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Updated: Apr 15, 2021 207 Comments · by

Coffee Break: Lilly Pulitzer Stemless Tumbler

Coffee Break

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Are any of us in need of a new insulated tumbler at the moment? No — probably not. But whether you're a fan of Lilly Pulitzer, preppy clothes, or just generally pretty functional (and nonbreakable) things, these tumblers are adorable — and on sale. Saks has them in their Friends & Family sale, on through April 5, with free shipping — lots of items are marked down 25%, including these cute stemless tumblers. They were $26, and are now marked to $19.50 — there's a clear acrylic lid to prevent spills, and the “double walled stainless steel contruction keeps 12 ounces of your favoritee beverage chilled for longer.” Nice. (Ooh, they actually have taller tumblers and a few Lilly wine glasses as well.) Pictured.

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Sales of note for 10.10.24

  • Nordstrom – Extra 25% off clearance (through 10/14); there's a lot from reader favorites like Boss, FARM Rio, Marc Fisher LTD, AGL, and more. Plus: free 2-day shipping, and cardmembers earn 6x points per dollar (3X the points on beauty).
  • Ann Taylor – Extra 50% off sale (ends 10/12)
  • Banana Republic Factory – Up to 50% off everything plus extra 25% off your $125+ purchase
  • Boden – 10% off new styles with code; free shipping over $75
  • Eloquii – Extra 50% off a lot of sale items, with code
  • J.Crew – 40% off sitewide
  • J.Crew Factory – 50% off entire site, plus extra 25% off orders $150+
  • Lo & Sons – Fall Sale, up to 35% off
  • M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
  • Neiman Marcus – Sale on sale, up to 85% off
  • Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
  • Talbots – 50% off 2+ markdowns
  • Target – Circle week, deals on 1000s of items
  • White House Black Market – Buy one, get one – 50% off full price styles

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. anon

    Aggregate cell phone data shows how well each state or county is social distancing (link to follow). Thought it might be a counterpoint to the bias that we are more likely to see those who don’t follow the rules.
    OTOH, my county gets an F, which doesn’t really surprise me. And it’s terrifying to know we’ve all opted in to this huge surveillance system, likely without really thinking about it.

    • Veronica Mars

      It’s important to note this is not complete data, if it’s just relying on cell phone usage. It’s perfectly acceptable to drive to the store a couple miles from your home, or to drive to any other the other approved things during this time (visit an essential service, care for a loved one, drive to a hiking trail, etc). I think this is a lot of fear mongering from imperfect data.

          • Anonymous

            It’s not a prejudice if it’s true, and the data says y’all kept on getting out and about while the rest of the country stopped. Idk why we have to pretend the south isn’t a massive problem to soothe y’all’s feelins.

        • Mrs. Jones

          I’ve lived in the south my whole life and am not willfully ignorant about the virus risk. I haven’t driven anywhere except work (once) and the grocery (twice) in two weeks. You should check your prejudice.

          • Anonymous

            the data shows that not all others who live in the south are doing the same as what you are

          • LaurenB

            Remind me again where the states are that have not issued stay-at-home orders? Remind me again where people are most likely to believe conspiracy theories about politicians? Remind me again what part of the country is it where they have to dangle scholarships to northerners to get their average SAT scores up?

        • Anonymous

          I think it’s pretty clear that this is a less than perfect metric for social distancing.

        • Anon

          It’s pretty clear that you are willfully ignorant. In more urban areas, this metric makes sense; it is laughable in the rural South, where people often have to drive 10 miles each way to get to the grocery store.

          Sorry you don’t understand basic social science.

          • M

            Umm what? That would only make sense it was comparing northeast (densely populated) vs southeast (less dense). It isn’t. I live in the mountain west, which is much less densely populated than the southeast (even East Tennessee where I used to live) and yet the map shows that other geographic areas (even rural ones) are doing better overall than the South. That makes sense because people who live in really rural communities are used to stockpiling and not going to the grocery store every week, so for the ones who are taking the virus seriously, the cell data absolutely shows fewer trips.

            And if you read the explanation, they are comparing the county against itself. So Alabama is being measured against itself the week before to see if there is an increase or decrease in visits to nonessential businesses, not against NYC. Is the metric perfect? No, but it gives helpful information on which parts of the country are making the biggest strides in getting people to stay home, which at this point is our best defense against this virus.

      • anon

        It looks like this is just tracking how many miles people drive based on cellular data. Not surprisingly, states that have a larger portion of their population in rural areas are getting lower scores. They may just have to drive further to stores? Or healthcare workers may have to drive further to the hospitals they work at?

        • anon

          The metric is % change, so rural areas would have a different baseline level.

        • Anonymous

          Actually that isn’t true. The South is atrocious but Montana, the Dakota’s, rural PA, rural WA- all doing pretty well.

          • Vicky Austin

            Idk, I live in one of the areas you mentioned and we’re getting pretty solid D-minuses.

          • Anon

            Those areas are actually highly urbanised, in the strict definition of percent of population who lives in cities.

    • Anonymous

      My county in the SEUS gets a B- which I think is really great for us. And we are a large urbanish county where most people have cars, so that is really good for us.

      • Anonymous

        This — snitching is just bad. I have such a bad reaction to it. And people are not omnicient or benevolent and this really puts us going down the wrong road (I’m looking at you, NextDoor).

      • anon

        on the one hand, I get that concern. But on the other hand, having political opinions is not the same as willfully endangering others on a whim or for financial gain. So limiting one thing is not equal to limiting the other thing, necessarily.

        • Anon

          You have to have lived in a communist country to understand the snitching. You don’t just get snitched for “having differing political opinions.” You get snitched for literally anything that may or may not jeopardize the system. There’s a very recent case in China where they shut down ao3 (a fanfiction site) precisely because a fan had snitched to the authority that there is inappropriate fetishized contents regarding their idol movie star. And in the name of purity culture, the government added it to the purge list where all other major foreign platforms are also blocked. If we say this is okay now it’s only a matter of time until people snitch on one another for any petty reason and I for one don’t want to see that happen.

          • Anon

            You relive white people @snitch” on black people all the time. You should probably move.

    • Not that Anne, the other Anne

      The challenge I have with these “grades” is that they don’t seem to take into account the vast differences in infrastructure availability. I can see that the more rural, spread-out areas are largely getting worse scores, but that doesn’t mean that the people there aren’t trying to pay attention to guidance. They literally cannot avoid driving longer distances to do … anything.

      • Anon

        Someone above said it’s based on the percent reduction compared to how it was before. So presumably if they’re very rural and need to drive 20 miles to the grocery store, that was true before. If they were going to the store less frequently you would see the same percentage drop as in other areas.

        • Anonymous

          I think that’s right. Once school and kids’ activities were cancelled, my going-places tanked. No work, no church, no scouts, nothing except grocery store and allergy shots (which I hope continue as the pollen is through the roof). I am grounded. SEUS, so a big driving place otherwise.

      • annienomous

        I live in a rural county that got an F while the state (IL) as a whole got a B-. I am not surprised at all to see the local rednecks dragging down the much better performance from Chicago.

        I have to take my son to his grandparents in the morning before returning to WFH and I see businesses open that shouldn’t be. Parking lots packed that should be empty. My county deserves our F, and I hate it.

        • Anonymous

          Not sure if this is progress that rednecks aren’t limited to the south.

          • annienomous

            Trust me, the rednecks consider this area the south (even though we’re barely in the bottom half of the state). At least based on the number of confederate flags I STILL see.

          • Anon

            FWIW I saw plenty of confederate flags the summer I spent in rural upstate NY a few years ago. Rednecks are definitely not limited areas south of the Mason Dixon.

  2. Single Mother by Choice

    This is tough for me to write about. I don’t talk about it with anyone except for my therapist about once a year when I have a 5-minute conversation and then never bring it up again, but I’ve been thinking about it a lot recently. I’m hoping someone on this board can empathize, or has been through the same thing. But, please be gentle.

    I’m 27 and I’m somewhere on the ase*ual (mod) spectrum. I’ve never dated anyone (I can count the number of dates I’ve gone on on my hands, and I hated every second of the first date-Tinder-app experience), never kissed anyone, never slept with someone. I feel attraction to people, but only after really getting to know them and it’s never been reciprocated. The whole idea of dating someone freaks me out, honestly.

    All of that being said: I’m realizing that I’m not sure I will ever be married. I do want a partner but not sure how that’s going to happen if I don’t date strangers, attraction isn’t reciprocated by those I do fall for, and intimacy freaks me out, so I’ve come to realize it may not. That feels OK. Not great, but OK.

    However, I really do want at least one child. I’ve always wanted a child. I’ve also always wanted to adopt- I have a chronic health condition that’s well managed, but I don’t want to carry a child because of it, and I wouldn’t really want to do artificial insemination.

    So….single mother by choice through adoption seems to be the best option.

    Has anyone had the experience of being a single mother by choice?
    What about SMBC and adopting?
    What considerations went into your decision to do this?
    Are there any books, blogs, etc you would recommend?
    What would you do to prepare now, if I was thinking about it in 7-10 years?

    Thanks in advance- this was a post I’ve been considering for a long time. I posted it at the very end of the AM thread, and may post again tomorrow depending on if this gets responses- sorry for multiple posts. The afternoon posts can be kind of dead.

    • Anonymous

      I think the first step is to bring this up with your therapist and say that you need to work through this in more detail. Having a relationship and having kids are both Big Important Life Things worthy of time. I’m considering becoming a single mom through artificial insemination and can’t really speak to adoption but I think this is more common than you realize.

      • Single Mother by Choice

        Yes, I have a good support network- my parents are healthy and live across the state and I could move there; I know they’d be supportive.

        My current job is pretty flexible, although I’m not sure I’d be able to stay there long term and financially make it work. But I have time to figure that out- I really can’t see this happening before I’m 37, probably closer to 40.

        • Single Mother by Choice

          Whoops, threaded wrong.

          To respond to your comment- yeah, I’ll bring it up maybe as soon as tonight. I sort of told my mom today for the first time….not quite as clearly, but she didn’t seem too surprised.

    • Anonymous

      I have some friends who are SMBCs, but they did that in their 40s. One has two bio children and one adopted (open adoption of an infant). I also know three people who fostered to adopt and adopted that way (all of them are married). If you become a SMBC, is your job flexible? Like really, really, really flexible? And do you have family nearby or a support network? Both are crucial. My SMBC bio mom had a sibling and parent move to be closer to her and she needs their help. She is also very well off (BigLaw for 10+ years prior to the kids, now in-house) and has a flexible job. Other SMBC adopter has local family but also lives near many empty nesters who have pitched in — it helps that she is an extrovert with a big network who is not afraid to ask for help.

    • Anon for This....

      Your post struck a chord with me – not because I am (or want to be) a SMBC, but because my dating experiences and concerns at your age sounded very similar. You mention that you’re somewhere on the ase*ual (mod) spectrum, but a lot of the rest of your conversation around dating sounds like it could be attributed to inexperience, anxiety, and bad luck.

      I hadn’t even been out on a date until I was 28 years old – when I finally decided to dive into online dating head first. With the help of a great therapist and OkCupid….I dated a lot. I didn’t love it, but I met nice people. First kiss happened at 29, first relationship and sexual experience at 31. I’m almost 37 now – married and pregnant with our first kiddo.

      I say this not to brag – but to encourage you to keep at it if you want a partner. You aren’t alone – dating is hard! Relationships and sex can be hard – particularly if you didn’t get an early start. There’s a lot of anxiety and shame. The right therapist can help a lot.

      As for being a SMBC, adoption is one way to go. You may also want to consider freezing your eggs – at your age, you’re more likely than not to be pretty successful. You could freeze some as eggs, and make embryos with frozen sperm for the rest. If you decide to use them someday, you could always consider using a gestational surrogate.

      • Anon

        I want to second that – I never really “dated” except a couple of isolated experiences I hated, felt attractions which were not reciprocated, met a guy when I was 25 but saw him rarely and only when I got to know him better (age 27ish?) felt the attraction and we became lovers. Had only kissed one guy once before. Married for 17 years now with a teenaged kid. You are not necessarily ase*ual based on your experiences. You may need more time to get attached and that is OK. I would talk it through with a therapist either way. (No comment on the rest of your post and there is absolutely nothing wrong with being ase*ual – just wanted to say to not be quick to self-label… )

        • Anonymous

          I’m probably demi and would probably not even know that if I hadn’t happened to meet my partner. I had so little interest until we connected. I was previously happy alone, and I had to change all my plans to accommodate wanting to be with someone! I still feel a little like I’m living life on an alternate path.

          I would guess OP has more self knowledge than this, but I also wondered a little about closing doors unnecessarily (vs. say, people who choose to date on the ace spectrum). But I know some people conclude that “men are too headache” as the meme goes.

          One of the professors I considered a hero when I was in college is a single mom by choice (I guess she stood out to me as successful and respected in a very male dominated and old fashioned field).

      • Anon

        I agree with this. I think you need to try dating before writing yourself off. I have friends who only dated one or two guys before getting married, so it’s not like you need to sleep around to know for sure, but don’t give up because of anxiety when you might actually need and want a partner.

        • Single Mother by Choice

          I’ve tried dating using apps and it doesn’t work. I know that’s not the only way, but it’s a big way and….it really, really doesn’t work for me.

        • Anonymous

          Yeah, I’m the demi poster above, and dating would not have worked for me. I was happy single, and I would have been unhappy dating, so it wouldn’t really have made sense as a choice to make either. I assume I’m demi partly because I only finally fell for someone after knowing them well in a non-dating context.

          • Single Mother by Choice

            Demi is the most accurate term for me. I’ve also only fallen for people I know.

    • Anon

      I am 35, and I’m considering becoming a SMC. I always wanted the husband and kids and white picket fence life, but I’ve not had luck finding a potentially life partner. At the end of the day, if it comes down to a choice, I want kids more than a husband. And even having said that and having known that for the last few years, it’s an incredibly hard decision to make because I still want the husband too.

      At this point in your life, I wouldn’t close the door to a marriage. However, I do things to make a SMC lifestyle more easy. For me, that was working my ass off in biglaw for a number of years to save a significant nestegg and then moving to a more flexible work life balance job. I would really consider how to set yourself up both financially and in terms of a support network.

      In terms of resources, I’ve found the singlemothersbychoice . Com website and forum to be the most helpful. They also have a lot of local groups, and I’ve attended things in my local area that are really helpful. I haven’t found many recent books. An Excellent Choice by Emma Brockes is an interesting book about her journey, but not what I would call a resource.

    • Anon Lawyer

      Single mother choice to a baby here. My story sounds pretty similar to yours. And this is without a doubt the right choice for me and is absolutely the best decision I’ve ever made. I would say that the forums mentioned above are a good resource – there are a number of women who went the adoption route and can give advice on them. In general, both conceiving and adoption tend to take longer than people think they will – sometimes they’re super fast but sometimes you’re looking at years and lots of heartbreak along the way. So I would try to start as soon as you feel ready and be in the mindset that you’re in it for the long haul.

      The more you can get your finances in order the better! And likewise the more of a village you can muster around yourself, the better.

    • MargotMcKinley

      I’m slightly younger than you and also pondering SMBC. It’s a lot to consider! I just finished reading Eggs Unscrambled by Agnes Fischer. It was really insightful about the egg freezing process and beyond.

    • Nemo

      When I was 37, I made a decision to adopt as a single person. I felt like, at that point in life, I did not want my desire to be a mother skew my approach to possible relationships, nor did I want a potential partner to have the ability to affect my intent to become a parent. I adopted internationally (tougher now) in under a year. I ended up marrying a few years later, and we adopted again. I did not find being a single parent harder than being one of two parents. It’s like working in the office vs. working from home. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. What I know for sure is that I love my kids and I feel privileged that I was able to become a parent. The first few months were very hard, going from a challenging career and busy social life to maternity leave with a toddler and no daily adult company. I was much happier once I returned to work, better balance. You’ve thought about this. If motherhood is what you want, do it! If you have reservations, don’t do it because there is no turning back. It is likely to be the hardest thing you ever do, and possibly also the most challenging.

  3. Anonymous

    I work in labor and employment at a 70 lawyer firm and have been 16-hrs-a-day busy the last 3 weeks. Starting to get a breather, yesterday was only 13 hours and today so far I’m on track for 12. I’m just resurfacing and hearing about layoffs and pay cuts for associates at other firms. I haven’t heard anything from my firm. Other than saving a little bit more (basically, my student loan payments), is there anything I can or should do to prepare? I’m on track to make partner at the end of the year and I originally wanted to see how it went this year, but now I’m apprehensive I’ll be forced to do it as they may not have the $ for my associate salary.

    • anon

      I am busy, but I always assume that I could lose my job. Here is what I’m doing:
      – I am saving loan payments instead of paying them. Because of the pandemic stimulus package, interest on direct federal loans is 0% and you don’t have to make payments for the next 6 months. No negative marks on your credit and the balance doesn’t grow. I only have a direct federal loan left.
      – I am passively viewing job listings. I may submit some applications to get the ball rolling just in case.
      – I am staying in touch with my network, including people at my last (bigger) firm.
      – I was on track to make equity partner this year, and now I am accepting that it’s not happening.

    • Anonymous

      One of the biggest firms in my area has instituted a 20% across the board paycut. I am terrified of the same. We will survive obviously and it’s better than being let go, but that’s a substantial hit – all of our savings plus some. I’m currently eating my feelings. This is no longer just about being at home.

    • Anonymous

      I would not worry if you do employer side work. In each downturn the wrongful discharge claims go up because don’t just move to another job, the way they do in an up market. That said, heading into a recession I do a review of my expense creep and trim down my spend so I have more of a cushion.

    • AntsGoMarching

      If you’re working those hours, you don’t need to worry. Plus as a Union-side L&E lawyer, I can tell you our field is very busy with Coronavirus-related work right now.

  4. Anonymous

    So can we talk about governor Cuomo? I’m surprised at how impressed I’ve been with him. But more surprised with all the love I’m seeing him get online.

    With the caveat that I’m definitely a democrat I’m just shocked that people in the online world love a democrat and are suggesting he should be president? Am I just reading Russian trolls and getting confused? Or do I owe a big apology to the poster here whom I dismissed when she suggested Cuomo for a presidential candidate?

    • Anonymous

      What are you going on about? Lots of people online like Democrat’s and lots of people love a strong leader in a crisis.

      • ohMinnow

        Rudy Giuliani was considered a champion. He really did shine during that crisis.

      • anon

        yeah, not sure what you mean. Lots of democrats get fervent admiration, also outside of crises.

    • Anonymous

      Everyone is adoring of Governor Cuomo right now and I don’t get it. He should have shut down New York weeks before he did, when it was painfully obvious to even casual observers like myself that New York was going to be the next Lombardy.

      • Anon

        +1000
        I don’t know why he is getting so much admiration. He didn’t do what he could do to stop the virus from spreading. All he is doing now is complaining about the lack of ventilators.

      • Anon

        I agree wholeheartedly. I don’t think he’s shown true leadership and think his delayed reaction has exasperated the situation in New York.

      • Anonymous

        +1000. Federal, state and local public health services have let all of us down. We have had since January to prepare for this. We should have had self quarantine guidelines much earlier, f-ing tests, and a chance of actual containment in at least some areas of the country.

    • Anonymous

      I’ll leave my kidding-but-not-really-kidding suggestion for a Cuomo/Baker unification ticket in 2020 right here again :). I don’t think I was the original poster. I am, however, a liberal republican or a conservative democrat depending on the day. I’m Team Biden 2020, but I do love Gov Baker.

      • Anonymous

        Sorry I really meant Facebook. (I’m ducking).

        I sometimes torture myself by reading the comments on posts by politicians who represent me and there is so much hate. I know it’s a horrible practice. Usually, I see a lots of a portmanteau of liberal and slur for a mentally disabled person. Anyway it was weird to see cuomo love in them and I was wondering if real people actually admired him right now.

    • Anon

      I’m on the other side of the country from New York and don’t really know much about the politics there so do not have an opinion in that realm, but I will say that I am loving the Cuomo brothers interviews. They’re bringing me a lot of joy right now.

      • Anon

        Yep – I think the brother dynamic is having a big impact. They are very relatable.

    • anonymous

      Are you looking for blogs with fashion recommendations? If so Cap Hill Style or You Look Fab might work for you.

      Or if you’re looking for a blog with an active comments section, then check out Ask A Manager. The comments on the weekly post are generally on topic for work stuff. On Saturdays there is an open thread for anything non-work related.

  6. Pendant lights for a hallway

    Our pendant light died. It is at the top of dark stairs, so needs to be bright. 9″ ceilings. 100 year old house. What would be pretty and something ship-able? And not frighteningly expensive?

  7. Anon

    Two questions:

    1. Are you wearing masks when outside if you feel well and have been isolating? One of my friend groups has turned vehemently pro-mask in the last three days since all the op-eds started coming out about how we should all be wearing them, and they’re all but mask-shaming everyone else they see in their neighborhoods who isn’t wearing a mask. I understand why wearing a homemade mask can’t hurt. However, I don’t think it’s the end of the world to not wear one if you are only walking outside and staying far away from others… right?

    2. A friend from NYC texted me this week and said she and her husband are going to the Hamptons for the next few weeks to ride this thing out. Isn’t that… a bad idea? She is a smart woman but I think this is so selfish. This isn’t vacation! I get not wanting to be in the epicenter of the outbreak but at this point they should just stay home! I didn’t know what to say.

    • Pure Imagination

      Re no. 2, it’s a terrible idea and very selfish. She’s contributing to the enormous burden vacation destinations are facing – they tend to have small cottage hospitals with few ICU beds, fewer stores (that full-time residents rely on) for supplies, etc. This is exactly why some ski towns are telling people to stop visiting them. They’re already so overburdened.

    • Anonymous

      Re 1, I have no masks. I have masks from mardi gras for eyes-only disguising.

      Re 2, Cap Hill Style has a post that smaller city hospitals can’t help you if you get really sick there; you are safer in the city if you just stay home as you should even in the Hamptons.

      • Anonymous

        But it’s literally harder to isolate in the city.

        I’m a year round Suffolk county resident and I think it’s just as selfish to insist people stay in nyc right now. Is selfishness just refusing to die because you’re from ny?

        I’ve had a life threatening condition treated in the city in a fancy hospital. Most people in Suffolk county get a scary diagnosis and immediately seek medical care in the city. It seems cruel to claim now that people are only entitled to the medical care their own neighborhood. It’s horrible at my local hospital right now but they’re not yet burying the dead in mass graves in potter’s fields like in nyc.

        • Anonymous

          I think that the flip side is that if you’re healthy, it is easier to isolate in less urban areas. But if you bring the virus with you . . . you unleash chaos and terror on a place that will likely do worse than the city you left in terms of high-level emergency care. Like how many ventilators does the Hamptons have? And if they run out, who will ferry you back to the city as you cough up blood? No one gets paid enough for that.

        • anon

          What? This doesn’t make sense. The baseline assumption should be that everyone in NYC may have been exposed. People shouldn’t leave the city because they may spread it. Are you seriously suggesting that NYCers leave the city, potentially contaminate other areas just so that people who don’t live in NYC have access to our hospitals?

          • Anonymous

            There’s a chance they bring it out to us but a bigger chance that they get it if they stay. I can stay in my suburban house and my own yard for weeks on end. That’s not possible in a tiny apartment. I get that people want nyers to do that but it’s not happening. You want nyers to stay and take their chances so you are personally safer and it’s just not a moral high ground.

            People argue that the rural and suburban hospitals are less equipped and likely to be overwhelmed. But the city hospitals already are. So it’s a weird argument about who deserves the limited care out here. That’s hard when medical care was always a shared burden between the city and the suburbs.

            It’s not selfish to flee a disaster. It’s a human survival instinct. We have to stop framing literally not wanting to die like it’s a selfish choice. No one wants this in their town but it’s spreading more rapidly where people live on top of each other.

            My husband and I both commute to nyc and we’re quarantined but we weren’t monsters for coming home from work before the orders in March and potentially exposing people. I’m having trouble understanding how going to a summer house that you own here is different.

            If you talk to 9-11 survivors the story usually includes a part where they were told it was safest to just stay put, but they left so they’re here to tell the story. That’s not to say that this is the same. It’s to understand the psyche of a group of people who are trying to survive once again.

          • Anon

            Well put Anonymous at 5:53. I posted below about my friends who moved to their hamptons place (where they would live full time if they could find jobs there.) They’re trying to protect themselves and their kids, as we all would do.

    • Anon

      1. What is the harm? Get a cloth mask and wear it. Every bit helps.
      2. Yes, it is selfish.

      • Anonymous

        Not sure if everything I read on the interwebs is true but I thought you could mask yourself into more exposure (if done the wrong way) not less. So as a noob, I am not even attempting. Team hand-washing-with-soap.

    • No Longer Anon

      I’m high risk and I’m not wearing a mask. I have 11 N95 masks (which my doctors have said I need to keep) and probably 18 surgical masks (which I’m also rationing out- I wore one when I HAD to run a couple very necessary errands last week and wanted to really consciously not touch my face). If I get sick and need to go to the hospital or something else, I want to keep those masks in reserve.

      Also, generally people don’t know how to wear masks. I’ve been wearing masks on flights, during smoke season, at the hospital, on crowded public transportation, etc. for years and I see people out wearing masks right now and cringe. It doesn’t help to wear the mask tucked below your chin! It doesn’t help to wear the mask and then put a straw under it (although I’ve definitely done that before, knowing it’s defeating the purpose). It doesn’t help to wear the surgical mask upside down! And for the love of God, it doesn’t help to move the mask aside so you can smoke. That makes me want to scream.

    • buffybot

      On 2, yes, agree with everyone else. But the Hamptons in particular are a terrible idea. Ask her if she saw the NYPost article a week ago. It’s obviously sensationalized bc it’s the Post, but my in-laws live out there year round and can attest that it’s a miserable place to be right now.
      I feel like anyone who thinks it’s a good place to weather a pandemic doesn’t spend much time out there? Grocery stores are bare bones in the winter even before hoarding. Healthcare options are negligible and most big box stores are an hour away. Traffic can be terrible and roads are limited. Stay. Home.

    • Anon

      1. I don’t have any but i also barely leave my house
      2. Eh, I have friends who are now in their hamptons place full time and it never occurred to me to be judgey. (Thought i know that’s everyone’s favorite hobby around here.) In the Hamptons their kids have a backyard. In the city they have a balcony. Their logic was that they are less likely to get sick in the hamptons where they can just stay in their house the whole time.

        • Anon

          But less $$$$$ than NYC real estate, which is why my friends own there and rent the city. Like any area, there are expensive and less expensive areas of the Hamptons.

    • Cat

      1. No. I don’t have equipment to make my own, and the professionally made masks will do way more good in the hands of the healthcare system.
      2. OK I know it’s annoying to be cooped up in an apartment but seriously, stay home. Asymptomatic patients are a huge part of how this spreads.

    • Anonymous

      I read the NY order and it does not bar your friend from going to the Hamptons. In contrast, the California order says you can’t leave your county except for essential work.

  8. Donate or Save

    I was unemployed for a chunk of last year (by choice for most of it) so will be getting most of the $1200 payment. But this year, god willing, I will make well over the threshold. Will I have to pay it back, next year, if I do?

    • Anon

      My understanding from actually reading the bill (I am a tax attorney but not a fully income tax (more estate and gift tax but a sprinkling of income tax) attorney), is that it is a credit on your 2020 tax return and the limits on income will be based on your 2020 AGI. For now, they are using your 2018 or 2019 AGI as a stand-in and advancing the credit. To be safe, I would SAVE the rebate to the extent you can and then check the guidance as it is published much later than now (like in early 2021). There will surely be some consensus among CPAs and income tax attorneys about how it is handled, if not true IRS Regs. So, don’t take this as gospel but I would expect that you will not get to keep the $1200 if your income in 2020 is over $99k (and it’s phased out over $75k).

  9. Betting Q

    When do you think any of us will wear anything dry-clean-only again?

    I have my wedding dress in my daughter’s closet. I am going stir crazy. I am half thinking of wearing it because I’m tired of alternating b/w sweats and leggings. The sweats are awesome, BTW. I am hating wrestling with leggings after wearing sweats that are possibly a size large but b/c they have an old school elastic waist won’t fall off .

    [Wedding dress is short / not fluffy and has sewn-in cups, so can wear bra-less. It is comfy. I don’t have the shoes, so can wear with blue crocs. OMG maybe this would be Miss Havisham level bad.]

    • anne-on

      I’m pretty sure you can google and find the author Curtis Sittenfeld wearing her wedding dress to breakfast with her small kids because they asked her. Why the heck not, take some enjoyment where you can find it!

      • Vicky Austin

        I saw that! I’d be wearing mine if it weren’t in my parents’ house in a different state – I thought it seemed fun!

    • Anon

      tangentially related – my friend’s daughters (ages 3 & 7) have frequently asked to try on her wedding dress and she finally let them. the kids were beyond thrilled and the pics are adorable

      • Anonymous

        my sons (7 and 10) would love to see me in mine. I would not love to see how far the back is from closing… so I have not obliged them!

  10. No Longer Anon

    I don’t remember what I was looking for yesterday but I ended up on the House Beautiful site and, despite that I think much of their aesthetic is prissy and overdone, I liked looking at their ideas for redecorating during the crisis (really simple stuff- like moving around art to make a room feel fresh that you’re in all the time), their “grandmillenial” columns (I am HERE for jigsaw puzzle recommendations- going to pick up another Gallison puzzle after finishing the one I have on reserve after my current puzzle!), and just the general lightness of the whole thing.

    Any other sites that you’ve liked recently that are a break from the groundhog day reality?

    • Pure Imagination

      I like theglampad.com for house tours. They’ve featured some of the “grandmillenial” styles lately. A lot of it is too much for my taste, but I love the historic homes.

    • Anony

      My friend called me the ‘Rain Man’ of puzzles today because I did the black & white Pomegranate Puzzles: Edward Gorey Dracula puzzle LOL it’s only 500 pieces so it didn’t seem that fantastic. I got a Ravensburger 2000-piece Shades of Summer today that I will joyfully start on soon and have a 3000-piece Ravensburger Tigers at the Waterhole on the way – thank god for Mercari when puzzles are OOS everywhere! I also like Mega and Buffalo brand puzzles. Definitely going to check out the Galison puzzles you mention OP; I’m unfamiliar with that brand but they look beautiful! If anyone has any recs on 1500-3000 piece puzzle brands, please post!

      • No Longer Anon

        I’ve done the Ideal Bookshelf Gallison puzzle (loved it!) and the Paris by Michael Storings puzzle (did not realize how much f-ing yellow was in that puzzle, didn’t enjoy it as much. Right now I’m working on one I got in Disney World right now that’s shaped like Mickey’s head. It’s definitely challenging, and so much of it is blue but it’s been a good way to focus on that and not on everything else. Next up I’m going to work on Eurographic’s The Greatest Bookstore in the World puzzle, which I took a chance on buying at Value Village. Hopefully all the pieces are there.

  11. Anonymous

    a question on hand sanitizer. We have 1.5 bottles that have been in the house since one of my kids had the flu in january and i was determined that the rest of the house would not get it. DH and I are WFH. Kids are home. We basically don’t go anywhere other than to the grocery store every 8-10 days.

    We have used maybe 20% of a bottle, if that. We only use it when we’ve left the property (neighborhood bike ride, trip to the grocery store) and even then, we use it then come inside and use soap & water.

    Why are people continuing to buy/need/use it if nobody goes anywhere? Is it just people that are considered essential and working outside the home? Or are people hand sanitizing like crazy while everyone is at home?

    There was a post on my neighborhood facebook group about access to hand sanitizer and it was basically a gold rush. None of them leave the neighborhood, they are all WFH/SAH so I was trying to figure out why they need it…but of course knew better than to actually ask :)

    • anonymous

      I never liked hand sanitizer. It feels like I’m just rubbing the dirt/germs around on my hands and they never actually feel clean. I much prefer a good hand washing. I guess people feel like they are prepared by having sanitizer in the house? Same thing with bleach – it was completely sold out for a couple of weeks at my local store. What are people doing with that much bleach in the house?

      • Anonymous

        I dislike hand sanitizer for the same reason. However, I am using it frequently while grocery-shopping, when hand-washing is not a real possibility.

        Everyone is buying bleach because you can dilute it with water and use it as a disinfectant if store-bought cleaners are not available. It’s awful, but it will work in a pinch.

    • Anon

      Essential workers are using it, we are using it when we go out and if one of us gets sick. If you sneeze a lot (allergies for example) it’s good too because you can use it at your desk instead of getting up 20 times an hour to wash your hands. I touch my face a lot and I know it is a losing battle to stop so I use a lot of hand sanitizer when I do have to go out. Other than that though, I’m with you on not really needing it when everyone is home.

    • Anon

      Same here..myself and husband are WFH from last three weeks. I have a travel sized hand sanitizer in my bag which I used a few times before shelter in place was ordered. We have been to grocery store twice and we used it. I don’t use it even when I go for my evening walks, I come home and go straight to bathroom for washing hands and shower. I saw amazon brand (Solimo) hand sanitizer available for general public yesterday if you buy their sandwich bags along with it. Then my husband and me decided not to get it as we hardly use it.

      • LaurenB

        Physician house here, and I have just a tiny bottle of hand sanitizer. There’s no point in using it at home, where I now am 24/7, when I can simply use soap and water.

  12. Oh, the humanity

    I was going through a drawer and found . . . a belly chain. I remember thinking “I could wear that as a necklace” when I got it, but, um, nope.

    Now that I am house-bound, maybe I will give it a whirl? I am circling 50 and wildly out of shape. The thing is 40″, maybe longer. Little silver heart-shaped links. Can wear under sweatshirt b/c it is cold here.

    Goodwill is closed.

    If I had a soldering thingie I might try to make it into some sort of sculpture or cat-teasing toy. Maybe adding a bell to it?

  13. Anonattorney

    Is anyone else starting to have serious misgivings about the long-term efficacy of social distancing? I mean, is this really the plan? Shut everything down for two more months? It’s just not realistic, it’s terrible for mental health, terrible for the economy, and it’s going to wear everyone down. There have to be other options. Right?

    I’m all for flattening the curve and making sure that hospitals have enough resources to help sick people, and protecting vulnerable populations. But *this* is not going to work. I just hope that some smart people somewhere in the government are working on a plan.

    • Anon

      Is it really that terrible? I’m kind of getting sick of hearing people complain about it. Maybe I’m just lucky to have a nice house, nice yard, spouse I enjoy, work that I don’t mind doing from home, hobbies I do at home, pets I enjoy at home. Yeah, I’d like to go see my parents or friends or go out to dinner but it’s really not torture to stay home for a month.

      • Pure Imagination

        That’s where I’m at too. I haven’t seen too many complaints on this board about being fired, being one step away from homelessness, or other serious problems like that, but when it comes to being bored at home, yeah it’s not torture. Having hobbies really helps.

        • Pure Imagination

          To clarify, I’m commenting on the stuck at home part, not the impact on the economy part. The economic impacts are serious and they are hurting low-income people the most.

          • Anon

            Maybe we need to rethink how the economy works to begin with? People are working less but also consuming less. Essential work is continuing. Why do we have an economy that can be brought to its knees when we pare down to essentials? Why is work that is otherwise non-essential crucial to keeping the economy afloat?

          • Anonattorney

            To Anon @ 4:50 – how do you classify non-essential? The arts have been devastated by this. Recreation is shut down – my state closed its public parks and furloughed those employees. Travel is decimated. These are only some of the sectors that tons of people rely on for their livelihood.

            On the other hand, consumerism is still surviving, for the time being. People can always buy stuff off amazon, apparently.

            Anyway, I’ll stop beating the drum. I think that addressing the immediate problem (saving lives) is just as important as trying to avoid long-term impacts of shutting everything down. But I just hope that people are brainstorming other options.

          • Anon

            Recreation, travel, and the arts aren’t food, shelter, or medical care. I’m saying that it doesn’t make sense for people to lose their livelihoods if non-essential work is set aside for a time, and I wish our non-essential workers could expect at least as much security as a peasant would expect from their lord, or the citizen of an ancient city from its semi-divine autocrat, or the lady who paints the pottery from her prehistoric tribe long before we bothered inventing money. It’s great that we know how to respond to pandemics now, but it’s our choice how we distribute stuff. We’re not facing a famine or some massive cataclysm that has destroyed the things we need to live.

          • Anon

            Anon at 4:20 – what is the weather like on your planet? Human economies have been based on trading goods and services since before recorded history. They tried what you’re talking about in Russia in 1916. It didn’t go too well. Maybe read up on history before making ridiculous proposals.

          • Anon

            Anon at 1:38, is the lesson of history that every single economy since prehistory has always been either capitalist or Marxist? If not, I am not sure what your point is.

        • Anon

          Were you reading this morning? Two or three people said they were laid off in the last day or so. And this board skews white collar, salaried professional, not gig economy workers. This is just the very beginning. The economy is falling off a cliff.

        • anon

          The layoffs are coming. Soon. No one is safe.

          I’m personally doing ok because we have a huge amount of money sitting in cash because we were saving for a down payment (so lucky timing worked out that way) so really could weather a long bout of unemployment, but that’s like 2% of the population.

          I’ve spent a significant portion of this past week talking to businesses of all sorts (including those you’d assume are “safe”) about their options for furloughs, layoffs, hours reductions, etc. Just because everything is ok for you today does not mean it will be if this continues for 2 months. And it seems pretty callous to downplay the 10 million people who claimed uninsurance just this week as NBD.

      • Anonattorney

        It’s not terrible if you have a job or some sort of income, a warm house, and a family. But, the reality is that millions of people don’t have that. Their lives are going to be devastated if this continues for two more months. The government aid helps, of course, but it’s not enough. And we can’t afford $6 trillion more stimulus packages. I think there should be rolling closures in communities that aren’t currently inundated, coupled with heavy investment in building more hospitals, cross-training medical workers, and making and buying necessary equipment. Or something. Some other plan.

        • Anon

          For many people losing their jobs, they are going to make more on unemployment. The $600 extra per week will put many people above their normal rate of pay and that is for an extended amount of time. Many of those jobs will still exist when the stay at home orders are lifted. For example, health care facilities are laying off people because there are no non-emergent procedures right now. That demand is going to go back to normal if not tripled (people that put off appointments plus the regular appointments) so those jobs will be there again. The temporary stress is absolutely worth saving lives. We don’t want to be Italy and NYC is already getting close.

          • Anonattorney

            I don’t think your assumptions are true. Demand for healthcare won’t go back to normal when these are lifted, because people will lose heath insurance. Not everyone who has lost their income can get unemployment. Gig workers, nonprofit employees, and small business owners, for example, likely can’t collect any unemployment. There won’t be enough SBA money for everyone who needs it. When everything starts up again, it’s going to start up slowly. Not every business is going to immediately open back up, so many people who lost their jobs will be out of work for an extended period of time. The government isn’t going to continue sending people an extra $600/week.

            Maybe you’re right, and 6 months from now we will be through this and cheering the lives we saved while everything goes back to normal. I really hope so. Sadly, I don’t think that will be the case. And maybe there isn’t a better option and we just have to live with the tragic collateral consequences of social distancing. But we need to start being really honest with ourselves about the impact of these decisions. We need to prioritize testing and collecting data so we can identify communities that can reopen (or stay open), because they either have enough hospital beds, or because enough people have already gotten sick. We need to make sure every dollar is spent responsibly and with high impact (shift tons of government spending to medical equipment, making more hospital beds, training medical staff). We need to allow certain sectors of the economy to reopen and operate if it can be done safely (i.e., take a harder look at what constitutes “essential” businesses).

            Just some thoughts. I’m hoping that the next few weeks will bring a lot of innovation. Crossing my fingers!

        • Anon

          Also, repeating a meme I’ve seen: our grandparents were called off to war. We are being called to our couches. And if you hate laying on a couch, there are plenty of exercises you can do indoors.

          • Anon

            Seriously. The isolation measures I’m taking are less than what many people have to take because they’ve gone through chemo or received an organ transplant. And it’s preventive, so I’m not suffering from the conditions that require those kinds of interventions.

            War would be incomparably worse to go through.

          • Monday

            Gently and respectfully, I find this meme demoralizing as a health care worker. I think solidarity is helpful at times like these, and this “we” excludes so many people.

          • Pure Imagination

            I think this is true for high-income individuals (in general) without major health needs or catastrophes. However, it’s certainly a test of our resilience. I’ve found myself falling to pieces over tiny little things and I’ve seen several ways in which my resilience could be improved. My relatives went through much worse.

          • Anon

            Monday, thanks for your input. The “we” I read it to refer to are the people complaining about having to stay home. What healthcare workers are going through right now is absolutely terrible and you have all of my respect!

    • Anonymous

      We wouldn’t have had to have done this if there were smart people with a plan in our government. We would have had working test kits and could have contained and tracked instead of mitigating and suppressing.

      • Anonymous

        +1. If we continue with social distancing, most of us will still catch it eventually, but not all at once. This means that demand for health care services and supplies will be spread out over a longer, more manageable period instead of coming in one devastating rush. It also buys us some time to catch up with production of test kits, masks, ventilators, drugs, etc., and to test out treatments.

      • Anonymous

        (This is assuming we acted quickly, as soon as the data came in from China. Instead I’m seeing people complain that China suppressed information and allowed travel out of Wuhan, which are both fair criticisms, but it’s not like we acted with timeliness on the information that was released, listened to our own pandemic experts, or used available tests instead of choosing to make and then botch our own, etc.)

        • Anonymous

          WHO posted an alert on this Dec. 31. By then Japan and Thailand already had cases.

    • Horse Crazy

      If you’re all for flattening the curve, then you need to be all for social/physical distancing. Why is two more months of this not realistic?

      • Anonattorney

        Because I don’t think the economy can handle it. It’s just not feasible. There are also so many frightening collateral impacts. In my state, child abuse reporting has dropped by 70%. It’s not because there is no abuse. It’s because there are no eyes on the kids being abused. The same goes for domestic violence.

        • Anon

          What did reporting typically accomplish beforehand? I would guess that a lot of the same households are already on social workers’ radar. I’m not saying any of this is okay, but we were knowingly sending kids home to unsafe households before the lock down too.

          • Anon

            Not OP, but I don’t think reporting is the only factor. There’s a clear link between economic and emotional stress and an increase in domestic violence and child abuse.

          • Anonattorney

            Reporting is the first step. The government cannot interfere with a family without having some reason to investigate, get a warrant, etc. It’s not perfect, but it’s certainly better than nothing.

        • Anonymous

          gov pritzker put it this way – you might lose your life with covid and you might lose your livelihood with the strong measures we need to take to reduce the spread. but without your life you have no livelihood. saving lives comes first.

      • Anonymous

        Mental. health. If you don’t understand this, count yourself as lucky.

        • anon

          This. Plus the link between unemployment and child abuse/domestic violence is high. This is *not* just about some trust fund kid losing a zero in his hedge fund account.

        • Anon

          I do have to worry about my mental health. I suffer from anxiety and depression. It would be a lot worse if I had to go out around potentially infected people and if the number of people I knew sick and dying was higher. I’m not saying I’m doing great. I’m just saying this is the lesser evil right now.

          I do have so much sympathy with people struggling with their kids and spouses 24/7.

    • Anon

      I get scared thinking about worst case too. (Will my toddler have no school and no playdates for several years until we have a vaccine!? G-d I hope not). But. Keep in mind that most of us are less than 3 weeks into this thing. Hundreds of treatments are being considered and quite a few have already started clinical trials. Some seem promising. Will there be a silver bullet that “cures” this virus? Probably not. But treatments that cut hospitalization/ICU rates even a little would do a world of good for our overwhelmed healthcare system and save tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of lives. At the same time, testing (both COVID and antibody) is ramping up, so we will have a better idea soon of how many people have it and in what parts of the country, and how many people have already had it and recovered. People who have antibodies for it may be able to return to work earlier than others (the UK is already talking about “immunity passports” that let survivors go about their lives as normal).
      Remember, the goal isn’t to stay inside until the virus is totally gone and keep 98% of us from getting COVID. The goal is to not all get COVID in the next month, and to buy time for treatments to be developed. A month or two of social distancing can do that.

      • Anon

        I fully support immunity passport. I even had a (probably crazy) where low risk people are exposed to virus in batches, in a controlled way with full isolation and ICU support if needed. Once they are through that, they can get back to having normal lives.

    • anon

      Many of the smart people in government quit or were fired before the pandemic, and we wasted an entire month with 45 pretending it was a hoax / would magically disappear. An entire month! We lost our chance to contain this. Unfortunately, the situation is about to get worse, not better. Normal life is not coming back anytime soon.

      • Anon

        I’m no fan of Trump but no European country has been able to contain it either.

        • Anonymous

          No one had contained it but Germany and Austria donor have overwhelmed hospitals and high death rates like the us

          • Anon

            That may have a lot to do with the willingness of people to comply with social distancing orders (to be stereotypical, Germans are rule followers) as well as susceptibility of the population (eg., Italy has more elderly people, US has more overweight people, etc.)
            Don’t get me wrong, I’d much rather have Merkel than Trump, but I don’t really know what specific steps she’s taken that directly correlate to health better outcomes.

        • amberwitch

          So far we in Denmark seem to have somewhat of a handle on it. At least the government is starting to plan a slow opening up the country again after Easter.

    • Shopaholic

      Yes I don’t think we’re talking enough about the mental health impacts.

      Note, in Toronto, they’re basically saying there will at least 12 more weeks of the social/physical distancing. That’s almost 4 full months. I’m single, live alone in a condo building so I have to bypass many common elements if I want to go outside. I haven’t talked to a loved one in real life in 3 weeks (have been doing lots of video calls but it’s not the same). I’m basically looking at the prospect of 4 months without physical touch from another human.

      I totally agree that we need to take this seriously and it’s important. I’m not one of those people saying that “the cure is worse than the illness” or anything but I am a bit scared of what’s going to happen to me and other people in similar situations.

      • Ellen

        Agreed. We are human, and we need contact, if not full s-xueal contact, at least face to face contact. Holeing up in our apartments do NOT fully work, even with facetime and zoom and webex. I think alot of people will go nuts w/o contact, especially those who were used to alot of physicality. In my case, I can get by, but I do appreciate personal contact. Fortunately, I will be abel to go home for Passover b/c I have isolated for weeks now, and my Dad will drive in to pick me and Myrna up b/c he does NOT want us on the train, even tho the LIRR is running pretty empty. I am able to go home b/c the courts are shut, and all my depos are being continued. New cases are coming in, but we have gotten continueances from the claimant’s counsels, as they too can not get much done w/o court approval of scheduling, tho by filing, they can avoid the statue of limitaiton. I really wish this was a bad dream we could just wake up and it would be over, but it is not. But since we can’t, we have to be strong and we will get through it.

    • Anon

      I can handle a month or two. What really scares me is that it seems like this will drag on well past the summer. My area is not especially hard hit, and the university I work for has already informally announced that classes will not resume in person in the fall. That really shook me. I don’t worry about myself – my family is financially secure and emotionally stable and I can deal with not going on any vacations for a year or two, although I will whine about it. But I worry that if everything is fully shut down for a year or more, the economic collapse will destroy so many lives, especially so many young lives. I worry about all the kids who won’t get any education (or even food) with schools shut, and about the increase in domestic violence and child abuse that will come from 30% or more unemployment.

      • Anonymous

        No classes in the fall?! Are you in the US???

        I would cry — I have school-aged kids and am managing with work now but barely and cannot envision having no camp and no fall school. I guess my kids will either be feral or autodidacts at that point. I may need to get an au pair (like that is going to happen with this going on) or consider SAHM (if my spouse doesn’t get let go — a real risk for us).

        • Anon

          Learned a new word! (Autodidacts). Thanks!

          For those with kids doing virtual learning, how is that going? There are a lot of complaints in my district. The kids were all given chrome books and Comcast secured internet for everyone. However, the work is apparently self directed and doesn’t involve watching live classes with the teacher or the teacher even recording lectures for the kids to watch. I guess a lot of parents thought it would be like regular school where the kids would sit and watch their teacher all day and are really upset that is not how it is going.

          I don’t have kids but I’m watching it unfold on my town’s FB page.

          • Anon

            I thought it would be live. When I’ve taught online, I’ve taught live. I guess I don’t understand why this isn’t what they’re doing.

          • Anonymous

            My kids (4th/5th grade have worksheets that they access online). 3 social zoom meetings weekly. Stuff is graded and self-taught apparently. At this level though, every subject is basically reading, which my kids can do. Math is like half math and half “carefully read the d*mn question”.

        • Anon

          Yes, in the US. To be fair, the university went online for this semester several weeks before the public schools closed, and one of the reasons I’ve heard given for online classes is that (unlike K-8 students) college students do learn pretty well online. And people are aware of the fact that the public schools provide quite a few kids with their only substantial meals of the day. So the university going online and the public schools being closed aren’t synonymous. But it still has me worried.

      • anon

        I agree. I live in New Orleans. Louisiana has a high poverty rate, almost no social safety net, and a state budget that depends on oil. New Orleans has the same, plus an economy that depends on tourism. My concern about the economy collapsing is not my 401K, it’s that eventually, housing and food insecurity, plus the drying up of whatever aid is currently available, will create a second wave of public health crises. I think 2 more months is feasible because that’s how long the federal money is projected to last. If this stretches into summer, it’s going to really hurt, but that’s the slow season here. If this stretches into or repeats in the fall, the busy season (and the time that all the spring events have been rescheduled to), I can’t see businesses coming back from that. I also put the chances of a bipartisan federal law with more aid in the months before the November election at zero (if we have an election in November–I put the chances of that at about 60%).

    • Anon

      I mean… I was all for this until DH got furloughed. He works in software development for a company that manufactures products. His job was fine– he could work remotely and was doing his same job as before. However, the factory is closed because of social distancing requirements. These products are generally made to order, so it’s not like there is overstock waiting to be sold. He was furloughed because, even though his projects can still go forward, there is not money to pay him right now… and I’m sure the company is wondering what the point is of going forward with the projects if it won’t be there in a few months.

    • Anonymous

      Yes and frankly, I am livid with all the for profit hospital systems in this country right now. They all appear to be running so close to the margins—where was the disaster preparation? Why didn’t they have stockpiles of PPE and more ventilators? The entire economy is shut down, for at least two months, because hospitals were not prepared. And they expect the federal government to bail them out! I can promise you that year after year, the CEOs at these large hospital systems were making money hand over foot. And because no one prepared, and no one thought it wise to allocate a sufficient budget into disaster preparedness, the entire economy is shut down. It is devastating, and I wish there was a way to clawback executive compensation at each and every hospital system that elected to be underprepared for a disaster. This isn’t unheard of, and I certainly know that large for profit corporations prepare and allocate for disasters that no one expects will really happen.

      • Anon

        I’m sorry, you’re mad at the *hospitals* for wanting government bailouts?

        • Anon

          Not the author of the post above, I am not mad that the hospitals needing government bailouts, I am mad at hospitals so under-prepared that they are blaming federal government for shortages of PPEs and ventilators. How did the run out of PPEs in a week and why is federal government directly responsible for this? As an aside, if federal government is held responsible, why are state and local governments let off the hook? Don’t states and local governments have power and responsibility to prepare for an emergency?

          • NYNY

            I don’t think you understand the astronomical use of PPE right now. My NYC academic medical center has roughly 2,000 COVID patients admitted, with roughly a quarter of them in ICU on vents. We are going through 100,000 masks a day. We were well-stocked before, and are doing everything possible to restock, but the government is necessary for a disaster of this scale.

          • Anon

            This is an oversimplification of the issue. The virus itself is requiring exponentially more PPE use. This isn’t like someone forgot to restock the supply closet. It’s more like if you had stocked up for a family of five to go a month without going to the grocery store but fifty people showed up instead. It doesn’t matter how prepared you were for those five people, you’re going to be scrambling with fifty

          • Anon

            I think the hospitals could have at least put the PPE behind lock and key before thousands and thousands of their supplies were predictably stolen.

      • Pure Imagination

        Meh, this isn’t totally accurate. TONS of hospitals have extremely slim operating margins and always have. Hospital closures are accelerating and have been for years. Of course they should be better prepared, but it’s not like they’re sitting on huge hordes of cash.

        • anon

          +1. The community hospital near me lost $30 million last year and is close to defaulting on its bond obligations. It’s in the process of being sold, but the sale is subject to a public vote, which was delayed from May to June because of COVID-19 (another election was pushed from March to May, which backed up the whole election calendar). It’ll likely get delayed further. Meanwhile, the hospital is just trying to stay open.

      • LaurenB

        You seem not to understand that ventilators are expensive machines, require ongoing maintenance, require specialized training to operate – it’s not like a hospital can just have 3 extra in the supply closet and blow off the dust when they are needed. You seem not to understand the magnitude of the # of ventilators needed. Not to be snarky, but it’s rather like asking you how come you didn’t already have 1200 rolls of toilet paper on hand for emergencies.

    • Anon

      *This* is the only thing that is going to work until we are able to test everyone and have a vaccine. It sucks. But it’s what we have to do. The countries that show improvement are the ones with strict physical distancing measures.

      • Anon

        So strict it would not work here. China was welding apartment complex doors shut and separating small children from their families. If authorities try that here, the people attempting enforcement will get shot. It’s totally unfair to ask them to bear that risk. We can’t do what they did in China. It won’t work.

    • Anonymous

      im in oregon and it has really been working for us. our rate of increase even as we started testing more has been slow (i think thanks to people taking social distancing seriously for the last 3 weeks). UW models show we have been pushing our estimated peak further out into the month and lower – so i think it is totally worth it. our family still has living extended family who are older and i am willing to do whtaever it takes to not have them get and succumb to covid. so i guess i am saying i dont feel the same as you in that this is not a do-able thing – it is extraordinary times, in comparison to the other option of many more people getting sick and loved ones dying, this is VERY do-able to my family

    • Anon

      I agree that it’s terrible for all of the reasons you listed (I REALLY want to go to my favorite bar with all my friends and I REALLY want to see my friends and hug them), but I think it’s the best/only thing we can do.

    • LaurenB

      Anonattorney, you know what’s really terrible for the economy? Hundreds of thousands of dead people.

      • Anon

        Really? I don’t think hundreds of thousands or even a couple million people dying would really hurt the economy at all. I’m not saying we should just decide that the economy is paramount, but I don’t understand this argument that a bunch of mostly retired people dying would hurt the economy more than 12-18 months of nobody leaving their houses.

          • Anon

            Reading comprehension…”I’m not saying we should just decide that the economy is paramount.”

            I did not say we should kill people to preserve the economy. I’m simply saying I do not understand the logic behind the thesis that a million people dying is worse for the economy than 30% unemployment and a total shutdown of all non-essential business for years. Explain the logic to me instead of clutching your pearls.

        • Juliska

          Anon at 8:58 – If you can say something that casually cruel you are probably nowhere near retirement age. I am, but can’t afford to. I know I will have even less money once this ends, but I would like to at least still be alive, even without your permission. Do you hate your parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles so much you’d sacrifice them to this virus for the good of the economy? There is no guarantee that only “other people” will get sick and die, but not one person who matters to you.

        • LaurenB

          It’s not “mostly retired people.” Again, do you not watch the news?

        • LaurenB

          I think you’re also more than a little uninformed about the world of “retired people.” I know you think it’s just great-grandma and her blue-haired cronies playing mahjong and their only expense is buying yarn for knitting and paying the nursing home, but well … you sound really young. I’m in my mid-fifties and retired; my husband will be retired in a year. I spend quite a lot on workouts (barre, yoga, pilates, spin, etc.) and a personal trainer. I buy cute workout gear and outfits for going out and new handbags. We just bought a home in Florida (that we can’t get to!!) and once this is all done with, we’ll go shop for furniture and dishes and towels and whatever. We’re already paying into the Florida economy in addition to our home state because I’m paying for pool maintenance, alarm system, etc. and of course utilities and property taxes. And of course (before all this) our plan was to travel extensively both US and abroad with our newfound freedom. I don’t know where you get that the death of retired people wouldn’t hurt the economy.

          • LaurenB

            “but their employment status is relevant since we’re talking about the economy” – No, that’s not the point and you know it.
            Retired people may not have jobs themselves, but they still impact the economy through their own spending.
            Children don’t have jobs either, but if (god forbid) waves and waves of children died, do you think that would impact the economy? Yes or no?

          • Anon

            But even if a million people died, we’re talking about the death of ~0.3% of the US. I’m not saying it’s great for the economy, I’m saying it’s better than the massive unemployment and total shutdown of all those businesses that’s happening now. Explain to me how, economically, it’s better for a yoga studio to be shut for a year than for less than 1% of its customers to die. Right now (and for the foreseeable future) they have zero customers! No one has offered an explanation of the economic argument beyond telling me I’m mean of telling me false statements about the Covid death rate.

          • Anon

            Children are obviously totally different because we depend on them to work in the future, which is obviously not true of older people. But no, I don’t think the death of 1% of the children in US would destroy the economy. Again, explain to me why losing 1% of your customers/workforce/whatever is better than losing 100% of your customers and revenue.

          • Anon

            Does the economy exist for people, or do people exist for the economy? I realize we give it a lot of power over everyone, but ultimately money is simply not real in the way that a virus is real. And money is a lot more real than something like “how well the stock market is doing.”

      • Anonattorney

        I think this is creating a false dichotomy. I agree the goal is to save lives. I would challenge people to try and figure out a better way to do that than full economic shut downs. The assumption that the only way to keep people safe are full quarantine measures (or severe social distancing) is presumptuous. Actual infection rates are significantly higher than we know (bc insufficient testing). We already are operating on the assumption that everyone will eventually be exposed to the virus. Keeping everyone inside for an indefinite period of time may not be the best answer. If we all just keep assuming that social distancing is the ONLY answer until we have a proven vaccine available to people on a mass basis, the fabric of our country will unravel.

  15. Lawyer still going to courthouses

    Given my line of work I am one of the only lawyers left going to court every day in my city. It’s been crazy as the people outside keeps dropping. Just feels very surreal – I wish I could take pictures of how empty everything is. Lots of time to quietly think. The theory is even I might be by phone and video only next week and it’s going to be a big shock not going to the courthouse every day.

    • Anon

      Ask if you can take a picture! This is historic. My husband had a federal court hearing via zoom and the judge said they could all take a picture of their screens if they wanted even though it is not normally allowed. You will be telling the next generation about this some day just like us New Englanders grew up hearing about the great blizzard of 78.

    • Senior Attorney

      And in another sign of the apocalypse, the presiding judge of the L.A. Superior Court just announced all lawyers making court appearances may wear business causal for the duration. Crazy, man.

      • LaurenB

        Good! Then ultimately they’ll realize, like the rest of the working world, that there’s no reason one can’t wear business casual.

      • Senior Attorney

        And… Day 1: Two guys still fully suited up, one guy in suit and dress shirt with open collar and no tie. Stay tuned. I’m wearing what I always wear but arguably I’ve been skating on the edge of business casual for quite some time.

  16. Anon

    @Kat — The recent change in CAPTCHA is so terrible. I’m having to fill out anywhere between 4 – 10 (and usually 2 at a minimum) just to access the site, and having to re-do it repeatedly! Frankly, it was barely manageable before, but now it’s getting to a point where it’s deterring from visiting the site. I’m in Asia.

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