Time vs. Money: How to Find Jobs with Low Hours and High Pay
Readers just had a fabulous threadjack with lots of thoughts on money and time — specifically, comparing everyone's jobs in terms of hours and pay. It was a really rich discussion — and it's a great topic: What are the best tips for how to find jobs with low hours and high pay? These are definitely the unicorn jobs that have you laughing all the way to the bank, but if you've worked very long hours, a tradeoff may sound perfect.
We've talked about salary vs. title (which is more important), as well as how to negotiate salary, but we haven't really talked about this tradeoff between time and money since our last discussion of when a lower salary was worth it.
As the original poster noted,
I make $175k salary, ~$30k bonus and work ~70-75 hours a week in a consulting role. As I alluded to in the original post, I feel like this isn’t a tenable trade off right now and would either want higher pay or lower hours… but don’t have a good sense for what reality is among other professional jobs!
Answers were — as you'd expect — all over the board, with one prosecutor in a suburb of a large NE city reporting she made $52K for 45-50 hours a week. On the flip side, one T&E lawyer in New York City noted she made $325K base for “about 40 hours of work a week.” Some people noted benefits (such as vacation days); others did not.
{related: tips for negotiating a salary and other benefits}
Someone else noted (for the lawyers at least!) —
There are good salary reports out there — Barker Gilmore, Robert Half, Special Counsel, Lawyer Whisperer (blog posts, not a report) if you want benchmarks if you are negotiating.
Yet another person noted
But there are a few people that have pursued the “passion” type jobs and work long hours for peanuts, as well as people who ended up taking the “in house” pay cut but not actually getting a lifestyle change like they wanted (whoops).
The entire thread is really fascinating, but let's delve a bit further:
- For those of you working MANY hours a week, is the money a big “reason” for you doing so, or do you love your job?
- For those of you who have perhaps traded in an intense job for a job with fewer hours but good pay, how has the tradeoff gone for you?
- How many of you chose careers specifically because you were hoping for high pay but low hours?
- If you always knew you were in a job with untenably high hours, how did you know it was time to leave? (For example, by the time you hit a debt/savings goal, by a certain birthday, by the time you'd acquired specific skills?)
Do tell…
Stock photo via Stencil.
Some must-read business books for women — update coming soon!
I work a lot. Basically if I am not sleeping or attending to family needs, I am working. My total compensation is around $350k/year, and I have been in my role for 8 years. I am unable to create or nurture any hobbies or personal relationships. I am 40 and single.
I do this because my mother’s Alzheimer’s care is $9000/month in a private pay facility. She has no money. She is 77 years old and plans to live to “at least 85.” I am able to stay somewhat positive, because I know that I am still incredibly privileged to be able to care for myself and her.
Please don’t talk to me about putting my mother in a home that takes Medicaid. I tried that for two weeks. Other residents were defecating on her bed, stealing her things, and a male resident tried to climb into her bed with her. She was terrified, and this was at a highly rated facility that happened to take Medicaid.
Yeah, when mom goes, I am downshifting to any job at 40 hours per week with healthcare. I hope I get there one day.
you are beyond an amazing daughter.
I second what this person said. You are a good human, and I truly admire you for your drive and strength.
+1 I just want to say how amazing I think you are
We went through this with my father in law. His expenses were about $12K a month (there were a lot of medical and dental bills in addition to the facility). It was rough but we are still so glad we did it. He passed away two years ago and we actually made a pack to wait a year to make any job changes. We both felt it was important to take a breathe and figure out what we wanted. We opted to stay in our very stressful, all consuming positions to be able to retire early. We also know that we will be buying long term care insurance.
Feel good about your decision. You are amazing.
I’ve been thinking about this in relation to this board. I’m willing to work long hours for something I care about – a social cause, a startup I’m financially / emotionally invested in, etc. But I see so many people talking about working insane biglaw hours, including being willing to cancel vacations at a moments notice if the client wants something. For other jobs, I’m willing to work decent hours and of course I’m invested in my career and willing to go the extra mile when needed – but not to let them take over my life. I live in an east coast city where I know a lot of people who work in banking, accounting, etc and also work insane hours.
Am I completely out of touch with wanting to live in one of these cities, but not work such crazy hours? Am I being unrealistic? Maybe not in law, but in other fields a portion of it feels self-fulfilling – especially when you’re senior enough people could put some boundaries around nights and weekends, but don’t. I get that a lot of these industries also pay a lot of money, but especially when you’re 4-5 years out of school (vs straight out of school) is it crazy to want boundaries, even if you still do get paid a lot? You’re not really getting paid by the hour, so it doesn’t feel long hours should automatically be the entry fee
Depends on what industry you’re in, but for most of the highly paid positions I’m aware of in NY, yes, that’s unrealistic.
As a CPA at a Big 4 accounting firm, I work long hours (not quite Big Law all year round, but several months a year like that), and am not particularly well compensated for it. I’m 5 years out of school with a masters, and still making 5-figures. But if I stick it out and make partner, there’s a big payoff at the end–starting salary for partners is around $300K, average total comp of around $900K.
Most of the clients I work with also work really long hours a lot of the time, so switching to industry isn’t that appealing to me, plus it often stunts income growth over the long-term and you work on the same tasks every month instead of having new challenges.
Senior people are senior and paid more because they have stepped up in responsibility, such as running a line of business or managing complex projects for their clients. You don’t step up and then get to coast. You only get to coast after you retire.
The senior people are taking conference calls on the weekend. They might have some control is the call is at 7 am or 4 pm, but you better believe they are working. And on the east coast (especially NYC) that responsiveness is expected.
Middle management in a non-client facing role can generally avoid the crazy hours with limited advancement, but not when you need to work with the business.
This is where Sheryl Sandberg got it right, the higher you go, the more balance you have. You get the job with the big dollars and decent hours by advancing up – you leave the grunt work behind in favor of strategy.
agree – I keep reminding myself of this. The grunt years are finite (hopefully).
I think government lawyer is an amazing combo of reasonable hours, reasonable pay, and work satisfaction.
This is me. Don’t underestimate state level. Often in slightly smaller cities (vs NYC, LA, SF, DC) but much better commute times which helps keep work hours reasonable.
As a counterpoint, I’m a government lawyer (state) and HATE my job and am desperate to get out. I have the reasonable hours portion, which is good, but my work is boring and the pay is atrocious. I’m willing to work more hours in exchange for higher pay at this point in my career.
I am a state government lawyer. My salary is considerably less than a starting BigLaw associate. It is still a multiple of average household income, however. I have very good benefits, but some that look good on paper don’t really exist. For example, I cannot take the leave I have, literally lose 80% of it each year. I have a pension, yes, but combined with Social Security if I work until 70, it will provide about 2/3 of my current salary, AND I am required to contribute 8% of my salary. My hours do not approach BigLaw, either now or in my days there prior to government, averaging more like 48-50 hours. I love my work and it challenges me every day. I feel like, all told, this is a good balance for me, but it is not a unicorn, just a decent set up wit trade-offs.
Getting 2/3 of your salary after retirement sounds amazing!
Including social security (if it is still around), working to age 70, and contributing 8% to pension in addition to FICA contributions? Not so amazing.
Defined benefit instead of defined contribution plan is amazing. I don’t want to have to push out my retirement date like my dad did after the Great Recession.
I contribute a LOT LOT more than 8% (in addition to FICA contributions) and don’t hope to have close to 2/3 of my salary at retirement…so yeah, sounds amazing to me
+1. I’m a state government attorney. With 10 years experience, I make $127,000 with fantastic health benefits and a pension in a LCOL city. My work is interesting and rewarding. My salary is higher than average because I’m currently in a high-level role, so my hours aren’t always the best, but they aren’t terrible either.
I work a reduced schedule as a litigator in BigLaw. It took negotiating and a lateral move, but I work (not bill, but work) about 40 hrs a week. Some weeks I hardly work at all, but then I’m in trial for a few weeks and don’t sleep. It’s not a balance. It’s a give and take. I leave about $50k on the table each year doing this, but I’m happier.
This is my unicorn job and they will have to force me to leave it.
I went from big law employment defense to EPL insurance claims manager. In insurance, I make about half as much of what I did in Big Law, which can be tough in the bay area. I don’t miss the stress and pressures of big law (or working for a-holes). My job is relatively stress free and that is amazing. It took at least a year or so to get used to not living a stress-filled life. I don’t think I could ever go back to to The high pay high stress world. I’m so much healthier and happier now! I think I would move to a less expensive place rather than have to work with demanding partners again!
Tech job, Masters in a quantitative field. 9y since undergrad/7y work-ex
I work ~40h a week and make ~110K (EUR) in what is considered a LCOL EU city. I made similar money in a VHCOL US city ~4y ago (was26). I’ve rarely worked >40h a week (tbh, i’m probably working a lot more now because of pandemic induced fears around job security)
I am married and have a kindergartener who is now homeschooled (because pandemic) and havent really felt like ‘ve ever “sacrificed” personal life for career progression but sometimes wonder if ‘ve taken it too easy career-wise and if i should try to lean in a bit
This path sounds great. Can you give insight about your field/role?
Self-employed T&E lawyer. Work part-time (25-30 hours/week) and making a living wage (120k annually). I’m not buying any second homes or taking extravagant vacations, but I can meet my young children’s needs by being home more and supplementing spouse’s income. I know not everyone has it this way, and I am so thankful for it!
Fed govt attorney of ten plus years in Chicago. 40-60 hours/week. 135k. No bonus. A lot of sexism in assignments, evaluations, advancement, ultimately has retarded my pay, hurt my long term benefits. Minimal cost of living increases.
Job has been very sweat-shoppy bc they want to replace expensive older women attorneys with cheaper new hires. Perception that this would be a great job does not match up with reality of labor law violations (e.g, we currently can only take lunch before 10 AM or after 3 PM). They cut support staff by 50%, so women do our own admin and admin for others in our chain of command. The men have admin support staff, however.
I have no kids. Only the clout hires with kids consider this to be a good mommy job. Execs and managers counsel women to quit when they have babies and tell them they can return to their former jobs after several years when baby is older. Dearth of women in their 30s and 40s actively working.
Small pension (1% of high average 3 multiplied by years of service, from age 62); government 401(k) with 5% match; FSA; health insurance; dental; vision. You can take 1 week vacation during the regular year but strong management preference that you vacation during the end of the year (Thanksgiving through new year’s).
Government lawyer turned private firm associate. This year I took a big leap to move into a more interesting practice area for better pay but much more intense hours than government. I work 55 hours or so to bill 40 per week, making $140 in a VHCOL place. I’m still adjusting but I think balance is a really personal thing, everyone’s a bit different. Spent a lot of time trying to get this right & I don’t quite have the Goldilocks formula yet. History: Worked 2 years at a law firm with a “sweatshop” attitude expecting me to work constantly for $75k just til I could trade up to a better deal: $65k to work 40 hour weeks in government. After several promotions and 8 years service I ended up making $90 in a LCOL city for an easy 35-ish hours with tons of flexibility and vacation leave. However, I was underutilized and BORED out of my mind. I’m glad I made the leap.
I am fulltime but realistically work about 30-40 hours a week. Pre-COVID, I worked the same hours but travelled a decent amount so there was travel time. I am in-house counsel at a trade association in DC and make $300k. I graduated law school in 2010 and worked in big law in NYC until 2 years ago when I made the switch where I am now. I feel incredibly grateful for my situation. DC has a lot of trade association jobs for big law attorneys in specialized or niche practice areas. Life can be better!
Digging up an older thread… surprised that no one was an engineer on that other thread. I have to say that I choose computer science specifically for the money and what I thought to be less network intensive job (high school and early college me was quite… antisocial).
I’m making 125k base a year in Silicon Valley at a very chill faang. With bonus and stocks, I get close to 170k a year.