Corporette.com

Updated: Dec 21, 2020 102 Comments · by

Weekend Open Thread

Weekend Open Thread |

This post may contain affiliate links and Corporette® may earn commissions for purchases made through links in this post. As an Amazon Associate, I earn from qualifying purchases.

5/24/24 Update: The Nordstrom Half-Yearly Sale has started — see our big sale roundup! Also, sign up for our newsletter to stay on top of all the great sales!

The below content concerns the 2019 Nordstrom Half-Yearly Sale.

Something on your mind? Chat about it here.

This dress is getting great reviews at Nordstrom, and I love the kicky, flippy ease of it — while still leaving room for lunch, amiright?

It comes in 16 colors and prints (!!!); we're featuring the leopard because why not, but there are a ton of great ones to choose from, including solid black and navy.

This is a great kind of thing to throw on with reader-favorite slipshorts and these best-selling sandals, and head to brunch, errands, or a day date.

The dress is $59, available in regular and petite sizes. A-Line Dress

Sales of note for 9.30.24

And some of our latest threadjacks here at Corporette (reader questions and commentary) — see more here!

Some of our latest threadjacks include:

About Kat

Kat Griffin is the founder, publisher, and editor-in-chief of Corporette. You can read more about her here.

Comments

  1. Ms B

    Points to whoever figures out which color/s the vendor actually carries the petite size run in. Beats me.

    • Anonymous

      You click on your size, such as “Medium P” (Petite sized medium) and then the color circles change to show you which colors are available in that size and which are out of stock.

  2. Inspired By Hermione

    I want to make doughnuts for a friend. I would usually just buy them but I really would like to make them. I feel like frying them may be a poor idea with my minimal cooking skills, so does anyone have any ideas for baked doughnuts that are more or less similar to normal doughnuts, or as close as it can get?

  3. Inspired by Hermione

    I want to make doughnuts for a friend this weekend. Haven’t done it before. Not exactly excited about frying (I’m not great at stuff like that) but also not completely opposed. Does anyone have any favorite recipes? Baked would be great but fried it there’s no way to make a good baked doughnut.

    Tips are also appreciated.

  4. Anonymous

    What’s everyone spring drink? Looking for something other than rose…

    • SC

      It feels like summer, not spring, so these may not be what you’re looking for. There’s a local sour beer I’m enjoying. And I bought a case of Costco Pinot Grigio (the one from Italy, not CA) a few weeks ago for $5.99 a bottle, and it’s good for drinking outside. I also enjoy a dark and stormy or gin and tonic. Good (really good) white vermouth is refreshing in the spring and summer.

      I was also going to suggest an aperol spritz, but the first google result is a NYT article from yesterday saying it’s not a good drink :-) I had a bartender make a good one for me a few weeks ago, but I can’t remember what his “twist” was. But whichever aperatif you prefer in spring or summer if you don’t like aperol.

    • Ribena (formerly Hermione)

      A Hugo! Essentially a white wine spritzer with elderflower cordial and a lime slice.

    • Anon

      We discovered tinto de verano in Spain and it’s my go to for warmer weather.

    • Senior Attorney

      Prosecco 4 evah.

      And for cocktails, I’m into classic daiquiris: Fresh lime juice, a bit of simple syrup, and rum.

    • Skipper

      During the warmer months, I want weak, fruity drinks that aren’t cloying. I like grapefruit juice, tequila, and any citrus-y seltzer. A gin rickey with an immoderate amount of lime juice is hard to beat. And, my absolutely favorite, any seasonal fruit macerated with some raw sugar, muddled with bourbon, and topped with seltzer and a lemon wedge.

    • Rainbow Hair

      I feel like I fall embarrassingly in line with What’s Trendy in Beers Now but I’m so feeling sours and goses and funky fruity ish. For daytime I’m here for some crisp Mexican-style lagers (or oooh a michelada!)… yeah I just want something sessionable and easy for sitting under an umbrella… so basically I’ve jumped straight to summer. Though tonight I’m looking forward to some fancypants limited edition hazy to go with my pepperoni pizza.

      • Anonymous

        Goses are the only beers I drink! Our local brewery makes a really good passionfruit gose and a really good cranberry gose (this one is only available on draft and is expensive haha). The passionfruit we can find canned at the grocery store.

  5. Anon

    On the morning thread someone responded that their child has sensory issues at concerts/fairs/sporting events. This caught my attention because I seem to have developed some of these issues as an adult. If I am somewhere that is unexpectedly too loud (even happened in church once with a very loud organ) I get an immediate fight or flight response that feels like a panic attack. If I remove myself from the situation for awhile I can usually go back in and work through it. I’ve talked to a therapist about it and she thinks I’m doing a good job taking care of myself when it happens but what I’m really trying to do is stop it from happening. Anyone dealt with this?

    Also, to the original poster with the sailing grandmother that wrote a book, I’d love to read the book if you share a link!

    • SC

      That was me. For my son, we do a combination of things. He’s in occupational therapy twice a week, once at the OT’s gym and once at school. (There are other sensory issues and gross and fine motor issues.) He has a daily therapeutic listening program–headphones that also vibrate and a specific program. We keep over-the-ear headphones in our diaper bag and use them in unusually loud environments. (An adult could obviously use earplugs.) There’s also a lot of talk about managing his sensory “diet”–breaks from the noisy classroom, transitioning from the classroom to the playground by having a few minutes of time on the porch with a friend, ice chips to chew on when he’s feeling stressed, etc.

      I’m not sure there’s a way to completely stop it from happening, even as an adult. I’d probably keep ear plugs in my purse and use them if noise started bothering me. If you find that it happens when you’re tired or stressed or at the end of a long day when you’ve already been processing a lot, you could try building “listening breaks” into your schedule.

    • Anonymous

      Don’t assume it’s psychiatric; this is often a neurological symptom that has nothing to do with thoughts and feelings. For me it usually means I need to get more B vitamins and magnesium to keep my nerves healthy, and/or I need to go easy on alcohol/sugar/empty calories/late nights to give my nerves a break.

    • Anon

      It was published privately (although bound professionally) and distributed to friends and family, but thanks for your interest :) It’s a super cute little book and FWIW, she wrote that she never regretted becoming a mother.

    • Anon

      Yes, this is true for me. I get really irritable and distracted in noisy environments. This wasn’t the case when I was younger. I can’t focus on anything and I get mad if people try to talk to me or otherwise expect me to pay attention to anything. As soon as I leave the noisy environment I get relief.

    • The Original ...

      Typically it’s either intensive exposure therapy with the guidance of a licensed specialized professional or it’s preparing for it (wearing earplugs to loud places, not going to loud places, etc.). Otherwise, you can always talk with a professional about taking anxiety medication on an ongoing basis. (This happens to many, especially as our bodies become less able to fight and as our society can become/feel scarier for political or other reasons, you are SO not alone) <3

  6. Anon

    If you’re in Florida, Motorworks Pulp Friction grapefruit IPA. That stuff is awesome. I’m sad that sours are the new “in” beer. I’ve loved IPAs and pale ales since before it was cool and have been reveling in all the good ones the last few years.

    • Anon

      Ha, totally opposite here! I think hops is the devil, and I’m super psyched for lambics and goses to make a comeback.

      • Mpls

        +1 to not being an IPA fan. But I would agree that sours are the new thing in my neck of the woods.

  7. The Original ...

    Sending extra love to everyone who, like me, are struggling with the pro-mom commercials, gifts, movies, etc. Not everyone gets that kind of mom and I hope those of us who got a very different kind spoil ourselves on Monday with discount flowers/candy or otherwise revel in the bad@$$ness of getting out from under toxicity, no matter how much DNA we share with our maternal emotional vampires!

  8. It equality in a relationship possible?

    Last weekend I had a fight with my sister that (to be honest) I started. At 24 she married a divorced 37 year-old with no kids and a lot of money. They have a marriage that looks like it is straight out of the 1950’s. It makes me crazy, especially when my family members talk like marrying a rich older man was a huge accomplishment on her part (while I and my excellent job and high income but no husband and children do not get a lot of respect).

    So I made a catty remark; her husband told me that she is an integral part of his success both personal and professional (and that if a member of his family had spoken to her that way they would be cut off); and the two of us went off to hash it out. It was a good conversation but a couple of things that were said really struck me.

    First (when I asked her husband why he was fighting her battles), his response was “J– C– no wonder you are single. It is not hers, it is ours.” (And then he apologized to HER for his language.) And she suggested I come talk to her about marriage when I had a relationship that got past the honeymoon stage (she has been married 10 years). She said that their marriage is split along pretty traditional lines because that works for them; that she has prioritized peace and happiness over some ideal of equality. She also said that she thinks I am living in dream land if I think I am ever going to have a marriage with children where the physical and emotional labor gets split equally and neither party has to sacrifice professionally.

    I would not want her life or her husband (although I actually like him more now; one of the things I found out this weekend is that she is expecting #3 and has had some problems and he is being super protective). But I would like a husband and children and my time for the latter is running out. My last relationship ended in large part because (despite lip service to the contrary) the guy was never going to take on an equal share.

    So married ladies – especially with kids past infancy – IS it possible? And (it it is), does it lead to endless battles? Or am I holding out for some ideal that almost never actually happens?

    • Anonny

      I don’t think it is possible, that is why I won’t be having children. I love my husband immensely but he would never pull his weight as a dad, and that isn’t a criticism to him it’s a criticism to all men.

    • A

      Ok, I’m almost 49, married at 23 (wt?) and our marriage was the easiest when we had traditional roles. We moved a lot with his job and I would have been seriously under employed, in the hole financially for day care, so I stayed home several times, for approximately 1 yr at a time. I liked it for about 3 months, each time. For various reasons, I felt insecure, lonely, disrespected etc. But everyone else was happy, relaxed, well fed, no arguing who is picking up or staying home with a sick kid, you get the idea.

      I have been back to work full time for about 10 years, the kids are 22 and 18. I feel the best now, my kids are self sufficient, still at home, and I did the bulk of the household and emotional labour. It is has been lots of battles. I fantasize about retiring when the kids are launched and finally doing my own thing. Sorry, but it’s the truth

    • Anon

      It’s possible but I think you need to be very upfront about what you want. I love my kid but I never felt my life would be incomplete without them/wasn’t sure I wanted them until I met husband. It was always understood that he’d be the primary care giver. And he is. He’ll eventually be a stay at home dad. He still gets some stupid comments from his friends and I have to constantly redirect stuff to him (daycare and doctors take a lot of training to call someone other than mom). It’s possible but honestly I think you have to be very clear about what you expect and hold the person to it.

    • Anon

      Yes, I have an equal labor split on the children with my husband, and probably also the house stuff (I know he would say he does more than half). But this was brought about because I am the high earner with a travel heavy schedule, and he was a SAHD for a few years. I have not seen our fairly equitable deal work out with my friends who married high earning men.

      • Anon

        And – I know you acknowledge that you started the fight, but how your sister’s relationship works really isn’t your business unless she has come to you for help or advice

        • Rainbow Hair

          I also think OP should note (and maybe even communicate to her sister that) OP’s frustration might be more about how the family members are comparing them — and it’s unfair to take that out on your sister (even if I definitely understand the instinct to do that). <3

        • Is equality in a relationship possible ?

          Oh believe me I am aware of that. The only thing that made it possible for us to talk was my acknowledgment that I was out of line. Fortunately the relative (an aunt) who got me started is one my sister can’t stand either and I probably got more of a pass than I deserved because of my recent breakup.

          And I have kept my mouth shut about their marriage since it happened but when she first introduced him to the family I made my opinion unfortunately clear. One of the good things about all of this is more respect for her for standing up for herself and a higher opinion of him.

        • Ellen

          I agree. This situeation sounds like mine, with Rosa and her kids and Ed and house in the suburb’s but we get along great! She does not have my brains and work ethic, and I do not think I could manage her life with her kids 24/7,even tho she has a live in to do the shopping/housework and shutteling the kids around all day. Rosa has earned the right to do what she is doing. After all she has to be there for Ed, who many times is like a child himself, and he did once go to a bar and let a dancer sit on his lap, and that was very tramatic for Rosa to learn about, especialy b/c she had always been very open to him in the bedroom, receving back from him far less then she gives. So to each her own, I say, what’s good for the goose is good for the gender, or whatever, so live your life as best you can and hope for the best, and if we are lucky, it will all be good for us! YAY!!!

      • Anon

        Agree with this soo much. I don’t know anyone married to a man who is a high earner that has equality.

        • Rainbow Hair

          Ha I wrote a novel down there but I should’ve just started and ended with “have you considered getting with a man who works a job that will never pay even close to as much as yours?”

          • Anon

            Yup. It sounds crazy but I think it’s actually really good advice. It’s not fair or right but I think if jobs are equal-Ish (or man earning more) in terms of earning potential, it is really really really hard to fight against social norms, unequal parental leave, women generally “putting up” with more of the grunt work, etc and not fall into a situation where the woman ends up taking on more than her fair share.

      • Ellen

        I would insist that my man do 1/2 of the house chores, even tho I alrady have a cleaneing lady, b/c I am the owner of the apartement. I do not think letting a man have s-x with me gives him right to sponge off of my good nature, and eat my food, as my ex did. I am now smart and do not think much of most men’s s-exueal abilities. FOOEY!

    • Anon

      I think true equality is possible but rare. My husband earns significantly more than me and does at least 50 percent of the household chores, and probably roughly half the childcare. However he also has a very flexible job and works from home a lot (professor) so he’s not in an office 60 hours/week and he doesn’t that travel much. Most of my friends don’t have husbands who shoulder a completely equal load, but most of them are still in two working parent families and no one has leaned out dramatically (eg everyone is employed at least 40 hours/week in a field that requires their education). So it’s not equal but it’s very far from the 1950s.

    • Rainbow Hair

      To be perfectly honest, there will be battles to fight. Just like white folks (like me!) are always going to have to check ourselves for the racism we’ve absorbed, are always going to have to work to dismantle the white supremacy that lives inside us, so too the best of men grew up in this world and have to engage in a continual process of unlearning toxic masculinity etc. (and women will have to fight their internalized sexism sometimes too). But I think you can find a good guy, one who’s committed to self improvement, open to criticism, willing to learn. Then you’ll have a guy you can collaborate with to grow the family you want.

      My husband is a SAHD, and has been for more than 3 of my kid’s 4 years, and here are some notes from my experience:

      It’s hard for me to navigate how much it’s ‘fair’ to ask him to do, vs. how much I should be doing, with house stuff, childcare, etc. Especially since I travel for work, and that means that sometimes for a week at a time he’s running the whole thing alone. And then there’s the fact that there are things I’m better at and more comfortable with that fall into the “primary parent” bucket — making appointments, arranging babysitting, filling out forms, etc. And there are things I sort of ‘want’ to do that take away from work time that maybe I should just let him do alone (doctors appointments, being home with her when she’s sick). And any time I’m away from home that’s not for work, it feels like I’m asking him to work a longer shift. So yeah, we sometimes argue/disagree about those things, or like, when I come home from work exhausted and the kid immediately latches onto me and then he asks me, testily, to put my laundry (that he washed and folded) as he disappears to our bedroom to have a few minutes of alone time, I’ll snap at him… or when I breeze home from work after he’s had a long day with her, and I smooch them and eat some of the dinner he cooked and then breeze back out to a social thing, he’ll grumble about how he wishes he could do that, and I’ll note that he *could* go do a social thing on a weeknight if he made the effort… yeah, we’re not always both at our best. But we usually talk it out, we truly don’t hold resentments, and it’s fine.

      It’s hard for him to have his work and identity and day wrapped up in a capricious 4 year old. There’s been a schedule shift with preschool and he’s spending much more time with her than he had been, and I can see it grating on him. I’ve suggested therapy, to shore up his toolbox for dealing with her, and he just shuts it down. Partially that’s due to his personal history, but partially it’s due to nonsense manliness stuff. But I am confident we’ll work through it, and come up with something that works for the three of us. I know that he wants to be the best possible parent for our kid, and I believe that he’ll put in the work to get there.

      But in spite of that manliness nonsense, he has no shame at all about doing house stuff, all that traditional “women’s” work. He does 80% of the laundry (I’m a little brat about my delicates so he leaves them for me), 90% of the grocery shopping, 90% of the cooking (including researching healthy recipes, etc.), 99% of the cleaning (except for spills and such), 100% of the lunch packing, 90% of the school drop off and pick up, 100% of the house maintenance (including hiring people to do things) and yard work, etc. He doesn’t get weird at all when people ask “what do you do?” — “I’m a stay-at-home dad.”

      So I guess in a way, things don’t get split “equally” at all. He does a lot more of some things, and I do all the breadwinning, and we constantly negotiate who is carrying what weight with the kid. But there is pretty much nothing he assumes I will do because I’m the woman in the relationship, and I think that’s a good foundation.

      • Anon

        Equality is both people having the option to do what makes them happy. It sounds like your sister’s happy, not in danger, and hurting no one with her choices, but your the one who has a problem with what makes her happy. You don’t seem worried about your sister, you seem both jealous of her happiness and worried that if her way is the only way then you’ll never have what you want so you’re deflecting.

        There’s more than one way to skin a cat. The way she does it may not necessarily be the way you do it. But having kids takes a huge time commitment. Obviously, that time has got to be from somewhere and most high powered careers don’t leave much left over. To do a complete fifty-fifty split will often times be harder to orchestrate than both people doing what they can, when they can, with the child’s best interests in mind. One person’s job may be better suited to childcare then the other. But in general, I’d just recommend against having kids if an exact 50-50 split is what you’re after. You’ll spend more time fretting over whether things are equal than focusing on being the best parent you can be regardless of your spouse’s choices.

    • Anon

      I think if you want to have kids and not make any career sacrifices you need: 1) a partner who is willing/able to take on the primary parent role, 2) local family (grandparents, etc) who will effectively be a third parent or 3) the money and willingness to hire 60+ hours per week of childcare help. You can’t necessarily predict how you will feel until you have kids. Pre-kid I would have told you I was going to be #3 but then I had a baby and I didn’t want her to spend 60 hours with a nanny. Quality time matters, but quantity matters too, and it was just too much for me so I leaned way out.

    • Anonymous

      I’m kinda on team sister. Sure, there are some primary caregiver dads, and that’s great, but for many marrieds, a more traditional arrangement works better. She is happy, seems like her husband has good character, so who cares if she does all the laundry?

    • Anon

      I think you’re focused too much on the proxies for a good marriage and not enough on what makes for a good marriage. Marriage is hard work. Marriage requires intense sacrifices from both people. When one person is hurt and has a battle to fight, it’s both people’s battle, because the hurt affects both people.

      I got married recently and late in life (late 30s). I love how my husband puts our marriage first, and I worry that I fall grievously short in the same. It’s not about “equality” – we both really try to put the other person first. That does not mean that we have any type of marriage – traditional, modern, equal, etc. – it just means that we try really hard to work on our marriage.

      • Sadie

        I also totally agree with this and a lot of what others have said. But I do want to specifically address one thing you asked, OP, because I feel like it’s getting overlooked. Everyone is giving you good advice about not sacrificing anything in your career if you have kids by having a partner who, essentially, is willing to be the one to lean out.

        But you said “She also said that she thinks I am living in dream land if I think I am ever going to have a marriage with children where the physical and emotional labor gets split equally and neither party has to sacrifice professionally.”

        Then you asked basically if you’re kidding yourself. To the extent you seem to be asking if two career oriented, high earning, successful business people can raise kids where NEITHER of them has to cut back, lean out, etc…the answer is NO, unless you hire full time live in help or grandma/grandpa or something lives really close by. Then sure. Whether that’s the life you want is a different question, but no, you cannot have kids in a dual income household where BOTH people have intensive careers and everything is always equal and neither of them take any hits. Someone has to leave early when a kid gets sick and has to be picked up from school. Someone has to be able to take them to activities and classes. Someone has to show up to the school play. Usually someone’s job is more accommodating to that. But then there are consequences for having been the one to do it.

        • Anon

          +1 kids take up a lot of time. That time doesn’t appear out of thin air. Something has to give.

        • Anonymous

          ” Someone has to leave early when a kid gets sick and has to be picked up from school. Someone has to be able to take them to activities and classes. Someone has to show up to the school play. Usually someone’s job is more accommodating to that. But then there are consequences for having been the one to do it.”

          There’s also the small problem of, most parents WANT to be there for those things. Now that having kids is a choice for most people, most people who choose to have kids want to be present for the big and little moments of childhood. You can’t get those moments back if you miss them. I know a couple of moms of adult kids who admitted to me that their biggest regret is working too much or traveling too much when their kids were small. I don’t want to have those kinds of regrets. So I just declined to apply for a manager position at work because it would involve working long hours, and lots of travel, and to me it’s not worth it to miss those moments with my child. He will be grown before long and as I said above – if I miss critical moments with him, I can’t get that time back.

          I feel I have a very egalitarian marriage, my husband does easily 50% of the parenting and the housework, but we also are not hard-charging career people, largely because we don’t want to be. We both agreed early on in our relationship that it was more important for us to have a comfortable life where we had enough (money, time, etc.) than it was to climb to the top of the ladder at work and work a ton and have more than we needed. We actually have pleasantly ended up in a situation where we have more than we need without working more than we want to (and I feel super-grateful for that, we are very lucky). We are now both getting presented with management opportunities but are weighing them carefully against our desired work/life balance. To me, it’s all about the idea that no one ever says on their deathbed “I wish I had spent more time at work.” If the OP feels differently, I would say yes – she is going to have to find someone who is not hard-charging and ladder-climbing to partner with, or else I don’t know that an egalitarian relationship is possible (or at least I have never seen it). I have seen “power couple” relationships where the couple doesn’t have kids. But two big careers plus kids where there’s equal split between spouses on parenting/household duties and there’s not a *lot* of household help? I will admit I have never seen that, personally. I think that is one of the myths we’ve been fed by the media – that such a situation is common.

          • Anonymous

            +1. For us, the choice isn’t between working and being a stay at home parent. It’s much more nuanced, what level of job allows me to have an acceptable level of income and job satisfaction while also keeping space for preferred levels of family and me time. It takes some soul searching to say, nope, I don’t want that high level job, and for me, it helped immensely that my husband has been willing to voice that first.

    • Anonymous

      Equality is overrated and TBH true, split-down-the-middle equality is beyond rare. But is a two-parent, two-earner household possible where both feel valued and not overburdened? Yes, but it depends on what it looks like FOR YOU. My equality =\= my friends’ equality and that’s okay.
      Example: DH and I split things in ways that appear insane to many parents. He primarily WFH so he is the default dropoff, pickup, sick kid parent. He was on travel this week so i wound up on the phone with Big Boss at 7am one day explaining that I wasn’t in the office yet bc I had to “be dad” for a bit. He was taken aback but gracious enough to acknowledge that he’s an old fuddy-duddy :-).
      Now, this is possible primarily bc I have earned a lot of credibility and respect in my current role, and I can have the flexibility to support a partner who travels way more than me, so that HE can have a job that allows him to be the default parent on most days, to support ME (I an def the high earner). Neither would be possible without the other. I do 99% of the cooking, he does 99% of the laundry. Etc. There are VERY FEW aspects of life that we actually split down the middle and it’s a highly idiosyncratic split. But we are both happy and our kids are both happy. So it’s possible, as long as the conditions and your mindset are in the right places.
      Actual advice – I think you want a beta, and someone who is confortable in their own skin and won’t have a problem bucking societal norms.

    • Never too many shoes...

      I think it is possible but quite rare. I earn 54% of my household income but have more upward mobility (I’m a lawyer, he is a corporate department manager). We outsource cleaning. I do more than half of the house stuff (groceries, cooking, tidying/organizing) and he does the majority of outside of school childcare for our special needs kid. I took five months of maternity leave and he took two months after thatnlf paternity leave. So I feel my marriage is pretty equal but, truthfully, it is also pretty unusual.

    • Anon

      It is quite possible to have equality in marriage in my experience, but I think you have to be prepared to be flexible in order to achieve it. True equality is achieved when you work as a team, not when each of you compares to the other, and you need to define it in a way that is constructive and fair to both of you. In our case we agreed very early on that equality at home meant equal free time and equal priority tot he personal inetersts of both, with together/family time a higher priority. We also agreed we both dont care about traditional roels. So that has meant that over the years who does how much of what has changed (who was the higher earner has also changed, sometimes dramatically) back and forth, over 17 years. The one working less outside of the home (without regard to earnings, just time and effort spent, although they mostly coincide) does less and the other one more to the degree that we never end up where A is doing hobbies or is lounging on the sofa while B is working their butt off on chores or is on kid duty. We have both been in these roles equally over the 17 years. We have also slowly shifted and rotated duties as seemed most fit at the time so each of us can, and has done, everything house and kid related. We still adapt and change when circumstances change enough.

      The other par tof the flexibility I am talking about is that you may not necessarily find a guy who will be an equal partner on day one, but they totally have to be very, very willing to be equal and learn how. You can usually tell. If you want to look for someone who is already there, that is completely fine! But in my case, I fell in love with someone who is kind, fair and open minded in general, and not stuck on traditional roles, and who was wiling to listen and adapt to me as I to him from day one. So the first months of co-habitation I had to point out every time he slipped into some archetypical gender role pattern and remind him of our “equal free time, enough time togehter” rule but he was always ready to acknowldge it and adjust. So no, there werent fights, but there were many course corrections over the first year. (We lived together for 3 before marrying). And I had to be willing to use my words, learn to assume goodwill and genuine mistakes on his part instead of resistance or maliciousness, and be ready to let standards slip when we were both so busy at work that it would have killed us to try to maintain a perfect household. So time to rest, talk and cuddle, and play and talk to kid has always beat having a clean house or fancy dinner (provided basic health and safety has been met and there is some kind if food on the table).

      I dont know if that is helpful but that is how it worked for us. It can take a few years to socialise a guy into doing equally things at hme, including takind equal initiative (scheduling, emotional albour…) and being an equal parent, when they have been socialised into doing things differently, but if he is open and truly willing, and his identity amd worth is not tied into traditional geneder roles and trimmings of “masculinity” it can totally work.

    • Trixie

      I applaud the conversation that you had with your BIL and your sister–but I agree with others, that you need to just get out of their choices. In this swirl of thinking that you are having about career, children and marriage, you are not including the fact that you will love your children, adore them, and want to be with them and want the best for them. You can hire lots of help, especially for cleaning, cooking, laundry, yard work, etc. But you cannot hire love and devotion. And, you will want to be there for soccer moments, the lead in plays, first steps, etc. Truly! Perhaps you will be happiest marrying a less high achieving man who is happy to do most of the parenting. Nonetheless, even the high achieving parent feels left out. I was the low earner in my marriage, and my husband made/makes many times what I do. I was furious, depressed, and crushed that I gave up so much to make our household work. Do I regret having children? No, I love my two grown sons, and I am glad I was as dedicated as I was as a mom. My career took off again as they got older, and I felt satisfaction again in my work. Life is not monotone–most people shift in values as they get older and look at the world differently. As the cliche says, “No one says ‘I wish I had spent more time at the office’ when on their death bed.” Full equality is not possible, imho, if you want two high achieving people, children, and no career sacrifices. Children just need too much attention–the key is you are forgetting that you will love them to pieces.

    • Luc

      I have an equal relationship with my hubby. I’m an academic, he’s an engineer. I’m more career focused than he is – he works to earn money to do other stuff, whereas I genuinely love my job. We have one son, now aged 14. I reckon the trick is to start how you intend to finish. When my son was small we both negotiated to go to work part time, and he had some daycare as well, which we gradually built up until he went to preschool. I was always totally upfront with my partner that I would work after kids, even before I had a tenured position. Now, he’s looking to step back a bit more from work – perhaps go part time again if possible. But for many years we have both worked FT but prioritised our kid at all other times. We both earn about the same, and not stressing about money is good for a relationship! We have cleaners, and when he was smaller had a nanny so he didn’t have to go to after school care much, which he disliked. We also both have some flexibility to work at home one day a week, sometimes two, which is helpful. I think it really can be done without too much stress, if you choose a partner who WANTS to do it, and are really clear along the way.

  9. Yep

    There’s nothing wrong with being a SAHM. If one person stays at home, they ARE a key part of the other’s success outside the home. I think it’s sad that you judge your sister and other SAHPs.

    To answer your question, my husband and I both work full time and share the load at home, including kid stufd. We have entirely different home responsibilities though, so there’s no need to discuss. I don’t know if it’s 50/50, but I see no need to count because I’m happy. ALSO I will say that as we both are making great money, we can outsource things we don’t like (cleaning the house). That said, I want to stay at home about 5 years from now and I don’t think I’ll be less of a person when I do.

    Last, the idea that you can be a good parent (or do any other significant time-intensive endeavor) without sacrificing anything is a strange idea to me.

    • Anon

      I agree with this. Your family members who are negatively comparing you to your sister sound terrible, but you must know that’s not your sister’s fault. Nothing in your OP suggests she’s judging you for you choices, and you shouldn’t judge her for hers. If this arrangement works for them, that’s great. And I think she’s 100% right that her being a SAHM is a huge boost to her husband’s professional success (and good for her husband for sticking up for her and staying this their battle, not hers!). Lots of women on the moms page talk about the fact that it’s REALLY hard to have a Big Law-esque job without a stay at home spouse or incredibly involved local grandparents (which the majority of people do not have).

  10. Blueberries

    In my experience in the US, your sister is right that it’s pretty difficult to have children and “neither party has to sacrifice professionally.” With respect to how you view and split that sacrifice, anything is possible.

    In many careers, a typical pregnancy is going to lead to some sacrifice professionally (at minimum, you have doctor appointments and have to plan to be unavailable to your office for the birth), as is going on parental leave. Ideally, you both take a good chunk of parental leave.

    Kids don’t fit neatly into many kinds of high-powered careers. With money, you can hire enough staff so that neither of you ever has to cover a sick day or a random day school is closed or has to say no to working late. You can always be available to your work and get the professional rewards that come with that availability, but lose out on time with your children. Or, the parents don’t hire a team of nannies and make some professional sacrifices.

    • Sadie

      this. You’re going to sacrifice with either time or money, you choose which. Kids require sacrifice. That’s not a negative or a bad thing but let’s be real.

      • Housecounsel

        Exactly what Sadie said. And I think you’re judging your sister and her marriage way too hard. My husband and I were both partners in law firms. We had a full-time nanny and I guess you could say that the labor was split pretty equally, albeit along traditional gender lines (this is all fine; I don’t want to handle yard or car maintenance). I chose to scale way back. I now work from home and make less money and do a lot more of the kid-related duties. I am so much happier now. I want to hang out with these amazing now-teenagers. It doesn’t feel like a chore or a sacrifice. Did I give up career equality? Maybe. Do I regret it or think I got the short end? Not at all.

    • Anon

      As a style yes. I have them in another style (still leather) and other Naturaliser leather shoes and unfortunately, they have been using synthetic lining for yeats now. FYI this particular model really makes my feet sweat so some kind of hosiery is mandatory with them and even then…

      For comfy but presentable work heels, I know Hush Puppies and Clarks make all-leather (inside and out) shoes. These can also work very well for an interview and they are beautiful, but make sure not to wear them on bare feet after the interview.

  12. Day Dreaming

    If you had the time, money, support from your job, etc. and could go to any conference, retreat, symposium, etc. what would you choose? A yoga retreat? A cruise with a band you love? A week of immersive french language classes in Paris? I’m daydreaming while ignoring Mother’s Day this weekend.

      • Davis

        These sound great! I’d love to hike the Appalachian Trail, but that’s probably too far afield from the question. I’d love to see the real deal TED in person too!

    • Anonymous

      Late but, I would go somewhere to train taekwondo for a month, maybe even two. I am vaguely of the understanding that they have that in Korea, but with having to have a real job I don’t think I have the time or money to do it other than in my fantasies. I’m a pretty good red belt who would love to become a really good black belt!

  13. CA Mom

    Recommendations needed!
    You all have helped out so much in the past (Salty Girl in Boston, Hotel Vermont in Burlington)…

    Now we are headed to Copenhagen (3 nights) and then Oslo (just one day and night) and would love any food recommendations or must see places. It is short notice so I don’t have as much time to research as I normally do.

    It is a mom and her 18 year old who love food. We will then be continuing on to 7 days in Svalbard (who the heck has heard of Svalbard??)

    Thanks for any advice for traveling, we have never been to any of these places, we have our flights and hotel secured, will be traveling end of June – next month!!!

    • Anon

      No advice about Copenhagen or Oslo, but I’ve heard of Svalbard and it’s very high on my bucket list…polar bears!

    • IMMJ

      Oslo – take a look at Rick Steve’s book about Norway and do what he says. Years ago I was making a detailed itinerary for my husband and son to follow to see Oslo while I took a deposition, and after lots of work I realized it was exactly what Steves recommended. I really liked the city hall tour (I think of city halls as Scandinavia’s cathedrals). Be sure to stroll along the harbor front, where there’s lots of life and good restaurants as well. The Viking Ship museum is great, and most importantly you can take a ferry to get there – getting out into the fjord is wonderful. The Resistance Museum is stunning. I was going to recommend the art museum and its Munch paintings, but it looks like it’s closed while it moves to new quarters. I’m not a huge fan of Vigeland Park; it’s fine but skippable. Oslo is less cosmopolitan than Copenhagen (which I don’t know very well), but it’s a sweet small city and almost everyone, including the bus drivers, speaks English.
      Too bad you won’t see western Norway, which may be the most beautiful place in the world. (See Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy: “I got an award for it.”) Have fun in Svalbard and bring lots of layers.

      • OP

        Excellent thank you! I’m going to do the ferry to the Viking museum and eat on the waterfront – walking around there

    • Anne

      I have lived in both Copenhagen and Oslo. The recommendations kind of depend on what you like, apart from food, though.

      If you are in either city on St. John’s Eve (June 23) – try to head for a beach for the traditional bonfire. In Copenhagen there is one at Amager strand park, in Oslo, there is a very traditional celebration, typically, at the Folk museum

      For Copenhagen,
      the Little Mermaid can really be a disappointment, as it is really small and er… quite a lot of tourists hanging about, but at the same time, it is one of the major tourist attractions, so I guess it kind of depends on what you want to do.

      I really love The Round Tower, where you get a very good view of Copenhagen from the top. https://www.yelp.com/biz/rundetaarn-københavn-k

      The Crown Jewels are on display at Rosenberg Castle, and worth a visit. Tivoli, the amusement park, is also worth a visit. .

      I also think that the boat tour on the harbour is quite fun, and I always used to bring visitors with me to do that when I lived there.

      The design museum is kind of cool: https://www.yelp.com/biz/designmuseum-danmark-københavn-2

      Food:
      I love Smagsløget – getting a huge sandwich and going to sit and eat it in the nearby park if the weather is okay. https://www.yelp.com/biz/smagsløget-copenhagen

      There is also a place called Grød – which only serves porridge: https://www.yelp.com/biz/grød-københavn

      And in June, the ice cream shop, such as Ismageriet is probably something you want to do: https://www.yelp.com/biz/ismageriet-københavn-s-2

      For Oslo:
      One suggestion: Take the subway up to Frognersetern to get an view of the city, stop at Vigelandsparken on the way back to see the sculptures.

      Another suggestion: The Viking ship museum is cool, but there is also the folk museum at Bygdøy (not far from the viking ships) where they have collected houses and churches and stuff from all over Norway to give a representation of how life was. https://www.yelp.com/biz/norsk-folkemuseum-oslo-3 Out there, is also Oscarshall – a royal pleasure palace – which I really enjoyed visiting.

      The royal palace in the city center have tours in the summer, but you have to book tickets in advance.

      For eating, there are quite a few places on Grünerløkka, and the coffee at Tim Wendelboe is award winning.

      But I would really just check out Yelp for eating both places.

    • Loved Copenhagen!

      Food
      • Warning that lots of places are “open” until 11pm or midnight, but we would show up at 9pm only to find out the kitchen had closed (or was closing very soon).
      • Denmark/Copenhagen hot dogs – one of the “national foods”
      o We checked this box off at John’s Hotdog Deli, located in the Meatpacking District (see below), but there is a stand at Copenhagen Central Station (see below)
      o https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/copenhagen/johns-hotdog-deli-gdk1098456
      o Would recommend if your family likes hot dogs / no vegetarians (or they will be eating French fries and hot dog toppings)
      • Nyhavn (“New harbor”)
      o We ate lunch at one of the restaurants on the canal. It was full of tourists but a lovely view and good for people watching.
      o Vaffelbageren – https://www.yelp.com/biz/vaffelbageren-k%C3%B8benhavn-k
       Terrific ice cream. Open until midnight so we had an 11:30 pm ice cream break on our last night there and took a walk through Nyhavn over to Amalienborg Palace to see it at night.
      • Torvehallerne – (https://torvehallernekbh.dk/)
      o Food market with lots of different options. Picnic tables are located outside so you can eat together once everyone has something they want.
      • Norrebro Bryghus – http://www.noerrebrobryghus.dk/en
      o Our most expensive meal of the trip, since we did a three course dinner. It was quite good (and we enjoyed the beer).
      • Meatpacking district – this is the “hot” restaurant area, so you will find lots of options here (including a BBQ (Warpigs) co-owned by an American brewery, Three Floyds) in addition to the below
      o Mother – http://motherrestaurant.dk/take-a-seat/ – Fancy pizzas – we had a Sunday dinner here since it was open and we were looking for something non-Nordic-y
      o Kødbyens Fiskebar – http://fiskebaren.dk/en/fiskebaren/ – Seafood/fish. We were told that the kitchen here is open late (“11pm”), FYI
      • Others that I had tagged to potentially try, but we never made it:
      o Schønnemann’s – http://www.restaurantschonnemann.dk/ – lunch only; to get your smorgasboard fix
      o Rabes Garden – https://spiseliv.dk/rabeshave – Old Danish food and pub; only open for lunch; to get your smorgasboard fix

      o Hija de Sanchez – http://www.hijadesanchez.dk/ – tacos!
      o Kiin Kiin Bao Bao – http://www.kiinbao.dk/ – bao
      o Host – https://cofoco.dk/en/restaurants/hoest/ – New Nordic – expensive
      o Amass – https://amassrestaurant.com/ – New Nordic – expensive
      o Pony – http://www.ponykbh.dk/kbh_uk.php – New Nordic – expensive-ish
      o Scarpetta – https://cofoco.dk/en/restaurants/scarpetta-rantzausgade – Italian

      Copenhagen Card
      • https://copenhagencard.com/
      • Purchase in 24, 48, 72, 128 hour increments depending on how long you are in Copenhagen/North Zealand
      • Your 8 year old can utilize your adult card, but your other two kids will need an adult or children’s card, it appears
      • Gets you into all major attractions (Viking Museum, Tivoli, Fredericksborg Castle, Kronberg Castle, Louisiana Museum, etc.) and transport (trains, busses, ferries, etc.).
      • As I mentioned, I used the iPhone app on the fly a lot to get easy access to attraction hours/locations and public transportation maps. I’d download it even if you decide not to buy the card.
      • We easily saved a couple hundred dollars because we used so much public transportation to get to places (plus the peace of mind of not needing to buy tickets tied to zones) and hit the more expensive tourist sites (castles, Tivoli, canal boat tours, etc.).
      • If covered by the card, I put a ** next to it below.

      Sites – you will find yourself at Copenhagen Central Station a lot if you take public transit; we found which bus near our hotel brought us there (#66) the fastest on our first day in the city
      • Note: A lot of Copenhagen museums/sites are closed on Mondays so we spent the day at Frederiksborg Castle and the town of Hillerod (easy train ride from Copenhagen Central Station to Hillerod).
      • City proper:
      o Rent bicycles from your hotel or one of the city stands and take a bike ride around the city/canals
      o Boat tours**
       Notes:
      • There are two different companies included in the card. We did both on different days since we enjoyed being on the water so much.
      • There were several sites we never “visited” but saw from the boat which was plenty enough (i.e., the Little Mermaid statute).
      o Tivoli Gardens** – https://www.tivoli.dk/en/
       Note: The card will get you into the gardens, but will need to purchase ride tickets or an unlimited ride pass separately.
      o Carlsberg Brewery** – http://www.visitcarlsberg.com/
       Note: This may have age restrictions – should check.
      o National Aquarium** – https://denblaaplanet.dk/en/
       Note: Open late on Mondays.
      o Christiansborg Palace** – http://kongeligeslotte.dk/en/palaces-and-gardens/christiansborg-palace.html
      o Gulptoteket Museum** – https://www.glyptoteket.com/
       Note: Open late on Thursdays.
      o Note: I would have liked to do the following but ran out of time:
       Boat rental – http://www.friendships.dk/en/boat-rental-christianshavn/
       See crown jewels – http://www.kongernessamling.dk/en/rosenborg/
       Christiana (boho commune—no cash or photos permitted)
       Swim in the canals. People are jumping into the canals all over Copenhagen. It was a bit odd!

      • Day trips:
      o Frederiksborg Castle** – http://www.dnm.dk/UK/Forside.htm
       Note: There is a boat that travels around the moat and it is included in the Copenhagen Card. We didn’t end up doing it since we didn’t want to wait another 30 minutes (ready to take a break at a café).
      o Kronborg Castle** – http://kongeligeslotte.dk/en/palaces-and-gardens/kronborg-castle.html
       Note: When we were there, the trains were not running to Helsingor, where the castle is located so we had to take a train to a station and then take an express bus. It was actually faster. BUT, we then went to the Louisiana, and getting from Louisiana back to Copenhagen via bus/train took almost 2 hours (so much longer). Hopefully, the trains are running again when you go.
      o Louisiana Museum of Art** – https://en.louisiana.dk
       Note: Combine with Kronborg (see note above) since open late.
       Closed on Mondays, but open until 10pm during the week.
       You can bring your swimsuit and utilize the docks near the museum to take a swim.
      o Viking Museum / Roskilde Cathedral** – http://www.vikingeskibsmuseet.dk/
       Note: We enjoyed the “sailing voyage” that’s an upcharge.

    • Walnut

      No advice, but I’ve daydreamed about a trip to Svalbard. I loooove travel to places no one else goes.

    • SSJD

      I was in Copenhagen for work many years ago in August and enjoyed the botanical garden. I also walked around Tivoli, a lovely old amusement park.

  14. New to NOVA

    Happy weekend all! Looking for a real estate agent recommendation — we’re renting in Arlington VA right now, but looking to buy on a lakefront in Reston. Anyone have a good experience with a particular agent? TIA!

  15. Is equality in a relationship possible?

    First – thank you for everyone who commented. And yes – I know I was “not very nice” (to use my mother’s phrase) to my sister. Although I will say that if I came onto this site with a story about how my sister married an older, divorced man and quit her job to have kids and was now getting divorced for a younger women, I suspect at lot of people would be talking about how unwise it was for her to give up her financial independence. (I essentially said that to my BIL – without this reference to this site – and even he agreed that was a valid concern in the abstract.)

    My initial query was poorly worded. Obviously if you have kids, you are going to be giving up time, effort and money. It is going to impact careers. My question was more whether there really are relationships where that burden (both physical, emotional and professional) gets spread equally. A lot of women come here and complain that their partners will do things that are assigned but won’t be proactive. My general read of the comments is that an equal split is not really something that happens outside very rare circumstances (although sometimes it is the husband who takes on that load) – which is disheartening but good to know.

    At any rate – thank you all. Happy Mother’s Day to the people who have kids, have mothers they get along with, have mothers they do NOT get along with, have lost their mothers, have chosen not to be mothers, who are enjoying the day and who can’t wait for it to be over.

    • Anon

      I think what you’re not getting is that there’s a difference between believing that someone isn’t making the best choice and telling them that, especially once the decision has been made. I would agree with you that a large number of posters here believe that leaving the workforce completely and becoming fully financially dependent on your spouse is a risky decision and not a choice they would make or advise a friend to make (although certainly not all – there are current and former SAHMs that post here, as well as quite a few posters with SAHD husbands). But she isn’t asking you for advice, it was a decade ago now that she made this decision, it seems to be working for her, and it’s time to let it go.
      Also as someone who is married to a great guy who is older and was married and divorced before we met, I’m not sure why you keep harping on the fact that her husband is older and divorced. These things don’t make him a bad guy or any more likely to leave your sister for a younger woman.

    • LittleBigLaw

      Marriages, like people, are dynamic, and I don’t think it’s as simple as just choosing the right partner, although that obviously is very important. IME it’s less about a relationship “being” equal and more about constantly doing the hard work of communicating, negotiating, and compromising with your partner to find and maintain a balance that works for the two of you as you move through lots of different stages in life. Even with a fully willing partner, achieving equity is hard in the day-to-day. It’s not one big decision to be equal when you get married. It’s the cumulative effect of a million little decisions every day.

      • Anonymous

        Agreed. So many things happen outside of your control that can affect the roles- jobs change, you can’t predict what kind of needs your kids will have, career interests change, the economy changes, etc. At any point, the 50/50 split may or may not make sense for your situation. The most important thing is having a partner who stands beside you in the dedication to making it all work, even it it looks much different than it did a year or a decade ago and you both make those little decisions in furtherance of that goal.

Back to Top

About

Work with Corporette®

Serious Stuff

work fashion blog press mentions