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Happy weekend, ladies! If you've perused the NAS at all, you know that leather jackets are HUGE for fall. There are vests! Moto jackets! Suede jackets! Jackets with shearling or fur details! Hooded leather jackets! Coated denim jackets that look like leather jackets! Sweater jackets with leather details! Yellow leather jackets that kind of remind me of Hilary Swank and the (horrible) movie version of Buffy the Vampire Slayer! My favorite iteration is the sort of drapey leather jacket with knit panels, seen here — at least for my own figure it seems more bust-friendly than the usual ones. (Here's a nice gray version on clearance, also.) And it doesn't hurt that this one is less than $70 in the sale — love it! It's available in black and red, sizes XS-XL, in regular, petite and plus sizes, for $65 — the price will go back up to $98 after the sale ends. KUT from the Kloth ‘Ana' Faux Leather Drape Front Jacket
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See all of our workwear picks from the NAS, as well as our shoe picks — lots of sizes left.
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Wedding Bells
What us the protocol of only having a *very small* reception and no ceremony? We are introverts and dont want to make a spectacle. So the plan is to get married just us then have a party later in this evening. It will be fully catered with an open bar for maybe 30 people. Will everyone be miffed the ceremony was private?
Anon2
I’ve been to a reception with no ceremony — the ceremony was just the bride/groom and immediate families. I didn’t think it was a big deal.
Anonymous
I think etiquette says you can invite people to the reception but not the ceremony, but you can’t do it the other way around (i.e. anyone at the ceremony HAS to be invited to the reception). I wouldn’t be “miffed” if a friend did this, but I would be pretty sad, especially if it was a close friend. I love witnessing the exchange of vows and, to me, a lovely, meaningful ceremony is as important to a wedding as good food and good music. A ceremony doesn’t have to be a “spectacle” – you can keep it really brief and have the officiant do all the talking. If you’re only having 30 people at the reception, you must be pretty close to them and I’m not sure why you wouldn’t want them witnessing the ceremony.
Anonymous
My reaction would be sadness as well. I love wedding ceremonies. I’d understand though and still happily attend the reception.
Lyssa
I basically agree with that, though I guess it wouldn’t hurt me too much if the ceremony was really and truly private. Could you just have the vows at the reception? You wouldn’t have to make a separate event out of it; just sort of “Welcome everyone. Now we’re going to do the vows.” (Heck, you could even do it both ways – have the actual vows ahead of time if you want the private moment, then re-do them for the party.)
But do what feels right to you. Your parents are probably the only ones likely to be really bothered by it (if they are and if that bothers you).
Ex
Sounds perfect!
Several in my circle and family have done this. Also common – small destination wedding for family, then party/reception for family/friends when you return.
Since there is no big wedding to plan, the event was much less stressful. And if people came from out of town, there was more freedom for unstructured gatherings.
Scarlett
I did a version of this – we eloped & then had a dinner party 6 months later for 50 people (immediate family & closest friends only). I’m sure there were people who were sad they weren’t at the ceremony/official wedding day, but the party seemed to smooth those feelings over & everyone calls that “our wedding” now. I think you do you for your wedding & personally, I loved having such an intimate wedding ceremony/experience. I couldn’t imagine saying my vows in front of a bunch of people, even close family & friends – it was way too personal for me.
Statia
+1 for this; we did something similar (a backyard BBQ wedding reception / housewarming party in our new house – requested no gifts, worded it as “just the gift of your company” or something similar clearly written on the invitations). We even showed our wedding video when someone asked if they could see it toward the end of the party. It was obvious that it was incredibly personal and intimate, as it showed both my husband and I were in tears and it truly was just the two of us. Everyone – even mother-in-law – was just fine. :) Or they faked it. Whatever!
MNF
I would separate the wedding and the party as much as possible.
Having been on both sides of this (i.e. as a guest invited to the 5 person ceremony, and a guest only invited to the party), it can be awkward when the VIP guests (the 3 extra people at the ceremony) start gushing about how wonderful the ceremony was to your second-class guests. It happened at both the weddings I went to where the small ceremony was followed by a bigger party and I was just standing on the side of the convo feeling awkward that the VIP guest couldn’t see that it was insensitive (“You should’ve been there, it was so wonderful and intimate, everyone important was there!”)
A day’s space (Friday night wedding, Saturday Party) might alleviate the issue. But also, do what you want.
Wedding Bells
There are no VIP guests. Just me and him.
MNF
haha – ok, so now you and your fiance just don’t tell anyone that it was so special and they totally missed out by not being there! Good luck with your wedding/plans/marriage!
lucy stone
Our best man did this when he got married and we weren’t miffed at all, just honored to be invited to celebrate. It was an awesome reception with their truly close friends.
Anonymous
Fwiw, as an introvert who is kind of awkward, I felt like the reception was much more of a spectacle than the ceremony. I hated having everyone watch and take pictures of our introduction and our first dance and my dance with my dad. I guess you could skip the dances but I still felt like EVERYONE was watching me for the entire reception and it made me uncomfortable. In the ceremony, I was standing up in front of everyone, but my husband and the officiant were up there with me too, so it didn’t feel like the focus was on me as much. I suppose if you fear public speaking, the vow recital might make you nervous. But for me small talk and being the center of attention are much worse than delivering a short speech, and I felt much more uncomfortable at the reception. Just something to think about.
small "weddings"
My friends who did what the OP suggests also had more Mellow parties. NOT classic “wedding” receptions. More like a private party/dinners at a restaurant private room or interesting locales. Usually smaller guest lists, no big flowers/bands etc… so the food was the focus, and the people.
Honestly, I enjoy those smaller gatherings much more. That’s just me.
And the bride is wearing something comfortable… not a wedding dress. Which makes it much less of a spectacle.
As an introvert, the idea of a public wedding/reception is just…. horrifying. Not my style at all.
Sydney Bristow
My husband and I are both introverts and he was terribly nervous about being up in front of everyone. I was a little nervous about it myself. Our wedding was about 60-70 people and the ceremony was performed by our best friends. My dad was on fainting patrol in the front row in case my husband passed out. Luckily none of that happened! It all went fine and I think it helped that our entire wedding was a really casual backyard BBQ kind of thing. Aside from the very short ceremony, the only other time we were the center of attention was for the 2 minutes we spent cutting the cake.
The best thing we did for ourselves was to schedule in a break for ourselves. We had an 11am ceremony followed immediately by the BBQ reception. Around 3 we left and took some more pictures then went to our hotel and took a nap before meeting whichever guests were up for the 4th of July fireworks celebration. It was part of a weekend long festival so everyone could head over there whenever they wanted and totally took the focus on us. Our scheduled nap time was awesome though to recover from being around so many people. Who we loved but as introverts that much social activity exhausts us.
OP, I think that having a private ceremony with just you and your husband and then a reception later is totally fine. I’d be a little sad to miss seeing it, but totally understand. I’d definitely be excited to be included for the celebration after. Best wishes!
ChiLaw
I did this. Married on a Thursday with the bare bare minimum of people attending (and then husband and I went to eat sushi alone, which was glorious), then a bigger open bar bash on Saturday night to celebrate the fact that we got married. One thing we did, was to let people close to us do a *thing* at the bash, if they wanted. My parents are musical, so they performed a thing, and someone else gave a toast, and we did parent/child dancing and a first dance as a married couple. My thinking was that, for people who wanted to see something wedding-ish, at least there was some structure at the party. But it was really key to us to keep the ceremony itself very private.
EB0220
This wouldn’t bother me at all as a guest.
Nancy Raygun
Hey. You don’t have to do anything you guys don’t want to do. We had a wedding that was more of a casual lunch with a bunch of family and friends. If you want to have a wedding party after your private ceremony, make sure people know to expect that. You don’t have to do any of the “wedding stuff” if you don’t want to. The people you invite will be there for you, not to see a first dance/bouquet throw/speech/whatever. Someone will probably be disappointed or confused, but it’ll be OK. Also, we’re introverts and my husband and I designed the whole thing so that we were only in front of people being looked at for 5 minutes. We also planned beforehand to take a private moment to decompress during the reception.
Anonymous
Maybe? I’d be livid to miss my child, sister, or best friends wedding. Do you care?
Wedding Bells
Its a private moment for me and my SO. I think its selfish that anyone would be mad. Getting married is about us and not them.
Anonymous
For many people it’s not just about the couple, it’s about joining two families so be prepared that some people may be upset even if you hope they would be supportive. I was happy that my cousin got to have the destination elopement that she wanted but my uncle was crushed that he didn’t get to walk her down the aisle.
Anonymous
You are conflating mad and sad. I don’t think it’s remotely selfish to be sad about not being invited to your child’s, sibling’s or best friend’s wedding. People expect to be there to mark those milestones in their loved ones’ lives.
lawsuited
Mad and sad are two sides of the same coin.
Anonymous
It’s not normally a private moment though. Throughout human history, people have exchanged vows in front of their families and friends and allowed those close to them to witness the beginning of their lives together. Do whatever you want, but don’t act like someone is a terrible person for being upset that you’ve decided to exclude them from this huge life event that loved ones traditionally attend.
small "weddings"
ugh.
Badlands
Throughout human history marriage was also a contract to transfer property or establish paternity, where public knowledge and acknowledgement of the event was useful for those ends. But my understanding is that only 2 witnesses were ever required to actually legalize the wedding. Just because it has happened throughout history, doesn’t mean its the ONLY way it has happened.
Sure, be disappointed to miss out on something you’d like to see, but being LIVID (angry) that you have not been invited to something that IS NOT ABOUT YOU, seems extreme and out of proportion with the situation.
OP – weddings are the one of the events where any one decision you make will be considered proper by half the people and tacky or a major breach of etiquette by the other half. So you do whatever seems proper TO YOU to celebrate the event.
Anonymous
Why ugh? I think she should do this if it makes her happy, but I also think it’s not accurate to describe weddings as private moments and it’s unnecessary to call her friends and family selfish for wanting to a part of it.
Anonymous
This type of response is probably why OP is concerned. If the OP has different feelings about what the ceremony means to her (a private thing), then that is beautiful and something that I would hope people could honor, instead of judging it. OP – I think your approach sounds beautiful and hope that the people who love you will celebrate with you for your celebration of what is meaningful for you – rather than being upset that your ideas are different than that they think you “should” do.
Care
I don’t think of it as a private moment between the couple but as a statement to those people that are most important to us. The guests at my wedding ceremony were witnesses to the commitment so that they could help hold us to it and affirm that they would support that commitment. The officiant spoke to them about that role and that mattered to me.
I think it would be fine if you are uncomfortable with a larger group there, but I would really consider whether there is anyone that you want to be a part of that commitment with you.
Anonymous
I’m the opposite. I think of it as something you do because its easier to be married for legal reasons (home ownership, medical decisions etc) that has nothing to do with commitment. I’d be just as committed to my spouse if we weren’t married. I also have 2 kids and wouldn’t care if they had a private wedding and I wasn’t there. It’s their decision, not mine. I know my view is in the minority though.
Anonymous
In the Jewish tradition, there is something called yichud, where after the ceremony the couple takes a private moment to themselves. For us, this provided the perfect balance of making a commitment before all of our loved ones, but also setting aside time to mark the significance of the day by ourselves. You could do something similar even if you’re not Jewish. (Historically, the couple would consummate the marriage at this time, and we didn’t want anyone thinking about us doing *that*, so we opted to be in a room with a glass wall – we had privacy but everyone could see we were fully clothed. :P)
Never too many shoes
I say this as gently as possible, OP: I hear what you are saying and would have said it myself when I was in the process of getting married. But now, as a parent, I cannot even imagine the sadness that I would feel if my son excluded me from that moment in his life. For me, the best part of all weddings is that feeling of being part of a community of people that love someone and want them to be happy and for them to truly know that. Your marriage is about you and your partner, but perhaps your wedding can be about a little bit more than that.
lawsuited
Also, your marriage is about your families, your friends, your work, your hobbies, everything that makes up two lives lived side-by-side. It’s about a lot more than just the two of you.
Goatsgoatsgoats
OP it’s your wedding. Others may want to celebrate with you and they can do that at the reception. You don’t owe your marriage to anyone but your spouse. The marriage isn’t about your family, it’s about you and your spouse, so do what makes you two happy!
Anonymous
+ 1000. If marriage means a joining of families to you, then by all means include them. But if it means a joining of two people to you, then by all means do something just you two. Either way is beautiful and valid.
Statia
Do what you as a couple want to do. MIL wasn’t very excited that hubby and I eloped. I waited until about 18 months after we were married and told her that I knew our choice wasn’t her preference. I told her that I was very sorry that our decision to elope caused her hurt feelings but that even after all this time, I still felt it was the best decision for us. I gave her a hug and told her I loved her and am lucky to be her daughter in law.
Oh… and once you have a baby, you will immediately see their magical powers to help family members forget everything that isn’t related to snuggly baby-ness. :) I’m pretty sure she could care less now that she’s (finally) a grandma.
Need to Improve
You certainly don’t owe people anything, nor do they have a right to be there. But they have the right to be sad. A random acquaintance may not, but if you are close to your family or have close friends I can see why they would be sad. Not because it’s “about them,” but because it’s a wonderful moment to share with your loved ones. That said, if you don’t want to do it, don’t do it.
Senior Attorney
You get to do what you want and they get to feel how they feel, and I’m sure it will fine.
Anonymous
Right. As long as you are ok with your mom hating you and thinking you are a selfish bitch go right ahead.
Anonymous
If my mom was that kind of person she wouldn’t be invited anyway
Heather
Hi, Mum. You’re the reason I’ll never get married!
anon
We did this. Got married at the San Francisco City Hall with just 2 witnesses. Hired a limo for 3 hours to drive around, take pictures and drink champagne. Then rented out the patio at our favorite restaurant and had dinner with 30 people. Had a blast and nobody was awkward.
Wildkitten
SF City Hall is the most beautiful place to have a secular elopement. Good choice.
Scarlett
Agreed!! That’s where I eloped!! :)
KT
My “ceremony” was 10 minutes, then we went right into reception.
The idea of standing up there in front of people made me nauseous, but people seemed really disappointed when I even hinted at not having a public ceremony, so a super brief version was our compromise.
Anon for This
Can we talk about drinking/when someone may have a drinking problem?
I work a relatively high stress job but outside of work, I’m single/childfree so my social life tends to revolve around hanging out with friends and drinking. It used to be in moderation a bit more but now I’m finding I go out and rarely have just one glass of wine or one drink. I never thought this was an issue when I was with my friends but I’ve noticed lately I’ve been doing the same thing at family/work events.
I can still manage myself and I don’t think I come across as drunk as I am (although I probably don’t really know that for sure). But still, I wonder if I should be concerned. I’m having fun meeting friends or dates after work (and manage to work quite well with a bit of a hangover) and I’m worried I won’t have much of a social life. Things get interesting after a few drinks – that’s when I tend to meet new people and I feel like a more fun, better version of myself.
Anonymous
Two things you wrote are very concerning “I don’t think I come across as drunk as I am” and “after a few drinks – […]I feel like a more fun, better version of myself”.
It does sound like you may have a problem. Try limiting drinking to specific days/times to get used to socializing without alcohol. Order a diet coke or tonic water with lime. Stick with a one drink max at work events. If this is scary or not possible for you, you may need to seek help.
Anonymous
This is all such a tough question, and I have had similar thoughts about whether I overindulge.
I will say, though, that thinking alcohol makes you a more fun, better version of yourself is not concerning to me in and of itself. I mean, that’s what alcohol does. People have felt that way about alcohol for centuries. It’s like saying alcohol makes you more courageous.
Anon
Yes, as someone who is both shy and an introvert, alcohol definitely helps me come out of my shell. But I don’t feel like I NEED it. I think maybe that’s a line? It’s one thing to feel like it enhances your social time, and another thing to feel like you must have it.
Anonymous
Yeah, I don’t even really drink but I tend to agree with anon at 2:49. I’m not sure about “better” but I think everyone feels like a more fun version of themselves when slightly tipsy. I think if you had said something like “I only feel like myself when drinking” that would be a lot more problematic. But if alcohol wasn’t fun, nobody would drink.
Anonymous
Why don’t you try to cut back and see how it goes? To me, that’s one of the clearest signs of a problem: when you find it difficult to cut back or give it up. But yeah, if you’re regularly going to work with a hangover that sounds a little troubling to me.
Never too many shoes
One of my doctor friends recommended that you use the “CAGE” questions to help yourself think about alcohol use:
•Have you ever felt that you should Cut down on your drinking?
•Have people Annoyed you by criticizing your drinking?
•Have you ever felt bad or Guilty about your drinking?
•Have you ever had a drink first thing in the morning to steady your nerves or get rid of a hangover (Eye opener)?
If you answer yes to two or more of these in respect of the last year, you might wish to seek some further advice.
Anonymous
That’s helpful but I do wonder about the first one and the third one to an extent. If you’re looking at those quesitons, you’ve obviously already answered the first one yes, so it’s a foregone conclusion and you’re already one in the hole.
Nancy Raygun
One #3, some of us feel guilty about everything (Hi!). You might also be one of those people. I went through a period where I drank and felt like you (no eye-opener though) and it was people I have an anxiety disorder, a stressful job, and I was trying to take the edge off. Drink less for a couple weeks and see how you feel. Replace alcohol with another activity for a bit and see if your POV on this changes. It may be that you are not coping with your stress well and drinking is a smokescreen for that.
Anonymous
Agreed. As an ex-mormon I definitely would say yest 1, 2, and 3, but that’s because even having a single glass of wine at a celebratory dinner is considered very sinful in the religion of my upbringing and the religion to which my family, many of my friends, and most of my community still adheres. It’s been hard for me to figure out what is a healthy relationship with alcohol, especially because it does help me a lot with my (diagnosed and medicated, but not 100% under control) social anxiety.
Wildkitten
Agreed. I want to cut down on my drinking to save money and calories, but no way in h*ll do I need a drink when I wake up.
anon
It sounds like you want to prove to yourself that you don’t have a drinking problem (or find out if you do) while still having a normal social life. In a similar situation I decided I was allowed to drink every other day. I was still able to go out with friends and have a glass of wine and having dry days proved to me that I was able to abstain. In time, I naturally drank less and gave up on dry days.
Maudie Atkinson
I abstain from drinking during Lent largely for this reason. Though I am a person of faith, the Lenten fast is less of a religious exercise and more of an opportunity for me to have a gut check about the role alcohol plays in my social life and to evaluate whether I am abusing it. Coming from a family of addicts, I really need that gut check. In that season, I make an effort to still go out, be social, and not drink to show myself it’s possible.
Maybe try a month or so of abstaining and see how you feel? FWIW, this is also the recommendation of the organization Moderation Management and the third step in their nine-step process. As someone very much acculturated to the disease theory of addiction family and friends in recovery, I haven’t reconciled how I feel about MM, but it is a thing that exists.
Anonymous
Trust. You are coming off exactly as drunk as you are.
Anonymous
Buy the book of alcoholics anonymous and read it. If you see yourself in there, go to a meeting. I did.
Catlady
Agree. Alcoholism is the disease of more. You can go to an open AA meeting and you don’t have to identify yourself as an alcoholic if you don’t want to.
AlAnon
This is a good point. A family member once described it as he could never stop at just one beer. I think there is a difference between being a habitual drinker and a problem drinker. For example, there are certain restaurants where I almost always have a drink – but I also usually order the same entree, so it’s more of a this is where I get the steak and a glass of red wine than I have to have a drink with dinner situation. As someone with multiple alcoholics in the family, I don’t think just asking questions about your drinking means you have a problem. I’m pretty conscious about how much/often I drink because I don’t want to go down that path, but am also very certain I don’t currently have a problem (rarely ever want more than one drink and don’t really miss it when I don’t drink for a while). But it does sound like OP is starting to drink perhaps more in quantity and frequency than she would like, and regularly going into work hung over is definitely a warning sign for me even if you are able to work efficiently while hung over.
Anon
This is tangential to your main point, but I really identify with your worries about not having a social life if you try to limit your drinking. I moved to a large city two years ago and have been amazed ever since by the extent to which all of my social activities here revolve around drinking in a way that they didn’t where I grew up. This may or may not be due to my group of friends or life stage, but seriously. It’s even to the point where movie theatres are mostly licensed around here and so even something like catching a matinee involves drinking now. Same with brunch. Drinking in parks is a HUGE cultural thing too. It’s starting to worry me that everything I do socially revolves around alcohol because I feel “left out” if I decide not to drink.
Trish
I have been sober 21 years and I have no problem with a social life! I can enjoy my friends at happy hour, I just leave if and when shots come out. Plus, I was amazed at how many people really don’t drink that much once I got sober.
E
Late to the party, but this. I made a decision to cut back on my drinking (2 drinks of an evening) and realized that actually a lot of people only have one or two drinks when they go out. I wasn’t the only one who slammed 4 or 5 every time we went out for happy hour, but those of us who did were in the minority. Much more common were the folks who were only having a couple.
Statia
Here are my litmus tests for recognizing a potential alcohol problem:
– I independently have the thought that “gee, I should cut back on my drinking” or I feel guilty about drinking
– I get annoyed if someone else says to me “gee, you’re such a lush!”
In my experience, when I drink regularly (every night at dinner, etc), it’s easy to keep drinking more and more. Then suddenly it just kind of creeps up on me and I’m drinking half or 3/4 bottle of wine (usually with the excuse of “oh it’s only two or three glasses”). As soon as I meet one of the criteria above (either I should cut back on the drinking, I feel guilty about it, or someone half-teasingly says something about my alcohol consumption), I take a breather from wine for a while.
As someone else mentioned, there is a difference between habit and problem. You may be at the stage where you’re recognizing that this is an unhealthy habit and are in total control to turn it around. Some things I do:
1- Only drink socially. Don’t keep wine in the house
2- Don’t drink alone
3 – Drink a glass of water or seltzer before and between each alcoholic drink
4- Order a very expensive glass of wine and try to totally enjoy it, and fully experience it with all senses. For a while I had an app where I kept track of various wines I tried and it made it a more special experience.
5- Order spritzers
6 – Volunteer to be designated driver
7 – write down all the calories you’re saving by not drinking (I hate going to the gym, so this is particularly effective for me…. liquid workouts!!)
If you find that you want to turn it around but aren’t physically able to, it’s time to get help.
Trish
Statia, when you are in a cut back phase, do you still enjoy yourself. Most alcoholics cannot control AND enjoy drinking.
Mariah
Ask someone who knows you well, who spends time with you when you’re drinking, and who you trust to be honest. If you know that the person either has personal experience with alcoholism or a personal history of dealing with others with alcoholism, even better. If they don’t drink, even better. Other people often see that something is a problem before you yourself see it. And if they tell you it’s a problem, /take them seriously/, because that’s not an easy thing to tell someone.
I’ve had multiple people ask me if they think they drink too much. I don’t drink at all (used to, wish I could still, my body can’t tolerate it due to a number of health problems and medications I’m on), and so I’m always fully aware of how others are behaving when they’ve been drinking, because there’s no filter of alcohol for me to think “Oh, she’s just having fun! Shooottttss!” I tend more to think “Wow, he’s had seven beers and he’s sloppy right now,” or “I’m not sure she can get home okay,” or “Every time I’ve hung out with them in the past 6 months at night they’ve gotten too drunk to function.” My dad is a recovering alcoholic, so I’m super attuned to the signs of intoxication, and I’ll be honest if someone asks me. I’ve also had the “I’m worried about your drinking” conversation with someone.
Ask someone. Take what they say to heart.
Wildkitten
I’ve asked myself this question so many times.. I know I *should* cut back on my drinking (empty calories, spent dollars) but I don’t feel *shame* about how much I drink. I do what is right for me.
I did freak out that I was drinking too much last year, and it ended up I was just depressed and needed low-dose antidepressants. Depression and anxiety are two heads of the same coin, and I was really worried about my drinking until I got help for depression and realized that my drinking is fine.
KT
The red flags for me were that you are doing this at work/family events–that’s a recipe for disaster. And if you are going to work fairly regularly with a bit of a hangover, that’s concerning.
It’s possible to be a high functioning alcoholic–and it sounds like right now, even if you are not at that stage, you do think you “need” drinks to feel like a fun version of yourself. That’s something to really look into.
b
I’m in a similar place in life as you: late-20s, single, homeowner, high-stress job. When I first moved from a smaller-outstate private college to a fairly major metro area in the same state after college, I had a lot of connections in the city and wanted to strengthen them, which turned into HAPPY HOUR! Every night! Sometimes two or three in a night! And like you, I would go to work just a little (one in a while, a lot) hungover, and then do it all again. While I typically didn’t embarrass myself, I definitely had two or three nights I really regret to this day.
I had two realizations. The first came when I was reading, of all things, George W. Bush’s Decision Points. At the beginning of the book, he reflects on how he realized he was an alcoholic when he looked back at every day for several months, and couldn’t pinpoint a single day when he hadn’t had a drink. Not always drunk, but beers at a BBQ, or a glass of something to take the edge off the day at night, combined with days of heavier drinking. My veins seriously went icy and I started flipping through days in my mind and realized that while I could maybe pick out a few totally sober days, I was going headlong in that direction. The real, final kicker was: I got sick of sitting on my butt at a bar. Is it shocking that you need several glasses of wine to make yourself feel more fun and vibrant when literally all you’re doing is sitting. in. a. bar. (or on a patio)? I also realized these happy hour and drinking buddies weren’t all real friends who were making me happy. Some were, but not most of them. Today, I’ve cut out about 60% of those people and I’m still left with 15-20 people I’m incredibly close to, and connections to several groups I can opt into on occasion.
It’s incredibly empowering to realize you can have a ton of fun outside of the four walls of a bar or restaurant. Figure out which of your friends are inclined to be active, and go for bike rides, walks, to the lake or ocean, kayaking, rock climbing, etc. I do still see my friends on weeknights and we do a lot of cycling, swimming and walking – and we definitely have an occasional beer or glass of wine when we’re done, we earned it! On the weekends, we’ll do day trips and active things, go to concerts and shows, definitely day-drink, but rarely do I drink so much during the course of the day or night that I can’t drive myself home. We take vacations and go on adventures together. I’m a significantly happier (and more interesting) human being now that I’m out in the world doing things with people who are invested in experiences.
Look, I firmly stand behind “you do you” and Amy Poehler’s motto: “good for you! not for me!”, but I hope you can take something from my experiences. If you’re serious about asking the question you put out into the world, I think you might already know the answer.
Anon
Trust yourself, if you have to ask, there’s probably a reason. See if you can not drink at some events. If it turns out you can’t, talk to someone before things get bad.
over it
Ladies, commiseration, please. I cannot. take. the singlehood. anymore. I’ve done all the volunteering! and gratitude! I can do. And yet — I’ve been ghosted, I’ve been dumped, I’ve been treated exactly the opposite of how I treat others. I am generally an extroverted, happy person, and I am walking around with a smile but so much pain. I try to focus on how awesome I am at my job, how much relative privilege I enjoy, how horrible things are happening in this country and elsewhere and I really need to gain some perspective because MY LOVE LIFE IS NOT THE END OF THE WORLD. (The conventions may or may not spell out the end of the world, but I digress.)
I go on a decent number of first dates, and every month, second and third dates. I am naturally a romantic and fall easily in love, so I have tried to be more cautious. Then I have to balance that with everyone saying it will be easy. If I hear one more person say that she “just knew” from the first date, I will scream.
I go to therapy on the regular, but even my therapist seems bemused as to why I’m single. When I didn’t trust that position, I’ve gotten second opinions from other counselors – no luck or explanation.
I am 29 and so done. Please please give me hope.
Anon
I’m really sorry that you feel this way! You are certainly not alone and there is no reason to give up hope.
Here’s what helps me:
1. I remember that I could meet someone anywhere at any time. This has actually happened to me before. I met my last serious boyfriend at a work conference that I wasn’t even supposed to go to. When I woke up, I had absolutely no idea I was about to meet a man who’d be one of the loves of my life. You never know. Sometimes, when I get tired of all of the active dating effort, I just remind myself that it’s ok to take a break and who knows what might happen anyways?
And 2. This is about a million times more important – I work to make my life feel full without a partner. I know, this is hard advice to hear and I used to hate it when people would say it to me. But when I have lots of hobbies (that aren’t intended on helping me meet guys but instead in just bringing me joy) I generally find myself obsessing less about not having a partner.
I get it, though.
Anon
Also, stop asking people for opinions on why you’re single! For most people, they’re single because they haven’t met someone yet and for only that reason. Not because they’re lacking something, not because there’s anything wrong with them. Being single isn’t an indication of your worth or sanity or attractiveness or how interesting you are.
OP here
Sorry, I should have explained — it was a professional opinion, since therapy is often recommended, and I have pursued it with decent success in other areas of my life. I don’t think I’ve ever asked others why I’m single, because I cannot expect anyone else to know, but I have tried to introspect via therapy to figure out my past issues/mistakes. It has worked in literally every other area of my life.
Anon
Op, it sounds like you’re doing all the right things! Introspect, sure, but treat yourself with kindness too. We’ve all made mistakes and have issues (hah). The fact you’re even working on yours makes me think you’d be a great partner. Good luck out there!
Anonymous
Be open to someone that isn’t your type. I used to date dark haired dog owners and ended up married to a left wingish blonde cat guy who still can’t believe he married a lawyer.
The ‘just knew’ first date people also make me crazy. Just keep living your best life and being open to new people and it will happen for you.
Statia
I second this. I went through so much agony trying to “make it work” with guys that I thought were my type. I woke up one day and decided I was going to only date guys that weren’t my type and I would carefully analyze the date afterward to gauge the way I felt toward them (either positive or negative).
Most importantly, I would think about WHY I felt positively or negatively about them.
I met some really interesting men. I learned a lot about myself, too. I found that overall I became more open and less judgemental. And, since I was pretty much open to dating anyone (notice I said date anyone — not sleep with anyone!!) I was not sitting at home very often. If I wasn’t feeling it with a particular guy after a date, guess what – if / when he called, I could just tell him the truth about how I felt, because I had thought about my true feelings after the date. And I had nothing to lose for just saying it one way or the other. It was liberating!
I met my husband while doing this little experiment, and I can tell you that I would have NEVER given him a shot prior to being open to different types. I can also tell you that it took me four dates to figure out how I felt toward him – he was just so different, I couldn’t figure out what it was about him that was bringing up such a mixed reaction in me. So I just kept dating him. And then I realized – wow, this guy is so not my old type but is absolutely perfect for me.
Anonymous
Yay! Open Thread’s! I love Open Thread’s and these leather jacket’s! Of course, I would ONLEY wear these on weekend’s to causal affair’s.
As for the OP, hug’s. There is NOTHING wrong with you. I am in the same boat. I have had boyfreind’s that have disapointed me, but I am happy w/o a guy slobbering all over the place like my Alan did. You must look to yourself for strength and Valideation. You are a sucessful woman and can RAWR with the best of us! The onley reason I am so anxius for a man is b/c I need to have a baby, and must use a man to impregenate me. I am lookeing to artificieal insemination so that I do NOT have a slobbering guy around to tell me how to raise my child, or otherwise soil my bathroom and wool carpeting with his beer, urine and other gross niceties. FOOEY!
But in your case, you are ONLEY 29, so you have a number of years b/f your egg’s get stale. Make sure you are NOT acting as a doormat for men b/c if all you do is give them the sex they want, you will NOT get married. Once you know you like the guy, things can be different, but in the mean time, relax and a guy will appear magicaly and sweep you off your feet as long as you take care of your health and body. Try to work out so that your tuchus is not big (like mine) and men will be very happy. Best of luck to you and do NOT worry! YAY!!!!!
bridget
You’re only 29.
Dating in your early 30s gets easier, I promise. One of the big things is you get a better sense of who other people are, and you tend to not waste time or emotional energy on them. Men also grow up and start wanting something more permanent.
LAJen
As someone who is early-mid 30s, I will say this has not been true for me. It’s not easier precisely because I DO know who I am (and who I am and am not looking for), know how to keep myself open to options outside what I might have considered my zone of interest previously, and it’s STILL not happening.
OP, I have no advice, just commiseration. I have so many amazing single girlfriends, and we’ve all been trying forever, keeping open, making sure we have full lives that do not depend on men, and most of us still have not lucked into finding a partner. So, nothing helpful to say, but just know you’re not alone, there’s nothing wrong with you, and it’s just a matter of luck.
That doesn’t provide any consolation for me either, believe me.
Snick
Not sure this is what you are looking for, but the idea that coupledom is the key to happiness is a myth. There are millions of unhappy people in bad relationships out there (and few people talk about it if they’re in one). A difficult relationship can overshadow a lot of other positives (great job, etc). I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been treated so poorly by dates, but you’ve dodged a lot of bullets. A bad date or a disappearing act is better than a bad long-term relationship.
Veronica Mars
I really hate when people say this to single people. Obviously it’s possible to coupled and unhappy. No one wants that. But to say, “Hey, you could actually be horribly unhappy here too” isn’t helpful. There are a million ways we could be horribly unhappy in life. We know. It’s like saying, “Even though the right house hasn’t come along, and you’re not a homeowner yet, you shouldn’t be AS sad about it because houses can get termites or burn to the ground, and can ruin your life financially.” That doesn’t negate the desire. We understand the pitfalls. Why can’t people just say, “I’m sorry, that really sucks. It’s normal to want to be in a happy relationship. You’re still a great person and I hope you find what you’re looking for in life.”?
Veronica Mars
This is not a jab at you, Snick, I’m just SO tired of hearing people talk about why relationships aren’t even that great, etc.
OP here
Thanks, Snick and V. Mars (my all time favorite character). Yes, I agree with V. Mars, and yet I also see the wisdom of Snick’s comment.
It’s not just casual dates — it’s also been a relationship or two that was horrific at the end, leaving me and anyone who observed it shell-shocked. No one saw it coming until the end, so it would have been hard to leave a “bad relationship.”
I’m rambling a bit, but it’s been a long time since someone treated me as gently as I try to treat everyone else, and it might just be my awful big city which I can’t leave for the foreseeable future, or some other factor.
Shouldn’t I be getting BETTER at this as I get older? Seems like the relationships of my younger days were far more playful and loving and kind. My friends still describe me in those adjectives, so if I haven’t changed, what’s going on? Where are the happy, loving men??
Snick
OK, “I’m sorry, that really sucks. It’s normal to want to be in a happy relationship. You’re still a great person and I hope you find what you’re looking for in life.” Sorry for getting it all wrong. My point was that she might be putting too much emphasis on a relationship as the holy grail that will bring her happiness. It’s not.
OP here
Not at all. Thank you for your perspective, and thanks to all the other commenters. I definitely understand how my post came across, and believe me, this is not my all-consuming, every day preoccupation. It is just the one thing I cannot seem to change, even when I seek (and occasionally find) balance everywhere else.
Snick
OP, you sound like a kind, smart, and generally well-adjusted person who has had a stretch of bad luck on the dating front. I hope that changes for you soon.
Anonymous
A good relationship, though, is the cure. I used to be the op. I am totally happier after the long search ended. Her struggle is real. It took me quite a few years to make it through, and I had to take data my breaks for sanity reasons. Not sure what my point is, since nothing I can say will do anything for her. But yeah, many people can relate.
Sam
You are only 29 my dear. You have such a wonderful life ahead of you, and the path is wide open. Don’t focus on this one area of your life. Try to get out there and live life. Think about being 90 and looking back and laughing at your 29 year old self who was so worried about her love life. It will all pass.
Anon
Do you ghostwrite the E. Jean column for Elle perchance? This is exactly her tone and words…every month.
LAJen
She has already said ways in which she’s getting out and living life…again, this type of comment just isn’t helpful, though it no doubt comes from a very good place and is well intentioned.
Amelia Earhart
I’m turning 29 this year and could be you exactly, minus the good number of dates.
I find I’m struggling to meet dates. I’ve tried Match and OkCupid and Bumble and Tinder. Conversation fades out or matches don’t respond back to a first message. I don’t know if my profile content makes me sound like an a**hole or if I’m just not desirable. It’s disheartening even though I know a mate/relationship isn’t the be all/end all.
Anon
It’s disheartening no doubt, but probably neither of those are true!
OP here
Have you had multiple friends critique your profile? My friends insisted on doing this, and while I resisted at first, I learned a lot. For example, I have an offbeat sense of humor, but my jokey pictures were apparently offputting. Honestly I attribute the high (one of my friends tells me it’s unusual) level of “attention” I get to the photos my friends selected. I refuse flatly to feature my physical assets more prominently (and I do not respond to guys who make a show of theirs), but I do make sure that I appear both engaged and relaxed in various pictures, and of course that is when your true beauty shines through. Cut the fake smile/overly posed with an angled arm/millions of friends so it’s confusing which one is you stuff, and I assure you that you will get good responses. Although clearly I have no advice on following through from that point on haha.
anon a mouse
My suggestion is to get comfortable with the fact that there are no guarantees. You can want a relationship, and a family, but that doesn’t mean it will happen. I’d focus on genuinely enjoying the life you have now (and not just feeling obligated to volunteer or show gratitude).
At the end of the day, the only constant in our lives is ourselves. You can be happy with the hand you’re dealt or not. Right now you’re not, and there are no guarantees that hand will change. You will enjoy life more if you can find a way to be happy with what you have.
anon a mouse
I want to add that I very much hope that you get what you want.
Mpls
+1 – This is where I am at. All I can control is me and that is the only person who I am guaranteed to live with for the rest of my life. I can pursue career goals, life goals, relationship goals, but I am guaranteed nothing and owed nothing (except for the paycheck at the end of the work week).
So much of life is logic and making rational decisions, but the spark of a relationship isn’t. I’m just trying to just enjoy the process of meeting people for now. For me, it helps that I have a really good group of girlfriends, married and not.
Dulcinea
Unfortunately, have to agree here. It genuinely sucks when you want something you can’t have. And ,the reason you “can’t” have a relationship (if that turns out to be the case) could be just plain bad luck. It’s much easier to say “learn to be happy with the life you have” than it is to do it, by far….and yet, I think that is what you have to do. Not by minimizing your feelings by comparing them to the atrocities going on in the world, but by allowing yourself to recognize that this IS important, it’s normal and natural to feel this way, and yet it is also something that is ultimately out of your control.
Now a lot of people will say something along the lines of, they finally met someone when they learned to love themself or when they stopped looking and I’m sure there is truth to that. But it’s also just plain luck and some people are unlucky.
AttiredAttorney
We are in the same boat. One thing that I’ve found that makes it easier is to make sure I have single friends with a similar outlook/position in life. The support network of people who are going through the same thing and feeling similarly about it as you is key. The advice, commiseration, and support I get from my coupled friends is just different than that I get from my similarly situated friends, and I think both are important.
Anon
I’m not currently single, but I’m in a situation where I don’t have something that I want and where I also don’t have much control over the outcome other than what I’m already doing. I read here in a comment about uncertainty that “Life can only be understood backwards, but it has to be lived forward” and I basically just repeat that to myself as a mantra on a daily basis, knowing that one day (aka one/three/eight/twenty years from now) I will have an understanding of what I learned and gained from this uncertain ‘middle’ part of my life. It sucks (oh, how it sucks!), but I’m also certain that I’m growing a little bit by not having what I want right now, and that this will make me better and wiser down the road.
I was also single for an extended period of time when I didn’t want to be, and I couldn’t understand why (I was literally “that great single girl” that got set up with everyone’s coworker/cousin/coworker’s cousin’s neighbor and it never worked out, leading me to feel even worse, like I had some secret defect that no one could figure out). It took some time and a lot of bad dates and false starts, but I eventually met my now husband and it all worked out. Keep trying and taking breaks/time for yourself when you need it (dating can be so discouraging). I also made peace with the fact that for a period of time, I was going to be alone (maybe forever), even though it wasn’t what I wanted. Once I started to get more comfortable with where I was in my life, I met my husband, which I think is a combination of coincidence and the fact that I was probably sending off some subconscious “I’m perfectly content and okay in my own life” vibes.
Long comment short = it’s rough and unfair and I’m sorry, but I’m highly confident that this is not your forever.
January
Like many others here, I feel the same way, and I haven’t found the right one yet, either. Life isn’t fair.
It is hard. It’s good that you’re trying, and I think the ability to fall in love easily is probably a good quality, even if it doesn’t feel that way right now.
Sheryl Sandberg wrote about telling a friend that she wanted her late husband, and her friend responded, “Option A isn’t available. So let’s kick the sh– out of Option B.” I don’t mean to trivialize the pain of being suddenly widowed at a young age. But, if you’d prefer to have a partner, and that’s Option A, it isn’t available to you right now (emphasis on right now – your situation could change tomorrow, for all any of us know). How are you going to make the most of Option B?
There's still hope
My husband and I met when we were 37 and got married when we were 40. It was the first engagement and marriage for both of us. Before we started seeing each other, it had been 4-5 years since either of us had a serious, long term relationship with anyone and 2-3 years since either of us had gone out on a date. Both of us had given up and were resigned to being single. Our meeting was random and we weren’t set up by anyone or out looking to meet our future spouse. It was completely unexpected. This June 5th was our 12th wedding anniversary and the 15th anniversary of the day we met/our first date. I know it’s easy for me to say now and it many sound corny but I believe things will happen when they are meant to happen.
LAJen
Thank you for this–I find the most helpful stories about women who did find a partner later in life (especially where, as here, the speaker is aware that simply saying “it will happen when it’s meant to” isn’t all that encouraging). The story itself conveys that message and is perhaps the best source of comfort.
There's still hope
Thank you. I understand where the OP (and everyone else with similar posts) is coming from. I felt the same way and I know how it feels. I do believe things happen when they are meant to, but I remember what it felt like to hear that when I was still single. I wanted to do my best to show that it did happen for me (even when I was “older” and had stopped looking or hoping) but I didn’t want to sound patronizing or preachy, because after being there myself it was the last thing I wanted.
LAJen
You nailed it. :-)
Same boat
Except I’m 33. And want biological children. The book “27 Wrong Reasons You’re Single,” which someone here recommended, really helped me. The gist is basically what everyone is saying here — you’re not doing anything wrong, you shouldn’t change at all, you just don’t really have much control over whether you find someone or not. Most of life is pure randomness and luck, but the luckiest thing that happened to us (winning the “birth lottery” when we were born in a developed country, with running water, electricity, food, housing, safety, adequate medical care, etc.) isn’t something we think about that often or appreciate that much. It’s particularly hard to be single as an “overachieving chick” because we’re used to believing (and for most of us, experiencing!) that you can achieve many things if you work hard enough. Unfortunately meeting the right person is not one of those things. It’s just luck. Many people will give you well-meaning advice about what to “do” about it (the 27 reasons in the book) that will just leave you feeling like shit because at the end of the day they all suggest you’re doing something wrong. And you’re not. You just haven’t been lucky in this one (very big) thing in life. You’ve been lucky in other things. It’s hard because there are some people who have been lucky in lots of ways AND have met the love of their life, so why couldn’t that be you? What’s worked for me is (1) trying to accept that I might not meet that person, (2) allowing myself to be sad and upset about it (as opposed to listening to all of the bullshit about how there are unhappy couples out there and you need to find happiness alone etc.), and (3) making the best of my life otherwise (i.e. kicking the shit out of Option B). The author eventually embraced concepts from Buddhism as a way of dealing with the feelings of uncertainty/lack of control, which has been helpful for me as well. Hopefully it also helps knowing there are lots of us out there. :)
LAJen
And thank you for this–you are basically me, to a T.
Polly Pepper
I’m in the same situation, but at 39, I’m probably living your worst-case scenario. As I get older, my dating pool continues to shrink and it gets harder and harder to find friends who have time to be my friend. Seconding the others’ advice to try to live the best life you can, because that’s really all you can do. Maybe you’ll meet someone and get married, but maybe you won’t and will spend the rest of your life alone. If the latter, do you really want to waste the rest of your life by being miserable and pining over what you don’t have? That would be such a shame.
OP here
Thank you all so very much. Reading these responses felt like joining a sisterhood, all the way from the big sisters with the tough love down to my multiples — to LAJen, Veronica Mars, Amelia Earhart, Mpls, AttiredAttorney, January, and Same Boat, we are in this together :)
Special thanks to those who admitted that they were, in fact, happier to be on the other side of all this, and that they remembered it was rough. Part of my deep hurt is that my happily partnered friends seem to have amnesia about the trials of singlehood. Slightly less than #smugmarrieds, but more like #wellmeaninggoldfish.
It may be my biggest challenge yet, even after all the butt I have had to kick in my fledgling career, to reframe my thinking as many of you suggest. Blaming luck, not me. Choosing happiness, not pain. Being present, not mourning the passage of time. I will do my best.
And to the anon hoping for something she can’t have, may you have your heart’s desire, too!
OP here
And to Polly Pepper — you are not my worst case scenario by far, and perhaps you are someone’s best case scenario :) Take heart with me.
In-House Europe
For those who know where I live – I and my loved ones are fine.
anon in SV
I was just thinking of you. Thank you for checking in.
Anon
Same here.
Blonde Lawyer
Off to CNN to see what awful tragedy has now occurred. I think I’m starting to get depressed from all of the current events and I barely watch the news. :(
I’m glad that you and your family are safe.
NOLA
What a relief! Glad we checked in today otherwise.
Beach house rental
What’s the fair split in this case? Renting a beach house for a week. One family is staying in 1 bedroom and the other family is staying in 2 bedrooms (bigger family). Common use of living room, bathroom, etc. of course.
Should the family taking up 2 rooms pay more, like 2/3 of the rental cost? Just a little more? The same? I have no idea.
Anonymous
60/40? That splits the bedrooms 1/3- 2/3 and the shared areas more towards 50-50.
Would also depend on size of each family. If the two bedrooms house 6 people and the one bedroom houses 2-3 people then 1/3-2/3 split is definitely fairer than 60/40
Anonymous
Divide it equally among all the people? So if one family is 2 and one family is 4, the bigger family pays 2/3rds, but if the one family is 4 and one family is 6, the bigger family only pays 60%?
anon in SV
We do this by adding up the total number of occupied rooms per night and dividing the total cost that way. So, 1 bedroom + 2 bedrooms = 3 bedrooms per night. Say that there are 3 total nights. So that’s 3 bedrooms x 3 nights = 9 uses of bedroom. For a $1k rental, for example, $1000/9 = $111/night for each bedroom. So one family is paying $111 per night and the other family is paying $222 per night.
Anonymous
You could do 50/50 and have the bigger family pay for the groceries for the house. Or something like that.
Maddie Ross
Did you specifically have to get a bigger house because of the larger family (i.e., specifically upgrade from 2 bedroom to 3)? If yes, than larger family makes up the difference. If it would have been a 3 bedroom no matter what, split equally. IMO at least.
anon
Alternately, you could price by square footage. Assuming the bedrooms take up as much space as the common areas each family pays 0.5*50%=25% for the common areas. The smaller family pays (1/3)*50% for the 1 bedroom and the larger family pays (2/3)*50% for the 2 bedrooms. The total percentage for the smaller family is 41.7% while the larger family pays 58.3%.
lawsuited
Note: I’m assuming that the families are friends or related. If the bigger family has the same number of adults as the smaller family, then split it 50/50. I think it’s the equitable thing to do seeing as kids can hardly pay their own way.
Anonymous
Why wouldn’t the parents cover the cost of their children’s room?
Wildkitten
If a childless family member, (with more spending money) is happy about the rental so she can see the child, she might want to pay more.
Nope
Currently going through the pain of infertility, this made me livid. Whether child-free by choice or circumstance, do not make us subsidize others’ children!
Mindy
Late to reading this, but I just wanted to chime in and thank all those who responded because this level of thought was highly entertaining. :)
Anonymous
We would do half and half.
I’d also recommend discussing allergies… The last time I did a house share someone was allergic to all nuts, half the fruit in existence, seafood and a bunch of ther stuff and their family didn’t want those things in the house. Lots of drama.
NYC short term housing?
Does anyone have any recommendations for short-term furnished apartments in Manhattan, ideally for a visiting executive with whom I am working? Likely for a few months from late August through December or so…. I am overwhelmed by Internet searching and would greatly appreciate any recommendations for places or realtors who could help. Happy weekend!!
Anonymous
You can either negotiate a rate with a hotel (like a Residence Inn), go through ExecuStay (extremely limited in Manhattan, I think), or do AirBnB (which will not be as flexible if you need to cancel/change, though there are definitely lots of rental-only apartments in Manhattan to choose from). I had a boyfriend do a stint there and he chose AirBnB and took over some lady’s apartment for a few months. I also did a stint and ended up living in regular hotels, though I did briefly use both Execustay and Airbnb. I needed the flexibility with our contract and also now I have a bajillion hotel points. I thought I’d want a kitchen, but in Manhattan, you really just need a fridge because there is no point is cooking when there are a million dining and delivery options. If you call a hotel directly and talk to the manager, they can often give you a custom project rate so you could live at the W or somewhere fancy.
Sydney Bristow
AirBnB is technically illegal in NYC and is sometimes cracked down on by the city. Since there is a chance that the executive could be kicked out of her accommodations on very little notice, I’d probably avoid AirBnB for a rental longer than a few days.
Anonymous
you might look at club quarters – their downtown location is ok and they might do extended stay
Wildkitten
Or they’ll trap you in a broken elevator, have the wrong number answer the phone repeating that nobody is stuck in the elevator, ask you to leave the elevator in a very unsafe manner, then be confused about why you want to cancel the reservation. I don’t normally do negative reviews on random things, but in this situation the experience was so terrifying that I will never club quarters (any location – this was Wall Street!) Ever again.
anonymous
If you could have your partner carry your child instead of you, would you still want to be pregnant and give birth?
Anonymous
Yes. I LOVED being pregnant and breastfeeding. When I had twins, I was sad that I was going to have three children but only two pregnancies. It’s so individual though – my best friend hated it. They decided not to try for a third baby because she can’t stand the idea of being pregnant again.
The hard part is you can’t know if you’ll love it or hate it until it happens.
Anonymous
I hated being pregnant (threw up every day for my second one, and most of the first one) but I still would do it again.
Anonymous
Why? I don’t mean to troll, this is a sincere question.
Anonymous
Presumably because the end result is worth it.
Anonymous
It was a bunch of intangibles. I liked the connection to my baby. I’m the only one who knows what it feels like when he kicked. I liked singing to them when I was getting ready in the mornings. I liked being the one who got credit for carrying them (Does that sound crazy?). I liked being in control of the situation, even though I trust my husband a ton.
Anonymous
I find this intriguing. I don’t have kids so maybe I’m missing something. I was under the impression that there are positive feelings associated with the process but that the discomforts are just as many. If you were still going to end up with the same kids, why go through it if there was an option for someone else to do it assuming that they do not mind at all?
tesyaa
While many women truly enjoy the sensation of carrying a baby and the satisfaction of giving birth, there’s also a tremendous amount of social validation. In many circles, being pregnant means lots of attention, solicitous friends and relatives, a shower, etc. (Maybe not enough to compensate for the discomforts, but in the present construct, where a woman usually does go through pregnancy herself in order to have a baby, the attention is a positive).
Anon at 3:13
For me it was the feeling of the baby growing inside me that I found amazing. The first time the baby moves, when you drink cold water and it wakes the baby up, tickling her feet when she was inside, patting my daughter on the bum in the womb and then discovering she loved that after she was born as well. The moment when you feel the baby start to emerge from your body and you meet them for the first time.
I actually hated how much being pregnant gets you attention though. I’m more of a private person IRL and my body somehow felt more ‘public’ once the belly was visible.
Anonymous
Totally agree on the second paragraph. I would probably be a happier pregnant person if I could go into hiding for 9 months like a high schooler in the 60s. The first time I saw someone look at me on the street, look at the belly, and then smile, I wanted to run for cover. I just felt so exposed and like I was considered public property. It sucked.
Faye
Wow, Anon at 3:28 and Anon at 3:35, you two just summed up my feelings about pregnancy. I hated it and wouldn’t choose to do it again (I’m two-and-done). There were little moments of awesome, that cool little connection that no one else will have, the indescribable feeling of feeling a kick from the inside. FAR outweighed (for me) by the feeling of being public property. I’m an extrovert and a hugger, but I *still* hated being rubbed in the grocery store or being critiqued by coworkers/friends/strangers on every move I made.
trish
I had so many happy hormones when I was pregnant that I was high all the time. My hair and nails were fabulous. I loved eating. I loved sleeping. I felt at one with the universe. And after, undiagnosed post-partum depression so bad that I didn’t want to get pregnant again.
Sue
No. For me this question is a no-brainer.
Anonymous
HE L L NO. A stranger surrogate is a little different, and even if I could wave a magic wand and have a surrogate carry my child without the financial cost or physical process of egg retrieval, I think I would be too worried about what the surrogate was eating/drinking/doing. But I trust my husband completely and would be ECSTATIC if he could carry a baby.
Blonde Lawyer
+1.
Anon
Yes.
Snick
In hindsight, since I have two children, I’d split 50/50. I found pregnancy and birth a life changing experience but no need to do it twice.
Maddie Ross
This. I was happy to experience once. I have told my H multiple times I would gladly have more if he would carry it.
tesyaa
+1
Anonymous
No way. I have a pathological fear/hatred of vomiting and have only done it a couple of times in my life (any Monk fans remember the episode where he’s poisoned and the doctor tells him he’s going to eventually start vomiting and then die and he gets this look of terror on his face and says “vomiting!?!?” and the doctor is like “um, I think you’re missing the point…” and Monk is like “Is there any way the death can come first?” That. Is. Me.) I really want a child but I don’t know how I’m going to survive morning sickness.
Anonymous
FWIW, you may not have it, or at least vomiting with it. I’m on my second pregnancy and have not vomited a single time. And normally I have a weak stomach, get motion sick and throw up a fair amount.
tesyaa
I had the same fear between the ages of 12 and 20 or so, but overcame it when it actually happened.
Anonymous
Same. You sort of deal with it. It’s just the way it is.
Anonymous
Are you bothered by other people’s vomit? Because you may or may not get morning sickness but if you have babies/young children – you will get puked on at some point so you may have to deal with the fear anyway.
Anonymous
Probably no more so than the average person is? I mean, it’s not fun, but I can deal with it and I’ve cleaned up my husband’s vomit (when he was really sick) and I clean up dog vomit all the time. It’s the act of doing it that I can’t stand.
Wildkitten
“Act of doing that” – means what?
Anonymous
I mean my intense fear is just of vomiting myself. Watching someone else vomit or cleaning it up is obviously gross but I can handle it.
trish
I did not vomit one time. I had no morning sickness at all.
Anony
Two pregnancies, did not vomit once.
Mariah
I was on antibiotics from November-February that made me vomit up to 10 times a day- middle of the night, out of nowhere, in public, on the side of the street, in every bathroom at the law school, at work, etc. It doesn’t scare me- being so nauseous I wanted to die is forty million times worse, IMO- but it’s not really something you ever get used to. I told my mom in complete seriousness partway through that if there was even a CHANCE that I would have morning sickness if I was pregnant I was adopting. She said I would change my mind. Almost 6 months later and I’m still very NOPE about ever being pregnant. There’s lots of wonderful kids who need to be adopted.
Never too many shoes
Nope. Been there, done that once and, for me, it was really not that meaningful an experience. I love my child fiercely, but I do not think that has anything to do with having gone through pregnancy and birth.
Wow
Yes yes yes. I was extremely fortunate to have pretty easy pregnancies and I was really happy with how I looked to. I dare say, I felt the most beautiful that I have ever felt (not so much toward the last trimester though). And more importantly, I just loved the fact that a human was growing inside of me. It was all very surreal.
ChiLaw
If I could skip the pregnancy/childbirth part, I would give a LOT more thought to having another kid. I hated being pregnant (and the exhaustion impacted my work in a way I really didn’t like) and birth was traumatic in a way that I don’t want to go through again, aaaaand PPD/A wasn’t awesome, and nursing is the pits. The only good thing is my awesome kid.
Emmer
I’m only in the pregnancy part right now, so no idea about how giving birth will go, but my god I wish someone else would do this instead of me….I’m constantly nauseous. (But to the person worried about vomiting above, I haven’t yet – I just feel like I’m on a boat constantly). On the bright (ha!) side, the nausea makes me miss wine less.
Anonymous
In the sense that my partner is way way healthier than I am- yes. But I really want to experience pregnancy and child birth for myself- and it’s currently my major motivator to get in better shape.
Boston Legal Eagle
I would have the first and would want him to have the second. I’m all about having as equal a partnership as possible and this would truly equalize us. My pregnancy was fairly easy too but if I didn’t have to go through it again and have my SO do it to get our second kid, I would sign up in a heartbeat. I don’t like the attention of being pregnant but it is pretty cool to know that my body is capable of growing an entirely new human!
TK
Loved being pregnant. Would gladly do it again and hope I have the opportunity. I felt full of purpose. Thought intentionally about what I ate, prioritized exercise, left work at a normal time, slept in, was (necessarily) friendlier to strangers because so many of them started conversations with me, gained sympathy for the large-of-chest, and generally marveled that another person was busy living their own life INSIDE of me. It was awesome. I didn’t go through labor (planned C section, huge baby) so that might change my mind but overall the discomforts, for me, were far fewer than the rewards. No morning sickness, not much fatigue, worked right through until the day before the scheduled C. Lost weight without trying (well, by nursing) in 6 weeks. I feel like being pregnant is one of my special talents that I hope to use again.
GETTING pregnant, though is apparently not one of my special talents. No #2 after 18 months of TTC. But once / when it works again, I will be elated.
Wow
I love this, TK. :) I felt the same way.
Susan
Interesting question! I loved being pregnant and after I had my daughter, I had fleeting fantasies of being a surrogate (I wouldn’t really, for a variety of reasons) since I knew we were only having one. I had a really easy pregnancy and I really enjoyed having such a different relationship and experience of my body. I am not an athlete or particularly physically gifted person, but it was kind of like those (very infrequent moments) when I’d do something cool … wow! I can’t believe what my body can do! Women’s bodies are amazing! It felt powerful. All the changes and thinking about what was happening to my body – it was fascinating. Even the limitations, like the struggle to roll over or get out of a car, were a learning experience … Ill get my mobility back, but I’ll never take it for granted again. And I loved not worrying about what I looked like, in the usual “have I gained weight? am I getting (too) flabby?” But that was just me, and my pregnancy. I was lucky – I know lots of women whose pregnancies were very difficult on them.
Need to Improve
I would want to have had the experience once. The second time I had a kid, i was thinking “if my partner was a woman, i would have asked her to carry this one.” It’s a cool experience, but a big strain on your body. If i did not have to be PG or breastfeed (which i would do if i got PG again), i might consider having a third! But i am not bearing or gestating a third child. Nope.
Child-free
As a child-free gal, I am more ambivalent about kids. I resigned myself to possibly having to get pregnant and go through child birth but I’m not looking forward to it.
If I had an SO who wanted kids and was willing to be in the “mother” gender role, yes absolutely! He can get pregnant, have the baby, take maternity leave, BF, etc., no hesitation. I would be enthusiastic to take on the gender role of “father” when having children.
I am so glad other women are willing and even love being pregnant. Y’all are my heros. Seriously, pregnancy and childbirth is f-ing heroic.
layered bob
What an interesting question! An unquestionably, yes. I had an average pregnancy and an awful, scary, dangerous delivery and I would do it again in a heartbeat just for the privilege of being pregnant again, never mind the new person at the end of it.
I don’t like the sense of being on display in public, and I got sick of my pregnancy always being a topic of conversation (although maybe that will be better with the second one, since it won’t be as interesting to family and I’ll be better at redirecting the conversation), but wow I LOVED being pregnant. What an experience.
Anon for this
Fun question! For me, this was not theoretical–I have a wife who was (thank goodness) willing to get pregnant twice to get us our babies when it turned out I can’t get pregnant.
I would have loved to experience pregnancy, but it turns out a) I’m really good at taking care of a pregnant wife, b) she got pregnant instantly for both kids (first try IUI for each) and c) she grew some awesome kids in there. All in all, I’m extremely lucky and grateful things turned out the way they did, even if it wasn’t what I would have chosen when we were just starting out.
Anon
I loved being pregnant for the most part, but by the end of my third pregnancy I knew that would likely be our last one. It was very difficult for me towards the end of that pregnancy. I have been lucky and have had pretty easy labor and deliveries and recoveries. I do love babies/children though so maybe if my husband could carry the baby then I would have liked one more! We are far enough past the baby stage of our youngest now that she is set to enter kindergarten (and having three is school is a game-changer for us!) that we will not have any more (and my husband has made sure of that–permanently.)
bostonian
heck no!! it was an awful experience. im glad our child turned out healthy and fine but i really, really, really hated being pregnant. the physical discomforts were awful (horrible morning sickness for me, fatigue for long periods of time, everything swelled up and gestational diabetes) and i missed working out for my mental health. if there was a way to grow a baby not in my stomach i would totally do that next time.
Anonymous
Hell no! I hated being pregnant. I was done at like 6 months and I had an easy pregnancy.
An anonymous
Last Thanksgiving my partner’s family was staying with us and they were absolutely horrible to me. They said some very racist things, which they frequently do, and I had enough of this on my home, so I asked them to please refrain from discussing that in my home. Mind you, I am also of a different background and religion of them and mt job focuses on civil rights issues. This turned into a whole ordeal with yelling between my partner and his parents and then totally another issue where his father was saying really sexist thighs about me (e.g., I needed a thicker skin if I wanted to work with men because men say things like this all the time, etc.). Long story short, they left the next day without so much as saying a word to either of us. Since then he has been speaking to them less than once a week, whereas before he spoke to them all the time. I haven’t spoken to them at all or seen them, as I feel strongly they owe me an apology.
My partner told me today that we were invited to some family things soon and he wants me to go with him. I don’t want to upset him, so I want to go, but I don’t know how to handle seeing his parents. The things they said were so incredibly hurtful that I get really upset just recalling what they said. I have no idea how to handle seeing them and I think the longer this goes on the worse, but they obviously do not care. I know my partner feels very stuck in the middle as well, which is a difficult position.
anonymous
ohhhhhhh… I have been in your position, and I was so, so angry for years. In our situation, partner did his best but handled it terribly (he has since learned), and there were many interactions over the course of about 3 years. I finally decided that I’m just not going to see them unless I decide otherwise, and that’s been the only thing that has worked for me.
I don’t know what to tell you- those few years were some of the hardest in my life, and my life hasn’t been very easy all things considered. I would say stick up for yourself and don’t compromise. And if you do, don’t overestimate what you can live with. And do not feel pressured to see them. I strongly recommend that you not go.
All the best with this, and I’m thinking of you.
Anonymous
Personally, I wouldn’t go. I would not want to spend time with people who thought less of me and my family because of my racial/ethnic/religious background. I would hope that your partner would understand this and not pressure you to go.
That said, if you feel like you have to (or want to) go, perhaps you could pick just one or two out of a handful of events. Be pleasant, put a smile on your face, spend as little time with his parents as you can. Talk to his aunts or his cousins. Leave early.
Going to these events does not mean that all is forgiven and forgotten. I would make sure that your partner understands this.
OP
I was sort of thinking along these lines, that if do go, I would pretty much steer clear of them and just socialize with everyone else.
Anonymous
I consider going but only if Partner (1) agrees that both of you will leave immediate if anything similar is said again and (2) warn parents/family that their behavior was not acceptable and you both will leave immediately if anything similar is said again.
Your Partner needs to have your back on this and you need to agree on some kind of signal (words and/or gesture) to indicate that you both are immediately leaving.
If you don’t want to go, don’t. Your Partner should not pressure you on this.
Anonymous
In case it wasn’t clear about (2) I mean that he should call them before the event and note that behavior was not acceptable and you’ll both leave if it happens again.
Wendy
+1 Complete agreement
Samantha
If I were you, I’d give them one more chance on a clean slate. I’d do it for my partner. Try to forget about what happened before, start afresh, and go there intending to be nice and to be friendly (not with the attitude of demanding an apology). But if any of that recurs, yes, you have a right to walk out. You took the high road and that will make you feel better about yourself.
OP
I appreciate your perspective. However, I don’t think giving up my integrity will make me feel good about myself.
JayJay
I’d recommend that you reframe this from giving up your integrity. Integrity doesn’t demand an apology. You can be icily cordial to people you actively hate and still have integrity. Being the bigger person is sometimes the better option.
anonymous
Or she could just refuse to engage with them. Protecting herself from feeling this way more doesn’t make her not the “bigger person”
EM
You don’t want to upset him? For choosing not to be around people who don’t respect you, are rude, sexist, and racist? Your partner feels stuck in the middle, for not insisting that people treat you with respect?
No, I wouldn’t go! Why does Partner want to go into a toxic situation and drag you along too? For company? (Misery loves company.) Does Partner really think that everyone will behave with you there? (At last, right?) You partner needs to grow a backbone and deal with his parents. This has nothing to do with you. You stay far, far away, and remind yourself that you deal with civil rights issues in your day job, and you are entitled to be treated civilly in your personal life as well.
OP
This is pretty much how I feel too, but I wasn’t sure if I was being totally stubborn and irrational!
anonymous
Yes, what EM said.
trish
I ignored my racist father in law. He’s dead now. IT can be done for your husband. THey will be racist whether you talk to them or not.
Annie
I would actually suggest that you go. I understand why you were upset a year ago. I can also imagine that your partner’s family (right or wrong) might feel like they are owed an apology. While I can understand your desire to have some justice (my word, not yours), I think it’s important to keep in mind that this is not some random relationship. This is your partner’s family.
In my view, if you and your partner are committed and serious, then you each need to make sacrifices for each other, including for each other’s families. I was glad to read that your partner stuck up for you with his family — as he should! However, your partner should also be able to have a relationship with his family that includes you. That is fair to him.
I would also encourage you to try to put this incident from last year either behind you (if you can find a way to start afresh) or to put it on the back burner for now. It seems to me like you need some time to get to know a different side of your partner’s family. I start here with my presumption that there’s something to like about everyone. (I feel like I need to insert a disclaimer here, that I’m not saying intolerance or bigotry is okay. I’m just saying that I’ve yet to meet a person who has no good qualities, even if they also have significant bad qualities.) I think you need to have a chance to find some good things you like about his family, and to let them see the good qualities that you have.
Give yourself permission to get along with them. If there is a chance that you can get along with them and form a decent relationship, that would be a good thing.
OP
Thanks – this response is actually really helpful to me and puts things in perspective. I definitely want to get beyond this for everyone’s sake and mos importantly for the sake of our relationship. I am so glad he stuck up for me during the incident and I do really appreciate the tough spot he is in now, so I want to do what I can to alleviate that stress. Thank you for your great advice!
Anonymous
Yikes. I am in a similar situation to you right now–I come from a different religious/cultural background as my in-laws and they have been consistently horrible to me about it, and extra-horrible with a dose of heinous sexism since Thanksgiving. You’re totally justified in feeling however you feel about it, and you don’t need to make nice with them in any way. Your partner needs to stick up for you and set boundaries with his family, consistently. Don’t go to the events unless YOU want to go, and if you go, have a clear plan for the boundaries he will set and what you will do if something gets nasty.
Anonymous
Please give me some perspective? A couple of weeks ago, fiance asked if I wanted to go to Re-Scheduleable Awesome Event at the same time as a vendor appointment for our wedding (which we’re only having because he wants a wedding; I don’t). I told him no, remember, we have the appointment that I had to schedule a month out because this vendor is filling up for our wedding month. Well I guess he forgot so he committed to Event anyway. He apparently intends to go even if I can’t. I can’t reasonably reschedule with the vendor at this late date.
I’m pretty annoyed because I don’t see why he should get to continue to do fun things on the weekend while I toil away doing something that we’re only doing because he wants it. I’ve been to other vendor appointment alone, and generally I don’t mind, but that’s because he’s also doing some chore, like mowing the lawn or re-staining the deck. I don’t want to be a nagging harpy who never lets him have fun, and it’s only one appointment, maybe I should cut him some slack? Idk, am I unreasonable to be annoyed?
Anonymous
Cancel the appointment. If he wants a wedding, he should do the work of planning it.
An anonymous
This + go to fun event
AnonInfinity
+1,000,000
Also, perhaps the vendor will work with you on the appointment time since they presumably want your business and referrals.
HSAL
Yep. You should not be doing the bulk of the labor for something that’s important to him and not you.
Anonymous
This.
Sydney Bristow
This is what I think too. And really, it’s the second appointment you’d be going to alone. If he’s the one that pushed for a wedding, he should be at the appointments at the very least!
OP
I mean, I’d rather screen wedding planners and look at venues than mow the lawn and do the grocery shopping. As long as we’re both spending our time doing the work of the household I don’t really care if it’s His Chore or My Chore.
This is the first time he’s done a non-chore while I’ve done wedding planning stuff. On the other hand, I’m sure at some point I will go shopping with friends while he’s power washing the siding. Idk. I go back and forth.
Anonymous
It isn’t the same – the chores he is doing are for your mutual benefit (to maintain the home you share). The wedding is being planned for his benefit, so he should be putting in MORE work to make it happen, not lump this in with other mutual tasks.
Anonymous
Yup.
EB0220
Totally agree. If you truly don’t care, let him deal with the fallout of missing the appt.
Anon
I would be annoyed.
Scarlett
So putting aside the should you be annoyed question (up to you), what vendor is it? I personally think you can make wedding planning way too hard by going to meet with all the vendors & taking all kinds of time on it. My vote would be for neither of you to spend ages agonizing over decisions like that – get some recommendations, see if you like their style & book it.
OP
It’s the florist. I don’t care about flowers but his mother does and she gave us an absurd amount of money to make flowers happen. Her health hasn’t been great so she can’t make it to appointments right now. I don’t know his mom’s taste so I really can’t pick out the styles she would like or if she would even like this florist’s work.
Anonymous
I think this changes things a bit because it impacts your relationship with your ill future MIL.
I would still cancel this appointment but I would sit Fiance down and talk seriously about how his mother isn’t well and this is important to her and he needs to get his act together. He should call around and find three florists who are available on the date. Then you both go and visit her, take an Ipad to show her pictures from the website of each and let her pick the florist.
Anonymama
Dude, you don’t need to visit three florists. Ask the one to email you some pictures from previous weddings, tell her what you like, and don’t stress about it. My mother in law similarly loves aglow rs and it was important to her that we have nice flowers, but she wouldn’t have wants us to pick flowers just because she would have liked them, you know? So even if you don’t have strong feelings about it, pick something that you like.
Anon at 3:59
Why would anyone visit three florists? Suggestion was for Fiance to phone 3 florists to find out if available on date. If yes, show pictures of their work on their website to MIL and let her pick. Zero meetings with florists required. 3 phone calls from Fiance and 1 visit to MIL required.
Anon
Talk to his mother, get a feel for what she likes, get a bunch of photos online that represent what she likes (Pinterest board for the win!), and share those with the florist.
Where are you located? I have a great florist rec if you’re in the Boston area.
OP
I’ve tried. She just says everything is nice. She’s not really honest with me in a negative way. Which is great! I feel terrible saying anything remotely complain-y about having a MIL who throws money at the wedding and then isn’t a controlling witch about every detail! But I want to make her happy and she’s given me zero guidance.
Anonymous
If you really can’t get any guidance from her, just pick what you like.
If you think it will help if the flowers have meaning behind them, then look up the flowers for your birth month, Fiance’s birth month and the birth months of the parents (yours and his). Pick a florist whose style you like and have them do the flowers with the family connection meaning in mind.
Anon
Late to the party, but I agree with this. Or find out what flowers were at her wedding and — so long as she was happily married — go with something similar or the same. Or just getting her talking about her wedding flowers to see how she describes them, and use that to pick.
Anon in NYC
If I were in your shoes, I would be annoyed. But do you really think your fiance is going to know his mother’s taste in flowers? I imagine that she would want you (and him) to pick flowers that you like.
Whether you’re willing to cancel the appointment and miss out on this particular vendor is a different story.
Scarlett
So one of my good friends is actually a wedding florist. What she’s said is that the easiest weddings to do just have a color scheme or idea (e.g. all whites/blush tones or darker fall tones, etc.) & they let the florist work from there. Flowers get expensive when you have your heart set on things out of season (like peonies). I’d recommend looking at the florist’s portfolio (do you like the look & feel -modern/rustic or minimalist or whatever, you can get a sense of it) & then showing the florist pics of your venue & wedding date & then just give the florist control over the rest. Tell them the budget & the concept (if your MIL is into flowers, my guess is quantity will matter more than kind of bloom) & let them go from there. You can totally do this over the phone or email. This is 100% an appointment neither of you need to go to.
Anonymama
Yes, this exactly.
CPA Lady
Haha, I got married at age 22 and was terrified of real adults. When I met with the florist, who did all the flowers for all the weddings in that small town (and is a complete GENIUS at it), I brought a black and white print off of an arrangement I loved, a swatch of bridesmaid dress fabric, told him the budget and said “do whatever you want”. The meeting was 20 minutes long, the flowers were magnificent, and the florist is one of my friends to this day, a decade later.
Cat
You’ve decided as a couple to have a Fancy Wedding. As a general matter, IMO whining about having to go to appointments because of “his” party isn’t going to end well.
That said, I’d be annoyed at him bailing on the appointment regardless of whose initiative the Fancy Wedding was. I’m on Team Reschedule the Appointment for a time that’s either convenient for both of you, or for a time when fiance is doing something else on the Fancy Wedding To-Do List.
Anonymous
Cancel the appointment and don’t reschedule. Tell him you expect him to do it.
Workworry
I need some professional advice, but don’t know what my question is. I am a mom of young kids, have lots of help at home (nearby family, nanny etc.) and my DH has a busier worklife than mine.
I was interviewing for 2 roles: (A) for lower title (manager) in a dream company, minuscule commute and (B) for a level up (better title e.g. director) in a (large startup) company with some financial difficulties, 40 minute highway commute.
I got offer B and joined. Found out it is very tight on cash and managing payments. May get some additional investment and then the cash constraint will go away. I have a lot of responsibility here. Have been in meetings with the CEO and presented to the CFO within such a short time of joining.
One month after joining, I got an interview callback for A, attended, and now got offer A. Title is lower so it seems like I’m taking a step down, but it’s a significantly larger, stable company and is located much closer to me. They may match the compensation though. I’m managing the same size team. But will be more levels below the CFO and CEO now, and chances are minimal that I will have the same kind of exposure and growth.
– Do I even want the job A? I am so reluctant to take a step down.
– If I do (and I’m enticed by the commute and stability) then it’s going to be bad to burn bridges with job B.
Thoughts?
Anonymous
I’d take offer A because of the financial difficulties and longer commute. How confident are you that the financial difficulties will resolve?
Anon2
I’d take the offer A, no questions asked. You say it’s a dream company. It’s stable. It’s a great commute. They’ll match your pay. You’d still be managing people. Well – -then you will work hard and over time get promoted one level to where you’re at now with a start up. I don’t know that I’d put my eggs in the basket of being a director in a start up that happens to have financial troubles. Sure maybe those troubles disappear and this becomes the next Facebook; but reality is most start ups don’t last long term. Why not go to a company that’ll be around for the long haul where you can build a management career? Rather than stay someplace just to rub elbows with a CEO or CFO who may or may not be invested in this in 1 yr.
Anon in NYC
Same.
JayJay
Yup. Company A no questions asked. For every Facebook or Instagram, there are a ton of failed start ups with people in the wake.
Anon
I think this is a classic startup v. bigger company conundrum. Yes, you’ll stretch more at a startup, but you will also be in a more unstable environment. The exposure to C-level management is definitely going to be different at a smaller company than a larger, more established company. What you really need to ask yourself is how much you value (a) stability; (b) title; (c) comp (d) commute and (e) stretching yourself. We can’t really answer this for you. Personally, long commutes make me crazy. And boring jobs make me crazy.
Is it possible that if you go to startup and startup fails, there will still be another job opp at Co A down the road? Or if this a “get on now or the opp won’t come up again for a while” type situation? That would really color my view too. You have a chance for a “safe” thing here, but if it’s always a chance, then I’d stay at the startup. If the job you want at safe bigCo is not available often, then I might jump to safety now, even though my heart is a little bit more into startup.
Good luck!
OP here
I may not have been clear that I’ve already joined Company B! Because A didn’t get back to me for a month after initial interview.
Does that change anyone’s answer? Here I am, hobnobbing with everyone, lots of people saying nice things about being happy I joined and so on, my boss with whom I’ve formed a personal relationship, and my team.
I don’t have a written offer from company A yet (just the verbal ‘we are thinking of giving you an offer’ offer) but I’m worried about the extent of the bridge that I am considering burning, with so many people. What could I possibly say to them?
Traveller
Another thing to consider is that small startups often suffer from serious title inflation. I certainly see this to be the case in the technology world.
So if the ‘stable’ company really is larger, the scope of responsibility for a Manager might be the same (or higher) vs Director at a startup. This is usually the most obvious when a big company buys a startup. From what I’ve seen, the CEO of the startup usually comes in at VP level (maybe SVP), VPs become Directors, Directors become managers etc.
SA
As someone who worked at offer B and was laid off after 1.5 years of HARD work I would totally say offer A!
Anon
Does anyone wear JCrew pixie pants to work? How do you like to wear them? I work in a business casual office, with many folks dressing closer to the casual end of the spectrum. I really like these pants but I want to make sure I’m not wearing them as fancy leggings.
Cat
I’m sorry to say that IMO they *are* fancy leggings. I see young 20 somethings wearing them to work with blousy silky tops but the overall look is either super-tight pants or dressy leggings… so a no-go for me.
Catlady
I wore these to work once, and the next day I got a talking to from my manager who thought they were leggings.
Anonymous
I do with blousy shirts all the time, but I think it’s a “know your workplace” situation.
Mariah
I’ll be working in a super casual office (except for when going to court) and I’m pretty sure these wouldn’t fly. Unfortunate, because they’d also look excellent on me, but they just kind of look like fancy leggings.
Minnie Beebe
A sort of on-topic post – I’m fairly “meh” on the leather jacket pictured. But I would like to state for the record that the Buffy movie was *not* horrible. It was hilarious! So campy and wonderful!
Sydney Bristow
I loved the original Buffy!
ezt
I don’t think Joss Whedon would characterize the movie Buffy of the “original” since he’s on record saying they destroyed his vision/screenplay in the movie…are you a show-Buffy fan? I can sort of see not hating the movie but if you see the show and where Joss intended to go it’s hard to think highly of the movie they made from that. Ok, sorry, I am overly intense about Buffy, carry on.
Sydney Bristow
I see them as 2 completely different things. Same title and same general premise but totally different things.
I actually didn’t watch the show when it was on but have seen it all now. I should go back and watch it again. I love Joss but since I didn’t pay much attention to Buffy at the time I missed everything about the movie destroying his vision.
cbackson
I met my best friend through Buffy the show, have seen every episode multiple times, and basically in all ways qualify as a crazy superfan, but I loved the movie too. I just think of them as different.
Anonymous
Yes. Loved it!
Anon2
Since folks were talking about investing earlier — I’m curious as I’m trying to learn more. For retirement investing — % wise how much do you allocate to riskier/growth funds vs. safer balanced funds and/or bonds?
Age?
saving
All in index funds. Vanguard.
Keep it simple, especially as you are not experienced.
Studies have shown even trying to pick these “riskier” funds vs. others usually just leads to failure to beat the index.
And you don’t need to be worried about bond balancing until close to retirement age…. or perhaps… ever.
Take a look at Mr. Money Mustache or Boggleheads websites.
AttiredAttorney
Which index funds at Vanguard do you like? Do you diversify across index funds?
Sarabeth
The easiest route to diversification is to use either one of thev target retirement date or life Strategy funds. For the latter, you want one of the more aggressive options, assuming retirement is still 25+ years away for you.
Anon
Considering going into consulting (on my own). Any seminars/books/blogs you’d recommend?
Anonymous
Sigh. I am just getting settled in my new job, and my first real full-performance job after graduate school, making good money for my field, but realizing how absolutely effed I am in this post-school era. I will get a 1 year promotion (not a lawyer) so that will help as well, as well as not having to do $100 a paycheck in my FSA next year (I needed oral surgery and figured I should bite the bullet for the tax deduction?).
Yay for more years of barely scraping it together. I have a budget (started using YNAB) and a plan and took my credit cards out of my wallet but it makes bankruptcy look attractive.
Somebody please assure me there is a light at the end of the tunnel here?
Anon2
Not understanding your concern. You say you make good money. Is there debt? Is it that once you’ve paid for living expenses and saved a bit, there’s not much left? Something else?
Anonymous
Yes, good money but student loans + credit cards from grad school (not saying it was the smartest move, but it’s done now). I said this is the year I really own my finances so I was working on my budget on lunch and wanted to cry.
I have enough to cover my living expenses and loan payments, but not enough to really get ahead on my debt. Don’t have time for a second job, and already have suppressed my living expenses like rent as much as I can. Can’t really think of anything else I can do besides ride it out until the next raise and/or date somebody I like enough to move in with (even with roommates, opportunity cost of being single is too real)
Anon
If you’re comfortable sharing rough numbers, maybe people can help you strategize on how to reduce expenses?
Anon2
If you’d be willing to post a budget, people here may be able to help — sometimes others can see ways to save a few bucks here and there and that extra money can go to debt.
saving
Sounds like it is time to take a deep breath, start reading Mr. Money Mustache to seriously look at where you cut back and …. make the cuts. You are young. You may not be able to afford to live where you live, and live alone. Housing and car/commute are usually the biggest expenses (outside of loans/debt), so this is where you need to look.
You can do this.
Anon
Can your parents help? I might get flamed for saying this, but it might be more of a viable option than holding out hope for a boyfriend you want to move in with.
What I mean is, can your parents lend you enough money to cover your credit card debt? Then you could pay them back but not feel as terrible about the amount owing? How much debt are we talking?
Anonymous
Parents and paying them a reasonable interest rate is way better than fighting credit card debt
Mpls
That’s the reality of paying off debt. It sucks for awhile and eventually gets better, if you keep making good decisions. If you can get help, great. But otherwise, yes – it is a bit of a slog. Hopefully you build good habits in the meantime.
Jenny
It might be too late already for this question, but here goes: if you have experience with Contrave or other weight loss medications, I would love to hear about your experience.
anon
I took Contrave for 6 months and it did help with weight loss. I was exercising pretty regularly but not super strict about my diet. Lost 10-15 lbs I think although I haven’t been very successful in keeping it off after stopping. It was pretty pricey though, even with insurance coverage. The appetite suppression was similar to being on bupropion alone. I didn’t have major craving or binge issues to begin with so the naltrexone wasn’t a significant change.
Jenny
How much appetite suppression are we talking about? I am basically hungry all the time. It’s like my hunger cues are totally broken. I would love to have that hunger voice in my brain just turn off.
anon
Enough to keep you satisfied between small/normal meals. It helps with what I’d call the break through hunger. And you are full a little faster when you do eat.
Cyclist
I was having problems with knowing instinctively when I was hungry and when I wanted to eat out of boredom during the work day. I blame it on being at a desk all day in an office without a window. My natural rhythms were just completely off. I bought a Fitbit at the beginning of the summer and started using it to log all my food intake. It’s keeping up with calories out due to any walking, intentional exercise, or just naturally from being alive. It tells me when I’m in the zone, under the zone, or out of zone, which tells me when I should be justifiably hungry. It helps me spread out my calories during the day, and each day I need a different amount of calories based on my activity level.
Not a solution for everyone, but it has worked for me.
Sydney Bristow
I’ve never heard of that one.
A few years ago I was on phentermine, seeing a dietician monthly, exercising regularly and lost about 70 pounds. I was paying for it out of pocket and couldn’t afford to any longer and over the next few years gained it all back.
Now that I have great health insurance, I’ve been seeing an internist who specializes in weight loss. I’ve been on a newer med called Saxenda for about 2 months. It’s a higher dose of diabetes medication. I’m not diabetic, but my doc was concerned that I may have an insulin resistance issue. After trying really hard to eat well and get some exercise in for 6 months and losing a total of 12 pounds, she prescribed it for me. It’s really been helping me. Some people lose weight really rapidly but I’ve been losing just under 2 pounds per week. It’s crazy expensive ($1300/month retail) but my insurance covers it because of my BMI and that 6 month record of struggling to lose weight. I’m trying to really focus on creating better habits this time so that when I do go off the medication I won’t gain it back.
Sydney Bristow
Should have added info about side effects. Phentermine makes my heart race when I first start taking it, but that feeling goes away and I don’t really experience any side effects.
The Saxenda comes with horrible side effects for some people. There is a 5 week period spent gradually increasing the dosage to the full amount to try and avoid side effects. Some people feel super nauseous, constipated or have the runs. I only experienced a little bit of this. Part of what the medication does is slow the emptying of your stomach, which can lead to experiencing those side effects. I felt sick one day during my dosage increase weeks but it wasn’t too bad. I sometimes get sick to my stomach now if I eat things that I really shouldn’t… hello Panda Express a few days ago! That helps me stay on track though and the slower emptying helps me really not feel hungry. I definitely still felt hungry on phentermine after I was on it for awhile.
Sydney Bristow
I’m in moderation for some reason. Check back for a long response about my experiences with various ones (though not the one you’re talking about).
BeenThatGuy
I’ve taken both Qysmia and Belviq (currently still taking Belviq). I lost quickly on Qysmia (10% in less than 6 weeks). But it gave me anxiety and sleep issues. On this, you literally can’t drink anything carbonated (no soda or beer) because the medication changes your palate and it literally tastes like garbage (a good thing). Instead of contacting my doctor, I just stopped taking it and put all the weight back on. At the next visit, doctor said she could have lowered the dosage to keep the weight off but resolve the side effects. Dumb move on my part.
I’m currently on Belviq. Zero side effects but it needs to be taken twice a day and I can’t seem to remember the 2nd dose. It works great with the morning dosage so I’m setting a timer for the 2nd dose and hope to see some results soon.
Kk
I am currently on Victoza (as well as Sprionolactone, Metformin, and Actos) for insulin resistance issues. Victoza assists with weight loss by helping to regulate insulin production. It’s not for the faint of heart as it is a daily injection in the tummy. It can also cause nausea so most people have to gradually build up the dose. I also noticed my body couldn’t tolerate carbo-loaded foods which led me to develop a bit of a taste aversion to lots of junk food. I went from 120lbs to 96lbs in four months (No criticism here please. I was not hoping for this result – I really miss being softer and having curves, but it’s the only thing that regulates my blood sugar effectively. Also I’m 5′ 2″ so I am not significantly underweight), which leads me to believe it can be a quite effective tool for folks who may have weight loss goals.
Sydney Bristow
The one I’m currently taking is the more recently approved higher dosage version of the same active ingredient in Victoza. If I remember correctly, Victoza tops out at 1.8 and the one I’m on is at 3.0.
Anon
Since there’s so many DC people — can anyone give me an estimate of a rental price for a studio/1 bedroom in Foggy Bottom? FWIW — I’d be looking at “regular” buildings — high rise condo, but not super fancy; rather a building built in the 70s-90s; 400-700 sqft place though with a full kitchen — i.e. regular size stove, dishwasher etc. I’d need a washer/dryer though I expect a laundry room in the building, not my own W/D in the unit.
Thoughts? All the listings I’m finding are for brand new, all glass/granite kinds of places so prices are really high. Just wanted to know what regular place would go for as I’m budgeting.
anon a mouse
I’d probably budget 1800-2000, and that way you have room to be surprised if something pops up for cheaper. You should decide how important a dishwasher is to you. You can find everything on your list in an older building for less, but many of the older buildings don’t have dishwashers.
Anon
OP here — same thing always happen to me in NYC; even renovated places tend not to have dishwashers and if they do — there’s a mark up on the rent. Sadly it’s a dealbreaker for me — I am willing to pay for it though as I’m make up for it by cooking some meals at home — which I’m less likely to do if I have to wash dishes.
Anonymous
$1750-2000. Are you sold on Foggy Bottom? Where is your work? Also, the condos people rent tend to be cheaper, if you look outside of the buildings.
Foggy Bottom resident
I live in a studio in Foggy Bottom. There are some rent controlled buildings here that have “cheap” studios in the range of $1700-1800/month for about 500 square feet. Just call around to buildings and see what they have available. The apartments in that price range usually haven’t been renovated since they were built and generally don’t have super nice appliances/etc, but they’re perfectly fine. If you want an updated apartment in an old building, or an apartment in a new building, you’re going to pay substantially more.
Foggy Bottom resident
Oh, and forgot to mention that if you’re looking at non-fancy buildings, you have about a 50/50 chance of getting a dishwasher. I don’t have one, but I have a crazy good deal on rent, so that’s worth it to me.
Also, I’m pretty sure all of the buildings in the area have laundry rooms at the very least. I don’t even know where the closest laundromat is.
Wildkitten
I got a portable dishwasher for my rent controlled apartment and I love it. But I was going from no dishwasher to portable dishwasher, not from regular dishwasher to portable dishwasher.
Mariah
Read lots of things here about commute, and I’m SO excited that post-bar, I’ll be moving into an apartment that’s 15min by bus (with ALLLLLLLL the bus options) to work! I could technically walk to work- it’d probably be about 45 minutes, and I’ll probably end up walking home on nice fall/spring/summer nights, but I’m so excited about the quick bus commute. When I was interning/externing, I was always about 45-60 minutes away by bus, which was fine, time to read/catch up on FB/listen to music and veg, but being able to run home during lunch if I need to will be a dream. I’ve always been about 15-25 minutes from school, but it was never like I had a particularly normal commute time because I was often getting there for like, a 10AM class and not leaving until 10 PM or something, that having a regular, daily, short commute will be /so great/.
Kk
Congrats on a fantastic decision! Having a short commute is truly a dream. It does not get old. You get so much of your life back! After I took the bar, I moved within a 6 minute walk of my firm. HEAVENLY! Then a few months later, in an unexpected turn of events, I was seconded to my client (which I adore, so its fine) and now have a commute of 1.5 hours each day. AHHHHH!!! I am caught up on my podcasts, but god, at what cost?
Good luck on the bar! :)
CTAtty
I went from a 50 minute commute to a 35 minute commute to now having a commute that’s 5 minutes by car, 10 walking. It is the most amazing thing to have a short commute. I thought I’d miss the decompression time in the car (my longer commutes didn’t involve much traffic), but now I decompress by getting home when it’s still light out and taking the dog for a long walk.
Mariah
I might get a dog after I get settled in at work. I had the opportunity to live somewhere that was a 5 min walk from work, but it was more expensive, smaller, and not in an area I would feel safe at night, plus I know that I need at least a few minutes to get into and out of work mode and I wouldn’t have been able to get that. So a quick commute is the best of both worlds. Close but not so close I’ll feel suffocated by work. And I can’t see my office from my apartment, which was not an idea I liked with the other building.
X
Just wanted to say that I scored big at the Boden sample sale yesterday – 2 cashmere cardigans (one orange, one subtly sparkly champagne color), one striped pencil skirt, one navy print faux wrap skirt and one navy print scoop neck dress with pockets for me, plus 2 dresses for my sister, one dress for my mom and a top for my sister-in-law. And the total price was $300.
Nancy
I have a question and need some thoughts from this community. I had a bad experience at a Marriott in IN and emailed the mgr. to let her/him know. He offered me either points or a free night at this same Marriott. I am not sure which is the better option? I have no idea how many points would be needed i.e. for a stay at a suburban Chicago Marriott brand hotel? Should I ask him for a specific number of points or just take the offer of a free night at his hotel although I do not travel to that city nearly as often as I do to the Chicago area. Thank you in advance for any recommendations.