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Our daily workwear reports suggest one piece of work-appropriate attire in a range of prices.
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Sales of note for 9.30.24
- Nordstrom – Beauty deals through September
- Ann Taylor – Extra 30% off sale
- Banana Republic Factory – 50% off everything + extra 20% off
- Boden – 15% off new styles
- Eloquii – Extra 50% off sale
- J.Crew – 50% off select styles
- J.Crew Factory – Up to 60% off everything + 50% off sale with code
- Lo & Sons – Warehouse sale, up to 70% off
- M.M.LaFleur – Save 25% sitewide
- Neiman Marcus – Friends & Family 25% off
- Rag & Bone – Friends & Family 25% off sitewide
- Spanx – Lots of workwear on sale, some up to 70% off
- Talbots – Fall Cyber Monday sale, 40% off sitewide and $5 shipping
- Target – Car-seat trade-in event through 9/28 — bring in an old car seat to get a 20% discount on other baby/toddler stuff.
- White House Black Market – 40% off select styles
And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!
Some of our latest threadjacks include:
- What to say to friends and family who threaten to not vote?
- What boots do you expect to wear this fall and winter?
- What beauty treatments do you do on a regular basis to look polished?
- Can I skip the annual family event my workplace holds, even if I'm a manager?
- What small steps can I take today to get myself a little more “together” and not feel so frazzled all of the time?
- The oldest daughter is America's social safety net — change my mind…
- What have you lost your taste for as you've aged?
- Tell me about your favorite adventure travels…
Ellen
Yay Elizabeth! I love your choice for Fruegel Friday’s Valentine’s day! And Only $49.50 less 40% with a coupon that you provided for us! Kudo’s!
I am noting Valentine’s day as the day I learn to be confident in my own skin, not needing a man to validate me. I read about women who submit to men just b/c they do not feel complete w/o them and that is NO LONGER ME! I am practicing “mindfulness” and this involves me being me, not me pleasing some man. I feel SOOOOO much better as an independent female professional who can stand on her own two feet. I recommend all ‘Rettes follow my lead, as we are stronger together like trees in the forest, then alone! I am studying on line and will report peridocally back to the hive on my progress! YAY!
Boring small town lawyer
I posted a long time ago about a super long time ago boyfriend who started texting me out of the blue. He has a mildly famous wife (you’ve probably seen her art but she’s not a household name).
Anyway at your advice I started basically ignoring him (responding ever four or five days). And we talk mostly about books and games. Nothing personal other than some cute pictures of his cat and/or my kid and dog. Honestly we don’t talk much. Looks like 20 text messages total in a week.
Anyway he has advised me that he applied for and received a job offer in my town. (I don’t live somewhere major like Chicago or New York, you’d have to be looking to move here). This is a 100K town where he has no one he knows (he’s moving from a major city) half way across the country. He’s told me the timing just made sense because they were looking to move to a smaller place and their lease is running out etc.
No idea if his wife knows what’s up. She might have known my maiden name but I doubt she’s kept track of me. I’m just a boring small town lawyer he dated in high school.
What do I do? Please help.
Anon
If you’re responding to him, you’re not ignoring him! But if you’re confused you can always just ask him bluntly why he would apply to a job in your town and bring up your reservations.
Anonymous
This jumped out at me too. A friend and I were recently discussing The Rules – a 90s era dating book for women. It advises to not respond to a guy for 4-5 days to get him to be more interested in you.
Also 20 texts a week is more than I text most guys I date.
Senior Attorney
I don’t text my husband 20 text messages in a month!
My advice is to cut this out and tell him if he’s moving to your city on your account he is very sadly mistaken.
Anon
Yeah same here. I’m a little flabbergasted. 20 texts a month is not ignoring, that’s continuing to engage. Ignoring him would be blocking his number.
PDXK
I consider myself a heavy texter and 20 texts a week is more than I send anyone other than my husband, my mom and my BFF group chat.
Rainbow Hair
Ahahaha, I definitely text my besties about 20x/day. Husband is probably more like 5x/day.
Anon
OH HONEY NO. I remember your OP, and you felt he was behaving inappropriately then…and that was before he decided to pick up and move to your tiny town! Tell him in no uncertain terms not to move to your city and end contact with him completely. Responding every few days is in no way “ignoring” him. 20 text messages in a week is a ton! I don’t talk to my best friends that much.
Anon
Yikes. Stop texting him.
Anonymous
IMO 20 texts a week is a lot. I’m 35 for reference and the only people I text more than that are my mom, business partner and husband. I text my sister about that and my friends and my brothers that or less.
If you think it’s platonic, why not say something like “when will you and your wife be in town? I’d love to take you to dinner and give you the scoop on [area].” See how he reacts.
Cat
Agreed. I just scrolled through my texts to compare — I text but not a ton (mid 30s) and the only person I text at least 20 times per week is my husband. And half of that is letting him know I’m leaving the office!
You either need to make it clear you’re not interested in an affair, or stop the texting altogether.
Anon
Ehhh, I have lots of friends I text way more than that. Some of them are even male!
Anonymous
You text your ex more than 20x a week and your DH isn’t bothered by that?
Anon
I text my best friend at least 20 times per day. At least.
Anon
“I text my best friend at least 20 times per day. At least.”
How do you get any work done? Serious question.
Anon
Yup, that’s exactly what I said, Anonymous @ 10:48!
Anon
I get my work done. It’s not that hard. When you have a long commute like I do (and plenty of boring af conference calls to boot), it’s easy to bang out tons of texts with no effort.
Anonymous
Say you are looking forward to welcoming him and his wife to your town, and that you look forward to meeting her.
Anonymous
20 texts/week is a lot — like I don’t text my mom or sister that much and with my spouse it’s a lot of “I’m running late will get kids u get dinner”
Either he’s flirting poorly or you’re his boredom fix.
Anonymous
The fact that you’re bragging here makes it seem as if you are really enjoying the idea that this dude finds you more interesting and attractive than his famous wife.
Anonymous
Yup
LaurenB
Oh for heaven’s sake, she’s not bragging, she is describing a situation. Really, the snark-o-meter doesn’t need to go to 11 for every post.
Anon
Did you see the initial post? Between the two of them there’s a very strong sense that she’s smug about this guy being more into her than his famous wife. If it’s not smug, why mention the wife’s fame at all? It’s not at all relevant to whether his actions are appropriate or how she should respond.
Angela
Okay, then what relevance does it have to her question that his wife is a semi-famous artist whose work we’ve probably seen? NONE. But clearly the OP finds it relevant for some reason…
Anonymous
She clearly wants our approval to have an affair with this guy.
Eh
+1, she’s into it or she wouldn’t be responding to him. This is not a rejection she wants our help to construct; it’s an affair she wants us to encourage.
Anon
Somebody’s jealous.
Not Legal Counsel
This sounds like a normal situation to me – if the texting is plutonic, and it sounds like it is. Keep it friendly and short. He’s probably just reaching out because they are moving and he knows you live in the area.
Anonymous
She’s texting with him several times a day for no reason. I have a pretty laid back marriage and even I know that’s not cool unless the spouses know, which it sounds like isn’t the case. I think even more telling is that she says she isn’t responding. I barely have time to respond to family and friends that much.
Anon
Yeah and in her first post, she said she felt like the guy was hitting on her and hiding the relationship from his wife. This post is all “we’re friends, it’s cool” but that was NOT the tone of the first post.
Anon
Yes, this. TBH, I really doubt that he’s somehow convinced his wife to move across the country to a small town just so he could lowkey seduce you. I’m guessing he’s just interested in a friendship with someone he knew a long time ago. I would message him back and say, “oh that’s great, I think you’ll love [small town]. Let me know when you guys will be here and we can all get together. I’m really looking forward to meeting [your wife].”And if you haven’t already, tell your husband that this guy got in touch and that they (use “they”) are moving to town and that you should all get together when they arrive to welcome them.
If this sounds weird to you, then I bet there’s more going on than you’ve told us.
Anonymous
This. If you’re not comfortable suggesting a double date when they arrive, you need to rethink your involvement with this guy.
Anon
100k people isn’t really a small town, especially if it’s near other similarly sized or larger cities. It’s not a glamorous destination, but it doesn’t scream “I’m trying to be all up in OP’s business” to me.
Anon
Uhhh as someone who lives in a metro area of ~200k, I very much disagree. I live in a town none of you have heard of, I’m sure, and there’s very little industry here outside of the one big employer. It would be absolutely bizarre for someone to move here from across the country knowing no one unless they had a job opportunity at the big employer in town (the university). No one would ever move here on a whim because their lease in New York was ending. What people think of as “small” cities, like Des Moines, have metro areas with populations in excess of half a million. A 100k population is TINY for a city, and he’s clearly moving there because of his connection to OP.
anon
This probably says more about my background than anything else but a 100k person city still feels big to me.
Anon
I mean, it’s all relative. 100k is big compared to rural areas. But a town that size isn’t likely to have a lot of job openings across a variety of industries the way mid-size cities do. When people flee NYC for smaller cities, they usually look at cities in the 500k-2M population range. And she’s halfway across the country from him – what’s wrong with all the smaller cities closer to his home?
Senior Attorney
This times a million and I hope I’m wrong but I bet OP would not be at all comfortable with that scenario.
Jeffiner
Yes. My tenth-grade summer camp BF messaged me on FB a couple of years ago. We texted a lot catching up, although its since faded to an occasional text. We’re both married now, and his wife asked to become FB friends with me. No problem. (My husband does not have FB, but I had told him about the first message and all the texts.) I found out my old BF’s wife is pretty awesome, and I’m actually better friends with her now. They still live near the small town I grew up in, but I moved half way across the country. Whenever I go back both couples meet up and hang out.
Anonymous
20 text messages in a week is a lot. Messages every 4-5 days is hardly ignoring someone … jeez, I don’t even text my family that much!
I think you need to do some damage control here, as he’s clearly seeing more of an emotional connection than you are. Cut.this.relationship.off.
Anon
4 to 5 times per day would be 28 to 35 messages per week.
Anonymous
Girl what? You’re texting 20 times a week. Stop.
Anon
If you’re regularly texting with a married man that frequently on a weekly basis, you’re just inviting trouble, honestly. Also, it’s interesting the way you chose to describe yourself and his wife. Consciously or not, you seem to be pretty into the idea that he’s interested in you, a “boring small town lawyer”, when he has such a chic wife.
??
You guys are a bit odd to me but the messaging is consistent so I’m going to go with you guys know better and that I am the weirdo.
K. I will just block him and hopefully he’ll get the message.
I don’t have him on social media of any form even professional ones. I text people a lot I guess? Twenty messages didn’t seem like a lot for me. We don’t call. We don’t tweet.
I talk to a lot of married people because guess what, at a certain age most people have partners. Again mostly about books, video games, cats etc.
And honestly I am super not interesting. I’ve looked at our messages and the last thing I told him was about an overdue library book.
He lives in a major city with a cool wife who presumably has cool friends and cool things going on. He should stay there. >_>
Anonymous
You’re the one who keeps posting for advice!
Anonymous
She wants to humble brag about the fact that she thinks he’s interested in her despite the ‘chic wife’.
Anon
“He lives in a major city with a cool wife who presumably has cool friends and cool things going on. He should stay there. >_>”
Then tell him that! He’s preparing to move to your city, and you need to tell him not to move on your account. Unless you’re secretly into this guy leaving his famous wife for you, which you obviously are.
Cat
The question isn’t the substance of the texts, it’s why you’re texting with him at all. Like why exactly do you feel the need to tell your ex about your overdue library books??
Cat
Ah, miss the edit button. No one is saying texting with someone who is married is a problem. It’s texting with an EX that’s odd, particularly under these circumstances.
cbackson
You don’t have to block him – you can just not respond unless the text clearly requires a response (like, “My wife and I are coming to check out Small City. Would you and your husband like to get dinner?”). It’s not that he’s married that’s setting off alarm bells for people – it’s that (if we’re all remembering correctly), you were concerned about this when you first posted about it. And something is obviously concerning you now, because you’re posting again. My question to you would be this: what’s prompting that concerned feeling? I’d spend some time thinking about that so you can figure out whether this is a friendship you should continue. Other questions to consider:
-Does he mention his wife in these text messages or does he omit mentioning her (even when it would be normal to do so)?
-Conversely, does he discuss/complain about her or their relationship to you?
-Does your husband know about this friendship? Have you told him this person is potentially moving to town?
-How do you feel when you see you have a new text from him and how does that compare to how you feel when you see a text from another friend?
Angela
I mean, you’re the one who said “I’m not sure his wife knows what’s up.” If the texting is totally innocent, then what IS up? What do you mean by that statement? Clearly you know that either he or you or both are out of line here, so stop.
Anon
Lol @ ignoring him = 20 text messages in a week.
It could be him catching up with you so that he can ask you about living in the small town and wanted to catch up so it doesn’t seem like he’s asking you a favor after years of no contact – this is probably what’s going on. But if you have any reservations about talking to him, then just stop or keep it succinct to answering his questions about the town. No doubt you will run into him if he moves there though, so get used to feeling awkward.
Anonymous
Set the tone by replying that you look forward to taking him and his wife out to dinner when they move there. Do not socialize without the wife the first few times. Make sure you socialize only in public places thereafter until the situation is clear.
I’m not like Mike Pence, I totally think men and women can hang out and be friends but you don’t have an established in person friendship with this guy and you want to be clear about your message that you are sending. Don’t invite him over for solo dinner at your house as the first get together.
Anon
Going to be the voice of dissent and say 20 text messages a week is not inherently a problem unless there are other factors (content of messages, being secretive about messages, there was a crazy intense breakup, etc.). I’m on the young side for this board, but there are all sorts of people I text that much (including married men I was friends with back in school and people I’m reconnecting with).
Do you want to be friends with him if/when he moves? Great, talk to your spouse and invite his family over for dinner when they move. Do you not? Stop replying to messages. Somewhere in between? Adjust accordingly. If something comes up that more clearly suggests that he or you wants an affair, make more boundaries.
Anon
I agree that 20 texts/week with a male friend isn’t inherently a problem, especially for people who text a lot. But 1) he’s an ex, not just a friend, 2) she obviously has some kind of gut feeling that his intentions aren’t entirely benign because she’s posted about it here at least twice, 3) she described 20 texts/week as “ignoring” him, which is ridiculous no matter how much you text, and 4) the guy is now proposing relocating from his major city to her small town with no apparent reason except his lease is up (!?). That’s a lot of red flags…
Angela
OP said, “I’m not sure his wife knows what’s up,” which to me is the biggest red flag — why would she think there is something for the wife to “know” if this is just totally normal platonic friend behavior?
Anonymous
Didn’t see your first post — how long has this text friendship been going on? Are we talking 4 wks or 6 mos? How intimate do you get in what you talk about? Intimate doesn’t need to mean love/relationship stuff but for example did you talk about Christmas? Trips you’ve taken/want to take? Your parents/siblings? Are you letting him into emotional spaces in your life that are meant for partners and friends? Or is it all overdue library books and omg Target was so crowded today?
Anonymous
How is it 20 texts a week if you’re only texting him every 4-5 days? When you first said 4-5 days I assumed you were just sending the occasional “thumbs up” and saying “haha cool” but not really engaging, which is what I might do if I was trying to nicely indicate that I don’t wanna be rude but I also don’t want to be particularly close with someone (that and intentionally waiting a day or so before responding). 20 sounds like a lot, and not ignoring him. If you were intentionally texting him every here and there to sound icy so he wouldn’t get the wrong idea, that didn’t work.
I can see wanting to reconnect with someone if you happen to be moving to their town and you’re the only person there they know, but you may want to make it clear that you hope he enjoys the area as much as you do, but you have no interest in being anything more than a casual acquaintance.
Eloise
I didn’t see your first post, but it seems at least possible that he initiated contact in part because he was applying to a job in your area and wanted to reconnect with someone who lived there. In that case, his wife may know that he reached out to a long-ago girlfriend (especially if things weren’t that serious between you?) and be fine with him reconnecting with someone so that they can have friends in their new town. (Maybe not? But I don’t think the only story is that he is hopelessly in love with you). That said, I would back off the communication unless and until his wife is involved. So, a double date with them if they move there? Okay. But coffee with just him? I wouldn’t.
Anon
This is the original post if anyone is curious: https://corporette.com/tamara-mellon-pvc-pumps/#comment-3934631
You said it was very obvious there were problems in his relationship and he seemed jealous and resentful of his wife’s success. Everyone unanimously agreed that exes can be friends, but this guy’s intentions were not innocent. You said you would block him, that you and his wife both deserved better, and you didn’t want any part of his drama. Now you’re telling us that you’re texting him 20 times per week and asking if it’s a good plan for him to move to your small town? Girl. You know the answer here. Block him for real this time.
Anonymous
She doesn’t want to block him. She wants to humble brag that he’s interested in her. 9/10 chance the next post is about him moving to her town and her leaving her husband for him but him refusing to leave his wife.
cbackson
Oh man, +1 to all this. I’d forgotten how red-flaggy the original post was.
Anon
If the guy is jealous of his wife’s success, then he’s looking for someone he can feel superior to. Do not be that woman.
KT
EXPOSED dayummm
Anon
My husband and I are really good friends with my high school sweetheart and his wife. They moved to my town and were looking for friends. Here’s the difference – he texted me and said they were moving back and looking for new friends, and then he gave me his wife’s number and his wife and I took it from there. I wasn’t texting him back and forth in secret! You know better.
Anon
+1 million to all this, especially “you know better.” My husband and I are friendly with my husband’s summer camp girlfriend. He was open and honest about their communication from the start and she happens to live near us for reasons unrelated to wanting to bang my husband, so we’ve socialized with her a few times, which I’m completely cool with it. This guy is keeping you a secret from his wife, and is now dragging his wife to your city because he wants to be near you. This is incredibly sketchy and you know it.
anon
This. I am friends with a guy my husband and I went to college with. Said guy drunkenly professed his undying love for me at a random wedding, after I was already married. Several years later he married someone, and several years after that we all ended up not only living in the same town (small city where you run into people all the time), but had kids at the same time who were in the same class at the same school. Because of course. But I ended up meeting his wife and she’s totally awesome and I’m much better friends with her than I ever was with him. We’ve clearly all moved on and pretend the confession of love never happened.
OP’s situation seems questionable, but it could fairly easily be steered back onto platonic territory if it has gone anywhere it shouldn’t have. Making a point to meet and befriend his wife will definitely cool things down if they are in inappropriate territory. Blocking him now seems really weird, especially since you will definitely be running into him all the time if you live in a town that size.
NJAnonymous
This gives me major “Crazy Ex-Girlfriend” vibes. Look out for spontaneous sing-a-longs, girl.
Date wear?
Happy Valentine’s Day ‘rettes!
A question: I have an interesting first date this Sunday where we will be going up to this spot with a 360° degree city view ( driving there!) to catch the sunset, then later go to a local bar with a live band for burgers. What does one wear for such an afternoon/evening? This is the first first date in a while, where I am not coming right from the office (and thus don’t fuss over what to wear)
Ps: I’m in the southern hemisphere and it’s summer these sides.
Pss: in my early thirties.
Anon
For something like that, I’d wear a cute patterned sundress, a denim jacket, and my white sneakers. FWIW, I’m in my 30s as well.
Flats Only
Keep in mind that if the building with the 360 view has an outdoor observation deck, that deck may have significant updrafts, which could make controlling a billowy dress a nuisance!
Date wear?
Definitely looking out for this. Wind’s expected.
The booties with jeans it is!
Anonymous
A cute casual dress.
Anon
1) make sure this will be a crowded area where you can’t be murdered in seclusion and tell someone where you’re going
2) this seems super casual to me – just do jeans, booties, cute top and light jacket.
Date wear?
Thanks for this! It should be fairly crowded though
Rainbow Hair
If it’s not super hot, jeans, booties, cuter-than-usual tee, LJ.
If it’s too hot for that, longish sundress (like knee length or longer), flat or wedge sandals, LJ.
Cement Floors?
Just closed on a modern-ish condo where the ground floor level has a concrete floor (this is inside — sort of a den/office and where the w/d is). Prior owner didn’t make it the stained glossy polished concrete that you see on HGTV. Instead, it has been painted (and the paint is chipped/peeling, not a good look). Anyone else have this? If I paint, I imagine it will become an annual maintenance item. Put in wood-looking vinyl planks (I wouldn’t do wood initially b/c it seems like there may be moisture issues or were in the past, based on the baseboard condition).
Anon
Google “Dyed Concrete Skim Coat”. That’s what I’d do.
Flats Only
I would put in the vinyl “wood floor” or carpet tiles to make the space seem warmer, unless it’s really just going to be a laundry/utility room.
Anon
I can only add that we have concrete stairs outside that somebody painted and I really wish they hadn’t, because, you are correct, it is constant maintenance. We completely redid the paint in probably the last year and a half and there are already chips and peels. (A long time ago someone stained them with a red permanent tint something that was apparently common in my neighborhood so unfortunately in our case we can’t just revert back to them being concrete, like I wish we could, because the red stain does not look good anymore and is unremovable as far as I understand). In our case we can’t really easily cover over it with other materials like wood planks, but in your case I would definitely consider something else besides simply repainting.
Anon
I have two questions regarding PTO/vacation time at work. I posted one of them on someone else’s thread yesterday but didn’t hear much back.
1. How do you negotiate vacation time at a new job when it’s set for employees in certain service bands? What do I say when HR says “all new employees start at 2 weeks and then it goes to 3 weeks after 3 years?” Has anyone had luck negotiating better time off in situations like that, especially for large, corporate-type or academic environments with published HR policies? I’m job searching and would love to negotiate more vacation time if I can.
2. I keep hearing people say it’s really rare to take 2-3 weeks off in a row, but I feel like I’ve seen that a fair amount at all levels of seniority in my last two jobs (in consulting). I’ve taken two weeks off and no one batted an eye (and I don’t check email on vacations). I also know a lot of people who use their vacations for big trips (e.g., New Zealand, Egypt) and they’re definitely not going all that way for just one week and I haven’t heard of them getting pushback. I realize some industries must vary, but I also wonder if some people are unnecessarily limiting themselves on vacation length when their bosses really wouldn’t care much. Thoughts? I also feel that it’s discriminatory to put limits on employees’ use of their earned benefits since many people are living abroad from family or have significant family needs to attend to here and it’s really NONE of the employer’s business what they do with their earned benefits, but that’s a rant for another day.
HFB
It really depends on your field. I am in a particularly fast-paced sector of litigation and 2-3 weeks in a row would be really hard to achieve because : you can’t really control when the other side files some kind of motion that needs a quick response; you can’t really control when the court will issue decisions that need immediate action to either appeal or implement in some way; my workplace only staffs one person per client so there’s no one “minding the store” while you are away. (yeah I know that last bit is effed up but its de rigueur in legal aid). And a lot of deadlines are statutory so you can’t get extensions from the court. But in other fields you may be able to plan things better in advance.
The original Scarlett
Both of these things are highly company dependent, and depend on the culture. There’s no universal truth or answer, you have to figure it out on a case by case basis. If you’re in a competitive talent market, you might find more employers offering more vacation (one of the benefits of being in high COL areas is they tend to have more employers who need to compete for talent). There’s no harm in asking, but do your research – check Glassdoor, talk to people as you interview about the culture and see what you find out.
The original Scarlett
PS – HFB makes a good point too, it also depends on what you do. Lawyers (which many people here are) have a harder time being away for long periods of time.
Anonymous
It’s so company specific. My last place, more than a week at a time was silently frowned on. If you did it you were written off. I only did it for my honeymoon, and I was there over 10 years. My new place even the analysts take 2 weeks at a time. It’s the same industry. However, there is an expectation that you check email occasionally. (Not a lawyer.).
While I agree that it’s no ones business what you do with your PTO, more than 2 weeks would never fly. Use 3 weeks at once and you have almost nothing the balance of the year, so you create problems later when you have something else. Plus, you just created a world where the company realized they can live without you for 3 weeks, email and all. Why would they keep you in the next round of layoffs?
Anon
1. Sure, it’s just like any other negotiation where you’re asking for more than they’ve offered. I went somewhere where they offered 10 days for the first 3 years and then 15 days, and I negotiated to have 15 days right away (which is what I had at my previous employer). It was a law firm though, so you track billable hours and PTO is a bit more fungible, since they have another, more important metric for how much you’re working.
2. Highly dependent on industry and employer. In the law firms I’ve worked at, more than 1 week was unheard of unless it was a honeymoon or working remotely while visiting family abroad (which isn’t really vacation). Now I’m in-house in higher ed and while 1 week is still the “standard” vacation length, many people occasionally take 2 or even 3, especially at the winter holidays and in August, when things are dead around the office. My friends in tech take 3 or even 4 weeks at a time.
Angela
Lawyer here:
1. The way I’ve seen this handled is that the company basically gives you “credit” for time at the company with respect to vacation time in recognition of your prior experience. At my current company for example, employees get X weeks vacation when they start and X+1 weeks after 5 years. So on day 1, I was listed in the PTO system as having a 5-year tenure to bump me up to that second level. Something like that may be possible.
2. This is totally workplace- and boss-dependent. Two-week vacations are not uncommon in my experience, particularly in this day and age where you can be responsive to high-importance emails during that time and not completely checked out. That said, your comments about employers not being able to dictate how employees use their benefits, as AAM would point out, legally, in the US, they aren’t required to give you any vacation time at all, so they can condition the benefit however they want, technically speaking. As a normative matter, though, I get what you’re saying.
Anonymous
Spouse is in management where everyone gets 2 weeks from there down to the hourly guys (2 weeks sick time also, which is very rare I think). Only very senior management above him gets 3 weeks, and that’s after 5 years.
Very company dependent.
OTOH, my first job gave me 15 days of vacation time and 15 days of sick time (but paid me hardly anything).
Anonymous
This again?
Cat
yeah weren’t there dozens of responses that apply to both of these questions yesterday?
Both of these are company-culture specific.
Anon
No? There were comments on similar ideas but not in response to these questions that I saw. As always, you are free to skip a conversation and you shouldn’t feel the need to announce how dumb you think it is. Just move on.
Anonymous
Yes. And there’s clearly someone with a bee in her bonnet about vacation time who is constantly posting about this.
Anon
I know, it’s almost like vacation time in the U.S. is a complete effing joke, right? You can’t possibly be surprised that plenty of working women have issues with their time off from work in this country.
Anon
Yeah, there’s definitely only one person who would ever have questions about vacation time. Yup. You’ve cracked the case!
Anon
Can’t you just scroll on by?
cat socks
I’m in the US and work in IT and a lot of the developers are from India. It’s not uncommon for them to take 2-3 weeks off to visit family back in India due to the travel time, cost, etc. But I think it’s really an industry and office specific thing on whether or not that is the norm.
anon
Regarding item 2; I’m in consulting and my understanding is that it’s easier for consultants to take longer vacations because they can be timed around project starts and ends. Two different managers are effectively interchangeable from a consulting firm / staffing team perspective, if a new project starts during that 2 week period. That’s not true in most corporate settings, where each person really has always ongoing and non-overlapping responsibilities. Also well-run consulting firms have systemic unemployment built in to their model (~70-80% utilization), in part to quickly staff up new projects, but also to cover for vacations, parental leave, sick time, turnover without disruption to client.
Anon
Yep, also in consulting and it is a unique beast.
Anon
I’ve spent my whole career in government where pay/vacation/benefits are very much “take it or leave it” as there’s no room to negotiate, so no advice on #1!
(And despite popular belief- vacations and benefits (and pay obviously) are not comparable with the private sector. My health insurance is cheap but every other benefit is way below market rate … much like my pay)
Anon
+1 to your second paragraph!
Anonymous
It’s definitely company-specific, my old company had that system in place when I started, but apparently some really high-level hires, or hires for super niche hard-to-fill roles, got 3 weeks up front in order to secure them. What I don’t know is whether anyone had ever negotiated to get those 3 weeks up front or whether it was determined by HR and that was it. I also don’t know of anyone who had an offer revoked when they tried to do so.
I too have not typically seen someone take 2-3 weeks at one time, but if you really wanted to go on a 2-week vacation for a specific reason, and you had the time in your “bank” and you were a high performer, they’d probably let you, as long as you weren’t trying to take PTO during a time of year that’s extra busy.
Anon
The vacation policy you describe is exactly the vacation policy at my current employer and I was able to negotiate for 4 weeks (it’s PTO, so combined sick and vacation) because that’s their max, but still less than what I was leaving at my old job. That’s the key. Negotiate to match what you are leaving behind.
Anon
Agreed with everyone else that this is company specific. Some companies are less structured and will allow negotiations. Some are more rigid. I’ve had some luck working with companies who were willing to look at my overall years in the industry rather than my years at the company itself. The ones that didn’t budge on PTO ended up giving more pay to offset the difference.
Anonymous
No experience with #1 but #2 is incredibly common (large defense contractor).
The first time I took two weeks in a row – after 10 years at the company – I asked my boss if it would be okay rather than my typical “hey I’ll be out X week.” His response: “Uhhh, why on earth would it NOT be okay?” Total non issue. Higher ups tend to do it frequently. So frequently that a recent surgery was also a nonissue… my being totally disconnected for two weeks was NOT cause for concern (they were very kindly concerned about the surgery, but all is well).
Previous firm, one exec in particular always took the entire month of August (or maybe it was July I don’t remember) to go home to China with her kids to visit family. That was the only vacation time she took, and you just kind of knew that there was going to be a bit of a blackout period. No issues.
Anonymous
Just really company specific. At my fortune 100 sized non profit org there is zero flexibility in pto accruals but in many jobs a 2 week vacation would be no problem. At my previous tiny company you could negotiate whatever.
HFB
Posted yesterday afternoon but wanted to try again to get more responses. People in the US, how would your career choices change if you had access to reliable universal healthcare. This is a hypothetical so I am not so much asking whether you think UHC is realistic or achievable; but rather, imagining that it is, would you retire earlier? Go part time? Change careers? Related: if employers could no longer offer top-notch health care as a benefit, how would compensation packages change ?
Anonymous
Reposting my answer from the other side, as someone with universal healthcare already. My two criteria for a job are 1. meaningful and important work 2. good salary. Because I am not beholden to an employer to be healthy or retire I have so much flexibility in pursuing a job I’m passionate about and aligns with my values.
anon
I don’t have any specifics, but I would be far more inclined to change careers to something more meaningful/public service oriented. I’d also spend more discretionary income rather than hoarding it to prepare for the possibility that I or a family member will be hit with an unpredictable and insurmountable health care cost.
LaurenB
It makes me realize how truly cruddy things like Trump’s firing of state dept employees who have “crossed” him is — I sincerely hope none of their families have chronic health conditions. I always think about that when I see a high-profile firing.
Anon
Yes, this. I’m in government, and I don’t think my career choices or compensation would change much, but I now worry a lot about saving for retirement because of healthcare costs. If I wasn’t worried about this, I would have enormous peace of mind. I think I would still keep putting just as much into retirement right now to take advantage of compound interest, but would probably slow down at some point.
Anon
American now in Canada (Ontario). For those not familiar, the government covers the costs of seeing a doctor and everything associated with a hospital stay. You have to pay for prescriptions (and there are various programs to assist people with astronomical drug costs.) Most “good” employers offer supplemental insurance for prescription drug coverage, hospital upgrades (no shared rooms), and “nice to have” stuff like massages, physio, chiro, etc. This type of insurance doesn’t get you access to any additional/special doctors though.
In law, I don’t think having a base level of insurance changes things massively. Most people still want to work for a an employer that, if in the states, would cover their basic health insurance. People still don’t want to be laid off, or take unpaid breaks between jobs, or whatever that would lead to an uninsured status in the states. Perhaps it makes people slightly more willing to set out as sole practitioners/work at very small firms.
The original Scarlett
Wouldn’t change at all, I’ve always picked jobs for both salary and benefits and am fortunate to have worked for employers who offer great healthcare. I think this impacts freelancers and those who’d like to start their own businesses more, but that’s never been my personal goal.
Angela
I don’t know that it would actually change what I do since I love my job, but it would be one less factor on the “con” side to considering working at a small law firm or starting my own practice, or leaving the workplace altogether (since my spouse’s job has much more expensive health care benefits).
Anon
Even if it was achieved, I wouldn’t believe it would stick around until the end of my life, so no I wouldn’t rely on it. If I could *guarantee* that UHC would exist until my death, which is impossible, I’d be more open to freelance work, although I think even with free healthcare, I couldn’t walk away from my employer’s retirement benefits. Or are we talking about a fantasy world where we have UHC and guaranteed retirement pensions?
Anon
I’m Canadian. People here aren’t rolling in it or retiring earlier just because there is “free” healthcare. It’s still expected that employers offer good benefits because our healthcare doesn’t cover the dentist, eye doctor, medications, therapy, etc (unless you are low income and covered by another program). Remember that our high taxes pay for our healthcare.
Anon
And our high taxes don’t ?
Anon
lolwut. Canadian taxes are much higher than taxes in the US.
Anonymous
Not in all provinces.
anony
Curious – what do you mean by “therapy”? Physical therapy or talking/mental health therapy? I’m quite surprised this isn’t covered as part of basic coverage for a universal program.
Anonymous
Both phyiso therapy and psychology therapy are covered for free under the public healthcare system however the wait times can be long, especially for non-emergent issues or in rural areas. Because these services are also covered under employer provided ‘secondary insurance’, many people chose to skip the wait and go to private providers. There’s no private system for ‘big stuff’ like cancer care.The Canadian healthcare system isn’t ideal, but there’s no paying more to jump the line for the big stuff like cancer care etc. You get treated based on your level of sickness, not the amount in your wallet.
Anon
Psychiatry is covered if you are referred by your family doctor, but it is very hard to get an appointment (it can take months) and there is a huge lack of services. If you want to see a regular talk therapist (not a medical doctor like a psychiatrist), that’s out of pocket unless you have employer benefits, and even then I think my plan covers like $400 a year, which would be like…3 sessions maybe. There is a crisis in mental health treatment in this country.
Anonymous
That’s not true in all provinces – in my province there are also publicly available psychologists, both for the children’s and adult hospitals, inpatient and outpatient. Many people still chose private for shorter wait times, but the services are available, particularly in urgent situations. There are also public drop in clinics two afternoons a week in my city and nearby towns.
Each province’s system covers slightly different services.
anon
This!! Psychiatry has a long wait, and the services aren’t great – my partner has drug-resistant depression. They had a long wait to see a psychiatrist, and saw the doctor for about 3 minutes once a month. But they received specialized treatment daily for 8 weeks with no cost. They are commuting 350 km round trip to the nearest city weekly for psychology appointments because there is no psychologist in our community.
Like Anon at 10:30, I get $400 a year for therapy. We also have EFAP, which only covers 6 sessions, and is standard across government, so a prosecutor doing multiple homicides has the same resources as a landscaper.
Anonymous
@ Anon 11:52 – Prosecutors have 4 avenues for assistance – public health system, secondary health insurance (employer provided), employer provided EAP, Law Society EAP. I know because I’ve used all of these. Federal prosecutors are covered for $800 under the health insurance.
Anonymous
IDK — I can see “just die already” or “the wait time for this rare specialist is 9 months and in a city 6+ hours from you” as my likely options should I need any remarkable sort of care. I think that expensive medical care isn’t always great, but “free” care is likely to be even worse. Like how if you are on Medicaid, you basically can’t get any dental care.
Anon
Those are my options now, with objectively good insurance. The best medical care I ever had was when I was in the military – government run healthcare!
Anonymous
This is patently untrue. Wait times are no better in the US than they are in countries with universal systems and further the cost per person of health care is much lower in countries with universal care because the administration is centralized.
Anonymous
This. The people who are waiting are usually less sick. In the USA, the waitlists are determined by how much $ you have. No $, you die waiting. In other countries, you might wait longer for a knee replacement but if you need your cancerous tumor cut out, it’s not like you’re sitting around for months.
Anonymous
It wouldn’t change my approach all that much at the moment, although there’s a chance my husband and I could retire a few years sooner since we wouldn’t need to factor in healthcare costs as part of retirement. I work for a law firm with good benefits, my husband works for a large bank that has good benefits as well and makes healthcare not terribly expensive for employees.
However, it would emotionally make me feel a million times better and remove a lot of worrying that I do and have done for my for my two brothers, both of who have struggled with this and have sometimes only been able to have “part time” employment where their hours are kept below 32 so that they don’t get benefits.
So I would sleep much better at night, but it wouldn’t change my personal approach to my job or career all that much. I know you didn’t ask for opinions, but I personally think it’s generally pretty stupid that healthcare is tied to your employer.
Anon
I would have the option of starting my own business, or purchase a small business if the right opportunity was there.
Anonymous
Same.
Anonymous
I think it might change the risk appetite for potential entrepreneurs. For me, access to universal healthcare would be one small plus toward going freelance (consulting) or starting a small business.
Anon
100% this. I would start my own business in a heartbeat if I didn’t have to manage and pay for health insurance. On top of the cost, dealing with insurance companies is an absolute nightmare. Not sure how/if that would change under M4A, I guess, but it’s interesting to think about.
Anon
We would go part time or retire earlier for sure. We’d also take longer vacations.
Anonymous
I’d probably retire earlier, since the cost of healthcare (especially if I retire pre-Medicare age) is the biggest question mark in my retirement calculations.
Anon
Medicare doesn’t really cover any nursing or longterm care, and I doubt universal health care would either, so I think we’d still need similar retirement savings.
Anonymous
Canadian universal healthcare covers both in home nursing care and long term care facilities.
Anon
+1 Medicare sucks in a lot of ways. My parents are still working in their 70s in part because they don’t want to lose their private health insurance. That’s why I don’t really understand why Medicare 4 All is seen as some great solution to healthcare. And I’ll point out that the biggest Medicare 4 All proponents like Bernie do not actually use Medicare (he has fed govt insurance, which is amazing).
Anon
The answer is just that M4A proposes expansions. The idea is to make it competitive with private health insurance. So when people support M4A, that’s what they’re supporting. (I looked into this because I was terrified of M4A if it would mean not having any coverage for my medical needs!)
Anon
But private insurance will go bankrupt or become unbelievably expensive if all the healthy people are using M4A and only the people with high medical needs want to stay on private insurance. Insurance requires a lot of healthy people buying in to keep costs down for everyone.
Anon
Sorry, “competitive” was misleading. I meant competitive with existing plans, but definitely M4A would obliterate private insurance as we have it now. That’s why it made me nervous! I’m still nervous that they wouldn’t end up expanding it as proposed, though hopefully I personally would be in a better position to pay for certain things out of pocket if M4A lowered my healthcare expenses in general. I’ve been affected by annual changes to coverage many times before, so it’s stressful in general not to be able to plan ahead.
Anon
My ex partner had free healthcare in the US (Indian Health Service) and I don’t, and it made a big difference in how we approached decisions about work. He could weather unemployment, try out freelancing, work for small employers with no/inadequate coverage, leave a crappy job, etc. without having to worry about whether he could access healthcare should he need it. For me, those same events involved a lot more stress, tax penalties for gaps in my insurance (fortunately not an issue going forward), and would have been costly if something had happened and I had to go to the ER or a doctor.
Even when I was insured through work, I had more healthcare-related financial concerns than he did because I had to save thousands extra to cover my deductible, coinsurance, and dental/vision/mental health. I also needed far more emergency funds saved up in case of unemployment or a significant medical event than he did. If he needed to get something checked out (like a weird mole), he just made an appointment. If he wanted a second opinion or a different provider, he just asked for one. Each of those things would have cost me hundreds of dollars even while insured and paying every month for care. He also never had to worry about out of network fees, though he was limited to just the IHS providers near us for non-emergency services.
Anonymous
Probably not now, because I am married to a man who has unicorn healthcare (family coverage with no copay, benefits continue after retirement – NYC teachers union), but when I was younger and trying to be an artist, I think I would have been much more likely to work part-time or contract, and to take more risks with my career.
Anon
I’m a public servant so I have decent healthcare for a relatively low price.
Down the road is probably like to start consulting and do that full time for both financial and work/life balance reasons. This is part of the 10 year plan though, so would hopefully be married by then anyways. Not that I can guarantee that whomever I marry would have a job with healthcare benefits but it’s highly likely.
For many reasons I am looking into the reserves or national guard, and having the ability to purchase military healthcare while a reservist is an appealing option!
Anon
Reservist spouses here- Our healthcare is awesome and part of the reason I keep encouraging my husband to stay in.
For DINKS it probably makes little difference, but the family plans are awesome. I haven’t had to go out of my way to find new doctors once he joined since all my previous physicians take this plan as well. Deductibles are cheap and monthly costs are low. All the things healthcare should be!
Anon
Does anyone here subscribe to the Dave Ramsey savings/personal finance method? I have a friend who has become very entrenched in his teachings and is constantly talking about how great her financial situation and net worth is after following his methods. The way I understand it, you essentially keep a $1k emergency fund and contribute nothing to your 401k or savings until any debt aside from mortgage is paid off (I.e. car loan, student loan, etc.). I have car and student loans that I could fairly easily knock out in a less than year if I contributed nothing to my 401k and didn’t put a penny into savings. But not contributing to my 401k and not having a 6 month emergency fund just feels so “wrong” and against much of the other financial advice out there. Has anyone tried this approach? Did you feel insecure about not contributing to savings or 401k?
In-House in Houston
I did it and it works, but you don’t have to follow it to a T. I even think I’ve heard Dave Ramsey say this: if your company has a match to your 401k, if you don’t contribute up to the match you’re giving up free money. That’s what I did. I was debt free except for my mortgage in about 18 months.
Veronica Mars
My husband and I did FPU (his class) after getting married. FPU was great for getting our married lives “in order” like getting a will, term life insurance, discussing financial goals, etc. When you get into the whole program, being “gazelle intense” as he calls it, and stopping 401k, 1k emergency fund, etc. is all about making you feel like it’s an emergency and focusing on getting out of debt ASAP. If you’re not contributing to your 401k, you’re going to think twice about silly purchases because they’re costing you more. It’s also, as he notes, temporary. You’re not discontinuing your 401K forever, just for a few months to apply it to debt. You’ll also find in his programs, radio shows, etc. he does things that may not be the most mathematically advantageous way to do things (debt snowball) but are for the psychological benefit of accomplishing paying off debts (smallest to largest) — and the flip side, the psychological pressure/motivation of stopping 401K and treating your finances like an emergency (as he would say, “the emergency that it is”).
Never too many shoes...
I don’t like a lot of the DR religious leaning but the debt snowball was massively helpful to my paying off my student loans. It definitely was a psychological boost which was really helpful!
Clementine
I’ve looked into this approach and… decided against it because of some of the reasons you state.
I do know people who swear by it, including a college friend who has been featured on the national Dave Ramsey as a literal poster child (paid off like 100k in debt with spouse, suddenly became a widowed single mom before 30, the fact that they had no debt was a major plus).
We have a (very low interest) car loan that we’re not paying off because we’re getting a higher ROI elsewhere and a mortgage and that’s it. I think that if we had more unsecured debt, I would be more apt to follow those kinds of plans.
Anonymous
I feel like you could borrow against your 401 K should you ever need to, but not contributing is bad esp if any of it gets matched by your employer, which is often the case at least for the first $1K-5K and sometimes higher.
Anonymous
Your 401(K) funding is really important because that money is protected from taxes while it grows. And if your employer matches you are leaving money on the table.
Anonymous
That sounds pretty dumb to me. I mean look, if you’re in deep cc debt then maybe this is a good strategy. But a car loan? My last car loan was less than 2% interest, why would I prioritize paying that off? Or longterm debt like a student loan – sorry but when I graduated law school with $200k student loans, it’s going to take me literally years to pay that off regardless of what I’m doing with my 401k and emergency fund. I’m not going to forego years of growth on my 401k or the security of having an emergency fund (esp. since I graduated into a financial crisis) so I can pay off my debt, what, 2-3 years early, assuming I keep my job?
Anon
This. I think for someone living paycheck-to-paycheck with no savings and credit card debt, it can be a good approach. But if your only debt is low interest student loans and a low interest car loan, I wouldn’t bother with such extremes. This debt would still bother me and I would prioritize paying it off, but not above contributing to tax-protected retirement, and I wouldn’t take money out of savings to do it.
Anon
+1 Dave Ramsey is designed with high interest credit card debt in mind, not strategic debt like law school. It’s supposed to get you to stop mindlessly blowing money you don’t have, but doesn’t work as well if you already have impulse control and can follow a budget.
LaurenB
I don’t think the women of this site – generally well-educated and disciplined — are really the Dave Ramsey target. He is much more geared to the people who have consumer debt (versus health/education) and who are hemorrhaging money and need the very simple steps.
Cat
I prioritized student loans over additional savings despite my interest rate being in the low (3-4%) range — just because the psychological weight of them was irritating. So that aspect of Dave’s recommendation, I can get behind.
I would not, however, forgo 401k contributions, ESPECIALLY if your employer matches… the money that you’re missing out on would be greater than the interest saved, and even if they don’t, it’s not like you can “make up for it” the next year by contributing double.
LaurenB
I think foregoing 401K contributions that earn a company match is a stupid move.
I am twitchy about debt, but a $1,000 emergency fund feels awfully low to me, unless you know for sure you have family members who would be ready and able to swoop in and help on the spot if you had a true emergency (car broke down, refrigerator broke, unexpected medical needs not covered by insurance).
anonymous
Agree about the 401K. I would never stop contributing to that. The amount comes out automatically from my paycheck so I don’t even see it being deducted.
I thought the general rule for an emergency fund was 6 months worth of living expenses.
Anon
That’s correct. What DR recommends is at the very get-go, only pay the minimum on your debt until you save up $1,000 for an emergency fund. After that, go whole-hog into paying off your debt. Once the debt’s gone, then beef up the emergency fund some more (to 3-6 months worth of expenses).
The line of thought is that most emergencies are relatively small and just that small $1,000 cushion will take care of small crises without resorting to pulling out a credit card. If a person has to dip into their $1,000, then building it back up takes precedence over additional debt payments again until it’s topped up.
DR’s method isn’t my thing, but I have been fortunate in that I’ve never been in a place where such drastic measures were necessary.
anon
Like someone said above, I think the Dave Ramsey approach is aimed at people who have high-interest debt and are sitting on a pile of cash for 6 months’ living expenses. If you pay down the high-interest debt aggressively (foregoing all other savings), then you can rebuild your emergency fund and contribute to your 401K again relatively soon. In the (hopefully) short time between paying down the credit card debt and rebuilding your emergency fund, your credit card is available for absolute, true emergencies.
I don’t think his approach makes sense for large amounts of low-interest, strategic debt. If you have $150K of student loans below 6%, and a relatively high salary, your 401K is going to grow faster than your student loan interest, and that growth is tax free. Also, if that $150K is spread out over 4-5 separate loans, it might feel good to pay off the smaller loan first, but it’ll cost you thousands and thousands of dollars over time.
AnonInfinity
This is what I’ve always thought about DR as well– that his advice is more applicable to people who have high interest debt. This thread prompted me to go look at his website, and it does include student loans in the “pay off debt” category!
I’m not a huge DR follower, but I do generally structure my finances around avoiding debt (for example, I’ve started a savings fund to buy a car outright when mine dies so I won’t have a car loan). BUT the idea of forgoing retirement savings and having only $1k for emergencies while paying off huge amounts of student debt does not seem smart to me. I feel comfortable with less than 6 months of expenses in mine, but definitely need more than $1k for peace of mind.
With DR, just like with other financial gurus, I think the most important thing is to apply it in a way that makes sense for your life.
Anon
IMO, not contributing to your 401K is a step people should take when they’re up against bankruptcy and have tons of consumer or medical debt. I would never stop contributing to retirement for school and car loans, absent extenuating circumstances. Just buckle down and work on them. Don’t give up the tax advantage of a 401K unless it’s an emergency.
Anon
Having an emergency fund appropriate to your lifestyle is far more important than paying off debt super duper quickly. Because you know what happens if you lose your job and only have $1k to your name? EVEN MORE DEBT and possibly ruining your life! Ramsey has clearly never been actually poor or money scarce before.
I don’t like the idea of not contributing to 401k but it makes sense if you have debt that is like a monkey on your back – student loans and credit card debt namely, but only if it’s for a short while. If it’s going to take you four years to pay off loans even without contributing to your 401k it makes no sense to stop contributing. But for 6 months – sure. Catch up later.
Anon
I disagree, having been flat broke and making <$10/hr with no family backstop. $1,000 buys a lot of peace of mind in that situation. $1,000 can sort out a lot of small crises that would be blips in most of the readership of this blog's checking accounts, but are potentially ruinous for a large swath of the US population. If more folks had even that small of a cushion, payday loan operators would have a lot fewer customers, as would pawn shops and high interest credit, low balance credit cards.
It's also a goal that's achievable for people who don't make much money, whereas 3-6 months of expenses may well be a pipe dream and not even worth the heartache of trying for.
emeralds
Yeah, when I was making $21k a year in my first two jobs of out college, having savings of ~$1,500 made a HUGE difference when I had two big car-related expenses come right on top of each other.
I was always going to be fine–my family would have bailed me out of something truly catastrophic–but for someone who doesn’t have a safety net or savings, that can very quickly snowball from big car repair bill -> can’t pay it -> now I don’t have reliable transportation to get to work because our country has horrible transit infrastructure -> now I’m on a PIP at work because I can’t get there on time -> oops still can’t afford to fix my car -> now I’m fired.
Anon
Agree with all this. $1000 is a lot of money for most people and can help in a lot of emergencies. That amount of money is small potatoes for me at this point in my life but it’s significantly more than most Americans have in savings and would cover a lot of emergencies for the average person.
Anonymous
Like a lot of extreme diets, people who follow DR to a T often find themselves back in the hole at some point. They’ve deprived themselves of so much often and then when they’ve “made it” they tend to regress. A hybrid approach is really the best way to go IMO. I am a fan of the Financial Gym as they can help you figure out what is really important to you and make decisions that will get you to those goals. DR’s approach is based on a one-size-fits-all mentality and that isn’t effective for a lot of people. My goals may differ substantially from yours. (as an example: I have no interest in owning property but I do want to be able to travel all over the world). People get “cultish” around DR. Be supportive of your friends but maybe look for a better fit.
OP
Very interesting re people falling back into the hole after a period of time. I can totally see that happening. And “cultish” is exactly the vibe I’m getting from my friend!
Anon
Doesn’t Dave have a heavy religious slant? The only people I know who follow him are evangelical Christians.
Anon
Yeah, but I’ve heard people say they’ve followed his financial advice and ignored all the Jesus-y stuff.
Anonymous
Valentine’s Day rant. I’m so not here for men who refuse to celebrate because the holiday is a dumb made up commercialized way to get men to spend money and if you think otherwise then you’re materialistic. If that was truly the objection, then do something else that doesn’t require a big expense. Cook her favorite meal. Bake a cake. Dress up in your fanciest attire and dance in the living room. Do literally anything to show her you care. Also, can we talk about how low effort this is for men? Literally walk into any store and pick up something off the first display you see. Bam! You didn’t eff up Valentine’s Day! So much easier than say a birthday where you have to come up with an original thought. It actually takes more emotional effort to NOT do something for your SO today.
I think the issue really boils down to: 1) stubborn men don’t like being told what to do; 2) especially when they’re being told to do something nice for a woman; and 3) they dgaf about their SO who just wants a small acknowledgement. I’m single and my partnered friends are allllll complaining to me about how their male SOs don’t want to do anything. The women actually feel bad for expecting any little thing from their partner! What on earth is this?? Seriously whenever I wonder why I’m single I remember things like this. Why are men.
Anon
Agree. I’m not personally super into Valentine’s Day, but it’s very, very easy to show you care and if you don’t care about something that matters to your date or partner, why is that an excuse? Do it because she cares.
Anon
+1 I don’t care about Valentine’s day for all the reasons listed, but would put in time and effort if my partner did.
Anon
I agree but I do also think that the spirit of the holiday is that folks should show their SO they care, and that should go both ways between genders. In my observation it often doesn’t and there’s a significantly expectation on men to do things and be romantic (which is fine), but women more often tend to be on the receiving end and there’s less if any of an expectation on us. Not sure how generalizable this is but it’s something I’ve noticed and I get how that can be a bummer.
OP
Actually this is another one of my gripes about Valentine’s. A man’s role is spoon fed to him – chocolates, flowers, dinner, done. But women still bear the emotional labor of coming up with something nice and non-generic just like we do every other holiday. Which I think increases the imbalance – oh look you got me a box of chocolates while I got you that bottle of whiskey you loved from our last trip together.
Anon
I get my husband the same bottle of whiskey every year, which is an easy and generic gift. Nothing wrong with that!
Anonymous
Guys do not care if you get them the same thing every year. There’s lots of unnecessary emotional labor that women do because it’s imposed by other women. Teacher appreciation week and SAHMs in my kid’s school – I’m looking at you. The candy bar, lunch and cupcakes, and wall display were not necessary.
Why are you even talking about this? I can’t remember the last time I had a convo with girlfriends about what DH did or didn’t get me on any particular occasion.
anon
my husband loves getting flowers, and is way more into chocolates than me. It doesn’t have to be that complicated.
x
this is so cute.
emeralds
Yeah the bar for Valentine’s is…just about the lowest. Even my gifting-is-his-love-language husband gets me an orchid and a bottle of wine and calls it a day.
(I will say that it’s kind of nice to see the progression of my v-day orchids! I have one at work and two at home and um, killed the other one, but every time I look at them it’s a nice reminder of the years that we’ve been together.)
Anonymous
I agree. It’s fine if a man doesn’t want anything for valentine’s day. It’s also fine if you want to go to dinner but not go on the 14th due to crowds and a potentially crappy pre fixe menu. But if it’s important to your significant other, it should be of at lease some small importance to you, otherwise I sort of see it as disrespectful.
Angela
Exactly this. All the people commenting in this thread, “Well, *I* don’t care about Valentine’s Day, so it doesn’t matter to ME if he does anything!” Great for you. Slow clap. That’s not the situation OP is describing, she’s describing a situation where the women are being ignored and disappointed by their partners when it would take a minimal effort to make them happy with some kind of gesture.
Anonymous
Except OP presented it as women as a group care so much about VDay and are so thoughtful about it and men as a group are so lazy about it. Neither is true.
Cat
Frankly, I understand the desire to avoid V Day. My husband wants to celebrate it but I’m the one who doesn’t like it. Restaurants are packed but the food and service typically decrease in quality while the prices go the opposite direction. I don’t want chocolate or stuffed animals or heart shaped anything. I don’t want to be surprised with something expensive as we’re a ‘joint pot’ couple.
So — the key to any relationship — we talked about it. And agreed we would celebrate quietly — make a nice dinner at home and enjoy a nice bottle of wine, but no gifts, flowers, etc. We save more expensive activities and gifts for dates that are specific to us (anniversaries, etc).
If the men your friends are complaining about are unwilling to do ANYTHING just because it’s meaningful to their partner, that’s obnoxious.
Anon Probate Atty
Yes, I feel the EXACT same about the holiday, and husband is cooking dinner at home tonight per my request. He offered to make a reservation somewhere, which was nice, but I hate feeling like a sucker overpaying for a meal that isn’t up to par just because it’s a holiday.
On the other hand...
I just had this conversation with my niece yesterday who asked me what I’m doing with my SO for V Day. And I said “absolutely nothing.” I expect nothing, he expects nothing. He doesn’t show me he cares with some random flowers or card or gift. He shows me he cares by doing half the mental, emotional, physical labor around the house; by taking the kids for the night when I had a family emergency; when he pushes me to pursue things I’m scared or nervous about but ultimately the best thing for me (i.e., huge job change); when he knows the way we fight and communicate makes me frustrated, and he works to fix it (with me). Each person demonstrates love and effort differently – if you need effort on V Day, then communicate it to him, but don’t assume that everyone believes in the significance of V Day universally, because that’s not true. I don’t and I would be so mad if my SO got mad at me because I didn’t make an effort today.
LaurenB
I agree. We don’t celebrate V Day, because he shows me he cares by being a partner in household management, in playing an equal role in raising our children, and in small everyday acts of service (filling the car up with gas, mailing packages from his office to save me a trip, etc.). I’m fine with nothing more than “Happy Valentine’s Day, sweetie” / “you too, love you.” I’m trying to embrace more minimalism in my life and that includes not celebrating Hallmark holidays.
anonymous
I don’ t know…I don’t care about Valentine’s Day or acknowledging it. But I’ve also been married 20 years and we’ve had out share of issues so it just doesn’t feel like there is much to celebrate.
Anon
I think this is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t think for (some) men.
I know I would flip if my SO “did” something for Valentines Day – it would show that he doesn’t know me at all, even if I would have liked the same gesture on a different day.
This is our fourth VD together. Even so, SO gently asked if it was alright for him to go to a movie night with single friends tonight because he didn’t want me to think he had forgotten/wanted to give me the chance to change my mind.
Anon
“it would show that he doesn’t know me at all”
This is the whole point of OP’s comment, though.
Anonymous
If your friends are complaining about their husbands not stepping up on Vday, it’s likely they are not stepping up much of the rest of the year. I find that if partners are caring year round, VDay isn’t a big deal.
I’m not super into VDay – gave DH a bunch of his fav candy from CVS and he was more than happy. DH gave me a pastries from the local bakery and flowers with breakfast in bed. Zero dinner plans beyond heart shaped pancakes with the kids.
We have regular date nights and show are kindness every day. I don’t need a fancy gift on a Hallmark holiday, I appreciate him bringing me coffee in bed every morning way more.
Anon
I never ever want to go out to dinner on VD because of the crowds, so we just give each other candy. No flowers either, because they’re usually priced for high demand.
That said, I would not be terribly wounded if I didn’t get candy. I feel loved every day of the year and don’t need an extra gesture on this made up holiday.
Anon
Just to throw it out there, I also really dislike Valentines day, and I say that as someone who has been in a relationship most of my adult life so it’s not about not being coupled. I have my reasons. To your point, luckily my husband also doesn’t really care, and if he did maybe I *should* do something for him, but I could also see being annoyed by the idea that I should force it for something I really want no part of.
Anon
I totally agree with you.
Anonymous
You are 100% right, and I honestly never thought about it this way. My problem with Valentine’s Day is I don’t want my partner to be told to do these things, that really ruins the romance for me for some reason. I would rather these romantic gestures be on some random occasion.
NOLA
I mostly don’t care about Valentine’s Day and I don’t think that going out to dinner is romantic at all. I would just like a nice dinner that we cook at home and roses from the grocery store. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s going to happen because the flu has turned him into zombie.
Anonymous
I don’t really care if some people choose not to celebrate this holiday, but I do feel bad for women who would really like a nice dinner (not expensive of fancy, just nice) and some flowers, and their guys are refusing because “it’s a made-up holiday to make money!” If you and your partner are both against V-day stuff, then fine, that’s your business. If your partner would like to do something special, surely you can do a little something to make them happy.
I mean, at this point, you can argue that every holiday is over-commercialized and “made up” so big corporations can sell more stuff, does that mean we should just stop being festive? I don’t want to be insensitive to people who really just can’t get into the spirit of this or that holiday and resent people for trying to drag them into parties they really have no interest in, or asking why they’re not dressed up, or twisting their arm into silly work functions, but at a certain point, loving someone means indulging in their love of a holiday to make them happy, even if it’s just a little bit. If you can’t manage that, don’t date people who enjoy holidays you hate.
For me, this isn’t the only day we show love to each other, we do special things throughout the year, but Valentine’s Day is a fun excuse to splurge on that nice restaurant we’ve been talking about going to, going to that comedy show that’s been on our radar for a while, and it’s an opportunity for me to dress up and wear those sparkly red pumps I bought from WHBM in their post-holiday sale!
Anonymous
this! I like Valentine’s day, but not in a hardcore way (at least, I don’t think I’m hardcore). There was a sale on Cheryl’s cookie boxes with heart shaped cookies the other week, so I sent some of those to friends with kids to enjoy, and I sent my husband a cookie card that is (hopefully) arriving at his office today. Just like a little treat to brighten the day. For my husband and I, we enjoying searching for and finding funny or clever or meaningful cards to give each other, and it gives us an excuse to try a new restaurant (not on the 14th, but somewhere close to today) and to go and search for a new to us bottle of champagne to try. But it’s not the only day that we will get the other a small treat or go to dinner or get flowers or try a new champagne.
Angela
Puh-REACH!!! 100% agree with not letting men off the hook on this one. Most grocery stores literally have drive-through stands where you can get a bouquet of flowers without even getting out of your car. Not to mention you can order literally anything online these days — Amazon 2-day delivery for a box of chocolates, boom, you’re thoughtful. Nooooo excuse.
LaurenB
I guess I don’t need him to “be on the hook” to demonstrate that he loves me, because I know that everyday through his words and actions. He doesn’t need to prove it by some special effort just because it is February 14. He can prove it by being there for me in the truest sense of the word if I have a crisis, etc.
Anon
But if she wants him to acknowledge the day, he should do that. It’s part of treating your partner with respect. And I say that as someone who doesn’t care about Valentine’s Day at all.
Anon
You can have both (if you want). I would be pissed if V Day were important to me and my partner blew me off with “but I do so much around the house all year.” That’s great and all, but take the 30 seconds to pick out any card or box of chocolates, you know?
LaurenB
Fair enough.
Anonymous
Did y’all see the letter from MM LaFleur about reducing their plus line because it hasn’t sold well? I’m feeling ambivalent about it. On the one hand, we need more higher end work appropriate plus lines out there! But on the other hand I didn’t buy much from MM because the quality didn’t quite match up with the price. Thoughts?
Anon
Yes, got the email. When they first launched plus, I bought quite a few pieces from them, I’m in their +1 size generally. But, last year especially and this new collection I noticed everything I wanted did not come in plus. Even items that came in plus in general, like the jardigans weren’t released in the fun new colors like the red. I had good luck with their quality and wanted to continue to support them, but just feels like I need to find another brand. And let’s be honest, none of their social media ever gave the indication that they sold plus size. Compare theirs with loft and anthro expansions of size range. So, not sure why they are surprised they don’t have a lot of sales , when all the plus size is the same color palette, same sleeveless dresses, and sweater layers.
Anon
I didn’t see that but I’m sad to hear it. I ordered a lot from them in plus size. It’s so hard to find work clothing in plus sizes.
I agree with the other poster that it was kind of a bummer to see something you liked and then find the plus version was only available in black.
I also found their plus sizes to run small compared to other stores. I would never be a 3w at Macy’s for instance, usually a 1w, but often ordered a +3 from them.
Never too many shoes...
All of the above is true. If they just made all their current offerings in all the sizes, it would be so much easier.
Anon
I noticed that their sizing for bottoms/tops didn’t make a lot of sense – I was easily a 16 in bottoms, but XL tops pulled weirdly. +1 was OK, but a bit baggy. In other brands, I’m a size larger on the bottom than top. And I also felt that most of their nice shirts were never in plus sizes. But I agree with above – they never fully owned plus sizes, and I wish they just covered the range of sizes (including plus) for everything without a separate distinction or different choices.
Anonymous
No big loss. Poorly constructed garments made from inexpensive looking fabrics. Talbots, Boden and Hobbs all look better IRL.
Anonymous
Cute pick. Does Loft have the same fit as Ann Taylor?
anon
I find that Loft runs extremely large.
Anonymous
This has probably been discussed here before – what kind of account should I put down payment savings in? Just a regular savings account? I’m considering buying another house; I’m thinking about keeping the current house as a rental, but even if I sell it, I think I should be prepared to have a new dp anyway.
Anon
How long until you hope to buy? How risk averse are you?
For years I was saving to “eventually” buy a house in a VHCOL area. I had no number in mind, no specific plan, no timeline, etc. I kept those savings invested in the market consistent with my general retirement investment strategy (80% stock, 20% bonds in index funds). If the market had gone down, I would have had less money for my downpayment, but that was okay for me because I wasn’t ready to have substantial cash sitting earning pennies on the chance that I maybe bought a house someday.
OP
Good question – hoping to buy in 6 months to a year.
Anon
If you’re in a “maybe might buy some day soon” mode, keep it in index fund to grow. If you’re in a “I am looking and will buy in the next 3-6 months” an online savings account (check out Ally which at least kinda keeps up with inflation).
Anon
Yes, the timing is what’s critical. I’m about 2-3 years away from having my downpayment together so mine is sitting in a brokerage account at vanguard, invested in a mix of bond funds and money market. I get more return than I would in a regular savings account, but it’s still very unlikely that I will lose the money like in an stock index fund.
anon
Someone yesterday posted about the Vanguard money market funds. Forgive my ignorance – how is that different from a traditional savings account?
Otherwise the best rates I’ve seen lately are 1.7-1.8 for savings, unless you have $250K and are willing to deal with a little paperwork, Chase will give you $2000 as a bonus for keeping it there 6 months.
Ribena
Anyone else getting increasingly irritated with colleagues fearmongering about COVID-19 but also touching their faces, coughing into their hands, etc? Like, either be concerned about it or don’t.
Anon
My pet peeve is people who are panicking about coronavirus but didn’t get the flu shot. If you live in any country that isn’t China, you’re many, many times more likely to die of the flu. It’s like worrying about being struck by lightning but driving around all the time without a seatbelt.
Anon
Yep, this.
Anon
I’m irritated about COVID-19 fearmongering in general.
I’m perennially irritated about antivaxxers (including those who won’t get their flu shot).
Vicky Austin
The flu shot thing is endlessly irritating to me too.
Senior Attorney
Ooh… this is a good tack to take with people who dilly-dally about the flu shot: “What are you now, an antivaxxer?”
Ribena
Yes, this too.
(And anon at 9.54, yes, the new coronavirus. I’m using the new more specific term for various reasons including that it’s quicker to type! Trying to ignore it but as my father is in Japan for work just now it’s hard)
Anon
+100
Anonymous
Are you talking about coronavirus? Also just ignore it.
Anonymous
How are they fear mongering? Just discussing or something more? In my office people seem to just be putting flight bookings on hold — as in I’d be ok flying today but don’t want to book a vacation in 8 week and then cancel if they find huge spread on flights. Which doesn’t sound totally unreasonable.
Ribena
Making a big deal of preparing for an enforced work from home order, catastrophising, all that kind of stuff.
Anon
It may be unlikely that we’ll be hit this hard by this virus so far away from China, but what’s happening in China does sound legitimately catastrophic. I’m not sure that everyone is so much fearmongering as they are realizing how bad a pandemic can be.
Anon
Omg yes, and just general germaphobes who still do those things. Everybody in my office very performatively won’t touch the bathroom door handle on the way out, but most of them wash their hands for a few seconds max.
Anonymous
Then it’s best they won’t touch the door — let they carry their germs on their own hands and not leave them on doors.
Anon
It sounds like they have more of a reason to worry if those are their habits! It is probably harder than you think to just break those habits.
Anonymous
Ya’ll must not be on the West Coast. People in my neighborhood have family in Wuhan, are on quarantine from recent travel, etc. Two cases were treated in my county. Each day with no new cases announced is a blessing.
Anon
I’m in the Bay Area too, Santa Clara County in fact. I certainly feel bad for people who have friends and family in China, especially Wuhan, and no one on this thread said it isn’t scary for the Chinese. But I think it’s silly for Americans, even those of us in CA, to be panicking. The two people in the Bay Area who got sick had traveled to Wuhan. If you haven’t travel to China or had very close contact with someone who has, your risks of getting this are infinitesimally small. 14,000 people have died from the flu in the US this season alone – why is this scarier to you than flu?
no
places to look for interesting stair runners?
Flats Only
Not sure if you are in the DC area, but if you are, this place looks like it would be fun to sift through. search Herat Oriental Rugs Alexandria.
Anonymous
I just moved into a new apartment and the bathroom is very plain and kinda manly–white tile walls, black tile floor. I’d love to find a nice shower curtain with a modern pattern, possibly a little feminine, to liven up the room. I had been thinking some combination of black and grey and white, but would not be opposed to a pop of color. Any suggestions?
I like this one except I’m not crazy about the brown… https://www.cb2.com/crescent-blockprint-shower-curtain/s470340
Anon
I would lean into the minimalism and do white linens (shower curtain, towels), a modern graphic print on the wall, a plant for a pop of green, maybe sleek accessories in marble or gold.
Ribena
I’ve found great options at H&M Home if you have it in your area.
Formerly Lilly
Would you go bold? If so the Marimekko red Unikko shower curtain is on sale at their webs!te. You could also go neutral with the shower curtain and come in with some bold towels and accessories.
Anon
Maybe you want to go with something classically feminine. Look up toile. You should find lots of options in black/white toile. It is very traditional.
Mallory
The great thing about that color palette is that you can do almost anything! I’d go for adding color – I like this modern floral:
https://www.anthropologie.com/shop/agneta-shower-curtain?category=SEARCHRESULTS&color=095
Mallory
OR, you could lean into it and go graphic, but feminine. And look, butterflies!:
https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/sommarmalva-shower-curtain-white-dark-gray-20448075/
Anon
The first poster’s story made me decide to post my own.
Probably 10 years ago at an industry meeting in my city, a group of men from a well known firm did a presentation, and I ended up going for drinks with them after. The main guy of the firm seemed to mistake my friendliness for flirtiness and kept emailing me for a while afterwards, mainly suggesting I visit him in his city (seriously WTF) and once left me a voicemail saying he was sitting on the beach on vacation thinking of me (even bigger WTF) and wanted me to call him back before he left the beach. I did not. The contact fizzled out after that.
Now this man has discovered linked in. He sent me a note saying he saw my profile and hoped I was doing well. Stupidly, I replied “I’m well thanks. Nice to hear from you” because after all, he is in my industry. Unfortunately, he immediately wrote back saying he will be visiting my city and would like to see me.
I assume I should just ignore this and hope he goes away again. I am not really inclined to confront him because he could easily deny there was anything inappropriate here, in which case I would feel embarrassed.
I’m in an smallish industry and practically guaranteed to run into him once in a while.
And for anyone thinking I’m some hot young thing, I’m a chubby mom of teens in her mid fifties. He’s probably early sixties. YES, it never stops. Sorry.
Anonymous
oh god I am cringing on your behalf
Anon Probate Atty
Ew. No, don’t confront him, just keep ignoring him. No good will come from a direct confrontation unless he directly makes a move on you, and obviously you’re not planning to be alone with him anywhere, or sit next to him at a boozy dinner, so he won’t really get a chance to do that.
Angela
I think you could get away with ignoring it if you want, since LinkedIn messages are easy to overlook. Alternatively, you could agree to grab coffee midday or something, and make sure to cut it off by saying you have a meeting immediately afterward.
Anon
Honestly, based on his past behavior, I would not do this (meet up for coffee). He has a history of taking innocent behavior and making it gross. Also, he makes the OP uncomfortable & I think that alone means she should not be getting together with him.
I just read Catch & Kill & am so amped about it and how we shouldn’t be putting up with any uncomfortable or worse behavior anymore, so I may be projecting. :)
Anon
No, no way! This man makes her feel uncomfortable (rightly so; he sounds gross), she has no obligations to see him, why would she extend an invitation?
Anon
Don’t just ignore him, block him.
Anon
100% ignore. Would he call a man on a beach vacation to say he was thinking of him?
OP
At the time, I played the voicemail for a couple of my close office friends, a man and a woman, and asked them if it was weird.
My female friend said I should call him back and it was probably innocent.
My male friend said, “no way, he’s probably wanking it on the beach and wants you to talk him through it.”
Anon
YEP. Gross. I give you full permission to avoid this creep entirely.
Vicky Austin
JFC what is with that beach vacation deal? Pretty sure the only time I’ve ever heard that from anyone, it was from my boyfriend.
Senior Attorney
Ew… and further to “it never stops,” I’m 61 and a creepy 60something guy just PMd me a photo of a dozen roses on Facebook, presumably because it’s Valentine’s Day and Facebook memories has been showing him photos of our handful of dates about this time six years ago (as it has been showing them to me). Ugh. Stop.
Anonymous
Tbh if it were me I’d probably meet up and act 100% oblivious just to see what happens, but that’s because I can be a messy ***** who enjoys some drama time and again. This is bad advice.
OP
hahahaha I love that you ended your advice with “this is bad advice.” Please feel free to comment on my posts any time!!
Anonymous
Does anyone get irrationally in a bad mood when cleaning? I’m married to a guy who is very domestic. It is not a case of me getting mad because he’s not doing his fair share. We’ve lived together for 4 years and I have felt this way all 4 of those years. I get like really angry when doing housework. Probably comes from my mom always getting mad at my dad, who did NOT do his fair share when I was a kid, but IDK. It really doesn’t make sense to me.
Anonymous
I get angry while cleaning because cleaning forces me to focus on all the things that make me deeply, deeply resent our house. The windows need to be replaced. The kitchen and bathrooms are 30 years out of date and need a total reno. The closets are ridiculously tiny. We don’t have a real laundry room, only a pantry. The gas fireplace is ugly and doesn’t work. The walls and trim need painting. All of our furniture is ratty. Etc., etc., etc. Cleaning forces me to focus on all these details up close, and I spend the entire time fuming about the fact that we aren’t selling this dump and buying a nice house that isn’t falling apart and replacing all the furniture.
Anonymous
Closet, not pantry. Laundry closet.
Anon
Hasn’t happened to me, but my best friend has been texting about feeling “enraged” about routine cleaning in her house. She has higher standards than her husband, but is definitely getting much more worked up than I view as normal (like moving people’s water glasses to the dishwasher while they’re still drinking from them).
Anon
That is to say, I don’t think you’re alone but the reasons probably vary.
Anon
I do! But I have ADHD and find cleaning totally overwhelming. One minute I’m dusting a nightstand, the next minute I’m reorganizing my closet.
Anony
Yes, you are not alone.
Vicky Austin
Yep.
anon
Is there something specific about the cleaning that makes you angry or that makes cleaning particularly unpleasant? If so, address that.
Could you do anything to make cleaning more fun for yourself? Your favorite music, or a podcast or audiobook?
If you just don’t like cleaning, is your husband OK dividing the labor differently? You could be in charge of meals and laundry, and he could be in charge of dishes and cleaning, and that would seem reasonably fair to me. Everyone has something they don’t like doing.
Anonymous
Yes!
Anon
It doesn’t really sound like the same thing from your post, but that kind of irrational anger is a big sign of depression for me.
Anonymous
Yes! I do and for no good reason haha. I don’t have a really good solution except hire out or lower your standards. I decided that I will deep clean downstairs one week and upstairs the next week instead of both every week. Bathrooms and kitchen get cleaned every week or more (counters get wiped down daily). It helps me to break it up too because spending hours cleaning the house every week was making me so angry haha. My husband helps a ton but also works more hours than I do and so sometimes is just not home enough and if he is home I am the one who doesn’t want to spend our time together cleaning.
Anonymous
What was the first vacation you took solo because you wanted to go but had no one to go with? Age/place? Did you feel bad because you had no one to go with?
I really need to get away as I’m so unhappy with daily life and feel a break may help, yet I find that I can’t make myself go away for like 2 days to Fla because I keep thinking it’s so sad to go alone. Yet if I want to go anywhere it’s going to be alone — unattached, no real close friends, my tons of friendly acquaintances are all married with elementary age kids so they travel with their families.
Yet surprisingly I have no problem when I get a day alone on business trips, traveling someplace for a wedding etc. I end up exploring and having a great time. Yet in my own head, when you have a reason to be someplace like work or wedding, that’s one thing. When you simply have no one who will go on a trip with you, that’s sad and is it even worth going?? Talk me out of this . . . Tell me about your adventures.
Anon
DO IT! My best vacations have been alone. You get to do exactly what you want on your time table. And it’s a lot easier to make friends as you travel if you book hotels known for having a social bar or that hosts tours – I still keep in contact with people I met on walking tours.
My first solo vacay: New York – 22 (crashed with various acquaintances and toured the city alone)
Other solo vacays: Iceland, London, L.A., San Diego, Central Mexico
Having a rough itenerary helps a lot with the “I’m alone” feeling, as well as realizing how bad*ss you are for having fun with your own company in a foreign place.
Anon
It’s not sad to go alone. Lots of people, myself included, travel solo. It’s really not a big deal.
Anon
Check out the blog The Happy Talent. The author has gone on tons of solo vacations and posts about her adventures fairly frequently. I’ve recommended her blog here before for the posts on developing self-confidence and charisma, but the vacation ones are more enjoyable/fun.
Senior Attorney
Thanks for recommending that blog. She’s really great!
Anon
So glad you liked it! Some of her posts literally changed the way I think about myself.
Ribena
I went on a few writing retreats/ courses by myself, but the first true vacation/travel type trip I did was to Vienna 18 months or so ago – I was 24. I did schedule coffee and cake with a uni friend who lives there but otherwise I just explored by myself. I booked a single room in a hostel and drank in the hostel bar each night so I was able to aimlessly chat to other travellers.
Anonymous
I’m exactly like you — no trouble extending a business trip for a few days and exploring by myself. But hard to plan a trip somewhere all alone. yet I did it twice last year. Once, a weekend to a city I enjoy, and then a longer stay in a new place.
I think you just need to accept the fact that it’s not going to be the kind of trip you WISH you could take — or even that other women here are going to describe, if they say “I love traveling alone! I have no problem with it! I think it’s great!” You (and I) don’t love it. We do have a problem with it. We don’t think it’s great.
Yet I find that if I do it even so, it’s still . . . good. And I need to spend the money to get out of town. I need the refreshment. I’ve never regretted it. Do I still wish I had fun people to travel with and feel wistful when my married friends describe their couples and friends vacations that they all planned together? Sure. Do I get sad at the thought that I don’t have these kinds of friendships? yes. And that the friends I do have are going to be traveling with the families or other couples? Yes. So I just accept that it won’t feel as good as I’d like it to feel, but it still feels better than staying home.
Bottom line to reframe it for you from “so sad to go alone.” It’s a “little sad” to go alone, but it’s “so sad” to stay home alone and not go anywhere at all. And I’d rather have a “little sad” along with some refreshment and fun than “so sad” and no refreshment or fun at all.
Davis
You’re going to love it! Go for it.
I took my first solo vacation at 16. Really it was that I was in high school and my family was doing a beach vacation, but with my high school schedule (my sibs were in college and this was their spring break), I could only come the weekend before everyone arrived. I had a little beach cottage to myself to relax, sunbathe, read and eat what I wanted. Totally awesome! Since then, I’ve gone abroad by myself and enjoyed the independence.
Even if you find out that this isn’t your preferred way to travel, you can consider what you’d rather do the next time. If you need a break from your daily life, this couple days sounds like a beautiful experiment.
Anonymous
For my first trip alone, I went on an organized outdoor trip (think Backcountry, REI). Hiked all over mountains. Had a blast. It was two other couples and two single females.
It is so hard to find friends with the same time, budget and interests to vacation together once everyone starts working.
Anon
I went to Paris at age 34. It was actually really fun. I got to go to exhibits that my family and some friends wouldn’t have been interested in, I got to meet other solo diners and have interesting convos with them that I wouldn’t otherwise have if I were part of a group, I got to do things on my schedule – no compromises. My advice would be to take a short trip (long weekend?) so that you won’t even have the time to feel lonely because it’ll be over in a flash. It’ll also help if you’re already familiar with this place and feel more at home navigating it. I have a few places like that where I wouldn’t mind going back to by myself.
Anon
I never did and now I can’t because I have very young kids. I hope to when my kids are older, but I really wish I’d done this pre-kid. Go! The worst that will happen is you won’t have a good time and then you know and never have to do it again. But I bet you’ll have a great time.
Anon
I love to travel alone. LOVE IT. I love to wake up when I want, go where I want for however long I want, eat and drink whatever I want whenever I want. I actually get a lot of anxiety traveling with others and constantly thinking if everyone is having a good time, do they actually do what I want to do or are they just saying that to keep the peace, are they uncomfortable with how much we’re spending, on and on and on. It’s also SO MUCH EASIER to book shows and restaurant reservations and all kinds of things for one person and again – you don’t have to worry about catering to what anyone else wants.
I’m married and do girls trips a couple of times a year, but one of my absolute favorite vacations last year was going to Chicago by myself for a weekend while my husband was at a bachelor party. Stayed in a fancy hotel (on points), went to AMAZING restaurants (or ordered in and ate in my robe), took long baths, went to the spa, saw a couple shows, walked around and browsed stores for as long or as little as I wanted. It was the most relaxing and recharging thing I’ve done in a long time.
LaurenB
There’s nothing remotely sad about a solo vacation. I was fortunate in that my career enabled me to go to fabulous places in Europe, Asia and South America, and I was easily able to stay the weekend or plan a train trip to a nearby city. Some of those days spent bumming around Rome or Paris or Brussels or Tokyo by myself are some of the most cherished moments of my life. Why do you think it’s sad? My own company is enough for me.
CountC
I actually can’t remember the last time I traveled WITH someone! I love love love traveling alone. I have gone to several National Parks, spots along the east coast, Bermuda, Nova Scotia, and this year am trying to get to Croatia. I don’t find it sad at all and almost all of my partnered friends, even though they love their partners (and kids) and have good relatioships, have commented on how they are jealous that I get time alone to do whatever I want, wherever I want.
Anonymous
This sounds amazing. Traveling with my family is so stressful–I wish I could travel alone! If you are feeling uncertain, you could create a “reason” to travel by booking activities in advance: theater or concert tickets, a tour, spa treatments, yoga classes, etc.
Formerly Lilly
29 YO, New York City. I ended up visiting every other year for a decade and a half, with all trips but one by myself. I greatly preferred it by myself as it was the ultimate selfish vacation to a really interesting place. Get up and go to bed as I please. See and do what I want, when I want, for as long or short of time as I want – museums, galleries, lectures, concerts, parks, and just plain old sightseeing. Contrary to some visitor reports, everyone was very nice to me and seemed to give extra attention because I was alone. I had booked Marrakech by myself, but met DH while it was pending and he went with me. I would admit that that location was probably a better idea with a companion, but it certainly would have been doable and interesting on my own. From experience, I have found that for me, a week at the beach by myself gets a bit lonely, but four days at the beach by myself is heaven. Think about what you like and interests you, pick an location, and go for it!
SC
DO IT! When I was 19, I was getting over a bad breakup and miserable. I found $300 tickets to London and backpacked for two weeks. I went to London, Bath, Paris, Annecy, and Brugges. It was amazing because I could do exactly what I wanted whenever I wanted. I didn’t have to consider anyone else’s feelings or food preferences.
I still love traveling alone. I don’t find it sad at all. Even when my husband and I travel together now, we split up sometimes. Basically, I leave him in the room to sleep, and I walk around the neighborhood, find a great coffee shop or a wine bar (depending on time of day), pop into a church or small museum, etc. Also, traveling with other people can be annoying.
As someone mentioned above, it’s often easier to get into things as a party of 1. I had a business trip to NYC in January of 2016 and was able to get a single ticket to Hamilton (original cast) for $150.
Anonymous
I did 10 days in Iceland at 32. I felt a little self conscious at first but really no one cares. If anything, I got a lot of, “Ohhhh I’m so jealous I wish I’d done that!”
Anon
Started traveling alone in college and still going strong in my late 30s, at 50+ countries and counting. While I do sometimes get wistful over married friends telling stories of their “together” trips, I honestly think I have more fun and adventure. Sometimes I deliberately schedule introvert trips when I want to explore a place alone, and other times I choose hotels (and even hostels! just look for the ones catering to an age-appropriate crowd) and activities that allow me to meet others. I can afford boutique hotels but when I want a social trip I have no problem packing a backpack and staying in a (nice!) hostel.
If you’re really having trouble getting past the mental block of going to Florida (or Paris or London or wherever) alone, one thought would be to schedule a trip that you couldn’t do on your own and then go with a tour group like Intrepid or GAdventures. Do a bike trip through Vietnam or go trekking in Peru. Choose a specialty itinerary like a foodie tour or a tour that covers enough ground in a short time that you wouldn’t be able to manage the logistics on your own. Then you’re “forced” to go with other people and have a built in social group. And if you don’t want to do an entire itinerary with a tour group, schedule the trip around a few social activities, like day tours or cooking classes or other group-based activities that you can look forward to.
This might out me, but I just spent a long weekend in Mexico City and stayed at Casa Pancha, a gorgeous design hostel catering to a slightly older set. I had people to explore with every day and hang out with at night, took a yoga class at the hostel. I never felt like I was alone.
Anonymous
I did in college and in my 20s. No regrets at all!
Anon
I’ve done it multiple times in my life. It’s not sad to go alone and I guarantee you nobody will notice you if you go to a restaurant or movie or museum alone.
Lise
In college, and I had an amazing time and have loved traveling alone ever since. No compromise on activities and restaurants! No need to drag myself out of bed any earlier than I want or be slowed down starting the day because someone else is tired! I’m pretty introverted in my every day life, but for some reason much more outgoing on solo trips, and I’ve made situational buddies plenty of times (on tours, at bars, whatever) when I wanted some company, too. My first trip alone was to London, and since then I’ve been all over Europe by myself, and always had a wonderful time.
Anon
Do it. I have been spending some alone time visiting European cities for long weekends, in between business trips. So 4-6 days by myself doing whatever the f I want to do. I have a husband and kids and they’re 100% supportive.
cbackson
Adding to the chorus of love for solo traveling. I moved to a foreign country solo for work when I was 23 and spent two years there. My first big solo trip was a vacation from there to Colombia for a weekend; I also spent a month in Chile and a week in Costa Rica. That was just the start of many happy years of solo adventures – in fact, for most of my life, I’ve hardly traveled with other people aside from the occasional girls weekend.
Specific to your situation, three years ago I spent a long weekend in Delray Beach solo and had a great, relaxing time. Do it! There’s nothing more indulgent than spending a weekend getaway doing EXACTLY what you want, and I recommend it to everyone, including my coupled-up friends.
Anonymous
I’m married and have two kids and I’m planning a solo trip for myself at the end of this year. Because I just really want to enjoy traveling by myself, not on someone else’s time frame, and without visiting the things they want to see. I think it will be really fun, and I think you should travel on your own too! Good luck!
Anonymous
DO IT. I’m 27. My first solo trip was just for 3 days to the Washington coast (I live in Seattle) when I was 24. I loved it. I LOVED not having to ask anyone what they wanted to do, waking up when I want, eating what I want, and spending as much time as I wanted just laying around reading. I did that one more time about 18 months later, and then this past summer I took a 2 week trip to Europe. I met a friend for 3 days, but the other 11 days were totally on my own. It was phenomenal. I got a little bit lonely on days 12-13, but that was largely because I was over-tired and overwhelmed, not because I didn’t like traveling alone. I traveled to Iceland for four days over MLK Day, which was also amazing. Traveling alone means you can pretty much do whatever you want- there’s always a single seat on a tour, a museum ticket, a table or bar seat at a nice restaurant, etc.
DLC
I went to Italy for three weeks by self when I was 24- two weeks of it I enrolled in a language course, the third week I travelled by myself. It was great and so empowering. What if you planned a trip with an event/ activity in mind? Like a class you want to take, or a festival you want to attend? Then you have some built in activities to get you out of the hotel and might meet some people too.
Nonprofit-ette
I just went on my first totally solo trip (to Santa Fe) and it was amazing. I will be planning a periodic solo trip from now on. I was feeling in a bit of a funk at the time and it was the mental break I needed to start feeling like myself again.
On a solo trip, you can do whatever you want to do without worrying about the opinions of others. It’s incredibly freeing. Want to spend two hours at a museum? You can! When traveling with others I’ve found there always seems to be a difference in how long each of you wants to spend lounging, staying at a certain museum, etc.
Anonymous
There are tour groups for solo travellers to travel together, I think one is called Go Ahead Tours. No reason to feel weird about being solo when everyone else is too!
Anon
I went to Chicago at 23. I was nervous at first but met a bunch of fellow solo travellers my age over the free walking tour hosted by the hostel I was staying in. I had a fantastic time, and the tours hosted by the hostels were a great way to meet people and doing things together that I was uncomfortable doing myself (i.e., going out at 10 pm to a blues bar and staying out until 1 am).
Since then, I’ve been to NYC, Paris, Tokyo, Fukuoka, Hong Kong, Singapore, Vientiane, Luang Prabang, Bangkok, Prague, Vienna, Munich, Berlin, Salzburg, Stuttgart, Strasbourg, Tours, Barcelona, Amsterdam, Bruges, Antwerp, Rotterdam, Porto, Lisbon, Sevilla, Granada, Helsinki, Seoul, Busan, Madrid, Malaga, and many other places solo. I never felt sorry for myself and always have a great time!
Anonymous
If you’re not happy with one part of your life (career), is it normal for you to stop caring about most other things. Not because you are working sooo hard to fix your career (I’m not) but because you are just like — shrug/what’s the point/does it even matter/who cares — to everything whether we’re talking relationships or travel or news or whatever.
This has been going on for a few years yet it has just occurred to me over months that I’m doing this — kind of “checking out” because I haven’t been happy (or been able to change) my job situation for years. Yet objectively I know my job isn’t the best but also isn’t THAT bad, there are other things in life etc. Any one else feel this?
Anonymous
It sounds like you’re describing something on the continuum from resignation to giving up, learned helplessness, victim thinking, burnout, or depression. You can change how you think about all this, but since you’ve fallen into the habit of thinking and responding this way, you may need someone outside your own thought patterns to help you (therapist, very wise friend, life coach, etc.) The more intense all this is, the more likely you’ll need a therapist to help you establish new ways of thinking.
anon
agree. I’ve just come out of a time of being deeply dissatisfied with work and focused a lot on home, family, volunteering to cope. Those things really helped me through. It sounds like nothing brings you joy, but it doesn’t have to be this way.
Only slightly related, I just read Option B by Sheryl Sandberg, which is technically about resilience and finding back into life after her husband’s death, but I found it helpful for reflecting more generally on resilience and recovering from tough times. I recommend.
Anonymous
Totally. I feel like such a loser at work that it spills over to the rest of my life.
Anon Probate Atty
Sounds like depression. Book an appointment with a therapist and talk to your dr. about antidepressants. Many of us have been there. It will get better.
anon
Hi all, I posted yesterday afternoon but hoping for a few more responses this am. I have a screening interview for an in house position doing labor and employment (including some litigation). My background is strictly litigation and I have only dabbled in employment law during the past year. I got the interview primarily through a personal connection + the strength of my academic/professional credentials, so I know this is a long shot, but the company has an amazing reputation in my city and my friend who works there loves it. I was just curious if anyone else has been able to successfully pivot fields in this manner and if so, how did you sell your prior experience without having a strong substantive knowledge base in the area itself? Thank you!
Peanut
Has anyone ever ordered from Imperfect Produce? That’s the first one I heard about – it’s also known as Imperfect Foods. I’m in Seattle if that matters.
anonchicago
I use it and like it. Prices are better than the local grocery store, and it cuts down on my shopping trips while reducing food waste. Only problem is you really need to customize your box and look at what it pre-selects; the first week I got kale and bell peppers and a bunch of other stuff I had no plans to eat.
anon
I’ve been using them in the Bay Area for 2 years, and I am less and less satisfied. The produce typically isn’t misshapen or weirdly sized, just surplus production, but in my area, the quality of the produce has gone down quite noticeably. This may be a function of my local warehouse, but I often get an item in my box that is damaged or half-bad. A few times I emailed them about it and they always apologize and credit the money, but it’s annoying. Their prices are maybe competitive, but not lower than the supermarkets I have access to. They offer a pretty wide range of other grocery products too, which comes in handy. At this point, I still use them most weeks, because it’s convenient and saves me a shopping trip.
I used to think that one upside is that they treat their employees well (on brand with the whole social-justice image), but employee reviews online make me doubt that.
Anon
This was my experience in Seattle and I stopped using them about six months ago. They just sent me an email saying they’ve renewed their focus on food quality. I might give them another shot to see if it’s true. It was such a PITA to find bags to put the veggies in (because otherwise they do go bad or dry out very quickly) that I was happy to switch to Amazon Fresh where the (good quality) produce is delivered bagged. Maybe there is a more environmentally friendly was of doing this – please share.
Makeup in DC
I’m speaking at an event in DC this month and just learned there will be significant media. I’m thinking of getting professional makeup done just so I have one less thing to worry about (I’m anxious enough about the substance of my remarks!). Wondering if any local folks can recommend an artist who could come to my hotel, or alternatively a makeup counter where I can pay a fee for service (as opposed to buying products I won’t use)? TIA!
Anonymous
Does your hotel have a spa/beauty salon? I’d start there.
Carrots
I’ve been seeing a bunch of social media posts about Glamsquad and I think they have services in DC. I haven’t used them personally, but they may be what you’re looking for.
Anonymous
Claire Ashley is a DC area makeup artist who is lovely. She did my makeup for my wedding but has done friends for other various events, photo shoots, etc — cannot recommend her enough!
Anonymous
What are your favorite healthy ways to chase dopamine? I recently realized that when I drink, read romance books, online shop I feel a happy tingle of anticipation…
anon
singing in the shower or in my car.
anon
Exercise, yoga, making and viewing art. To a reasonable extent, food (e.g., really good sushi, a small amount of a new cheese, not “entire bag of chips” although that happens sometimes). Listen to new music.
Anonymous
Walks in nature, wandering a museum, playing with kittens.