on 6 pairs of flights was $6-7k… this is not insane on a combined income of $400,000 or so.

          Take home pay for a $40,000 salary is around $30,000, right? Hence my “almost” in my original comment.

          1. And before anyone jumps on this — usual disclaimers about YES we have good retirement savings, we purchased less house than we could technically “afford,” don’t have a car (city dwellers), and are frugal in other ways, such as not dining out very often. Travel is our splurge.

          2. Ok, but then you’re comparing apples and oranges – travel costs for two people versus the salary for one. Spending $20k total on travel is not impossible with a household income of $140ish if you are otherwise very frugal (my household income is less than $200k and we spend $20k on travel. Like you it is really our only splurge and we have a smaller house etc.)

          3. @Anonymous — fair. I was just trying to illustrate the enormous adjustment this would represent to the OP, though. Having one partner’s take-home pay reduced such that it’s now on the same order of magnitude as what the couple PREVIOUSLY spent on something totally discretionary… is a lot to handle!

      2. Depends a lot on your cost of living. On a HHI of $140k (her H makes $100k) we feel very wealthy and have everything we want – a nice house, meals out, lots of travel, etc while fully funding retirement and putting a lot of money into our kids’ 529s. But we don’t live in NY or the Bay Area or some crazy expensive place like that.

    7. I don’t think it’s helpful to think about percentage paycuts. That’s just something people do to humblebrag – “I took X% because I love my family/serving the public/living in a commune now give me all the accolades for my sacrifice”.

      Look at the numbers. On the new salary, could you still afford a lifestyle you’re happy with? What sacrifices would you have to make and are you and your family prepared to make them?

      1. Right, and it’s only the people who are really high earners to begin with that have that luxury. A 50 percent pay cut to a $60-$70k salary (which is good for my profession) paints a much different picture, no?

    8. This is going to sound awfully classists so bear with me, but I think is relevant for a family that makes half a million dollars a year:

      I think that lifestyle change may be far more drastic than you think. At those salaries, you will likely have to downgrade your home, to the extent it is not already paid off, downgrade or eliminate any activities you have that cost money, pay off all of your debt beforehand, and largely decrease or eliminate the type of luxuries you have gotten used to at such a salary – not that that salary is bad, but going from $500k to potentially $40k will be like getting hit in the face with a hammer lifestyle-wise. $40k if you have ANY recurring expenses other than your standard bills and transportation will feel incredibly limiting.

      It’s a first world problem, but not having to budget or save for a long time for any of life’s fun treats or vacations is a treat that not many of us have, and it is difficult to adjust. Also keep in mind, no matter how great they are, your friends at similar incomes may pull away because you can no longer afford to do the fun splurgy things you’ve done with them in the past. That modest potluck is not going to be very appealing in your new small apartment compared to dinner at the new restaurant in town.

      1. Agreed. When I went from $0 to $25K, I felt rich. $40K would be OMG so much money. But going from a lifestyle at even $100K to $40K would probably pinch.

        My spouse was not out of work, but switched jobs and I had to pay $2K/month for health insurance on our very (apparently) average plan at work and that pinched. I’m not sure that 400K to 40K will work unless you try it for a LONG time to make sure that you can handle the items you may not budget for (your heat bill in the winter, winter lasting for 6 months, a new transmission for your car, emergency trip to care for aging parents, dishwasher dies, roof starts leaking).

        Also: on 40K/year, how will you save for retirement??? Esp. if your husband’s job is iffy?

      2. Exactly.

        I think we paint an overly rosy picture of “sacrifice” for “lifestyle.” If you are going from having household help (nannies, cleaners, etc) to freaking out about a transmission repair, you are going to be hurting. Low salaries have their own set of stresses, and my mental health improved a lot once I started making more money.

        If kids are involved, $40k a year likely means not giving them the educational opportunities you’ve had. It means not being able to help them when they are adults – even if you do not want to do that now, it is a hard thing to not be *able* to. If you outlive your money, it will be a stress on your kids.

        First order of business is always to make *enough* for expenses and retirement. If the money isn’t enough, the job is a luxury you can’t afford.

      3. OP here – I think you hit the nail on the head. Right now we don’t have to worry about money. We can afford to eat out often and take nice vacations. I don’t think we’ll be able to do that on the new salary. It is totally a first world problem. Mentally I think it’s worth the sacrifice in order to be able to do something meaningful with my life (new job is public service) and be proud of my work rather than just happy it affords me a luxurious lifestyle. But yea, not sure if I’ll really be able to stomach the change.

        1. I’m not sure what line of work you are looking at in the public service field, but know that some non-profit jobs pay very good salaries (not as good as the $400K you’re used to but I make $140K as a lawyer in a JD-optional job at a well known non-profit).

        2. Why not donate $40k a year to the public service in question so they can hire someone to do what you would do?

          4. Well, my question was asked because donating 10% of your salary is not, after a certain point, hard. It even comes with its own name – tithing. But asking someone to donate 25% because it’s A Nice Thing To Do strikes me as being generous with someone else’s money.

    9. I’ll probably be the only one to say it, but a man (and I’ll lump in modest income immigrants, or anyone that came from a less than privileged background) would never go from $400k salary to $40k to follow a dream – stability by way of money means a lot and all you are going to do is make your life harder – especially if your husband is in an unstable industry – you are putting yourself and your spouse in a precarious position which to me is unfathomable. Can you do this job on the side or something similar as a hobby? Sometimes I see women do things like this and just feel “one small step back for womankind”.

      1. I disagree. I know many men who took substantial paycuts to take a preferred job/follow their dreams.

      2. Totally disagree. I know lots of men and immigrants who have taken big pay cuts, either because it was a dream job or they wanted more time with their families. I agree if you’re single in NYC on a $40k salary you’re not going to have financial stability. But with a household income of $140k, there are many parts of the country where you can feel totally stable and financially secure. This income may be a big drop down for OP but it still puts her in the top ~5% of people earnings-wise, and hopefully she has really good savings from her very high-earning years. I wouldn’t assume she’s putting herself and her spouse in a “precarious position.”

        1. In what metric does $40K put her in the top 5% of earners? I think that statistics have shown us the dangers of relying too heavily on one spouse’s income, especially for women. That was the whole premise of The Feminine Mistake.

          1. $140k HHI is close to the top 5%. Maybe only top 10% but certainly it’s objectively wealthy. When you are married, the number that matters for your lifestyle is your HHI. That’s not “relying on your husband” thats just reality – you will have joint expenses and joint income flow. And she will still have the much higher earning power in a worst case scenario where they get divorced or something happens to him.

      3. I also disagree.

        I know several guys who left big money jobs to start very risky businesses/start-ups. They often lost money for a few years (no income).

        1. That’s an entirely different thing. OP isn’t taking a risk with a possibility of a big upside. She says she’ll top out at $70K.

          1. So? The majority of people in this country live on less than $70k – and with a spouse who earns a comparable or greater income, she’ll be objectively wealthy.

          2. Exactly. So what she is doing is actually much less risky, in my mind. I’m just making a point that men can give up a guaranteed big $$ for a dream too.

            One of my guy friends made nothing, and lost a ton of $$, and went back to his old career.

      4. Ha, most of my friends/siblings have relationships where the guys quit jobs to pursue dreams while the gals earn the stable money and bring home the health insurance.

        1. Yep. Maybe this is the millenial trend, but I know at least 3 couples who have done this and my own husband had quit a job without another lined up to find something he enjoyed more (thankfully before we had kids). My best friend’s husband does not work and they don’t even have kids.

    10. The main worry I would have in your scenario is financial security, not just reduced spending power. I live in a MCOL city and have a HHI of about $95K with mediocre benefits. Our stressors aren’t typically the “tips” to adjust to spending less money–buying less stuff, eating out less, packing lunch, skipping coffee. We do all that, but we’re still stressed about health care expenses (premiums and OOP), the car breaking down, the cat getting sick, the plumbing or AC breaking, etc. Having a huge nest egg saved up would certainly help (and did help for a while, but we’ve mostly used what we had saved). The big adjustment for us was the difference in security and certainty about what we could afford if X happened.

      1. +1 My dog got sick recently (manageable illness so far) and it’s eaten up the little savings we had. Our HHI is 220 in HCOL and we had just paid off our giant debts and started maxing our 401Ks. We rarely eat out, only travel on same coast to stay with family maybe 3 times a year, haven’t had a real vacation in years (scared to count how many) and drive a 10+ year old car that is thankfully holding up. But when the car gives out, we’ll have to stop contributing to 401Ks for a while to afford a new car. We are comfortable but haven’t been able to save anything outside of what we consider musts. Back when we were “rich” in LCOL area making a third of our current income, with no kids, it was truly amazing to just throw money at annoying problems and magically make them go away without expending mental energy or physical work.

    11. Probably if I was single, and definitely if I was married and had saved appropriately.

      Can you afford your current housing/major expenses at this level? Are you frugal by nature and have saved a few million from your crazy crazy (did I say crazy….) salary?

      Also, what do you mean by dream job?

      And it sounds like there is some possibility to go back, so that would be reassuring. Even if you couldn’t go back at 400k I wonder if a generous $100k+ option would be possible if things didn’t work out. Few industries close permanently.

      You only get one life. What do you really value? Lots of pretty things and a gold plated nursing home? Or following your passion and teaching your kids what really matters in life?

      1. OP here – I don’t have millions saved, but do have a substantial nest egg. New career would be something I’ve wanted to do ever since I was little and my thinking is exactly that… “I only get one life. I know I’ll always wonder what if if I don’t at least try this out”. Money will be tight but I think we can squeak by. Agree with poster above that we should try living with reduced salary for a few months before switching…that’s a great tip.

          1. +1

            Based on what you said here – I would also go for it.

            Curious… what does your husband say? If he is a supportive husband, even more reason to go for it!

        2. If you’re smart enough and educated enough to earn $400K now, that means you have some decent work skills. Even if this $40 k job doesn’t work out and you can’t go back to your previous career, you can figure out something else to do that earns you enough money to live on. You’re not limited to your current career or this one other dream one.

          And frankly, so what if your husband’s job isn’t all that stable? If he can earn $100K, then…he has decent work skills, too. If he loses his $100k job, and you lose your $40k job, you’ll both retool and figure out the next step. People do it all the time.

        3. I’d do it if the job were really a dream job.

          Like, say, starring in the revival of “My Fair Lady” on Broadway. Or being a Supreme Court Justice.

          But I feel like my definition of “dream job” also comes with a decent salary.

          1. +1 If my dream job makes me stay up and night and worry about not being able to pay my bills, I’ll keep my corporate job that keeps me up at night too, but provides for me and my son.

          2. Agreed. I’d do it to be an astronaut or a deep sea explorer. It would have to be a true *dream*

      2. Perhaps you might try making your point with a little less of a judgmental tone? There is nothing inherently wrong with valuing “lots of pretty things” and it is possible to raise kind, well-adjusted children while doing so.

        OP, if you think you will be happy at your new job on $40K a year, then have at it! Choices have consequences though, so I would really consider whether job satisfaction will outweigh all of the other things you might lose in going from $400K to $40K.

        1. +1.

          And I say this as someone who had a parent leave the workforce to focus on “what mattered.” It was hard as a kid to worry that our mortgage wasn’t going to get paid or my parochial school tuition wasn’t going to get paid. Normal stuff like needing a new roof, car repair, home repair items that I think of as kind of expected maintenance and have savings that will cover for my parents were disasters. I have a lot more financial anxiety and place a lot more importance on making money because I don’t want to have that kind of low level worry constantly in my life if I can avoid it.

          For me as a kid, it wasn’t about the pretty things the other kids had, it was about the real advantages they had in terms of graduating from college debt free and of never having to worry about things like buying textbooks and paying for extracurriculars. It was hardest for me that my mother chose for us to struggle.

          1. This is so true. My parents were both school teachers, but my sibling and I were very aware and stressed that sometimes car repair, dental care, the mortgage, or unexpected expenses were family emergencies. And we knew that we would be responsible for funding our way through college with work and financial aid (which was possible in the U of California system in the early eighties) but that was still a stressor for us, even though we graduated with very little debt compared to students today.

            Insufficient household funds are very stressful for even young children, no matter how or why it happens.

          2. The stress that always got me was when school told us about a field trip, sports team uniform cost, financial contribution to be in the school play, etc. and I knew I was going to have to go home and ask my parents for the money. I actually started working at a young age in part so that I wouldn’t have to do that, and never told them about a lot of those expenses.

        2. That’s your opinion. We can disagree, yes?

          I actually do not think it is healthy to value “lots of pretty things” or a ???$400k income (half a million HHI) over following your life long dream or passion (if you are so fortunate to have a situation like the OP). In general.

          Many on this website admit that they don’t give back. Many have a very skewed opinion of what a typical income/lifestyle is despite having very substantial income. Every day someone posts with a question….. “I have everything… but why am I not happy…..” and it surprises me how difficult it can be for them to look a little but further to find more answers.

          And yes, you can raise kind, well-adjusted children by prioritizing money/valuing things, but their values are likely not the same. I have seen it our in our own extended family. How can they be? Your values most close reflect your parents and what you see every day, particularly early in life. There is no way my trust fund for life nephew has any concept of what life is for most of the world in an empathic way, growing up with zillionaires in silicon valley. He is lovely and “well-adjusted”…. I guess…. but lives in dream world. Maybe that’s why when you ask him what he wants to be when he grows up, he says…. “I wanna sell an App and make a lot of $$$ and not work” rather than coder/writer/doctor/musician/cow boy/fireman/teacher/lawyer….

          BTW – judgmental tone? The way we jump over each other on this site over PC issues cracks me up daily. This is the most judgmental group I know. But isn’t that why we are here? To get opinions? To have discussions? To shake up our preconceived notions? We should shut each other down less, and discuss/debate more!

          1. tbh, “sell an app and make a lot of $$$ and not work” is my dream job also.

          2. New poster – I guess my question is why does it matter if your nephew won’t be able to relate to common folk because of his trust fund and Silicon Valley lifestyle? When will he have to? He’ll go from private school to private college to maybe a few years at a tech co to his own business. Does it matter if he doesn’t understand the rigors of daily life faced by a secretary in nyc living on 30k or the do gooders working at Legal Aid? He’s fortunate to not have to deal and if he’s a nice kid and not rubbing it in anyone’s face (which I assume he is since you say well adjusted), what does it matter?

          3. @ 2:11. I’m not the OP but I think it is important to have a realistic world view to be an informed voter, and to help decide what and how to give back be it financially or with time.

          4. Yes, I agree with Blonde Lawyer.

            I feel that part of our purpose in life is to try to make our world better. And that means being a part of it…. making choices in life/job/voting that make society better, for all of us. Not just ourselves and our immediate family. Everyone.

          5. I grew up with a lot less money than I make now.
            I value money because I value security and stability and opportunities.
            I like knowing that if I lost my job or became disabled my family wouldn’t end up on the street. Knowing that we could handle unexpected medical bills or get out if a natural disaster occurred. It’s remembering grandparents who stockpiled canned goods years after the war ended and who carried their passports and some cash everywhere in case they suddenly had to flee- because once they hadn’t been able to.
            I spent some time in Botswana many years ago when the cease fire broke down and my money let me safely escape a place where women were being mutilated by terrorists.
            It’s knowing that I could afford good legal assistance if I ever needed it.
            There’s more to the value of money than wanting pretty things. It’s safety. It’s an escape route if something bad happens. I think its a very privileged point of view to say that money only represents luxuries.

    12. Can you provide some additional context? What are you doing now, and what would the new job be? And how sure are you that the new job would actually be a good fit for you? There are several jobs I would have considered “dream jobs” when I was a kid that wouldn’t actually be a good fit for me as an adult (see: marine biologist, pet store owner, fashion designer).

    13. No, never in a million years, personally. Why? Because work is work, and you don’t know how that passion/dream will feel when you HAVE to do it, day in and day out, for far less money than you’re accustomed to. If you were going from crazy hours to work/life balance, that would be different, but you’re not. I know people who got their ‘dream job’ and are desperate to sell out so that they have the resources to enjoy their time off!

      1. Yes. My day job is pretty routine, to be honest, but it allows me to support a lot of causes that mean a lot to me, both financially and with my time.

      2. I agree with this.
        I have a “dream job”
        I’m a cancer surgeon.
        But you know what? A whole lot of the time its kind of boring.
        Every single thing becomes routine in time.

    14. 400k to 40k. NEVER. Not by choice. Doesn’t matter what the cause is, by own stability/family comes first.

    15. What’s the growth potential? I took a paycut of a third to move into the sector I really wanted to be in, not from a high base (£33k to £23k) and in London, so VHCOL. It was pretty tough to say no to things I’d afforded fine before. But a year later I was promoted and back to where I was, and two and a half years after that I was promoted again and on over £50k. If it had been staying at the lowest rate for years and years I wouldn’t have done it. But I was early career and no stability in terms of home, retirement etc, if I’d been set maybe I would’ve.

    16. This is a no for me. Maybe if I had lost of cash in the bank because I had been making 400K a year for a decade, I might consider it. But, likely a hard pass.

  5. I know this has been covered before, but I also know some of you are experts (paging Ms B!)

    We just bought tickets to go to Vegas this weekend – arriving Friday night at 11 pmish and staying through midday Sunday. We are staying at the Wynn. We’ve seen a bunch of Cirque du Soleil shows, so I don’t think we want to do that. Any current recommendations or ideas for a short itinerary would be much appreciated!

      1. Yes! We went there a few months ago and it was soooo good. We didn’t make reservations, but showed up soon after it opens for lunch and only had to wait 10 minutes. I’m not sure how long the wait can be at other times of day.

    4. We did a quick Vegas trip last month. I am a bit of a Vegas nerd, and I find myself there at least 3x/year. Recommend the podcast Five Hundy by Midnight for the latest Vegas news.

      From our last trip, recommend:
      – Blackjack Live at MGM Grand – It’s almost like Bingo for blackjack with a dealer and individual electronic tables… Minimum is low, and it was surprisingly a lot of fun
      – Sit at the bar at Gordon Ramsay Steak at Paris – Walked right in without a reservation, and the food is always delicious
      – Momofuku at Cosmo – I really wanted to try the pork belly and shrimp buns… Did not disappoint
      – Happy hour at sunset at Mandarin Oriental Bar – Best view on the strip for sunset, and it’s a lot of fun watching the strip light up. Make a res on Open Table

      Top Golf has been on my list forever…. I will get to it eventually!

  6. I feel so bad for Meghan Markle with all this family drama right before her wedding. It would be hard for any bride but to go through it all so publicly? Oof.

    1. Have not been following — I know she has a half-sister who seems to be choking on her own bitterness. But what is the new drama?

      1. I’m surprised you’ve been able to avoid it. Her dad is basically informing her of his changing-by-the-day intent and/or ability to attend the wedding via TMZ.

      2. Her father accepted money to pose for some paparazzi, then it backfired.
        He got into hospital for health problems and announced he wouldn’t walk his daughter down the aisle to not embarrass her.
        He did not discuss his decision with the couple and just made it public for them to find out on TMZ.
        He then got in again in hospital and changed his mind now saying he’d like to walk her after all.

        1. That’s awful for her.

          All of a sudden my family seems so normal (throw this in the mix though and some nutter would come out and find a camera).

          1. +1. I could never be in politics because I’m sure someone (family, friends, exes) would find a camera and lose their mind. Probably more than one someone. My heart goes out to her having to go through all this publicly – she isn’t a Kardashian so I imagine this kind of public drama has to be embarrassing for her.

        2. And now he’s having heart surgery this week so he’s definitely not going to the wedding. I can’t believe the guy was talking to TMZ instead of his daughter.

        3. It’s embarrassing but we don’t choose our families. Even if this marriage doesn’t work eventually for XY reasons, at least she went through with it family drama or not.
          Her dad needs heart surgery so won’t be attending the wedding after all. Her mother might be walking her down the aisle, and worst case someone from the groom’s family would step in.
          None of this drama is mentioned in the UK, people are just excited for which flavor cake they’d have.

          2. Way to go, UK people! If they are being true to form, the oddsmakers have probably put down odds on cake flavors.

            [Other than chocolate and vanilla, are there options? I had wanted key lime pie at my wedding or perhaps cheesecake, but an outdoor wedding in the SEUS in the summer meant that that would maybe kill people, so we went with vanilla.]

          3. I never understand why women can’t walk themselves down the aisle. I’m not anyone’s property and no one is giving me to a husband – I’m choosing to marry him on my own.

          5. FWIW, I walked down the aisle with my father but sans attendants. Most Sundays as a single woman I had managed to find my way from the back of the church to the front and back. Wanted my friends / sibling to be able to sit during the ceremony.

          6. In Jewish weddings, both the bride and groom are walked down the aisle by both parents, so it’s more like a joining of two families than anyone being property (although there are other problematic aspects of traditional Jewish weddings re women as property).

          7. I walked down the aisle alone.

            Harry and Meghan are bucking tradition by having a lemon elderflower cake instead of fruitcake.

          9. Yeah I hate the “who gives this woman” shtick. Um I give myself? Because, oh hi there, I’m an actual person?

          10. What does lemon elderflower even taste like? I am developing a strong lemon aversion due to the scent’s use in so many cleaning products. Is it legit good or the sort of thing that people choke down?

          11. To caaaake , yes it’s why they are excited. They are making mini cakes with lemon elderflower to serve during the special afternoon tea (like the one at Fortnum’s). They even are making lemon elderflower eclairs etc. bakeries are going a bit crazy…
            Fortnum’s are adding a Southern red velvet cake as a nod to Meghan’s americanness

          13. Lemon elderflower sounds amazing. Those are two of my favorite c0cktail ingredients.

          14. Apparently, fruitcake is the traditional royal wedding cake flavor. Going with lemon/elderberry was quite a surprise to royal-watchers.

          15. Wow — I loathe fruitcake and it would take a lot of rum in it to choke that down. In the UK, fruitcake isn’t a Christmas-only thing? That is wild.

          16. I feel so bad for her, too. Gah. Families can be the worst.

            At my last wedding my divorce lawyer walked me down the aisle…

          17. It’s all over both the papers and online media in the UK. People feel sorry for her that her paternal family are so fame hungry.

            When the cake was announced weeks ago people were interested but not overly surprised as I can’t remember the last wedding that had a full fruitcake. Occasionally people might have one tier fruit (for the grannies), but generally people go sponge or Madeira instead ( with chocolate, vanilla or red velvet being common). The traditional fruitcake is very much out of style as it’s just not as popular anymore.

            People don’t even make/eat Christmas cake as often anymore (a more spiced fruitcake).

          18. Senior Attorney, that’s great. I got married young but I appreciated the idea of my dad walking me down the aisle. While I am not property, I am a human that needs support. Pre-marriage, I would primarily turn to family for support. Post-marriage, I turn to my husband for support. I like the idea of someone looking out for me in addition to myself.

    2. I feel so bad for her. Her father should have just called her instead of talking to the media about it. Kensington could have put out a simple statement and prevented all this nonsense. Instead the guy is talking to TMZ. Smh.

      Her father’s side is sooooo trashy.

      On the other hand, Meghan is marrying into a family with more than its fair share of controversy and scandals!

    3. It’s very public in the US, but I find the UK media has been very kind about not making this sensational news. There are still many street parties planned, and special afternoon teas and viewing events.

      2. I think you have this backwards…I’m American but I’m getting all my news about this from the Daily Mail. It’s hardly been mentioned in the American press as far as I can tell. I think there was one headline I saw on CNN but it was about her father’s health issues, not the emotional drama.

        1. Funny, I’m in the UK and I get all the deets from TMZ. But now I am hooked on this daily mail thing, it’s so mean it’s kind of entertaining

    4. I do too. What a pain to have to deal with (an any time, but especially right before your wedding!)

  7. How do I organize my stand-alone freezer in our garage? It’s just a big box – I can never get to (or even remember) the things that have fallen to the bottom. Has anyone figured out a better way that my current method of unpacking 1/2 of the freezer when trying to see if I have any more frozen broccoli?

    2. 1) I have a white board hanging above my freezer where I write all the contents (sorted by category) and cross them off as we use them. A couple of times a year, we do a cleanout/new inventory.
      2) Reusable shopping bags are great for organization and easy to move around. So all the beef goes in one, the poultry in another, etc. You can also use milk crates or similar stacking boxes, but that takes up more space.
      3) We buy in bulk sometimes and then break up packages into vacuum sealed bags that we label. They fit into the shopping bags better and I keep tabs on the white board.

    3. Is it an upright or chest freezer? My upright has 5 shelves. I put meats on the bottom, fruits/popsicles/ice cream on the next one, veggies above that, baked goods on the following one, with dry goods on the top. Reasoning is that the bottom is colder than the top, and if power goes out anything dripping won’t contaminate whatever is below it.

      1. Duh, why have I never thought of this?

        Your post is timely, as DH left the door ajar on our upright freezer, and I’m hoping I caught it on time.

      2. Wow, that is brilliant. I think in my version I’d have one shelf for frozen stock and ice packs, one shelf for flour, one shelf for fruits, one shelf for prepared food (frozen pizzas, meals I have frozen, fish nuggets and the like) and one shelf for everything else. Perhaps I will reorganize tonight.

        In the small freezer we have in the kitchen I have a wire bin for meat products. I had one for fruit but needed more room.

    4. Have you looked at the Container Store or Home Depot/Lowe’s? They usually have good organizational containers for things like this. Just remember to measure before you go and bring a tape measure with you.

    2. Also, props to WHBM for making them all the same price, no matter the general size. So often you see the plus sizes are increased in price..

      1. A WHBM sales associate sneered at me for asking for a size 12 or 14 (after she approached me!) and told me they “might have that… online.” So, they can take their limited online plus sizes and shove it.

  9. Favorite things to do in and around LA? Will have 2 free days there for our anniversary. TIA!

      1. + 1 from someone who grew up there! Also, drinks on the beach at sunset! I always make it a point to watch a sunset on the coast when visiting home. On a clear day, the Getty has lovely outdoor views. In addition to the Korean and Chinese food suggestions, seafood tacos are also a local staple.

    3. A really nice weekend is to stay at a nice hotel in Santa Monica (I like the Georgian) and then drive up to the Getty Villa for the day. Come back and have a nice dinner at one of the many fab West Side restaurants. And the main Getty Museum off the 405 is divine — have lunch at the fancy restaurant on site.

      The new Broad Museum downtown is fantastic and there are great places to eat literally right next door. Also the new play at the Ahmanson just down the block looks to be pretty great although the reviews are not out yet. (I’m going tomorrow night so stay tuned…)

      Universal City Walk is always fun for dining and shopping and movies.

      Venice Beach can’t be beat for people-watching.

    4. This may not be a good anniversary weekend thing, but LA has the best Korean food in the country. If that is of interest, it is one thing you can get the very best of there.

      1. Oh, and Chinese, too, if you’re willing to trek to the San Gabriel Valley!

    5. check out the Broad and the Getty! my two favorite LA museums and both iconically LA in their own separate ways.

  10. Ladies, I’m in crappy funk and can’t seem to shake myself out of it. I’m on anti-depressants, called my doc, working on dosing, etc. but this in between period is crushing me.

    What are your favorite low energy (preferably not too expensive) pick me ups? My brain is zapped and I need to try to get myself out of the spiral.

    1. Getting outside and hanging out with nature. I enjoy exploring new hiking paths, new gardens, anything with waterfalls, etc. I also like to explore small towns. I will get in the car and drive in a direction and stop at anything that looks interesting. Granted, I am in PA where this is easy, so YMMV geographically.

    2. Spicy Indian food? It seems to zap me awake and fog free. [Too much = food coma, so maybe watch portion sizes and naan consumption.]

    3. Getting outside always helps me. If I am in a funk, a 10 minute walk outside can do wonders. It doesn’t have to be strenuous – just get outside.

    4. Treating myself to a new bottle of nail polish in whatever color makes me happy. Buying new nail polish feels indulgent to me and seeing the fun color on my nails for the next few days is a good reminder to try not to stress out too much and try to enjoy the day. Sometimes going to target and telling myself I can buy one thing and it can be whatever I want helps too. This usually ends up being cute socks, a scarf I don’t need but think is cute, new pjs, fun sunglasses, whatever. None of these things are really expensive but something about giving myself permission to just buy whatever looks good can help turn a day around. Hope you feel better soon!

    5. Mani/pedi (doing it myself or at a salon). Put on a face mask and clean out my makeup drawer while it sets. Cleaning out my pantry or freezer (feels good to dump a bunch of stuff in the trash and suddenly have lots of space). Going for a walk in a neighborhood I’ve never walked through before and admiring/ogling/dissing the houses and yards. All of these while listening to a funny, interesting, or engrossing podcast.

    6. Take a 20-minute walk around the block. It’s not too strenuous, and the movement will help with the fogginess somewhat. You also can feel good that you did something good for yourself rather than slipping into habits that aren’t as healthy (though understandable when you’re feeling bad).

      Any activity that stops that negativity spiral in your brain is good. This is the time for a light, fluffy read — nothing that’s going to stress you out, just something that’s fun and entertaining.

      I’m sorry you’re going through this. I’ve been there, too, and that in-between time is so tough because you are READY to feel better.

    7. A mid day (or early AM, or after dinner in the summer) walk in the Sunshine. Even just 10 minutes. The sun exposure is key

      A bike ride.

      A favorite food to look forward to.

      A favorite song.

      A favorite, feel good movie.

      Palming. Cupping both hands, placing over your face and just breathing….. It is oddly relaxing, and was taught to my father as a mid-day stress release at his workplace.

    8. I’ll go against the grain and suggest giving in to the funk, for the time being. Help is coming and you need a break. Could this be a time to not pressure yourself to feel a certain way (upbeat, positive) when your mood isn’t quite there? This has worked for me during some really crushing periods of depression recently.

  11. Are there any meet ups planned in NYC? After many unsuccessful dates, I’d like to expand my group of girlfriends here in NYC.

    5. I’m in New Haven but I’d come down for this. Would love to meet some of you ladies in person.

  12. Does anyone have recommendations for a mostly/all natural, daily moisturizer with SPF? I’m looking for something that feels light, isn’t oily, and isn’t super expensive. I really like my current moisturizer but am trying to switch to more natural products.

      1. Because OP presumably cares about reducing the quantity of irritating, endocrine-disrupting chemicals in her life? It’s not “nonsense” – if you think that, then you don’t know anything about environmental health and toxicity in personal care products.

        OP, I like La Roche Posay Antheliois Mineral SPF sunscreen. It’s a little pricey but it’s worth it and I feel better about products that have to conform to EU standards for safety, which are a LOT stricter than ours. It’s paraben and fragrance-free.

        1. My guess is because there is no agreed upon/regulatory definition of “Natural”. It’s doesn’t mean anything, so marketing can use it however they want.

          And it’s not like natural can’t be bad for you – it’s not inherently better than artificially produced. In fact, the quality is harder to control, yes? Most essential oils (eg. lavender) can be considered skin irritants. Soy-whatever (usually ingested) mimics estrogen in it’s receptors.

          “Natural” (whatever that means) is not inherently better. What’s better is understanding the science and why things work (natural or artificially produced). And remembering that even “natural” things work because of the chemicals they contain.

          1. I think anyone who claims to be confused about what someone means when they ask for natural products is being deliberately obtuse. Obviously the exact word is not clearly defined in the United States, but we all know, in general, what the OP is looking for. We also know intuitively that products with extreme fragrances, lists of ingredients the length of your arm, bizarre fluorescent colors, etc. are not what most people consider “natural.”

          2. Totally agree with grumpy chemist.

            “Natural” means nothing. Many toxic substances are natural. And many synthesized molecules are safe. Many highly educated women I know don’t make correct choices based on their own arbitrary lines and the success of advertising and bloggers…

            The number of people I know who take vitamin E, not realizing large doses are associated with increased risk of cardiac death, for example is not insignificant. But it’s a vitamin! It’s natural…. Nevermind what vitamin E topically can do to the skin for many (also a common irritant).

          3. Anon @ 12:30 – My point is, because it has no legal definition, marketing can use it however they want and there isn’t actually consistent understanding of what different groups of people mean when they use it. I’d say you are the one being obtuse about my point. I’m not talking about the extremes here.

            Does natural mean “safe” to them? Does it mean “better than artificial”? How do you define better? Less likely to cause cancer? Skin irritation? Pollutants? What evidence do you have to support that claim?

            Is there less environmental impact because harvesting and processing from a natural source is less resource intensive than constructing from an artificial source? Maybe. It’s not always a given – what if the natural product is only available from a specific region and has to be transported? What if the natural product is actually the basis of the thing and you distill it down to the underlying chemical compound and then list that on the label because you’ve tested to the fact that your product contains a specific amount of the underlying chemical that you need to do your thing? Is it natural then? Artificial? Horrible because it dares to be precise in it’s chemical listing?

          4. I can officially attest from the marketing side of hygiene product development natural means NOTHING. There is no legal definition, so labeling is not held to any standard. Also, EU and US regulations are different, but EU is definitely not more strict in every sense.
            Just a friendly FYI :)

          5. I think there’s deceptive marketing from both sides, since real chemical difference between a synthetic and “naturally occurring” (or however you want to say it) substance is often elided in an effort to promote the synthetic. Many of us have learned the hard way that e.g., folic acid, Levothyroxine and progestin are not indistinguishable from folate, thyroxine, and progesterone. There also isn’t just one thing called “Vitamin E” out there: supplements can behave differently from food when the vitamins are chemically different from what appears in food. I have no patience at all for the thinking that we should “take red rice yeast instead of statins” because it’s what Gaia would want for us, but the problem of brushing over the distinctions seems far more widespread.

        2. It kind of is. Natural is not equivaent to non-toxic or non-iritating or non-estrogen mimicking. And I work in health and environmental toxicity.

          Personally, I’m wary about micronized zinc, as it crosses into the bloodstream and its been on the market for too short a time point for good safety data.

          1. Question – is the point of micronizing it to minimize the white cast that zinc oxide sunscreen causes?

            Which (if true) means that aesthetic is trumping the functionality?

          2. Yep. Any zinc oxide which is rubs in clear is ground up to nanoparticles. The old fashioned white stuff doesn’t pass through the skin and so the FDA allowed the older epidemiologic data for the newer micronized/nanoparticle stuff

          3. This is a bit concerning to me. My skin reacts badly to sunscreen, so I only use sunblock.

      1. I like the Aveeno Calming (“with active naturals”), though I think it’s only SPF 15.

    3. Zinc Oxide (non-micronized) is about the only sunscreen found in nature. But I stick to the broad spectrum chemical sunscreens in Neutrogena Dry Touch since I like my skin to be skin colored & micronized zinc has been found to pass into the bloodstream. Just a reminder, skin cancer is natural too.

    4. You might want to try a physical sun block instead of chemical, they tend to be a bit more natural, although can show up white in photos.

    5. Other than zinc oxide there are no natural sunscreens (I went off on some snippy salesperson at lush who tried to tell me my face products weren’t natural and that was a concern – I told her melanoma was a bigger concern). I use biore watery essence from Korea. I could never justify the $$$$ for laroche posay as a drugstore girl and the asian sunscreens are all PA++++ which usually isn’t offered in US brands. Asian sunscreens are also designed to go on below makeup.

      I’ve never used it but Pure Block calls itself natural…

    6. I like Mineral Fusion moisturizer with SPF 40. It goes on a bit white but disappears once you spread/rub it into your skin. No scent although I like the scent of the “intense hydration face cream” that has no SPF and i use as my night time moisturizer

      High rating on Environmental Watch Group “EWG” which looks for harmful ingredients in products etc. You could check their ratings for all sorts of products

    7. Thank you for the suggestions, I will look into them! When I used the word “natural” in my original post, I meant products with fewer harmful chemicals. Our lives are full of chemicals that are terrible for us. I’m not a scientist so I don’t appreciate all of the hazards but I’m trying to expose myself to fewer of them. Maybe I should have been more specific, but the hostility and nitpicking here seemed really unnecessary.

      1. I’m sorry for coming off hostile! Speaking as a scientist I think it’s really important ensure that the public has access to evidence based advice and to talk about the difference between toxic and artificial. I suspect grumpy chemist (by username alone) is coming from a similar point of view.

        There’s a community of folks (the food babe and similar) who claim that anything artificial is worse than anything natural. I find this endlessly annoying because these people spread information that is not supported by scientific evidence and occasionally this sort of advice is hazardous.

        Nothing in FDA approved sunscreens is currently known to be hazardous and wearing sunscreen is known to reduce cancer risk. If you’re ever in doubt about what you’re listening to, the cochrane reviews is kind of like consumer reports but for medical advice supported by evidence. cochranelibrary dot com.

      2. Look up Keys Solar Sunblock Moisturizer on Amazon. I’ve been using it for a couple years now and love it. Ingredients as follows: Nano Zinc-Oxide (20%), Shea Butter (10%), Avocado Oil, Carrot Seed Oil, Black Cumin Oil, Essential Oil Blend, Purified Water, Vegetable Glycerin, Vegetable Wax, Rosemary Extract

  13. Any suggestions on professional looking linen pants? My office is business casual and my typical black jeans/pants are getting too hot for the warm weather.

    1. I gave up on linen. Hard to pull off all the wrinkles and look professional, in my opinion.

      Are you an ankle pants with flats/loafers/heels type of person? I have gotten a couple pairs of grey (light grey and gunmetal grey) and navy ankle pants as an alternative to my typical black jeans/pants and they have worked well. I have had good luck with Loft and Express for ankle pants (I am curvy/pear shaped), and I’d recommend Loft Marisa line or Banana Republic if you are straighter shaped.

  14. Law question: do in-house jobs typically require you to be admitted to the bar in the state where they are located, or just admitted somewhere? Browsing job descriptions, a few seem to require in-state admisssion, but that is not what I’ve generally heard from friends. I’m trying to gauge if this is a nice to have, or must have. State is MA, if it matters.

    1. I’ve worked in-house at two companies, and neither required that you be admitted in the state where they are located. A number of my coworkers at both locations were just admitted to the FL bar as authorized house counsel.

    2. If it’s a large multistate or multinational corporation it hardly matters. Sometimes they eventually make you take the state bar of the state in which you sit, but usually not. If it is a position in a smaller geographic area or an industry that heavily deals with state regulations this is more common.

    3. It’s the bar association not the employer you need to worry about. If the job is practing law, you need to be barred, it doesn’t matter if the employer is a company, law firm or govt.

      1. Not true — many states have special rules for in-house attorneys admitted elsewhere.

        1. What part isn’t true? I didn’t say “barred in that state” because it’s not totally clear from OP’s post if she is barred anywhere or not as she doesn’t specifically say that she’s barred. She does need to check with the bar assocation because it depends on the bar assocation not the employer and not all states have different rules for in-house attorneys.

        2. Yeah, I think it’s pretty clear OP understands you have to be barred somewhere to be an attorney. I think sometimes you can assume basic knowledge in this case. That said, you must be barred in the country in which you are working – eventually. Many of the international attorneys working in house are barred in their home country then do an LLM and take a state bar.

        3. Yes, but many of those states still require you to register and be admitted as in-house counsel

    4. I believe MA has an in-house only registration option, which is permitted for attorneys who are registered in another jurisdiction but not MA specifically. If you are going to sign pleadings, etc., obviously you would need to be admitted to the court or seek pro hac admission.
      If it came to it, the MA bar exam is pretty easy to pass as bar exams go.

      1. +1, plus MA has good reciprocity with other states if you have been admitted for > 5 years.

      4. FYI, MA is moving to the UBE this summer for the first time, so Passachusetts is also a thing of the past.

        I know from experience that in CA, you must have taken the CA bar exam (content varies depending on how long you’ve been admitted–if >5 yrs, essays only, if not, whole shebang).

    5. I’m in California, where I’m admitted through the Multi-jurisdictional Practice In House scheme. I can’t go to court and can’t advise anyone outside of my employer, but it works for them. I maintain my admissions in State and State, and do California CLE. I had to pass a moral character screening but no exam to sit through.

  15. I am winding down at my current job and am bored. I have transitioned 90% of my work and am finishing up the remainder of it. I have already sorted and cleaned up my files, prepared a status spreadsheet, packed up my office, blah blah blah.

    Any interesting long-form articles you have read recently that you can share?

    Any interesting (safe for work) internet wormholes I can go down?

    1. Can you start reading up on things that may be helpful for your new job to get a head start?

      1. I could, but I was hoping for something a little more fun than catching up on changes in the FAR/DFARS over the last six months. :)

    2. I just went down a royal wedding wormhole inspired by this thread, if that helps.

    3. I went down a wormhole of youtube makeup videos yesterday, and was amazed at how much makeup people wear/how many products. I mean, this girl was like 20 and I couldn’t keep up with all the products, but also I am intimidated.

    5. The daily email newsletter for women in business, The Broadsheet by Fortune, usually links to some great articles – you can find several days of archives online. There’s also a newsletter focused on diversity, RaceAhead, with good links.

      If you want lighter fare, The Girls Night In email newsletter also links to interesting articles. I can’t tell if their archives are online, but the website looks like it has a lot of interesting content as well.

      Vanity Fair has also had some interesting long-form articles lately that I’ve saved to my Evernote but I haven’t read yet.

      For a wormhole, I’ve been reading back stories on the “villanesses” of the 90s. Tonya Harding, Monica Lewinsky, Marcia Clark, Anita Hill. I was a kid in the 90s but I remember how much they were vilified in the press. It’s interesting to go back and read their stories, and some of the original articles, but with today’s lenses. Horrifying how some of them were treated and we all just accepted it.

  16. Etiquette question for the morning. I’m getting married in the fall and unfortunately just lost a friend to an illness. When save the dates went out, the prognosis was less clear and we invited said friend and her partner (who we like very much but are not as close to). We will obviously still invite friend’s partner to the wedding, but is it appropriate to include a +1? Our rule of thumb is that we are giving +1’s for anyone in a serious relationship or where the friend in question would not know anyone else in attendance. The latter would apply to friend’s partner, but we are wondering if being invited “and guest” would sting particularly hard in this case because it would be such a stark reminder of friend’s absence. There is obviously no great solution here, but wondering if anyone has thoughts?

    Thanks, rettes, for always being full of etiquette wisdom.

    1. Oh gosh, I’m so sorry for you and your friend’s partner. What a loss.

      I’d talk to the partner about it. Say you’d love to still have them at the wedding and would they like to bring anyone with them? It can be a friend or family member. Then address the invitation accordingly, using the friend’s name if possible.

    2. I’d include a +1 but, before the invitation goes out, contact the partner and say something like ‘We hope you’re still able to join us. Please feel free to bring a friend or family member or anyone who you think will bring you joy that day’. Hopefully that will remove any weird pressure to start dating RIGHT NOW. (I’ll say, though, that people react differently to grief and my uncle started dating with 6 months of losing his wife of 40 years. It was a strange for us, but in a way a testament to the comfort he had found with my aunt.)

      1. +1

        I generally don’t think plus ones should be friends or family members, but in this case I think you should encourage your friend to bring anyone they like.

        2. Yeah and maybe a little selfishly, if yours is the first wedding she’s attending following her partner’s passing, you really, really want her to bring someone to support her.

          I had a good friend who lost her husband young… at the age that we had like 10 weddings a year. She had 3 the year her husband died that she insisted on going to. I was her +1 to all of them. She was an emotional wreck at every single one. I swooped her into the bathroom when she started crying (in an obviously-not-happy-tears way), stopped her from drinking too much, prevented her from talking to entire tables of strangers about her husband’s death, and ushered her the heck out of there when necessary.

    3. I would include a +1 and before invites go out, send an email/text/call to let them know that you included a +1 because you didn’t want them to feel like they had to attend alone at an event where they may be missing partner’s presence and where they would not know anyone else. They may have a close friend or family member they would like to bring for support or they may decline the invite but would appreciate the gesture.

    4. I would include the plus one and a handwritten note in the envelope with the invitation. Give a short explanation that you hope to see him, and he’s welcome to bring someone with him. You will not be reminding him of friend’s absence – he’s thinking about that all the time and will be thinking about every single event he has to go to without her anyway. I’m so sorry about the loss of your friend.

    5. True etiquette is about making your guests feel comfortable. I’d call them up and say how much you miss spouse, that they are invited, and ask them if they want a +1.

  17. Hotel suggestions near the Capitol in DC? I’m looking to stay somewhere under $150 a night but that’s proving to be difficult. I’m attending an event at GULC on a weeknight in late June. I would prefer to walk to the event but would be willing to stay anywhere along a metro line if that would help out with the price.

    2. There are a couple of Hyatt Places within a mile or two of the capitol that might work for you.

    6. For my GULC move-ins/graduations/etc, I stayed at both the Washington Court hotel (can often find on discount sites for cheap) and the Hyatt Regency. The Washington Court (at least a few years ago) had some unkind reviews because the hotel was a bit outdated and some carpet was worn, but the rooms were still big and lovely and affordable. The Hyatt’s good, too – just FULL of tourists who can be pretty noisy/unaware.

  18. What treats do you reward yourself with that aren’t food or alcohol?

    I’m trying to break my lazy Friday night takeout-and-bottle-of-wine habit. Preferably with something that won’t break the bank. I’d love to hear about your little indulgences.

    1. Tea and reading on the sofa; a movie (feels more like a treat than just watching TV); a manicure

    2. Honestly, I love to reward myself with food too. I just make sure to keep an eye on the portions. I haven’t found any substitute to be as satisfying. Can you try buying a mini bottle of wine and maybe your favorite appetizer from the take out place to go with a salad you make at home or something like that? If you’re trying to cut down alcohol specifically, why not try sparking water with a little bit of fancy juice or maybe kombucha?

      1. fresh raspberries. I normally only buy them frozen due to price, but I love them and they feel like a treat, which is actually good for you.

      2. +1 I find food rewards very satisfying even if they are healthy-ish. I like to get an expensive fresh cold pressed juice sometimes at this juice bar in a cute area of town, and I walk around an look at the shops. A large juice is like $8 so it feels like a treat. Also one single chocolate from the really fancy chocolate place in town feels very indulgent because I don’t go often.

    4. Do you have a tub large enough for a bubble bath? I don’t anymore, but when I did I found a nice long soak to be a lovely treat.

    5. CVS sells some lovely sheet masks, if you are into skincare. I also like to do small indulgences into my bullet journal hobby (stickers, because I am apparently five).

      1. +1 – i get stickers on the calendar for exercise. I know it’s ridiculous, but it’s satisfying.

    6. If you can work with tea, I like to go to a fancy tea shop and splurge on new and interesting flavors to go with a hot meal but healthy meal. Don’t skimp on the sugar – it’s the least you can do to indulge.

    7. A juicy yoga class or some other nice, sweaty workout.
      Making a nice meal (something a little more complicated than I’d want to do on a weekday).
      Getting a pedicure or some other kind of pampering.
      Catching up on a show I’ve fallen behind on and am excited about.
      Leisurely gardening session.

    8. Bubble bath with candles and a glass (not bottle) of wine.

      Home spa treats – sheet mask, deep conditioning treatment for hair, babyfoot, etc.

      Instead of takeout dinner, bake a fancy dessert (or pick up a fancy cupcake from the good bakery near you).

      I’ve tried to get better at the art of letter-writing, and an hour to craft a letter to a family member or a distant friend feels like a real luxury. Plus I know that I will really brighten the recipient’s day upon arrival.

    9. If I were you, I’d buy a bottle of drunk elephant baby facial and do a 20 min mask every Friday while you sit around in a bathrobe. The baby facial isn’t cheap, but it’s a one time cost that will last you a while. Sheet masks will work here, too. You can also use the time to put thick lotion on your feet and wear fuzzy socks, and sip sparkling water with fresh fruit. It’ll feel like a mini spa day.

      This is what I do when my husband is out of town. :D

    10. Sometimes I’ll take a bath while wearing a sheet mask and listening to a podcast. It’s delightful.

    11. Spa stuff – massage or facial appointment, mani-pedi. Or sephora sheet mask or bath bomb or new rollerball fragrance, colorfull eyeliner for fun.

      Fancy work out gear – it was a big shift when I rewarded myself with yoga class and cute activewear instead of cheeseburgers, I get more energy and sustained goodness out of it compared to the momentary high of fatty but delicious food or alcohol. Also, the cute stuff motivates me to work out.

      Take myself out on a date – for me that’s sashimi +sushi and fancy tea, people watch while I dine alone or at the bar.

      Do something I’ve been putting off that results in something that feels good – take a bunch of stuff to the tailor to get the fit perfect, tell myself I deserve things that fit perfectly. It feels like a to-do list item but it feels so good once I’ve dropped it off and know I’ll get it all back and it’ll fit just right – for me this includes getting leggings and jeans hemmed, dresses altered for perfect shoulder and waist fit, etc. Take all my stuff to the cleaners, do a big bleachy water soak of all my dingy whites for summer, etc.

    12. I get massages. I usually get the cheap, reflexology-style ones, usually in my area this is about $15 for a 15 minute massage, $25 for 30 minutes, etc. Check around on Yelp for reviews and I’m sure you’ll find something.

      Something else I do to treat myself without overindulging in something is to visit a cat cafe (I love animals but my building doesn’t allow them) or take a friend’s dog for a walk.

    13. A new book (a new cookbook, a new picture book, a new reference book etc) is hugely satisfying.

  19. I applied and interviewed for a Fed atty position. They just asked for references.
    1) Do you all know what this means in terms of prospects?
    2) Send good vibes?

  20. Massages and facials. It is impossible to drink or eat while doing either. These can be expensive, but every nearby mall in my area has a walk-in chair/table massage place where massages cost about a third of what they do in a salon.

  21. Neither of the Federal Agencies I have worked for would check references for someone they didn’t intend to make an offer to. Anything can make an appointment go pear shaped but I’d feel good about it. Certainly I wish you food vibes in any case…especially if you are coming to my agency!

  22. I have always been a flipflops kind of girl, but I am now in my 30s and have given birth on multiple occasions and am finding that my Havaianas are causing a lot of soreness at my inner ankle/side of heel, just below the ankle bone. (Dr. Goo gle tells me this may be posterior tibial tendonitis.) I think it is time to shift to a less cool, more supportive type of sandal (ideally still a slip-on). Any recommendations?

    1. I switched from flops to Eurosoft strappy sandels. Easier to run around with my kids and ups my style game while offering support.

    3. Clark’s Breeze Sea flip flops — slightly dorky, but oh so comfortable. I also wear Havaianas but only inside the house now, while I can actually walk for some length of time in my Clarks.

      2. Same. And I see fashionable women wearing them in NYC all the time, so they’re pretty “cool.”

    6. Vionic Tide flip flops have great arch support and don’t look horrid. Mine are so comfy I wear them inside, around the house!

    8. OOFOS original (flip flop style) sandals in the house. Chacos everywhere else (the flips – which actually have arch support – are my favorite, though friends love the multi-strap ones).

  23. Personal Finance question – you ladies always mention that you need to have an emergency fund of about 6 number of months of living expenses, in cash. I don’t have this in cash, but I have about 3 years worth of living expenses in stocks (thanks to a generous grandparent who bought stocks in my name from the time I was born and on each birthday, with dividends automatically reinvesting to buy more stock).

    These stocks are not in a 401(k), IRA or any other retirement account, they’re just in an investment account. I also have a priority credit line set up against this account so that I could borrow against the stock if necessary. (it’s similar to a home equity line in that way)

    I have a savings account with maybe two months worth of living expenses that I continuously fund each paycheck, but this is more for things like “The A/C broke and now i need $5000 to replace it”. I also use this for funding vacation or other big purchases that aren’t an emergency. So, while I add money to it on a regular basis, I also take money out of it on a regular basis.

    What is the purpose of having so much cash sitting there not making money for you in the market?

    1. I am the same as you. You can sell most stocks quickly if needed. This sounds totally totally fine. Some people are just really conservative.

      1. For my job, I can’t just sell stocks b/c of insider trading concerns if the stock is in a client or target. It took years to get approval to sell $2K of stock once. Never again. Mutual funds for me are liquid and a bit more diversified. Stocks are not.

      2. I also have some blue chip type stock investments that I’ve held for decades now and reinvested the dividends. It’s liquid enough that I could get to in the case of emergencies, provides a decent return, and is fairly stable. If I end up using it for an emergency fund at some point, that’s fine or it stays around for retirement. I think there are a lot of ways to hold the emergency fund.

    2. It’s for an emergency. The stock market is not as safe or reliable as a savings account.

      1. +1 The likely scenario if I lose my job, the stock market isn’t going to be doing so hot either. I play it conservative with money that I don’t want to lose. Anything in the stock market is likely to increase over the long term, but there are no guarentees as to it’s value at a particular point in time. If it’s in a savings account, I know $100 is going to stay a $100. No reward, but no risk.

        I also don’t feel compelled to optimize what all my dollars are doing for me. In this instance, I’m happy to have my savings just sit there. I’ll invest with money I can afford to lose.

    3. If it’s liquid *enough* that you could use it for living expenses if you suddenly lost your job, that sounds fine to me. But I would separate the vacation fund and the A/C emergency fund–what if you get back from vacation and discover that your A/C is broken?

      1. *liquid enough and guaranteed not to crash—what if you lose your job in a depression? That’s the point of having it in cash.

    4. Well, one draw back is that you have to pay capital gains taxes on stocks when you sell them. Especially on the stocks that she bought when you were a kid and probably have a low cost basis. So if you’re in a crunch and have lost your job and sell things at a huge gain, you’ll have to keep part of that money aside to pay taxes. I mean, with that much money you’re probably fine. But it’s just something to be aware of.

      1. yup the only way to avoid the capital gains taxes is to die and your heir gets the stepped up basis. I have some elderly relatives who would literally rather die than pay $250K in cap gains taxes.

    5. Because what if the market is way down when suddenly you need the money. That’s why. Emergency savings are for an emergency, your stock investments are for the long haul.

    6. I don’t keep 6 months expenses cash, but I have enough taxable to have an emergency plan and not just a single emergency fund. There is always at least 1 months expenses in my credit union MM account, sometimes more if I have extra slush money. Then a large amount of credit card that I never use, but could for float while accounts settled. Taxable investments in municipal bond index funds and in stocks with multiple years of expenses.

  24. I love the look of a light caftan-dress – similar to those by Black Crane. Does anyone know of good, less expensive options to try before I take the plunge on a nice one? Thanks!

  25. There was a great rec on this site for a basic nice white T shirt to wear every day on weekends etc… It is the GAP modern fit T. I ordered one and love it. So soft, love the closer fit (which I hadn’t expected) with a v-neck that is not too low.

    So I went back to buy more, since it was 50% off yesterday, and it’s all sold out in most sizes!!! Crazy, so early in the season. Ugh….

    Any other suggestions for basic white T that is similar? I’m small/XS on top. No crew necks, no deep v-necks, casual is fine but also open to nicer quality with interesting necklines (ex. ballet).

    1. they often restock, so I’d check back! (also, people return stuff). also, I think sometimes they take things down and then list them again, to create the illusion of demand (this may be conspiracy thinking, though…)

    3. Try Target, the “A New Day” line has some good ones. Soft and not see-through. I went for the crew neck but I think they have v-necks too.

  27. I was the one who said we could chat on email! Here is the account I made:

    dclifeanon123 AT gmail DOT com

    Looking forward to it :)

  28. Perfect! Does anyone have an anonymous email account they can share in the comments? If not, I’ll create one tonight.

  29. Is it a waste of time to go on interviews your ambivalent about? 2nd year lawyer, generally happy at my firm but casually looking to see what else is out there. Accepted 2 interviews this week at firms I probably wouldn’t leave my firm for under the reasoning of “you never know”

    1. I have an interview this week and I’m wondering the same thing. Leaving would put the company in a really bad spot…I’m not even sure if I want another job….I don’t know what to do. Knowing me, I won’t do as well at the interview since I don’t feel motivated.

      I already told my office I would be out that afternoon, and now I’m thinking it would be really nice to just go home early instead of going to the interview, haha.

      1. “Leaving would put the company in a really bad spot”… oof, that’s never a reason to stay! They would drop you like a hot potato if things turned south and they needed to, and the fact that you leaving would put them in a bad spot means their business is precarious and/or not well-organized. You should be your number one!

    2. The last time I felt this way I ended up accepting the job and I’m very happy. I think my more relaxed attitude toward the interview might’ve actually helped me. Every time I think I’m interviewing for my dream job I psyche myself out and then I’m a nervous mess.

      1. +1 this is me exactly. The fewer f’s I give, the better I perform in interviews.

    3. You can’t know what’s out there if you don’t go to the interviews. View them as YOU interviewing the company. What kind of info do you want to know? Find out hours, salary and bonus, benefits, work life balance, turnover, how the role is structured, career advancement, etc. All of that will be helpful in clarifying what you want in a role, what’s important to you, what kind of trade offs you’d be willing to make. It’ll also help tell you if your “dream” expectations are fantasy or standard.

    4. As someone who interviews candidates on a semi-regular basis, I’d be annoyed if I had any inkling you were taking up my otherwise billable time for a ‘eh, maybe.” Also, if you’re in a small legal community and want to lateral a few years later, this could backfire since it’ll seem like you’re stringing people along now.

      1. eh, I think the idea that you’d interview me as an “eh, maybe” but expect me to only interview if I am sure I’m interested in the position is a bit unfair… likely they are interviewing multiple candidates, its totally fair for you to be considering lots of options (one of which is staying put!)

        I have no problem exploring opportunities even if I’m not sure I’m into them. You never know where they might lead..

  30. I applied to the fed govt last year, and they asked for my references only after essentially telling me on the phone that I had gotten the job (subject to those references, background check, etc) – I think you’re in a good spot! In my experience, they didn’t want to put anything in writing until it was final.

    Heads up though, it took 3 months after they asked for references to get anything close to an offer in writing from HR

  32. This was supposed to be in response to the request for professional linen pants above!

  33. I have this one knit shirt and skirt set (same knit marled material) that looks so put together, yet very comfortable to wear on long days at the office. Sadly it’s getting worn out.

    Has any one seen anything similar? I;ve checked Ann Taylor but there’s only a striped option and well the website is getting annoying.

    Any recs would get an Internet Hug!

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