What Clothes Do You Buy Again and Again?

Happy Monday, ladies! Let’s talk about those clothing pieces that you buy over and over again — those gems that become your perennial favorites, the ones that are always available for sale (albeit, perhaps, in new colors). Here on the site we’ve discovered a few — “THE skirt” from Nordstrom (and the Frenchi shrunken cardigan blazer from the junior’s department), the Target wedges, the Kate Spade Halle wedges… I might also include the Tory Burch Simone cardigan, and perhaps this ruched faux wrap dress from Suzi Chin… what else? My friend Auntie M wrote about her must-have Amber Sun pants (which are now back in stock, incidentally) — what are your must-haves?

Pictured below, some of the must-haves we’ve talked about here on the blog… (we’ve also talked about your favorite tops under suits as well as your favorite comfortable heels…)



(P.S. Unintentionally, many of these pieces are available at Nordstrom — do you guys consider that to be the department store you go to for “classics” or is it just coincidence? Perhaps that’s another discussion entirely, where you go when you’re looking for __ type of clothes…)


  1. housecounsel :

    Oh, the Skirt, the beloved Skirt. I asked this below but it is waiting in moderation. I bought it in teal and in mustard yellow and it is AMAZING. I have a print blouse with camel and ivory and mustard, the same brand, that I plan to wear with the mustard yellow, but what, then, is my Third Piece, and what do I wear on my legs?

    My Tory Burch wedges in black are a major staple. J.Crew suiting is still my trusted friend in all situations, too.

    The older I get, the less I shop anywhere but Nordstrom.

    • Corporate Tool :

      I’d suggest a neutral sweater and similar shoe. So dove grey sweater and grey or nude shoe? You could also work a deep chocolate sweater/jacket and brown boots (yay for boot season).

    • Add a statement accessory or cardigan in a deep purple or teal.

    • You guys are dangerous – I just bought The Skirt – my first one, and I ordered 2 more!!!

  2. Diana Barry :

    I haven’t ever bought clothes at Nordstrom. I do buy bras there.

    For suits – J crew, BR (less often), and Theory (only have one but love it!).
    For t-shirts – J crew “perfect fit” tee for cotton. BR “luxe tee” or the modal equivalent for synthetic. Occasionally Forever 21 for really cheap ones. ThinkGeek for statement tees.
    Shoes – Nine West, Cole Haan, and a cobbler for stretching around the bunion. Also, Zappos!!
    Fun dresses and skirts – Boden.
    Blazers (non suit/matching) – J crew, Boden, BCBG.

  3. Ballerina Girl :

    Can we talk a bit about THE skirt and sizing? It runs big, but does it also seem to run long? Does it stretch out a lot over time? I’m 5’3″, 120-125 lbs (depending on the day!), bought the 6 reg and was swimming in it. Trying for the 6 petite now. Dare I go to the 4?

    • I’m 5’5″ 125 and wear the regular 2. I think you’d be fine in the 4P.

    • MissJackson :

      Thanks for asking this. I think I missed the beginning discussion of The Skirt, and have tried going back to find talk of fit, but failed. I see from the Nordstrom reviews that it runs big.

      I’m solidly an 8 in the JCrew pencil skirt. Do I really need a 6? I was going to try to get to the local Nordstrom to try on (apparently my local store only carries it in black – lame) and then order online, but I’m a little panicked today because all 3 of the colors in my Norstrom shopping bag are now sold out (am pouting — really wanted Raisin). Am feeling like perhaps I need to order immediately or risk being entirely out of luck.

      • Yes, I’d guess that you do. I’m a solid 8 in BR & JCrew and I’m wearing either the 6 or 4 in The Skirt.

        • MissJackson :

          Thanks for the quick response. In the few minutes since I asked, yet another color sold out in the 6!

        • MissJackson :

          Thanks for your quick response! In the few minutes since I asked, another color sold out in the 6! I better just order.

      • I’d say, yes. Size down. I’m 5’7, ~130lbs (also depending on the day!),and the 2 fit, but with comfortable room. I’m usually a 4 at all the other stores discussed above. I have ridiculously short legs (even ‘S’ and ‘P’ need heels for me), and the skirt didn’t seem too long. It hits mid-knee, but for a pencil skirt, I like that hem length. ENJOY!

        • MissJackson :

          Thanks! (sorry for the duplicate post above — I got an error, but apparently the first post went through anyway). This is very helpful because I’m 5’4″ and it sounds like the length will be just right for me.

          I got a couple of colors and now I’m excited! I hope I love it as much as the rest of you ladies!

          (And, holy moly, someone might have to help me with styling suggestions because I was feeling really bold and ordered the “Ginger Wine” which looks like it might be roughly traffic-sign-orange. I love orange, but this will be an adventure even for me!)

          • don't need a boyfriend :

            teal? greens? purple if you’re feeling wild? plum/burgundy?

            You might look at boden for some color combinations…

            Hope you like it as much as I do … I must have at least 8 in the total now, spring and fall colors…and one black back up when the current one wears out. Does that even happen?)

            light grey
            dark grey
            cobalt blue

          • MissJackson :

            Very helpful, thanks!! I’ll have to play around when it arrives, but I really like the burgundy idea!

      • Here’s the original post on The Skirt:


    • I think Halogen runs large in general, so sizing down for the skirt makes sense (even in petites).

      I recently ordered, and returned, a Halogen jacket in XSP. I laid it over the regular XS to compare and found that the only difference was that the sleeves were shorter. Very disappointing.

    • I am 5 ft 4, 120 lbs. I have it in a size 2P. Fits great. Wearing it today.

    • anonymous :

      I just saw that Halogen has a high waisted pencil skirt out now. I’m about 5’7″ with most of my height in my torso — very short legs, especially in the thigh. I have heard that a higher waist with a hem above the knee should help balance out my frame. Does anyone have experience with that? With all the “modern” fit skirts and pants, most of my wardrobe is well below my natural waist.

  4. Anonymous :

    Anyone own this?


    • I bought and returned it. The material was very nice but the dress is cut VERY straight. It was very tight in the hips yet very baggy in the waist.

      • I’ve returned everything I ever bought from Boden (tight hips, baggy waist) for this reason.

        • Diana Barry :

          For those of us who are straighter – I have about a 9 inch difference between hips and waist – Boden fits well. I like dresses to be a little bit bigger in the waist anyway.

          Haven’t tried that particular dress, though.

    • Yes, I bought it and really love it. I had to get some alterations done to the top (the reviews are accurate its really really narrow throught the hips but oddly roomy on top.) I got it on super sale though so spending about another $35 on alterations was really worth it.

      I got it in purple and I think its the perfect combination of a conservative dress in a fun color. I am keeping my eyes on the teal long sleeved version for when that goes on sale.

      Also, for reference I am 5’10” and usually take an 8T in boden dresses. Their dresses usually fit me well off the rack. This is the first time I’ve ever had to get one altered.

    • I own this, and it’s definitely a little tight on me around the hips. If your hips are wider than your waist, you might want to size up and get alterations done.

  5. Lana Lang :

    I WANT The Skirt – it was on my shopping list when I was last in the US, but couldn’t find it in an actual store, so it was a distant dream. Very sad.

    On an entirely unrelated note, I have recently joined a gym – hurrah! I have tried it a couple of times before, but never really enjoyed it, but this time (so far) I have really really liked it, although it is early days. I started Couch to 5k which really appeals to my over-achiever mentality and am alternating it with various classes and so far so good.

    I trust that Corporette has many seasoned gym-goers so I would love to hear your tips for gym-grooming, as I am going in the mornings before work (Big Law, too unpredictable for evenings and if I do finish early enough I want to eat food/do something social and not go to the gym). I am a little vexed by the sheer volume of things that I will need to carry around with me, but I am also practical enough to know that going home to get ready carries the potential for time-wasting and I would rather get it all done quickly. Therefore, what are your must-have gym-grooming accessories? What tricks do you use to make it all go faster/more efficiently in the gym? How do you minimise the volume of things to be carried around? I am thinking travel-sized products, but going 2-3 a week I can see I would have to replenish really frequently!

    • MissJackson :

      Does your gym have the option to rent a locker (on a permanent basis)? That helped me immensely — I just bought a duplicate set of all of my daily-use products. It was expensive up front, but saved me a lot of time and frustration. Otherwise, does your firm have a shower? If so, maybe you could keep a duplicate set of stuff there? (I know that there are people who run in the morning and then use my firm’s shower).

      • Lana Lang :

        This is a great idea (re hiring out a locker) and I will definitely ask about it.

        My firm does have showers, but the idea of running into partners/co-workers in the changing room in my gym gear strikes me as a little icky so I think I will stick to showering at the gym…

        • I work out every morning before work and am able to carry the basics without it feeling cumbersome. I have my second set of shampoo, conditioner, face wash, and body soap that I’m just keep in my gym bag. I mostly wax everything so I don’t have to worry about shaving. I have a small make up bag that’s made up of mostly sample sizes. I do shower at work because the convenience beats running into partners and co-workers so I just do it anyway. The biggest drag is that I have to bring my own towel, but it’s manageable.

        • Anonymous :

          Also…I don’t work out or shower at work, but if you run into a colleague in the locker room, then you are both seeing each other in athletic apparel or towel. It’s not like you’ll be in a room full of smartly dressed colleagues while you’re still in a tank top and pants, blowdrying your hair.

    • For minimizing the volume of things, I bought empty travel-sized containers and filled them with my regular products – this way I can replenish them at home as needed. I don’t carry things that I’m not picky about (e.g., cotton balls, deodorant (my gym has a spray one that is perfectly fine), disposable razors, etc.). I also have certain things that are dedicated for the gym so I don’t have to constantly pack/unpack my bag (like, a toothbrush and toothpaste, a comb, sunscreen, etc.). I don’t wear a lot of makeup, so my makeup routine is pretty short and easy (and also easy to carry).

  6. The problem is that everything changes. Wardrobe staples for me are pencil and a-line skirts, sheath dresses and cashmere cardigans of a nice length. I prefer the non-sweaters to be made of worsted wool or wool crepe, but I often can find only rayon in petite sizes.

    Every shopping trip is a new, expensive, spirit-dampening adventure. As a result, I’m trying to learn how to sew for myself — not that it’s easy.

    • I’ve never been inside a Nordstrom or ordered from one. As a New Yorker, all the name means to me is big suburban department store that I think is less expensive than Nieman Marcus (which I’ve never been in either).

      • semi-anon :

        Did you mean for that to sound snotty?

        • Anonymous :

          Or, even kind of sweetly pretending-to-be-snotty? Like a little girl aiming for grown-up cool. A New Yorker? My goodness. Dazzling.

          Eloise, is that you?

      • So?

      • Giving you the benefit of the doubt. It’s a higher-end department store; just a notch below NM but several thousand notches above Macy’s. It especially caters to professional women in the 75K+ income bracket. Hence the popularity on this site. It basically sets the gold standard in customer service.

        • I love Nordstrom and every time I travel to the US, I make sure it is the first store I step foot in. Agree with J, their customer service is the best.
          I show up with a list of items I need and a set budget. Believe me, they will spend hours with you until you find everything you need to your taste and within your budget.

      • Anonymous :

        I don’t get it. Do they not have Nordstrom in NYC?

        As a Chicagoan, I order from Nordstrom all the time, but have never been inside of one b/c I cannot be bothered to go there in person – not because I think of it as a suburban place. Though I have never been to one, I am sure there are 2-3 Nordstroms in the city and close to transit.

        • Alanna of Trebond :

          No, there is no Nordstrom in NYC. I actually think the Macy’s in NYC is *amazing* and I like it a great deal more than the Macy’s in my hometown (and even more than the old Hechts). I think I prefer Bloomingdales and Neiman Marcus (which is incidentally the same company as Bergdorfs, I think) to Nordstrom — I have an easier time with both their websites, but I don’t shop much in person in either. There is no Neiman Marcus in NYC, but there is a Bloomies.

          • Yep, Macy’s Herald and Union Square stores are 1000% different from your local Macy’s!

      • I have $80 in Nordstrom Notes right now, thank you Nordstrom debit card. Nordstrom is awesome.

        Also, Nordstrom is opening/opened a concept store in NYC and it donates a the store’s profit to charity.


      • I just moved from NYC to the suburbs of Boston, and everyone keeps encouraging me to shop at Nordstrom. I’ve tried – oh, I’ve tried. Wonderful salespeople, lovely layout, but – I have spent HOURS in there, trying on dozens of pieces, and have bought maybe 2 or 3 things. Everything seemed frumpy, predictable and poorly-made. There were some standouts – a gorgeous Rag & Bone blazer with elbow patches ($450!), some cute Tory Burch stuff ($$$!!!), but you can find that kind of high-end merchandise in Neiman Marcus or Saks or Bloomingdales. I don’t get the Nordstrom appeal at all – it might be a “suburban” aesthetic that I’m objecting to, but with this many Corporettes loving it, maybe I’m just missing something.

  7. I have the most amazing pair of Delman Mirin wedges – black suede with a patent toecap, and a 2.5″ heel which is perfect for walkability and height!

    J.Crew often has some nice heels around the same height, and some great sales online. It’s always a struggle to find shoes that aren’t flat, ridiculously high, or really ugly. Theory separates and suits are great standbys too and they have sample sales a few times a year.

    • For shoes, I often buy Ferragamos or Beautifeel, although I worry that the latter look cheap. http://www.beautifeel.com

  8. Maddie Ross :

    I second (third, fourth…) the Skirt as a great staple. My go-tos for suits are J.Crew and BR. Lately I’ve had good luck with Talbots suits as well, though I know some are put off by the unlined pants (which don’t bother me for some reason). For black pants, I’ve been really happy with the Gap perfect trouser, which I buy in the long version. The fit is flattering, if not slightly non-descript, but in general, when I’m wearing black pants, it’s because my top is louder or more colorful. For shoes, I’m obsessed with the Ann Taylor perfect pump. I have 6 different versions (platform and non-platform, patent, regular leather, slingback and booty).

    The one item I have yet to find is great layering tanks in a solid color, silk blend. I have a black one from Target of all places that gets frequent wears. I’d love suggestions, preferably less than $40 or so.

    • Brand Spanking New Public Defender :

      2nding Ann Taylor Perfect Pump. I have 3 pairs now. They often go on sale for $100…and then you can wait for the 40% sales…

    • third on AT perfect pump. I have 4 variations.

    • So I’ve been interested in the Ann Taylor pump for a while now. What’s so great about them? They look really pretty…but I’ve love to hear more info about fit, feel, comfort, etc. Thanks!!

  9. Little Lurker :

    Nordstrom has been so good to me that it has earned all the free PR it gets.

    Bat Mitzvah Dress, Prom Dress, HS Graduation Dress, First Professional Heels, and 90% of my lingerie

    • :-) That was really cute.

    • Little Lurker :

      Er, upon reflection it was actually my mother whose outfit came from Nordies on the Day I Became A Woman, but the point stands.

    • Turtle Wexler :

      I’d like to add my signature to this petition – you can list me as “Replaced year-old bag when it tore; Replaced and discounted three-month-old bag when it tore; Exchanged three-month-old, several-times-worn-and-washed jeans when they stretched.” Their customer service really is incredible.

  10. I really like Brooks’ Brothers for wool twinsets. I tend to wear the cardigans more, but buy the whole twinset for when the other piece is needed (or can wear the shells under a suit). They are kind of pricey, but if you wait til sales you can pick them up pretty reasonably.

  11. My winter work uniform is pretty much straight J.Crew: the 3/4 sleeve “perfect fit” tops and slim-leg corduroys–paired with a cardigan or blazer. Work trousers are incredibly unflattering on me, so the “jean” cut of their cords is a great compromise, and weather-appropriate for New England winters.

    I’m always buying “casual” blazers: usually tweed, corduroy, or cotton, and I wear them with everything–plus as lightweight coats during spring and fall. I tend to go for neutral colored shirts and bright colored jackets or cardigans.

    Summer is sheath dresses or else skirts with sheath tops, by which I mean the shoulder straps/sleeves are 2-3 inches wide. I don’t wear pants from May-October if I can help it.

    Pencil and A-line skirts; I can never resist them. Also, I’m pretty certain that every pair of socks I own is brightly-colored argyle.

    And menswear inspired shoes: brogues, oxfords, loafers, as well as high heels with menswear detailing.

    @LanaLang — THE ANSWER to gym grooming is at Lush. They do a product called a solid shampoo bar. It goes in a tiny tin case and it is soap, shampoo, and conditioner that fits in the palm of your hand. I backpacked through Europe for a month with one, and it was my only non-dental toiletry. They are wonderful and last for ages!

    • LOVE LOVE LOVE LUSH SHAMPOO BARS – not all of them have the shampoo and conditioner in them, but they are all a dream! i’m always singing their praises to others

    • How do you deal with needing to wear proper winter coats over casual jackets? I too have a bunch of casual jackets but find that if I wear them, it’s hard to get my wool coat on… too snug. I don’t have this issue with standard suit blazers but more so with casual jackets since they often have puffed shoulders, ruffles and other details. Any advice?

      • My answer: a shawl or wrap. Of course this may not work if you are in a *really* cold climate, but for fall/spring it works brilliantly. I have a stock of wool and cotton wraps that I bring out for this purpose.

      • I buy my winter coats a size up so they fit over blazers nicely.

      • Yeah, this is a problem. If you’re wearing casual jackets a lot under a coat, you could size up the coat. Both otherwise, they’re tough to wear together.

  12. anon for this :

    Threadjack: any actuaries out there? I’m a recent grad who is taking her first exam (P/1) on Friday, and I’m feeling completely, woefully unprepared right now…would be great to hear from some ladies who are more established in this career!

    • Research, Not Law :

      I’m not an actuary, but studied it in college. (After some informational interviews, I decided the lifestyle wasn’t for me). Just wanted to say good luck on the test! I reviewed the first two, and the first seemed pretty basic. Difficult, but textbook. I’m sure you will do fine once it’s in front of you. :)

    • no advice, but good luck to you!

    • My daddy is an actuary. I’ve sent him your post and hopefully, he’ll ask some of his female colleagues in his office to respond to you. But in case he doesn’t…

      Truly, I’m impressed! The exams are hard, but becoming an ASA and then an FSA will certainly open up doors for you. It provided a great lifestyle for our family – my dad rarely traveled and besides studying for exams, it enabled him to always be around.

      Thinking of you and looking forward to hearing how it goes.

  13. Second the rec for Ann Taylor perfect pump. They are more comfortable and than my Cole Haan’s and are a perfect shape and height. I have…counting in my head…holy cow…TEN versions. Every time a new color comes out, I snap it up.

    • Loooove the ann taylor perfect pump. Its one of the few pumps out there that is cute, comfy, and not ridiculously high.

  14. Anon for this :

    I’m writing this post just in hope that at least one person will respond with something that will comfort me right now… Also is someone could find a thread where this type of situation was discussed. So here is goes. My boyfriend and I have been together for 7 years. We met at 18 during our freshman year or college. After graduating in 2008 we began living together. We stayed in out college town (about 2 hours away from our hometowns). So two Friday’s ago we are cleaning our apartment together and he sits down and starts crying. I knew something was up and he said he didn’t want to be in relationship any longer. Well fast forward a week and he has been sleeping on the couch and is moving into another apartment in our building on 10/1. I don’t have any friends left in the area and I don’t have good enough friends to talk to about what I’m going through. To be honest I’ve only told one friend and my mom about this. I’m heartbroken and feel so lonely. What should I do? I really don’t want this. We really are best friends and he told me he still cares about me and wants to remain best friends. I need advice!? This has all happened so fast. I’m pretty focused on my career… But I find myself thinking about this 24/7, even at work. I don’t want my work to suffer but it already is. Is there a chance he will ever want to be together again? … I’m lost :(

    Sorry for the long rant.

    • Anon for this :

      Sorry for all the typos. I can’t type on my iPhone.

      • Anonymous :

        I’m so sorry – that sucks. I’ve been there, and I know how much you’re hurting. I recommend using whatever Employee Assistance Program you have to get to a therapist stat. You need to talk to someone, and you need to figure out how to minimize the effect on your work and the rest of your life.

      • Things like these are always painful. Just hang in there, you will get through it one step at the time even though it seems impossible right now. It’s very understandable that it influences your work, but that too will change gradually. I wish you all the best.

    • Hang in there! This is going to be really tough but you’ll get through it. You will not remain best friends with your ex. There is a chance you’ll get back together down the road but you need a clean break. Tell him he needs to find a place in a different building so you don’t keep seeing him. If he won’t, move out when your lease is up or move out earlier and get someone to sublet. Sign up for an activity where you’ll at least be around people (fitness class, volunteer etc.). Tell your friends so you can get the support you need. Good luck! You’ll be fine.

      • Agree, agree and agree. A clean break is required. It absolutely stinks – you *want* to see him after all – but it’s needed or it’s so, so difficult to begin to start healing. I agree that doing something, though it might seem like the last thing you want to do, is important too. It’ll hurt (7 years is a long time!), but you will get through it.

    • Whoa…that’s a lot to deal with right now. I can only speak from personal experience. I broke up with my boyfriend after several years together because we were both still young (mid-20s) and had been together since we met at age 18. I just felt we needed time apart and I was going through a major transition and needed to know if this was “right” or not. We ultimately got back together several years later and married and have been married for 5+ years. Those years apart were hard, but I know it was the right decision for us because neither of us were ready to commit then and without the breakup, we were just muddling along. I have another friend who did something similar and they never got back together.

      I say all this because you need to know that really neither of you can predict now whether you end up coming back together or not, but you can try to use this break to figure out who you are apart from him.

      A couple of pieces of practical advice: Try to avoid going places where you have memories with him involved. Make new memories that do not involve him. Living in the same building is likely going to suck — I would take active steps to avoid the “run-in” with him. Stay busy — even if you have to join a knitting or Portuguese class.
      Sending you positive thoughts.

    • So sorry, *hugs* being sent your way.

      This may be the post you’re referring to, the thread starts with the second post by Ses.

    • Anon, I’m so sorry. That must be heart-breaking and so, so hard. There was a thread along these lines recently, of going through a break-up and keeping it together at work. I just can’t remember when.

      The only advice I can give you is this: muscle through the next few weeks (maybe months). It will hurt, sometimes badly. But if he does not want a romantic relationship with you, then IMO, it’s better to pull off the band-aid now than to continue on. You two have been together for a very long time and it’s possible you’ve grown in different directions. Nothing wrong with either of you, just that you don’t quite “fit” the same way together any more. It’s hard and sad … but there’s nothing wrong with either of you.

      As for the chance that he may want to be together again — only he can speak to that, and I’m guessing, not right now. I would tell him that you still love him and hope he changes his mind, once. Once he moves out, I suspect that on-going contact is going to keep re-breaking your heart. Let him move out, let him figure out what he wants and start moving on with your life. Maybe he will come back, but I strongly recommend you DON’T bank on that now, instead treat it as a wonderful surprise if it does happen.

      Also — reach out to your friends, even if not in the area. Maybe reach out to a therapist, if you need a safe place to talk/cry, at least in the short term. Go visit your parents. Start building a life without him, as horribly awful and painful as that may seem right now.


    • Ballerina Girl :

      Oh, I’m so sorry, that’s the absolute worst. Seven years is a long time to be with someone–but you are both still very young and could take some time apart to see how you feel. There are no rules in any of this–you could get back together or decide you’re better off apart. That said, you may realize that your boyfriend is right and that this is for the best.

      In the mean time, treat yourself well and cut yourself some slack. It’s normal you’d be thinking about this nonstop in the beginning. Can you take a long weekend and go somewhere? Visit family?

      • So sorry... :

        I went through a similar think almost exactly this time last year, it really does get easier, I promise! I’m sure you don’t want to post your city but if you’re in Baltimore I’d love to buy you a drink… or feel free to email if you just want an email friend to vent to…

        • Anon for this :

          I wish I was in Baltimore so I could take you up on that. I’m in PA.

          • MissJackson :

            Based on your description of “college town” I’m guessing that you’re not in Pittsburgh — but if I’m wrong and you are, let me know because I will absolutely buy you a drink.

          • I’m in the Philly area and I can completely relate to you!

        • So sorry... :

          Guess the drink invite is useless without an email address… [email protected]

          And did I really just steal someone’s handle from the same thread? Guess I should just focus on working ;)

      • Ditto — if you’re in DC, I’m happy to buy you a drink.

        • Ditto on the drink if you’re in or near SF. What a rough situation. I agree that talking to a therapist might be really helpful. My best friend in law school and I used to send each other good vibes over the internet – here are some for you: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~!

    • I’m very sorry for what you’re going through; it’s the worst.
      No matter what happens with the relationship going forward, I promise you that you will feel better. Don’t beat yourself up for dwelling on it; do the best you can and just believe that it’ll get better and easier.

    • Sending hugs your way. It’s really hard, especially the first few months. I had a realtionship with the same timing (started dating at 18, moved away together, broke up at 25). Ultimately, it all worked out – I’m now happily married to someone else. But right after the break-up, it’s awful and it’s all you can think about. I found it impossible to concentrate on school or anything else. I remember wanting to just go to sleep for a year. Just know that time heals everything, and that you can and will get through this. If you’re meant to get back together, you will. But if you’re not, be grateful that this is happening now and not years from now, when you’re married and/or have children. Do tell someone at work though – if you can, let your boss know. When you’ve been with someone that long, it’s almost like a mini-divorce. People will understand and be supportive. Many of them have gone through similar periods in their own lives. Hang in there!

    • I’m so sorry. I’ve had long term relationships end (on the receiving end), and it’s hard. My advice to you is do not actually be best friends with him. I know it’s tempting, and he still lives close by, and he knows you so well, but….. you won’t begin healing unless you stop contact (at least temporarily). I don’t know anyone who has been able to transition from a relationship into a close, platonic, totally-cool-if-you-date-someone-else friendship overnight.

      Also, find a new place if you can – as soon as you can get out of your lease. You need to move away from seeing him every day. And as someone else suggested, perhaps finding a therapist to at least work through the immediate pain would be a good idea. I have a friend who got back together with her college boyfriend after ~5 years apart, so it can happen. But, like other people said, don’t bank it.

      Do make the time to be good to yourself right now. After he moves out, maybe take a day or two off work and lay around in your pj’s, cry, eat a bunch of takeout and ice cream, watch movies, and take a mental health day. Go to a yoga class, take a walk, read some trashy novels. And then pick yourself up and realize that the next day will be slightly easier.

    • *Hugs* – I am so sorry to hear this. I was in a very similar situation. I had the same BF starting from 17 and we were together until I was 25. We went as far as getting engaged – but then I backed out. We both knew it wasn’t going to work though. The next few months will be really really hard, especially since you are not just mourning the loss of a boyfriend, but of a bestfriend too (as you indicated). I agree with some of the other ladies here that you need distance and time to heal. Cut off communication – does not have to be forever, but for a while until you have gotten over the pain, do so. It is going to be very hard to do that if you are in the same building so I really would try to see if he or you could move somewhere else. A day will come when things will feel much brighter – I promise. My break up was hands down the best thing that ever happened to me…but at the time it was sooo painful. I suggest joining classes to get your mind off things – maybe foreign language, exercise, ballroom dance? Anything fun. Even if it feels like you will never get through this right now, hang in there…you will. We are routing for you!

    • Anon for this :

      Thank you everyone! I will try my best to follow everyone’s advice. I used to go to ballet barre at a gym that is on my block.. I am going to strt going again. I have about 10 trashy novels that I bought when Borders was closing.. So I will read those to pass some time and get my mind off everything.

      Im out the door at 7am and he doesn’t go to work until 9..I’m home around 7 and he has evening appointments. We also use 2 different entrances to the building and elevators. It’s a big building with about 200 tenants. I have to stay here until my lease is up on 12/1. I don’t think we’ll see each other more than 2x’s a month.

      Thanks again. I kept thinking it won’t get better but not I’m looking forward for when it does.

      • Are you in Philly? I get that sense from you mentioning barre and Border’s closing. If you are, us Philly Corporettes should organize a meet-up! I’ve included my email if anyone is interested! Hang in there! If you are in Philly, you will probably have good luck finding someone to sublet your place (if your ex ends up staying in your building.) Luckily, it’s a big enough city that you can probably avoid running into him for a while (as per advice above.)

        • Anon for this :

          I wish I was in Philly. It would be much easier to keep busy if I was. I am about 2 hours north of Philly in Northeastern PA. The area I live in is very safe and I wouldn’t really feel comfortable living in any other part of this city. I’m going to ask my building manager if I can get a 6 month extension on my lease. If by June I’m still in this state I am just going to move back home to the NYC area. Thanks again for everyone’s advice and comfort. I know that everyday is suppopsed to be easier, but it is getting harder. I believe what everyone said and am just looking forward to being myself again.

    • The same thing happened to me. I’m so sorry you have to go through this. My approach was to give him space (i.e. no phone calls, texts, demanding long conversations about why etc.) but to make it clear to him that I want to make the relationship work if he’s willing to put the effort in. I explained that the years of love and caring for each other won’t vanish overnight, and that it was worth something at one time, and shouldn’t be thrown away. And then I let him go. Because really, you can’t force someone to stay with you. After a few agonizing days, he came back told me that he didn’t want to leave but wasn’t sure he could stay, and I suggested therapy. We went to therapy. Turns out he was depressed about work, I wasn’t as supportive as I should have been, he cheated (!!) and felt guilty about it, we hadn’t been having sex ever, etc. etc. etc. We worked through all of it, and are married today. BUT at the time I was willing to walk away. At the time I saw myself surviving the loss, and I think that is what made it work for me. If I had pursued him too much, it would have scared him away I think. The fact that I just told him that I was willing to make it work, but then backed off and gave him space, I think that made all the difference for me.

      I hope you are able to manage during this time. I know how hard this can be, and how impossible it is to concentrate on anything else, and how earth shattering it can feel. Try not to tell too many more people, but lean on the people you have told. And make sure you take care of yourself physically and mentally.

      • Anon for this :

        Thank you for the great advice. That’s great to hear you’re happily married now. I’m trying to avoid communication as beat as possible. However with such a quick move on his part we are trying to divide furniture and figure out how to wrap up all our bills (utilities, parking spaces, etc.). I’m trying to be as strong as I can around him. Thanks again everyone.

  15. Happy Monday! :

    Staples for me are Calvin Klein sheath dresses, Theory ANYTHING (seriously, nothing fits better than Theory on my body), Rock and Republic jeans, CH shoes, Kate Spade bags, Tahari suits. JCrew for the shells, shirts, pencil skirts, etc. to fill in the rest of my wardrobe. Doesn’t hurt that there is a JCrew across the street from my office building that I have to walk by on the way home.

    This isn’t a fashion staple, but for those women, like me, who have that awkward “not quite curly not quite wavy but halfway in between” thick long hair, the Aveda “go curly” line. It is the only thing that can make my hair do . . . well . . . anything reasonable.

    • I also like the Aveda straightening stuff for the days that you want to go straight. My hair is thick and wavy in back, curly underneath and straight on top front. :)

      • Wow – somebody else who has my hair! The front is pretty straight, the outermost layer in the back is a little wavy, and the underlayer in the back is really curly. Drives me insane. I’ll have to look for that Aveda straightening stuff.

  16. Ms. No Name. :

    This is perfect for the question I’ve been waiting to ask. What would you ladies wear with the Skirt as pictured above? I have it in the same color (Blue Turq.) and am having a lot of trouble figuring out how to style it. TIA!

    • Anonylawyer :

      I have the SKIRT in 4 colors (black, light purple from the Spring, olive green, and the new fall magenta). I wear it lots of ways. In addition to the obvious white or black (for my colored skirts), I like to find cool prints that pick up the color and tie it together with a neutral cardi. I also love to wear a belt to break up the color line and the blouse. Agreat resource is www.youlookfab.com because a lot of the ladies over there have the SKIRT too. Also blogger at http://www.thedailysophisticate.com has the skirt in a few colors.

    • I have it too, and wore it last week with a black and beige striped cowl neck top and red patent heels. It’d also look good with a magenta pink, mustard if that works with your skin, and a variety of browns. I like the way they have it styled on the website, with a dark brown blouse.

      • don't need a boyfriend :

        I also love how the same saturation of purple and grey make a great combination with the teal. There’s also copper…esp. if you can wear that color glamorously.

    • When I’m wearing a really vivid piece like this, I tend to pair it with things that calm it down a bit for work. Dark gray cardigan/jacket, cream or maybe a pale pink blouse/t-shirt/shell, gray suede boots or heels. Alternatively, this would look lovely with deep purple/plum.

  17. Ekaterin Nile :

    I just ordered the Frenchie shrunken cardigan blazer in black. It was on sale!!!

  18. I am slowly starting to shop almost exclusively at Nordstrom. A few factors contribute to this: (1) customer service cannot be rivaled and I swear every time I buy something at Bloomindales or elsewhere I regret it because it breaks/goes on sale, etc. (2) their online store is amazing and has the best pictures and sorting options, (3) returns are easy because I can walk to Nordstrom from my office, (4) I have no time for the bricks and mortar type shopping anymore, so online ordering is probably 90% of my shopping.

    Oh, also I love my Nordstrom visa card! I get free shipping on every order now, so that is HUGE. I refuse to pay for shipping on clothes anymore.

    • MissJackson :

      Actually, Nordstrom now offers free shipping and returns for everyone! No dollar limit, no exclusions. Again, Norstrom customer service FTW!

    • I want a Nordstrom!! Argh, why do you ladies have to keep going on about it!

      (I hear they’re putting one in about 2 hours away from my town. I’m not sure if I’ll do that, but I might!)

    • Just an FYI – Bloomie’s will price match with Nordstrom. :)

  19. Brooks Brothers non-iron button up shirts. I actually like the Classic Fit best, which a lot of people find boxy, but at 2 sizes down from my usual-ish dress size, it looks tailored without being tight, especially in the upper-arm area.

    Also, thanks to all those who responded to my weekend thread post about being totally overwhelmed. There was a lot of helpful advice, including about rejuvenating through friend time… which I honestly hadn’t thought of because I was so moved to withdraw and hide. Managed to move a few things along over the weekend, and although I still have that tight-chest stress, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Thanks for the support.

  20. here’s what i find myself buying over and over again:

    – tory burch sheath dresses
    – tocca heavy winter wool skirts/dresses/blazers (so warm!)
    – ben sherman and free people sweaters/knits
    – tory burch silk jersey button downs
    – patterned j crew perfect shirts (the silk/cotton blend ones are the best for looking put together in the summer)
    – AG jeans (usually the same stilt cut, which is meant to be cropped but hits me right at my ankle, which i like)
    – anthropologie quirky patterned pencil skirts
    – foley and corinna bags (love the city tote in all sizes)
    – almond toe wedge pumps for work – various brands, but i always buy every color when i find ones i like
    – wide leg dress pants- no other type will do
    – metallic shoes – silver, pewter, burnished gold, so versatile
    – non-fussy flats (usually in a stuble metallic, see above)
    – flowy solid colored silk tops – perfect under a suit or tucked into a patterned skirt
    – lots of opaque tights for the winter – usually black/gray, and jewel tones
    – ankle high flat and heeled boots
    – everything in a particular shade of eggplant purple
    – the same neutrals: navy, a middle shade of gray, various browns
    – texture: i’m a sucker for plaids, houndstooth, herringbone, you name it

    of course, i avoid buying exact dupes, but this is my formula and i always buy more of whatever i’ve listed above, i always know how to style these items so they work seamlessly into my wardrobe.

    • I’m stealing your list. :) Sounds like we have similar tastes.

      • enjoy :) just be sure to get the basics in there somewhere, i struggle with that. there are too many other pretty things to be had and my budget always runs out before i ever buy a basic!

  21. Can anyone comment on the sizing for the Suzi Chin dress? I’m usually either a 6 or an 8 depending on cut – I have large ribs! Thanks!

    • I haven’t worn mine in a few months, but I remember it being tight over the ribs. I’d say try the 8 first, if you’re borderline.

  22. Threadjack – advice.

    Hi ladies, I am looking for words of wisdom on this situation. Last friday a group of co-workers went out for drinks. Most of us in this group joined in the same training class out of college in finance, went through grueling long hours and have known each other for over 4 years, a well trusted group. One of the guys who works in my immediate team and was recently hired joined us later on. In short, he got really drunk and started hitting on me at end of evening. I was wasn’t drunk myself and I am sure I didnot send any such signal. He is married with 2 kids, we work for the same boss and I found him to be genuinely nice helpful co-worker, so this was totally a surprise. My other friends had left by this time and I was about to leave too after taking a call. He pushed me against the wall and tried to kiss and grope, I was freaked out and just got out of there ASAP and took a cab home.

    His desk is very close to mine and today is so AWKWARD. I don’t know how to react, I am just trying to avoid any small talk and appear busy. How do I set this ok? He was my supporter in meetings, always backed me up. I have been taking up more responsibility with manager’s approval in guiding this group, high level design/architecture, day to day monitoring, strategic planning etc. I want this guy on my side, or atleast not sabotage me due to last week’s incident. There are enough people hoping to see me stumble/fail, hardly any women in a similar role. How can I best handle this situation going forward ? Thanks a lot

    • It sounds like you want to reassure him that you forgive him his drunken faux pas (if you do) and that you won’t be taking any action.
      I’d do it by pretending it didn’t happen, unless you have some more explicit conversation which may necessitate reassuring him that it’s forgotten. Kill him with kindness – be nice to him, and professional yet friendly in your interactions. If he brings it up or apologizes, then make it clear that he’s forgiven.

      • I agree except for the kill him with kindness thing so that it isn’t misconstrued as signaling interest in any way. Just pretend it didn’t happen, keep conversations focused on work, and try to project a pleasant tone of voice. In other words, just try to stay below the radar. If he apologizes, be quick about acknowledging and move on. The sooner this passes, the better. Hugs to you though. This sounds AWFUL.

    • Other Options :

      You already know that what he did is totally inappropriate. I work for a very large (13,000 employees) public entity. Here, you would have the following options:

      1. Sexual Harassment/Diversity Office: You could meet with the Director and do either a confidential informal process or a formal process. I would recommend informal, where the Director would then contact him and communicate that what he did made you very uncomfortable, especially because you really value him and his work as a colleague. Usually, things stop here because he knows “someone” is looking and that you’re not afraid to stand up for yourself, but you’ve been private, he knows there is no “record” so he doesn’t feel you wrecked his career, and he knows you value him and his work. (I wouldn’t recommend the formal process, which includes an investigation and potentially discipline.)

      2. Human Resource: similar to the informal process above, except not confidential because it goes in his personnel file.

      3. Ombuds Office: Similar to option 1.

      If you work in a large financial institution, you may have similar options. I would seriously consider it. In my experience, these things don’t stop.

      • I would not do anything official unless you think it will be an ongoing problem. In my experience, if you reject a male co-worker’s advances once, you don’t have to do it again.

        • It wasn’t so much an advance as outright sexual assault…

          • Perhaps I imagined it differently – “pushed me against the wall and tried to kiss and grope” – so I read that as the two of them already being next to the wall, talking rather closely, and everyone else they were with had left for the night. It sounded like one failed attempt to kiss/grab her (I’m getting that from her use of “tried”). If she was into it, that could have been kind of passionate, right? (Or maybe that’s just my own romantic tendencies). But clearly he did not read her right at all. And she described him as a “genuinely nice helpful co-worker.” To me that sounds more like a nice guy screwing up for whatever reason. Based on all that, I don’t think I’d call it a sexual assault.

          • Although the guy still being married really kills the romantic interpretation. At any rate, based on what we know I wouldn’t convict of sexual assault.

          • AnonInfinity :

            I was picturing what you were, ATC. I did not get a sexual assault vibe out of this post… just a severe misunderstanding/awkwardness in the situation. Under some circumstances, these facts could be sexual assault, but under others, I can see how it would be an advance gone wrong.

      • EmpLawyer :

        (assuming you are in the US) Please be aware that if you report it to HR, etc., they will HAVE to investigate. Otherwise, they are setting themselves up for significant liability later on. There’s no such thing as “informally” reporting sexual harassment/assault – which it sounds like this was.

    • I would find an opportunity to acknowledge the incident with him, just so you can move past it. Something like that could just fester and become even more awkward. However, there is also a slight chance that you may open up a can of worms – especially if he goes THERE, i.e. “My wife and I are getting divorced and I’ve always been really attracted to you.” Then you’ll have to reject him, and that may be even worse. But, most guys won’t go THERE – you’re more likely to get the, “Look, I’m really sorry. I was pretty hammered and wasn’t thinking straight. That was rude of me.” And then you can say, “That’s okay, I understand. I assume you got home okay?” and then move on to other subjects, putting the incident to rest (at least for now). At any rate, good luck!

      • Blonde Lawyer :

        I’d do something along this route. I’d walk up and say “look, what you did yesterday was ridiculous but you were being drunk and stupid. Your forgiven this one time. Don’t ever do it again and I’ll pretend it never happened. Deal?”

        • Anonymous :

          Agree with this because when I “pretended it never happened” the guy started a rumor that something happened between us! Ew!

      • I also would go this route. Had something similar happen to me at an associates’ retreat: drunk male coworker who was a friend, tried to kiss me, I pushed him away. The only thing different was that it was in the middle of a bar and filled with about 20 other coworkers/friends. Luckily, all of them saw and realized this wasn’t consensual. It was a little awkward the next day for me, until I realized that the guy was so drunk the night before that he didn’t even remember pulling that stunt.

        I didn’t take any “official” action because it honestly wasn’t a huge deal to me, but I did make it clear that something like that wouldn’t happen again. Good luck for dealing with this – it’s awkward now but eventually it should get better!

    • Hmmm…if it were just hitting on you without the physical stuff, I would tend to agree with the other posters about moving on. But no matter how drunk, pushing you against the wall and trying to force himself on you is not okay. And I know that this is the real world, but it saddens me that you’re worried that you need to be nice to him to prevent him from sabotaging you going forward.

      First question, is he senior to you? I can’t really tell from your post. If he is, that makes this much, much worse. And honestly, I might consider reporting it to HR. No matter how drunk they are, most men are able to stop themselves short of putting a woman in a position where she needs to physically push them away. So if this is something that he is capable of doing, there’s no reason to assume he wouldn’t be capable of doing it again. And in a situation where the outcome may be worse. Possibly with a younger or less assertive co-worker. Maybe even a client.

      I obviously don’t know the specifics of your workplace so you’ll have to judge the best thing to do. But I do think you should think carefully about whether you are comfortable working in an environment where this kind of behavior is okay. Because if you gloss past this now, I think you are accepting that this is what your workplace is like. That might make sense for your industry, but it’s important to consider whether you can handle it long term.

    • Something similar happened to me when I was in my early 20s. A married coworker got very grabby with me at an office happy hour. I did not really address at all after it happened, figuring it was just a drunken mistake on his part. We were still able to work together professionally without any real issues and socially, while we weren’t BFFs, we got along fine. He never brought up that incident again or approached me again once I rejected him.

    • Accountress :

      That is not hitting on you, that is attempted sexual assault. He might be great great co-worker- but he’s not a nice guy. This needs to be reported to HR and you need to have some kind of mediation with him and your HR leader. It is not acceptable behavior, and should be dealt with swiftly and forcefully.

      • Accountress :

        And for everyone who is saying “Pretend it didn’t happen/Forget about it, he was drunk”, please think about how many different women might have been advised to do the same thing regarding the same guy at different (or even the same!) workplaces.

        • Anonymous :

          Yeah, I’m a little shocked and saddened by these responses. If this had happened to me, he would be the one wondering how to explain to his wife, our colleagues and our boss why he had a black eye and/or a broken nose/wrist.

      • I was going to type a reply similar to this, but the OP stated that she prefers to overlook this incident. While I agree that it sounds like a sexual assault, the OP clearly does not feel this way, and I don’t think it’s my place to tell her how she should feel.

        • Hear hear, Ruby.

          If the OP wants to follow it up with something official, she should. But she gets to make that call, not us.

    • This is a sh**ty situation and I am sorry you are dealing with it. Every office is different, but I would definitely not pretend nothing happened.

      That being said, I will tell you that I had to report a similar situation as a summer associate and later as a first year associate (the second one was more of a verbal harrassment). It’s been several years and, while I don’t regret sticking up for myself, I am still feeling the blowback from this. Even though retaliation is illegal, it happens and it is sort of hard to pin down. Also, at least in my experience, retaliation can come from other male colleagues who are mad that you ruined their “fun” or got their buddy in trouble.

    • Original Poster here, thanks a lot ladies for all the helpful advice. I really couldn’t bring this up anywhere else without a lot of judgement. Grew up outside US in a country/culture where women are blamed & shamed in such scenarios. Won’t be taking any official action, dependent on this firm for my immigration sponsorship. Will have to deal with the co-worker using “kill with kindness” line of advice above. Thanks a lot again.

      • OP, glad that you found c-ette supportive. I hope that the US is not a country/culture where you could imagine yourself being at fault for what happened.

        I also completely understand your decision, and I think it also highlights how horribly exploitive the H-1B system can be (I assume that’s your visa status). I think this should be a reminder to those of us who are more secure in our situation (for whatever reason–employment/immigration status) that it’s important to do what we can to ensure a safe and comfortable workplace for all women…especially knowing that not everyone has the luxury of taking the same risks. I have worked in environments where harassment/derogatory statements about women was normal/tolerated and it’s awful. This seems to be more common in industries where women are a small minority, and it helps explain why they remain one.

  23. I do find myself going to Nordstroms ALOT :-/, but Banana Republic, and J. Crew remain my favorite. As a businesswoman I also have find myself not being able to find everything I want in the stores, so I just go ahead and make it myself. I have a site on etsy, angieandwes.etsy.com where I actually sell some items, mainly work wear. I always made my own clothes, and people kept asking me to make them something and this has become a little side job. I had a site that was definitions.etsy.com that has all my feedback but recently changed it to angieandwes.etsy.com because this may break into something bigger. (fingers crossed) LOVE THE BLOG by the way been following for quite sometime

  24. Threadjack. You know, sometimes it helps to type complaints about my coworkers into the comment box and then delete them before not hitting submit.

    Here’s to not getting fired because someone I work with ties a comment here to me.

    • *should have been “before hitting submit.”

    • Good call. It’s good to remember that details can lead back to us too, even if we post “anonymously.”

  25. Different topic – Some of us NYC folks discussed having a meetup on the Weekend Open Thread. If you’re interested, send me an email at [email protected] – I’ll be sending a note out to everyone who emails me later this week.

  26. Any recommendations for Go To Clothes for plus size? I desperately need to find a good source for twinsets. I’m usually in Calvin Klein slacks, blouses (Macy’s and Nordstroms, Jones New York, too), and pearls. Also loving the Aravon shoes, because they’re low, wide, and comfortable.

    • Accountress :

      Talbots for twinsets! They have this one style I adore, “Charming” (shell and cardi sold separately), and it’s just fabulous. They bring out new colors every season, and because you can order from other stores to deliver to your place, you can wait until they’re on sale to get a set. It’s very classic.

      • I’ve never done very well with twinsets, and have basically stopped wearing them. My plus-size standbys are:
        *Sejour pants from Nordstrom. They are really great, crisp workwear trousers.
        *Dresses from Calvin Klein or Talbots. I usually have to tailor the Talbots dresses, but then I wear the heck out of them.
        *silky sleeveless tops, often with a print, to wear under suits. Macys usually has a ton of these.
        *Suiting from Talbots, Nordstrom, or occasionally, AK Anne Klein from Macys.

        Seriously, I basically just wear Talbots and Nordstrom. It’s kind of ridiculous.

      • AnotherLadyLawyer :

        THIS! I own a thousand (or probably 15) Talbots Charming Cardigans. Second the recommendation to wait until they go on sale. They have regular long sleeve versions and then 3/4 sleeve versions and also come in women’s sizes, women’s petite sizes, and regular sizes.

    • Talbots and Land’s End for twin sets! I get all of mine at one of those 2 places. And between the two, you pretty much can find any color you want.

  27. Recommendations for less dressy basic black pants?

    I’m 5’7, medium curvy, 39-33-41, usually a size 10 all around. Express’s Editor pant fits oddly at the waist, their Columnist pant is baggy at the knees. I’m looking for something in the $50-150 range, that I can wear to law school and to my fairly casual workplace. I love Ann Taylor’s suit separates, but I’m looking for something more casual and more fitted.

    Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

    • Try the gap; they have many different styles.

    • Second for Gap pants. They had a new line of black pants that came out last spring, and they’re all different and all look good. I wear my “modern boot” ones all the time. (I should probably buy another pair, I wear them so much.)

  28. As a woman with a small waist, but 42′ hips, my go to store is Ann Taylor. Their curvy pants and pencil skirts always fit- no trying on 400 things, no gnashing of teeth.
    For customer service, shoes and bras- always Nordstrom- but when looking for suits, they are just a bit too trendy for me. I can’t spend $600 on something so memorable I can’t have it in a 2 to 3 week rotation.

    • Research, Not Law :

      Whoa, I think we’re the same person. I ditto literally every word.

      I feel like Loft changed it’s curvy fit recently. Am I crazy? Their curvy jeans were my go-to for a few years, but last time I went to renew, they didn’t fit well at all and the denim seemed poor quality. I was bummed. AT professional wear still fits me to a tee, thankfully.

      • SkirtEnvy :

        I notice the quality degradation with Loft curvy, too! I just bought jeans (walked in, didn’t try on), only to find them gaping in the waste and weird in the hip.
        Any other places you love and don’t have to try on 500 things?
        P.S- I’m not in law either!

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