Coffee Break: Vintage Book iDock

Vintage Book iDockThis is the kind of thing that I think of as being classic Anthropologie — take a stack of seemingly antique books and turn it into an iDock. It’s also the kind of thing that I think would lend a great bit of personality, warmth and function to your office (check out some other ideas here for how to personalize your office). The dock is $68-$90 (available to charge both iPhones and iPads) and is available exclusively online. Vintage Book iDock



  1. A Nonny Moose :

    I was going to post that this is a total rip off of an Etsy artist I’ve been admiring but it seems like he is actually designing these for anthro. If you want to buy direct:

    • A Nonny Moose, that is impressive shopping depth! Thanks for the link.

    • I am sorry but these are so exorbitantly priced I am amazed anybody would pay for this. You could easily make this in an afternoon with a Dremel, so books from Salvation Army and some crazy glue. Even if you have to buy a Dremel, all of the supplies still wouldn’t come out to $65!

    • It says it’s by Rich Neely designs; maybe he is branching out from etsy?

  2. In light of today’s coffee break post, has anyone seen really cute office accessories? I’m thinking things like pencil holders/paper trays/book ends? Anything that is functional but would add some personality?

    • I really like the Poppin line.

    • When I was decorating my office I couldn’t find any that I liked. I finally found a mosaic soap pedastal toothbrush holder, and glass from Home Goods that I used to hold my pens, paper clips, and whatnot. They are cute and you can’t even tell they are bathroom accessories. Obviously you would have to find a style that does not look like bathroom accessories, but there were quite a few I found that would work.

  3. (Grand)parent help :

    I’m expecting our first baby in the next month. We definitely would like my dad to visit at some point in the first few months, both to see his new grandson and to help out a bit. We’ve all talked about this and thought we were all fine. After a recent call with my dad, I realized that what he imagined was that we’d call him when we were headed to the hospital and he’d immediately jump in his car and arrive here just as the baby’s being born (he lives about a 5 hr drive away). This is NOT what I’d imagined AT ALL. My parents were divorced when I was barely four and I grew up on the opposite coast from my dad. He remarried quickly and seemed to have a pretty good life with my stepmother and stepsisters. I saw him for maybe a one week visit each year and talked to him for about ten minutes or less about three times a year. Once I was older, I saw him even less (I think there were 2-3 years when I didn’t see him at all) and still only talked to him maybe 3-4 times a year. He now lives a lot closer, my stepmother died a couple of years ago, and he has a strained relationship with one of his stepdaughters. He’s therefore decided to spend a lot more time talking to/seeing me. He’s already been to visit our house about four times this year and we went up to visit once. Our relationship is friendly but not at all close. During this phone call he also said he wanted to come visit again before the baby is born. I tried to put him off with all the nice things you say — like “oh, we’re so busy getting ready for the baby, we won’t have any time to visit” or “the guest room is full of baby things and we have no place for you to stay.” He responded to every one of these things with “I don’t mind if you’re busy. Even if we just visit over dinner, that’s fine” or “I already found a great hotel just around the corner from your house.” I realize part of being a new parent is setting boundaries, but now that I actually have to do it, it seems impossible without hurting his feelings. The problem is that he’s always envisioned us as having this loving father/daughter relationship that never existed (not even when I was little — the reason my mother left him was that he would go out partying and drinking instead of being home to help take care of me and be a real dad and husband). On the one hand, it’s just so presumptuous of him to invite himself to my house at such a crazy time. I tend to think everyone, including grandparents, should assume they’re not welcome at the house in the first couple of months unless the parents say otherwise — that is, you never, never invite yourself to a house with a newborn. On the other, I know he’s really lonely and isolated so I feel bad telling him I don’t want to see him. How do I handle this?

    • You know him best, but would he be receptive to something like:

      “Dad, I really appreciate that you want to be there for the early days. I (or DH) will let you know as soon as we are up to receiving visitors. But I am not up for visitors in this time before the baby is born, and we’re going to want the first little bit of time to find the rhythm of our new family. I will be so excited for you to meet GrandBaby once we find our footing. I really appreciate you respecting that timeframe.”

      Is there a task or something constructive you can give him to do that doesn’t involve him being there? Setting up some dinner delivery? Let him do some of the calling to let people know about the birth? Ordering something/building something/shopping for something? Something to make him feel useful and connected, even if he isn’t physically there.

      • I think this is the perfect advice. Instead of making the excuses about external things, you just have to suck it up and say it is that you are not up for any visitors at all right now or immediately after. Otherwise he is trying to be helpful by proposing solutions to ‘get around’ the obstacles, but he can’t get around your feelings.

        This is how you set boundaries, and I know you’re worried about hurting his feelings, but it’s 90% about the tone. You are saying it calmly and pleasantly and immediately redirecting to how you will let him know as soon as you are up for it and you are so excited to [all the things he can do when he does come]. Some new parents really like a lot of people around, some don’t. You are one who wants your private space and that is OKAY You don’t need to apologize for it or feel guilty.

        Good luck and CONGRATS!!

    • I’m going to reply with something you didn’t actually ask for so apologies and feel free to disregard.
      BUT – just because you didn’t/don’t have a close relationship to your dad doesn’t mean your son can’t have a close relationship with him. My dad was estranged from his father, and I very much regret the fact that this resulted in me not really knowing my grandfather. I wish my dad could have seen past his own relationship with my grandfather but alas, my grandfather died when I was 6 or 7 and none of it was to be. Even now, at 33, I get a little envious of people’s grandpas – it feels silly but it seems like such a unique relationship, special in a way that I will never know (my mom’s dad died when she was young, so no grandpas for me all around).

      Anyway, it sounds like your dad is willing to come to you on any terms you set forth (stay at a hotel, don’t require any attention, etc.), I’d give him a change to be a better (grand)parent this time around. If not for him, then for your baby’s sake.

      • I tend to agree–provided he is willing to stay in a hotel, etc. I probably would be willing to have a least a meal with him (either he or your husband can pick up take out). I had a similarly strained relationship with my father, but he has turned out to be an excellent grandfather (something about being older, and it being a relationship that required less responsibility I think than being a husband or father….) He has been the first to visit me all three times in the hospital after I had my children. He always came the next morning, with our favorite breakfast. Then he usually would visit a couple days after we got home for a short visit–20 mins or so, with a treat for the older kids.

        • (Grand)parent help :

          Oh, we definitely want him to be around as grandpa to the little one. I actually think he’ll be a terrific grandpa (especially since he’s more responsible these days than he was 32 years ago). He’s very easy going and I think will really enjoy playing with the little guy. This is really about me, to be perfectly honest. Getting the house ready, spending a few last days and evenings with DH as just a two-person family, and all the post-partum, bf-ing, exhausted, etc. is just something I don’t want to share with him. Also, it just galls me that he thinks he gets to be here when the baby is born when even my mom won’t be here yet. I think it’s his presumption that’s getting to me (and it’s not just this situation — as I said, he has this whole imaginary world where he’s the best dad ever and I’m a loving daddy’s girl).

          • Anne Shirley :

            I’m not actually getting a sense of him being presumptuous. It sounded from your first post like you two had discussed him visiting, you with the unspoken assumption that would be after a month, him with the unspoken assumption that would be immediately. And then he discussed his plan with you, and you didn’t tell him he was mistaken.

            I think it’s completely fine to not want visits right away, but it’s also pretty normal for grandparents to want to come right away. It doesn’t need to change your response to him at all, but I think you’re being a bit hard on him.

          • I think it’s perfectly find to tell your dad most of that :) You want to savor these last few days with just you and DH, but that are really excited to have Dad be in Baby’s life. And you know he’s excited to, but you want the time.

            If you think you might be able to handle Dad coming shortly after the birth, staying in a hotel, and having some short visits, with the idea of a longer visit a few months down the road, tell him that too. I think that’s a reasonable request even if you had the bestest relationship ever with your Dad. It’s a huge change in your life and it’s fair to not want to have all those shaky first steps in front of other people.

            Is this his first grandkid? It could be he’s presuming because he thinks this is what grandparents are supposed to do (or not, who knows),.

          • Very touching :

            I think the earlier posters gave good advice about giving him ways to contribute to the baby prep without actually visiting.

            Sounds like you also need some commiseration on the “Um…seriously?!” front, so here it is. You are 100% justified and totally not alone in those feelings. I don’t have the exact same situation, but I definitely know the feeling.

            While it’s nice (in theory) that my dad is trying to have a relationship with me, I am always in the worst mood in the days leading up to one of our dinners. He spends an unfortunate amount of time during them trying to tell me about the ways of the world, yet he’s never once asked what my college major was or what’s going on in my life now. It’s getting a little better, but I completely understand being pissed off about your absentee dad’s presumptions about your relationship.

            Also…this is getting a little deep… For me, a big part of it is that he’s never actually said that he’s sorry or even acknowledged that he should have done things differently. I think I’d be able to just roll my eyes at the assumptions if I ever got even a tiny apology, but without that, they really tear at the old wounds. I was going to say that they make it seem like he’s not acknowledging things and not sorry and blah blah blah, but those are only the beginning. If you want to have that big talk with him, you have all of my support, but I’m definitely not going to push you toward it because I’m also doing a very fine job of avoiding it in my life.

            The whole point of this was just to say that I get it, and you’re totally justified for being in a foul mood about it and all the better for then putting a smile on your face and trying to make a relationship with him anyway.

          • Want to pile on to say the my dad, my stepdad, and my father-in-law all turned out to be better granddads than dads and I am so happy that my son has them all. Even if I think two are jerks!

        • Very touching :

          These two posts just brought tears to my eyes. Even if the advice doesn’t work for the original poster (though I hope it does), it really means something to me.

          My relationship with my dad has waffled between strained and nonexistent since I was very small due to his absence from my life and his behavior when present. As I enter my mid-20s, I find myself thinking more and more about my aging relatives, and I worry about the future of our relationship. Truthfully, I already have a lot of bitterness about the prospect of caring for him as he ages even though that’s probably at least a decade or two away (he’s in relatively good health and not even 60 yet, but we don’t have much longevity in our family).

          I’m not planning to have kids any time soon, but the idea that he might be a good grandfather despite being a crappy father has given me a lot of hope about our relationship. Thank you.

    • I would vote for something like Mpls’ quote.

      My advice is based on projecting a bit from my own experience, so take it with a grain of salt! I don’t have quite the same history you have with your dad, but I’ve had to draw similar boundaries with my dad. He and my mom divorced when I was little and he was a very present father, but I am his only relative and he can be quite needy/judgmental and is a horrible, horrible houseguest. To the point where to preserve my sanity and our relationship, I have to adhere to very strict (private, self-imposed) guidelines as to how long I can spend with him at a time, and under what circumstances.

      I have found that it is best to be honest, because while giving white lie excuses can work in one-off situations, they don’t work with family members who will make the same assumptions/demands constantly down the road. And in my experience, actually giving the honest answer is never as bad as I build it up to be in my head.

      I don’t know if you are feeling this way at all, but I don’t think you should feel guilty about having him visit after the baby is born. It doesn’t sound like you are going to prevent a relationship between your kid and your dad. This is a stressful, busy time for you, and IMO you are absolutely entitled to ensure you are not overly stressed about this.

      And one last thing–this may not apply to your situation at all. But it sounds like your dad may be like my dad, in that he doesn’t have a lot of other close people in his life and would like you to fill the role of *the* main person in his life. Remember, even if you never draw any boundaries whatsoever, you (and your family) may not on your own be able to fill all his emotional needs. And you may drive yourself crazy trying to do it. I have discovered this the hard way. So don’t worry about drawing boundaries.

    • Anonymous :

      I have a very similar issue, but I am much closer to my parents. I am due any day now and they are insisting on coming and insisting on staying with me (in our way too small for them place). I don’t know how (or didn’t know) how to say no. I am so stressed about them coming and being underfoot and annoying that I can’t even stress about labor and baby.

      I hate that I can’t tell my parents “no.” I hate that they don’t have any boundaries with me. I hate that I am in this situation because I failed to speak up. Its very frustrating and I know the blame lies with me. I am afraid of hurting their feelings and causing drama. I have told myself that I must be willing to kick them out and make them get a hotel room if its too much. For my own sake, for my husband’s sake and for the sake of our relationship.

      • I have never had a baby so take this with a grain of salt . . . I really, really, really think that for your own sanity and for your husband and relationship’s sake you need to tell your parents NOW that they need to stay in a hotel when they come to see you. I think it will be beneficial for all involved for you to do it before the baby comes. The script above can be modified and used for your situation as well. You have to take care of yourself first. If your parents love you they will get over it, even if their feelings are hurt initially.

        • I have to respectfully disagree with the countc — and frankly, i dont know how you can “think it will be beneficial for all involved” when you cannot possibly know these internet strangers. sure, its important to take care of yourself first, but there are so, so many other ways to do that. and that idea that “if your parents love you, they will get over it” is just BS. Some parents might get over it (though probably only the parents who one would not be afraid to tell in the first place)

        • +1 to CountC.

      • hoola hoopa :

        I have two pieces of semi-contradictory advice, both heavily influenced by my own relationship with my parents (who are emotionally needy) and my ILs (who also need more space than our house can provide) and my experience immediately after the birth of my children. YMMV.

        Tell them nicely but clearly that the idea of having them staying at your house is stressing you out. It sounds like your parents are the kind who would care and want to make you comfortable. Focus on how it is making you feel rather than passing it off as situational (we don’t have a guest room… etc), because they’ll understandably try to fix it instead of doing what you really want. Tell them that you don’t want to keep them away, but that you’re stressed about hosting. End the conversation with them making hotel recommendations or clearly understanding that they can stay with you until you – 100% guilt-free – ask them to get a hotel.

        You may find them reassuring and helpful, though. With my first, I was all about shooing away parents so that we can have “bonding time” as a family. Ha! I loved every minute that a grandparent was in the house to make me a sandwich, hold baby while I showered, give me a shoulder to cry on, or just keep me company. I ended up very happily hosting them in our tiny house!

        • Anonymous :

          I think this is good advice. They are extremely sensitive and they very well could end up crying and causing a scene. My mother is emotionally stunted and has gotten extremely upset over far less (see: every family vacation we’ve ever been on). They will also absolutely try to “solve” whatever problem I present by coming up with absurd solutions like, “we’ll sit on the floor” or “we don’t have to eat.”

          The fact is, there is no real room for them. There was an extra room and now it is a baby’s room. And I know that the baby will likely be in our room at first, its just stressful to have two adults occupying the baby’s room (and the only other bedroom in the house).

          I know they will be helpful and I do want them there; I just want to have a place to send them to at the end of the day.

        • I really like hoola hoopa’s advice and, as someone who had a baby 6 weeks ago, I have to agree with her experience of having her parents around after the birth. While you have to determine what is right for you, I don’t know how I could have managed without my parents staying with us for the first week or so. My mom took care of all the food and my dad cleaned the house and ran errands. The result was that my SO and I had more time to bond with the baby and get used to the new normal. Yes, there were a few tense moments with my mom, which was bound to happen with them staying with us, but I am so grateful for their help and support during what was admittedly a very difficult time for me.

          • My friend’s MIL came and stayed with them when her daughter was born. I think for about a month. I was surprised how well it went and how accepting my friend was of her MIL staying and helping. But, she had to have surgery right after the baby (now 6!) was born, so she wasn’t entirely well. And, she said how nice it was to have an experienced mom to get her over the panic of every little thing being ok or worrying that it was wrong. My friend was 41 when her daughter was born and her husband in his 50s, so they were mature but baby newbees.

    • Also, if you havent’ already, check out Captain Awkward (dot com) she has done a lot of posts about setting boundaries with specific scripts/lines you can use. I know I am the local shill for that site, but I am seriously in love with it.

    • It’s your own business and you know your own situation best. But… newborns are so special. The stage lasts such a short time. Your father does not want to miss that blink of an eye moment in his grandchild’s life. Not to mention the blink of an eye moment when his daughter is brand new mommy. At least, I think that’s how my dad felt.

    • kjoirishlastname :

      What we told my mother when I was pregnant with #1: Mom, Mr. O’Irishlastname is going to be home from work that first week after baby is born. It would really be much more helpful for you to come visit when he goes back to work and I need extra hands. Kthx.

      Part of it was not wanting her all up in our business so soon, but the other part of it was honestly that it just didn’t make sense for her to use her vacation time to visit when there was another adult free in the house.

      We employed the same strategy for #2, also.

    • Reading this, it makes me really sad to think of your dad’s feelings being hurt by being told not to rush down in excitement to visit. BUT, you are being totally fair. I didn’t let anyone visit for a week after my last baby was born.

      I have another thought for how to diplomatically handle it, and I also happen to think that this is true. Tell your dad that you would love for him to visit when the baby is around a month old, because that will be when you start to get lonely, want some help, etc. I think it’s true that it’s after the first few weeks when it all really starts to wear and help/visitors become welcome.

    • anon-oh-no :

      lots of people invite themselves over when there is a newborn around; its only very, very recently that that has been considered a no-no, and in many circles its totally normal still — in fact, not showing up at that time might be considered rude.

      • Um, no. It’s rude to invite yourself to anyone’s house, regardless of the reason. Sometimes family and friends get a pass, but that totally depends on one’s relationship.

        It’s okay to ask the new parents if they are up to visitors, though.

        • Agree this is a cultural thing. I would consider it rude to not call on a friend or family member for a significant length of time after a baby is born, invited or not. I also expect my parents to drop in regularly, and have walked into my husband’s family home to find a visitor at the kitchen table waiting for somebody to get home.

        • anon-oh-no :

          any reason you felt the need to say that in such a rude way yourself? I recognize that some people these days think it is rude to show up uninvited, but the point of my post was to point out that not all people (and maybe not even most people) think that is rude. Moreover, it is a very recent (in relative terms) phenomenon and therefore the OPs father might not have seen it the way she sees it. no need to be a jerk.

    • All of it :

      Oh, dear. This pushes buttons.

      I worry about this happening with my step-daughter when she marries and has kids, whether or not my husband is still alive when it happens. She is very stand-offish toward me in much the way you describe (“Oh, I’m really busy that day.” “Oh, I wouldn’t want you to be bored.”) It has been going on for years, so it must be something, and I wish she would just tell me what it is. I have tried every way I know to be warm and supportive for her for years, so I would give money to know what the problem is. In short, if I were your dad, I’d appreciate honesty.

      On the other hand, I have divorced parents, both of whom have always been extremely difficult, and three stepmothers. So I am not unfamiliar with your predicament. It has always been a huge comfort to me to be able to noodle these things over with my (full) sister — the others (half-siblings of various stripes) are too young. It sounds like you might be an only child. Any chance you can reach out to your stepsister(s) to talk it through?

      • I think wanting the last bit of time alone with DH, to get yourself ready, etc, is totally valid.

        I think not wanting anyone actually to stay at your house right afterward is totally valid.

        I’m just going to add one thing…
        Based on some of your side comments…I think there’s a LOT more going on here than new mom stress.
        Your comments about his lack of responsibility/attention when you were a child, combined with a sort of ‘how DARE he think he could come here before my mom” posture pretty much reeks of “I have a lot of unresolved issues I am stuffing instead of dealing with.”

        You say everything is better now, but it isn’t. HE is behaving better, but really, you’re still mad about how he was when you were a kid. That may be justified, but I think you have to ask yourself…what do you want him to do about it now? There is no time travel. It sounds like you feel like he’s only having a relationship with you NOW because the family he replaced (in your mind) you and your mom with is gone, so now he’s coming around wanting a relationship with you, and you’re saying “great!” on the surface, but inside, you’re like “are you kidding me? NOW you want to be part of my life?” So you want him to have a relationship with your son, because the logical part of you says…this is how I should behave. But you also don’t want him to have one until after your mom does and until you say he can, so he knows he’s not first in line. Because the kid inside you is still saying, he hasn’t earned the right to be first in line.

        And, maybe he hasn’t. But I just think you’ll get farther with yourself on this if you’re a little more honest about what you’re really upset about. I think you might also be a little hurt that he can be bothered to show up and be present and excited for his grandchild, but not for the child that was you. Again, in no way am I saying those feelings aren’t justified. But that’s a festering wound that needs to get lanced.

        • This is good advice. The other posters are right that of course you should set boundaries around you and your newborn baby that make you comfortable, but it does sound like your baby is just the immediate cause of bringing up all this other stuff, and maybe justifiably so – I would feel the same if I were in your shoes.

        • Anonymous :

          +1. This is not an Emily Post etiquette issue, this is pretty clearly a Daddy issue. I’m not judging ’cause I have plenty of my own, I”m just saying that you’re looking for validation under the wrong category of problems.

        • +100

        • Orangerie :

          Basically all of this.

        • (Grand)parent help :

          I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said. At the same time, it’s true there’s no time travel and he can’t go back and be a different dad (and, to be fair, my mom had a role in creating distance between us – she’s not blameless here by a long shot), but there are consequences of certain choices. Not punishment, just consequences. The consequences of not being part of your daughter’s (and, yes, I’m an only child of both my parents) life for the first 30 years is that you’re going to have a less close relationship with her than dads who were more involved. You can’t be absent for 30 years and then decide suddenly (because your wife is gone and because there’s a new grandson) that you’re going to step into the role of dad-who-was-always there. I think I’m also annoyed because he’s started calling me three times a week, mostly just because he’s bored. Three times a year to three times a week is a pretty big and sudden jump.

          • You are very correct!! That is annoying and that IS a sudden jump! But now I am agreeing with Anon and Eleanor, this is more about your relationship with him and his recent assumptions than about etiquette. And I think you should TALK to him about that! I know it’s hard when you’re pregnant and you are stressed and emotional and hormones aren’t helping. But what you just said: I think you need to (gently) say that to him! He doesn’t know how you feel yet, he can’t read your mind, and you are letting him drive this whole situation and you are the one who has to be pissed off and annoyed. Be honest with yourself AND with him, that this is a struggle for you to reconcile what he did before with what he wants to do now. And you understand, but you need him to back off and you will come to *him* when you are ready to talk on the phone or have him visit the baby. He does need to understand that these are the consequences of his past behavior and not a punishment, but this is just what is going on for *you* and he needs to respect that if he really wants to rebuild this relationship.

            And if he is the good guy he is trying to show he is now, he will understand that this is the deal and he will respect that and do what *you* want, which was the problem in the first place when you were young and you wanted a dad and he wasn’t there. So, make it about what you want, not what he wants!

            But this sounds really really hard and be kind to yourself, don’t feel guilty for what you want and for being annoyed at him, or whatever else you feel. And take care of yourself in getting through this! You are having a BABY! That is a lot of work as it is! If you need to give yourself a break by just not taking his call one day, just do it. And I hope you feel better, sending lots of Internet Hugs and You Do Yous. ;o)

          • Anon from 5:44 :

            This is all true, and as I said, I in no way judge your feelings, they’re yours and your entitled to them.
            Have you gotten any counseling for this since you got pregnant? Even if you went when you were younger, this is bringing up a lot of new stuff, it seems. Or, at least, stuff that you hadn’t really had to deal with front and center for awhile.

            It’s true that choices have consequences. With all good thoughts for you, I just remind that your choices have consequences too. Be careful that you consider all of them. You won’t be able to time travel either, if down the road you wish you could get time with your father back.

          • WestCoast Lawyer :

            Your relationship sounds a lot like mine. I’ve actually had this exact conversation with my dad – you can’t expect to have the same relationship that I have with my mom, which was forged over 20+ years of experiences overnight (or really, if I’m honest, probably ever) just because you’ve now decided that you want to change your life and make things different. So I am 100% there with you on the frustration. At this point in your life you have to do what’s right for you and your new family.

            But I will say that when I make an extra effort not to view his actions through the mountains of baggage I have (which are not your/my fault and are totally justifiable) and just cut him some slack our visits are much less stressful for me. Try to view it as a gift you are giving yourself rather than something you are doing to accommodate him. Also, three times a week is a lot, feel free to screen his calls and return them when you feel like it.

    • My dad had his issues, and maybe wasn’t always the best father. He was, however, a wonderful grandfather, and all his grandchildren adored him. Yes, I wish my dad was the same person as the kid’s grandfather, but he wasn’t. My dad has been gone a few years now, and I would give a lot for a “do over” on some of the times we pushed him away.

      So–please tell him the truth. It’s your first baby, and you aren’t sure how this will all play out. Right now, you want some one-on-one time with your husband. Once the baby is born, you aren’t sure what you’ll feel, and you may want him desperately to do some things, or you may want to hide in your house with your baby. I bet he’ll understand.

  4. Like that dock a lot.

    Apologies for another pregnancy post, but my social circle hasn’t yielded much advice. I’m interested in having a natural childbirth, but not because I’m opposed to any sort of medical intervention (and in fact, I’ve chosen to stay on anti-anxiety meds throughout my pregnancy and feel most comfortable delivering in a hospital setting in the event I end up opting for some sort of intervention). Can anyone recommend any good books about how to prepare for natural childbirth or techniques to employ during natural childbirth? I’m a little overwhelmed by the selection on Amazon. I’m in a rural area so our local library hasn’t provided anything to check out and hyponobirthing classes are the only option here beyond the standard hospital childbirth class and that doesn’t seem like a good fit for me.

    • Diana Barry :

      The standard class was not very helpful for me. I looked at hypnobirthing but didn’t go to any classes, but this is what helped during my labors:
      – Denial. This is tongue in cheek but in all seriousness, I didn’t know I was in labor for the first 3 hours of my first labor. No idea! I just thought I was sick and had cramps! (It was a few weeks early.) I just kept going to the bathroom and breathing through it, just like you would if you had bad stomach cramps.
      – A contraction is about a minute long at most. I looked at each one as just getting through that one and not worrying about what would happen next.
      – Moving around, standing up, walking, etc., all helped to distract.
      – The hospital (for #1) had TUBS that were awesome and totally helped get me through the last 2 cm.
      – For #1 I had a doula (provided by the hospital) and she did stuff like getting me ice, etc., so my husband could stay in the room with me.
      – Don’t let them put you in the bed lying down on your back. Go on your side and have the bed more upright. I found pushing was not effective at all when I was lying down.
      – If possible, try NOT to go to the hospital right away. Although you don’t want to have the baby in the car on the way, intervention with medication etc. is more likely when you are at the hospital for longer.

      Of course YMMV. My labors were relatively short (all 12 hrs or under) and I didn’t have any mechanical difficulties with delivery (narrow pelvis or breech position, etc.) which would have necessitated more intervention.

      • Denial. So true. I didn’t realize I was in labor until about 6 hrs in. Very similar situation to yours – a few weeks early and thought I just had a stomach virus!

      • Along these lines… focus on the fact that the pain has a purpose. You are not injured, bleeding, in imminent danger. It’s good pain if that makes sense. Our bodies feel pain and we think harm but we can alter our perception through mindfulness techniques.

    • I really liked “Natural Hospital Birth” by Cynthia Gabriel. Have your birth partner/support person read it was well and ensure that they understand your birth plan and that one intervention early on increases the liklihood of more interventions.

      I also did the hypobirthing class and it was great but I found the Gabriel book almost as useful.

      Mainly, I wished I’d waited longer before going to the hospital. I didn’t have an epidural which was what I wanted but that’s not the best route for everyone.

      Focus on trusting your body, remembering that however things go the baby will be out within 24-30 hours and be forgiving of yourself if you don’t have the birth experience you hope for.

      • “be forgiving of yourself if you don’t have the birth experience you hope for.” THIS.

        I cannot tell you how many friends I’ve seen get so depressed because they did not have the labor that they planned for/envisioned, etc. No birth will go exactly the way you expect, so it is important to keep focused on the most important part: having a healthy baby. That being said, I completely understand your desire to prepare for a natural birth. I would first hire a doula. Best money I ever spent. Then, I would ask the doula for their advice on books, classes, etc. Each one will have a slightly different preference and it is good for the two of you to be in sync on methods.

        I did the hypnobabies CDs (expensive new, but you can probably find them used online). My first birth took forever (like labor on and off for 5 days forever), so there was no way I was going to go natural. I was just to exhausted. And that was okay. If I had stubbornly refused the epidural, I would probably have been too worn out to push and may have ended up with a c-section, who knows. #2 was much faster. I had mild contractions during the day, which I just managed with a bath/breathing and by the time I got to the hospital I was already at 9cm, baby came in 20 minutes (so I didn’t really have the option – I had to go natural).

        In both cases, the birth was not what I expected. But in both cases I was completely overjoyed and I remember both experiences very fondly.
        Good luck!

    • I just had a natural childbirth (in a hospital) on Friday. My best facorite resources were: (1) hire a doula that you really really click with. (2) Watch The Business of Being Born (it’s available on itunes for like $3). (3) Read Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth.

      I agree with Diana Barry’s suggestions, but my contractions were consistently 2.5 minutes long, which made me question whether I was actually in labor. Everyone’s labor is different and the most helpful thing I read was that your body won’t break you. You just have to trust that you can do it. Of course, listen to your doc about any special circumstances you may have.

      Good luck!!

      • Diana Barry :

        Totally YMMV, I should have said that I had friends with different length contractions and stuff that came right on top of each other.

        BTW, hope you are feeling well!!!

      • @preg 3L – I missed your earlier announcement. Congratulations – I hope you are doing well!

      • anon for this because don't want to be flamed - just want to inform :

        I know Ina May Gaskin has been recommended here before but before relying on her advice, OP wish to thoroughly research her background. She has no medical qualifications (note that CPM’s don’t even require a high school degree in most states – don’t confuse them with qualified midwives who are CNMs) and has faced legal consequences for the death of her own children, as well a numerous charges from other clients whose babies also died (resulting from her application of the techniques she touts in this book). The medical community considers her views on org–mic birth fraudulent and her claims have been disproved (i.e., shown to be false and ungrounded in any scientific theory) over and over again in numerous medical peer-reviewed articles in top journals.

        • I appreciate the alternative viewpoint. Do you have any other recommendations?

    • OCAssociate :

      The Bradley Method is usually the go-to class for natural childbirth. It sounds like you won’t have classes available in your area, but the Bradley Method website recommends a few books. (Check out Bradleybirth dot com.)

      The Birth Partner is a great book for your labor coach/SO/doula.

    • Greensleeves :

      I second the suggestion for Ina May Gaskin’s books. I read both the Guide to Childbirth and Spiritual Midwifery. I found the birth stories particularly helpful, both for helping me to trust my body and to gather ideas for how to deal with labor. Definitely get up, move around, get in the tub or shower, do what makes you feel comfortable. Flat on my back was NOT comfortable for me! A doula can be very helpful in making suggestions when your brain isn’t working well and in helping ensure that hospital staff is aware of and respects your wishes. And I echo not going to the hospital too soon.

      • kjoirishlastname :

        +1 for Ina May. I feel that reading the birth stories in GtC was particularly helpful and empowering, and between that, and hiring a doula, (and an understanding and awesome OB), those things together set me up for the best possible outcome. I was a VBAC candidate, and we made up our minds to do everything we could to avoid both medication and c-section. In the end, I had a pretty quick labor (2am-10:45am) and though pushing was MUCH more awful than labor, I did it unmedicated.

      • Fourthing for Ina May. I’m pregnant for the first time, and the birth stories have been giving me courage.

    • Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth. In my opinion this is a “take what you want, leave the rest” book. Some of it was a little “out there” for me, but this is the only book I read that really made me feel empowered. (I had a unplanned c with my first and I was determined to have a VBAC). I read many books on natural childbirth and this was my favorite mainly because of the birth stories included. I felt like “I deserve to have an experience just like those moms!”

      I also recommend looking into vocal toning that goes along with some prenatal yoga classes. I think there is a book or two on this out there. Again this may be a little out there for you but it made a huge difference for me. Learning to use my voice to work through the contractions helped me get through l&d and get my natural VBAC.

      As others had said, just go with what your body is telling you and be proud that you are birthing a baby in whatever way you do. I was so disappointed after my first birth and carried a lot of guilt for years that I didn’t have the birth that I wanted. All that matters is that you and baby are healthy. Best of luck!

    • Out of Place Engineer :

      I had two unmedicated births — with the first, I was in complete denial that I was in labor until it was too late. The second I nearly gave birth on the side of the road. I have the Bradley Natural Childbirth Book that I read through, but never took the actual classes. It is focused on partner labor support, with lots of excersies to try. I’d be happy to pass it along to you, if you are interested.

      • I would really appreciate that! I’m blocked from creating a throwaway google mail account at work but please leave me your email address or check back later and I’ll post an email address!

      • Just kidding. You can contact me at countryr e t t e (no spaces) at the google mail service.

  5. Everlane silk top question – has anyone put the Everlane silk shirts through the washing machine and/or hand wash? If so, were you successful? Purchased my first Everlane top – love the price and the quality of workmanship – not so much the “Dry clean only” tag. Thanks!

    • I’m interested to hear any experience with Everlane silk as well, esp. re. the necessity of dry cleaning…

    • I think I asked a question like this a few weeks ago, but I can’t remember the thread. If you try “ everlane dry clean” or something like that, you might find it. I think the general consensus from commenters was that it would be tricky to dry clean. Sad because it’s the only thing keeping me from purchasing one…

    • LeChouette :

      I have a silk blouse and have hand washed it and washed it in the drying machine. It does lose that lovely soft brushed feeling; but then I think it would lose that after dry cleaning anyway based on my other silk blouses that I’ve had dry cleaned. Hope that helps!

  6. Lululemon at it again:

    I appreciate any business that tries to prevent people from buying on sale and reselling for a profit, but this seems like another just another level of [expletive redacted] from this company.

  7. This is really cute and functional.

    • Cute, sure. But I already have so many books stacked up at my bedside, I can’t see adding fake ones.

  8. Food Allergies Help :

    Sorry for the kids-based post, but I’m looking for some good advice and guidance. I received a call this morning from my son’s daycare teacher that my (2 yr old) son appeared to be having an allergic reaction. One side of his face was swollen and broke out into hives and his eyes were swelling shut and watering. By the time I got him to the ER, he was having a little trouble breathing as well. After an epi shot, benadryl and steroids, he’s now sleeping it off. So the scary stuff is over. His eyes are still all red and watery, but at least the swelling is gone and he can breathe well.

    But…all he’s had this morning at daycare was a biscuit and peaches. He has both of those foods regularly without any issues. I’ll be calling his doctor today to follow up, but has anyone developed (or had kids develop) an allergy to something out of the blue? I’m more than a little worried that he developed such a serious reaction to “something,” and that “something” is stuff that he’s exposed to all the time.

    • Wow, that’s scary! I wonder if it’s possible that it wasn’t food – but then again, I can see why you’d think that’s what it was. I recently had a conversation with my allergist about this very thing. He said that food allergies are the one thing that you can develop or grow out of. I was allergic to oats as a baby/child, from the time my mother introduced cereal, and I grew out of it in puberty.

      • Anon in NYC :

        I have developed / grown out of food allergies. As a young kid I was allergic to cantaloupe (no longer allergic to it), and now in my 30’s I’ve developed a sensitivity to cow’s milk. As a slightly older child (late elementary school age, I believe), my sister developed a mild allergy to “fruits with shiny skins.”

    • Sure – allergies can come and go. I don’t think it’s terribly uncommon. You can be exposed to something quite a few times, and then your immune system freaks out and overcompensates and you have an allergic reaction. And then you’ll be allergic for a few years, aren’t exposed to it, and it gets reintroduced into your diet, and you’ll have no reaction at all.

      I didn’t have seasonal allergies until I was in my teens, then they went away for a bit, came back for a few years, and went away again. Sometimes repeated exposure to small quantities of the allergen can help desensitize a person to that allergic trigger, but that’s always best done under a doctor’s supervision, especially if the reaction for that person tends to be severe.

    • So scary that he needed an epipen the first time he had an allergic reaction! I have an older kid with severe allergies, including peanuts, but have never had to use the epipen (in his case, it’s good that he’s a very picky eater).

      I do know of adults who developed severe allergies later in life. I’m thinking of an acquaintance who became severely allergic to kiwis in her 30s.

      Fruits are known to be more allergenic than vegetables and many other items, so the peaches are more suspect than the biscuit, unless the biscuit (cookie?) was a new brand and not nut-free. Is it possible your child inadvertently picked something off the floor that made it into his mouth? I’d be very nervous not knowing what caused such a severe reaction!

      It’s also possible that a non-food allergen could cause a reaction, but I don’t know how severe. One of my other kids got a swollen eye and face due to touching a dog and then touching his eye. He had touched dogs many times in the past, but apparently different breeds didn’t affect him. In that case, the reaction went away without treatment. I’d also be suspicious of wool.

      Let us know if you have an update!

    • Anonymous :

      How do you know that’s all he has eaten? Don’t 2 year olds typically munch on anything they cam fit in their mouths, from a friends discarded sandwich crust to the cat’s tail? I’d be more concerned that day care called you and you went and got him and took him to the ER. Allergic reactions like that should get a 911 call.

      • I agree with both points. If he’s in daycare it’s likely there’s other food around that he could have gotten ahold of. Unless you told them you’d get him and take him to the ER, the daycare really should have called 911 for such a severe reaction.

        • Food Allergies Help :

          Very fair points, but I feel compelled to defend the day care because it’s basically across the street from the ER and I was already picking him up when he developed the trouble breathing. So we literally just dashed over. When they called, I said I’d come pick him up but to call me and the hospital if he seemed to get worse.

          As for the food, it was at breakfast and for meals, they all sit at a table and everyone eats the same thing (with slight variations – soy milk for some, etc). It’s fairly regimented as to who eats what, I guess I see why now. But I trust that he only ate what they said he ate.

    • I am 27 and developed allergies to all kinds of fruit a year ago. I had been eating apples and peaches daily my whole life and out of nowhere an apple caused my throat to swell up. I had a similar reaction to a peach as well. I believe what I had (oral allergy syndrome) more typically happens in adults, though. It is actually a pollen allergy that manifests as a reaction to the pollen exposure in the skin of the fruit. Here is a link to the summary of it:

      I just carry benadryl with me (for mild attacks) and an epi pen in the event that my throat swells shut again. I imagine it’s a little more complicated with kids, though.

      • Woods-comma-Elle :

        I suffer from this and I cannot tell you how awesome it is that this now has a name, rather than people being like ‘you’re making it up because you don’t want to eat healthy stuff’. I would kill to be able to eat a fresh apple!

        I’ve had this since I was small (flashbacks to pre-school teachers forcing me to eat carrots which were making me feel really ill and not believing me when I said I couldn’t eat them), so it is possible that this could be involved and it can sometimes manifested in the symptoms the OP described. It should show up in tests if you test for pollen like M and AIMS below have said.

        • Baconpancakes :

          Do I dare to eat a peach…?

          When I suddenly developed an allergy to stone fruits, including peaches, plums, and cherries, and weirdly, figs, after eating them for 25 years, my heart just about broke. I never had any serious respiratory reaction, just a terrible itch in my mouth and throat, but I’m in love with fruit, and not eating fresh, juicy peaches every summer is the BLURST.

          It’s finally starting to go away a little, as I get my general pollen allergies under control, and when I regularly take my allergy meds, I can have one peach at a time with only a teensy bit of minimal mouth-itchiness. It’s worth it.

          • I have found that my issues are seasonal (unfortunately that means I have to enjoy fruits out of season usually – I have been eating lots of apples lately). I have heard peeling the skin and/or cooking the fruit also helps, although I realize this isn’t the same as eating it fruit.

      • Anonymous :

        I didn’t mean to report that! Sorry!

    • It’s probably the peaches.

      The same thing happened to me with stone fruit in my 20s. Never had a single allergy before. Luckily, I’ve never had trouble breathing – just the hives, eyes swelling, lip swelling, itchiness, etc., but I have also always taken Benadryl right away. Now, I try to always have Benadryl on hand and if I think I’m having a reaction to something I take it right away. Get some liquid Benadryl and give it to your son’s teacher and make sure to keep it with you at all times. An epipen at school and at home is also a good idea. Incidentally, it’s much easier to overreact and take some Benadryl than it would be to just inject myself with an epipen so it’s a good halfway measure if you’re ever not sure.

      My allergist diagnosis is Oral Allergy Syndrome. Basically the idea is that if you have any kind of tree pollen allergy, you can develop an allergy to anything that grows on tree like stone fruit and tree nuts. I’ve also started to have reactions to raw tree nuts, too. FWIW, most reactions tend to be only to raw things, not cooked (although at a certain point that can change, which is scary). Some allergists believe that if you can minimize the underlying pollen allergy, you can curb the food allergy. But I haven’t done allergy shots so I can’t say anything based on my personal experience.

      • Baconpancakes :

        AIMS, there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

        I don’t know how severe your general pollen allergies are, but after moving to a lower-pollen (urban) area, my OAS starting getting manageable. Something about overstimulating the allergen-reactors sets them into hyperdrive. I can eat plums now, and about half a cup of raw cherries. For peaches I still need to be on a regular course of allegra, but since that’s pollen season anyway, I’m probably taking it anyway.

        • That is fantastic! One of the things that was so debilitating for me about OAS initially is that it came out of nowhere and it seemed like there were just more and more things I was not able to eat each year. And, of course, all the things were things I loved like almonds and peaches and apricots and so on. I actually started to have mild panic attacks because I felt like I never knew what would cause it next (and PSA – do not take Zyrtec D or Claritin D or anything else with pseudonephrine (sic) on a regular basis because it will make you crazy like it did me and then you’ll be sitting there in a crowded opera hall freaking out that the dessert you just had may kill you before the lights go back on).

          For better or worse, I am not planning to move, but a good friend of mine has been able to manage his severe pollen allergies through acupuncture (he goes once a year for two treatments) and I was hoping that if it worked for me, my OAS would also decline. So glad to hear that yours has — more incentive for me to go try this. Thanks and here’s hoping it keeps getting better!

    • Allergy family :

      1) First and foremost, get your child to an allergist and get him tested. If the reaction required an epipen, you probably need to start carrying them. If you don’t like the first allergist, get past the initial safety stuff (testing and epi RXs) and search until you find one you and your child like. If your child has serious allergies, your doctor may be a pretty big presence in your life. Frankly, it’s a little more important that your child clicks with this person than that you do. Some kids (like me and my brother) can go through episodes of denial (not carrying their injector and eating foods recklessly), so it’s important that your child like the doctor so that the doctor’s info makes an impression. If your child’s allergies are serious, it’s not an issue of getting sick. It’s an issue of dying.

      2) Yes, reactions can absolutely be caused by a food your child has consumed before and even consumed regularly. In fact, prevailing allergy science indicates that a person must be exposed to the allergen at least once (usually without a reaction) to develop the allergy.

      3) Your child may not have reacted to something he ate. As a child, my brother went to the ER on several occasions after playing with children who had recently eaten peanut butter sandwiches. I actually suspect this could be the case for your child because his reaction was more in his face and eyes than in his airway. Kids tend to touch their faces and eyes a lot, and those areas are more reactive to allergens than hands.

      My brother had the same symptoms when he played with children with the allergens on their hands. If he ever actually eats a nut, he will go into anaphylactic shock and die in a matter of minutes.

      4) The new AuviQ injectors are the bomb dot com. Why did it take so long??? I’ve carried an epipen almost my whole life, and they’re a really inconvenient size as shape. The AuviQ just came out. It’s the same medicine, but it’s roughly the size of a deck of cards. I know I sound like a commercial, but seriously, they’re awesome. All the more awesome for guys who don’t have purses because unlike epipens, these fit in a pocket.

      I apologize for the scary post. I’m always so upset when I see parents (or others who interact with children) who don’t take allergies seriously. Hopefully your child doesn’t have an allergy so bad that it can cause anaphylactic shock, but if he does, the allergen will be just as dangerous to your child as a loaded gun to the rest of us.

      (Soapbox moment– for all of the people who scoff at the allergy culture because of the rise of intolerances and people being “free” of things that they aren’t actually allergic to…yes, I know it’s a pain, but there’s a special place you-know-where for you if your put-upon attitude ever causes a child to be hospitalized or- heaven forbid- die from an allergic reaction. That is all.)

      • Food Allergies Help :

        Thanks so much – this is incredibly helpful. We got another epipen from the hospital, but I’m going to ask the doctor (pedi or allergist, whoever we see first) to give us prescriptions to keep one at home, at daycare, etc. I have several friends whose children have life-threatening nut allergies and I luckily knew, because of their experiences, that this could be something incredibly serious.

        • Allergy family :

          Good luck! Hopefully his allergy fairly minor. Whether it is or isn’t, we’re here for you!

          Oh and if you’re told that he’s a candidate for allergy shots, look into allergy drops which are also known as SLIT (sublingual immunotherapy). I’m also a walking commercial for them. I tried allergy shots twice but only made it through about 2.5 of the required 5+ years each time. The allergy drops have made me a new person Though they’re expensive because they aren’t covered by insurance, they’re way less of a pain than allergy shots. Heads up though- ENTs tend to be proponents of SLIT while allergists tend to prefer traditional allergy shots.

        • hoola hoopa :

          Epi pen carrying mom, here, and I had the same thought about an allergen travelling in via another kid. I’ve found peanut butter on toys, clothing, fingers, faces of other kids. Our DC is conscientious, but weird things happen. Once my child reacted to just picking up a peanut shell that she and some other kids found outside, probably dropped buy a bird.

          But it’s also true that he could have developed an allergy to wheat or stone fruit.

          Get him to an allergist asap and do some skin tests. It’s a lousy way to spend a morning (bring toys, ipad, etc – I like “active” toys that keep their hands busy instead of scratching their backs), but you really, really need to get it figured out. It’s very dangerous to not know what caused such a severe reaction. Once you know what he’s allergic too, it’s much less scary.

          Make sure that DC is trained on how to recognize an allergic reaction and how to use an epi pen. You can get training pens, which are very helpful. You allergist should be able to give you a trainer and materials. I also feel better have a ton of epi pens – one at DC, one at home, one in diaper bag, and one in my purse. Don’t keep them in your car, because the temp fluctuations aren’t good.

      • kjoirishlastname :

        Also have a son with life-threatening Dairy allergy.

        FARE (food allergy research & education) is a GREAT resource. Be wary of your pediatrician as opposed to an allergist. A lot of pediatricians aren’t up on the current research on allergies.

        You don’t necessarily have to find a pediatric allergist, but if your market area has one, that’s great. We live in a small community, and our allergist is the only one around, so she sees all the kids locally. Plus, she’s great.

        +1 for the Auvi-Q. (coincidentally, I went from elementary school through high school with the guys who developed it). Much more user-friendly than an epi-pen, but essentially the same. The other good thing it has going for it is its size/shape. It is much easier for a teenage kid to put it in a pocket than an epi-pen, and so if this means that more kids will carry them around, that’s a win in my book.

        Next to do is to get with the daycare to see what kinds of accommodations they’re going to make. Technically, they don’t have to. If it is a public school program, they do. But, a private daycare/preschool does not have to. They should, if they want to retain you as clients, but that is THE entire reason that we left our daycare when ODS was 14 months. They were unwilling to provide reasonable accommodations. We’ve had a nanny ever since–and he is now in kindergarten. He had multiple inexplicable (to them) exposures at daycare, but has not had any kind of undocumented exposure since changing up our childcare model. (He did eat a cheez-it off the floor in the library, but our then-nanny was on it, and immediately gave him benadryl).

        Hugs, mama.

    • It’s also possible he was exposed to something from someone else. I know I’ve seen kids walking around the infant/toddler rooms at our daycare with peanut butter on a bagel (despite the clear no nut policy, parents drop them off with it and teachers don’t always notice immediately–although the issue is quickly resolved when I point it out). I don’t even have children with nut allergies, but I always think about those little kids touching everything and then putting hands in mouths. So, consider possible exposures to things that he didn’t eat (or that they don’t know he ate).

    • Allergic at 7 :

      I developed an allergy to most raw fruits and veggies when I was 7. Up until that point, I was completely fine (which is horrible, because I know how wonderful raw fruits/veggies are, I just can’t eat them anymore).

    • It could also be an allergy to a drug or medicine your child has had in the recent past. e.g. a child in my family got an allergic reaction to amoxycillin – he had finished his 10 day course of it a few days earlier, and the reaction came after! Much delayed, and not as strong a reaction (rash, fever) but apparently its possible.

    • Thanks so much to everyone. This is a ton of helpful advice that I’ll be using in the future.

      • CapHillAnon :

        As a point of interest: if it does turn out to be the peaches that caused the reaction, there is a link between stone fruit allergies and latex allergies, according to my allergist–so until you have it figured out, watch for any reactions to balloons, some bandaids, hospital gloves, etc. As someone who has been alllll through this, I echo the advice here: get a great allergist straight away and do not rely on your ped for allergy advice. I have a rec if you’re in DC. Good luck!

  9. yay! I love Ipod docks. I think Myrna want’s to meet Benjamin but am torn about wether to let her see him now. I am NOT dateing him, but he keep’s stareing at me at work here, alot like Lynn and Mason, but they are sleepeing together and I have not even kissed this guy. The manageing partner told me to charm the pants off this guy, and something tells me he want’s me to do JUST that! FOOEY! I am a partner and do NOT want guy’s thinkeing I am onley a token partner and resident sex toy for them. Benjamin is a nice guy, but I do NOT want to have sex with him. The manageing partner say’s I should make sure he is happy, but that should NOT mean sexueally. Now I am confused over the mixed signeals I am getteing from him.

    Benjamin want’s me to visit DC, but I think unless I open up a DC office for the firm, I should decline. Beside’s if I visit, where would I stay? I do NOT want to run up hotel bills unless I can charge it to a cleint, and we have onley a few cleint’s out of state. What would the hive do? I am getting confused. FOOEY!

  10. Dating Advice TJ–

    Do you ladies have any advice on how to not go crazy when dating (not committed yet, but more than 10 dates in) relationships end? In the past year, I have experienced the bewildering circumstance that I start dating a new guy, all seems good, we date for a couple of months, he acts very much like things are progressing towards getting serious, and then…he literally stops calling. No pushing from me on defining the relationship or getting serious, I’m super conscious about not pursuing too much or talking about things down the line–just lots of good dates, getting closer, and then not even the courtesy of a phone call to break things off.

    I am in my mid 30s and am newish to the dating world after several years in a relationship, but this total lack of communication as to the end of something just seems so much worse than the rejection itself. It’s driving me crazy! I obviously try to just focus on work, go to yoga or the gym, hang with friends, etc., but it’s almost impossible not to think about it all the time. It’s making me feel super insecure about myself, especially since it has happened twice now! The first time I chalked it up to the guy being a jerk, but this second time I feel like I must either be doing something I have no idea I am doing, or the dating world really has just turned into a crazy place where people don’t have the decency to notify you that they’re no longer interested.

    Advice? Similar stories?

    • It. Is. Not. You.

      I promise. I know, this was a huge shock to me, too, but this is very common in dating now a days. I do NOT understand it. But I am pretty much in the exact situation as you and it really is just that the dating world has turned into a crazy place where people don’t have the decency to break things off. It is bizarro.

      That said. Some people deal with this by just accepting more dates, so that there are always new dates in the pipeline when someone pulls the disappearing act. I got way too stressed out trying to do that, so I am currently in a break.

      But I really don’t have any other advice, I am struggling with this same thing. All I can offer is commiseration and assurance that you are not crazy. You are not crazy.

      • +1 I had a guy do this to me and I was devastated. I found out after the fact he was a serial dater. Incidentally I have heard from other women that the same thing happened to them. A lot of time these guys are actually dating a few girls at one time and putting on a great, over the top show and just drop the women as they lose interest. I read a blog post where the author said this guy she was dating would text her multiple times a day to tell her he was thinking about her but would never actually use her name in any of the texts. She perceived it to be that he was so attentive and into her but she found out after the fact that he was actually sending out the same texts to multiple girls and didn’t want to risk mixing up names. So to reiterate – It. Is. Not. You. It sucks but chock it up to the fact that you dodged a bullet and get back out there.

      • Does it make me sound schoolmarmish to say that the lack of proper communication nowadays is alarming? I feel like they’re all similar behaviors: (a) not RSVPing to invitations, even wedding invitations; (b) not letting someone you’ve been dating know that it’s not working out; (c) not dinging job candidates, even those who’ve flown in for day-long interviews. Why does it seem like people have gotten so much worse about all three of these things? (It’s been a few years since I was last in the dating pool, but this sort of thing definitely happened to me once or twice.)

        • If it does, then I’ll join the schoolmarm club with you. Because this makes me completely insane. I have posted before about friends doing it with social plans, just no showing or texting at the last second they are not coming.

          But I firmly believe that texting has ruined dating and if that makes me an 80year old man in a rocking chair yelling about his lawn and those damn kids, then so be it.

        • I think its the lack of repercussions, combined with holding out for the best offer.

          I mean, what’s it to me if I don’t RSVP to your invitation? The consequences (which is what, not getting invited to the next thing) are so far removed from the behavior that you don’t learn anything. Because people tend to have so much going on that they don’t notice the consequences, whereas social circles tended to be a lot more concentrated before all these fancy communications options came into being.

        • Woods-comma-Elle :

          I’m right there with you. As Zora says, the whole ‘just not calling’ thing is so typical but it applies to things other than dating as well. It’s like now it is (supposedly) totally acceptable to be late for things because you can always just text/e-mail someone a quick message to say ‘running 15 mins late, soz’. Obviously it’s excellent that you can do this if you can’t avoid being late, but for too many people it’s a carte blanche for poor timekeeping.

          Lawn. Off. Get. My.

        • I also blame texting, for all of it. Rawr.

          To the OP, I have seen this happen so many times, so I can assure you that it is not anything that you are doing that is driving them away. Seriously. I have friends who have gotten sick of this behavior and have taken to calling the guy out afterwards, which may or may not accomplish anything, but it seems to make them feel better.

          I do think the advice below from Anne Shirley, Sydney Bristow and Olivia Pope that being very open and honest about your own expectations may reduce the chances of this happening in the future (or, at the very least, drive the ones who would drop you without a word away faster).

          If it helps, I have a friend who suffered this experience twice in a 6-month period last year, and now she is happily in a five-month old relationship with someone who consistently lets her know that he cares about her. They’re not all like that.

      • MaggieLizer :

        Yeah this is super common, unfortunately. A good friend just had a guy do this to her two days before they were supposed to go on their first overnight trip together. She had already purchased concert tickets and paid for a hotel room. She was freaking out the morning of the concert trying to find someone to go with her, which was really tough because of course by then most people couldn’t get off work early and/or had plans. The guy still hasn’t even bothered to text her.

      • THANK YOU! I really needed to hear that I was not alone and that I am not crazy. I feel terrible that you ladies and your friends have also experienced this. It’s just not acceptable! (and now I sound like an ancient “get off my lawn” lady, but RAWR).

    • Anne Shirley :

      Do you want a serious long term relationship? If so, why are you super conscious of not telling them that? There’s nothing wrong with being open with someone you are dating about what you want out of the relationship.

      • Sydney Bristow :

        I second this completely. Especially after dating for a few months. It’s scary, but I put a premium on feeling like I could openly discuss what I want out of a relationship or life in general.

      • Olivia Pope :

        Third. If you want to have a relationship (of any sort) that involves open and honest communication, start it that way. If you want a serious relationship and the person you’re dating doesn’t, it’s best to know that and move on. Or if you both want a serious relationship, it’s best to know that and keep it moving!

      • I completely agree with this. In both cases, this was discussed within the first few dates–that we were both looking for a serious relationship, obviously not that we were committing right then and there. I think that’s part of what makes the radio silence after many, many dates and lots of the guy talking about things “we” should do, etc., so much more frustrating. And for the record, I certainly didn’t always wait for the guy to contact me, just tried not to be pursuing them more than they were pursuing me.

        Just baffling.

    • Call/text him and ask if he’s still interested in going out, if you haven’t already, and find out. People stop calling when they decide they’re not interested and don’t want to have to tell you. There’s also the thing where if he’s always initiating things and you’re not, he might assume you’re not interested. Don’t be too self-conscious about not seeming too interested – if you’re interested, let them know. You’re not going to scare people away who wouldn’t eventually be scared away anyway.

    • Anonymous :

      As weird as it may sound, I actually found the book “You Lost Him at Hello” by Jess McCann to be of great help with my dating life and for eliminating this very frustration. A lot of McCann’s advice is sort of centered around eliminating the idea from men’s minds that there may be something better out there and so they shouldn’t invest/commit with you.

      I applied a lot of her advice to the beginning of my current relationship (and we’ve been together approx. 18 months and are living together) and while I certainly can’t say her advice was the sole reason for the success of our relationship (my boyfriend was the right man, timing was good, etc.), it was helpful.

      It’s a quick read, and I have found some of the principles she espouses useful in other areas of life (eg. job search).

      • Just reserved that one at the library. Thank goodness for the Kindle version. The cover is kind of embarrassing-looking.

      • I’ll check that out–thank you!

    • Wildkitten :

      I think if you’ve been on 10 dares aren aren’t in a relationships, and what you want is a relationship, he’s probably not the guy for you. That’s a lot of dates!

    • Ugh. Yes. This happened so many times to me that I developed a protocol.

      1-Text him one last time in a very casual way: “any plans this weekend?” suffices.
      2-Select period of time to await a reply depending on the guy’s habitual response time but no less than 4 hours and no more than 48 hours.
      3-After that time has passed, tell myself that I don’t deserve to be treated this way and, in the long run, it isn’t meant to be if he’s the kind of guy who treats me this way.
      4-Work out.
      5-Purchase wallowing food + duration depending on mood and level of disappointment. Most “break-ups” only require 2-3 hours of wallowing on a work night, a pint of ice cream, and a few episodes of trashy TV. The most serious might involve a weekend, cookie dough, alcohol, and re-watching a full season of Dr. Who or Buffy or …
      6-After wallowing period, eat a salad, work-out, and message 5 random dudes on OK Cupid.

      Seriously, that’s what I used to do. I hate to say it, but my friends (especially happily-coupled ones) were no help and didn’t want to be my wallow-buddy. They’d tell me unhelpful, stupid things like “I don’t see why you are so disappointed it was just a few dates” or “well, he obviously wasn’t that into you, just move on” or blame me for not being clear enough about wanting a serious relationship.

  11. Insecure First-Year :

    Looking for some advice re how to handle an acquaintance looking for work. Someone I know from law school just emailed me asking about applying for a job at my law firm. My firm has been looking to hire, although we have some more-qualified prospects in the pipelines. He is a smart guy, but he seriously struggled with interpersonal relationships in law school. Frankly, I wouldn’t consider him as a friend, but I was always nice to him just in the way I would be cordial or polite to anyone at school. I heard through the grapevine that he has continued to have similar problems getting along with others at his judicial clerkship. For that reason, I would have trouble recommending him (and, I’m not particularly excited at the prospect of working with him.)

    But, the twist is that my firm offers a hefty (like, 10% of my salary) bonus to an associate who brings a new associate into the firm. It might be wrong, but that bonus is seriously calling my name.

    I could just offer to pass his resume along, but I know that they will ask my opinion about him. (It’s my group that’s hiring and it’s a fairly small group, so we all work together pretty closely.)

    Another possibly relevant piece of information is that, because of his politics and the type of work that we do/clients we represent, I know that this would not be his first-choice job.

    I know there have been similar discussions on this forum before, but I guess I’m just looking for some more specific advice on how to respond to him. Thanks!

    • 1. Do not recommend him in earnest and omit any negative information because you’re tempted by the $. You will do far more damage to your reputation for good judgment than whatever $ is, if he makes it through the interviews and turns out to be horrible to work with.

      2. That said, a lot of your negative info is hearsayish. You could agree to pass his resume along, and actually do it, but frame your concerns to your colleagues in a reasonable way. Then if they decide not to interview him, and he contacts you about it, you can say they found candidates with better experience in X.

      3. The politics point may well not matter so I’d leave it alone, unless you have a really specific concern. If he’s very socially liberal but your clients are all The Man, well, there’s plenty of those at my firm anyway.

      • Insecure First-Year :

        Thanks for the good advice. I definitely would not recommend him in earnest–I value my reputation and integrity more than that bonus! I worry that the bonus is what’s making me consider passing his resume along in the first place.

    • Just curious, is the guy inappropriate or just socially awkward? As a relative of high-functioning males with Asperger’s syndrome, I am just curious about WHY you find him off-putting. If someone is scary or inappropriate, say no more. But some people are merely gauche, and I’d like to think they’re not discriminated against (socially, I don’t mean legally).

      • Insecure First-Year :

        He’s definitely also socially awkward but that doesn’t concern me–I think lots of lawyers are socially awkward. It’s more that how he spoke and acted toward others made a number of people actively dislike him. (AKA, people think he’s an a$$hole.)

        • Wow, that’s entirely different than what I pictured. Thanks for the response!

    • Tough call. Keep in mind that if you recommend him and he gets hired and he sucks, it’s your reputation that will get pummeled. However, it is always good to help others from your law school class when you can. They might just end up being a source of business in the future. If it was me, I’d tell your classmate that you would be happy to pass on his resume. Then I would pass it on, but I would also make it clear that you do not know him on a personal level and you leave it entirely to the hiring committee to determine if he is a good fit and stay out of the process of hiring/interviewing.

    • I don’t think you have anything to lose by passing his resume along and said you were colleagues in law school. His weakness in interpersonal skills does not mean he won’t be a good associate. I’m not in private practice, but I doubt the firm would hold it against you if they interviewed him but did not hire him, or if they hired him and it ultimately did not work out.

    • If you are comfortable, you can simply pass his resume on to HR or whoever makes the hiring decision saying: “Attached is the resume of my law school classmate who is interested in the XYZ job. Please consider him for an interview, should his qualifications meet FIRM ABC’s needs.” You haven’t really put your credibility behind him if you phrase it in a neutral manner. But you are still putting his resume forward, so if you really don’t want any association with him from your colleagues, I’d refrain.

      • Putting his resume forward is relatively low-risk, I’d say, so this seems appropriate for an acquaintance whom you haven’t worked with.

        That said, it might also be worth considering if he would have a better go with his problems (interpersonal teamwork) in your company vis-a-vis in his previous work environments, i.e. would your team be capable of onboarding him and working effectively with him? If not, then I wouldn’t expect him to succeed in your firm any more than he has at previous jobs.

  12. Does anyone have a book that could recommended ways to be a better litigator? I know that it requires real life practice, but one can only get so much of that. Anything that would offer ideas for improving examination-type skills (direct, cross, defending/taking depositions, that kind of stuff) would be awesome!

    • I know if you do the NITA (National Institute of Trial Advocacy…I think) deposition training, they have a great book that basically outlines everything that you learn. I’d look online to see if you can buy/find a copy of that.

      Best case scenario – find some NITA training being offered in your city. Their deposition and trial training is very helpful. It’s also usually offered as CLE credit, so it’s a win/win.

      • Unfortunately (fortunately?) my jurisdiction doesn’t require CLE, so my firm won’t pay for any. But I looked at the NITA website and they have some free webcasts that might be a good starting point (also, some paid ones that sound really helpful but have a cost). They look like a great resource!

    • I love the book Evidentiary Foundations by Imwinkelreid (I think I spelled that right). It tells you how to lay foundations for admission of evidence.

      Also, if you can swing it NITA does great practical seminars where you can practice these skills and get direct feedback to improve. Everyone I know who has done one just raves about it.

      But yes, practice is the best way to get better.

    • The Art of Cross Examination is an oldy but a goody.
      I’ve also heard amazing things about Trying Cases to Win In One Volume (not the old 2 vol. set).

      Neither is cheap but most of these books tend not to be.

    • Senior Attorney :

      Back in the day I used to love “Trial Techniques” by Thomas Mauet. But be warned, that was years ago and I’m not familiar with recent editions. Might be worth a look, though.

    • Anything by McElhaney. I love “The Trial Notebook.” He might have more recent work out, too. And I think the ABA’s “Litigation” magazine is great. You can get back issues in the library.

    • The best way to improve litigation skills is to watch experienced litigators at work. If you can, sit in on some trials and take notes on what swayed you positively or negatively. I’d also encourage reading books on the laws of evidence and the substantive areas of law you’re practicing. IMO, the best litigators are comfortable in those areas and it impacts their confidence level. And I disagree that you can only get so much experience; 15 years in, I still learn something from every trial. Good luck!

  13. Based on what you said I don’t think I would do anything to promote his getting a job at your firm. As good as the money would be, I don’t think it would be worth risking your reputation by advancing(whether reccomending or passing along a resume) a subpar candidate. In the event that he was hired and didn’t perform well, people would probably mentally associate him with you.

  14. Okay, I’m going to do it. What does everyone think of that French video making the rounds that’s supposed to show what casual sexism looks like (by having everyone in the video swap gender roles)? I agree that the world this (wo)man inhabits is nightmarish. But it looks *nothing* like the world I live in. I’m not saying that some women don’t experience some or all of what this guy experiences in his day, but I’m not sure this is what a typical woman’s day looks like. Also, I thought he was extremely condescending to the daycare worker. I know many strong, smart, self-assured women whose choice to wear hijab is purely personal and is truly an act of devotion to God, not just something a controlling husband is making her do (although I realize the US and France have taken very different tacks on the whole veil issue and maybe this is just a French thing). Just wondering if other people felt like this was a good depiction of their world because, honestly, I haven’t even had a homeless guy yell the things at me that the homeless woman in the video yells. Mostly the homeless guys I pass just tell me to have a blessed day.

    • Here’s the video

    • PSA since TBK forgot one –

      This video is NSFW (unless your work permits videos of shirtless ladies).

      Hoping that IT doesn’t pay me a visit now that I’ve clicked on the link

      • Shoot! Sorry. I totally forgot that part. Yeah, in this gender swapped world women go running shirtless. Sorry about that.

    • Woods-comma-Elle :

      I’ve definitely had plenty of dudes, most of the time not homeless, yell all kinds of stuff to me, but this may also be a cultural thing and in my experience of both sides of the pond, cat calling is way more common in the UK than I’ve seen in the US. A particularly common request is for females to expose their top halves in the street, though I have yet to come across a situation where someone has complied.

      Though the video is extreme, I’ve definitely experienced the cat calling and the subsequent negativity when a woman doesn’t react like the guys have just done her a huge favour by paying her some lude compliment about her rack or similar. The bit where they say ‘can’t take a compliment’ or something like that definitely happens here.

    • I do think that sexism is still more hardcore in public in cities Ive been in Europe than it is here. In France/Belgium/Spain I still got some pretty obnoxious open street harassment. I read some recent pieces about Italy and how gender roles are still crazy entrenched at home.

      That said I think it is also pretty serious in the US, too, depending on what cities you’re in and what part of them. I just had 4 guys yelling some pretty disgusting stuff at me out of a car following me down the street theother night.

      Altho, I do think some of this is a little over the top in the video, and I do have a problem with France’s racist and paternalistic treatment of Muslims, Muslim women and the hijab.

    • hoola hoopa :

      I’d also add a warning that it includes a scene with a sexual attack that may be sensitive for some.

      My thoughts are that (1) this is about France, not the US and (b) the later half of the film is about situation which for most women in industrialized countries is thankfully not a routine occurrence.

      I lived in France for a while – although briefly and now many years ago – but much more of the film rings true to my experiences there and elsewhere in Europe than in the US, although I have lived in relatively analogous cities on each continent. I’ve experienced both the foul-mouthed homeless (although generally more anti-American sentiment than sexual) and the taunting gaggle of youths (minus the knife attack – although I was in a group but still felt very unsafe). France also has a bizarre-for-US-sensibilities obsession over headscarves. I can’t really speak to the “I’d need to talk to your wife” comment since I was unmarried at the time, and thankfully can’t speak to how reporting a sexual attack is handled.

      I thought it was bizarre that they didn’t have more ads with topless men, though. They are (were?) common at bus stops, etc.

      The shirtless runner, her comment about “lucky to have a cute daddy” comment, and the women checking out men walking by are all I can connect with based on my US experience, and even then the comment isn’t something I hear often or at least any more often than the same thing is said to my husband (I think).

      I think this video serves a distinct purpose, so I wouldn’t say that it missed it’s mark. But I’d be more interested to see a version that went through more routine events. I think there’s something to reversing the gender of the actors.

      • You know, I think you’re right about all this. I think my reaction has a lot to do with the context I’ve seen it in, and HuffPo’s headline. I’ve seen a lot of American women (who’ve lived only in US cities) posting it with the suggestion that this is what casual sexism looks like. I feel like in the US, street harassment, while present, is not nearly as pervasive or as explicit as in many other countries. I think what struck me was that if you go around claiming that this is what’s typical for a typical middle class woman in a typical American city, and that that’s what you mean when you talk about daily sexism, you discredit yourself because this is really fairly extreme. (Is there still a cop out there who talks to the young female assistant at his station? Sure. But do most men in the US today think this is totally fine workplace behavior? I really don’t think so.) It then makes it harder to get people’s attention when you want to talk about the kinds of sexism that really do exist because presenting this as the average American experience is really crying wolf.

        • Oh, yes, I agree with you on this. I hadn’t heard about this till you posted it. I don’t think this is really “casual sexism” at all! This is pretty blatant! And it’s much more representative of France and the Continent than the whole world I mean I think it’s an interesting way to have the conversation, by switching the genders in a video. But I think casual sexism in the US is much more *casual* and subtle than the things shown in this video, and that there are different experiences in the US still, based on region, COL, neighborhood, etc. and trying to say *this* video depicts an average experience is weird.

          I think in the US it is much less overt, which actually makes sexism hard to point out and have conversations about now in a way.

    • Baconpancakes :

      Can’t watch it since I’m at work, but just addressing the one point you made, yeah, I’ve had some really obscene things yelled at me on the street. Rarely from homeless guys, though. Usually from a group of dudes hanging out on a street corner. The really lewd ones were pretty standard, but the creepiest one was when I was wearing a knee brace, and a guy followed me for a half block offering to massage my leg.

      • oh yeah, and in both France and in South America literally *every* conversation I had with a male started with “are you married, do you have kids?” and continued with “do you ahve a boyfriend?” “when are you getting married?” “How old are you? You need to get moving if you want to have babies” etc etc… not exactly the same, but made those comments about where is your wife, etc really resonate.

        • Woods-comma-Elle :

          As an aside, I read in some cultural awareness article not long ago (which I now, of course, can’t find anymore) about how questions like ‘are you married’ are more acceptable in some cultures so whereas in, say US/UK, a male client whom you’ve just met asking you this in a business meeting would be make you uncomfortable, it would be totally acceptable ‘small talk’ elsewhere. Even though in those situations it isn’t sexist (it’s just like how in England we always ask about the weather!), it can be considered offensive because over here it often has a different undertone. So it can be a total minefield!

          Although I’ve definitely experienced the ‘hi, what’s your name, do you have a boyfriend’, there can be a different cultural threshold sometimes as you are more likely to be approached in that way in some countries than others (or by people from certain cultures). I’m not sure how much of it is sexism versus different emotional personal space (as often in these same cultures physical personal space makes my Nordic reserve boil over) and fewer reservations. Probably a bit of both.

          • Yeah, I get that a lot of it is cultural. But there is definitely a sexist aspect to it, because I also had conversations with women, and almost none of them immediately jumped to marital status and my age, and because I eavesdrop shamelessly and I never heard a male asking those same questions of male tourists that were also chatting in line/in the bar/on the bus, etc. Not that it never happens, but I’m being serious that I never had a conversation with a male in South America that did not include those questions within the first 2 minutes.

          • Woods-comma-Elle :

            Ok, I guess I have two points (and for the record, I think we agree on the fundamentals).

            1. In some cultures (now can’t remember which, but not France/South America, possibly China), asking about marriage is small talk and there is nothing s**ual about it. That is a whole separate issue to being asked that by dudes in the street.

            2. In other cultures, there definitely is something s**xual/emotional about it (ie they are interested in you because you are female and they are male and they like females), but whether that is a case of sexism or just being braver about approaching people you find attractive and that sort of thing comes easier or is culturally expected, I’m not sure, but I think probably a bit of both.

          • Woods-comma-Elle :

            It’s creeping towards midnight here, my brain capacity for the day is used up, hence I’m not sure I’m making my points very clearly!

          • Yeah, we basically agree on this, I do think cultural differences are important and should be taken into account.

            But I think it is objectively sexist when men see a woman and think “Marriage, babies, why are you not married, you should be married” is the only thing to talk about, but see a man and think “sports, hobbies, food, weather” are the things to talk about. It doesn’t mean they are bad people or are doing it deliberately because they hate women, but it is sexism. The acknowledgement of sexism doesn’t imply an immediate intent to oppress a specific woman. It is just an act that happens. In this case it is embedded in the institutions and the culture, and as a woman, i can not appreciate experiencing it, without demonizing or blaming the specific men who are doing it to me.

            Anyway, just putting my thoughts out there. ;o) Regardless of the video, you definitely succeeded in starting a convo, TBK! haha

          • Sydney Bristow :

            Zora, I can’t remember where I read it in the past month, but I read some commentary about the difference between obituaries for men and women. It was sparked by the obituary of a very impressive woman (its really bugging me thatI can’t remember who it was). The point of the criticism was that the first line of a woman’s obituary is far more likely to detail her marital status and children than a man’s obituary. I think of that sort of thing as casual sexism here.

            I’m waiting to watch the video until I get home. I’ve been catcalled a few times on the street and once when I was in high school a guy in the car next to me catcalled me and proceeded to follow me home then rapidly turn around and leave when I parked (I was so stupid to go home!). It hasn’t been a common occurrence for me but is something I’ve experienced.

          • Sydney Bristow :

            The obituary that sparked the controversy was the NYT’s obituary of Yvonne Brill (a rocket scientist).

  15. Ladies, if you need high-heeled boots in brown, there is a screaming deal at Land’s End right now. I haven’t bought their shoes before, but have heard good things. $29.99 and lots of common sizes left.

  16. Help - Used Car Post-Purchase Negotiation :

    So I’m in a strange situation today with a used car purchase, and not sure what to ask for from the dealer. I bought a newer, low-mileage used car last night – did the test drive, had a rather extensive negotiation, signed the paperwork, drove off home. The car was certified pre-owned, everything inspected & the deal included a 2-year/24000 mile warranty. After leaving the dealership, we drove around a bit more to get used to the car when the check engine light came on – but by that time the dealership/service dept. were closed. Called them first thing this morning, dropped it off & got a loaner – and the result is that the car needs a major repair (under warranty) and I won’t get it back for a week.

    It goes without saying that I’m pretty unhappy right now. I had the car for less than an hour before it broke! I’ve spoken with my salesman briefly and mentioned that we’re unhappy with this situation, would like them to make it right – but don’t really know what that would be, so reaching out to you ladies for ideas. I floated the possibility of adding an additional year of warranty, but it seems that won’t fly. Has anyone ever re-negotiated a purchase after the fact? What’s reasonable here? Knock down the purchase price a bit more? Return some of my down payment? I can rawr at them Godzilla-style & make them grovel, but that doesn’t improve my confidence in the car or turn it back into the car I was sold.

    • demand a full refund in the form of a credit so that you can pick another used car

      • Help - Used Car Post-Purchase Negotiation :

        But I actually really do like this car. Not a bad idea though, to suggest I’d like a refund/revoke the deal entirely/start all over with a different car – which has to have a cost & be a pain in the a$$ to them – unless they extend the warranty -which IS what I want now, and would help with maintaining confidence in the purchase. And keeping me as a happy customer.

        • Do you know how serious the problem is yet? Is it something that once the part is replaced there shouldn’t be ongoing issues with it or something that’s harder to fix and know it’s fixed? If the former, sounds like the timing just stinks but at least it’s under warranty & I’d probably not do too much, but if the latter, I like the idea of asking to start over – I think I’ve heard there are lemon laws in some states that let you act fast if something bad happens right away but I don’t know the specifics. Something to google.

    • East Coast Anon :

      The day after I purchased my current car (certified pre-owned), it started making a loud ticking noise. I took it back, they reapaired it, and all was well. It ended up being a significant, though not really major repair. If you really want/like the car, I say give them a chance to fix it.

  17. Anonymous :

    Random rant. I have been a lawyer for roughly four months, and my law school is already calling me on a regular basis for donations. Maybe I am biased because I hated my law school, but this is kind of ticking me off. I’m currently forking over a huge portion of my income to pay off student debt from the same law school that’s now calling me every other week asking for more money, less than a year after I graduated! It’s even harder to stomach when I know that many of the professors and administrators at the school are making significantly more money than I am. Ugh. I have an idea about how the school could free up some money…

    • I heard that alumni donations help law school rankings, theoretically increasing the value of your degree. So even if you only give $5, maybe it’s worth it?

    • Yes, they do this and it’s completely inappropriate. My law school still has only my “junk mail” email address and I only attend events I learn about through other avenues (my law school is local). Every time they call, ask them to remove your number from their calling list. I’d also complain to the Alumni relations dean (or as high up as you can get) AND the president/other relevant person on the alumni board. The president of my law school’s alumni club was a partner at the firm I was at, in my practice group. I brought this up to him at a casual happy hour and explained why it felt inappropriate (he didn’t realize the extent of student loans until I gave him numbers–the approximate total amount and monthly payment most of my class was facing). He convinced the law school to stop seeking donations for the first five(?) years after graduation.

      • Wildkitten :

        I also complained – they were asking me for money before I had a job – and was removed.

  18. Joanna Toews :

    [Reposting on the newer thread]

    Hi there, all…

    (Grand)parent help’s discussion yesterday touched a lot on not-so-great parents becoming wonderful grandparents. Wondering if any of you have experience/advice with abusive parents (hopefully) becoming wonderful grandparents?


    I’m currently 4.5 months pregnant and am thinking hard about my in-laws… my MIL in particular. She was brutally abused in all manner of ways as a child and has several (undiagnosed) intellectual and mental health disabilities. She was emotionally and physically abusive to my husband and SIL when they were growing up, to the point where the SIL landed in the hospital a couple times. FIL was more of a bystander, but considered the abuse to be acceptable discipline (born in the 1930s, rural blue-collar upbringing).

    Mr. Toews and SIL have reconciled with their mother at this point. They call their parents several times a week to keep in touch. Both have gone through therapy to deal with the past abuse. (FWIW, their parents are of the generational/cultural mindset where counselling is for “broken homes” and “sick minds,” so… yeah. No counselling for either of them.)

    SIL has two children in their teens, but they live in another province, so they haven’t had as much inperson contact with their grandparents as our kid likely will. They do have a very positive, affectionate relationship when they do see each other, FWIW.

    Thoughts? Anything would be helpful. Of course, I’m largely concerned with our kid’s emotional and physical well-being.