ByKat Hours Updated
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Weekend Open Thread

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Frye – Dannika Campus (Black) – FootwearSomething on your mind? Chat about it here. Zappos seems to have a number of sales on Frye boots right now, for some reason. Case in point: this simple, classic pair of tall black boots (also available, for full price, in brown). Whether tall boots are appropriate in your workplace or not, they are a staple of most women's closets — and Frye boots are renowned for their comfort. These were $348, now marked to $208.80 at Zappos. Frye – Dannika Campus (Black) – Footwear P.S. – I forgot to mention this, but I'll be live-blogging the Oscars for a bit tonight — check out the @Corporette Twitter feed!

Sales of note for 1/22/25:

  • Nordstrom – Cashmere on sale; AllSaints, Free People, Nike, Tory Burch, and Vince up to 60%; beauty deals up to 25% off
  • AllSaints – Clearance event, now up to 70% off (some of the best leather jackets!)
  • Ann Taylor – All sale dresses $40 (ends 1/23)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything
  • Boden – Clearance, up to 60% off!
  • DeMellier – Final reductions now on, free shipping and returns — includes select options like Montreal, Vancouver, and Venice
  • Eloquii – $29 and up select styles; extra 50% off all clearance, plus ELOQUII X kate spade new york collab just dropped
  • Everlane – Sale of the year, up to 70% off; new markdowns just added
  • J.Crew – Up to 40% off select styles; up to 50% off cashmere
  • J.Crew Factory – End of season sale, extra 60-70% off clearance, online only
  • Rothy's – Final Few: Up to 40% off last-chance styles
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – Semi-Annual Red Door Sale – extra 50% off

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

287 Comments

  1. Has anyone had suits/clothing made by Tom James? Any reviews, comments, thoughts?

    2. I have and was not that impressed. They don’t seem to have a good grasp of the female body. I worked with three different sales reps (I moved to a new city while having clothes made) and didn’t think that the suggestions they made on worked with my body. When I asked things to be redone, they never seemed to come back the way I wanted. Buy off the rack and have things tailored!

    3. My husband had suits made by Tom James, and they did not last very long (less than 1 year each). Also, I felt like they didn’t do a very good job measuring his body – the jackets were super long on him. But the pants did fit nicely, and there were some nice details (colorful linings in the jackets, nicer buttons, etc).

      I second LALaw – buy clothes and get them tailored. My tailor does a fantastic job, and the end result is much less expensive than Tom James. Just make sure to buy clothes that have adequate seam allowances, or buy up a size instead of down.

    4. One of my friends and colleagues just ordered a suit from Tom James. I’ll report back on her experience once she gets it.

      1. Thanks everyone! I did do a site search, and it looked like there were some mixed opinions but most of the input was not so recent, so I thought I’d ask again.

  2. Any San Diego Corporettes interested in getting together for a happy hour sometime? I’m new to the area and would love to meet new people!

    1. I clicked over to your blog and realized we’re law school classmates. I’m not in SD, but wanted to say hi! :)

        1. Yep. I am Jewish. We were friends. I’m sure you know me now. Hi Maya! I will bookmark your blog.

          1. I went to law school with Maya, and I can only remember two Jewish girls in our class. They’re both now Catholic. This isn’t adding up.

          2. @seebo – your math must be off. I know you too. I am sure you two will figure it out, but I’m not going to out myself here.

  4. Must I have an average sized foot?? No boots for me. Good news is I’m not spending $200 on boots when it’s pretty much springtime here.

    1. I am also not in the market for boots right now. But if I were, I would definitely give these a serious look.

      I wonder if they will fit my athletic calves.

      1. They would! I bought them in brown from Amazon last week (more sizes there too, check it out) and they fit over my rather large calves — I usually never buy below a 15″ circumference, but these were fine.

        Be warned that because they don’t have a zipper, they’re a pain in the butt to get on. I think that will improve as the leather wears, but even now it’s worth it to me for the quality and the style.

          1. Ok c2, my earlier post now needs to be amended. I bought the boots on Amazon. $213 on black boots just in time for spring.

  5. Can we talk maternity clothes? I’m only 11 weeks along but starting my search because I’m afraid it’s going to be difficult. I’m 6′ tall and typically wear a size 8 with a 36″ inseam. I’m not showing yet, but once I do, I’m hoping I can get away with wearing my regular pants with a band for several months. I don’t want to spend a lot on clothes I won’t wear very much, and fortunately I’m a judicial clerk in state court and can wear business casual all the time. So I won’t need any suits.

    I’m looking for any advice. Ideas of where to shop? Ideas of non-maternity clothes that will work? I’m thinking a cardigan that doesn’t button with a tank top or t-shirt underneath would work. Ideas of what to wear or what not to wear? I’ve heard that maternity clothes actually make you look bigger. It’s so hard to shop for clothes when I have no idea what I’m going to look like! Any other general advice would be appreciated as well. This is my first, so I don’t know what to expect. Thanks!

    1. Before spending a wad of cash at Motherhood or Pea in the Pod, try looking for maternity consignment stores in your area. I spent about $70 on a dozen shirts and slacks for my second pregnancy. Also, lucky for you your pregnancy will go through spring, and I found dresses to be comfortable and a good work option.

      I also wouldn’t buy a lot now, as I found some of the earlier clothes I purchased didn’t fit my boobs by the last few months.

      As far as what not to wear, I wouldn’t worry about it too much. Pregnant women get a little leeway for clothes one might otherwise never wear if not expecting.

      Best of luck on your pregnancy!

    2. I second the suggestion to not buy a lot at first and see how your body changes, and also to look at maternity consignment shops, craigslist, ebay, etc.

      Also consider buying some clothes one or two sizes up from your normal size for this in-between stage, especially skirts with elastic waistbands, dresses with empire waists, tunic-y shirts, etc., all of which can be a bit forgiving.

      The regular-pants-unbuttoned-plus-band thing only worked for me for a few weeks, but I “popped out” earlier than some people (even though this is my first baby). After a while it got really old trying to be professional while wearing my pants fully unbuttoned and unzipped with a band over that and a long sweater or shirt to cover everything. I felt like my outfit was put together with chewing gum and pulleys. Once I got proper maternity clothes I realized I felt a lot better about my changing body. A girlfriend of mine stayed at the stage where you could still use the Bella Band or something similar for weeks, however, so it will depend on your body type. You’re very tall (I’m very short) so you may show less in the early months.

      I was hugely disappointed by Pea in the Pod and its sister shops — I found mostly poor quality fabrics in bad cuts that were hugely expensive. I had much more luck at Gap. I also ordered some cute things from Ann Taylor Loft, which has a good selection of work-appropriate stuff. Nordstrom online and Nordstrom Rack online also had some good things. H&M also has maternity wear at certain stores for CHEAP, though probably not a lot that would qualify as business casual. Old Navy has stuff also, though I haven’t ordered from them and imagine their quality might be a little lacking.

      For a splurge on one or two things, check out some online maternity boutiques (figure8maternity.com is one I liked, but there are tons). Isabella Oliver also has some very nice clothes but they are expensive. The couple things I bought from her fit me very well, though, and I feel great in them.

      As you get bigger also think about what type of pants you like. Some women only want the “under-belly” style that has some elastic in the waist and sits very low, but I find those slide down on me too much. I prefer the “full-panel” style that has soft fabric at the top that goes over your whole stomach. They just stay up on me much better, but every woman carries differently. There’s also “demi-panel” which is between the two, which I also don’t like. You’ll just need a couple pairs of pants for work, so buy slowly. I have three — one pair by Olian (a great maternity brand) that I have in gray and black, and then a third pair in black by Noppies.

      Depending on your climate, you might also want to get a pair of maternity tights for the remaining cooler months for under dresses.

      Above all, don’t sweat this part too much. I was all worked up about getting a work-appropriate maternity wardrobe quickly once my old clothes got too small, but you actually don’t need that many pieces and you’ll soon move on to a million more worries and things to do.

      Congrats and good luck!

    3. Congratulations!

      Check EBay for bundles of maternity clothing. I bought two lots (with several tops and bottoms) for about $40 each and that gave me a wardrobe that got me through most of my pregnancy.

      I wore a lot of dresses so I could look polished but be really comfortable (jersey dresses felt like pajamas!). Up until six or seven months, I could get away with empire-waisted non-maternity dresses, but after that they didn’t hang right — my stomach would pull them forward so they were tight on my butt. I got a few maternity dresses from a Macy’s Motherhood Maternity on sale.

      Spanx makes makes maternity tights and hose that sell at Target. They cost about $18 per pair, but I had just two pairs in heavy rotation and they held up wonderfully.

    4. Not pregnant and never have been, but I did see that Boden recently introduced some maternity clothing. I’m sure it’s pricey, but if you wait for one of those 20% off deals, it may not be too bad.

    5. Target and Old Navy also now have quite a bit of inexpensive maternity clothes, and unlike many maternity places, they have a good return policy. I found having 2 pair of black pants (one for flats and one for heels) and a pair of grey pants (probably for flats) mixed and matched with various tops got me through much of both pregnancies.

      For tops, you can get a couple button downs, a number of cute t-shirts (motherhood had a bunch of colors with cute rouching that i could wear with everything and always made me feel good about my ever-widening self) and maybe a sweater or two depending on the weather. Then as you suggest, wear cardigans open, a blazer open etc, which helps finish off the outfit. As much as I didnt want to some mornings, I found that the more I could make myself get dressed and put together, the better I ultimatley felt about myself all day long.

      I also second the idea of dresses. I didnt have any for my first pregnancy, but had 3 or 4 for my second and they were fantastic.

    6. Congratulations! I wear the same size as you, and yes, finding nice maternity work pants was impossible. However, you can get away with the bella band and your regular pants for a long time (I was wearing my regular pants up until my seventh month). Just wear longer maternity tops to hide the bella band. After that, I wore mostly maternity dresses and skirts – I found these to be much more comfortable than pants anyway, and I got them mainly from Gap, Loft, Old Navy, etc. Nordstrom has a lot of maternity stuff, too, but I found it hard to spend money on something you’re not gonna wear for more than a couple months. For court, I would wear cardigans with my maternity dresses. It’s kinda fun to do maternity clothes shopping – you get a whole new mini wardrobe!

      1. While I am usually loath to borrow clothes from other people, ask around if you know anyone who has had a baby in the past few years. Even people who were much smaller/shorter/bigger/taller than me had pieces I could wear. You friends and neighbors will probably be delighted to pass maternity clothes along (especially the work clothes – those don’t wear out like jeans).

        Don’t feel like you have to rush right out and clear out a maternity store. This is my second time around, and this time, I was able to get away with a lot of nonmaternity stuff until quite recently (sixth month, and I’m not some tiny little thing). I do like the Bella Band for support (or its cheaper Target alternative), and have worn a lot of cardigans, unbuttoned blazers, etc. to my business casual office.

    7. My advice is get some basics that are maternity- if you have friends who can help that’s a great place to start. BUy a good pair maternity jeans you will wear them everywhere. Also- as you start busting out of some of your regular clothes get some larger size thingsthat you can wear until you really pop (I.e. I’m an 8 or a 10 normally, I bought some 12’s and 14 ‘s ) trust me, you’ll wear them post-baby as you transition back to work too. The nice thing is you can usually catch some end of season sales for great clothes a little larger and when you need them post-baby it will be the right season again. Finally once you have “popped” (Usually about week 28-30 for me, but a little later w/ your 1st pregnancy) the jersey wrap dress is your friend, I happened to catch a great sale at TJ-Maxx for my 2nd pregnancy and caught 4-5 great dresses in my normal size and I still have them all. For pants etc. you eventually have to wear maternity, but to the extent you can find regular clothes that are in forgiving fabrics I highly recommend them, especially if you are thinking you will have more than one child.

    8. I’d second checking out consignment stores –many regular ones have a maternity section. Also, once the word gets out, sometimes other ladies in the field can loan you stuff. Also craigslist, perhaps? Agree that it’s financially better to avoid buying retail for something you’ll only wear a few months!

    9. I had my son in Oct in Las Vegas — that summer I lived in Empire Waist Dresses with flipflops (at home) and real shoes for the office with a jacket. Good luck.

    10. Maternity clothes are generally shapeless because women all carry the baby differently, so the clothes have to fit the biggest baby bumps. My suggestion is to get a pair of regular black pants one size up, a black cardigan one size up, and a few cheap basics from resale (ebay is fabulous for this). I wouldn’t shop for any new maternity clothes until you need them. You don’t know what your body will do. I also found that clients and judges were happy to see me wear cute maternity tops because they could share in the excitement of the baby.

      I started out my pregnancy overweight and, at delivery, only weighed one pound more than before I got pregnant. I lost weight because I ate better and took better care of myself. My tummy got bigger, thighs and butt got smaller, and I ended up not changing sizes much at all. A few pairs of black maternity pants with the full panel fabric over the stomach and two black maternity cardigans got me through all work situations during my last few months. I didn’t wear a lot of dresses, but when I did I used a knee-length pair of Spanks that went over my tummy (don’t know the style name). I bought the spanks too big so they weren’t tight, but they stopped my thighs from rubbing together.

      The biggest problem I had was shoes. My feet got wide, and finding wide-width shoes was hard. Even Zappos has only a very limited selection. During my last month I wore Minnetonka moccasins every day. Payless shoes have a lot of wide-width styles as well.

    11. I ended up buying a size or two larger for most things except for a few pairs of pants and jeans. Another style that worked well for me, especially towards the end when I had a much larger belly, was a maternity t-shirt and regular sized cardigan or jackets left open. I also agree that consignment sales and borrowing from friends is essential. Also, I know you don’t want to think about it but having clothes a size or two larger than what you normally wear is also good for after the baby. You are tired of maternity clothes by then but you still need a few clothes to wear.

      I also did good at places like TJ Maxx and Marshalls. I wore several empire waist dresses and shirts from there.

      1. I am currently 12 weeks pregnant also and I am not showing one bit. I’m hoping to get away with regular clothes until May or June and then pants with a belly band and shirts 1-2 sizes up from my regular size (I’m a small to begin with) until the end of June/July. Am I being way too optimistic about not needing full-on maternity clothes until 7-8-9 months?

        1. Not necessarily. My mom was a professor when she got pregnant with my sister (who’s the eldest), and when she announced to her students that she was going on maternity leave at 6 months, they were shocked because no one could tell – her bump was still small enough that her regular clothes hid it pretty well. My mom’s really skinny; I was the biggest baby at 6 pounds. We were all perfectly healthy – just small, so lucky mom! I think it just really depends on the person.

        2. Not necessarily, but maternity pants are really comfortable and the tops are long enough to cover your belly, so don’t feel like you must resist!

    12. Try ebay as well, I found a lot there. Had good experience with the Japanese weekend and olian brands, gap isn’t bad either.

  6. Speaking of Corporette meet-ups…

    Suze and I were discussing (over at my blog) the fact that a Tampa Bay meet-up needs to happen. Before anything concrete gets scheduled, I’d like to get some opinions from the bay area corporettes. Specifically (1) do you have any specific ideas for places to meet and (2) what night of the week would you all prefer to meet?

    For my part:
    (1) My suggestions are either Taps if we want to do something in downtown or Bar Louie if we want to do something in the Westshore area.
    (2) Either a Thursday or Friday at like 6ish.

    Thoughts??

    1. Oh please Bar Louie! I love being able to walk home after a night of fun- those in Hyde Park/SoHo shouldn’t get all the fun!

      I also adore Datz, and that new place on Dale Mabry- Brick House- has a delicious potato soup that I keep meaning to have again before it gets too warm out.

    2. Fun. I’m here too and didn’t realize there were other Bay area folks following Kat’s blog:)

    3. Yay Jess C! I like Taps a lot but I’d go to any of the places mentioned. And I vote for a Thurs 6’ish – would be perfect for me anyway! Let’s do it.

  8. Just wanted to let everyone know that I successfully shrunk my wool coat (it got too big for me). I just ran in the washing machine and stuck it in the dryer. It’s great. My only regret is keeping it in the dryer just a little too long. This weekend, I’m going to flip the coat inside out and iron the lining so that it doesn’t poke out at the sleeves. If that doesn’t work, then I’m going to sew the lining back.

    1. Do you think this would work with wool pants? I am down 35 lbs/2 sizes, and all of my pants are too big, but I am still losing (I would like to lose at least 30 more) and I don’t want to buy new ones yet. I am afraid of having them end up too short though.

      1. I believe pants fabric is laid out in a way so it mostly stretches / shrinks along the length… are there any seamstresses around here?

      2. I would take them to a tailor before trying to shrink them! It’ll probably cost you $30-$40, and a good tailor might even be able to answer your question about whether they’ll shrink in the dryer the right way.

        And congratulations!

      3. No help, just commiseration/cocelebration. I’ve lost about 40lbs recently (still plennnnnnnnty to go!) and all of my clothes are too big. The skirt I packed in my bag this morning *literally* fell off of me as I was walking out of the gym. And the pants I had taken in a month and a half ago already look too baggy. I know it’s a my-diamond-shoes-are-too-tight thing to complain about, but having clothing that’s too big just makes me look terrible and sloppy. I need to hurry up and get down to my goal weight so I can have properly fitting clothes again.

      4. Find a Talbots outlet store. After losing 40 lbs this year, my tailor told me she “just can’t do it. There’s too much fabric.” when I took clothes in to be tailore. At Talbots outlet I got some nice pants for $7-10 each and jackets for $30-40. I was able to put together a functional interim wardrobe for work. I’ll make more substantial investments when I can afford to add more pieces.

        1. The Talbots outlet in my area just closed, so I’m in mourning. If they don’t open a new one locally, I’m going to have to go to the Bay area one on my next trip.

      5. I wouldn’t risk the pants. My sleeves are a tad bit shorter than I wanted them to be but it’s no big deal since I usually wear a sweater underneath my coat anyway.

      1. Evening of Thursday, March 3, or Friday, March 4? What works better for all you DC ladies? Any favorite destinations? I think Vapiano’s works well for these types of events, but am open to anything!

      1. Sad! I’ll be travelling for work (thanks Corporettes for helping me with outfit ideas!) that weekend!!

    4. I would love to go to the DC meet up but honestly I am not sure I want to reveal my identity just yet. Anybody else have that issue/fear?

      I guess it’s just because you never know who you might meet/what you might say that could somehow come back to bite you, were your Corporette handle associated with your name. One example of this- recently on the WSJ, I saw a comment in a story that was retelling a VERY unique story told on Corporette, so it had to be the same person. The WSJ commenter left her full name (imagine she is registered reader) and had I really wanted to, I could have come back to this site, tracked the name used on the identifying post, followed that person around on Corporette, etc…. obviously I am not a creepo, but again, you just never know who is out there.

      I’d love to go, but I’m just oddly paranoid. :(

      1. When I go to a meet up, I don’t plan on sharing what my corporette handle is. Plus I post under multiple handles to avoid the kind of creeping you just mentioned.

  10. PSA: I will never buy another pair of NINE WEST shoes again. I have Nine West shoes that are ten years old and in good condition. The few pair that I purchases within the past year (and rarely wear) are falling apart.

    1. Thanks for posting. I was planning on buying Nine West to replace my old ones, which are amazing. Won’t bother now.

    3. I don’t know about their shoes but I bought a handbag there and it broke after only a few months. I would just stay away from the brand unless it is on sale.

    4. I bought a pair six months ago and wear them at least twice a week and they still look brand new. I only wear them inside the office though, but I’ve always had good luck with all my Nine West shoes, whether bought this year or six years ago.

  11. Is there a such thing as a cute backpack for my laptop? I have to walk a lot with it and my shoulder is killing me so I think I have to suck it up and get a backpack. Any suggestions for one that won’t make me like like I’m 12?

      1. Do rolling bags really help your shoulder? One arm is still going to be stuck behind you, pulling the darn thing, and then you have to lug it up stairs and carry it if the ground isn’t smooth enough. I tried one briefly after an appendectomy, and found that it was more trouble than it was worth.

        One note on backpacks – make sure you don’t overstuff it. A big overstuffed backpack is going to look juvenile no matter how professional the bag is.

          1. Here in SF the Timbuk2 bags are really popular (made locally). They have several laptop backpacks, including one where you can pick your own colors/fabrics — the Swig.
            http://www.timbuk2.com/tb2/products/bagbuilder/custom-swig#

            I have three Timbuk2 bags — one large messenger; one small netbook messenger and one tote. All three are great quality and have held up well over time.

  12. This is more of a whine than a threadjack but please bear with me. I’m really irritated by co-workers who for a lack of a better word, aren’t teamplayers. In my job, we frequently get overscheduled by the court to the point that it is impossible to do everything. Because it’s the norm, we always help each other when we can. I find, though, that certain people never help out but still expect others to bail them out. It just seems selfish to me.

  13. Anyone else feel like they will be stuck at the office all weekend? I’m not BigLaw, but I sure will be putting in BigLaw hours for the next few days – bleh!

    1. I think the “Biglaw” vs. non-Biglaw hours thing is deceptive. I think more frequently its “things with strict deadlines” vs. “things with not-so-strict deadlines.” Even my government job required “Biglaw” hours in the weeks or months leading up to a trial…

      1. Same Anon. I think your are quite right in your distinction. Although we do have a 2150 billable requirement, which adds to some of the pressure. Enough whining from me, though. =)

        1. 2150 and NOT biglaw? Those are sweatshop hours. My biglaw firm only requires 1950, and people around here think that’s high (at least in comparison to some other big firms around my city).
          Hope they’re compensating you well :)

          1. Orig Anon – I make 82k. And I’m in my third year of practice, in a major city. Loads of experience? Definitely. Glad I’m employed? Absolutely. Polishing up the resume and making a serious push to get the hell out of here? Damn skippy. =)

        2. If it makes you feel any better, my first job required 2200 hours, had 15 attorneys and paid $42,500. I stayed exactly 355 days before jumping ship to another firm that didn’t make me hate the profession.

    2. Oh! And yeah, that does suck.

      Super sympathy. Treat yourself to something nice when its over? Maybe something featured on this site. ;-)

    4. Yup, I’m in the office. i haven’t even been working too long and the only respite I’m getting this weekend is to have lunch with my mother for her birthday. at least i will get out for that…

    5. Haven’t been in biglaw in years but this will be a weekend full of work…from home thankfully, but I have some stuff I need to wrap up because my promotion goes into effect on Tuesday so I have to clear space on my desk ….

    6. Well, if it makes you working ladies feel better, most of us students will be hitting the library and books hard this weekend – it’s journal tryout week at my school! UGH….

      1. Good luck!!

        I’m on my review’s editorial board and just spent my Saturday morning working on that. Boooo.

        Taking the rest of the day off because I have a raging case of “senior-itis” and don’t really feel any pressure to read for class anymore…

      2. Journals are such a scam. I don’t think anyone should do them, particularly as it seems they make no difference in jobs (despite the omens portended by Career Services).

        1. Also a 2L in NYC and sort of agree but sort of disagree. I’ve had friends asked on job interviews why they weren’t on a journal.

          1. I agree with you, Janie. I’ve had friends asked why they weren’t on law review, especially if their grades and rank indicated that they probably would have made it. For better or worse, I think the firms in my area view being on law review as shying away from hard work. Many of the larger firms here seem like they won’t even consider candidates, at least students, that don’t have that experience.

        2. Journals to some extent are a scam… but law review is definitely worth it job-wise.

          1. I’m curious about your perspective. If you are in the top 10% (or whatever) of the class, what does being on law review tell the employer other than your rank/grades, which are listed on your resume already? If it is skills and experience, then how is that different from other journals?

          2. True – law review is helpful largely because people get onto it as a result of having high grades. So in that sense, if grades are what matters (and they usually are in the summer associate hiring process), it’s kind of a redundancy. That said, I think being on law review does a few extra things that your transcript alone can’t accomplish. Attorneys who were on law review would talk about it during interviews – it was a shared, bonding experience (regardless of whether the interviewer wanted to talk about the good or the bad!). Same for the attorneys during the summer, especially if they served on the same law review. It was just another point of commonality, and usually for something that was a not insignificant part of their law school experience. It gives an opportunity to build a rapport with those attorneys, and that can matter in landing the job, and in making the most of a summer associate position.

            But it doesn’t just reinforce grades. At my school at least (and certainly at all schools that don’t have grades), you can get onto law review through a writing competition. So being on law review can counter-balance low(er) grades, or provide something to distinguish a candidate in schools where there are no grades.

            And finally – people who grade onto law review have the option of declining membership. I can definitely understand someone who would make that choice (a lot of law review work is just plain boring), but if someone had the grades and chose not to then actually join the review, my guess is some potential employers might view that negatively — might see it as an indication that the candidate isn’t willing to go the extra mile. I’m not agreeing with that – just saying that having the grades but not the law review might raise an eyebrow or two!

            That said – I know several people on my school’s law review who are unemployed, while other people not on law review have their dream jobs. So it’s clearly not a determinative factor by any stretch of the imagination!

        3. I disagree. I can remember going to the head office of my BigLaw firm as a summer, walking into the head of the firm’s practice group where my journal was well regarded and he had a relatively recent issue, and it was definitely beneficial the a) my name was listed on the editorial staff and b) I had some familiarity on the subject matter from my second year duties.

          I would however, recommend that if there are specialized journals in your area of practice, go for them, versus just law review. That way, the experience is relevant to your future practice and not just a credential that proves you know how to blue book….

        4. Well, I am on a journal (though not law review), and I am not a fan at all. I think that the main benefit is that you have the opportunity to get published as a student note. I agree with the commenter about grades — if you have excellent grades, it doesn’t matter if you are on law review or not. And a professor at my law school who clerked for SCOTUS actually put “declined law review” on his CV — who knows what that means?

          The kicker is that writing on doesn’t do much. I know some people who quite obviously wrote on to law review, and they had a difficult time getting jobs this season because they didn’t have the grades. Maybe if you have pretty good grades and then write on, it may make a difference because then firms will think that you graded on?

          This might be only for my law school, so it’s good to hear other perspectives.

          Also, bluebooking sucks. Even J.Posner thinks so: http://www.yalelawjournal.org/images/pdfs/940.pdf

          1. Interesting. Most people I’m friends with are public interest types (as am I) so I don’t really hear the BigLaw perspective as much – I’m not coming up to acquaintances and asking them how recruitment is going! For public interest, I don’t think it matters much compared to work experience, internship, etc.

            To put this in perspective, I’m currently working on a group paper and am the only one in my group who is on any journal. I’m spending my Saturday night fixing other people’s bluebooking (not in a resentful way, promise! – they did other extras) and it’s making me realized how much I really did learn from being on a journal.

          2. @ 3L Exec. Journal Officer — I don’t doubt that for some people it can be a great experience. In fact, for someone with middling grades you have probably used the journal exactly as it was intended.

            I go to a T-5 school, and am probably top 10% of my class now, and will be working at a V-5 firm and received one significant scholarship this year. I don’t know about clerkships yet, so I can’t speak to that.

            However, I’m not sure if the “they’ve got what it takes” really helps UNLESS you publish — which is actually a step above just being on the journal. Mostly, the journal experience is editing other people’s shoddy work (honestly, most profs just stop bluebooking and citing properly) and it is not very much fun at all. I think for the majority of students, journals are just a time sink that would be better spent improving your own writing or attending class rather than hours of cite checking and sourcing.

        5. 2L NYC, hahaha, you keep thinking that. The only way I have everything I have is through getting published with my journal, which led to getting phenomenal internships. I now have a federal clerkship, a national award, multiple scholarships and tons tons tons of contacts (attorneys at the most reputable firms in my field) directly resulting from my journal experience. My grades suck and I go to a T-20ish school, but I’m not at all worried about my future.

          Journals is extremely tough. If I see that someone got published on my journal, I know they’ve spent 8 months in hell writing it and then 3 months in hell working with the editors. They have what it takes.

          1. I hate to burst your bubble, but I went to a T25, graduated in 2009, and have to say that secondary journals didn’t do squat to help my classmates find jobs. I remember clearly that one of the EICs was really struggling, and I know others who are paralegal positions instead of attorney positions. The people who got practical work/internship experience and were able to make connections did a lot better.

        6. I wasn’t on a journal in law school (by choice). The career services people told me, and this has proven to be true during the 5 years I’ve been practicing law, that the benefit to doing a journal is that it shows you’re willing to do hours and hours of extremely tedious and detail-oriented grunt work. This is pretty much exactly what junior associates at large law firms do – hours and hours of tedious and detail-oriented grunt work. Therefore, large law firms like to see journal experience because they know you can deal with the life of a junior associate.

          For public interest and other positions, journals don’t really matter, with the exception of law review which gives you a big prestige bump no matter what job you’re applying for.

        7. I also “declined law review.” I didn’t note that on my resume but listed the legal internship I did instead of law review, the publishable quality work I did for seminars, and trial team.

          I also tried to mention in my interview that I chose not to do law review so I would have time to continue working at x firm and participate in trial team.

          I think I gained much more useful experience working at a litigation firm, being a student attorney at clinic, and doing trial team than I would have gained on law review.

      3. If anyone is seriously considering not doing law review, please read this, and do it! This is in response to Caralynn/Janie above…

        I “wrote on” to the law review of a T10 school. Based on comments made by partners/HR/etc. at the firms I’ve interviewed with and/or been hired at, I believe that-

        1. If your grades are not obviously terrible and you write on, many people will just assume you graded on, either because they don’t look at your grades or look but don’t think about it very hard. This is a huge boost.

        2. Firms like to brag about how many of their associates are on law review. They highlight this info in their lists of summers. It’s one of the first things on your firm bio, along with clerkships.

        3. Given a law review candidate and a non-LR candidate, firms will choose the LR one. They just will. It’s stupid but partners are busy and have very little time to think about the people they’re hiring, have very little good info to judge them on (if students or young associates), and want to make a quick decision based on easily-identifiable, objective factors.

        I’m not really sure that the above applies to non-LR journals. I think that having those your resume only gives you a boost if (1) you’re in a leadership position, (2) it’s a well-reputed journal and (3) you intend to (or just think you might, and can make a convincing case) specialize in the area of practice related to the journal.

        So if it’s possible to write on to your school’s LR (in your 1L year so you’re on before 2L interviews), do the competition and take it seriously!!!! It is so worth the effort. And — this is one area where women have some advantage — many women are simply better writers than men. There’s no reason not to at least try.

        1. “Given a law review candidate and a non-LR candidate, firms will choose the LR one.”

          Not necessarily. I suppose it depends on the firm. I worked in biglaw and interviewed candidates and I never paid attention to law review v. no law review. Now I am involved with my small firm’s interview/hiring process. Of the 3 candidates I interviewed last week, I cannot remember who was on law review (maybe all of them? maybe none of them?). They were all smart people with excellent grades. We hired the person whose personality seemed to be the best fit with our firm culture.

    3. Kat mentioned that she might be in town March 19th-20th, so I’m hoping something will happen that weekend.

        1. Can you tell I have been working my a** off? Big time billable, very little life. Count me in.

    4. If I wasn’t twice everyone’s age, I would probably join in. But I would feel like the token old crone.

      1. Please never feel that way. If you have similar interests and you’re fun to be around, go on and go!

        1. I second that (and I’m not even in SF)! My mentor in college was at least 40 years older than me and we had fabulous conversations about anything and everything. “Old crone” was the last way I would ever have described her.

      2. That’s hardly true! There are plenty of over-the-hill Corporettes.

        Isn’t Lisa from the Privilege blog from the Bay Area? Wonder if she’d come to a meetup…

        3. I’m over the hill, but gaining speed on the downhill stretch. The young whipper-snappers will NEVER catch me!

        4. Over-the-hill?

          Try fantastic mentor! Those of us that are just starting our careers have so much to learn from you ladies that have gone through all this crap already.

  15. Hello all. Early weekend threadjack, looking for some advice.

    I have previously always commented as “Guest” but for this post, I’m adopting a moniker. (A big step for me in the internet commenting world). Bonus points to anyone who guesses what my new moniker stands for. :-)

    We had a small discussion about this in last weekend’s open thread, but I thought I’d throw this out there for a broader audience and try to solicit some comments/advice.

    I am a newly minted lawyer working as a litigator in a large firm (though not in the home office of said firm). Though my office has not done mass associate lay-offs, that doesn’t mean I feel some great and overriding sense of job security.

    I also have Crohn’s disease. For those who don’t know, Crohn’s is a chronic illness that comes in “flares”, which essentially means I can’t always control when or if I’m going to get very, very sick and require hospitalization. I have already had to be in the hospital once since I started my job six months ago. So far everyone has been super supportive, but I still worry.

    So, I’m looking really for two things any advice on how to deal with chronic illness in “high pressure” type careers and jobs.

    I’m really open to any advice, but I should note that it is not super helpful to be told to “reduce stress” from my life. (a) The connection between stress and flares of GI conditions is not as clear as people thing. And (b) every life has stress…and I’m not willing to give up my career to “cope” with my condition. So…starting from that place, any advice more experienced corporettes might have would be SO appreciated.

    Have a good weekend everyone.

      1. Yes. Now I feel like it was less creative. :-P

        Oh well. Still a big step for me.

        1. It’s a great moniker – mine is not creative at all :). I’m just type-A enough that I couldn’t resist your challenge to earn the imaginary “bonus points”!

      2. Well, I don’t have Crohn’s, but I do have a chronic back issue that when they flare up can be excruciatingly painful and require time off from work.
        My advice? Be very upfront (within your comfort limits of course) about your illness. Telling my bosses and coworkers the nature of my bad back (multiple surgeries, implanted metal, etc.) made them much more sympathetic to my issues than if I had just mumbled “bad back, gotta take some time off” and let it be.
        While I understand you can’t totally eliminate stress, I’d definitely suggest trying to incorporate as much exercise as possible, both for the health benefits and stress relief. For me, if I don’t get in cardio/pilates/yoga at least 3-4 times a week I know I’ll have more pain. Its not easy to schedule time for that stuff, but for me, its necessary. Figure out what makes your condition feel better (maybe see a nutritionist/dietitian/acupuncturist/personal trainer) and make it a priority. The sad reality is that these conditions don’t go away, and they don’t really get better (hence, chronic). So the sooner you try to make lifestyle changes the better.

    2. I also have a chronic condition. Not resulting in hospitalization, but it can still be pretty bad. I try to get stuff out of the way WAY in advance if I can, knowing I might not be able to take care of it when I’d like to. Kind of hard, but that means sometimes I stay late for a project that’s due next week just because I can. Then, if I have a rough time later, it doesn’t matter because it’s done. If not, then I can just leave at 5 some day when I don’t have other stuff to do. Kind of hard to plan like this, but just do it whenever you can.

    3. Wow, good question. I have a chronic medical condition and a high-stress job that requires frequent travel in the developing world. I tried to keep my condition mostly private at first, but ended up hospitalized during my first year of employment. Also, I’ve realized that when I travel, things that are extremely important to managing my health like regular and nutritious meals are not nearly so important to everyone else.

      I’ve actually found that being open about the fact that you have a serious, chronic illness is the best way to go. I’m not specific about the details of my condition for the most part, but pretty much all of my immediate coworkers know that I have a chronic condition that requires regular medication, dietary restrictions, and fairly regular time off for medical visits. They’re aware that I am under a lot of emotional stress from managing a chronic illness, in addition to my job stress. Before they knew about my medical condition, my random requests for time off, occasional stressed-out snappishness, and refusal to eat certain foods struck them as odd and made me seem like not a team player. Now that they have known for a couple years, my special needs just seem like part of the routine. When we have new staff, I don’t make a big deal about telling them, but I’ll slip it in if it becomes relevant – “sorry, I can’t do a meeting Wednesday because I have to go have blood drawn, and can we order some different food options because I’m on a limited diet for medical reasons?”.

      I also make sure not to let my condition lead me to do less than my share at work. If I have to go to a doctor’s appointment and it takes 4 hours instead of 2, I suck it up and work late or come in on Saturday. I also try hard to be supportive of my colleagues when they are on leave and pick up slack for them, because they do it for me and because that will give me chips to cash in later.

      I also try not to let the emotional stress of managing my illness affect my work, but sometimes it’s impossible. When I’m preoccupied with health issues, I just tell the coworkers who are closest to me. Just talking about it helps a little, and once they know about it they also tend to be supportive if I need an afternoon off for emotional health reasons.

      1. By the way, I also meant to add that I tend to have this attitude that I can do anything and my illness can’t stop me. Unfortunately, that’s not actually true. I have to remind myself that my needs are NEEDS, not wants, and it’s fine for me to insist on them. For example, if a coworker doesn’t know that I can’t eat certain foods, he’ll think I’m rude for not eating what I’m served or will think I’m just not hungry – and then I’ll end up very sick from eating food I shouldn’t eat or from not eating at all, and that harms the whole team. If I’m open about my dietary needs, then I’ll get what I need to eat and the whole team will be able to get our work done as a result.

    4. Hi TCFKAG –

      1.) I owe you an email
      2.) You already have a lot of great advice here. In the past I was a super honest tell everyone all about my crohn’s disease to spread awareness kind of gal. Now, I’ve scaled that back a lot but I am still open about it. A lot of the stress for me is worrying that I will be sick at an inopportune time – in the middle of a meeting where I have to crawl over people, presenting something, court, in a car with a senior partner stuck in city traffic.

      So, I try to make accommodations for myself while still doing my job. I get to meetings early so I make sure I have an aisle seat near the door. In law school, I let the judge and opposing counsel know if I asked for the recess it was because of a medical condition that made me need the restroom immediatly. This way I didn’t have to worry about getting a request denied or have the judge or counsel think I was stalling. As an intern, second chairing things, I told the first chair. That way, if I slipped out during court they wouldn’t wonder where the heck I was going.

      When I travel for work, I often take my own car or the coach bus so I can use the bathroom freely. The one time I did have to ride w/ someone and needed to stop he said “oh, we are only x miles to the state rest area.” I responded, oh, I need you to take this exit, I have a medical condition and need to stop now. This led to a further discussion because he also has family members with the same disease. It is embarassing but it really helps reduce my stress to think ahead and avoid bad situations as much as possible.

      I bring my pills with me and I’m not afraid to take them in public. I’ll call ahead to check on food availability. I bring protein bars and eat them when I need to.

      Like others, I always try to get work done well in advance of deadlines, just in case of emergency. I also work extra when I’m feeling well to show that I can be just as hard working as all the healthy folks.

      Great post!

    5. I have CD and it is absolutely awful. It doesn’t help that the medication has horrible side effects too. Because it is quite hidden people don’t realise the impact it has on you and your life.
      You don’t have to give up your career, here are a few practical tips from me, though bear in mind, my career is not law so YMMV.

      1. Have an ’emergency pack’ with you to deal with the unexpected flares that can get you through a few hours of not being at home.
      2. Try to have a back up plan for key arrangements /activities – especially if they are far in advance – think about who could help you if you needed them to etc.
      3. Be scrupulous with filing and record keeping – this means that you can quickly pick up where you left off or that others can pick up your work if need be – I think that this is very important.
      4. Ditto number 3 about your workspace – I recall feeling quite embarrassed about the state of my desk drawers after an unexpected hospital stay…
      5. Rather tell you to reduce stress, I would advise you to have develop an ‘off switch’ so that you can spend time stress free to recharge your batteries – you really do need this.
      6. If you can, avoid or mitigate the effects of people with contagious illness – e.g. colds so you can limit your sick leave for non CD issues.

      A firm that understands and supports you is a wonderful thing and you are likely to find out that there are colleagues who have a relative with CD. However it is important to note that you will come across unsympathetic colleagues as well, so please be prepared to deal with this professionally – i.e. try to rise above any comments.

      Outside of work related advice, I also kept a food diary and identified any foods that added to my troubles – I now avoid these foods.

      Happy to answer any specific questions you might have.

      1. Any tips on setting up a good filing system? I have to say that filing and organization isn’t my STRONGEST suit. Do you use or have you ever used your assistant to help with this? I really don’t make a whole ton of use of my assistant and I know they’re supposed to be able to help with filing and stuff…but I feel like i have to at least set up a system first!

        (This may be kind of off-topic, but since you brought it up. ;-)

        I’m pretty lucky with diet. Foods don’t really irritate me. I’m either relatively healthy and can eat anything or I’m really sick and can’t eat anything. I consider that something of a blessing because I really, really like a lot of foods that are not considered “good” for Crohn’s. :-)

        1. I work with a woman with, I think, a similar situation. One thing she does that is very helpful is to keep sort of running transfer memos on her files. They list things like the important dates in the case, what she’s done so far, and the next steps. They seem to be really useful, and I’m trying to keep them myself as well. Gives me a better idea of what my big picture is.

        2. If you have an assistant maybe she/he can set up a filing system for you? Otherwise I use a ‘project, sub project and date’ style system:

          1. Set up a number of folders and sub folders: e.g. Admin (expenses, annual leave, Personal reviews etc); Articles (Newsletter, Magazines); Projects (Project 1, Project 2, Project 3); Action Plan (Action Plan, monthly action plan reports, quarterly action plan reports)
          2. Date and time drafts / versions of documents in the file name as this is an obvious way for you / your colleagues can work out your latest version
          3. At the end of a project I set up a sub folder called ‘archive’ where I put all the different versions and bits that aren’t final docs.
          4. Arrange recurring items (e.g. monthly reports/expenses) in years / months in the appropriate folder.

          It is worth setting some time aside to set up a good filing system and follow up every month with a ‘tidy up’.

          Good to hear you aren’t affected by many foods – it’s horrible during a flare up isn’t it? I’m usually ravenous when I am well again!

          1. Thanks for the ideas. We have kind of an established “case file” format at work that I’ve been using, but its not fabulously organized. I’m going to work on this though.

            I do find that I have to maintain like two complete wardrobes almost. The, I’m sick and a size 6/8 wardrobe and the I’m health and a size 10/12 wardrobe. Its a pain, but I just never know. :-)

        3. I haven’t read it yet, so can’t say whether it’s helpful or not, but I just bought a paperback called “The Organized Lawyer.”

    6. I just wanted to say that I totally feel for you. My husband has Crohn’s, and I know it can be insanely painful and scary when it flares. He is an attorney and works crazy hours and I worry a lot. He had it under control for years and now is taking injections after a really tough time last summer. So far, that seems to really be helping. One of my friends’ husbands with Crohn’s has had a lot of success with Remicade. In addition to following your doc’s guidance on diet, I’d try to find a physician open to exploring different interventions. Sometimes it just is a hit or miss on finding what will help keep it under control for awhile. It’s definitely tough at times. I think what has helped my husband has been “thinking small” (by that I mean just focusing on things as they come up and just trying to get from one meal to the next during rough spots), trying to keep a sense of humor, being fairly open about his condition, confiding in someone close so you don’t feel like you’re going through it alone, and keeping an eye toward changees you experience and trying to adjust early before it gets too bad– If something isn’t working for him, he doesn’t hesitate to let his doctor know so they can try something else (some probiotics, a different steroid, etc.). Anyway, I just want to say I hope you start feeling better, too, and that you’re definitely not alone.

        1. Hey, there. I’m the former corporette currently known as “communicatrix” and I’m happy to share what I know about coping if it would be helpful. My own Crohn’s didn’t kick in until well after I left the 9-to-5 (in my case, advertising), but I did continue to act professionally for a while after DX. The short answer is “manage the crap (no pun intended) out of what you can, and build in as much rest as possible outside of work.” This pretty much means what little personal life you have becomes devoted to hot baths and extra shuteye, but you do what you gotta.

          Also, I cannot recommend any chi-related activity highly enough. I practice Nei Kung now (an internal form of qi gong), but back in the go-go days, I did acupuncture and shiatsu. It’s nutty, but it works.

          Also-also, re: workflow stuff, you may want to check out a podcast called “Mac Power Users.” The co-hosts are lawyers, and v. smart about wrangling data and managing time. There’s a heavy Mac slant (obvs.!), but you may find some of the episodes helpful, workflow-wise. (David Sparks also wrote a book called “Mac at Work” which comes highly recommended.)

          So sorry you’re dealing with this. Not easy under even ideal circumstances, and yours aren’t. Hang in there!

    8. Wow…you all are awesome (but keep it coming!)

      I should say, I was diagnosed about 13 years ago, so I am very used to dealing with the disease in other contexts (such as, for example, three years of law school and four years of college!) For those who this means anything to, I am on Humira (an injection drug), a bunch of oral meds, and I have an ostomy (which I had to get in the middle of a semester of law school…that was fun).

      I have so far tried to be as honest with my bosses and people at work as possible. Stupid follow-up question though. I actually was hospitalized for about a week a couple of months after I started. Of course I told HR and my bosses and kept them up to date on when I’d be back. But no one else knew. People actually thought I had gone on vacation! I know my bosses/HR can’t really tell people (confidentiality and everything) but how do I pass it along. I’m thinking next time I might tell one of the people I’m close to to tell people…I don’t want people thinking I’m just taking time off…

      Anyway, thanks for the tips everyone. I heart this website so much for how wonderful this community is.

      1. When I was hospitalized during my first year at my current job, I just told my boss and close colleagues, and told them it was fine to tell other people I was sick. I had to email or call a couple colleagues to catch them up on my projects, and so they knew what was up. I don’t think there’s any confidentiality concern so long as you tell them it’s fine to tell others where you are.

        Also, you could set up your out of office auto reply to say that you’re on medical leave.

      2. As the token medical type person here (and a general surgeon) I just want to say that you women are amazing. Totally totally amazing. And you should be proud of yourselves. You are coping and trying to thrive with a condition that is debilitating, painful, and very unpredictable. I really feel humbled, and don’t feel like I have anything to add, other than my admiration. Sometimes I need to give patients peptalks, to cheer them on as they go through really difficult times with Crohn Disease, and I will use your anecdotes and successes (anonymously of course) to encourage people.

      3. I couldn’t reply above, but yes I have a range of clothing sizes too! I have a pair of size 0 jeans somewhere which I bought after my worst bout when I came out of hospital weighing just 85 pounds!

    9. You might want to have a friend who specializes in employment/disability law give you a crash course over dinner. Law firms sometimes forget that the ADA applies to them, too, and that they have to engage in the interactive process with you — even if they don’t want to. I suspect that most large firms fail to do so because they bank on the expectation that you will never press the issue.

  16. OK Seattlites: 6ish on Thursday or Friday (March 10/11 or 17/18 so we have some time to reserve dates)? Probably downtown for best results… Boka? Kells? Elsewhere?

    1. Yay!

      I can’t do Thursdays ever, so my preference is for either Friday.

      I like Boka – the bar at the W is also nice.

    3. Sounds like Friday the 11th 6pm at Boka, right? Head for the lounge with the fireplace across the hall from the restaurant, there’s more room there. Can’t reserve so I’ll try to get there early and make it obvious that I’m there for the ‘rettes.

      1. I’m curious as to how you plan to make that obvious, but I’ll look for a small group of fashionable yet professional ladies. Looking forward to this!

          1. Don’t worry, I’ll be the worst-dressed to take the pressure off everyone else :D

        2. I was thinking a table tent or other super fashionable table accessory. maybe a single rose in A Tale of Two Cities…

      2. Disclaimer: I’ll be coming from casual friday!! Yikes! The pressure to look effortlessly casual AND professional…in Seattle.

  17. Dear Corporettes,
    I have an interview next week and need to buy a suit ASAP. Any ideas for where to get a decent basic black/grey suit on sale?

    1. Banana Republic is having a sale in store- 25, 30, or 50% off. Ann Taylor is also having a sale- 20% off pants, and a lot of markdowns in the store.

    2. Macys is in most malls, and is usually a reliable source for inexpensive suits. Selection does vary by location. I have noticed large petite sections in some, larger plus sizes in others. TJ Maxx is a great place for bargains, but a bit hit-or-miss.

    3. Look further down the thread. They’re having a sale on suits at Lord & Taylor right now.

      Don’t know if its also in-stores, but might be worth checking out.

      Good luck!

    1. Very cute! I had a white cheapo purse one summer, and I found it went with everything.

    2. Pretty bag. I don’t think the handles look insubstantial. I have two Michael Kors bags that I love, and use regularly, and they have held up very well over several years of twice/thrice/[four?] weekly wear.

  19. Does anybody have a web site or a book rec on how to write really good cover letters? I kind of suck at them and I need to write two this weekend.

    2. I hate cover letters also! They take forever and that is just to get a chance at an interview!

      By the way, I was wondering if anyone had any advice. Before law school I went on an interview at a small local law office. I didn’t get hired because I only had 6 months left until law school, but they mentioned that they have internship opportunities for law students in the summer. The attorney went to my (new) law school, works 10 minutes from my hometown, and I saw him in court during my judicial internship so I’m thinking I have a decent shot. Should I call/e-mail/snail mail/ or go to his office one day? I figure e-mails are too easy to overlook.

      1. Email or call. Definitely don’t go to his office. The standard procedure is generally to email. I doubt he’d overlook it.

          1. You were getting advice to show up unannounced at his office?? I would definitely email or call. You can always email, wait a while, and then call to follow up.

          2. Pretty much! Or at least to personally drop off a cover letter and resume. I am of course hesitant to do that so I was seeking advice. I think mailing is the best option because even I skip over e-mails if I’m busy.

          3. If you’re worried about him skipping the email – you can do both. Stick it in the mail and also send an email – in the email say, “I am also sending hard copies in the mail to your office for your convenience.”

          4. Yea I think I will just mail it to him. His website doesn’t have an email address. I would like to actually go there, but I just don’t want to bother him and impose.

    3. http://www.rileyguide.com

      It’s a really old-school jobsearch site, now owned by the WSJ. It has the perfect guide to everything–negotiations, resignations, CLs, resumes…it’s a great resource.

      I have been taught by ugrad and b-school the following.

      Para 1: As a ________________, I am very interested/delighted to see you are seeking [NAME OF POSITION]. [My friend Molly/etc.] speaks very highly of [NAME OF FIRM/DEPT].

      Para 2: Three-four sentences which describe prior experiences, qualities, traits.

      Para3: I look forward to the opportunity to speak with you further regarding [X position]. Many thanks for your time.

      Kind regards,
      Jobseeker

      Your CL should highlight that which is not in your resume, is a chance to explain away an potential red flags in your resume, and likely won’t be read UNLESS you stick it in the same pdf file as your resume, so pdf them together.

      Always double check addresses, proper names, grammar, punctuation and the Company name, in case you are recycling….

      Good luck!

      1. I was taught in college to use a standards CL format as suggested above. HOWEVER, I was involved in a recent hiring at work and the successful candidate wrote a nontraditional cover letter. The first paragraph was an attention-grabbing story about one of the biggest projects he worked on. Granted, I work in an industry in which compelling writing is key (not law), so I’m not sure that approach would succeed in all cases. But I’m definitely keeping it in mind from now on because it really stood out.

    4. When I had to do this, what I found most helpful is going to a big B&N, career section, and sitting with a coffee and 4-5 Cover Letter How-To books. Skim them all, figure out what works and what doesn’t. Take notes.
      There was one book that literally had CLs for different professions/fields & at different stages of career dev., from student, grad or senior level.

  20. Hi ‘Ettes! I’d like your thoughts on a salary quandary I’ve found myself in-

    4 or 5 months ago, my colleague and I, who were jointly second-in-charge in our department, decided we wanted raises. We’re both hard workers and had been in the position for a year, so we asked for more money. (My company is, er, loosely structured, shall we say, so there is no standardized raise-giving). We made our case and were given equal raises.

    About a month ago he took a promotion (one that I would never have wanted) and he’ll be getting more money, which is all well and good, since he’s got a lot more stress. The trouble is that I found out they won’t be replacing him on my team, so I will also have a lot more slack to pick up. If I’d know I’d be carrying a significant portion of his workload, I would have held off and asked for more money. I’m just about smack-dab in the middle of the pay scale for my position, so it’s not an issue of me sort of maxing out my money potential, but I’d feel crass asking again so soon for more. How long should I wait before saying “look, I’m taking on a whole lot here, I feel like I should be getting more money”?

    Thanks for any thoughts!

    1. My gut instinct is to take on the extra work for awhile and show that you are capable of doing it all and then ask for a raise. At that point you will be able to point to the extra work you have been doing. I’m not sure what the time frame on this would be though. Do you have an annual review where it would be appropriate to bring this up?

      This is just my gut instinct. Hopefully others will have more concrete advice for you.

    2. It’s never crass to ask for what you deserve. If the situation were reversed, would your male coworker think it’s crass to ask to be paid fairly for an increased workload? I doub tit.

      I’d ask right now. Your responsibilities are changing now, so you deserve a raise now. If you wait a while, then from your boss’s perspective, you’ll be asking for more money to do the work you were already doing. If your boss says no right now, then ask him to revisit the issue in 3 months after you’ve been doing the extra work for a while.

      1. I agree with this. I don’t see why you need to do the work before asking. You could say something like “now that we’re restructuring the position and I’ll have more responsibilities, can we revisit the compensation?”

      2. Woah, totally disagree with these comments and feel they are very “short sighted”.

        1. You make an assumption the guy would ask for more. You all know what happens when we just assume. Besides, he wanted a job you didn’t, why even compare yourself to what hypothetical guy would do? Seems like a bad excuse to justify something that you are not comfortable with.
        2. You just asked for a raise. Don’t look greedy.
        3. Maybe they will replace him in a short period of time. All you know is that right now they are not.
        4. Wait at least one year from the last request for a raise until the next. You can ask for more if you wait longer than if you did now anyways and in the long run that could work out.
        5. If you wait it also shows you’re a team player, not just a “woah is me, I need more money” person, which I think is not something anyone should come off as.

        1. Just my two cents, but I wouldn’t take advice from someone who can’t use quotation marks correctly and doesn’t know how to spell woe (or whoa, for that matter).

          2. Very snarky! Most of us type these things too quickly and don’t really proofread for a blog response!

            I agree with this assessment. I would do the work for a few months and prove your worth (and ensure that they do not replace your co-worker) before asking for another raise. I do not think there is a magic time to wait (like a year). but put a few months in to show that you are up for the additional responsibility/work — that strengthens your position when you ask for an additional raise.

          3. Srsly, not cool. I agree w/ Ab. Just think about what the consequences to OP would be if she asks for the raise, maybe gets it (or maybe not), and then is not able, in fact, to carry the heavier load. Then she would just be seen as incompetent. Whereas, by not asking for a raise, if she can’t carry the heavier load, it’s merely that the company was asking too much of her.

            And, no, I don’t believe this is a man/woman thing. I don’t think most men would ask for a 2nd raise just a few months after an earlier raise, even w/ a change in circumstances. And any man who does, would also be seen as greedy/not a team player too.

    3. Thanks everyone for your comments!

      My job is kind of peculiar, since the upper management is a bit disorganized. We don’t really have performance reviews (though I have explicitly requested one several times). I suppose that my biggest problem is that I keep being given responsibilities, but my title and relative position in the company stay the same because there is only one position above mine in my division and it’s already occupied by my boss, so I have nowhere to move.

      Anyway, I’ll sit tight for a while, I am very very conscious of not looking like a spoiled brat (and it’s not about the money, it’s really just about the principle). Thanks so much for all of your feedback!

      1. I think sitting tight for at least a little while makes sense. If it really is a huge increase in workload, I don’t think that you should wait a year. But a couple months so that you can accumulate accomplishments and show that you really are doing more work than you were previously seems like a good idea to me.

  21. From the “my job sucks” files–

    By virtue of being the first female the managing partner saw in the hallway after the plumber fished a large number of sanitary pads out of the clogged toilet line, I have been assigned the task of finding a “business-appropriate, professional and discreet” way to make sure people aren’t flushing sanitary pads down the toilets at work. Apparently there were a lot of them, so it must not be a client doing it. managing partner doesn’t want a separate container for sanitary pads, so they will go in the regular garbage. Our office is a converted house and the two bathrooms are just regular bathrooms– not stalls and not male or female specific. Managing parter apparently lives in the 1950’s and commutes each day by time machine. Managing partner can’t even say “period” or “pads” or “tampons”. It is “sanitary supplies for that time of the month”. He doesn’t want to “embarass or offend” male clients.

    I don’t want to do a hand-made sign (not professional enough), but my idea is this– get some of the paper bags that are made to dispose pads in. Find a sign that says “please use the bags provided to dispose of sanitary supplies in the garbage” and handle it that way. Managing partner is stingy and I doubt he’ll go for the bag idea, but what else can I do?

    So. Freaking. Happy. It’s. Friday. How on Earth am I in charge of this one????? Should I put it on my resume? “Sanitary pad problem-solver?” That’s what I get for leaving my desk.

    1. Is there someone in HR you can talk to about this? Maybe an e-mail to all employees…not specifically talking about pads, but saying “People have been flushing things other than toilet paper. Stop that.”

      Otherwise, you probably don’t need to provide the bags. Just a printed sign that says, please don’t flush anything other than toilet paper (don’t have to specifically reference sanitary napkins if that makes your managing partner squeamish.)

      Also…I have to say, if our managing partner stopped me in the hall to talk to me about sanitary napkins, I think I’d have a cow. I’d die of embarrassment…he’s such an uncomfortable older guy, I just can’t imagine that discussion. :-)

    2. “…commutes each day by time machine” made me laugh!

      I am just shaking my head at this one. Mille, you have my sympathies.

    3. I’ve never heard of paper bags designed for disposing of pads. I would go with TCFKAG’s suggestion of a sign “Please do not flush items other than toilet paper” or something like that.

    4. I like the idea of an email to the whole office – “you may have noticed the toilet in the restroom was out of service… it has now been fixed. Going forward, please do not flush any paper towels or sanitary products. Instead, please use the trash can.” Something like that.

    5. If we’re talking about not even putting tampons down the toilet, I think you probably need to find a way to get receptacles in the stalls or at least some sort of bag to wrap up the pads/tampons to take them to the trash can accompanied by typed out signs. I’m sorry the managing partner doesn’t want a separate receptacle for sanitary pads, but they are the norm in the vast majority of public restrooms with multiple stalls.

      1. My understanding was that tampons are flushable generally, pads are not. Unless a toilet is attached to really awful plumbing, I’m not sure this is what’s meant by not flushing sanitary products. But maybe I’m wrong?

        1. I live in a city where many, many homes are 75+ years old, and my girlfriends and I have learned from experience that these pipes cannot withstand regular tampon flushing I’m thinking specifically of the cringe-inducing tale of toilet overflow when a friend met her future inlaws for the first time (!!!). I’m not sure whether it’s an issue of pipe angles or narrowness of the passageways, but I’ve completely abandoned tampon flushing.

    6. What the hell? I remember your posts because every time you post a story about work, it makes your job sound just hellish. You have my complete sympathy.

      As for the matter at hand – I personally would tell managing partner it’s not my job and he can find an appropriate non-attorney staff member to deal with this. (And also, what the hell, having a specific container for sanitary supplies would offend male clients? Is this 1953? Are menstruating women supposed to hide ourselves from the menfolk, lest we become hysterical?)

      If you do decide to deal with this, I think the bags sound like the best idea. Presumably the pad-flusher (who the hell would do that anyway?) doesn’t want anyone to see her pads, and that’s why she’s flushing them.

    7. Perhaps it’s the bottle of wine I just finished, but I wonder if you could post the plumber’s invoice, along with a note saying “I know the box says says you can flush tampons, but you clearly can’t. Thank you for your co-operation.”

    8. “Managing parter apparently lives in the 1950′s and commutes each day by time machine.” This made me laugh out loud.

      Just out of curiosity, are your garbage cans covered? If not, it might be worth the investment–maybe someone is self-conscious and therefore flushing? I thought it was pretty common knowledge that pads shouldn’t be flushed, but apparently not.

      It sounds like your office is relatively small, so would it be possible to email all of the women in the office with a PSA about what happened? Managing partner might be more comfortable with you being business-appropriately-direct with women only.

    9. Thanks for all the ideas– I love “infrastructure crisis response” and will probably use that in my email to the staff about the issue.

      Erin M.– my work has actually been a lot better since I returned from maternity leave. I think the Partner I work for would rather keep me around than try to hire someone new.

  22. Can anyone recommend a pdf editor for a Mac that they like? I’d prefer something less expensive than Acrobat Pro if possible.

  23. Hi, the birthday thread from yesterday made me decide that I needed to stop sitting on my butt and watching sitcoms on hulu and ask this question.

    My new year’s resolution was “Read Less, Do More.” So far I’ve read 17 books and the only thing vaguely new and exciting I’ve done is start exercising once a week (baby steps). The problem: I live in a small town, have no money, and it’s cold outside!

    I would love to travel or do something really exciting, but in the meantime, does anyone have any ideas for fun activities on a budget?

    1. Cooking!!! Or baking (though I much prefer cooking). Try some new recipes, watch some cooking shows, and get adventurous. Try new vegetables. Try to make your own pasta.

      When I’m feeling in a rut, cooking some new and different things really makes me feel like I’ve done something special.

      1. I’ll second that. One of the best feelings in the world is preparing something special and sharing it with people you care about. Just catch a few spots on the FoodNetwork and dive in; it’s usually a lot simpler than you would think.

        And, in my experience, many of the best meals for sharing are economical- pastas, soups and stews, desserts. It means a lot to both give and get them.

      2. I second this proposition.
        The plus side is that sinceI live alone, I can have many portions out of one cooking session. Whenever I feel like it, I just pop a tupperware out of the fridge and it has a yummy slowly cooked meal rather than the ubiquitous tuna sandwich…

    2. With your level of reading, you should consider joining a book club.

      Do you have any community centers that offer courses? My city has an arts and crafts center that offers various crafts classes from $40-100 for a 2-month class. You could also do day trips on the weekend to interesting places near you- usually the AAA guidebooks will have a lot of interesting options, and they’re free if you are a AAA member.

      Another way to get out there is to start volunteering. You could either pick an organization or join a service club like Junior League or Rotary. You can also do something related to skill building like Toastmasters.

      1. I’ll put in a plug for the American Red Cross. Volunteering there is a great way to help out in your community, and you’ll meet some really nice folks.

    3. Volunteer at a community organization, maybe the library since books are your thing now? Maybe there’s a books to prisons chapter in your area, or you could start one?

    4. Your post made me smile! I love how honest people are on this forum. I spent this morning watching sitcoms on hulu and have been reading a ton of books lately. I’ve been feeling a little stuck, too.

    5. Do you have the space outside to garden (or even get a few planters?). It’s early enough that you should be able to start things from seed (=very cheap) and it can be kind of fun to go through the process of thinking about what you might want to grow. I also like thinking about plants in the dreary winter months because it reminds me that spring is coming :)

      If you’re concerned about having a brown thumb, you can always start with something like herbs. Fresh basil in the summer is lovely.

      Knitting isn’t quite as cheap, but it doesn’t have to be a super-expensive hobby if you don’t want it to be. And, it’s fun to be able to make things for yourself.

      Clearly, I grew up as a devout Laura Ingalls Wilder fan.

    6. Digital photography. All you need is a camera and a computer. I use the free kodak gallery software to do my edits. The cameras that are one step above an everyday going out camera, but not the big SLR types, are super easy to use and fairly economical. I started doing digital photography when I moved to a new state and didn’t know anyone. I felt so less awkward exploring tourist spots with my camera and just taking picture of everything.

      I also got a dog and met a lot of people at the dog park. I didn’t get any real friendships out of it, but it was nice to see some of the same faces weekly, chat over my coffee, and let my dog have a good time!

    7. Check out your local rec center. I know, it sounds kind of lame, but my boss and I actually took 10 weeks of tennis lessons (1.5 hours each) for around $75 total one spring. We had an absolute blast and the cost per lesson worked out to a little less than $8 (we borrowed any necessary tennis equipment from friends).

      Now every time I feel like I’m in a ‘rut’, I browse the rec center catalog online and find some good ideas.

    8. Adult ballet. Most ballet schools (like those for kids) offer them, and you can just pay as you go. Or any kind of dance class, really.

    9. Thanks for the suggestions, everyone! You had a lot of ideas that I’d never thought of (adult ballet, cooking new things) and others that I’d thought of but forgotten about (volunteering). You’ve definitely motivated me to get started, I made shepard’s pie for the first time this weekend!

    10. Yoga! it’s a great way to get back into exercising, and the right class can accommodate every sort of body and flexibility (that is, you *don’t* have to be flexible to begin). I’ve been amazed at how, as I get older, my strength and flexibility are actually *increasing* because of my regular yoga practice. Right now I’m practicing every day, as part of a 40 Day Challenge, and I haven’t felt this good since I was a teenager (I’m north of 40). I wish everyone could have this experience. I highly, highly recommend it.

  25. Hi Everyone:

    I’m a first-time poster, and I just wanted to say thank you. I just bought and read Nice Girls Don’t Get the Corner Office. I never would have picked it up without the many recommendations from this forum.

    1. Same here! I just finished reading it two days ago, and have already passed it along to one of my good friends. Such an important book, I’m so glad it got recommended here.

      1. Take it with a bit of a grain of salt, some of the information is a bit extreme. But it is good advice.

        1. Agree – I’d say a huge grain of salt. I gleaned some useful tips, but I honestly can’t say I liked all or even most of it.

        2. I find these comments interesting. It goes to show just how different we can all be. While I didn’t agree 100% with everything the book said, I didn’t think any of it was “extreme” or even that weird. Mostly I think because I already act very much like the book recommends (in most but not all respects). I think it’s worked for me, mostly because that was my personality to begin with. But she does say, don’t try to do these things if it feels completely fake/forced.

    2. I just put it in my amazon cart! I tend to be too nice and emotional so I need to work on that!

    3. I got it recently also, based on this forum. Haven’t had time to start reading it yet. Darned tax season.

  26. Ladies – I am looking for thoughts on online dating? I have never tried it but a number of people I know have with varying levels of success/enjoyment. I find I still have some kind of barrier to cross before I am entirely happy with the concept of plastering a picture of myself on the internet for people to see and judge, but I have recently thought about it on the basis that I am working very hard and hardly ever meet anyone. I’m certainly not looking for a husband, I just miss dating so I have toyed with the idea but would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on the subject!

    1. It’s not for me, but to each their own. I know several extremely creepy guys who do very well on dating sites because they’re excellent writers. By the time the woman figures out what the guy is really like, she’s sleeping with him and desperately trying to save the relationship.

      One guy even has standard answers ready to cut and paste into an email because questions he gets are always so similar.

      1. “One guy even has standard answers ready to cut and paste into an email because questions he gets are always so similar.”

        I did this, too, before I met my husband (offline). Internet dating was a good way to start meeting people when I wasn’t having much luck on my own. I have lots of friends who have met their partners online. It seems normal these days.

    2. I got over the “see and judge” obstacle by realizing that I’d already survived so many other situations with potential for rejection in my life that I could certainly handle this one. And it can be a lot of fun if you treat it like a game and have a friend doing it at the same time. Then you can compare notes (the same guy didn’t consider geography to be a problem with my friend but said that he thought I lived too far away) and laugh it off. The key is to be sure your profile attracts the kind of man you’re looking for. I know you’re not looking for a husband, but the book “Find a Husband after 35” has a great chapter on how to word your profile. I used its advice when I joined eHarmony in 2005 and just celebrated my third wedding anniversary with the second guy to request communication from me then.

    3. I got married in 2001, which I guess was pretty much right before on-line dating moved from “something creepy for losers who can’t meet anyone the normal way”* to mainstream and normal. Nowadays, it seems like almost every couple I know who’s gotten married since we did has met online. Obviously, you need to use common sense about meeting people and such, but otherwise, just go for it. The worst that’s likely to happen is that you waste a little bit of time with a less than ideal match, which you would certainly have done anyway in the “normal” dating world.

      *I’m being tongue in cheek here. No one who met their loved one in 2000 online is really a loser- I’m just saying that it wasn’t widely accepted yet at that point, and that some people still had that impression.

    4. One of my best friends decided to get on Match and has been dating one of the first guys she met (if not the first, actually) since the middle of last year. He’s great and they have a wonderful time together. She joined for fun but I wouldn’t be surprised if she ends up with this guy long-term.

      She said the hardest thing for her was accepting that she did care about being physically attracted to someone–she didn’t want to admit that it mattered but for her, it did.

    5. Do it. It’s a lot of fun, and you’ll learn a ton about yourself, and about what you’re looking for. Just don’t take it too seriously, don’t go in there with a lot of high expectations. It’s like meeting people at a bar — some are great but many are not, and everyone is there for a different purpose. You will learn a TON about humanity. But just try to relax and have fun too.

    6. My friend and I were in a similar situation to you, so we decided to take the plunge and sign up together on eHarmony. She also did Match and I also did OKCupid. It was really great to have a friend to share the experience with and compare notes.

      I really went for it and went on 40+ different dates. I recommend always meeting for coffee or drinks first, never a meal, so that you can make a graceful exit quickly if you find that this nice man on paper is not so nice, or nice but you’re just not attracted to him. I did not find a relationship from either of these places, but that’s likely due in part to meeting my now-fiance through friends of friends about six weeks into my online dating experiment. I think I became a better small talker/networker (useful in business!) from these 40+ dates. Once I met my guy, I quit eHarm and OKC.

      My friend stayed on the sites longer, and about 5 months into it, met her husband through eHarmony and it was like bam! They both knew instantly that it was right, got married within 8 months and now have a baby. He’s a really great guy from a great family.

      I’m actually still friends with a couple of the people I met on eHarmony, too. I agree that some people on eHarmony (including some of the men I went on dates with) were looking to get married soon, but I’d say there were also a lot of people who were on eHarmony because they were *open to the possibility* of a serious relationship or marriage, which was absolutely not the case for OKC. My friend found that Match was a combination of eHarmony and OKC – some people looking for short term only and some looking for more serious relationships.

      I say go for it – give online dating a try, ideally by dragging another single friend into it too. As you can tell from my anecdote, I recommend you try eHarmony and Match. If nothing else, it was a very interesting learning experience for me, and it resulted in a marriage for my friend!

      1. And coincidentally, half off a 3-month eHarmony membership is a groupon today!

        1. I’m ready to take the plunge, but afraid people from work will see me on there!

          1. That happened to me. About a week after I signed up for eHarmony, I got matched up with a colleague. For about an hour or so after getting the “match,” I was mortified, thinking that now he was going to tell everyone I worked with that I was a “loser” on an internet dating site. And then I realized — Duh! — he’s on this site, too, so we’re in the same boat. The next time we saw each other in the hallway, we both just looked at each other sheepishly and laughed. We never spoke of it again.

            And then two months later, eHarmony matched me up with the man I am now engaged to. All’s well that ends well!

    7. As for online dating tips, I suggest you write a unique profile that expresses who you are as a person without exaggerating or fabricating your good qualities. Also, be careful about who you contact and about meeting up. There are some creepy and …. just annoyingly persistent men out there. Don’t be afraid to use that block feature on your phone or email!

    8. I actually met my husband online. Looking online is certainly not something that I would have normally done but on a whim I decided to take a shot at the whole online dating thing and ended up finding the man of my dreams. The funny thing is my husband is so not the online dating kind of a guy and I think we both reached beyond our comfort zone and hit the jackpot. There are a lot of creepers out there but there are also many guys out there who are in your same boat. The tricky part is weeding out the former from the latter. Be careful, verify everything and if you get to the point where you meet in person, always have a friend know the exact details of where you will be and when you will be home. I know not everyones
      counterpart can be found online like mine was but it’s worth a shot, right?

    9. I haven’t met the man of my dreams, but I have met a few fun guys, and I’ve been dating one on and off for almost 10 months now.

      I will say that I have absolutely ridiculous criteria for what types of men I will consider on these websites (call me a brat or something worse, but I *think* it’s helped me weed out a creep or two). At the very least one of the guys will be a friend for a very long time, and I’m pleased about that. =)

    10. I met my husband on OKCupid — like Darlene, I married the second man to contact me on the site. I wasn’t looking for a husband in the least, and DH had just moved to the area and was mainly looking for people to hang out with, but we turned out to be perfect for each other. I think, like lots of people have said, that you just have to be comfortable setting your BS detector on high and be unafraid to just completely ignore the many, many men who will contact you all “HEY BABBY U SO FIEN.” (Seriously. There are lots.) As long as you go into it with an open mind and a healthy attitude, which it sounds like you are, it can be a lot of fun.

    11. I’m a big advocate of online dating. I think the more guys you meet and the more experience you have at dating, the better you’re going to be at it, i.e. you’ll learn the red flags, you’ll learn what you like and what you don’t like, and who knows, you might even meet Mr. Right! I wouldn’t go into it with the attitude that you’re going to meet the one, but that it’s a good way to get dating experience, especially because it can be really hard to meet guys the “organic” way. One thing I will caution though is to take everything on someone’s profile with a grain of salt. It’s so easy for people to lie and just suck you in. Just be careful like you would with any situation in meeting new people. I think online dating is totally acceptable! Good luck!

  28. Is anyone here a member of an NYC bar associate committee? I’ve read the information on the website but I’d like more information for people who are members. What do the committees do? Why did you choose to be on one? What are the benefits and time commitment of being on a committee?

    Thanks!

  29. I’ll say I know a *number* of people who met their now-husbands on internet sites (whether it was JDate, match, etc.).

    Clog question here — I’ve been wearing Danksos (the ones nurses and surgeons wear) for years while home w/the kiddies because of some minor foot issues (bunion). Now that I’m back to work I’ve been wearing the most comfortable heels $ can buy to look professional but really feeling the absence of the clogs (ouch).

    Just curious if patent leather clogs would be passable with a pantsuit? One woman in my office wears this, but she’s not an attorney and I’m trying to somehow carry off an ‘err on the side of professionalism demeanor’ until established in this job (of a few months). Appreciate any thoughts!

    1. I confess to wearing my Danskos to work with pants. They are not the traditional clog, but a sliiiiightly better looking mary jane style. I do not pretend it’s a fashionable choice, but I work at a small law office completely devoid of fashionistas and I feel confident no one has an opinion on the subject but me. Only a small bit of the toe pokes out from under the hem and I think it looks fine with pants on normal days in my business casual office. I would never wear them to a depo or court, of course.

      1. P.S. I am the anon from 8:34, and I should add that I would never wear my Danskos with a suit. More casual slacks or chinos, fine.

    2. I highly recommend the website below for comfortable shoe options. The woman who writes it has bunions due to her rheumatoid arthritis. Not all the shoes she writes about are corporate friendly, but its a good place to explore different brands.

      http://www.barkingdogshoes.com/newshoe/

      I have some serious foot pain, and am a big fan of Naot shoes. They have several styles of low heels that I think would be quite court appropriate. (The Artiste, Hope and Pleasure styles come to mind.)

      Because my feet hurt all the time, I think comfort trumps style in certain medical cases. Fashionistas may disagree, but if they had a chance to walk a mile (heck, even a block!) in my shoes, they might see the light.

        1. Me too! Thanks for the link, Louise. Crazy feet problems here (and different sized feet on top of that, sigh!) so this one’s definitely getting bookmarked.

      1. Thanks all for the helpful replies! Anon, I believe I have the same mary-jane style Dansko. I’ve worn them *to* work (from parking lot, up several flights of steps) but can’t bring myself to wear all day — although it seems we think similarly — I wear pantsuits (that’s the most casual thing I wear) and the clogs seem just a bit too casua. Although, Kady, I admire the partner who does. When I’m in a secure, high-level position I hope to do the same!!

        Louise I’ve bookmarked the barkingdog blog, and will check out Naot, thanks!

    4. Dansko makes boots too. I have the Dansko Scout boot and wear it all the time to work. It has the clog sole but the boot looks more professional.

      My only gripe about Danskos is that they seem to scuff very, very easily.

    5. There are some supportive flats out there- Born comes to mind and has some cute flats. I also have some from Dillard’s Nurture line that are quite cute and comfy. I think those would be preferable to clogs with suits, and probably more comfortable than heels.

  30. I don’t think you can do the clogs with a pantsuit. What kind of heels have you been wearing? Have you tried a low wedge? I don’t think flats have enough support, but something like the Ecco Boullion might work. Nordstrom has these on sale

    http://shop.nordstrom.com/s/ecco-bouillon-slip-on/3132691?cm_cat=datafeed&cm_ite=ecco_%27bouillon%27_slip-on:269803_1&cm_pla=shoes:women:flats&cm_ven=Froogle&mr:referralID=NA&mr:trackingCode=4A55BE6A-1968-DF11-9DA0-002219319097

    1. balancing act–thanks for the link, those are cute! I have been wearing 2 1/2 inch to 3 inch heels by Clarks & Sofft. Maybe just need to go down in heel height.

  31. Quick Talbot’s review, since I know many of us love to find a good work-appropriate A-line skirt: I just ordered the Poplin Full Skirt in black — link below — after trying on the pink in-store. Note to Talbot’s: why did you only stock the bright pink and green colors in-store, and not the other three very office-appropriate ones??

    I didn’t like how the skirt hit so low on the models’ legs in the catalog so tried the petites. I am 5’4 and an hourglass – usually take a 4, sometimes 6 at J.Crew – and the 2 petite fit perfectly and hit just at the knee.

    http://www.talbots.com/online/browse/product_details.jsp?id=prdi25906&mode=search&backurl=%2Fonline%2Fsearch%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fquestion%3Dpoplin%26trail%3D%26pageNum%3D0%26addFacet%3DSRCH%253Apoplin%26removeFacet%3D

    1. Thank you so much for posting. I have completely given up on finding work clothes this last year, at any price point!

  33. Anyone have thoughts on interview watches? I know the prevailing opinion is that wearing a watch is a good idea during an interview (and during important client meetings, etc.) since it shows you’re responsible and timely, etc. But it also is another way to judge a person’s wealth – all the watches I have are of the cloth- or plastic-band variety, and I’m not convinced it’s a great idea to drop a bunch of money on a fancy one just to impress people/win hearts and minds. Any suggestions for a good brand or type to wear that’s not psychotically expensive but will still make a good impression?

    1. I like Skagen and Citizen Eco Drive watches. They’re not too expensive and you can find one that’s appropriate for this scenario.

    2. A nice, stainless steel Fossil (or similar) watch is perfectly fine and under $150. No need to drop a ton of money. I do think a pretty, silver or gold-colored watch looks professional and is a good addition to an interview outfit.

      1. Agreed. I can’t imagine an interviewer having the time or energy to be scrutinizing your watch to see how “upscale” it is. As long as your overall appearance is neat, professional and appropriate for an interview, you will be fine with a simple watch with a metal or black leather band.

        I don’t even agree that a watch is necessary for an interview. As long as you’re on time for the appointment, there should be no reason for you to check the time once you are face to face with the interviewer. Whether you glance at your wrist or your cell phone, looking like you have someplace else to be is not good form. Once the interview is over, if someone sees you checking your phone in the lobby, that is fine. Punctual is punctual; how you get there doesn’t seem important to me.

    3. I’d actually just mention that if you don’t wear watches on a regular basis, I’d try wearing one for a day or two before you wear one to an interview. Do you find yourself checking it a lot? Then don’t wear it to the interview, because you may unconsciously check it while talking to people and that would be very, very bad.

      This is why I don’t wear watches to interviews…I know what I would do. Only after the fact would I kick myself.

  34. Can someone tell me if I am being too judgmental? I spent $200 getting my fiancee a new Michael Kors watch for Valentines Day/Birthday, and he did not give me anything back because he says Valentines Day is too commercial for him. I would not have spent all that money on him if I were to get nothing in return. We are to be married in August, and I am not sure now that I even want to be married to him for being so thoughtless. Last year, he gave me flowers and chocolate, but nothing this year. I do not know whether this is an omen that I should break it off now before it is too late. Help!

    1. Yikes. If it bothers you that much, I can’t help but wonder if there’s something deeper going on in the relationship. I might have written this off as a disappointed rant — but V day was two weeks ago! I had to seriously think about what it was my hubby and I had done for V day. If it is still bothering you so much you have to vent about it, then you should talk to him about it. If the failure to give a V day gift is actually the only thing wrong and you’re nonetheless seriously thinking it’s a reason to break off the engagement… then my guess is you don’t really want to marry this person.

      1. I second this. Linda, I don’t think your concerns are really about Valentine’s day. I think it’s likely there are much deeper problems.

    2. “Judgmental” isn’t the word I would use, but perhaps you haven’t been clear with each other about your expectations surrounding holidays. Now that it has been several weeks since Valentine’s day, perhaps you can sit down calmly and have a discussion. Ask him what his family traditions are around birthdays, anniversaries, Christmas, Hannukah, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, high school/college graduation, and any other gift-giving times. Tell him how your family handles them. Find common ground.

      The real crux of this is how he reacts when you tell him how you feel. Does he blow you off? Say you shouldn’t care about a “commercial” holiday? Belittle your feelings in any way? Those can be red flags.

      But if he truly doesn’t do the Valentine’s thing and this was just a misunderstanding, being clear about how you two will compromise about it in the future is a great way to make things better. After all, you can’t have a future together without many, many conversations about what is important to you.

      Not giving gifts isn’t necessarily a bad sign. My husband and I don’t exchange gifts on any occasion, none, zero, zilch. But he is very generous with his time and money in other ways, such as being willing to splurge on fancy dinners and really nice vacations. I never feel deprived and always feel loved.

      1. I agree with Louise – you need to talk, calmly, about expectations. My SO is also completely anti-“manufactured holidays” and at the top of his list is Valentine’s Day. He hates being told what to do or feel because to him it feels fake, and Valentine’s Day is the worst because even the gift itself is chosen by Hallmark & co. – flowers/chocolates/lingerie/jewelry. And after years of pressure and unpleasantness surrounding the gift giving holidays in my own family, we talked about our feelings regarding holiday gifts and agreed that we’d like to do things our own way.

        So for us, no gifts on official holidays. Instead, one of us randomly gives a gift to the other when the mood strikes – I may see a really nice sweater on sale that I know he’ll love, so why wait until the next holiday to give it to him, or wait to buy it until it’s closer to official gift giving time, and then will be gone or not on sale? And he will bring home my favorite flowers on a Tuesday in March because he felt like it. Each time, the giver gets “nothing in return.”

        I think you should consider whether you are too narrowly focused on a single 24-hour period. Was he especially nice to you at some point before 2/14? Some point after 2/14? Considering you are engaged, I would hope so. If it’s very important to you that you receive the obligatory gift on 2/14, you need to communicate that, and he should listen to your feelings. But also consider his feelings that Valentine’s Day is “too commercialized” and be receptive to his displays of affection in other ways or on other days. Try to talk it out and see what happens.

    3. Hmm, it sounds like you guys have issues that are larger than Valentine’s Day. Is this part of a larger pattern?

    4. This is perhaps missing the point a bit on my part, but you say the watch was combined V-day/birthday for him. When was your last birthday, and what did he get you? Maybe you’re still “even” if you consider the value of your birthday gift alone.

      (FWIW, my boyfriend is also “opposed” to gift giving anytime Hallmark tells him to, including the December holidays and he won’t back down. He is very generous otherwise – e.g., with travel, dinners out, entertainment, but just doesn’t do holiday gifts. I’ve found this very frustrating, but I’ve come to peace with it. He also doesn’t “believe” in giving flowers – ever – because they just die. I’ve gotten a few plants over the years but still wish he could get over his opposition to flowers.)

    5. Is your problem with V day or is it because this behavior is typical? If he’s never doing anything for you, holidays or not, then I think that’s definitely a sign of a bigger problem. If he’s spontaneous about doing nice things for you and simply refuses to participate in manufactured holidays, I don’t see any reason for concern. A lot of people really do not care to buy overpriced bouquets or go out for fixed menus that would cost 1/3 the price the weekend prior for the very reasons you’re mentioning. People make too much of it and complain if a gift is too small, but others will get annoyed that the SO is spending too much. It’s really a no-win situation for the member of a couple who prefers not to participate if the SO is just obsessed about keeping track of spending in that fashion.

    6. Well, let me give you this perspective. My husband and I have never celebrated Valentine’s Day in our relationship, in 15 years, and never will. My husband does random nice things for me all the time – gets me flowers, gives little gifts, makes me CDs, rubs my back/feet, takes my car to the shop for me – so I don’t feel the need to needle him about making a holiday like Valentine’s Day (which has no particular special meaning for us) “wonderful” for me. I feel our anniversary is a more important day for us, and so if we’re going to do a big celebration, that’s the day I want to do it.

      I have seen among my female friends that the ones who put the most emphasis on Valentine’s Day and their anniversary are the ones who are doing what I call “begging for scraps” – they get so little consideration and attention during the year that getting something (anything) on those days becomes a make-or-break issue. If this is how you feel about your relationship – you feel neglected most of the time, and so it’s a big, big deal if your fiance skips Valentine’s Day – then you should definitely not get married to him, because it won’t change after you get married.

      If, however, he is kind and considerate and attentive most of the time, and he just doesn’t like Valentine’s Day – then I’m sorry to say, but you need to get over yourself. In the scheme of things, his not wanting to make a big deal out of Valentine’s Day is not going to kill your relationship unless YOU make it into a big issue. I understand the inequity-in-gift-giving thing; that has happened to me before and it is annoying. Notice I say “annoying,” not “a relationship deal-breaker.” Whenever that has happened to us, my husband more than makes up for it in some other way, on some other occasion. If you are seriously considering canceling your wedding over this, I think either A. you are not that attached to this guy, you are having second thoughts and this has become a convenient excuse to consider breaking it off or B. you aren’t mature enough to get married, because in mature relationships, people talk out this kind of misunderstanding. They don’t go into a huff and then pout about it. And from someone who knows, trust me – there are far more serious issues that will confront you over the course of your marriage. If you can’t handle something like this with maturity and open communication – yikes.

    7. If you’re considering getting married, and you can’t just talk to him about this, you should break it off. Not because you didn’t get a present, but because you can’t communicate about things that are important to you.

    8. My bf didn’t get me anything for Valentine’s Day. You know what? I’m fine with that. My bf works extremely hard – he works full-time at the office and then goes to school in the evenings at the local university to get his degree. On Valentine’s Day he had an exam for a really tough class that he’s been giving alot of attention to. Add to that the fact that he falls into the “Valentine’s Day was invented by Hallmark” crowd. So he didn’t do anything, partially out of his own apathy towards the holiday, partially out of just being too busy/focused to think about it.
      I like Valentine’s Day – I don’t really care if a big deal is made out of it. But I did get him a gift. He’s been particularly wonderful and generous with me the past year (putting up with me during my last semester of law school and while studying for the bar and getting me some very lovely and costly gifts for graduation and my birthday/bar passage) and I just wanted to do something nice for him.
      If Valentine’s Day is supposed to be about showing the people you love that you do love them, well, you should be doing that the other 364 days of the year. If he’s the kinda of man that does nice things for you and is giving to you other days of the year, then I’d say you have nothing to worry about. But do talk to him. Tell him what you want and see if you can meet somewhere in the middle.

  35. This thread is probably dead, but I’ll give a few thoughts. I’m married to an engineer, and his “sweetness” is a little different than what most women would traditionally consider “thoughtful”. Over our dating years and marriage, I’ve learned that he really does think of me, and it doesn’t matter if it costs a lot of money or not. One year, he made me a program that shows different pictures of flowers every time you hit refresh, and this year, we decided to “exchange” tickets to the symphony. It’s not about him spending money to get me the perfect gift from a boy to a girl, it’s about him spending time/thoughts to get the perfect gift from him to me. If your fiance never attempts to do special things for you in his own way, from him to you, then I would seriously consider whether you two are compatible. If the most meaningful gifts to you are on “official” holidays, you have to let him know that. But, you also have to be willing to see the non-traditional thoughtfulness of your fiance if that’s what he most prefers to give. It’s a give and take, but it is built on communication!

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