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- Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; up to 50% off everything else
- J.Crew – Up to 50% off wear-to-work styles; extra 30% off sale styles
- J.Crew Factory – 40-60% off everything; extra 60% off clearance
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- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – BOGO 50% everything, includes markdowns
- White House Black Market – 30% off new arrivals
Some of our latest posts here at Corporette…
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And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
AIMS
I love brown leather, and black & gray clothing/accessories together.
Cute dress. Like the back zipper — interesting without being too much. Nice pick!
Luggage ID
Did anyone watch The Big Bang Theory last night? Penny had some really cute pink hard-sided luggage. She had a roller suitcase and a smaller handheld piece that was also hard-sided. I would love to find the same set in black but have not been able to identify it. I looked at the Tumi and Samsonite websites and did a Google search, but couldn’t figure it out. If you didn’t notice the luggage, you can see it at about the 8:00 mark on the video available on CBS’s website. Does anyone know what brand it was?
AIMS
Delsey makes really cute hard luggage. Check them?
Luggage ID
Thanks for the suggestion. They have some great pieces, but this particular set wasn’t there. I did find a new briefcase-like bag that I want now though!
COS
I saw that and loved the luggage also! Super cute!
anon
Afraid I don’t know. I really love hard luggage. Just often not the best in terms of weight restrictions when flying these days. Sigh.
Digby
Is this it? http://www.uberapparatus.com/titan-x2-flash-beauty-case-trolley/ It looks pretty close.
Jen L
It is (or very close)! Thank you! Apparently I have expensive taste.
Anonymous
I’ve seen some very nice, colorful hard luggage at Brookstone, in the airport.
Ma'am
How do you get people to stop calling you ma’am? I just started a new job in a law firm in the South, and the couriers always call me ma’am, even though we are about the same age. I am in my 20s (and I THINK I look like I’m still in my 20s…). I laughed the first day and told one of them that ma’am is my grandma, but he keeps calling me that. I know it’s a way to show respect, but it makes me feel awkward and old fashioned. But, I don’t want to be all weird about it.
Maybe this is something I need to let go? What say you, commentariat?
FWIW, I *think* they call the men attorneys “sir.”
CW
I would let it go. I think it would be more awkward to try to force them to stop calling you ma’am!
North Shore
It’s actually pretty common. My husband is in the military, and they use ma’am as the female equivalent of sir. It has nothing to do with age. I’d just live with it, if I were you.
AL
You’re in the south. Learn to live with it. Especially if you’re in the deep south.
Growing up in the south, everyone was a ma’am or sir; yes ma’am, no ma’am; yes sir, no sir. Didn’t matter the age of the person you’re addressing. Even today, now that I live and work in political, stodgy DC, I still use the ma’am and sir. It’s a habit.
Coach Laura
Habits are hard to break. I was raised in the South and still call bosses (and people who are of an older generation than I) “Sir” and “Ma’am” … and I’m over 40.
pjbhawaii
I’d shoot myself before I ever called my boss “sir.” And he would roll on the floor laughing or else accuse me of slanderous sarcasm.
But I work with the military a lot, and am always called ma’am, and moreover, called Ms. Last Name and never by my first name, even though I introduce myself using first and last names.
KM
This!
academicsocialite
Just go with it. In Brooklyn, I get everything from sweetie to dear to “mami” (on a good day?). When I first moved here, it drove me crazy, but now I just take it as part of being in this diverse community, where respect can mean different things to different people.
And I have to say, as a 3o year old married lady, I got a kick out of the “miss” from my Apple genius bar guy this morning. This, right before my obgyn asked at my annual visit about my plans for kids. Really spun my head around!
OJ
You should just live with it – and maybe think about why it bothers you so much. They mean it as a term of courtesy and respect. At best when you try to get them to quit it, you appear like you aren’t reading the cultural norms. At worst, you sound like YOU don’t think you are worthy of courtesy and respect. “Oh really no…. I’m not actually a grown-up…” is the message you may be sending – especially with the reference to your grandma, which invites people to see you as someone’s grandchild. Carried to a extreme, I think this might be the equivalent of someone who can never simply say “Thank you” when their work is complimented but must instead minimize their contribution and give credit to everyone, including the office night crew.
KateL
+1 for let it go. I grew up in the military and started getting ma’am at 15. I kept looking for my mother. :-)
FWIW this Yankee will take ma’am and sir over Miss “First Name” or Mr “First Name” – another Southern thing.
Anonymous
We got paddled in Bama if we neglected to append a sir or ma’am (in the hall, by the gym teacher, per annual prior approval by parental form, as for many other petty childhood crimes). It’s conditioned, literally.
And it really is meant sweetly and respectfully. Some groups of people fought hard to be included in the respected norm and to receive that address, due all adults. (Recall the horrible past tradition of calling some adult men ‘boy’ to conciously and unconciously, systematically disinclude them from the respected norm.) Ma’am means you are a lady, and you are. Looked up to, addressed with stand-up formality. In fact, it’s related to gentlemen standing up when ladies come and go and other vanished sweetnesses. Archaic, but genuine. You deserve that respect. We all do. Own it.
Less culturally-specific, there’s a divine Mary Tyler Moore ep called ‘Today I am a Ma’am.’ Cute!
Ma'am
My brain knows this, but I think I am just feeling sensitive about getting older and starting my career and all of these things that are happening to indicate that I am a grown up.
I also got in trouble if I didn’t say “ma’am” or “sir” when I was a kid. My aunt would refuse to continue the conversation and would say, “I’m not a yes” if you forgot to say “yes ma’am.” So, good point about the habit. I do use ma’am and sir a lot, but I really try to only say it to people a generation or more older than I am.
So, I guess I really am the pot saying “hi, sir” to the kettle.
Just lots of weird emotions this week associated with growing up.
Anonymous
At least, as a grown up, you get to wear the fabulous clothes featured on here! =)
Anonymous
So less of a Southern/surface thing and more of a personal/feelings thing. We’ve all been there. I actually think trying on the Southern/gender/courtly meaning of the word is a healthy, happy way for all of us everywhere to get used to the broader, universal, demographic idea of growing and evolving gracefully. This could be a gift.
The MTM ep is synopsed below by an IMDB user. Why not watch and think and decide to enjoy your womanhood :) while enjoying that in the South, ma’am is applied to young girls and women of all ladylike ages. A fig leaf to wear prettily while you try on the bigger meanings of adulthood that are frightening you (and so many of us.)
It really is good to be a woman. In the 90s we leaned to say ‘girl’ and ‘chick’ and even ‘boy’ and ‘grown-up’ to be self-conciously adorably empoweredly youthful. Wrong-o… why not intentionally try to use and accpet and apprecitae the graceful words and feelings of womanly adulthood?
*
Storyline
Mary is starting to feel old when she learns at work that at age thirty she is no longer in the young adult demographic, and when a young twenty-something messenger calls her “ma’am”, the first time ever she’s ever been referred to as such. Mary and Rhoda commiserate about being old and being single and what they should do to progress into married status. Rhoda suggests they each contact someone from their past with whom to connect or reconnect in a relationship-minded pursuit. Rhoda’s unconventional choice, Armond Lynton, is a man she just met when she ran over him with her car. On Phyllis’ recommendation, Mary’s choice is Howard Arnell, a man she dated four years earlier, and who she hasn’t thought about in years. Mary and Rhoda decide they will have an after dinner drinks party at Mary’s place for the four of them. When Rhoda calls Armond, who accepts the invitation, she knows he won’t be the future “Mr… Written by Huggo
J
Here’s the thing: I think the alternative here is for them to call you “Miss” and frankly, I think that’s a LOT worse — especially in a professional setting. If your options are being a grown-up and commanding respect, or being a child, it seems like the choice is pretty clear.
cbackson
I grew up in GA, and this comment really strikes a chord for me. I’ll add that I have a lifelong habit of responding “sir?” or “ma’am?” if someone says something to me that I don’t quite hear, which is something I’ve never heard outside the south. Should also add that I still, under some circumstances, address my parents as “sir” and “ma’am.”
kz
I’m also from Georgia. My mother still scolds me if I don’t respond “yes, m’am” or “no, m’am.”
Jill
In the “sad, but true” category: When I was in third grade, a new family moved from the South to my neighborhood in Pennsylvania. The mom visited our house one afternoon, distraught because her elementary-school-age kids had been reprimanded in the principal’s office for addressing their teachers as “Sir” and “Ma’am.” The teachers thought they were being smart alecks.
I’ve lived in the South since college, and ma’am and sir are still used widely to show respect, regardless of age. I really appreciate Southern mannerisms, old-fashioned or no, and I believe this form of old-fashioned courtesy helps make our area of the country a nice place to practice law.
Now that I’m over 40, I sometimes wince (internally) when I’m called ma’am, but I always smile and let it go. No sense taking offense when none is intended. And, as the other posters have said, making an issue of it would be awkward and alienating.
CFM
I worked with the military before, and I am ma’am to everyone, from men younger than me to men older and much more important to me. If its someone’s habit its not going to change, and if you mention it, they are just going to feel self conscious about it when it slips out at somepoint. Think of it like if a waitress asked you to please stop saying thankyou when they brought you something since it is there job. You’d feel a little embarrassed right? Just learn to live with it.
Anonymous
Like the poor military officer addressing a congresswoman– both parties had good manners and intentions, just different understandings of manners… he addressed her as ‘ma’am’, the military/old-fashioned respectful equiv. of ‘sir’… she took it to be condescending (less than ‘congresswoman/senator because it was gendered and she assumed he thought ladies less than gentlemen, rather than exactly the same as ‘sir’, implying the opposite: respectful gender parity) and embarrassed them both.
Sigh! We all do our best to be kind and graceful in addressing and accepting addresses.
CFM
Oh that is too bad. I worked for a civilian woman but very high up, you should have seen how many maams she got in a sentence. Big militiary admired her so much I think she once got a double maam haha.
Anonymous
Those who don’t appreciate her now tease that situation by calling her ‘Senator Ma’am.’
From the Boston Globe:
During a hearing last June, Boxer interrupted Brigadier General Michael Walsh of the Army Corps of Engineers in mid-sentence: “Do me a favor?’’ she said. “Could you say ‘senator’ instead of ‘ma’am?’ It’s just a thing. I worked so hard to get that title, so I’d appreciate it. Yes, thank you.’’
“A member of the military calling somebody ma’am or sir certainly isn’t something that’s unusual,’’ Soderlund said. “Most people who see the video recognize that and recognize the level of arrogance that Senator Boxer brought to the situation.’’
govvie girl
Happen to agree with Soderlund. Boxer just made herself look bad, to put it mildly. In a senator’s case, it’s definitely not a case of naivete to be offended by a military “ma’am.” Unless just elected off of a turnip truck, a senator knows it’s an address of respect from a military member, not a sign of “Gawd, you’re OLD!” See “Rep. Giffords” for non-arrogant political behavior.
Samantha
Any Battlestar Galactica fans here? Among the military personnel in the show, both men and women are addressed as ‘Sir’. I appreciate this because ‘Ma’am’ to me does not have the same ring of authority as ‘Sir’. In a hierarchical environment, it doesn’t make sense to me to differentiate between the genders of the people in command (only title/rank should matter).
Anonymous’ point about the congresswoman being offended by the gendered ‘ma’am’ reminded me of this.
D
Ha! I was just about to post about Battlestar. I love when they call President Roslin “sir.”
Anonymous
Huge BSG fan here. I’m not sure I share your view regarding calling women “Sir” (if only title/rank matter, why not just said “Admiral?) but I think it’s consistent with some branches of the U.S. military. Can anyone confirm?
govvie girl
I’m a military officer and, no, it does not bug me. I call higher ranking females “ma’am,” and it doesn’t bug them, either. “Ma’am” actually does have the same ring of authority in military circles, but that is not often portrayed in media. But that industry also tends to portray many co-equal military and law enforcement male and female unit colleagues hooking up, which is infrequent in officer circles-in the AF- and highly discouraged. Cute guy in the other unit? No problem…. I don’t work w/him :)
j
i relocated from the northeast to the south. i found it really weird too but i have learned there is no stopping it- these boys were raised this way! Better than the alternatives, really. And I have grown to enjoy having doors opened for me and getting on and off every elevator first :) (it is a kick in the pants when i go back to ny/nj though…)
JessC
God love Southern boys and their good Southern mothers for raising them that way. ;)
Samantha
Agree on enjoying having doors opened – with one caveat.
I like people not to hold the door open for me to get in a cab! :)
Usually, I’m wearing a skirt, and ‘scooching over’ hurriedly to let the other person get in after me is a possible wardrobe malfunction waiting to happen for me! If we’re getting in a cab, my husband gets in first – I’m happy to hold the door open for him!
I don’t know if many people know this, but apparently the etiquette is that men hold the door open for regular doors, but for revolving doors the man goes first, so that he does most of the pushing! Was told to me by a well-brought up colleague in my previous job!
Lola
Couldn’t he still do the pushing if he were behind you in a revolving door?
Ma'am
I also like having people hold doors open for me, even if it’s just so the door doesn’t slam in my face. I always try to hold for the people behind me, too.
I agree with your cab comment, but I also don’t like it when men feel like they have to be chivalrous and we’re walking in an atypical formation, and the man rushes up and cuts me off to open the door and I have to walk under his armpit. This happens mostly with younger men associates when older partners are around, trying to show they have manners, I suppose.
Anon L
I’m a Cali girl, but I still call older people sir or ma’am, particularly if I am unfamiliar with them.
Hel-lo
One of my college boyfriends was from the deep south. He called everyone “ma’am,” including his younger sisters, who were in middle school.
If you’re in a law firm, and still look like you’re in your 20s, please remember that it’s not meant as an insult. It’s also not meant as an indication that you’re older. But even if it were – it’s not a bad thing if your professional contacts to think you’re older than you really are.
I agree with the other poster that it’s similar to when you thank a waitress for bringing you food. It’s just the polite thing to do.
S. Laurel West
Roll with it. Its the south. I grew up like that and still call people ma’am and sir and Mr. Tom, Miss Jenny, etc. Old habits are die hard to break.
Ma’am said as a sign of respect I am okay with.
It is when it is said with that tone of voice that says the person really wants to call you B*, that I object to.
7
I agree to just let it go. But I’m astounded by the people here who agree to let it go, but gosh darn, I think not correcting someone as to Mr. or Ms. or Miss makes me ridiculous.
All this stuff you need to just let go ladies. It harms no one. it’s not offensive. It is just the life. If it annoys you, get over it.
Anne
Well, yes. Being called “Ma’am” doesn’t offend me, but I’d rather skip Mister!
Michelle
this is a Southern thing; it is good manners in the South.
An
A colleague from the deep south addresses us all ( regardless of nationality) as ma’am or sir. I think it’s part of her now and as natural as breathing . Very unexpected but very sweet.
Aimez-Moi
There are worse things to be called then ma-am. I was called sir the other day at the supermarket (and I’m clearly a female).
CW
I’m traveling for work (2-3 days) – suits necessary – and was wondering if anyone had any suggestions for packing.
I’m always self-conscious about checking a bag when traveling with colleagues, but am not sure how to fit everything into a carry-on. Any suggestions?
Anonymous
2-3 days is easy to fit into a carry-on: one suit with a skirt and slacks (3 pieces in total: jacket—which you can wear on the plane—pants (also wear traveling) and skirt), a couple tops, one set of casual clothes, pjs, and travel toileteries. This should all fit in a 20 or 21 inch rolling carry-on.
Anonymous
or, you can wear your casual clothes and pack all 3 suit pieces. One pair of casual shoes and one pair of dress shoes is all you need (and you’ll be wearing one)
AD
I’d try hard not to be the one that colleagues are waiting for at the checked-bag carousel. (I have to admit to having been strangely complemented when one of my co-workers who was taking a new role that required some travel told me that our VP described me as a “good traveler” and recommended that she talk to me.) Two/three days for work, even with suits necessary, shouldn’t be too difficult. For a trip of that length, I’d generally also be packing workout clothes and running shoes and I’ve never had a problem.
Definitely try to mix and match, wear the bulkiest thing on the plane, limit footwear. If you are also carrying a laptop case then you’re limited to a very small handbag. If not, I’d bring a large but lightweight collapsible tote – great for carrying assorted items you might want to access on a long flight, lightweight but bulky items (sometimes my running shoes end up there), handbag, and of course the 1-quart toiletries.
Ann
I recently went on a business trip with my boss and a colleague who hadn’t wanted “deal with” the 3-1-1 rule for liquids, and checked her (carry-on size) suitcase as a result. When we got to our destination, there was some problem with getting the luggage off our plane, and we waited for an hour in baggage claim with my colleague for her suitcase. My boss and I had carried on everything, and so would have been ready to walk out of the airport and get a cab, if not for this. We had to go straight from the airport to a meeting and were almost late because of waiting for my colleague’s bag, which she could have easily carried on if she hadn’t insisted she “needed” to bring a full-size bottle of shampoo for a three-day trip. At one point she said “we can call and let them know we’ll be late” and my boss said “no, in 10 minutes, if the bag’s not here, we’ll leave you to wait for your bag, Ann and I will go to the meeting, and you can take a cab to the hotel.” She meant it, too. :) So that is an example of a “bad traveler.” Don’t be the bad traveler!
RoadWarriorette
PP has said it all. It is super easy to pack for 3 days in a carry on. Make sure your blouses are different and no one will wonder if you’re wearing the same suit.
Kat made a great video to help with suit packing, so check it out if you have a few minutes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFRg0neuql4
L from Oz
I’m guessing most of you don’t have to fly Ryanair for business trips…(my local hub also weighs your hand luggage, plus you can only have one piece – I’ve even been asked to put my wallet and bottle of water I was currently drinking from into my one bag!) No chance of getting multiple suit pieces plus a laptop plus a collapsible handbag (for when I get there) into something the right size at under 10kg, alas.
It was total bliss flying KLM recently, when I *could* go with hand luggage only!
halla
It is possible, if also a huge pain. I spent two weeks traveling and had to take a Ryanair trip in the middle. I somehow managed to squeeze everything, including a laptop, some board games, and a real handbag, into one bag that fit their restrictions. It was difficult but just barely possible. I say this only to give you hope for next time :)
L from Oz
Wow! Impressive! I have another trip with them in March and I’ll try it – my biggest problem is usually not the space, but the weight…my last attempt ended in having to check a bag at the airport (not a cheap situation), because my hand luggage weighed 10.5kg. However, I’ve heard that my local hub now only weighs luggage that *looks* too heavy, so I’ll have to see how much I can shove in my tiniest case!
(I’m flying back from London Stanstead, which is much easier, because they are extremely picky about the weight of checked baggage, but don’t weigh hand luggage if it’s the right size.)
E
Hee, I was just thinking about Ryanair! I fly it a LOT in my job. Happily, though,at my level trips of less than 5 days are quite unusual, so there’s no question of being expected to fit everything into one bag and coat pockets. Everybody checks their luggage.
L from Oz
Oh, the-Ryanair-and-stuffing-coat-pockets situation. Memories. I remember one worst-case scenario when I tightened the velcro strap around my coat wrists and even stuffed the sleeves!
At least you can now book 20k of checked luggage with them – it costs more, but it’s cheaper than paying excess luggage. (I often have to travel with lots of paperwork, and that gets heavy.)
N
For this, I’m grateful for my company’s travel regulations that have us chiefly travel with company similar to KLM in regulations to luggage. Nobody bats an eye when you show up with a laptop bag + carry on luggage.
Bonnie
I like the packing envelopes. They keep things organized and let you fit more in. Id recommend bringing a 3 piece suit and a couple shirts. Bring an extra in case of spills and try to bring tops you can wear during the day and out with means.
Michelle
just want to add, if you are traveling internationally, the carryon size restrictions are tougher than domestic so your standard roller carryon may well not be accepted even if it would fit – I have had the experience of being allowed to carry a bag on heading to Europe that was not allowed as a carryon on the exact same plane back home.
MelD
Yes- some airlines (I believe Virgin) have 10kg restrictions on carry-ons, so you can’t really fit that much in them even if the size is allowable.
Ann
There are good videos out there about how to pack for a business trip – the method where you lay everything flat in the carry-on and then fold ends/sleeves/legs in at the end works best for me. Limiting shoes really does seem to be the key. I have heard you should have no more than 3 pairs at the absolute maximum and that includes the pair you wear on the airplane – I wear my business shoes on the plane, then pack either an alternate pair of business shoes or a dressier pair of pumps (if I have an evening event planned), and then my athletic shoes. I also always take sleepwear that can double as workout wear and vice-versa, wearing it as sleepwear before using it as gym-wear obviously. :)
What kind of luggage you have makes a huge difference. I used to think I had trouble doing carry-on only for trips because I was overpacking. Actually, the trouble was my carry-on – a really old Tumi rollaboard we had inherited from my FIL back in 2001, I have no idea how long he’d had it before that. It was small and heavy and had limited packable space on the inside. We just recently bought some new Heys ultralight luggage and because of the better way luggage is designed now, I had no problem fitting three days worth of clothes/supplies into a 21-inch rollaboard. So if you have old luggage, consider upgrading – the cost of the new luggage will most likely be offset considerably in saved luggage check/overweight baggage fees. Luggage design really has changed a lot over the past few years and the new stuff is worlds better-designed than older luggage.
One thing I always do is pack a small fabric handbag into my carryon luggage so I can use it once I get to my destination. I don’t know why this is difficult for some folks I fly with to understand, but the rules say one carryon + one personal item. Rollaboard + laptop briefcase + purse is three items, and I’ve been on two flights lately where boarding was delayed because women trying to carry three items onto the plane argued with the flight crew insisting they check their rollaboard if they wanted to keep their other two items. If you pack a small handbag, then when you get to the hotel you can transfer your necessary items into it so you’re not having to carry your laptop (or at least your laptop bag) everywhere. Alternatively, you can pack the small purse ahead of time and put it into your laptop bag full, and then pull things in and out of it as needed, but I find that to be harder to manage sometimes.
One other tip – it’s worth it to buy a TSA-approved heavyweight quart bag for liquid/gel items rather than relying on Ziplocs – most travel sites have these, that are thicker plastic and have a heavier closure than a Ziplock. Some of them even come with small bottles that you can fill with your own products (personally, I save the sample packets I get from Sephora orders – or even order packets off eBay for some things – and travel with those, as they’re always below the volume limit and you generally don’t need tons of products for a 3-day trip). I have had the Ziplocs break, either pulling them out to put on the conveyer belt or puttting them back in post-security, more than once. It’s a mess and also a delay you don’t need.
And if you’re in need of a new laptop bag – they have many now where you can unzip the laptop compartment and put the bag flat on the belt rather than having to pull the laptop completely out of the bag and then put it back in. Saves a lot of time – rather than having to stuff the laptop back in your bag, you can just rezip/clip the bag back together and go – and it saves wear and tear on the laptop IMO.
rebecca
So I have an interview on Monday, and the woman who’s going to be interviewing me specifically said that they’re a business casual office, and that I shouldn’t “feel obligated to wear a suit.”
Out of curiosity, how common is this? The interview is with a non-profit in DC, for what it’s worth. I’ve done a lot of interviews with other area non-profits, most of which have been business casual, but no one’s ever told me that before. I wish they would though – I think I’ll feel a lot more comfortable in my “normal” work clothes (my current office is a step or two above business casual).
(Speaking of which … I’m assuming “a step or two above business casual” is what I should be wearing? Something like a nice top with a solid skirt of a conservative length? Are boots OK? It’s cold here …)
Anonymous
I would wear a suit anyway, but it doesn’t have to be your most boring, conservative interview suit. One of your funner suits would show your personality and fit in more, but would still show that your taking the interview very seriously.
AL
In my opinion, it doesn’t matter if it’s a business casual office. You’re going on a interview, wear the suit. Once you get the job, then you can wear business casual.
FWIW, I live and work in DC, so I understand what you’re talking about. My current office is business casual but I wore the suit for the interviews.
academicsocialite
What kind of non-profit is it? If it’s more “creative” then I would say pair a blazer with a dress/nice trousers/shirt and jujjing (or however that is spelled) it up with a great necklace and boots would be great. If it’s in social service or international development, I might still go with something more traditional, even if not a suit. I work in a VERY casual (sometimes too casual, ripped cutoffs and men in sandals – yikes) arts non-profit, but I think dressing far above the workplace culture still holds when it comes to interviews. Though I guess it’s as important to listen to what the interviewer is telling you as you prep your outfit.
Lola
It sounds like she’s trying to tell you not to wear a suit. I’d still wear a nicer jacket, though. You can probably take your pick as to pair that with either dress pants or a skirt. I would aim for professional dress, one step lower than a suit, even if they are generally more casual than that in the office on a normal day.
Laura
I agree. If she went to the trouble of telling you that you shouldn’t feel obligated to wear a suit, I would pay attention to that.
Anonymous
The people in my office wear flip flops and t-shirts to work. Those who interview wear suits. The interns and new hires who continue to wear suits do not really impress because it looks silly.
JL
Has anyone had success with an at home hair color? I just want to brighten or add warmth to my medium brown hair. I am not really looking for a real color change. I used to have hair colored at Frederic Fekkai, but I don’t want to invest the time or money to have it done there every 6 to 8 weeks. My situation has changed since I used to color it there. I now have an infant and a lower salary.
If you have had good luck with home coloring, which product did you use? Any other advice?
Jen L
I am currently using Garnier Herbashine. It is a 10 minute color that is semi-permanent and washes out in 28 washes. I’ve used it to take my dark blonde hair to a chocolatey brown color.
FWIW, I have found it easier to go darker with at home color than it is to go lighter. It is really easy for hair to turn brassy when going lighter.
Jen L
Sorry I got pulled away and I realized that this was not the most helpful answer.
I’ve alternated getting my hair colored at a salon and coloring it myself for years. As far as at-home permanent colors go, I liked Clairol Hydrience (?) best. I used Feria once to darken my hair and it turned out with a slight purple tone, so I was too scared to try it again.
The Garnier Herbashine was nice. I had about 2 inches of roots from the last time that I had my hair lightened at the salon. This color (medium natural brown) fully covered both my roots and the bleached portion equally. It only took 10 minutes and I’ve been very happy with it. I only wash my hair every 3 days, so it will take awhile before I have to do it again, but its already been 1 month and the color is slightly lighter than it was the first 2 days (which is good because it was a little too dark at first) but the color has stayed pretty similar throughout the month. The smell of the product wasn’t as overwhelming as other brands that I’ve tried and I loved the conditioner that was included in the kit. My hair looks very healthy and I don’t think this color damaged it in any way.
In terms of general home hair coloring advice, do a test strip as advised on a small section of hair that will be hidden whether your hair is up or down. Also, if you hair is shoulder length or longer or you have a lot of hair in general, you may need 2 boxes of color. Also, take a picture of the box or write down exactly what it was in case you love it and want to keep up the same color. I’ve been at the store on more than 1 occasion completely confused about which color I had used the last time when I wanted to keep it the same.
Anonymous
Re: suggestion to writing down the color:
I have taken to keeping a memo list in my Blackberry with this kind of information – products I use or products I want to try – as i often decide to stop at a store without planning or see a sale or whatever. I’m not the most organized person, and have to be conscious about such things, so this is really helping me.
Anonymous
I like L’Oreal Feria and Preference. I’m a redhead just covering gray hairs so I match to my original natural color. Preference is a more natural look and Feria is a bit, I don’t know, shimmery.
Darlene
I can’t remember the specific brands, but I’ve had good luck with the two organic versions I’ve tried from Whole Foods. My former colorist at Devachan can tell the difference, but I can’t. I have regular brown hair, and the 8N color brightens it and looks natural.
conbrio
I’ve been using Naturcolor 7R (Turmeric Blonde) for years – I get it at Whole Foods and I love it. I get compliments all the time, including from everybody at the salon where I have my hair cut – they think it looks like salon color and can’t believe I do it myself. It makes my hair shiny, it doesn’t have a bad smell and – very important to me – it’s cruelty-free (no animal testing, no animal-derived products). It comes in a lot of colors, and it’s only $14.99.
By the way – the Turmeric Blonde isn’t blonde; it’s actually an intense coppery red. Very pretty. I really recommend this brand.
TK1
I’ve done both salon and at home color. At home color is good if you are only going a few shades away from your original color and darker is generally better than lighter (which can turn orangy or greeny depending on the color base). I’ve used Herbal Essences, Garnier and Loreal and like them all. The only issue I ever really have is I tend to miss sections of hair becuase my hair is really thick, whereas I always get perfect coverage at the salon.
Ch-ch-ch-changes?
Hi Corporettes, I have a career transition question for you.
This morning I was informally offered a teaching fellowship at a law school, with a formal offer coming. I am currently a fifth-year lawyer who really likes my government job, I have great benefits, a decent salary, etc. I actually applied for the teaching fellowship months ago, before I was in my current position; I was not happy with my old position. However, it has long been my goal to be a law professor. I had high honors at a top 20 law school, experience in a very niche area of law, lots of scholarship and research, etc, but no appellate clerkship or any typical law prof credentials.
The teaching fellowship is in my broader practice area, and would involve research on any topic of my choosing within that area, with the expectation that I’d publish several articles over 2 years. It would also involve both clinical and some limited classroom teaching. The law school is in a large city with a lower cost of living than my current city. I really like the city where the law school is located. It is a lower tier law school, the graduates of which mostly stay in the city where the law school is located. It would represent a paycut – how much, I’m not sure, probably around 20% – and a reduction in benefits – likely I’d have health insurance but no retirement benefits (plus I would lose the unvested portion of my 401K). I have big student loan payments but would continue to qualify for income-based repayment.
My main problem is that I am truly happy in my current job and was not currently looking for work. I don’t want to leave my job for a lower-paying job in another city that won’t help me reach my long term goals. However, I also don’t want to miss an opportunity to pursue my ultimate career goal of law teaching, and I would be willing to make some sacrifices to get there. I really like the city where the school is located, but I also like my current city and my friends and professional contacts here. I do think that, after the two-year fellowship ends, I could fairly easily return to my current field if I am not able to get a law professor position.
So my question is for Corporettes who have some experience in law teaching and the legal job market. Do you think that such a position would be beneficial to my long-term goals? What would you do in my situation? At 28, should I be worried to take a job without retirement benefits? Should I be concerned about being affiliated with a lower-tier law school? What other concerns should I be thinking about?
Thanks in advance for what I’m sure will be very insightful responses :).
Res Ipsa
Your “long term goal” is to be a professor, not a government employee, right? In that case, isn’t this a stepping stone to getting there? How is your current career trajectory helping to get you there?
Are you hurting yourself by going to a “lower-tiered” school? I don’t know. How important is prestige to you where you teach? Why do you want to teach? Is it to write articles? Or to teach students? Lower-tiered schools tend to be more invested in actually teaching students the law, in my experience.
Finally-a job without retirement benefits for 2 years isn’t going to mess you up–but you should still plan to put some amount into a 401(k), Roth IRA or other investment.
Ch-ch-ch-changes?
Thanks. I don’t know much about retirement investments other than the 401K. Will definitely look into this.
law prof to be
I’m a regular poster here but I’m posting under a different name today. I was recently offered a tenure-track associate professorship at a top 60 law school. First, some questions:
Is your goal to be a clinical professor or a doctrinal one? The advice for whether this fellowship makes sense really depends on what “track” you want to be on.
Did you apply to any other fellowships like this one and what was the outcome?
You mention you have publications already, if these are law review articles, you are in great shape, and could likely get into higher ranked “VAPs” (Visiting Assistant Professor programs) at much higher ranked places: see this link for a helpful list:
http://www.thefacultylounge.org/2009/06/visiting-assistant-professor-list-vap-20092010.html
How low is this law school ranked? And what happens to graduates of the fellowship you’ve been offered? What do they do afterwards? Some lower ranked schools have been known to choose newbie professors from their fellowships, but generally speaking you do a fellowship like this because you’re going to go on the AALS market in the summer after you start, and you do it based on how much help/support they will give you for doing that.
You say that you have “no appellate clerkship or any typical law prof credentials.” Certainly an appellate clerkship is thought to be very helpful (and it is), but I don’t think it’s required (I wouldn’t necessarily advise you to go out and do one now, for example, even though it’d probably pay pretty decently). Other than the clerkship, I’m not sure what you mean by “typical law prof credentials” given that you say that you already have lots of scholarship and publications. That is the #1 thing that hiring schools are concerned with (in particular for doctrinal professors, but even for clinical ones). Showing that you’ve published even while working is a big big deal (with the caveat that if you want a doctrinal position, the publishing has to be almost exclusively in law reviews or other academic scholarship for it to count).
My final comment/suggestion is to go back to your professor mentors in law school and ask them what they think. They know the teaching market and are likely to be or have been in hiring committees. They’ll know your background and will best be able to advise you. The other main “law prof credential” I can think of that you do not mention is that: professors who support you. Believe it or not, your list of references in your CV is a big deal, because it’s a proxy for how “academic” you are (for a doctrinal job) or how “experienced” you are (in a clinical job). Mega bonus points if your references are highly regarded in your field (both practicing and academic).
I’ll check back in for responses, but I’ll mention the Prawfsblawg, which has lots of information for those who want to be professors. In particular this category of posts (the comments are particularly helpful): http://prawfsblawg.blogs.com/prawfsblawg/getting_a_job_on_the_law_teaching_market/
Ch-ch-ch-changes?
Thanks, this is very helpful. By typical credentials I meant no law review, no big-name firm. But I am in a very niche area. I want to be a doctrinal professor, and this job would involve both teaching one doctrinal class and clinical teaching. I will get in touch with some of my former profs (who served as references for this job), and check out the links you suggested.
law prof to be
If you really want to be a doctrinal prof then, the question really is: how do you maximize your chances of getting a teaching position. Particularly if you’re in a very niche area, there are just not a ton of positions going around and there are way too many people who want them. Lots of law review-type publications is great, teaching experience is great too. However, ask your profs if it wouldn’t be better for you to wait and apply to a higher-ranked fellowship program, or whether in your particular area of teaching you are already at the “perceived cap” or close to it by being a 5th year. In most scholarship areas, 5 years+ actually practicing as a lawyer is considered “too old” to be able to be a good scholar. Not everyone feels this way, but you’ll have a harder time getting a doctrinal job the longer you wait. Exceptions I can think of are: evidence and legal profession/ethics.
Anonymous
Thanks again. This is helpful. I already spoke to one of my former profs and will give another a call on Monday.
Ch-ch-ch-changes?
The above comment is from me, of course!
Ch-ch-ch-changes?
How does the AALS market work? In fact, this is a new fellowship, so I can’t look at what past fellows have done. The school offers fellowships in other areas and has some visiting profs, so I can look at them, but since my practice area is kind of limited I’m not sure how analogous it would be.
law prof to be
I did do the “meat market” as it’s sometimes called, however the Prawfsblawg has lots of info about it as does this page: http://www.aals.org/services_recruitment.php. Main thing is that it’s only once a year, so you have to time it right. And the best-case scenario is having a paper that has not yet been accepted for publication but is far enough along that if push came to shove, you’d send it. (It’s not unheard of to do a paper that’s already been accepted and/or published, but some schools won’t consider you in that event). I’d also read this blog: http://www.thefacultylounge.org/law_school_hiring/ and just google “meat market” and “law faculty hiring” etc. to get lots and lots more information. I’d also try to reach out to any newbie professors you know or who someone can put you in touch with: they’ll be a bountiful source of on-the-ground information.
law prof to be
meant to say *didn’t do*
pjbhawaii
How awesome that you graduated law school at age 23! You must of taken a lot of AP classes – good for you.
Ch-ch-ch-changes?
Finished college in 3 years with summer school, yep. In retrospect I kind of wish I’d had some fun for a couple years between college and law school, but at the time I knew I wanted to be a lawyer and didn’t see the point in putting law school off.
govvie girl
To paraphrase “When Harry Met Sally,” I wish I’d had what you had back in the day. Good on you for finishing so quickly!
k
What are your favorite personal finance books? I’m meeting with a financial advisor next week, but I’d like to do some research ahead of time.
Thanks all!
Merry R.
I can recommend “Prince Charming Isn’t Coming” by Barbara Stanny.
She is Richard Block’s (H&R Block) daughter who was wiped out financially by a husband. It is a small book, I found it an easy read and good tip of the iceberg for personal finance.
Lola
My financial adviser recommended “Smart Girls Finish Rich.”
FinanceGal
Agree with this rec. And if you are married or in a committed long term relationship you should try David Bach’s other book “Smart Couples Finish Rich”.
I’m also a big fan of the Boglehead Guides.
Anonymous
Personal Finance for Dummies (and Investing for Dummies) are both actually quite good.
Another Anon
I really like all things Suze Ormond. She encourages you to question how you feel about your money and to be brutally honest about why you spens the way you do.
Another Anon
Apologies for the early morning typo.
Kaye
Random Walk down Wall Street by Burton Malkiel. A bit more academic than the rest referenced here I think; has a great overview of elementary finance theory. Very focused on index investing rather than picking stocks. Also, it’s very focused on investing rather than an overall treatment of personal finance (which also includes budgeting, tax planning, estate planning and many other things).
govvie girl
And when you’re done reading stuff directly related to your money, I recommend “Freakonomics” (don’t think we can underline book titles here) for applying economic theory to everyday life. For a person who takes 5 tries to get through dry reading, this was a page-turner-very interesting. It also injected some pragmatic viewpoints into my life.
ae
Ramit Seth i – I Will Teach You To Be Rich.
No joke – I love it.
Poorva
Super late, but I would recommed Get Rich Slowly and The Simple Dollar. They’re both blogs, not books, but they are fantastic.
AE
Hi NYC Corporettes. I’m a Washingtonian staying in NYC this weekend and wanted to know if any of you had tips for where to go and what to do, particularly during the day (my fiancé and I already have dinner reservations and tickets for tonight and tomorrow night). We are staying in Times Square- if that makes a difference. Is there a good time of day to go to the Empire State Building or ground zero when lines aren’t long? Do you have a favorite, unique store or place to get lunch or brunch? Thanks, gals!
kz
dress warm–it’s going to be ridiculously cold for the next few days. As for brunch places near Times Square, I really like Eatery and Whym’s weekend brunches. They’re owned by the same people and the menus are similar. They’re both on 9th avenue. I can’t remember the cross streets, but they’re somewhere in the 50’s, and only a couple of blocks apart.
j
Love Whym! Second!
anon-ny
Ha! My ‘hood! Eatery is on 53rd and 9th and Whym is on 9th between 57th and 58th. I would also add Vynl as a funky brunch spot on 9th and 50th or 51st. I am also absolutely in loooove with a little French bakery that has amazing pastries and an excellent brunch on 52nd between 10th and 11th Ave (worth the trek!). It is called la bergamote. Hmmm, it has been a while since I’ve been there so I think I need to pick up a pain au chocolat a demain!
Delphinium Home on 9th between 45th and 46th is a fun little store in the area I really like. I often find great gifts for people and they have a lot of non-touristy NYC souvenier items. They have a second card location on 47th I believe but I prefer the home store.
Oh, and a couple of other brunch suggestions that aren’t right in the neighborhood but not far are Sarabeth’s on Central Park South (b/w 5th and 6th I think) and Norma’s in Le Parker Meridian hotel is excellent (on 57th b/w 6th and 7th) but be sure to make a reservation.
Have fun and bundle up – also wear weather proof boots because the streets are slushy and gross these days.
Anonymous
Hmmm…. there are about a jillion places to get brunch. For something a little different, I like The Delta Grill, in the West 40s. Its cajun/creole.
Not for brunch, but I also loooove the Bubble Lounge champagne bar in Tribeca. One of my other favorite spots to drink is the Salon de Ning on the rooftop at the Peninsula hotel (near Rockefeller Center). It’s overpriced, but the views are so amazing. Also, there’s a Magnolia Bakery close by. =)
It is going to be freezing here this morning, so pack warm clothes!
AIMS
Empire State Building is open till late at night (1 am?), last car up is at either 11 or 12. You could go there at night. The view is spectacular (although you don’t quite see as far) and there are hardly any crowds and no children late night.
You could also skip ESB and go to Top of the Rock instead. It’s at Rockefeller Center & I actually prefer it (though some people prefer ESB because it’s . . . well, ESB). Top of the Rock has almost no lines, much more streamlined process to get up top, and better views — clear glass barricades, instead of high bars. Also because not as many people go, you can enjoy it much more, no need to feel 37 elbows shoved at your sides.
The Rockefeller Center area is very pretty. There’s an ice skating ring (you can also go ice skating in Bryant Park [cheaper and just as nice]). It’s a great walk up Fifth Ave past all the great stores, up to Central Park — maybe have a drink at the Oak Bar at the Plaza (very Mad Men/old New York).
Besides Central Park and ice skating, there’s a ton of museums — the Met is great, so is Natural History, Moma or the Guggenheim. Moma would be closest to your hotel, but don’t go unless you’re into modern art.
For brunch, since you’re staying in Times Sq., I would recommend Norma’s at Le Parker Meridien (West 56). The food in Times Sq. is kinda meh — if you want to eat well in that area, venture over to Hell’s Kitchen (nearby) which has some cute options around 9th avenue in the West 40s.
Other fantastic brunch/lunch spots are: Clinton Street Baking Co (downtown; pancakes to die for, be prepared to wait); Sarabeth’s (Upper East Side and West [though East Side location is better] — great if you want to go to a museum + do brunch; seriously amazing bloody mary); Good (on Greenwich Ave, West Village). There are others, of course, but those are some options.
If you and your boyfriend are burger fans, you should try to go either to Shake Shack (make sure to have a “concrete” [a.k.a., shake], locations Upper East, Upper West, and Madison Sq. Park – around east 23 street) or if you are on the Upper East Side and want to feel like you stepped back in time, go to Lexington Avenue Candy Shop (Lexington & east 83rd) — great burgers & real fountain soda with syrup, lime rickeys, egg creams, etc.!
Have a great time & dress warm. It’s supposed to be very cold this weekend! I recommend keeping warm with hot chocolate (City Bakery on east 18th st., off 5th ave., has the best; also their pretzel croissants are to die for).
kz
I’m going to dissent on Norma’s. I didn’t think the food was any better than a lot of brunch places, and it’s a lot more expensive. It’s good, I just don’t think it’s special for the price. Also, if you go to Norma’s, be warned–they bring around pitchers of orange juice and ask you if you want any. What they don’t tell you is it’s something ridiculous like $9 a glass.
I will wholeheartedly agree with Good, though. It is, in fact, good.
Speaking of burgers, there’s a good burger place across from Norma’s. It’s also in the Parker Meridien, but it’s hidden behind a curtain. If you aren’t looking for it, you won’t find it. Unless you see the line, of course. I think it’s just called Burger Joint or something.
EM
$12. Can you believe it. And they totally trick you into the glass.
It’s the best OJ I’ve ever had but still. $12.
E.E.
AH, I HATE that! Just had similar experience where I was at an Asian fusion restaurant and they came around with hot tea, asked if we wanted any, said sure, and then charged $3 each! Not as high $ price but so unexpected. Ugh.
Jen L
Burger Joint in the Parker Meridien is fantastic. They really only make burgers, shakes, and fries (and maybe onion rings) and are great at it.
ballerina girl
Yes! Really good! But sometimes an awkward wait in a small space. Norma is good but very pricey. I went for a work thing and we were still kind of shocked. $15 for a small coffee carafe (for two)!
Jen L
I second the suggestion to do the Empire State Building later at night. I’ve done it twice and the longest I waited was 30 minutes. The feeling up there looking at all the lights is incredible.
Anonymous
I would go for drinks to the Empire Hotel on Broadway about 63rd Street or so. It is very romantic, and is featured on Gossip Girl, if you watch that show like I do.
Lola
That place is real?!!??? I so want to go there.
Love that show.
AE
Thanks for all your suggestions, Corporettes. We enjoyed brunch at Whym and went to the ESB during the day. We had a lot of fun even though it was FREEZING. Have a good week, gals.
A-A-A-A-Anonymous
Has anyone tried the new suiting options at Boden? I’ve been looking for a navy skirt suit that’s not super-basic and that’s mid-to-low priced and the Boden one seems to fit the bill. I’ve only tried dresses from there, though, never separates, so I’m not sure how the fit will be. Any pointers?
Michelle
have bought blazers but not full suits; I am chesty and size up for jackets and my usual size fits loosely from them, not very tapered – but I have kept them all so far, they are mostly classic cuts with a bit of a fun streak and very nice quality(I love the lining fabrics and similar touches). If you are between sizes I’d say size down. can’t speak to bottoms at all.
Anon
Do any of you ladies have any advice on how to deal with feeling unappreciated at work? I work my a$$ off and produce good work (and quickly), but I just feel like I’m taken for granted. It’s starting to wear on me. Any suggestions? FWIW, I’m a 3rd year associate – perhaps it’s a 3rd year slump…
TIA!
Lola
The only advice I have is to make sure people know you’re working your ass off. Sometimes it takes a little self-marketing to get what you want. And that’s ok, it’s just how the game is played.
And figure out what it is you’re looking for – what does “appreciation” mean to you? Good words from colleagues? A raise? Praise from a supervisor?
Anon
I’m the original anon. I think I’m looking for more responsibility – not in terms of workload, but in terms of what I am assigned to do.
Anonymous
If the problem is that you want more responsibility, speak up and ask for it!
Lola
Yeah. Sounds like you need to ask for it.
Ask your supervisor for some facetime, and go in with a list of accomplishments that you have done over the last year or so, and ask for what you want. You’d be surprised. You may just get it.
Anonymous
Ask for it. I had the same problem at around the same level in my career. I pushed to get a higher level of responsibility. It took some convincing, but my boss came around and let me lead a major project, and once I proved myself on that I got more and more challenging and interesting work.
mille
I’ve heard good things about “nice girls don’t get the corner office”. I read it several years ago but have forgotten most of it because I wasn’t working then. If I remember right, that book had a lot of suggestions for different ways to promote your work and get you noticed.
Kaye
It’s focused more on creating an “executive presence” though than on actual ways to get noticed. For example, it will tell you to not file your nails at your desk, not speak too high, etc. Don’t get me wrong, it’s a great book, everyone should read it. But doesn’t address this specific issue.
But yeah – if you want more responsibility, ask for more responsibility.
And if you’re not convinced about the value of asking for what you want, read Women Don’t Ask – again not a whole lot of specific advice, but a definite wake-up-call and attitude changer!
JessC
Help!
I had an interview last week that I think went pretty well (the same one I mentioned a few days ago in one of the regular posts’ comments)… at least I thought it went well until just a few minutes ago. After the interview, I learned that a former classmate of mine works at the firm. So I shot her an email asking her if she liked it there and what her opinion of the place was. She called me, we talked a bit and she told me what their starting associate salary is.
Here’s the problem – during the interview, I was asked for my salary expectations. Try as I might to avoid it, they insisted on knowing what figures I had in mind and I gave them a range. Prior to asking for my expectations, they told me the salary was “pretty competitive” so I gave them a $10K range which includes what I understand to be the median start salary for a mid-sized firm in my city. Turns out, the starting salary is actually $4K lower than the lower number in the range I gave.
So… what, if anything, should I do? If they offer me the job I’d take it and with bonuses I would be definitely be in the range I mentioned (possibly even a little better). Should I just let it go or email the interviewers and tell them I’m open to a salary outside the range? FWIW, the interview was Wednesday last week.
non
Oh definitely let it go. It’s not like you were off by 20K or some amount where you might need to contact them. Let it GOOOOOOOO.
mamabear
I agree with Non. It’s always better to ask for a little too much than a little too little. Who knows, you might actually get the extra $4k. Even if not, this slight difference in expectations would not put you out of the running.
Take a deep breath and try not to think about it over the weekend. (Easier said than done, I know.)
Lola
If you get the extra $4k, which you actually might, then don’t tell your friend.
Otherwise, wait and see what they say. There’s no reason to contact them. You value yourself. That’s a good trait in an interviewee. Most women ask for less than they are worth. Good on you. :)
Anon
I got an extra 5k in starting salary by giving what I honestly thought was the range in my city (same as you) – I later found out the other associates who started w/ me were making 5k less. Just enjoy the extra money and chalk up the windfall to being the kind of woman who knows how to talk numbers and play hardball. =)
MJ
Also, negotiations tip. Never give a range when negotiating. You anchor on the high end as the interviewee, they anchor on the low end. So it’s not a range. Each person has his or her perspective. Just give one figure.
Anonymous
Definitely let it go. This is a good thing! I thought you were going to say you lowballed them, which is a bad thing. Always good to ask for slightly more money so they don’t lowball you!
houda
Hello ladies;
I have an etiquette question about going out as the third wheel.
I have recently met a person whom I realized I get along with very well.
We grabbed a couple coffees and I cherish (sp?) this new friendship.
His wife also was very nice to me so I wanted to secure her that I am not romantically interested in her husband.
Recently the friend called me to meet up and I said great let’s set something with your wife and go grab a bite somewhere.
Here comes the etiquette question:
Usually when we grab a coffee he foots the bill out of gallantry. I tried inviting him once but somehow he ended up eating nothing and even got me coffee afterwards.
This is the first time we will go with his wife and it is probably for more than a coffee. I know he will pay for us without blinking. If I were his girlfriend or if it were just 5 dollars for a coffee, I wouldn’t mind.
But somehow I feel uncomfortable that he would pay my dinner (15-20 dollars), and I cannot think of any polite way to pay for myself without being a jerk.
Am I just being oversensitive?
Anon L
Carry a bit of cash. Sometimes it’s easier to hand someone a $20 than to plunk a card down. And if he still insists on paying the bill, offer to cover the tip for the entire bill in cash. An
mamabear
I would actually say, “No, no no. It’s my turn. You bought last time,” and then pay for all three of you.
Friends either split the bill or take turns paying. Otherwise, it feels like something other than friendship.
Anonymous
+1 for this suggestion. And don’t hesitate about it — when the check comes, insist on paying, then hand your credit card to the waiter.
Lola
I’m not sure if I’d say, “You paid last time.” You don’t want his wife to think he was out buying you meals without her.
If you want to hand the waiter your credit card, there’s no explanation really necessary. You could just say, “My treat.”
Anon
+1 for this. If your goal is to assure the wife there’s no romantic interest, don’t say “you paid last time.”
Lola
I’d hand him a $20 at the end of the meal. If he accepts, then you’re sending the right message. If he doesn’t, then it might make his wife uncomfortable. Either way, you’re sending the right message to his wife.
Anonymous
You are Moroccan, right? I think it is difficult for a Moroccan man to allow a woman to pay for him, in any circumstance. So long as you are not taking advantage of him – always offering to pay, and inviting him occasionally even though he won’t accept – I don’t think you can do anything to stop this. I think it is a good idea to offer to pay for him and his wife, but I don’t think they’ll accept.
houda
Yep I’m moroccan, but he is “half” moroccan so quite open minded.
houda
Ladies; reporting back on what happened.
So we planned to go all three of us and the wife said she was too tired, so I ended up going with him to a pub, had one energy drink and he paid upfront at the bar. Then we had one game of pool (billiard) where I paid.
So eventually, we didn’t go through the whole dining situation and the great part is that his wife trusts me enough to ask us to go alone :)
I think at this point he clearly explained that he is mentoring me in my personal life and that he is just a guy BFF.
I am relieved and just wanted to share with you all and thank you for the advice which I’ll keep for next awkward dining situations.
Anon L
The “An” shouldn’t be there. My bad. =)
C3
I love my morning coffee and usually brew it at home and take it to work with me. I got a great travel coffee mug about 5 years ago from Starbucks that is spill-proof and insulated. It keeps my coffee warm for hours. However, the mug is beginning to fall apart and I am looking for a new one (I have purchased 3) with no success. Any recommendations from other coffee/tea drinkers out there?
SF Bay Associate
I got a 2-pack of Contigo thermoses at Costco for like $20 – they are great. They keep drinks warm for hours, don’t leak, and then get thrown in the dishwasher. Hopefully you can find them at your Costco because they are almost twice the price at Amazon.
2L
I second this recommendation. My tea was still so hot after my hour commute (driving plus walking through snow) that I had to let it sit before drinking it. Plus when I was done I could just throw it in my bag and not worry about things getting wet (and tea stained). I think you can get Contigo at Target but, like SF Bay Associate said about Amazon, they are around $20 per mug there.
PermFedClerk
Oh, this question brought me back to elementary school — I want to raise my hand, squirm in my seat, and say, “I know! I know!” Thermos Nissan vacuum-insulated mugs are the absolute best. I can’t say enough good things about them. I’m a huge coffee drinker and have had a 30+ minute commute for a long time. I’ve been through zillions of travel mugs, and most of them are just plain lousy. My very favorite mug is this one, currently available at Target:
http://tinyurl.com/4sq5h8o
(In case I’ve managed to screw up my first-ever foray into the tiny url world, search Target for Thermos 20 oz. stainless travel mug — $24.99). The 360-degree drink feature on this mug is great, and it really is pretty darn leakproof. If the lid is twisted closed, a drop or two might ooze out if you knock it over, but that’s about it.
The vacuum insulation is the really the key — it keeps things hot for SO much longer than any brand of foam insulated I’ve ever found. Bald Mountain Coffee sells other models of Thermos Nissan mugs and bottles (and they won’t even stock foam insulated mugs), but they don’t currently have my beloved one in stock. $25 bucks for a travel mug may seem kind of steep, but it is absolutely worth it. I will never buy another kind of mug again.
Res Ipsa
Oh yeah-totally agree on the Nissan mugs. The one I have has two lids–one with a hole for sipping & one without. Both are great, but if you use the closed lid for commuting, it keeps the beverage hot for hours. Amazing. I used to use mine for my hour commute to law school and my coffee would still be warm well through my first class.
Janie
I’ve got one of these too and it’s amazing.
mille
The teavana website has some very nice Thermos tea-brewing travel mugs. I bought one for my husband and he uses it all the time.
Tailor PSA
friendly PSA for all those in NYC: I have finally found a tailor I like. The Tailoring Room in the Lower East Side (42 Clinton between Stanton and Rivington) is fantastic! I have had 18 pairs of pants hemmed there (11 regular, 7 maternity) in two different batches and their workmanship and service is impressive. Plus a regular hem is only $5, with lined pants, fancy cuffs, etc. a little more. On MLK weekend I took 7 pairs of maternity pants in on Saturday night and they were done by Monday night (a holiday). They have great hours and are super friendly (the guy I presume is the owner, Frankie, has helped me both times). This is just a tailoring shop, with lots of employees working over sewing machines the old-fashioned way, not a dry cleaners that will do tailoring on the side (as is probably obvious by the name). I can’t vouch for their ability to do more complicated tailoring since my jobs have all been simple hems, but they clearly do a large volume of work by the racks of clothes they have waiting to be picked up and the foot traffic in and out. I’m definitely going there if I need any more tailoring done. You would think a good tailor would be easy to find in NYC but I have been so dissatisfied with others I have tried (I’m only 5 feet tall so I need EVERYTHING hemmed).
Darlene
Wow. Thanks for this PSA. It’s on my to-do list to find someone, and I appreciate your vouching for them.
EPQ
Second. I will be checking them out this weekend. Thanks!
E.E.
Another thank you! Still holding out hope for someone in my neighborhood (midtown east) but in the meantime, I’ll give these guys a shot!
Anonymous
Hello! I’m at the point in my career/life where I’d like to take a gap year before the next step, professionally speaking. I’m thinking about teaching English in Asia, specifically Thailand. Does anyone have any experience with this and how it may look on a resume? Or any other ideas?
AsiaAnon
I did this, and a supposedly one year stint in Asia turned into 10 years. But you really haven’t given enough info here for me to give any real suggestions. For example, your age, how long you have been doing your career, what that career is, have you done grad school, are you thinking of transitioning to a different career, etc… Generally speaking, most of the English teachers in Asia are in their early 20s, earn just enough to live and travel on, do it for about a year, and then return to their home countries, and mostly just keep their gap year off their resumes. You seem to be suggesting that you’re more mature than this.
Anonymous
Uh, no grad school yet. I’m in my early 20s. It’s just time for a change.
Anne
I can;t imagine doing this in the current economic climate. Unless you have serious family money, or a known easy on route, I think this is a risky waste of time. Everyone I know who has done this (roughly 10) has come back with no prospects or goals, more confused than when they left.
v
But if you’re in your earlier 20s and haven’t established a career already, I’m not sure why now is a worse time to take a gap year than any other; you’re not really giving up anything. If anything, you’re sitting out the bad economy in a way that doesn’t run up huge amounts of debt the way grad school can.
Coming out more confused is another thing, but I’m not sure this is universal. The people I know who took time to do something in another country when they were young found it to be a really world-expanding experience in a lot of ways even if it didn’t magically clarify their career trajectories or something.
Eponine
What are you currently doing now, why do you want to take a gap year, and what would you like to be doing in 5 years?
Can’t give you advice without knowing a bit more context. In general, if you don’t have serious career ambitions at the moment and you want to enjoy yourself and do something interesting, I think this is a fine idea.
coco
I came back from a two year stint teaching/working abroad about a year ago…and it has been a tough year. In the current economic climate, it is hard to find a job when your qualifications are outside the “norm”. I have felt that I not only need to explain my qualifications but have to explain an entire set of cultural norms to give context to my situation. That being said, I was coming from a developing country that most of the world has not even hear of.
What do you hope to get out of your experience teaching? Are you looking to travel or break out of a rut or are you interested in pursuing a career where either international or teaching experience would be beneficial? I taught abroad as part of a program, and I think that very few of us felt that our work was an asset professionally when returning to the states. That does not mean that we did not get a lot out of the program or develop new skills; it just didn’t translate into better jobs or career advancements.
Another thing to think about is transitions and how well you will be able to adapt to a new culture – and how you will feel coming back. It took me quite a while to readjust to the pace and style of life in the U.S. Obviously, this will depend on where you go, but it is something that many people forget to think about.
Because of the economy, more and more people are applying to volunteer programs or overseas teaching jobs. I think it will become more common to see it on resumes in the up-coming years, but be prepared to justify your time away, especially if it is not for professional advancement.
MelD
I taught in Asia for 2 years and it did not seem to have any negative impact on my career or any of the (shorter term) other people I still talk to went abroad to teach. I think it’s a great thing to do when you are still in your early to mid-twenties and while it may be difficult to find a job when you get back, it is well worth it. I have a couple of friends who are still relatively aimless, but for the most part, all of us are gainfully employed in a variety of careers now.
Marie
Are you set on teaching? If you have the interest, a year-long language program may be more useful, and the prices can be very low if you choose something that is not organized specifically for Americans. (Which will also make the language experience better, since your classmates will be from other countries and you will need to use the local language for communicating with each other.) I did that in China, and it was a fantastic investment. The people who were in China teaching English really did not learn Chinese well, because they were always speaking English…and the salaries are not great either. As language student at the right school, you can learn something new, maybe even do an internship, etc. in a local company, and that could set you up for some interesting professional opportunities afterward.
Another Sarah
I agree with everyone that it depends on your context. Yes, it can be difficult given this current economic climate. However, it all depends on what you were planning on doing afterward. I taught abroad for a year between college and law school, but I knew I was going to law school after that year. After the culture shock and homesickness wore off, it was the perfect break – I already spoke the language and loved my kids and traveling. Writing about shipping myself off to a foreign land for the challenge in my personal statement got me scholarships. Teaching abroad gave me something to talk about in those first couple interviews. And it helps your general credibility with others if you have tangible experience in pushing your own boundaries. But I kind of agree with the people who say that if you just want to do it to figure out your life, it may not be the best idea. It was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, and I’m glad I didn’t also have to figure out my life in the process. :-)
Anonymous
Why not Peace Corps? It solves the resume problem- it’s very well looked on by those in international fields, but even in less-related fields it’s something people understand on a resume. My impression is that it looks more serious on a resume than just a year somewhere in Thailand. Also, you get to learn another language! The training they give you before you go to your post is really unparalleled- three months of learning another language while living with a host family in country.
v
I don’t say this at all to smear the program, because I know people have wonderful, life-changing experiences through it, but it does seem like any woman thinking about applying should also consider some of the recent sexual assaults that have occurred and perhaps more importantly (since sexual assault sadly is common in developed nations too) the program’s allegedly terrible reactions to them: http://jezebel.com/5736737/are-women-in-peace-corps-at-risk
Anon23
Very interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Anonymous
I was rejected from the Peace Corps because of health reasons, unfortunately
Janie
Do it. I know people who have done this in Korea and thought it a worthwhile experience. If you spin it right, it will look good on your resume – you are living in a different country, navigating a different culture, doing something completely different. Not directly applicable to most things, but these kinds of skills can’t hurt. Korea is a good choice because if you pick the right school/position, the pay and cost of living line up such that you can save tons of money. Some people I knew there came home with as much as $20k after a year there, others traveled an entire year on their earnings. Plus Korean food is awesome, and the country is great too :) My advice would be to look for alumni of specific programs or schools and talk to them about their experience.
cbackson
I took what I thought would be a year off after college, and went to Latin American for what I thought would be three months. It ended up being two years, during which I became fluent in Spanish and ended up with a very cool, professional job with some U.S. organizations with extremely high name recognition. It has absolutely been a big advantage, career-wise.
That said, the value really depends on what you make of it. You’ll get the greatest value out of it if you choose a country that has some relevance to your career interests and acquire language skills. If you aren’t planning a future career that has international implications, then this decision is more about your personal fulfillment than your career. And that’s okay, if you can afford it.
If I were interviewing a candidate for a job in, say, corporate finance, and that candidate had taught English in Thailand before law school, it wouldn’t make much of an impression on me either way. There are a lot of people who have that sort of experience on their resumes; unless it has some relation to what they plan to do in the future, I kind of shrug and ignore it.
Lawyer
I did a year in Japan after law school when I was (still am) in my 30s
I work contract so I wasn’t giving up any sort of career trajectory, and it has actually helped me get more contract gigs because it’s something different from the other applicants, and employers guess (correctly) that I am not angling for a full-time job with them
Good luck and have a great time!
2L
I have a LinkedIn etiquette question. I have had a few meetings and informational interviews with attorneys and they have mostly been very nice and some have generously offered to pass my resume around and to answer any questions I may have, etc. My question is when (if ever) is it appropriate to “connect” with those types of people on LinkedIn? Should I wait until I have more regular correspondence with someone? I am generally unsure of how LinkedIn is supposed to work other than just putting my information out there.
Anonymous
I offer similar mentoring services to law students from my alma mater from time to time and would not be offended if they connected with me on LinkedIn.
Anon
Has anyone here adopted a child? Also, is anyone here adopted? Hubby and I are thinking about adopting a child in the future (probably a child in the 6 month to 1 year range.) We do not have fertility problems (as far as we know) but are not interested in having a biological child for a huge long variety of reasons.
For those who adopted, I’m curious how you dealt with it professionally. I feel like it is going to spurn some gossping “oh, I didn’t know they were trying to conceive and couldn’t . . . etc.” I have a feeling I would somehow just slip something into conversation that this was a choice and not a “last resort” without getting into TMI but I’m not even sure how to do that.
I’d also like to hear from the adopted – how old were they when they were adopted, did they feel like a “real” part of their family, did it matter to them if they looked like their family, etc. (ex. same race/different race.)
TIA.
Adoptee
I was adopted at 4 months old from Asia and am now 30. My parents are Americans of Scandinavian and German heritage. I never felt like I wasn’t my parents’ child, and was never treated like I was the “adopted” daughter. My mother would tell people I was adopted (as if it wasn’t already visibly obvious!), but I was never called “my *adopted* daughter.” It wasn’t always easy being adopted and looking different from my family, but I grew up in the 80s and I think that today it would be easier–diversity is so much more a part of the lingo.
I think it’s wonderful that you’re thinking of adopting. I had a wonderful childhood–notwithstanding the occasional racial slur from ignorant people–and my parents and I have a great relationship today.
Another Anon
Please don’t take this the wrong way: you’d be surprised how little anyone cares.
Several senior executives have family photos that make it clear the kids are adopted and no one gives two hoots.
However, if your child/children were conceived by an office affair, you will definitely be gossiped about.
Darlene
One of the associates at my former law firm confided in several people that she and her husband were on the waiting list to adopt. When they moved to the top of the list, it was celebratory news for all who knew about it.
s
I would advise against being so public. I had a dear friend who was adopting a little girl and it fell through at the last minute (father had doubts and convinced the birth mom to reconsider). My friend already had a baby shower. It made the grief afterward much more difficult as she continually was having to have conversations from well-meaning (though sometimes foot-in-mouth) colleagues. Most people wouldn’t tell someone who miscarried that you can just get another but somehow adopting made it seem acceptable to many folks. That is not at all what she needed to hear. At any rate, she and her husband fortunately were able to adopt later, but this time they waited to announce until the baby was at home.
Samantha
Congrats on your decision and good luck with the process!
My very close friends adopted from another country. They were open about the fact that they were on a waiting list, and when they got the baby they took time off work and were again open about why.
By and large they did not get questions about WHY they were adopting – definitely not from colleagues (though colleagues may have wondered).
That kind of question (why did you adopt, did you try for a bio kid first, why not try IVF etc.) more commonly comes from nosy extended family.
I’d say don’t worry about dropping that hint to everyone (‘not a last resort’) unless asked. Have a short answer available when asked (with as little detail as you feel comfortable providing), and immediately segue into ‘We are excited about the new addition’ etc. to discourage more questions.
ADB_BWG
My brother was adopted (back in the 1960s) and other that wishing he had medical info, which is hard to get from the state where his adoption occurred, has seemed to take it in stride. In fact “being adopted” was sometimes his thing for show-and-tell, and he was known for taunting me with the fact (“I was chosen!” he’d hiss. “They HAD to take you!”).
Anon
I love that!
Anon
I was adopted by my grandparents when I was a toddler. I know that’s a little different from what you’re talking about, but I do know how it feels to be adopted and have parents who are different from the norm. I absolutely never felt like I wasn’t their child. In fact, I don’t know my father, and I never had any urge whatsoever to figure out who he was or find him because I always felt so loved. Of course, many adoptees have much different experiences and long to figure out who they are, biologically. Sometimes I did feel self conscious that my parents didn’t look like other parents, but I got over it at a certain age and now it’s just fine.
As far as what everyone will think about your fertility or lack thereof. I think you shouldn’t try to stop people from speculating why you adopted. Adoption is a legitimate way to build a family, and if you were infertile, so what? Why does it bother you that people would think that? It’s really no one else’s business and if they’re going to gossip about the way you’re building a family with your husband, then your being defensive about your fertility status is not going to change anything. Obviously if someone asks you, you should tell the truth, but I don’t think you should say, “We’re adopting! It’s not because we can’t conceive the old fashioned way!”
Anon
Excellent point! It really doesn’t matter why. I guess i just didn’t want pity from people when what I would really want is excitement. We aren’t quite ready to take the plunge yet so I have some time to stop caring what other people think.
Anon
Aha! I am the Anon from above. I didn’t think about your not wanting others to pity you. Going through fertility problems myself has made me a little sensitive to the stigma surrounding being unable to conceive.
Good luck with your journey. I am also hoping to adopt, one of these days.
D
My sister, now 8, was adopted from China when she was about 2. Her parents (my father’s second marriage) are white, so it’s no secret that she’s adopted. From the beginning, we have been very open about everything we know about where she came from. When they went to get her from the orphanage, they took pictures of everything – her orphanage, the people who worked there and obviously cared for her very much, her crib, etc. They also bought some local art, and wrote down everything anyone could tell them about how my sister ended up at the orphanage. With the pictures and information, they made a shutterfly book so she could look whenever she wanted. They also bought all the children’s adopted-theme books to read to her. They are sending her to Mandarin immersion school to help her stay connected to her heritage (and frankly give her a leg up in the economy later), and several other children there are internationally adopted, too. We expect to take a family trip back to her hometown when she is in high school.
Some of the babies that were adopted at the same time from the same orphanage (China kinda releases a group of babies together) also went to parents who live near the city we are, so the adoptee girls all meet up a few times a year and play together. They were adopted by very different families (one is the granddaughter of a Fortune 100 exec and lives on an estate with servants) so I expect they will drift apart as teens, but I also expect they will come back together when they are older because they have their unique shared experience.
Of course I cannot speak for my sister, but I can say she is very attached to her parents – to the point that it has taken years for her to grasp how we are sisters because as far as she’s concerned, her parents are hers and hers alone (hilarious!). My dad’s wife’s brother + wife + 2 kids + and her father live nearby, so my sister sees her cousins and her grandpa and aunt and uncle pretty much daily. Though she hasn’t hit her angsty teenage years yet, at this point my sister has no doubt at all that she is a) adopted and b) 100% part of the family. She is a wonderful part of my life.
My dad and his wife did try IVF first, several times, but it did not work. I do not know if my sister knows about that, or if that matters at all. Now my dad’s wife wears a necklace that has the chinese character for mother on it, which I think is pretty awesome. They are absolutely dedicated to my sister.
Laura
I can’t speak from personal experience, but a woman that I know and think incredibly highly of adopted a boy from Ethiopia back in 2009. I believe he was about 6 months old when they adopted him, and she chronicled a lot of different aspects of adoption on her blog: http://rosiemolinary.com/tag/adoption/
There were a lot of things–having a pediatrician that focused on adoption, various things about who could hold the baby and when, etc.–that I would never have considered, but made sense after reading them. She references several books that she and her husband read, too.
Lola
There are several adopted kids from different countries in different branches of my family. I also know several families in my faith community that have adopted girls from China.
None of them are any less their parents’ children than a biological kid. When you’re adopted, you parents are your parents. Your sisters and brothers are your sisters and brothers, whether they are the same race as you or have the same bio relatives as you do.
I agree with the other poster that if people in your office are going to be concerned about your biological fertility, honestly, who cares. It’s none of their business, and there’s really nothing they can say or do that will actually harm you. So what if you’re having a tough time making a bio baby? So what if you are perfectly capable of making a bio baby, but would rather adopt, because there are a lot of kids out there that need homes? Either way, you’re doing the right thing for you.
I would get as much medical history from the biological parents as you can. Sometimes there’s not much to get, but do what you can.
I also have a pair of family members that were adopted as a brother and sister pair, one was 3 and one was 1. They were from a developing country and it is a cross-racial adoption. The older child has been diagnosed with some pretty severe mental health issues, and they think it might be related to the age she was adopted. The older the child, the higher risk of this.
If you decide to go cross-racial, it’s really important to keep the kid in touch with their heritage. Help them learn the language, as another poster suggested, and expose them to others with their same heritage. If your daughter in Chinese/Latino/Russian/whatever, and you are not, that doesn’t mean you’re any less of a family. It means you’re the kind of family whose love crosses a lot of boundaries.
Good luck. There’s nothing wrong with adoption.
kellyn
My older sister is adopted, from my state. My parents had serious fertility issues and adoption became their prime option. As the younger sister of an adopted sibling, I have to say, adoption makes families happen. Be proud of the family you are creating, and shut everything else out. It is no doubt a lengthy and difficult process, but worth it.
Without it, I wouldn’t have a family.
Go for it, and godspeed!
Anonymous
I don’t think you’re under any obligation to tell people why you’re adopting (my aunt and uncle adopted my cousins 20 and 18 years ago, and no one in our family has any idea why they adopted; they already had one biological child), but it’s fine to share your motives for adopting if you want to. It’s not TMI; just say “when we decided to grow our family, we thought about it a lot and we decided to adopt instead of getting pregnant” and leave it at that.
I also think it’s good to involve your friends and coworkers in celebrating your new arrival the same way that a biological mother would – for instance, have a shower after you’ve brought the baby home and send out adoption announcements with a photo.
Question for HR types
Forgive my cluelessness on this. I could use any insight or advice.
I just found out that my boss is leaving our company. I was hired to work specifically for him, and I work only with him. I have been in the position less than a year, but with great evaluations (from him).
He assures me that I will not be laid off and “have a place” at our company for as long as I want it. However, I don’t think that’s really true, and once he’s gone he will have no say or even knowledge on this anyway. I don’t think anyone else will really give me work going forward, and (more importantly) I think if they do, it will not be work appropriate to my skill set and background. In other words, even if I can technically stay in this job, I don’t think it makes sense for me.
Can I ask the company to officially lay me off? My concerns are how this time will appear on my resume, and I would definitely benefit from severance pay if I can get any. The position I was hired for is, in effect, being terminated, and it was through no choice of my own at all. But is this ever done? If I’m way off here, what are some other options? Thanks.
B
I feel for you. Never ask to be laid off–the firm can view this your voluntarily leaving and you won’t get unemployment benefits. What specific kind of work do you do, and is there demand for your skills elsewhere? That is the big thing. Never leave a paycheck for nothing, especially these days. My friend has been out of work for almost 2 years now. And what about asking your boss if he will take you with him to whereever he is going? If the guy is any good, unless he is retiring, you should consider following him to his next job. Finally, never ever burn any britches, either with your boss or with your firm. Good luck to you!
Anon
I just wanted to give a gentle correction. The expression is “burn your bridges,” not britches. Please don’t take this the wrong way. I spent years saying “let’s get down to brass taxes” instead of “brass tacks,” and I wish I had known sooner.
Although you probably shouldn’t burn any britches (pants) either :)
Anon
One of DH’s favorite moments from our marriage involves this type of confusion. As background, I am a lover of words, and I would always rant to him about when people would say “chester drawers” or mix up idioms.
So, we’re driving one night, and I see a sign for a “Swap Meet.” Suddenly, I cried out, “WAIT! My life makes so much more sense! I always thought it was ‘swap m-e-a-t, and I could never figure out why in the world people would want to meet up to swap meat.” He started laughing so hard that he had to pull over and told me that “Swap Meat” would probably make an excellent porn film.
He loves breaking out that story when I start talking about “chester drawers,” now.
Coach Laura
I love these kinds of tongue-slips too. When I was a kid, I though “next door” was “next store” and couldn’t figure out why our neighbors’ houses were called stores.
One student recently wrote “He was made into an escape goat.” I laughed so hard. Then my kids were watching an episode of “The Office” where Michael Scott used the same phrase, so I don’t know now if the studen was being funny or really didn’t know “escape goat” was wrong.
I have others that I can’t remember at the moment. I think I’m going to start writing these down because they’re hilarious.
Another Sarah
Have you talked to your boss about this? He may know of other firms/companies doing the same work that need someone. But I agree – don’t ask to be laid off. You won’t get severance or unemployment because it wouldn’t be the firm’s actions.
FWIW, this happened to one of my friends, and she got laid off because no one had any other work for her. She’s currently scrambling, working a few jobs at a few places to make ends meet. I’m sure she would give her right arm to not be scrambling around.
Anonymous
I would not ask the company to lay you off, but see if he can help you. I live in a political town where elected officials, appointees, and agency executives all get their own assistants/aides, and typically it’s up to the replacement to decide whether the person stays on. I know people who have been asked to stay on and others who had to leave, but it seems too soon right now to jump the gun.
divaliscious11
I’d ask him if he may have an opening for me at his new gig in the not too distant future. I know of lots of partners who’ve left firms and taken their key associates with them. I’d stay employed as long as possible, see if you can expand your skill set, tap into your bosses network and do whatever you can until you find a new job….
C.
I’m applying for a position in a different department at my current small company. This new position would be a step up (maybe several steps up), but I’m *very* good at my current job and I have the backing of all the senior people in my department, who have been encouraging me to apply.
I know the director of the new department, and she knows I intend to apply. I still have to do a formal application through HR–should I address my cover letter “To whom it may concern,” as I would if I were an outside applicant? Or may I address it to the director herself, since she and I are on a first-name basis? May I invoke other colleagues by name when writing about my accomplishments and responsibilities at our company?
Any other suggestions on how to assuage the awkwardness of an internal application would be greatly appreciated!
Anon
I would 100% address it to her and discuss specific things you’ve done at the company. You have an advantage by being there already, so you should exploit that advantage.
Good luck!!
Tina
It sounds like this job is in the bag for you, but you don’t want to make it look like you have that attitude. I agree with the above, but I say address it to “Ms. _____” just to show that you recognize you’re writing a cover letter and not an everyday email to someone you know. This is going to end up in a permanent file, etc. I also suggest that you double-check with the superiors you’d like to mention in the letter, and confirm that you’re welcome to use their names. I’m sure you are, but it’s still best to know.
C.
Thanks to you both! Fingers crossed.
NYC
I get so many wonderful ideas from this blog, that I thought I should pass along two recent shopping reports:
1) I tried out a pair of the Ivanka Trump shoes at Nordy’s. I ordered these in the malted milk patent. http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/ivanka-trump-indico-pump/3153036?origin=category&resultback=964
Very cute, comfy shoe and great height for work. I’m returning only because I am looking for something to match my skin tone and these are too pale. They would be great for our super pale Caucasian Corporettes…I ordered my regular size and they fit.
2) I’ve gotten some great work button downs from Charles Tyrwhitt, a place where my hubby shops. You have to order them from the UK (http://www.ctshirts.com/womenswear?q=usddefault|||||||||||||||). Shipping takes a little while but is inexpensive. I’ve loved all of the button downs, and recently got one of the henleys for the weekend (so soft and good for long waists and limbs). I did not like the “smock top” but otherwise think it is a good option for affordable work shirts. Return shipping is free and they will take returns even after you wash the shirt, within 3 months. I’m an 8 or 10 and order a 10 in the button downs and M in the henley.
Happy shopping!
SF Bay Associate
I just ordered the same shoes! I am really liking her whole line (more available on Zappos than Nordie’s). I don’t think I’m as pale as Ivanka, but hopefully the shoes will work for me. I’ve tried so many “nude” shoes but have yet to find a winner. Fingers crossed.
And I have several Charles Tyrwhitt shirts – they are indeed high quality. The cashmere is also gorgeous, though I found the right size for my body a bit too short in the length for my long torso.
divaliscious11
Thanks – some of these shirts are gorgeous.
Res Ipsa
Does anyone have any infertility website/support groups they can recommend? I’ve been casually reading the message boards on The Bump, but there’s only so many acronyms and wing-dings I can take.
L
fertile-thoughts.com. It is awesome!! Great support.
Kate
The Taking Charge of Your Fertility forums are okay, though they have wingdings and acronyms too. I didn’t experience infertility myself but have somehow ended up reading lots of infertility bloggers — many of the IF blogger “matriarchs” used to frequent IVF connections, so you may like that site. I recommend checking out the Stirrup Queens blog for a list of active sites of women and men dealing with IF.
Anon DC
The Bump boards can be okay, sometimes – you can get a lot of information from some of the women – but it tends to get overly snarky, as well, so I understand your not liking it. And I went there several years ago, so I’m sure it’s gotten more annoying in the intervening years. LOL
I liked fertilityfriend.com, which I also used for charting my cycles. It was nice because then you could link to your chart on the boards you were frequenting. Good luck to you – I know how hard (and sometimes lonely) a journey through infertility issues can be. I now have 2 healthy kids, and I hope you find success soon!
A note about acronyms – I’ve found they’re pretty universal in the message board world, so you sort of have to just get used to them.
another anon
I like the advanced forum on craiglist — it is hidden but you can change the forum number to get to it-just replace the end to this: ?forumID=2228
It can be slow, but I love the nested response the craiglist provides.
ANON2L
IVF Connections. Can’t remember the new web address, so best to just google it. Good luck to you.
IVFer
For infertility support groups, check out Resolve.org (Nat’l Infertility Assoc) for a group near you. Also ask your RE (reproductive endocrinologist), they may have one. Infertility listserves do tend to be acronym heavy, LOL.
There are a lot of listserves online that focus on particular medical issues/needs, so google your medical problem(s) to find them. I belong to a private listserve where the ladies have become good friends. Stirrup Queens blogs are also a great place to start and make connections. I heard recently on my private listserve that IVF connections recently switched ownership and a lot of valuable information didn’t make the transfer.
I’m sorry that your struggling with this. Good luck and try to find a support network who are “in the trenches with you”. It helps a lot.
IVFer
your = you’re. Ugh
rg
I need some interview outfit advice. I have a somewhat unexpected interview with a fairly conservative government agency coming up. I don’t really wear suits in my current job, though I have a few that I typically wear as separates. Out of my current wardrobe, I think that I should choose either (1) a conservative black, polyester skirt suit or (2) a wool, navy pinstripe skirt suit with feminine detailing (a ruffle on the jacket). I know that black wool would be ideal, but I’ve had endless difficulty finding one (I’m extremely petite) and it would almost certainly need tailoring which I may not have time for unless I find something this weekend. Any thoughts on which of my options is best? And what should I wear underneath? I have shells in most colors, and I probably have time to buy a shell that doesn’t need tailoring if necessary.
TIA!
Anon
I’d do the black with a black shell (if the blacks match) and a pretty but conservative necklace, but I think you should wear whichever suit makes you feel more confident. Other colors I’d consider under the black would be light blue or some darker jewel tone. I personally don’t like to wear pink to interviews, and white/cream seems a little boring to me.
Kaye
Disagree on the black with black suggestion – way too funeral-like! Blue or jewel tone with black sounds lovely though.
Anon
I love black with black! My husband sometimes teases me that I look like a mime, though, so maybe it’s not so good?
a lawyer
I’m also very petite (5 feet even, less than 100 pounds), at least very short, and found good fitting suits at Ann Taylor. The Ann taylor tropical wool jacket in a 0 petite and skirtin 0 petite fit well except for shortening the sleeves. Sometimes it takes a 00 in the jacket, nd the skirt may be a tad big in the waist, but I can deal with that. Ifyou can find them, they have been on sale 40 percent off.
Good luck.
MelD
Ann Taylor outlet usually has some basic wool options with the $150 for 2 pieces, $200 for 3 going. I think fit is more important than material, so it’s probably best to go with whichever suit you have now that fits you the best. There are some polyester suits that can look quite nice, while an ill-fitting wool suit will look awful. Do not wear black under a black suit. That just makes me think of restaurant serving staff.
Lola
I think the fact that it’s polyester doesn’t make the suit a complete disaster. Although rare, there is such thing as a nice synthetic suit. If your black suit is more formal, then wear that, rather than the navy pinstripes.
Wear a shell in a solid color underneath, and a scarf if you’d like. Certainly not a black shell.
Yoganonymous
This freezing weather and too much work makes me want to sneak a post-trial week somewhere warm/relaxing. I take and enjoy a non-hard core yoga class and thought it might be fun to go on a yoga based retreat somewhere warm, if there were such things for those of us who can’t put their foot behind their ear. Has anyone gone on one they’d recommend? Places/people to avoid?
Another Anon
Have heard good things about Hawaii with Bryan Kest. Haven’t done it myself though.
Anonymous
I know one of the instructors at this school in Costa Rica: http://www.nosarayoga.com/ . I haven’t been there, but the instructor I know is amazing and he makes the school sound amazing too.
LL
Costa Rica is gorgeous and cheap!
My family took a yoga retreat at the Samasati and loved it. None of us can put our foot behind our ear, but we all felt more peaceful and better at yoga after a week with Danielle. Also, their lodgings in the middle of the rainforest are beautiful!
http://www.samasati.com/
Rainee
I am losing bunches of hair due to some medication. Changing the medication is not an option because it seems to have the least side-effects overall.
I know it is difficult to suggest hairstyles without a pic but can anyone suggest a salon in the DC/Silver Spring area where a stylist can help me?
spacegeek
Is rogaine an option? I’ve found it to be wonderful. I also really like Oscar blandis dry shampoo. I use the dark which matches my
Hair color. It nakes it harder to see my scalp through my hair in direct lighting. I feel for you and good luck!
Anonymous
Can you spend some money? The Christophe Beverly Hills salon near Farrugut Square is great (there’s a reason so many politicians, etc go there), but you’ll pay a pretty penny for the cut. Might be worth it though.
mille
I’ve spent almost all day cleaning out closets. I finally hit on a good way to go through all my clothes (of which I had way, way too many for my small closet.) I put everything on the bed and asked myself “If everything here was dirty, and I could only do one load of laundry, what would I wash?”. That really helped me decide what to keep and what to donate. I had a box full of clothes that aren’t worth the energy it takes to wash and put away that I was able to get rid of right away, and then was able to narrow down my wardrobe by two other boxes using the “load of laundry” technique.
Ruth
Great idea!
I’m a pretty broke student and when I moved last time, I had a hard time letting go of any of my stuff, not wanting to waist anything. Finally, this trick helped me: I made my boyfriend ask me regarding every single item whether we should “buy” this. More often than not, I would answer along the lines of “no way, we already have that/would never use it/it’s too shabby” etc. We finally ended up with three car loads for the Salvation Army…
D
Thanks for the tip! I really like this idea
kellyn
I’m at the point in my life where I’m seriously considering a breast reduction, but also looking down the line to having children in 5ish years.
How do I broach the topic with my GYN (…I assume she’s the best to discuss this with?) at this point, where it’s not immediate, but also not hypothetical?
As background, I have a 34H chest, plan to have more than one child (and while I’d like to do it, am not attached to solely breastfeeding all 2+ kids), and my mother did the same thing. Although, my mom went from a 34C to a 34H with ONE kid (me, sorry Mom!), but she “gets” the fact that I’m anxious to do this. My uber boobs have caused me to gain weight (buying clothes to accommodate my boobs=> I “grew into” my clothes=> gained weight!) plus my serious neck, back etc. issues…. I’m so sick of these things!
Also, how to deal with this at work? I know that there’s been some discussion about surgery on this site as it relates to work– does it apply to breast reductions, too? I know my mom said that when she went thru it, people just thought she lost a whole bunch of weight (which she did….).
HELP!
Sharon
Talk to a plastic surgeon, not your OBGYN.
mille
A plastic surgeon will be able to talk to you about the potential impact of a breast reduction on breastfeeding. Also, if you are concerned about getting one now and having to do it all over again after having kids, they should be able to advise you on that.
Personally, I would go ahead with the reduction now. Large breasts are painful and can interfere with your enjoyment of life. It’s too hard to tell what pregnancy will do to your body. I was overweight when I got pregnant and ended up losing weight while the baby grew, so in the end I was only 1 pound heavier. My milk never came in (probably due to damage from a sexual assault that happened in law school) but the weight of my breasts causes drips of milk to come out, even now, four months after giving birth. I’d love to have a reduction but am too heavy right now.
MJ
Kellyn–I have the opposite problem, but two VERY close friends have had breast reductions. One did it in college right before she did a semester abroad. Another did it during the summer b/w 1st and 2nd year at b-school. In both cases, people actually just thought that each person had lost a bunch of weight. My understanding is that it’s not very comfortable immediately after, and you will have “anchor” scars (my roommate showed me one day!), but both of them SWEAR it was the best thing they ever did. In fact, in both cases, it inspired them to get into shape that they’d never been able to be in due to difficulty with “bouncing” while exercising. One caveat–in the case of one friend, she ended up gaining some weight later and it went straight to her boobs–it didn’t negate the reduction, but made her a bit sad. However, the ST and medium term effects were all positive. In terms of doing it at work/broaching the subject, I’d just take a week off and do it. They were both so enthusiastic…I can’t imagine if you’re having other issues that you wouldn’t be glad you did it as well. Good luck!
Lola
How to deal with it at work? Take time off for a personal medical issue, and it’s no one else’s business what the medical issue is.
AnonK
Hope this isn’t too late to be helpful. Having my breast reduction is by far the best thing I’ve ever done, and I whole-heartedly recommend it to anyone and everyone who is interested. I did it in law school, and went down two cup sizes, just over the minimum needed to qualify as “medical” and get insurance coverage. In terms of timing: I did it right at the beginning of my two-week winter break. I wore loose-fitting clothes for a month ahead of the surgery and again when I came back afterward. No one noticed (not even the guy I had just started dating, until I told him). I would suggest a similar strategy: surgery right before a two-week vacation. It allows you to recover on your own time line, and the long break makes any changes less noticeable. FWIW, I will still able to breastfeed (though it was not something I was concerned about at the time, the surgeon went out of his way to preserve the option for me). I’m happy to talk more about my experience if you would find it helpful.
kellyn
Thank you all, ladies! I think I’ll do some thinking and perhaps meet with a plastic surgeon this summer (I’m taking another bar exam right now… too stressed to do it now!)
I really love that I can come here and get sound advice from women like you all. A sincere and heartfelt thank you.
In love with a pair of trousers
Does anyone have experience with Fendi trousers? I’m talking fit, sizing, quality etc.
TIA :)
E
Oh Corporetters, I just bought a pair of boots for $180ish knowing there was little if anything in my wardrobe I could wear them with (I can change!)
Is pairing soft brown leather boots with a black heel and a black suit completely out of the question? My only suits are black, navy and dark grey.
MelD
It probably depends on the brown- if it is more of a reddish brown/cordovan, then I think it would probably be fine with black. If you get too dark a brown I think it can be problematic.
E
I wouldn’t call it pale, but it’s definitely not dark enough that you’d ever mistake it for near-black.
Anonymous
I see a lot of people mixing brown and black these days, and brown and gray or brown and navy look great IMO. Since the brown boots have a black heel I say go ahead and wear them with the black too.
Elizabeth
I am a 1L who has been in the working world before, but not in as conservative a field as law. I have my first interviews for summer positions this week, and have read the material on this website about interviewing suits. What do you all think of this dress: http://www.jcrew.com/womens_category/suiting/superfinecttn/PRDOVR~34304/34304.jsp in navy with the matching blazer? I would keep the blazer on for my interviews. I tried it on and bought it at J.Crew, after having a series of disasters trying to order suits online (I live in a place without many retail stores). I think it looks great, and I got the opinion of a friend who is an attorney with the fed. government, and he also thought it was very professional. However, it is 100% cotton. The wool one in the same style just didn’t fit the same way, and actually looked a lot less professional (it didn’t lay right, in any size). My other alternative (that I already own) is a gray wool skirt-suit, but I don’t think it looks as professional as the navy.
I have tried on dozen (if not hundreds) of suits in the past few months, so while I am willing to do whatever it takes to make a good impression, I am frustrated, strapped for cash, and unsure that any suit looks good on me. I know the standard advice to go to tailor, but I’ve had the last three tailors I used ruin suits on me. I don’t know how you all do this! I have seriously considered taking a job with a less-stringent dress code, because I can’t take this anymore!
FWIW, my interviews are for government government positions.
Another Sarah
I think what you picked out is fine. I’ve heard/read that a dress suit (like what you picked out) is a half-step less formal than a full suit (skirt-button down-blazer), but IMO it’s fine. Cotton is a less formal fabric than wool is, but I think if you have appropriate shoes/accessories, it should be fine. But what about the skirt or the pants that are included in the collection? And why don’t you think the suit you already have looks as professional?
How did the tailors ruin your previous suits? And what kind of tailor did you to go (the person in your dry cleaners? A dedicated tailor?)?
Elizabeth
Thanks for your feedback!
I did try on the skirt suit, but it just didn’t look right. I had the same problem with it as I have with my gray suit. Although I am an average size (usually an 8, sometimes a 6 or 10), I have an exaggerated hourglass figure, with a MUCH smaller waist but lots of curves (butt, hips, thighs, chest- basically in every direction). I find that skirts in any non-stretch fabric, no matter how they are cut, tend to ride up after walking only a few steps, or worse, after sitting down and standing up. I have to hold my skirt down to keep it from becoming a belt! Buying them on the big side doesn’t help either, the angles on my body just encourage them to inch up. I’ve gone so far as to try to put coins in my skirt hems to weigh them down, but that causes its own set of issues! Sizing down helps some, since there is less movement, but then it looks like I am trying to show off my body, and I have heard enough whispers behind my back to know that is not the look I want to give off for an interview. On the top half, fabric also tends to just migrate towards the middle. I am not opposed to looking bigger than I am and do not feel like I have to have form-fitting clothes, but it looks sloppy to have lots of extra fabric rippling around my waist when I sit, especially if my skirt needs to be smaller to stay on.
I have gone to reputable tailors both in dry cleaners and who work on their own. What they can do is make the clothes closer to the shape of my body, which would be great for going out, but somehow just never works for professional attire. I suppose they’ve done their job well- the clothes do fit. But making a pencil skirt sit right on me (and stay on!) involves taking it in under the booty, and keeping it fitted. I find it just gives off a much more va-va-voom vibe than I am comfortable in a work setting. With jackets, the lapels just never lay right once they’ve been taken in to fit me appropriately.
For whatever reason, this dress just worked. I think it’s because the fabric is a little stretchy but also a bit stiff, so it’s secured around my waist which keeps it from riding up. I did try it with a white button-down underneath (think jumper style), and with the jacket over on it looks almost like I am wearing a skirt suit.
MelD
Is there a reason why you are opposed to pantsuits? It sounds like they may be the best bet for you if skirts don’t work well.
Elizabeth
I thought that a pant suit is considered more casual? Our Career Services office explicitly instructed that for courts and more conservative positions, a skirt is all but a requirement. I guess I assumed a dress is closer to a skirt than a pantsuit.
JessC
There are SOME lawyers/judges who think a female lawyer should only be wearing a skirt. They do exist, but they are few and far between. The general advice is to wear a skirt so as not to risk possibly offending one of these types. But if skirts are really that much of a problem for you, just wear the pants – you’ll be far more comfortable and confident in your appearance if you don’t have to worry about giving off the wrong image.
As far as tailoring a pencil skirt, have you tried not taking it in under the behind. If it’s being taken in too much to the point that it’s very fitted/tight then that might be what’s causing the skirt to ride up. If there’s a little more room around the legs, it shouldn’t be ridding up. Maybe try getting a skirt that fits through the hip/thighs, taking in the waist, and not taking in (or only taking in a very little) under the behind?
Another point on tailoring – while a good tailor can be worth his/her weight in gold, you still need to make sure you’re speaking up about what you want. If the tailor starts taking in too much fabric, let them know exactly what you want. When they’ve got the skirt pinned and marked for tailoring, try walking around in it and see how it feels.
MelD
I agree with JessC that it’s far better to feel comfortable and confident than it is to wear a skirt to avoid offending a very, very small proportion of judges and employers. It’s also more important to have a good fit to whatever suit you wear. If you find that a skirt suit just looks too sexy, that’s something you want to avoid. The skirt should not ride up if it is snug on the waist and looser through the hips. If the tailor is taking it in under the butt so it won’t ride up, it probably means the skirt is still too tight through the hips.
Arachna
While there are a small minority of older lawyers who think women should be wearing skirt suits to a formal occasion there are also a small minority of lawyers who think pants look more professional than skirts. Basically you can drive yourself crazy wtih this. A pants suit and a skirt suit are both perfectly appropriate. If the pants work better on your shape, wear the pants.
I think the dress would be okay but the pants suit would be safer.
coco
What about putting a shirt over the top of the dress? I’m envisioning something like a knit shell. It might make the dress ride up, so I would try it beforehand, but that would give you the look of a skirt suit.
It is a beautiful dress and I think you would be fine not covering it, but that might be a way to get the look you want.
Anonymous
You need to buy a skirt that fits your hips and get it tailored around the waist. But you’re right, it’s hard to find a tailor that can do it properly and frustrating when they ruin your skirt.
Don’t do the jumper style for an interview. I like that look too, but it’s not a conservative interview look.
Another Sarah
I have the same issue. Don’t size down, size UP, and get it taken in where you need it. It won’t ride up if it hangs correctly. I also normally wear a 10, but I need to get a 12 or 14 in suiting skirts and pants and get it taken in so that it hangs right.
I agree that you need to make yourself clear to the tailors what you want. From what you said, it sounded like the tailors did their best to fix the problem you had (skirts riding up).
Anonymous
I think this is fine, but with the ruched neckline it’s not the most conservative option, and since it’s sleeveless you probably wouldn’t be comfortable taking your jacket off if you get hot. Since you already own a very conservative suit (the gray wool skirt suit), though, I say go ahead and buy the dress and blazer. It’s good to have more than one option of what to wear, and the dress suit will display a bit more of your personal style. If you ever feel that you need to be at your most conservative, you can just go ahead and wear the gray suit.
Samantha
A pantsuit is more conservative than a dress suit in my experience, especially for interviews if your interviewer happens to be a man (since many men do not know the concept of dress suits).
Michelle
didn’t see the blazer in the link but the dress looks fine to me, and if cotton is climate appropriate I think it is fine. I agree with other commentors that the key is to get something that fits your biggest dimension and then tailor it to fit where it’s too big, bearing in mind that too loose is better than too tight in this arena – it may be helpful to remember that the conservative, professional clothes you want here won’t fit the same as your social outfits, I am not sure how “flattering” a fit you might be looking for but that could be part of the problem. And, for what it’s worth, I think pantsuits are fine in this context.
Anonymous
I got my first job as a lawyer in a rayon black suit that I bought at a garage sale. If you are strapped for cash, don’t make yourself crazy!
Annie
(Sorry if this ends up double posting, I got the error that I was “posting too fast” the first time)
I have a couple of these J.Crew dresses (both the cotton and wool, in navy, black, and gray) and I’ll add that they wrinkle like crazy. I always get lines across my stomach and hips from where the dress bunches when I sit. It’s easier to hide in a darker material, but my black dress is really the only one that I don’t feel like I need to keep a steamer in my office.
I also think the dresses fall a bit short on me that I wouldn’t wear them to an interview. I’m 5’8″ though, so that may not be a problem for you (especially if you’ve already tried it on). If you haven’t already, I would just suggest that you practice sitting down in it to see how short it ends up–dresses like that tend to ride up on an hourglass figure when you sit (which is why I always end up with so much bunched material at my waist causing wrinkles).
C
I have the same wrinkle problems w/ their pants suits.
Lola
I don’t think the dress in navy and matching suit jacket would be inappropriate. I also agree with the other posters that, while a skirt would probably be encouraged, a pant suit would really be ok.
(And good on you for not wanting to be so va-va-voom. I wish there were more law students that had that attitude.)
BRG
It is so cold today and I need a really warm winter jacket that I can use on weekends. I really don’t want to wear my navy blue wool coat around town on the weekends, and besides, it is not all that warm anyway.
Can anyone suggest a casual — But superwarm — casual coat I can get to use about town on weekends? I am not particularly concerned about fashion as much as I am to be warm.
I am willing to pay $200 or so as long as it’s warm.
coco
I just order this coat from LL Bean. I’m allergic to down, so it was tough finding something that was warm (I’m in New England) yet down-free. I have been very impressed with it so far. It is not particularly attractive – I kinda feel like a long rectangle – but with all the recent snow, I really didn’t care. I tried on both the red and the blue (it was more turquoise), and kept the red in a size down.
http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/51489?feat=504728-GN2
I also tried on this coat. It had much more a shape and was incredibly light. It seemed to be as warm, but I went for the LL Bean one because it was much cheaper, so I can’t really say. It was also not as long, and I have really loved that feature on my coat.
http://www.backcountry.com/marmot-metro-coat-womens
If you go to LL Bean or Land’s End, they allow you to select a coat based on warmth and offer warmth rating, which I found very helpful. If you don’t need to avoid down, there are many more options out there.
Nita47
It was about 20 degrees F this morning, so I pulled out an old down jacket and couldn’t help noticing it’s warmer and more comfortable than my newer wool or Polartec coats. If you can tolerate the puffy silhouette, goose down is great.
Lola
Down coats are really the way to go. They are super-warm, and the newer ones aren’t very bulky.
Anonymous
I have an LL Bean down coat that’s lasted 4 years so far and is still going strong. Highly recommend. Lands End, Patagonia and Marmot are other good brands. I’d suggest getting at least 650 fill down if you want to be snuggly warm, and make sure the coat has a hood so that you can have continuous coverage across the back of your neck to your head and face – that’s crucial for staying warm.
jackie
Okay, this is beyond a thread hijack but i’m afraid to ask my friends IRL about this, and this seems like a pretty supportive community. I just looked at the cookies on my husband’s computer (I know I should not have done this – I have to stop myself from snooping) and this cookie called “gay.fleshbot.com” or something like that. I’m really freaked out. You would have to have actively visit a site for the cookie to show up, right? Thanks so much in advance for any insight on this.
Elizabeth
From what I understand, when guys go on any porn site, all sorts of garbage will make its way onto your computer (recent downloads, cookies, etc). If you have any other reason to think he might be gay, or if there is a conspicuous absence of straight porn, talk to him about it. I suspect it’s nothing, though (especially if it was in the midst of other porn websites).
Anonymous
Fleshbot is part of the Gawker family of sites and sometimes other Gawker sites (Gawker, Deadspin, Lifehacker, I09, Jezebel, Gizmodo, etc) crosspost Fleshbot posts. So he could have been reading one of those sites and just clicked on a Fleshbot post. Plus Fleshbot is a blog, not a real porn site. If the only porn-related cookie he has is Fleshbot I wouldn’t worry about this at all.
Now stop snooping before you drive yourself crazy worrying about nothing. :)
Anon
Definitely stop snooping. My husband went through my text messages one time (we were having some issues), found something that was completely innocuous but sounded bad out of context, and freaked out. It really hurt our marriage bc he didn’t know if he could trust me and I was beyond hurt and angry that he snooped.
S
I went on Jezebel yesterday and accidentally ended up clicking on something (mild/partial nudity in the pic attached to article, but fairly harmless article) that took me to Fleshbot – a blog, where posts are tagged gay or straight. So your husband need not even have been visiting porn sites (leave alone gay porn) for the cookie to show up. It’s probably in my computer too. Ignore.
v
I hate the way Jezebel links to Fleshbot posts with no warning. I can’t be the only one who reads the blog from work.
jackie
Thanks so much, everyone. You’re very kind to weigh in and respond and Anonymous (and Anon!), you are so right — no more snooping.
I just heard a story on NPR on research on female bullying in the workplace and womens’ tendency to put each other down- it was really depressing. Not to be cheesy, but this whole exchange, and everyone’s taking the time to reassure a random fellow lady on the internet, is a nice counterweight to such notions. Unless you’re all guys. And I really don’t think that’s the case. :)
jackie
Thank you so much, Elizabeth! That was kind of you to respond right away. No, there was definitely straight porn on there. I was fearing he was bisexual or something, but it was based entirely on this cookie. Which I realize is really irrational. Thank you for your insight. :)
Elizabeth
You’re welcome! My boyfriend has finally caught onto me and now clears his computer regularly (not sure if this is better or worse…) but I totally understand.
E
FWIW, my partner is bisexual, and we’re comfortably monagamous and planning our future together.
It sounds like from what everybody is saying that your husband wasn’t looking at gay porn, but bisexuality isn’t the end of the world.
Ci
For some people it would be though, so her concern and worry is understandable (not that bisexuality itself is the problem, but I could never be with a bisexual man for instance, its a personal choice)
E
No doubt some people would immediately break up a marriage under those circumstances and be 100% certain they were making the only decision possible.
Others might be concerned and worried but want to make it through.
Anonymous
I don’t think the issue is the bisexuality so much as the fact that she thought she discovered it because of his secret porn habits (and not him openly telling her).
jackie
Oh man, that’s hilarious. It’s probably better that he clears it — though you’re clearly a lot more sensible than me, it still seems better not to even be tempted to look. If there are issues, they’ll probably surface in real life rather than on internet history — see you’ve already taught me well!
jackie
Oh! Incidentally, I just looked at your question. That dress is lovely, and looks entirely professional. However, I wanted to respond to your worry about pantsuits — for what it’s worth, I wore pantsuits for two different clerking positions through law school and for my current associate position, and I did get offers for all three. However, I did not get an offer for another associate job for which I interviewed last fall, and I wore a pantsuit for that as well – who knows if that was a factor.
Julie
Threadjack, if you don’t mind..
Is a skinny-ish dress pant (in black) to trendy to wear w/a blazer to a conservative office?
I’ve returned to work after a few years away and — for better or worse — obtained most of my dark-colored, conservative suit pieces at Express (even though I’ve seen them referred to here as ‘internwear’! [yikes] :-)). The mix-match sizes really work for me and I can’t wear things from Banana, J Crew, etc. for size reasons.
I recently ordered some dress pants from Express that are more on the skinny side than the bootcut I’ve worn previously. Is this too close to clubwear?? Thanks for any thoughts.
Elizabeth
Without knowing what industry your is or how conservative your colleagues dress, I suspect that, yes, those pants are too close to clubwear. Express fits me better than J.Crew, also, but 99.9% of what I’ve seen there is far from work appropriate. The exceptions that I’ve seen have been the more traditional straight-leg or wide-leg pants (I think they’re called the editor). Even then, their navy and grays look better than the black, which always look a little shiny to me.
Anonymous
Skinny pants are fine if you don’t look super sexy in them. It really depends on your body shape and the particular pair of pants.
Samantha
Depends on your workplace but I work in a business casual environment (no suits, but formal pants/skirts and tops or shirts, even polos for men are ok) and skinny pants are a definite no-no in my workplace.
Julie
link to pants:
http://reviews.express.com/6549/P-28683/studio-stretch-columnist-pant-express-reviews/reviews.htm
probably — ‘when in doubt, don’t’ — but just curious what the other fashion-conscious, conservative-field ladies thought!
lawyerette
I think those are a no, unless you’re buying 2 sizes too big (and then they probably just look bad). Check out the description of them, that should tell you everything you need to know: “Turn heads. Create headlines. The Columnist pant stands out with a sexy silhouette and a modern, just below the waist fit. “
MelD
It might be okay with a longer sweater or tunic, but I don’t think it would work with a blazer. If you do decide to wear it to work, I’d try it on a casual Friday first and see how that goes over. Personally, I would probably not feel comfortable wearing it during the rest of the week, but I wear skinny pants/jeans on Fridays fairly regularly.
Michelle
(a) I love them, but
(b) not for work.
I think especially not with a blazer, but great with a tunic or boyfriend cardigan on casual days
Violet
I think they only work if you have a really tiny and slender frame. Otherwise, if you have curves (hips, butt, thicker thighs), they will be skintight, making them inappropriate for the office.
For the record, I’ve bought that style in two colors and worn it to the office w/o any fuss.
Nita47
Any suggestions for business wear in cold weather? I find the year-round weight wool suits at BR/AT too thin. J Crew HAD a wool flannel dress ( http://www.jcrew.com/womens_category/suiting/woolflannel/PRDOVR~33587/33587.jsp ) which is sold out. Thanks.
Kady
BR has a winter-weight flannel which I have had very good experience with (btw, I chill very easily). I’m totally relying on them to get through the next two near-zero days.
Anonymous
I wear knee socks under pants. My coat comes down to my knees so I don’t need a full extra layer, but the knee socks keep my calves warmer when I’m outside.
anon in chicago
have you tried layering thin camis or slips under your dresses/suits? it gets pretty cold where i am in the winter, but sometimes putting an extra layer (even if it’s thin) under everything really helps me stay warm.
anon in chicago
oh also tights under pants, or two pairs of tights at the same time if in a dress, can be a real lifesaver!
Bonnie
I wear most of my suits year-round but layer much more in the winter. For skirt suits, I add tights, boots and thin sweaters or sweater vests. If it’s really cold, I’ll add a cami. Sweater vests are great for layering because they add warmth without bulkiness.
Anon
Hello – I am involved in a local (think city-local) bar association with an aging attorney membership (think a lot of men, and a few women, over 50). We are looking for ideas for events, benefits, etc., that might entice newer/younger attorneys to join. This is in the Northeast. Has anyone had experience with similar efforts that have been successful? Social media? Types of events? Thanks so much in advance for the input!
Lola
Happy hours with open bar. Advertise that it’s for “young professionals.” That’s how the folks in my city get young lawyers to their events. And post in the courthouse to get the law clerks. Our local bar association would be an empty shell without the law clerks.
Anon
Second the happy hour suggestion. That’s what our young lawyers division focuses on and it’s pretty successful. The younger lawyers are usually much more likely to want to hang out in bars to meet people and free or reduced drinks are a huge motivator. From there you can usually get a core group together to do more involved things such as lunches or service projects.
anon
Do you have a young lawyers section? If not, you could put out the word that you’re looking for young lawyers to lead a new section, or invite a few young lawyers to your existing board. Then the “young lawyers section” could host events for the entire membership.