Holiday Weekend Open Thread

139 Comments

1. Does anyone have any favorite resume templates? Or general tips? My org got new upper management who decided my group’s current function is useless. We might be laid off, and at best we’ll be offered the opportunity to move into a new role that’s very different from our current function and isn’t something I have any interest in doing. Either way, I need a new job and haven’t updated my resume in ages.
   Happy Valentine’s Day to me :(

   1. Ask a Manager is a great resource for this!

      1. +1 – it’s really a great resource. I used a couple different resumes on my job search last year – they emphasized certain information based on the kind of job I was applying for. It was extra work at the outset but I think it helped.

      2. Yes! There was a post this week about how to build a resume from scratch.

   2. FWIW, I’m seeing a lot of resumes these days in a graphic designed format (pretty sure you can purchase templates) and they’re slick/ stand out in a good way.

2. I need some time management advice. The number of meetings I’m required to be at has steadily increased in recent months, and I expect that trend to continue. It is killing my productivity. Not just in terms of the time spent in meetings, but I find it very hard to switch back into task mode they’re done. They generally require a lot of focus and input from me, and by the time I’ve had even a couple, I am mentally spent for all but the most menial tasks, which is probably not where I should be focusing my effort. I also think the fact that I’m an introvert plays into this. I can be “on,” but it drains me.

   For context, I’m essentially a mid-level manager. So, in addition to needing to review team members’ work when I return (the part I like), I also need to be focusing on my own projects, which tend to be more long term and strategically focused — and therefore easier to put off until another day.

   I often have little say in when and where meetings will be held, otherwise, I’d implement some sort of block scheduling setup. As it is, I feel bad for my lack of focus, introversion, and tendency to procrastinate — so something has to change.

   1. The only thing that has worked for me has been to decline meetings I don’t absolutely have to be in and to send another team member to those meetings they can handle. If there are calls that require my participation that are not urgent, I ask the leader to reschedule to a time that’s adjacent to another call on my calendar so I don’t waste time task-switching.

      1. I prefer to do my calls back to back to the extent possible. Not only does that let me get out of an inefficient meeting with “gotta go, have another meeting,” but then I don’t waste the small blocks between meetings just screwing around.

   2. I have this problem and what I tend to do is work on the focused stuff in the evenings. I have a lot of flexibility in my work timings and location and live alone/no partner or kids so it works for me to come in at 9.30-10am or leave at 4pm a couple of days a week and then work a couple of evenings to make up the time when there’s no meetings or emails bouncing in with new demands. I realise this is a pretty privileged position to have though.

   3. 1) post-meeting ritual like getting tea or a 10 min walk
      2) leave some of your own longer-term work on your desk for when you return?

   4. I think you HAVE to block meetings with yourself to work on projects, and treat them as just as sacrosanct as you would other meetings / appointments.

   5. I have the benefit of an office with a door and a couch. I recognize not everyone is that lucky. I totally need to unwind post meetings/hearings or else I will just struggle to get anything done the rest of the day. I find the most restorative thing for me is to close my door and to lay down and just appreciate the silence for 5-10 minutes. The key is to stay off social media and blogs during that time. I might respond to a few quick text messages though. Once I have taken that break, then I do a “brain warmup” by reading something work related but boring like an industry article, then I dive into my next project.

   6. I arrive early, work on the most complex tasks, and then leave earlier than I used to after the crush of meetings, as I know I won’t be as productive after them. I also try to run efficient meetings: set a clear agenda, run the meeting discussion, and close out the meeting with clearly stated objectives. If you praise the team for getting through a lot of material efficiently they will over time chew up less time. At some point you then may be able to suggest you meet less frequently.

3. Fun question: What martial arts class should I be looking for? I want to punch and kick a heavy bag or handheld pads, but I don’t want to kick and punch someone else/get kicked and punched because concussions are bad. Sparring that is more grappling might be OK. Basically I want to pretend I am Cara Dune without getting too beat-up. Any recommendations?

   1. Have you considered fencing? Stabbing people is highly therapeutic, and the concussion risk is low.

      1. Kayne East! Feel like you haven’t been around in a while. Welcome back.

         1. It’s been years. Thanks!

   2. We have kickboxing and boxing classes in my city that fit this! The sparring is only in special classes (clearly designated as such) at those gyms. The specific gyms I’m thinking about are actually a boxing gym and an MMA gym, but you’d definitely want to call or talk to someone who goes there if you want to be double sure.

   3. Kickboxing.

   4. Kickboxing. I go to a women’s kickboxing class at a local MMA gym, and love it. It’s a great chance to get my aggression out, and get a great workout. I tried coed classes in the past but never stuck with it because they were too macho for me. But the women’s classes are great and super supportive.

   5. I did martial arts seriously for ten years and never got a concussion or even heard of anybody getting a concussion. And I sparred almost daily.

      That said, in my area we have a lot of cardio kickboxing classes where you just kick the bag.

      1. And punch the bag. :) It’s very fun!

   6. This is the way!

   7. This is a bit off, but if you have Barre Code near you, they offer (well, at least mine offers) a class called Brawl, where you are doing the same motions as you would in a boxing class (jab, uppercut, etc.) but you’re not actually hitting anything. Might that suit your needs?

   8. If you’re in a city that offers it (I think it’s NYC, Philly, DC, and SF right now) I absolutely LOVE rumble boxing. Half the class you hit the bag, the other half you do bench work, they’re 45 of really good efficient workout. I’m a big fan.

4. How do you wear jeans like the above if you have junk in the trunk and heavy thighs? It has to be with a longer top, right? Otherwise it seems the stirpes would only emphasize hip saddlebags. In theory these are very cool.

   1. Or you just wear another pair of jeans.

5. What are your favorite relaxed weekend t-shirts? Easy care, not too clingy or sheer, come in XL or 1X… and go!

   1. Following. I like madewell but they’re thin.

   2. Land’s End, honestly. I like the softness of pima cotton, they’re thicker than mall store t-shirts, and I like the rainbow of colors they come in.

      Make sure you buy them when there’s some sort of coupon code, which there almost always is.

   3. Universal Standard – not see thru, easy care, not clingy (per my experience), broad range of sizes!

6. Advice on dealing with colleague you have to rely on for deliverables that continually drops the ball….I ask nicely and clearly specify what is needed, I hold them accountable to deadlines, we have daily checkpoints for status including their boss, and clear requests from customer and the resource still fails to deliver. I am the manager and this person’s deliverables are critical to our success with a large customer. This person does not report to me. I am tired of worrying about what they won’t deliver and unfortunately this could result in lost business. Alerted my leadership team of this risk. So disappointed and disgusted at the lack of professionalism.

   1. Sorry the cog in your corporate machine is stuck. Can you experiment with considering this “resource” a “person” and try to find out what’s going on with the person that makes it hard for them to do their job? I would be surprised if it’s just that they’re too dumb or don’t give enough shits.

      1. Given the number of colleagues I’ve had recently who sound just like the OP’s, I would NOT be surprised at all if it’s just that they’re too dumb or DGAF

         1. +1. If OP was this person’s manager, seeing what’s going on with them would make sense, but since she’s not, what’s she going to do to help? If there’s something personal going on, OP can’t give her leave/flexibility/etc., and if there’s not she can’t do anything about addressing her performance.

            1. Yeah this is not a problem with the “resource” anymore, it’s a problem with their manager.

               Honestly I think you’ve done all you can. You’ve documented, had the extra meetings/checkpoints, and let leadership know what’s going on. If the customer cuts ties, you have a clear chain of evidence showing how that happened. That you’re feeling “disgusted” makes it seem like you’re giving this more mental space than is needed.

         2. OP here…This. Escalated matter to leadership this afternoon. Done.

            1. Thank you pugsnbourbon – OP here….it is mentally exhausting. My husband commented yesterday that I’m babysitting this person. That made me think I have to move away from this situation. You’re right – I’ve been giving it too much mental energy. Thank you – your comment is super helpful.

            2. Not sure if you’re still reading, but Ask A Manager answered a similar question today: https://www.askamanager.org/2020/02/my-coworker-makes-mistakes-that-affect-my-work.html

      2. I am a normally high performer who became this employee when I had a bout of depression that coincided with a medical problem.

   2. I become this person when I am too busy on competing projects that either also hold significant financial impact or are more time sensitive in nature. Your deadline means a lot to you, but it overlooks any other deadlines that may be going on. (Likely why the boss who is also included in these meetings isn’t making resources for your project. ) I also think you need to reassess roles here. Saying you are the manager and “hold them accountable” is all well and good, but in a project where you don’t control the person’s time, a more effective strategy is working jointly on establishing schedules and building in generous pads that allow for occasional diversion of resources to the competing deadlines. Your problem isn’t this employee. It’s getting in lock step with the bigger picture of how much access to this resource you truly have (not just on paper) and setting expectations (both in time and with your client) accordingly.

      1. Op here..you would be correct if the employee had not been told by their manager that my project and customer is the top priority. So I am in lockstep with their manager and the employee is not heeding clear direction. The problem is the employee. Good points though!

         1. The problem isn’t the employee though—it’s the employee’s boss who is also in your update meetings and is not doing anything about it. It’s a signal to the employee that the status quo for whatever reason—employee’s health, competing projects you may not be privy to or outright disregard for the project—is acceptable. If it mattered to the boss, then you would likely be seeing a change in the employee’s behavior or other resources put on this, unless discipline is already happening or something else is likely to shift and it’s just a matter of time until you see these things. I’d stop trying to micromanage and work on figuring it out with the boss instead. That may not mean getting what you want, but at least you might get insight into what’s going on and when (or if) you can plan to resume a normal project schedule.

   3. So, this might sound counterintuitive and I don’t know if you actually have the ability to do this in your situation, but I had a colleague who constantly asked questions. So many questions, all the time, big and small, and like, why are you completely incompetent, dude? He interrupted my work, made it to where I couldn’t get anything from him without hand-holding him through the whole assignment, just useless without a babysitter. A friend correctly pointed out that I was enabling his behavior by answering the questions and helping him. I should just let him struggle, and eventually, fail. I stopped answering any questions. “What are you eating for lunch?” “What time is it?” “Have you heard from Customer lately?” All answered with, “I don’t know” or “I can’t help you”, rinse and repeat. Two weeks later, dude was fired because management realized he was incompetent. Now that you’ve looped in leadership, see if you can go to someone else or do the work yourself until this person suffers the consequences for their (in)actions. I normally prefer to help and train and be understanding and offer to re-shuffle, but good grief. At some point, your colleague needs to be an adult and get their work in order. If there’s something personal going on that’s preventing them from delivering, their manager should help them make other arrangements. But this over-management to try to get things done isn’t working.

      1. OP here…thank you for this. No more babysitting – you’re exactly right. Over managing is not working. Employee is on their own.

7. I am so over sausage-casing jeans – at any price point.

   1. Same. If you find some that aren’t spray painted on lmk.

      1. I bought some Lucky jeans from Macy’s recently. They are a straight leg, not skinny, style. They are also around 95-98% cotton, which cuts down on the sausage casings factor a lot, having a higher cotton content.

         They were on sale for about $50, if I recall.

      2. There are TONS out there. The latest trends are definitely towards looser fitting jeans. Not hard to find.

8. Has anyone been to a mindfulness or meditation retreat that you’d recommend? Thank you!

9. This doesn’t look like an intentional twist on the seams– it looks like pants that are too tight, got twisted and stuck that way. Further emphasized by the slit being in the front of the model’s leg on one side and more on the side of her other leg. Not criticizing Kat– the product description says “shimmery, twisted seams.” But it looks very odd to me.

   1. Yeah, usually when the seam twists around to the front like that it means the denim wasn’t cut on the grain and the pants are poorly made. If I saw these in person, I would assume they were purchased for $9.99 at Rue21, not $200+ at Nordstrom.

10. If I wanted to wear these jeans on a date but with flats instead, what should I try?

    1. You could, but you should be taller then I am. I often wear skinny jeans, but b/c I am only 5″6″, when I wear flats, I look a little short and dumpy b/c of my tuchus. So I wear 4″ heels and then appear 5″10″ and all of a sudden, men are not focusing on my tuchus as much, and more on my eyes and boobies, which are closer to their eye level. When this happens, they are more attracted to me and I have a better shot at succeeding at whatever I am trying to do. In court, the judge sees my eyes and boobies and he is not focusing elsewhere where I prefer they not look.

11. Is anyone here in advertising or marketing and can speak to the types of cover letters that are typically used in this industry? I’m in law, so I’m used to seeing short, businesslike cover letters that are really just a vehicle for enclosing the person’s resume, plus maybe addressing something that would otherwise be a turnoff (like explaining why you’re applying to my firm in this office when you have no connection to my city). I’m helping review a friend’s cover letter and she tells me that in advertising and marketing, you’re expected to have a more creative cover letter. One that really shows that you know the business and would be a good fit there. Something that captures the attention and isn’t cookie cutter. Does that sound right? I’m worried she’s finding advice to this effect online and might be shooting herself in the foot with a cover letter that’s going to turn off the recruiter or hiring manager. Thanks!

    1. It definitely depends on the industry, but it is standard to say more than “please find resume enclosed”. Particularly for agencies, a quippy tagline or link to your portfolio should be included. You can also get a sense for how creative the cover letter should be by looking at the job req. Does it say something like, “tell me what inspires you about this role/company”? “We want to see your creativity… so wow us with a story of the project you’re most proud of”? It also depends on what they have on their resume. For example, my resume shows a lot of metrics, like “increased traffic by X%” or “used Tool to test and edit landing pages to increase average click-through rate by Y%”, so the cover letter would talk more generally about why I’m interested in this specific company/role/skillset within my discipline. This is especially true for the creative roles under the marketing umbrella (vs. say, an analyst role that might sit in the marketing org but requires a data science or math-focused background).

       In long, most advertising and marketing hiring managers are looking for more than a cursory sentence or two about the resume. Many of these positions require creative writing abilities, presentation skills, and storytelling, so they want to see that you can do that in the first long-form piece of content they receive from a candidate.

    2. FWIW, I’m a director at a media company and have also held leadership positions in custom publishing-related areas at other organizations. In the dozen or so hires I’ve participated in for marketing, content marketing and traditional editorial roles, the format has been the traditional one you describe. Even when hiring graphic designers, I’ve seen pretty standard cover letters and the real “creative splash ‘ is going to their site where their portfolio resides. In fairness, all vetting has always been done through HR first. It’s possible that I didn’t see some of the more unusual cover letters and, again, my experience pool is fairly limited.

    3. Marketing here. My cover letters are more than just “please see attached resume” but aren’t what I would call “creative.” It’s usually just a paragraph about why I’m a good fit for the job and why I want it. In marketing most people have portfolios, so that’s where you show your creativity.

    4. I think standing out in a good way is well, good. I’m pretty judgey about cover letters – I’m in law but I still like them to tell me a story (basically an elevator pitch of why they’re right for my role) and not just enclose a resume. A well done cover letter absolutely stands out. The key is to focus on what the person brings to the job, show some passion for the organization or role, not too long, but a page is fine. The TL/DR – a cover letter is a key part of your personal marketing that can tell a much better story than your resume.

    5. Marketing / brand management career, and really, they’re just cover letters. Written in a more engaging fashion than typical cover letters, but there’s no real need to be “creative” per se.

12. Just a silly rant. After being at my firm for almost 10 years, they have decided to redo our billing system and we now have to enter 8 hours of time daily. It doesn’t all have to be billable nor does it need to be crazy detailed. Apparently it is fine to bill an hour to “various admin tasks.” It’s also totally fine to bill an hour to “left early” to our “unlimited PTO” billing code. The reason I’m ranting is because I’m a super honest person when it comes to my hours and so I’m stressing out about billing to admin time I spend here or on FB or eating lunch. Everyone else is just doing their regular time entry and then subtracting that from 8 and putting the rest in as admin time, unless they are actually out for personal time. I just hate this level of micromanagement. Is my lunch “admin time?” Ugh.

    1. That sounds horrible. And I think there should be a billing code for lunch.

    2. My firm always required us to account for 8 hours a day in the system. Instead of thinking of admin time as office administrative time, try thinking of it is the remaining time in the office. You know your firm, but at my it was looked down on to have lots of pto hours even if your billable were high. I only billed to pto if I actually took a vacation day

       1. +1, same. If you didn’t bill 8 hours they deducted PTO for the balance. Everyone just entered billable hours X and then 8-X as admin time. It’s really not that big a deal and you’re overthinking it.

       2. +2 and, at least at my firm, they specifically told us the general code covered short breaks. It was simply a way of recording that we were clocked in that day and not on some kind of leave (vacation, sick, personal, etc). Your firm cares how much you bill to clients and how efficiently you get your client work done. They don’t care if your one hour of “admin time” includes lunch and Corpor*tte.

    3. Agree. Think of “admin time” as not just time doing specific tasks, but time that you are available in the office. I wouldn’t put anything down to PTO unless actually using it for vacation, illness, etc.

    4. I mean literally the only problem here is you being contrary and refusing to do as you are told.

    5. I’m not in law, but in public accounting, and I’ve always been required to account for at least 8 hours in a day. I bill time to admin nearly every day. It’s just inevitable that you spend an hour or two on small things that aren’t directly client related.

       I’m really confused about why this is a problem.

    6. My firm has same procedure. There’s a time code for “unallocated time” and we are told to use the narrative “time to eight hours.”

    7. From your description it sounds like a configuration issue rather than a change in expectations (unless someone said that). Personally I’d just code admin time for all non-billing time and wouldn’t worry about it.

13. I’ve just noticed an annoying pattern in someone I work with. This person’s job requires sending me stuff to review. Immediately after emailing me the thing that needs to be reviewed, they will also call me simply to say they emailed me. If I don’t answer, they leave a voicemail. In the past, my turnaround hasn’t always been as fast as I’d like, but that’s because of work load. Calling me does not result in faster turnaround. I’m thinking of saying that the calls aren’t necessary, and I review all my emails daily. Before I do, AITA?

    1. Just chill all around

    2. I don’t think you’re the A, but I don’t think telling them not to call is going to accomplish anything. Some people just like to follow up every email with a phone call. Do you reply “got it” or “will do” to the emails? That requires no time and lets them know for sure you’ve received the email. But some people will still call anyway, at least in my experience.

    3. This does sound pretty annoying, but I’ll throw in that it happens with some frequency at my job that I will follow up with my boss via email on something a few days after I send it/a couple days before I need it and receive an “oh, did you send that? I must have missed it” type response. Maybe this person has had similar experiences and is trying to be extra proactive? Agreed that a quick “thanks” or “got it” email might help… though not unless you can get it out before the phone rings!

    4. I appear to be in the minority but this would drive me batty. I probably would have already said something but that very well may be a bad move. So, no advice, just sympathy.

14. I am getting very tired of going to get my roots done every 3 weeks. I have medium dark hair and the grays are coming in strong. The pencils/mascara/Madison Reed type root covers that last till your next wash don’t really work. Does anyone color at home? Advice? Brands?

    1. I color at home every three weeks with L’Oréal preference. Pick a color that’s lighter than what you think you need as it usually ends up darker on your head. I have a lot of grey (over 50%) and my natural color is light brown but I dye it blonde which covers the grey and doesn’t really impact the light brown since I’m not bleaching anything. Good luck!

    2. I have not found an at-home brand that colors my gray as well as pro color does, but there is a “resistant gray” additive you can buy to add to boxed color to punch up the efficacy. I think Sally’s carries it.

    3. I color at home every 3 weeks, Nice n Easy No. 5RB (I’m a brunette with reddish undertones). It’s easy-peasy, but make sure you really check your bathroom for any stray “slings” of color. I tend to color on Friday evening or Sat AM so that there’s not a harsh forehead line by the time I’m headed to work. Also think about tissuing-off your top-of-earlobes and along back part line to catch any weird drips. Last, make sure your tub is well-rinsed after you remove color, so you don’t get any shampoo bottle ring stains or the like. I prefer color that is lotion-based, rather than liquid.

    4. My mom’s colored her hair at home for 30? years. I’ve applied it for her when I’m around for as long as I can remember. Easy peasy. She tries different brands, but it’s always one of the “nice” drug store brands. She’s in her 70s now, so no drugstore formula completely covers her white hair at her temples, but it turns a nice light bronze color.

       Definitely go lighter than you think you need. Apply all over your scalp first and really soak it all in there, then work your way down to the ends. Go easy on your ends – they’re often damaged, which means they absorb more color and can look not awesome if they get too much dark color for too long.

15. Can anyone recommend a brand or site for simple, classic earrings in high-quality metals for sensitive skin?

    Searching “hypoallergenic earrings” gives me a lot of children’s products. I’m looking for something more like a variety of white gold hoops, rather than nickel-free teddy bear studs.

    1. Searching “Nickel free white gold hoops” and “hypoallergenic white gold hoop earrings” in google brought up dozens of hits from mainstream jewelry stores (Zales, Jareds, Macy’s) to smaller boutiques and Etsy.

    2. I recently bought a few pairs from Gldn and have been really happy with them. They have options for gold and gold filled (along with other materials) and the prices are on the less expensive side. The styles are more contemporary, but they do have some pretty classic hoops, too.

       1. This site has exactly the aesthetic I’m looking for, thank you!

16. I’ve recently started yoga and cannot figure out what to do with my bob hairstyle for class. It gets in my face if I leave it down, but it’s too short for a ponytail. The clips I own don’t stay put throughout class. Anyone have tips?

    1. Headband!
       Stretch type or the stiff type or a bandanna twisted & tied. Test to see what works. I use a thin stiff one plus the bandanna twist.

    2. Headband, half-up, or a half-up in two sections. If your hairstyling skills exceed mine, you can French braid the front part of your hair, either in two sections going backwards or in one section across your head.

17. So I was invited to a 40th birthday party for two women. Neither have kids. The invite made it seem clear to me that this was an adult party (it started at 9 PM at a private venue that’s kind of a dive).

    Two people (guests of the birthday woman I didn’t know) showed up with their kids probably about age 3 and 4 at 9:30 PM

    I had gotten a sitter for my kid and was just kind of thrown that there were two kids running, screaming and playing peekaboo. It seemed like they were going to stay so that was awkward. Parents didn’t have them just sit in a corner with a tablet or offer what I considered reasonable supervision.

    Someone rather hastily boxed up the edibles and moved the alcohol out of kid reach as they were grabbing and eating all kinds of stuff. But it was still weird. People were already drunk when the kids showed up. There was a bottle of absinthe out that some people were drinking.

    Anyway I ended up leaving after fifteen minutes with some other people. I don’t drink but I did intend on consuming edibles and didn’t want to do that in front of kids. I also just don’t have a sitter that often and was paying for one so this was a $60 evening out for me.

    Thoughts? Birthday girl has texted me and some of the others that took off to basically ask if it was because of the kids and I said yes.

    1. It was obviously insane of that person to bring her kids to a party at a bar that was way past a normal preschool bedtime. But I also think it was kind of rude of you to bail. It wasn’t your friend’s fault the kids were there, and if I were your friend I would be hurt that you chose to bail on my party after 15 minutes just because you couldn’t consume edibles. I’d feel differently if it was a random night out for no reason, but if it’s someone’s birthday you should stick around and celebrate the birthday person, even if you don’t like the vibe of the party or the other guests.

       1. +1 also how in the world would a 3 or 4 year old know you were consuming edibles?

    2. I’d assume 9PM is intentionally after the conventional children’s bedtime for many a household. I would have left just as you did because I would not feel comfortable having proper conversations with free range kids running around. Also, I have a health concern and avoid being around small children as they are prone to carry all kinds of germs

       1. Omg what? You can’t have a conversation of a child is present? Ridiculous. Ignore the kids, wash your hands, move on.

          1. Found the person who brings her kids to adult parties and then gets mad that people don’t find her little darlings just soooo adorable.

             1. I’m not the person you’re responding to, and I don’t bring my kids to adult parties, but I think the response from Adulting at 9:58 is way over the top. Kids aren’t going to spread germs unless you’re touching them or playing with them closely, and I don’t know what “proper conversations” means, but it’s easy to simply ignore the kids and talk as you normally would. It’s incredibly melodramatic to storm out of a party just because kids are there. Ignore the kids and focus on the friend you came to celebrate and other adults you like.

       2. I have a child and this woman is correct, I don’t even shake hands in winter because I’m probably spreading diseases.

          I chose to have my kid who I love very much and basically it’s unfair to make other people deal with my kid at 9:30 PM.

    3. It’s very possible that the birthday women didn’t ask or expect the kids to show up, so I think it was rude/hurtful of you to just leave their birthday party because you were upset you couldn’t get high/drunk on your night out. These things happen sometimes and you can just be a decent person and roll with it. It’s also possible/probable that if you waited it out a bit, the kids would have left eventually.

    4. I do think 9:57 has a good point. But I also think “it was because of the kids” is too simplistic an answer for your friend. Did you tell her the truth – “I didn’t feel comfortable having adult party time in front of the kids”? At least that makes it sound like you’re not generally a crank about children, or were just waiting for your excuse to leave.

       1. This.

    5. I think it’s incredibly weird you are such a child you stormed off in a huff 15 minutes into a birthday party because you couldn’t get high. Like so weird I assume this is made up.

    6. I am a mom. This kind of thing drives me c-r-a-z-y, like absolutely bonkers. I get it’s hard to find a good sitter. I get that sitters are expensive. It’s still not okay to bring your kids to an adult party at 9:30 p.m. And then not to keep control of them just makes the whole thing worse.

       I am sorry for your friend. It sucks that her friend with the kids was so clueless and insensitive. I also would have left the party (and I don’t consume edibles or any other drugs ever, I just hate being at adult parties where people bring kids because I have to work really hard not to say something to the parents). There’s nothing you can do about it now, but someone (not the birthday girl) needs to get back to the clueless person who brought the kids and explain that they shouldn’t do that again, ever.

       1. Yeah, I really have a tough time understanding what happened. If the sitter cancels, you don’t go. I have a 4 year old and two older ones and NOBODY goes to bed after 9pm! Much less to a party! I suppose if it were a family party or something, I *might* bring them, with an iPad, and the caveat that they are going to go to bed/ sleep on the couch–and even that sounds awful.

          As the birthday party host, she either had advanced notice of the kids, in which case I’d have said “sorry, the party is adults only, see you next time” or the party host was blindsided by the presence of the kids, in which case AT THE DOOR you say “oh wow, this is an adults only thing. I have open containers everywhere and would be super uncomfortable. why don’t you have a quick piece of cake and we can catch up another time?”

          However–I think it was super weird for a whole group of people to pack up and leave without saying anything. I straight up would have found the birthday girl and told her the kids were making me uncomfortable, have a happy birthday but I am going to call it a night.

          1. Yeah. It wasn’t great of us. Honestly I don’t drink. I don’t take drugs in front of my kid. I would have felt super weird getting high in front of anyone’s kids. I would have been super mad if someone got high in front of my kid (though I don’t bring my kid to parties).

             Basically, I totally get people without children have lives. However every night I go out costs me $60 in childcare plus I cover skip the dishes for my sitter if she wants food. I might go out twice a month.

             I don’t want to go to a party and watch other people’s kids go nuts. I’d rather leave and go get a coffee somewhere quiet or see a movie. I mean, one of the parents obviously should stay home with the kids if there is no sitter. It’s not rocket science.

18. Has anyone done a major career transformation in your late 30? Really interested in hearing from anyone who has done a complete ‘180’ with college etc. Was it worth it? Any regrets?

    I’m currently contemplating going back to take the MCAT with the aim of getting into medical school at….38. I keep oscillating between thinking I’m crazy to even thinking about it to thinking I don’t want to regret never trying later, you only live once etc…. Few facts – married, mortgaged, mother to a toddler, have a good job with good pay and seniority after many years of working to get to the ‘top of the pile.’

    1. I don’t think you’re crazy to change careers at this age. I do think you’re crazy to go to medical school at almost 40 – between zero earnings during four years in school, the massive student loans and the low earning years for up to a decade after school, you’ll be setting yourself WAY back financially at an age when you should enjoying the fruits of hard work in your 20s and 30s and throwing lots of money at retirement. It’s one thing to lean out or change careers to something that doesn’t pay as well – if your family can make the finances of a lower salary work, that’s fine. It’s another thing completely to quit your job for the privilege of paying to go to school for years, only to end up not earning much (any?) more than you did to begin with. I don’t understand that at all. If you have a multi-million trust fund, disregard this advice. But I don’t see the math on this making sense for most people who need to work and save for their own retirement.

       1. Agree. Why do you want to go to medical school? Is there a career path you could take to give you the same benefits without the same time and cost detriments? If you want to help people in a medical setting there are so many routes you could take that don’t involve 8 yrs of school and residency + hundreds of thousands of debt. Physician’s Assistant, Nurse Practicioner, Physical Therapist, Counselor, Doula – do you really have to throw away all your hard work, the rest of your kid’s childhood (because Mom will be busy slaving away trying to start an all consuming career for 8 yrs), and money? I don’t think you do. You can still make six figures in any of the professions listed above and still care for people in a medical setting.

       2. On balance, I have a friend that went to med school at 38. He was finally done with residency etc. at 45. He went in eyes wide open and did it for the love of medicine/people/research and was fine with the downstream financial ramifications.

          FWIW I had planned my entire college experience around going to med school. Took the MCATs. Applied to med school and got into a few. Then didn’t go because it turns out I really actually don’t like dealing with patients. I now work building technology for use by healthcare providers and could not be happier. I talk to “users” all the time- docs, billers, front desk staff– and man, I dodged a bullet.

       3. +1

    2. Back in College I had a classmate who was starting over, in his mid 40s. He had been in health insurance or some related field as I recall, and had decided to get a degree in mechanical engineering and start an entirely new career. From what I remember of what he shared with me he had quit his job, and was using his 401(k ) to support his wife and child, finance school and carry them all through the transition period. Once graduated he planned to make up the gap and hole he had dug with his larger engineering salary. He was hired promptly after graduation and I hope his plan worked. He did seem to love his new opportunity.
       I know of some peers, who, in their 30s, once they got an MBA abandoned an engineering career and went to work on the business or finance side of the company or took similar jobs at new places in different industries. Of those people, none of them had children at the time.
       Given that you want to switch from one seemingly demanding job and plunge into a VERY demanding educational regime in order to make this switch, and given that it sounds like you have a full personal life, I think it may be wise to ask yourself Why? Why do you need to quit one big job and tackle a very long and arduous educational mountain to switch your career? Is this a type AA personality driving you or is a true inner passion? Is this a need to ‘prove’ yourself? Haven’t you already done that? Are there other parts of your life (career or personal) you could change that wouldn’t required hours of studying, high tuition fees and all the other hurdles of getting through medical school?

    3. Insane. You won’t be a real fully fledged doctor until you’re 50. You won’t pay off your loans before you retire. This is a fantasy.

       1. Also: are there medical schools within commuting distance of your home, or are you going to uproot your family for 4 years of med school halfway across the country, then uproot them again for residency, and a third time for your actual job?

          Can you work 80 hours a week? Do you care if you do not spend time with your child until high school?

    4. Do you want to be a doctor or do you want to work in healthcare? If it’s the latter, have you looked at other degree options which would be done faster and probaly cost less. Nurse practitioner, physician assistant, CRNA, anesthesia assistant, therapist, etc?

    5. I haven’t done this, and the other responders have not said anything I don’t necessarily disagree with.

       But I will say, I’m 40 and sometimes I think about how silly it is that we as society often act like the path we are on is it, and it is too late to pivot, or it would at the very least be weird to pivot. Meanwhile, we actually have more working years ahead of us than behind us. Why not reassess and potentially blow it up? How were we supposed to know at 18/22 what we wanted to do? Life IS short!

       This obviously ignores the finances aspect, which in normal life I am usually overanalytical about and I probably talk a big game here that I wouldn’t actually do. Medical school and the financial impact of everything involved there is obviously an extreme of this, so maybe that does veer into not making sense. Then again, I feel like you could be a doctor until whenever you decide to retire, vs for me personally I do worry quite a bit about getting laid off in my 50s or 60s and not being able to find anywhere near an equivalent to my job after. Not sure how much that is reality vs anxiety though.

       1. +1 to all of this

    6. Crazy. At least about medicine.

       Doctor here.

       Why medicine? Have you been shadowing doctors already, understand the curriculum/training path well and what kind of doctor you want to be, and can handle the debt and income loss? It is possible that the years of taking pre-med classes and then the first two years of medical school will give you a bit of flexibility towards seeing your kids, if you don’t care about studying and doing that well in school, but then the next 5-8 years will be brutal when you are doing hospital rotations/residency. And unless you are a superstar that will get into competitive high paying medical specialities with a lifestyle for having a family (eg. radiology/derm/ophtho) you will surprised how little $$ you will be making compared with your current job and how long it will take to pay off your loans and somehow save for retirement and ?help your kids with school.

       I think medicine is an amazing career and is deeply satisfying. It is also crazy stressful, depressing, frustrating and changing every day. It is becoming female dominated and salaries are dropping (isn’t that funny how that happens). We will move towards a universal healthcare system in steps over the next years, and it will be very very painful for your generation of trainees stuck with $300k in loans and salaries dropping by half and huge pressure to see more patients in less time to afford being paid Medicare reimbursement rates. We can want to have a system like Europe for healthcare, but until we start paying for college/medical school like they do in Europe, it is not sustainable for people who want to go into medicine. Who can afford delaying their life for more than a decade, having many hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and have a middle class salary? Not women who want to have children and need to pay for child care. And it will be us women who suffer.

       If you are very good at memorizing detailed material, don’t need much sleep, have financial security and can go to a feer med school…. then I would say go for it. If you aren’t, I’d say consider a nurse practitioner 2 year training program with no residency requirements and call it a day.

       1. Oops… Not feer med school….. Free med school!!

    7. We need more information to advise you on this subject. Based solely on your age and marital status, I’d say go for it. Throw a toddler into the mix, and I lean towards you’re crazy, but need more facts. Do you want more kids? How is your husband’s job security/earnings? How are you savings and retirement? How would you fund medical school? Do you have a trust fund and/or parental assistance and/or a sizable inheritance coming your way?

       If you dont have considerable savings, including retirement, your husband’s earnings are less than stellar and you want more kids, I’d say, find another dream.
       If you have great savings, and a trust fund, and your husband has a high-paying, flexible job with high job security, and you are both definitely one and done on the baby front, I’d be inclined to say go for it.
       Obviously, these are two extremes, and you probably fall somewhere in the middle, so, again, need more facts to advise.

    8. I know someone who went to med school in her mid-30s. Many of physicians she knows suggested she look into Physician Assistant programs. They would have had he practicing medicine (albeit without the MD authority) without the tremendous investment of time and money that it takes to become a doctor. Is your goal to work with patients in medicine? There are a lot of ways to do that without medical school.

    9. I think you need to talk to some people who are living the reality about what med school and residency is like. My aunt changed careers and went to med school “late,” i.e. in her late 20s/early 30s. Med school was one thing; residency nearly killed her. The hours are beyond brutal and for people who are used to an office job it is a big, big adjustment. She also went from making a nice amount of money to making less than half of what she used to, working about triple the number of hours, and on top of that ended up with $250k in med school loans to pay off. She’s fine now and working in a field she really likes (with normal hours) but doctor training is a gauntlet and it is very, very important to understand what you’re getting yourself into. With a toddler in the picture, you’re going to have to be willing to miss a lot of important moments in your kid’s life to get through school, residency and the first years of your medical career and be successful. Your partner is also going to have to be 100% all-in on this. Are they up for paying the bills by themselves for a few years while you accumulate six-figure debt and work 24-hour rotations, leaving them to solo parent for days at a time? At a time, when, as Anon at 9:54 said, you should be reaping fruits of earlier labor and putting aside money for retirement and your kid’s education? This is where it’s very important to distinguish between the reality of training to be a doctor and the fantasy of what being a doctor will be like. The bridge between the two things is 5-7 years of some really difficult moments and choices. Only you can decide whether that’s “worth it” for you, but you also have a spouse and a child who will be significantly affected by this decision and IMO, the spouse gets a vote and the kid needs to get some consideration in this. Once you have a family, you cannot orient your existence around you living your best life at your family’s expense.

       The other thing I’m going to bring up is something someone mentioned here in a discussion not too long ago: I think most office workers have an overglamorized view of what being a doctor is like. You will be dealing with other people’s (naked, possibly decrepit, possibly stinky, possibly gross) bodies all day long. There will be bodily fluids to clean off yourself. You will get sick a lot as you pick up minor illnesses from patients. The doctors I know love what they do but they are blunt that it is not like being one of the good-looking doctors running around on Grey’s Anatomy. I would see if you can do a job shadow or something to really experience this for yourself.

       If you’re married, have a mortgage, have a kid, and are in your late 30s, let me gently introduce the idea that you are having a midlife crisis. Or, possibly that you are seeking some meaning in your life that is lacking. There are lots of ways to deal with this without upending your life like you’re contemplating. Can you volunteer somewhere helping people with health or life crises? Can you get more involved in advocacy for community health resources? That would maybe help scratch the itch. You could also look at careers that would utilize your skills in the health field, where you maybe could feel like you’re making more of a difference.

    10. You only live once. Honest. To quote
        May Sarton – “what will you do with your one wild and precious life? “
        For now, go have a non committal sit down at a school, get more substantive details, then make a decision. It may just be that you end up wanting a parallel medical role. It may be a doctor role.
        Allow yourself to ….. Go. Investigate. Our longing is our calling.
        Keep us posted!

        1. Great quote! It’s by Mary Oliver, not May Sarton; her poem “The Summer Day.”
           see www(dot)loc(dot)gov(slash)poetry(slash)180(slash)133.html

           1. oops! glad you caught that

    11. I’d do it if: your marriage is strong, you can afford your life more or less on one income, you have some money in the bank so you aren’t going into major debt to make the change, medicine is your true calling/passion and you’ve shown an aptitude for it, and you’re 100% knowledgeable about what the schedule of your daily life looks like. 40 is still pretty young – I think we’re too fast to write life off then, and you can work for a lot longer than to 60 as a doctor. In your shoes, I might consider nurse practitioner programs or something medicine adjacent that pays well and is less time to get started.

    12. recommend that you talk to people who have done this and review programs for older students because you will have more difficulty getting accepted into med school and residency at your age. you may be able to work into your 60s and beyond but physically you will be in your early 50s after residency compared to doctors in their 30s, so psychiatry or GP may be areas you can specialize in but cardiac surgery is highly unlikely. however, I knje people who did this and are really happy with their second stage of life, so if you know all the difficulties and still want to do it, I think you should.

    13. You typically have to move at least twice to be a doctor (post-medical school for residency and then again for your permanent job), and that’s assuming you’re going to medical school in your current city – otherwise it’s three moves. Is your spouse on board with all these moves for your family? It would be a non-starter for me for my husband to go to medical school, simply because I’ve had some difficulty getting established in my own career and wouldn’t sign up for this constant moving around and being the trailing spouse, when he has a perfectly good job currently and could work in healthcare if he wanted without attending medical school.

    14. A relative of mine did something similar – he may have been a little younger (~5 years) than you, but not that much. He was married and a homeowner with 2 small kids (~4, 2 yo?) when he decided to go back to med school. They moved three times: 1) from the east coast to the west coast, for him to attend a top medical school 2) to the midwest for residency 3) to the east coast for his ultimate job. His wife worked and supported the family through the training, and I don’t know how they paid for school. He entered a lucrative speciality and is now (by appearances) extremely well off and retiring in his late 60’s, but he was also certainly on call and working during many family holidays even post-residency.

        So it can be done, with a family, and it can pay off, but I am certain that there were many trade-offs along the way. I don’t know his reasons for making the career switch (nor yours).

    15. Anon here, thank you all for your replies! I don’t have close friends or acquaintances who have done this apart from one friend who qualified as a psychologist in her 40s so your comments are great. Few facts for those who asked – husband is a an engineer and pretty senior so has good job stability, we currently spend about 60% of what we earn to fund our lifestyle – this could be reduced if I was studying by eliminating car leases etc. We are pretty comfortable financially and have stocked away approx $500k towards retirement, obviously 30s and 40S are a crucial time for growing this nest egg. I don’t have a large trust fund though my mother will probably leave my brother and I a decent inheritance. She’s in her early 60s and in good health so not counting on anything! Part of the reason I never pursued medicine to start with is due to poor financial decisions my father made and a desire to get out and earn right after my bachelors. This is a partial excuse as I also did fairly well in my career and my salary growth never seemed to justify going backward. What do they call that…the golden handcuffs.I have completed the pre-named components so that’s not an issue but passing the MCAT with a high enough score to get into a competitive local school is. Total income loss for me alone for 4 years of school is approx is $1.4 mil and that’s excluding tuition. I have tried to scratch this itch by completing other courses – have done an MBA, but I still keep turning to this. I’m realistic that lots of doors will be closed to me at this age and stage (competitive surgery) but I would be satisfied with the alternative options. I know this is ultimately a personal decision and everyone is different but it’s good to hear the feedback from people who are not vested in one option or another. My husband would prefer I stick with my current path but is supportive of whatever I choose to do. I would ideally like one more kid and we are fortunate to have my husbands mother help us out with childcare a few days a week.

        1. Go and research all possible options surrounding this. You may end up doing the essence of medicine. Just a thought~As you mentioned being up the heap professionally ~ is is doable to scale 1/2 time in current field & 1/2 in prospective one, allowing your foot in the current door whilst exploring your hearts desire.

        2. You say hubby’s career is stable and you guys essentially can live on his salary- but that doesn’t account for the multiple moves that will be required- even if you get into a local school you will almost definitely have to move for your residency. how are you going to do that?

        3. Red flag for me:
           “My husband would prefer I stick with my current path but is supportive of whatever I choose to do.”
           I work with engineers. They are generally very pragmatic but also kind of conflict averse until the chips are down. Don’t be surprised if the attitude changes drastically to “we are not doing this” if you get into med school and tell him it’s time for you to quit your job and for the family to move so you can go to med school. Things that are okay in the abstract can become very not okay once they actually happen.

        4. I’ll be blunt: this is a sh*tty thing to do to your husband. I’m a trailing spouse (husband is in a different industry, not medicine) and it sucks. I’ve suffered career setbacks numerous times, and now work far below my earning potential and intellectual ability. It sounds like your husband is in a more portable industry than I am, but moving around constantly is a huge ask of your partner, and it will be really hard for his career to not suffer in this circumstance. I knew going into my marriage that I would have to be a trailing spouse because of the nature of my husband’s chosen career, which has been his dream since he was in elementary school, and it was obviously a choice I made when I agreed to marry him. I would be livid if he sprung this on me in our late 30s once we had kids and both had stable, well-paying jobs. Unless your husband is actually enthusiastic about this, which it sounds like he’s very much not, I think it’s hugely unfair. If the genders were reversed, and a woman posted here about her husband wanting to go to med school at 38 and making her move around and leave her successful career to do so, people would rip him to shreds.
           If you feel an unstoppable call to work in healthcare, there are ways to do that without uprooting your family and forcing your husband’s career onto the backburner for a decade or more.

    16. The grass is always greener on the other side, isn’t it?

        Doctor here. I’m around your age. This sounds crazy to me unless you already have a ton of clinical experience – I’m talking hundreds of hours of actual clinical care/shadowing – and know that you couldn’t possibly be happy doing anything else. Medical school is tough in terms of call/overnight hours and having no control of your schedule for the clinical years – and residency is much worse. I can’t handle sleep-deprived nights now the way I could 10 years ago in residency (like, 0 sleep. And you need to fully function for 6+ hours the next day. Every 3-4 nights. For years).

        If you have had substantial, actual exposure to the medical field and know there is nothing else that could possibly satisfy you, there are shorter ways to be a clinician – PA training is shorter and allows you to be quite independent, or you could do an advanced nursing degree or midwife training.
        If your desire to go to medical school stems from the (worthy) desire to “help people”- that’s admirable, but there are other ways to do that that don’t involve massive loans and the sacrifice of all your free time for 5-7+ years (depending on residency).

        I was on the older side for my medical school class because I took 3 years after college. Most days I am very happy with the path I took and glad I did it, but starting medical school at age 38 and starting intern year at age 42? I wouldn’t do it!!

        Again, if you have already had substantial, real clinical exposure to know what day-to-day life is actually like for a doctor, that may outweigh everything else. But if not, do a lot of shadowing first (medical schools would look for it too, to see that you know what you’re getting into) to find out if it is really your one true passion.

19. Has anyone found any reusable tissues? Just got some hankies from Target and they’re super scratchy.

    1. If they’re cotton, wash them a few times in hot water, and they’ll soften up.

    2. Perhaps get to a thrift shop and buy antiques (often brand new) pretty & embroidered.
       Old ladies used to buy and hoard them.
       Or be old school ~ super soft bandannas.

    3. I’m sorry but reusable tissues are disgusting. There are so many other ways to be kind to the environment that are less gross and have a bigger impact on the planet.

       1. This, although I would say that “reusable toilet cloths” (yes, this is a thing) is more disgusting.
          My grandfather carried a handkerchief till the day he died and I was so grossed out by it. I think Seventh Generation sells tissues and toilet paper that is made out of predominantly recycled paper and that is a better option than carrying around a piece of cloth filled with snot in your pocket or bag.

       2. Shrug.

          Fwiw I work from home, we do laundry often, and figured if I could use 6 less tissues a week it wouldn’t be horribly gross.

          1. I have cut up an old soft t-shirt into squares big enough that I can fold and have a clean side throughout the day. Then, as you would do, I toss them in the hamper when I get home.

          2. Well, then I hope you live alone, and no one has to see you reusing it. You will forget that others find it kinda gross, and start using it outside the home….

             It reminds me of my aunt/uncle who clean their teeth with toothpicks at the dinner table. With guests. Present.

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