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What are reasonable boundaries when you're highly paid? How do you make work/life boundaries that you and others in your life respect?
Readers had a few great threadjacks on just this topic — one on reasonable boundaries when you're in Big Law, and another one on reasonable boundaries when you're charging $$$$/hr.
What Reasonable Boundaries Look Like if You're Highly Paid
Although obviously there could be multiple fields where you're charging 4+ figures an hour, this is most notable in the legal world, where these days even associates could be billed at $1,000 or more per hour. So, a number of readers who are in-house counsels responded in that thread. One noted:
I think as the client you can expect a near immediate response except in the middle of the night, but I wouldn’t necessarily expect the partner himself to be doing the substantive work if he’s on vacation or it’s a major holiday.
Another in-house counsel noted:
If I’m working into the evenings on a deal and am paying expensive outside counsel, I expect them to be there with me (metaphorically).
I do not expect that if I send a random late-night email when I’m digging out of my inbox, that I get an immediate reply!
And a third in-house counsel noted:
My expectation as in-house counsel for outside counsel is that you will respond to me within one business day acknowledging that you got my request and letting me know by when you can complete the work. So, reasonable boundaries would be whatever allows that responsiveness.
{related: when is a lower salary worth it?}
Reasonable Boundaries in Big Law In General
The first threadjack was prompted by an Ask a Manager column about work-life balance (the AAM letter writer resented Gen Z colleagues who were trying to make better boundaries), and readers were guessing the letter writer worked in Big Law.
In general, people thought that regular work/life boundaries don't really apply to Big Law; one commenter noted: “Yeah, you can draw and have to draw boundaries regardless of where you work, but in Big Law those boundaries are ‘I won’t answer 3 am emails immediately' not ‘I only work 40 hours/week.'”
We've talked about this a lot about work-life balance over the years — in our discussion on answering work emails at home, one reader shared a story of a senior associate getting chewed out for not answering a work email at 9 p.m. His reason? His daughter was watching a movie on his phone and didn't hand it over when the email came in. This was actually a cause for a big debate among readers, at least back in 2016. (For my $.02, I find that a little surprising — phones exist if there's something urgent, yes?)
(Actually, that entire discussion is really fascinating — in 2016 they recognized very little wiggle room to not answer emails immediately “except at insane hours of the night.” Those of you in BigLaw, do you agree in 2023?)
Back when I was fresh from BigLaw, my own advice on keeping work/life boundaries mostly boiled down to stuff I could do myself, like changing into jeans when I got home to feel like I could be a more relaxed person than I was at the office… in other words, protecting my mental health against the “always on” mentality of BigLaw. I remember thinking I was being so rebellious to not get notifications from my work email from 12 a.m. to 6 a.m., but that was mostly because the firm's spam filter regularly sent out notifications at 4 a.m., which would wake me up in my little studio apartment.
Readers, what are your thoughts? What are reasonable boundaries if you're highly paid in this day and age — whether your time is being charged at $1,000 an hour, or you're working in an intense industry?
(This post is admittedly focused on BigLaw, but readers noted that healthcare and intelligence/security are another two industries with major ramifications if one tries to enforce boundaries…)
Stock photo via 123rf.com / BeritKessler.
Anon
I think this varies so much based on industry and job. This is focused on Big Law, which is notorious for paying well and demanding insane hours, but that’s not true of every high-paying job. I know a lot of people in tech who work essentially 9-6 and make in the $300-500k range. I suspect some are above $500k.
Anon
Curious about this as well! I work 9-5 in tech and make ~$300-$400K/year (variability based on RSUs). There are a few times a year where I have to work late or more than 45 hrs/week. As a former MBB consultant, I wouldn’t trade this for anything. I’m a Director and I notice anyone Sr. Director or above seems to work much harder or be more subject to customer/executive demands.
Anon
I clearly went into the wrong field. I didn’t know people in tech made that much, especially if they are only putting in 40 hours a week
Anon
It definitely depends on where you work and how much education you have. A lot of the people I know have PhDs and they’re all in the Bay Area. I assume tech companies don’t pay anywhere near as much in a place like Raleigh. And pretty much everyone I know in the Bay Area is house poor. They have high net worths and they’ll have lots of cash in retirement when they sell the house but right now they have no money for fun stuff like travel (even on a ridiculously high income) because it’s all in the house.
Anon
I was a biglaw partner and am now a senior in house lawyer. The people who work for me work a 9-6 schedule, clock off on vacations, and don’t work weekends. There are rare exceptions (a data breach impacting our business, a critical system failure), but that’s the rule. It’s different for me, less because I make more money and more bc I’m a direct report to the GC. If I’m needed after hours or on the weekend, they call, and I answer, unless I am away from my phone (church, exercising, etc). If they call me something is really wrong.
anon
I make $200k base plus 20% target bonus ($260k last year) as in-house counsel and I do not work more than 45 hrs a week unless it’s a travel week (and those extra hours are travel hours). I set this boundary silently years ago (now it’s overt because I complete a time sheet) and it hasn’t harmed me. I get excellent reviews and I keep getting promoted.
Anon
My husband makes $200-250k and rarely works a full 40 hours (university prof) but he’s kind of a unicorn. Most academics aren’t paid that well.
Anon
MBA, med, or law prof?
Anon
Nope, a STEM field at a prestigious university though.
Anonymous
This is a unicorn in so many ways. Most faculty make less than half this and work closer to at least 50 hours a week.
anonshmanon
I was thinking the same thing!
Anon
I wouldn’t say most faculty make less than half this. There’s definitely variability but starting salaries for new assistant profs in my science field are currently around $100k and go up from there for associate and full professors, and that’s a nine month salary that you can increase by 30% with summer teaching or research support. I know many in academia who make earn high 100s or low 200s, even if you exclude the law/med/business schools and administrative positions like deans. I’m in my 40s though, so most people I know are full professors. I know humanities pays less than STEM. And of course adjuncts who aren’t on the tenure track are paid much less.
Anon
We are in a LCOL area. My tenured prof husband makes less than $60k in the social sciences.
Underpaid professor
Yup. I work at an R1 university in a HCOL area, and the standard (was just recently studied on a national level) for Humanities Associate Professors is around $100k. Not enough to buy a house in this area.
anon
I’ve made $600k-$950k the last four years as an MD in Big Finance, 100% commission. I’m fundamentally in client services and I don’t have great boundaries. It comes with the territory. If I don’t respond then the client risks going to a competitor. I have more of an ability to “shut off” today than I did as a VP or associate, supporting MDs, given I have people who work for me. As an associate, I was easily working 60-70 hours consistently. As an MD, I’m probably in the 40-60 range, entirely depending on the deal flow and demands. But “shut off” means I’m skimming email and watching for time-sensitive/fire-drill type stuff when on vacation, at night or on weekends. It comes with the territory. I love what I do. I love what I earn and someday both may flame out. I don’t know how many true hours I work per week. The market sucks right now so it’s fewer and I’ll also make a lot less this year (still a good income by any measure) .
My take is we get paid well to be available, deliver good work and quickly. Full stop. It’s not for everyone and someday it’s probably not for me any more. For now, it works and I enjoy it.
FWIW, I’m married, one 5 year old kid and late first trimester pregnant (which is a whole other can of worms…never been pregnant at the MD level), uber male dominated field.
MD PhD
Interesting. I am an MD but have left medicine. Do you mind sharing the one-liner about what you do, and why/how you transitioned?
Senior Attorney
I suspect OP is a Managing Director.
MD PhD
I guess I am revealing my ignorance of industry, after only having been in medicine/science, but I can’t appreciate what that means, or why/how an MD would be doing it.
Anon
She’s not a doctor. She was using MD as an abbreviation for managing director.
Anon
it took me a minute to figure out she meant managing director not medical doctor.
Anon
Medical doctor didn’t even occur to me!
OP
Gah, sorry. Def not trying to be smug-finance using acronyms but yes, MD = Managing Director in my world. To be clear, Medical Doctors are far, far more impressive and deserve to be highly paid!!
ANON
I’m a biglaw senior (so 415k plus bonus) and i work weekends maybe once a month. i block out time for family dinner every night but do work until 11 -12 most nights.
Anon
When I was eating $500k+ a year I had next to no boundaries. Now I’m earning much less and much happier.
Anon
These high salaries are making me feel very inadequate.
Moose
Yeah…it’s pretty mind-blowing. Hard to imagine, personally.
I have no personal experience in Big Law or as a highly-paid service professional, but it would be an interesting comparison to think of the boundaries the lower-level staff feel they can assert/have within these demanding fields. When you’re beholden to them whims of a boss who can hire/fire you with little consequence, do you feel like you can push back at all? Vs these high-earners who can, in theory, adjust their work lives without as much fear? (I work for my family small business now, so this is entirely hypothetical from my end).
Anon
I can’t speak for all firms, but for my consulting firm where consulting staff work 60-80 hour weeks and make salaries like what are being discussed here, the admins are restricted to 40 hours. It is well known that they do not have email, Teams, or other work access on their phones, and are not expected to be able to do anything outside business hours.
Anon
At my biglaw firm, admins worked 40 hours/week, full stop, and did not have work phones or remote access. Admins also get overtime, so we had to approve them staying late. We had separate after-hours secretarial support that you called if you needed help after your admin went home.
Anonymous
In house law NYC Fortune 50– very upstairs/downstairs and very political work environment. Management works regular people 7-10, gaslights them on promotions, puts into written performance appraisals that these same workers need to focus more on work. Regular people make below 230K base, but may have higher total comp than lower level upstairs people for maybe 250-260K all in.
Upstairs people get paid maternity leave coupled with promotions, paid time off that does not count against vacation hours to spend time with their children, flexibility around children’s school days, spotlights and praise for being someone’s good heteronormative wife.
Important for the high pay high status low hours in house counsel roles:
are you born into a “good” family and/or did you marry well? Important dad? Important husband? Are you also a diminutive white woman who is conventionally attractive? Curtain of blonde hair?
If so, the male dominated leadership wants to interact with you and to have you lead the workers.
Workers have to answer emails and calls at all hours. If you are going in house law, only do it if you are already in the upstairs/good wife/good daughter category. If not, you will work more hours than biglaw for a lot less comp.
Anonymous
I’m sure there are some people out there with really unique circumstances who work very little and get paid a lot, but I think most high-paying jobs come with a certain amount of stress and always being mentally engaged with the job, even if you aren’t working crazy hours. Personally, I love having a low paying job that I never think about outside of the hours of 9-5 M-F and can disengage from fully on frequent vacations. My friends who earn big money are always thinking about their jobs, reading email, never fully checking out on vacation etc. even if they’re not actually sitting a a desk for that many hours. I wouldn’t want that but YMMV.
Anon
Don’t let it make you feel inadequate!! Salaries range significantly even in a single industry. Attorney can make as low as $50K and as high $2M. It really varies. I’d care more about how someone treats people. I’ve had friends who are surgeons and incredibly nice and down to earth and friends in sales who I am no longer friends with, thank goodness!! Also, I had a friend in biglaw making at least $250 only 2 years out of law school and she didn’t last 5 years because it wasn’t worth it to her. It’s not all about money.
BostonANONian
They are wild! BigLaw is a whole different ball game. I’m in a HCOL area (clearly) and am making $100k (+ a few grand in bonus $) as a young family law attorney. I would balk if anyone expected me to be immediately available before 8am or after 10pm, but I do work 9am-6:30/7pm weekdays, and I put in a few hours most weekends (more if I have a big hearing or trial, but I can also get away with no weekend work if I’m not really busy). Easily 50+ hour weeks, which I think is reasonable. I keep an eye out for urgent items (emergencies can and do crop up in this field) outside work hours. I have definitely provided my personal cell number to clients so they can text/call. Personally, this is a little more “on call” than I’d like to be for the amount of income, BUT I also like where I work, like who I work with, like the flexibility I have, and like the opportunities I have here. I don’t have children, but I do think I will be able to set boundaries without too much trouble if I do have kids that I need to prioritize, and that is valuable to me too.
Anon
I’m crying from the public service sector, regularly working 50-60 hours seven days a week and making under $100K, with the expectation of basically 100% availability. I’ve received emails at 10 PM and a follow up at 7 AM the next day about why haven’t I responded yet.
Anon
Unless you’re guarantees student loans forgiveness, I’d get out!! That doesn’t sound worth it. Those hours are insane unless you are literally saving the world.
Sunshine
+10,000. I left BigLaw and the money for public sector where my job is 9-5 and I make $100,000. I would absolutely refuse to work BigLaw hours for public sector money. That’s the worst combination!
Anonymous
General question that’s kind of related: do you think what your parents/partner/good friends earn(ed) constrains what you earn? My father was always around $250k at most, my husband is high 90s, so my salary ($315) feels pretty great… to the point where I’ve stopped striving for more.
Anon
I work as a public defender, recently switched from trial work to appellate work. Trial I made $70k (after 6 years) and only worked 8-430, M-F. Still felt burnt out so now I’m writing appeals. One day is WFH, so basically I’d say I work 4-5 hours a day, 4 days a week. Expect a $10-15k raise as I do death penalty appeals and more work, but still not after 4 or on weekends. Worth it!